ls1 edit vs hp tune

[alexander]

hey guys not sure which way to go i have a vz ss ute m6 i was going to book it 4 an ls1 edit next week but after speaking to a few people at the creek last wed not to sure now they had the hp tune on otherwise standard cars eg. suxgas and they were pulling 13.5 s down the quarter and these were autos would sams performance give me similar results my ute is also stock one more thing when i asked one of the guys re hp tune compared to ls1edit he told me ls1 edit was old school , i got it dynoed on a dynodynamics 195rwkw what gains could i expect with a standard tune with either program i hope i havent started anything just after some valuable info

[vyssls1]

just a tip go and read the above thread on costing and experience, and at the end let you mind work it out for you, me personally i dont run an edit, i run aftermarket ecu, there is a lot on the market, and with 80% on this forum running edits, this could get into a thread of fights.

[Justice R8]

just a tip go and read the above thread on costing and experience, and at the end let you mind work it out for you, me personally i dont run an edit, i run aftermarket ecu, there is a lot on the market, and with 80% on this forum running edits, this could get into a thread of fights.

I dont understand why you would go an aftermarket ECU. The standard PCM can do everything an aftermarket can do and probably more for a N/A stock car. Using another ECU you still need edit or HP tuners etc to alter many other parameters such as trans on an auto etc. An interceptor wont do that. So you pay for an interceptor and then have to pay to edit the things the interceptor doesnt anyway. GM are not stupid. They use a great piece of equipment. Go to the track and have a look at some of the GTP cars that run other ECU's and see how they drive. Do the drivers care? no as they are race cars. The aftermarket ECU's they use are an awsome piece of gear in so much as they can log everything in the car including shock travel etc and overlay laps and data from previous races. Great if it is a race car but why on a stocker, except being able to pull it out when you sell the car and $50 for it.

BTW I have an interceptor on my G/Fs Blown Stroker. Why? 2 bar wasnt available at the time the engine was done and I am too tight to redo it but it had been tuned HP tuners and the interceptor did what we needed.

Alexander

Talk to Sam. He has edit and HP tuners. My old SV8 ran a 12.58 with a Tune, catback (STANDARD MANIFOLDS) and slicks. Planb drove it and that is where a good time comes from. The driving makes the difference. The Sv8 had 301rwhp, my Clubby has 497RWHP and I ran a 12.2 in that. I dont drag race well hence a crap time.

[vyssls1]

i am running an interceptor, and have gained heaps out of it, from 167rwkw to 221rwkw with only an interceptor and of the shelf exhaust system, still got air intake to do, and why we are on the subject they run brilliant in a ba xr6 turbo, stock car with interceptor 265rwkw. the factory ecu is one of the fastest ecus on the market, getting higher than 14 crosscounts, gone of the days of vn with 2 crosscounts.

[BLACK 346]

i am running an interceptor, and have gained heaps out of it, from 167rwkw to 221rwkw with only an interceptor and of the shelf exhaust system, still got air intake to do, and why we are on the subject they run brilliant in a ba xr6 turbo, stock car with interceptor 265rwkw. the factory ecu is one of the fastest ecus on the market, getting higher than 14 crosscounts, gone of the days of vn with 2 crosscounts.

Why is your England like that of a 5 year old?

[alexander]

thanks justice r8 i will go and see sam

[vyssls1]

Why is your England like that of a 5 year old?

whats wrong with my english, and what dont u understand about that.
do you even know what crosscounts are.

[Justice R8]

i am running an interceptor, and have gained heaps out of it, from 167rwkw to 221rwkw with only an interceptor and of the shelf exhaust system, still got air intake to do, and why we are on the subject they run brilliant in a ba xr6 turbo, stock car with interceptor 265rwkw. the factory ecu is one of the fastest ecus on the market, getting higher than 14 crosscounts, gone of the days of vn with 2 crosscounts.

