Alloytec V6 - performance and economy

[Swordie]

How are people finding the Alloytec in terms of performance and economy compared to the old Ecotec?

[HsV_GTS_300]

I heard its pretty pathetic power wise, well the 175 KW one at least ;)

I think Swordie is after peoples personal experiences with the alloytec. Not hearsay or speculation, you know what they say dont knock it till you have tryed it. As is the case i havent had a personal experience with one so i will leave it at this.

[Aus8]

Ive driven my next door neighbours SV6. It does the job but I am unimpressed to be honest only because they hyped it up! But I guess im used to a modded LS1 as my private car. I drive a mixture of VY Ecotec and VZ Alloytec executives at work and the Alloytec is smooth and effortless but its just like the Ecotec above 3500rpm. (ie loud and harsh - sounds like its going to explode) Its not a bad engine but just not the greatest leap forward they were making it out to be IMO.

Ive always said personally If it was my dosh everytime I would take a Holden 8 but always a Ford 6 (It hurts to say this but the BA182 engine really is better than any Holden V6) and i would be very happy with my choice.

Economy in our work VY V6's compared to our couple of VZ 3.6 Executives is fairly similar. If anything the Alloyec is slightly better IMO. (not 100% sure as company pays for it)

I hope this helps you out a bit

Cheers

Aus8

[fester1]

From my personal experience the performance of the alloytec 190 seems to be pretty much like the old ecotec at low revs ( with a lot more noise) but open it up and it really sings and easily outperforms its the old powerplant. As far as economy goes my SV6 has done 15K now and I am still getting an average of 12/100 pretty consistently with a an equal blend of city/country driving. On a recent trip interstate it returned 9/100 which is the best I've managed and I was pretty impressed.

[bigdongers]

Ive driven an SV6 and found that you need to give it lots of revs otherwise it feels quite slow.

[Aus8]

While that does seem to be the case interceptor the original question asked was: "How are people finding the Alloytec in terms of performance and economy compared to the old Ecotec?"

I have said I prefer the BA I6 but I also answered the question of how I find the Alloytec compared to the Ecotec.

Cheers

Aus8

[BA$TAD]

my experience with the alloytec is short...a quick squirt of the VZ a couple of months before it was released. that's all i needed to say it was better than the ecotec. it didn't feel quicker or more powerful, sounded the same but it was smoother.

[VRIIClubby]

my brother and dad both have company hack VZ acclaims, I quite like them, they easily out perform the ecotec (mates have them as there comp hacks), only thing I dont like is the feeling off "run off" after jumping off the throtle, there fuel economy isnt bad either, alot better than the eco...

[Danv8]

it didn't feel quicker or more powerful, sounded the same but it was smoother.[/QUOTE]


I found that many V6's sounds the same especially light commercial vehicles like the V6 Pajero/Triton/Challenger and Holden Rodeo V6's. And including the Commode 3800 V6 with sports exhausts. I find them all sound similar in the zorst notes.

Alfa Romeo V6's sounds great but nothing as good as a worked V8. :)

[Ricko]

In the Alloytec 190 i've driven a manual and an auto, and the auto feels really zippy compared to an auto Ecotec, the manual feels doughy off the mark but is otherwise good i reckon (never driven an Ecotec manual).

As far as noise goes. its far quiter than ecotec IMO, yes its a bit noisy with whirring and what not, but it doesnt sound strained like the ecotec did at revs, it likes the revs.

[Danv8]

[QUOTE=Inter-ceptor]Mate, reading facts about the two engines is more than enough. Barra is only being praised, Im yet to read even one review where Alloytec has been glorified!

Reading facts vs Real life comparison

I'd take real life comparison thanks.

[Danv8]

I have take a spin in a demo red VZ SV6 manual late last year
The new V6 is a step up from the Ecotec 3800 with "Drives"
critisims on the new V6 being rough as the old 3800 is bs the engine was quite
smooth compared to the old 3800 and no where near as asthmastic as well. The 6 speed gearbox is good not great but its pretty slick and light. Hitting the rev limiter wasn't all that hard although the engine was still very tight at the time. It did have a rather load intake sound when pushed hard but in normal driving it wasn't all that noticeable. I also have driven a VZ with the 175 kw it was smoother than the old 3800 but I didn't find it all that much difference power wise although the 4 speed clunker was much more behaved.

I personally take journalists views with a grain of salt now. I don't even buy car magazines anymore unless there is something that really interests me.

