History of Holden

[Pro]

Sorry, im a noob to Holden, but did any of the older vehicles have the LT1, LT4, LT5, L98, crossfire motors, etc?
I drove a 91 Z28 camaro that had a L98. Nice low end, but LT1 much better. Same with LS1.

[OzJavelin]

I'm not the best qualified person to comment, but my understanding is Holdens during the late sixties, early seventies used 307(2-bbl), 327(4-bbl), and 350(4-bbl, high and lower compression version). Eventually these were all replaced by the locally designed(?) and built 253ci and 308ci Holden V8 .. used up to 1999 in various forms when replaced by the LS1.

Someone here might know the factory designations for the 307/327/350s?

Rod.

[Danv8]

Sorry, im a noob to Holden, but did any of the older vehicles have the LT1, LT4, LT5, L98, crossfire motors, etc?
I drove a 91 Z28 camaro that had a L98. Nice low end, but LT1 much better. Same with LS1.


First Holdens available with a V8 was in 1968 and they used Chevrolet 307 and 327 V8's in the HT series Holdens.

Around 68? 69 Holden introduced their own V8 engines which was based on the Oldsmobile unit 253 cu in (4.2 litre) and 308 (5.0L) Although the chev V8's were an option from 307 and 350 (327 was dropped in the HT series Holdens).

The small block chev option was deleted after 74?

Then years later Holden replaces the 308 unit with a sligtly smaller 304 cu in V8 in 85?

I am only going by memory though although it was a shame that Holden didn't keep the small block chev options or at least locally assemble them.

Someone would fill up any holes I have made in my post.
:)

[Pro]

Oh ok, so it sounds like Holden didnt begin to use the motors from vehicles such as the Vette, Camaro, Firebird, etc until the LS1 arrived for Holden (whatever year that was). I think the camaro/firebird had the LS1 in 98 and Vette in 96.

[mmciau]

IIRC, they introduced the Holden V8 because of the problems with the steering box design and size in that era.

The Chevy engine had the LH bank of cylinders "staggered more forward" than the RH bank of cylinders whereas the Holden V8 was the opposite configuration.

[BlackClubbie]

What's the main differences between the LT1 and the LS1 guys ?

[ssberlina]

Have a look at this site for all answers.

http://www.holdenhistory.com/

Januray 1968 to May 1969
The HK range launched in January 1968, was touted as the 'New Generation' Holden. The all new body had a longer 111-inch wheelbase and was longer and wider with more interior space then any previous series and for the first time offered V8 power. The optional '5-litre' V8 was actually a 307 cubic inch (210bhp) Chevrolet ('small block') unit with a Rochester 2-Jet (two barrel) carby and was initially offered only with Powerglide automatic transmission. The six cylinder engine range was the same as for the late HR series, including the 186 S.

The other big news for the HK was the huge array of available factory options. Other then the regular engine and transmission options, power drum or disc brakes, air-conditioning, power steering, power windows, bucket seating (with or without recliner), carpet, extra instrumentation and many other items could be specified. It was possible to exceed the previous Premier specifications with even the base model!

In fact, playing the 'options game' with the HK could result in more than two million variaties!

Name changes were the order of the day. While the Premier nameplate remained in both sedan and station wagon styles, the Special was renamed Kingswood and the Standard sedan and station wagon were now called the Belmont. The commercial range released two months later boasted a Belmont utility and panel van and also an upmarket model, the Kingswood utility. No Kingswood panel van was offered.

The biggest automotive surprise of 1968 came in July. A Holden two-door coupe had been rumoured for many years, however GM-H released a full range of coupes, from the base Monaro (basically a two-door Kingswood), a 186 S six-cylinder engined Monaro GTS and, with a 5-litre V8 option, the Bathurst bound Moraro GTS 327.

This car broke new ground for GM-H. It had a 250bhp, four-barrel carburettored 327 Chevrolet small-block engine, a four speed heavy-duty Saginaw gearbox with console shift, a 10-bolt Chevrolet Salisbury differential located with radius anti-tramp rods, a 25-gallon fuel tank and lots more - certainly not your average Holden. The GTS 327 won Bathurst in 1968 with ease, picking up 1st, 2nd and 3rd placings. Not bad for the coupe's first try!

The flagship of the HK range was the Brougham, which was released simultaneously with the Monaro. This car was GM-H's answer to the Ford Fairlane. Instead of being built on a longer wheelbase (as was the Fairlane), the Brougham was really a Premier sedan with a longer boot, new rear panels and tail-light treatment, built to a higher specification. The Brougham's equipment list included the 5-litre V8 engine, Powerglide automatic, power steering, power front disc brakes, heater / demister, carpet and so on. The seats and door trims featured a new Brocade material.


COMP. RATIO OUTPUT ENG.NO.
PREFIX
161 LO 8.2 108 BHP 161L
161 HI 9.2 114 BHP 161H
186 9.2 126 BHP 186P
186S 9.2 145 BHP 186S
307 V8 8.75 210 BHP 307
327 V8
(1968) 8.75 250 BHP 327
327 V8
(1969 - ) 8.5 235 BHP 327


Etc etc

This site has full details of all the models and pics etc as well.


I hope that helps

[lxhatch]

First Holdens available with a V8 was in 1968 and they used Chevrolet 307 and 327 V8's in the HT series Holdens.


they were the HK's in 1968.
I think the 1st real push for V8's in sedans was the "White Hot" release of HT's.
(by memory, will stand corrected :) )

[Danv8]

they were the HK's in 1968.
I think the 1st real push for V8's in sedans was the "White Hot" release of HT's.
(by memory, will stand corrected :) )

I put enough punishment on my brain so early in the day to remember. :)

[goofafidamedes]

What's the main differences between the LT1 and the LS1 guys ?