Are we talking about Ford or Holden. The interceptor was great for the fords before they had anything to get into the PCM. Could they change the RPM limits etc etc etc. I dont think so but maybe I am wrong. It wont be the first time if I am.

You cannot seriously expect me to believe that you think just an interceptor is better than edit, HP tuners or flashscan. :lol:

167 rwkw. WOW now that was really a nugget from the factory and would be one of the worst stockers I have seen.

[vyssls1]

it went like a gemini, but it did have a damaged muffler.

[vyssls1]

and im not really picking sides on different types, i driven different types and ive ran them on the dyno and compared, against edit, mafless, interceptor, etc but they did all have different exhaust systems. and for price and on going price with performance mods, and the power increase. i mean there is some shocking tuners, theres heaps out there in adelaide, and some of the fuel graphs and ignition graphs are crazy.

[motomk]

167 rwkw. WOW now that was really a nugget from the factory and would be one of the worst stockers I have seen.

:(:(

I thought mine was the gem from the factory!!!;) with its whopping great kw count!!!;)

-------------------

Alexander, concur with Justice, go and see that Sam fellow! Turned my shocker into a bolter! I will be paying another visit in a few months time when I have looked up the word cam in the dictionary!
And Yes, I and a few others drive up from Melbourne to visit!

motomk

[Justice R8]

and im not really picking sides on different types, i driven different types and ive ran them on the dyno and compared, against edit, mafless, interceptor, etc but they did all have different exhaust systems. and for price and on going price with performance mods, and the power increase. i mean there is some shocking tuners, theres heaps out there in adelaide, and some of the fuel graphs and ignition graphs are crazy.

As I always say, Hammer wood and Nails doesnt mean I am a builder. Same with tuning. I would think that most people on here that wanted tuning on an LS1 would go to Tuna. He has all the runs on the board through feedback and track results. The other cars you are refering to must be done by other backyard hacks that dont quite know how to use the program properly.

[vyssls1]

thats right back yard hacks, know wonder why so many engines are noisy, and transmissions are stuffed, out there on gen3's, they call them selves tuners, and they dont even know the physics of an engine and what it can actually handle, it will be alright for a while.

[vyssls1]

and did anyone go out to the drags on sunday and see big shaun, run a 10.4 at 143mph, just curious who tuned his car.

[Justice R8]

and did anyone go out to the drags on sunday and see big shaun, run a 10.4 at 143mph, just curious who tuned his car.

I think it is the same man that tunes the CAPA ute. Tuna again

[vyssls1]

anyway back to this thread, its your call, talk to people, theres some good tuners, and some bad tuners out there, and when u go and get your cars tuned, just hope you picked the right tune.

[vyssls1]

and this is what i mean about good tuners, im not being big headed, but another mechanical buisness in Qld, came down to my work, on wednesday and wants to fly me to his workshop to map his new vz cross 8, pay me and teach him a little, on mapping due to years of experience, tuning race cars.
formula 3's and race buggies etc, the best experience i had on mapping was i went to garry rodgers workshop, with the help of my uncle in melbourne and stayed for a week, and that knowledge is priceless.

[ROARZ]

and this is what i mean about good tuners, im not being big headed, but another mechanical buisness in Qld, came down to my work, on wednesday and wants to fly me to his workshop to map his new vz cross 8, pay me and teach him a little, on mapping due to years of experience, tuning race cars. formula 3's and race buggies etc, the best experience i had on mapping was i went to garry rodgers workshop, with the help of my uncle in melbourne and stayed for a week, and that knowledge is priceless.

I guess after a whole week at Garry Roger's workshop you will be teaching him a little.