The alloytec is still only a pup give it a chance to grow before claiming it sucks.

[White Rider]

I would *think* that the 175kw v6 is harsh at high revs because it doesnt have VVT. There should be no excuse for the 190 being harsh. I think its important to distinguish these engines when making your comparisons to the Ecotec.

[Dacious]

Just asked the chap at work here who had an XR6 - which he and his wife loved and was flawless - how his lease SV6 is. His has 4,000km on it.

Major complaint - still lack of any noise from the engine. No harshness - in fact he reckons the XR made more noise and shakes at high revs, which he liked - felt like an old musclecar. The SV6 to him feels like a big electric motor.

Economy - no contest. Same driving, mostly his missus in the suburbs auto XR6 15-16l/100 km. Auto Sv6 - 11/12.

As far as performance, he says the SV feels lighter and quicker and is definitely faster to overtake and the tranny is far smoother shifting - you often don't know what gear it's in or how many up or downshifts it's made.

Ride goes Ford's way, handling, braking and roadholding goes to the SV. SV is a lot firmer with far less bodyroll and weighs less with better balance in the twisties.

[Nidz]

Got a mate who just recently went to QLD and had 2 of the new VZ's. The first was a exec with the stock standard Alloytec V6. He claims it's not much different than the old ecotecs but has a bit of a 'whining' noise that emits from it. The second was a brand new Statesman with like 5000 on the clock. It had the upgraded Alloytec engine and claims there's a way more noticable performance increase over the other one.

Second hand information but i thought i'd share. I haven't tried one myself but i'm dying to try one of those paddle shift ones.

[O5BRKY]

Mate, reading facts about the two engines is more than enough. Barra is only being praised, !
Except in the fuel economy

[220i]

I'll add my 2c.

I drove a VS Acclaim for 3years. Was stock for about two yrs then I did exhaust and chip. I took a vz Calais for a spin, it was a hire car though so I'm certain it was thrashed, but it went pretty well. The sound however was HORRIBLE. I'm putting it down to being thrashed becuase if they all sounded like that no one would get them. The paddles were good fun, something new to try and worked well. The power mode also held gears for ages, it almost held them too long when you just around the burbs, but I guess thats why you have options, normal, power or paddles. So all in all it felt quick compared to the old ecotec, not as punchy down low but I'm sure that will be revised in VE. Just the sound....ugghhh :bash:

[delftssute]

Morning all. I have had my SV6 for almost 11,000 kms and though I can't offer much of a comparison with the old 6, as I have never owned one, but been a passenger many times, the engine is definitely smoother. Yes, you need to give its some revs, but once it gets going and especially when using the paddles to change approaching the limiter its good fun. My last ride was a VU SS M6, so a direct comparison is not easy, but just like the LS1 you need some revs to get it going. The 5 speed auto is a treat, very smooth - during normal driving you hardly notice the changes, and when accelerating hard the changes a quick and very definite. When it kicks down there is no hesitation, it just does it and gets on with job. As for fuel economy I accelerate pretty hard most of the times and have averaged 10.8L/100 with a mix of city and freeway driving. When the missus drives it she averages a bit below 10L/100, but her foot is a bit lighter than mine. Overall very happy, as some one else said – don’t believe everything that you read, experience it yourself. If you can’t get an extended drive from a dealer then hire one for a day or two and have some fun. Cheers delftssute, or should it be QuicksilverSV6. C ya.

[TJS-81]

Except in the fuel economy
I drive a ba XR6 ute...purely town driving to work and back all week, with the odd HARD squirt. She averages no higher than 12 L/100. The utes are heavier than the sedans and mine always has heaps of fuel on board.

[Knight Phlier]

Is it likely that the 175 Alloytech will have a life in the VE?

I hope that Holden are able replace the current line up with a 190Alloytech on base models, and a TT36 as an option on others :D

[Merlin]

I had had some recent models in the driveway for around a year:

- An '04 auto SV6 (company car)
- A '03 BA manual XR6 (personal car)
- A '04 manual Camry Sportivo (father-in-laws)

Ok firstly lets get the Sportivo out of the way - the oldies love it, i hate being seen near it ;) THe engine dosnt really compare to the other two, feels quite slow. Those ads where they drive it around a mountain are just plain misleading.

The SV6 took forever to get going (may have been as it was an auto), went OK once wound up but felt quite harsh at the top end. Fuel economy was good considering being a company car it was constantly thrashed with a/c on - 12L/100kms.