Wasn't the LT1 a light truck engine (hence the name), before chevrolet decided it might be good in the Corvette slash some other Chevy sports mobile.

Just guessing that the LS1 was a sports derivative of the LT1.

[muzza]

LS1 was a clean sheet I think.

Only bore centres were carried over: "What it is not is: "based on" Ed Cole’s legendary Small-Block. LS1’s greatness comes from being a clean-sheet-of-paper design. The only major feature it has in common with the Small-Block is a bore center-to-center measurement of 4.40 inches and we believe that exists for marketing reasons rather than an engineering case."

from http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html

Spend 1/2 an hour reading if you have time - gives some insights into design.

[BlackClubbie]

Thanks for the info mate, great read !.

[YCV8]

As far as I am aware Holden never used any of the above mentioned Chevs.

The L98 is the engine config used in the C4 Corvette (and shortly after the Camaro and Firebirds etc) and was built from the 1st Generation block (Gen 1). From 85 onwards it utilised the Tuned Port Injection setup (that looks like a big crab and is often used in retro street machines). I had one of these in a 1989 Corvette a few years back. They ended in 1990/91 and by that stage were producing approx 245hp. They weren't known for their hp but the long tuned intake runners produced boot loads (comparitively speaking) of torque (340 lb/ft or 455nm).

In 1990 the LT5 was born (made by Lotus and Mercury Marine) and was fitted to the ZR1. They were 32 valve dual overhead cam 5.7L V8 with 16 intake runners (8 of which could be closed with a special valet mode reducing hp significantly, also known as Mrs mode). At their factory best they produced 400hp. I saw an LX hatch in Street machine mag recently with one of these motors fitted - awesome. These motors could rev.

The LT1 was the Gen 2 5.7 that preceeded the Gen III LS1. It started out in the 1992 vette. It was a new block design "Corvette's new LT1 engine employed reverse flow cooling, a Chevrolet first. Rather than route coolant from the pump through the block to the heads, the LT1 routed coolant to the heads first. This permitted higher bore temperatures and reduced ring friction, and helped cooling around the valve seats and spark plug bosses. " The LT1 vettes used speed density whereas the L98 previously (except for maybe the 91 version) used a MAF. Chev went back to the MAF with the LS1. LT1 was good for 300hp and 340 lb/ft.

The LT4 was a special order version of the LT1 (still used the Gen 2 blcok) but had different heads, cam and other internals. The LT4 was designed for the special edition Grand Sport Vettes and produced 330hp and 345 lb/ft.

"A new version of Chevy's 350-cubic-inch small block, RPO LT4, became optional exclusively with 1996 Corvettes. Rated at 330-horsepower, 30 more than the base LTl, the LT4 had higher compression (10.8:1 vs 10.4:1), new aluminum head design, Crane roller rocker arms, revised camshaft profile, and other major and minor tweaks. The LT4's redine increased to 6300 rpm (5700 rpm for LT1), so LT4-equipped models had 8000 rpm tachometres instead of the base 6000 rpm. LT4 was available with all Corvette models, but only with manual transmissions. "

Anyway that is some info on those mentioned motors. Owned a Corvette and an S Pack Commodore and sold them both for a S3 Monaro. Sorted of merged them into one. Commodore meets 2 door Chev.

Hope this info helps.

[ssvyredute]

Then years later Holden replaces the 308 unit with a sligtly smaller 304 cu in V8 in 85?


:)

dan holden reduced capacity for the vk grp a regs just for that year 1985, then reverted back to 308 for the vl to vt1
cheers

[Danv8]

dan holden reduced capacity for the vk grp a regs just for that year 1985, then reverted back to 308 for the vl to vt1
cheers


Interesting although the 308 was 5047cc and the 304 was 4987 cc.

And the 4987 cc was still used in the VL to VT1's.

[Jag530G]

dan holden reduced capacity for the vk grp a regs just for that year 1985, then reverted back to 308 for the vl to vt1
cheers

This incorrect, the 304, (as Dan notes is 4987cc) ran from VK to VT1, Peter Brock's HDT operation liked to refer to the 304 in the VL Group A (HDT version, not the Walky) as a 4.9L, Holden prefered 5.0L, which of course is mathematically correct when rounded to 2 significant figures.

With regards to not offering the 350 Chev beyond the HQ, the 350 Chev that would have been available for the HJ was so strangled by US anti pollution gear that the HJ spec 308 was just as powerful.

Something to be careful of with Engine specs of the seventies and earlier, engine power is generally quoted as gross power, hence a 300hp (224KW) 350 HG GTS Monaro is basically a crap power figure when compared to a V2 Series 1 Monaro (225KW), HG 0-100 approx 8.5 secs, V2 S1 0-100 approx 6.5 secs.

Cheers, Matthew

[ssvyredute]

yes that is all true but they were still referred to as 308`s not 304`s as that was the point i was trying to make to dan.

[CrazyAussie]

G'day
ok the LT1 has a difference to the LS1 as in the water actually cools the heads first then into the block as into stop predetination, the LS1 has the cooling running through block first.

[tim_k]

Just on the 350 being deleted after the HQ, I think the US moved to cat converters, ULP and pollution gear in 1974 or 75. The 308 in the HJ had more power than the 350 on offer. And then in 77, Australia chucked on the pollution gear and power nosedived until the Brock motors reversed the hp trend in the early 80's