Piggy back ECU's don't give you a seamless experience with your tune on your street LS1. Sensors such as knock, temperature, etc, systems such as traction control and idle control, and management such as for the auto box are all INSIDE the ECU, so the very best results will only be obtained when you can map fuel and ignition within the same system as all of these other parameters. LS1 Edit, HP Tuners, etc are the only way to do this; a piggy back will never be able to seamlessly interface it's activities with those still managed by the factory ECU. Sure, a piggy back MIGHT make the same peak HP, but once you get on to the street with all the various environmental inputs now impacting drivability, the piggy back will not touch the factory ECU with an edit. HP Tuners over LS1 Edit is just a V2 versus V1 type analysis. HP Tuners have come on to the market after LS1 Edit and have positioned themselves through more attractive pricing and a much richer feature set, hence HP Tuners has become more popular than LS1 Edit.

Oh, and given your experience, you'll of course be making a comment on how tuning with the factory ECU with HP Tuners (or similar) draws on a WHOLE lot more skills than just your mapping skills. Mapping is one important part of it, but having the experience to also alter all the other settings in the factory ECU to match the mapping requires experience in the LS1 ECU operating system. You would not have acquired those skills from mapping race cars. Perhaps you've acquired the LS1 ECU operating system skills as well, but you've not eluded to that in the analysis provided in your prior posts in this thread.

As for the original LS1 Edit vs HP Tuners question, it probably doesn't matter which one is used, but HP Tuners appears to be the LS1 ECU tuning tool of choice currently due to price and functionality. Find a workshop that knows how to use the tool to produce all round results. Sam's has been mentioned, as has the runs on the board, as do quite a number of workshops who are sponsors here.

[MNR-0]

Piggy backs are old school. The only decent ones cost upwards of $5000. The Delphi ECM allows full control over your car and is probably the best piece of kit on an LS1. Even better than the LS1 itself. Dunno why they changed to Bosch. Just to make the aftermarket life hard for us, I guess.

[chook]

As has already been said , it is not the tool but the person using the tool. Weather that be LS1 Edit or HP Tuners. The end result is a tune on your ls1. Let the tuner decide what tool he uses . If the Tuner has runs on the board (as alot do) then it shouldn't matter what he used.

[gameover]

in regards to after market ecu vs. factory, many factory systems are moving or already have moved to an integrated vehicle network architecure. Most today using the CANbus. Many cars now have half a dozen computers running the show (granted not all of these control the engine and trans).

However, if you look at something wike Electronic Throttle "fly by wire" control, it is not trivial, neither is the idle stepper motor control on a cable throttle vehicle. The game for aftermarket ECU's is getting harder not thru cloak and dagger type advancements, but just the fact that powertrain technology is getting more complex and more integrated into other aspects of vehicle control.

On the flipside, the factory ecu game is also getting more complex as ecu's get physically smaller (we are now at the magnifying glass and microscope level) and code size, complexity and calibration size gets bigger.

Obviously there is a place for the aftermarket or piggyback ECU as mentioned in regards to Ford BA tuning, of course it wasn't ideal - but since there was no other option (and the throttle control was proving a tough nut to crack for the aftermarket guys) what else could you do?

Fun and games for everyone!

[Elite SS]

I spoke to the owner of "SUXGAS" on wednesday night at WSID, I was also informed by him that he has a Mafless Tune and not an Edit , In which I though were the same, but not to his disgrunted response, "I'ts not Edited it Mafless Tuned" still remainig with the standard Mafpipe and Maf, So whats the Difference, anyway he ended up doing a best of 13.5 ET.

[Martin_D]

Piggyback computers offer some excellent tuning advantages...such as rock solid traction control, when you plonk the thing under your front wheel if the handbrake fails. This is 2005....not 1980.

[gameover]

Piggyback computers offer some excellent tuning advantages...such as rock solid traction control, when you plonk the thing under your front wheel if the handbrake fails. This is 2005....not 1980.

he he he, i just love the feeling of cutting so many wires at once :)

[Martin_D]

Its like removing a festering wart from the management system....
We tear the terrible signal bending piles of poop out of BA Falcons constantly and then tune the PCM properly. The cars just come alive after that. Its like the things get born again...