XR6 had the best engine - very torquey, always gave a big shove in the back, and sounded great while doing it - but was relativley thirsty. Ave 12.2L/100km whilst babying it around with no a/c.

Would love to drive an SV6 manual just to get a proper comparo but hard to go past the Barra 6 IMO. 8's is another story though.

[ShanghaiVZ]

Seems the hype has overshadowed the reality.
It is a vastly superior engine to the ecotec, it's not as silky smooth or quiet as the japanese DOHC motors, but what Australian motor is, what are you expecting it to sound like, after all its only a V6, compared to the old Ecotec it runs rings around it. It's a little rough around the edges, but what true blue aussie isnt. :)

[Ghia351]

Is it likely that the 175 Alloytech will have a life in the VE?

I hope that Holden are able replace the current line up with a 190Alloytech on base models, and a TT36 as an option on others :D
Interseting question and as has been publically stated Holden are taking a big hit on having to import the parts that were going to be made by Ion. I guess it comes down to profit levels and whether the "base" engine/A4 still needs to be offered to keep costs down.

[SV6T]

Ive got a SV6 190 in the auto with the paddles, when i first got it didnt want to open up much but now after 7000km it opens up nicely, from very smooth....to a big punch in auto

when changed to paddles you get a quicker takeoff but dont feel the big punch as much when gears change. with power on the torque is increased greatly

ive gone up against a VL turbo manual thats had a conversion to a RB25 engine with garret t34 turbo runing 15psi and a GReady front mount apexi powerFC ECU dyno'd at 187rwkw. the SV6 performed pretty well for a stock standard car....we agreed on 2-3 car lengths behind the VL turbo.

soon im modifying the cold air intake and installing hurricane 3" headers and remus 3" hi-flow cats and 3" exhaust right thru' and plan on a turbo conversion and new computer in the near future.


also if some can clear this up for me with a 190kw engin how many kw would you lose from the engine to the rear wheels.

[Danv8]

Just for the sake of it here is a carpoint SV6 vs XR6

click here to see (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__6485/ArticleID__7260/DesktopDefault.aspx)

Here is a snippet about the SV6

"Choosing a winner between these two is not easy, and far more difficult than at first seems obvious given the huge advances the VZ Commodore has made in performance and refinement with its new drivetrain. That this smoother, freer-revving and more powerful engine, teamed with the sophistication of the five-speed automatic, is a big leap over VY seems obvious enough."


So many inconsistent reviews about the new HFV6 :bash:

[Wezza]

Is it likely that the 175 Alloytech will have a life in the VE?

I hope that Holden are able replace the current line up with a 190Alloytech on base models, and a TT36 as an option on others :D
I'm betting that the 175 won't be offered in the VE. The 190/A5 will be the base model offering. The VE is going to be heavier than the VZ, so the extra power is warranted. There is apparently a turbo/twin turbo (not sure) version in the pipeline to fill the gap between the V6 & V8 models.

[Aloof]

not wanting ti hi-jack the thread but i don't thing going turbo will "fill the gap between n/a 6 and v8.

ford have shown how a turbo 6 can eat a ford v8

i thing holden would be very concerned about a serious threat to their beloved v8 image ...IMHO

[Drizt]

not wanting ti hi-jack the thread but i don't thing going turbo will "fill the gap between n/a 6 and v8.

ford have shown how a turbo 6 can eat a ford v8

i thing holden would be very concerned about a serious threat to their beloved v8 image ...IMHO


easiest way is to actually release a very down tuned car.. (TTv6)... have a 240kW ttV6 and a 270kW down tuned LS2....... and actually have a difference in power unlike the Xr6t and Xr8 which on dyno's seem to have very similar power...

[Swordie]

It seems the 6spd manual on the SV6 is rated at a maximum of 300HP, not sure about the auto.

[lxhatch]

just completed 4550k's in three and half days, 170kw V6, VZ "S" ute, 6speed, 2 ppl , 400kg load in back - fuel consumption = 8.5 L/100 @ ave speed 102.5kph, vehicle clicked over 8.5k total mileage at finish. Very comfortable and effortless to drive. :cool:

Real-world performance is very good with this thing. :D

[HOTSV6]

I have 21000kms on my SV6 auto now. averages around 8L/100kms out of town and up to 9.5L/100kms in the city. Can't remember seeing it over 10L/100kms.
I also have a VY2 executive work car and they are chalk and cheese performance wise. Hard to believe people are not noticing the serious improvement in performance once it gets a few revs. Infinitely more refined gear changes when not flogging it also.

[wawoo]

I have 21000kms on my SV6 auto now. averages around 8L/100kms out of town and up to 9.5L/100kms in the city. Can't remember seeing it over 10L/100kms.

I am interested to know what your average klms are for this mileage?

My average is a poor 35klms and the mileage is around the 14l/100klms. I have 1800 klms on the clock so far. I noticed that it drops to around 9.6l/100k when on the open highway, but city driving ruins those figures.

I am not heavy footed, but am not light footed either. I give it some juice at times as i enjoy being able to keep up with motorcycles off the line at the lights ;)

For the record I think the SV6 is awsome, but then i have come from the 4x4 brigade (NM Pajero) and can't really compare the two. I have the A5 and find the paddles a novelty - but a very enjoyable one at that.

my 2c

Andrew

[Dacious]

I am not heavy footed, but am not light footed either. I give it some juice at times as i enjoy being able to keep up with motorcycles off the line at the lights ;)

Andrew

Not lead-footed but you think you can keep up with motorcycles off the line....? :lol:

[nikola]

Seems the hype has overshadowed the reality.
It is a vastly superior engine to the ecotec, it's not as silky smooth or quiet as the japanese DOHC motors, but what Australian motor is, what are you expecting it to sound like, after all its only a V6, compared to the old Ecotec it runs rings around it. It's a little rough around the edges, but what true blue aussie isnt. :)

How is it so vastly superior? From most of the reports by the members on this forum, it has less low-end torque compared to the old Buick and sounds just as bad. The only improvements are smoother revving and more top-end which means nothing around town when the revs don't go above 3000rpm.

I wonder how it compares to the Nissan 3.5 litre V6 from the Maxima? Or, even the Magna V6?

[lxhatch]

How is it so vastly superior? From most of the reports by the members on this forum, it has less low-end torque compared to the old Buick and sounds just as bad. The only improvements are smoother revving and more top-end which means nothing around town when the revs don't go above 3000rpm.

I wonder how it compares to the Nissan 3.5 litre V6 from the Maxima? Or, even the Magna V6?

Just drive one and see for yourself. Why dont you go over 3000 revs? - just hold the low gears longer up to the speed limit. Anyone who learnt how to drive a 4 cylinder quickly, will no - or Should Not - have trouble getting the V6 to hum.
The old 3.8 turned me off Holdens for a decade - but as I said on the bottom of the previous page, after spending quite a few thousand clicks in the VZ, IMHO it's very good.
As for the Maxima/magna thing - why hypothesise - look at the packages they come in? Not my cup of tea - but I'm sure plenty of ppl like them and that's fine

[nikola]

Unless you're driving enthusiastically, there is no need to go above 3000rpm with the Buick. Around town I find it's more than fast enought because of all that low-end torque. If the new engine is lacking in that operating range then it's probably not such a good thing and Holden need to give it more capacity. But yes, I will drive it to see for myself because it's probably not that bad.

And the reason I compared it to the Maxima engine is because GM used the Nissan V6 as one of it's yardstick's for what to aim for. If it's nowhere near as good then GM failed miserably.

[Danv8]

As for the Maxima/magna thing - why hypothesise - look at the packages they come in? Not my cup of tea - but I'm sure plenty of ppl like them and that's fine[/QUOTE]

I personally find the latest Magna and Maxima to be extreamly ugly. Even if they have the best engines in the world just the looks of them put me off. The HFV6 might not have the off line punch as the old 3800 but I find the 190kw HFV6 smoother and to be a sweeter engine. But its funny that the 3800 in USA is still in use even there is a series 3 3800. Although I find engines that are too smooth rather boring as bat poop. :)

[Red CV8 R]

I am currently driving a VZ Berlina company car and from brand new it felt really smooth and quiet but as the kms have racked up it sounds horrible! I think there is something wrong with it and will find out at the 10,000km service in a few weeks. If this is what the test cars that the motoring scribes were given sounded like I understand where they are coming from! Having said that it is efficent and has plenty of go for a stock sedan and I dont really notice the loss of low down that other people talk of compared to the string of Ecotec Berlina company cars I have driven in the past. It definately has more top end and has no trouble spinning the rears when given a hit! If it didnt sound like it does I would give it two thumbs up.