VZ commodore - worst blind spots

[pagey]

On the news just then. Only caught the end but...

The VZ scored the worst for blind spots.. worst than the 4X4's!!

That can't go down well @ Holden...

Maybe they got too caught up in the performance side??? (Can't believe I just said that :lol: )

[Oldmonroman]

If I was Holden and I hope your reading this I would be conduction my own test and if they differ I will be getting a Battery of Barristers out and sue the ar,,..se
of the NRMA.

[pagey]

I find it hard to believe that the timing (the recent story on the old case where the little girl died) is a coincidence..

[spaceman347]

I find the worse blind spot with my VX (not sure how much different the VZ is), is the position of the A pillar. Nearly wiped out a pedestrian or 2 stepping out from the side of the road 'cause they were completely obscured behind the A pillar (particular if I'm on e gentle right hand corner) :o

[pagey]

Sorry.. should have clarified.

The story was concentrating on blind spots when reversing... but obviously still inplay while driving.

[Febs]

I don't find my VX too bad, but my VS is a lot better for rear visibility. Probably due to the narrower C pillars.

Cheers,
- Febs.

[spaceman347]

Sorry.. should have clarified.

The story was concentrating on blind spots when reversing... but obviously still inplay while driving.
Well if that's the case, I can't see shit out the back of the clubby when reversing, that damn rear wing might look cool, but it doesn't do much for rearward visibilty. Good thing I don 't go backward too much :p

[Aus8]

My old VX2 sedan had the worst rear end visibility I have ever experienced.

Aus8

[xcapee]

I recently migrated from a VT SS to a VZ SS and I can vouch that the VZ rear vision is a LOT worse. It wasnt great in the VT but on the VZ with the higher boot and spoiler... geez if you are reverse parking and the car behind you is lower and narrower (which means u cant see it in the side mirrors) , then it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to park.

Now this news story was about seeing a 2 year old child behind the car whilst reversing and yes I would have to say, it would be pretty easy for a 2 year old to run out behind the car and for the driver not to know the child was there.

[blackduck]

when i got the VY berlina with spoiler, the rear viz was worse than in the VXSS. So when i ordered the VYSSII, had rear park assist fitted. Absolutely great. Will always have it fitted now. Doesn't mean that you don't have to look first, but certinly helps when 'parking backwards in NSW country towns'.

[carfreakxr6]

Try getting into an AU! Ive found all the commodores are much better

[Ghosn]

The monaros are a joke when it comes to blind spots but that is just a small compromise...

[NuffNuff]

my VX sedan is horrible, i miss the wagon :(

[seracing]

i drive a lot of rentil cars when out of town and think the commodores are one of the best as well as the toyota avlon.The worst has got to be the Magna followed buy the camry,yet they rate the magna in the top 5 :bash:

[my_Berlina]

What a pointless study. At a time when the issue of cars in school zones is being raised the
NRMA do a study on visibility for 2 year olds - don't find many of them at school.

As parents, we didn't leave our 2yo to wander around outside without supervision.

Ofcause I would expect nothing better from the media, but NRMA please get a clue.

Dave !

(Oh and I open my sunroof and stick the top of my head out to reverse my trailer
this allows me to see the trailer between the wing and the boot)

[VeeTee346]

Now I'll be first to admit rear vision VT-VZ is pretty shocking... and this is before any spoiler is added. It's just the general styling of the car - the rear waistline gets quite high compared to the "c0ckroach" AU Falcon for example (and no doubt the BA - same hardpoints).

But from what I could see, the testing looked flawed. You could see they applied red on the ground behind each vehicle to show the road that can be seen from the driver's seat. Notice how long the red was for the VZ Exec they had in there, compared to the Territory next to it.

However, consider that the Territory driving position is quite a bit higher off the ground, so the distance away you could spot a metre high kiddie might be closer compared to the Territory than the red paint suggests. Take the extreme example, right behind each vehicle - I'm sure that the bottom of a Commodore's rear window is lower than a Territory's. And guess what, that's where said kiddie is before you hit them - not 15 metres away.

Before bagging out visibility, why can't NRMA commission more fascinating studies, like:
* how some drivers can actually drive forward, let alone reverse, with their eye level horizontal to the top of the steering wheel
* what on earth is going on downstairs with drivers putting around with their brake lights constantly on
* nighttime, no lights. Streetlights might mask it, but HELLO is anyone even occasionally looking at the black void that is their dash??!
* owning a Camry - is there a link to this car and general moronic driving behaviour

(/rant) :cussing:

[Dan_LS1]

I find after driving mostly older cars (before I bought my vy) that they had much better rear visibility.

It is more difficult to reverse park than my old skyline but i think im use to it now.

If you really want a challenge try reverse parking a territory into a tight spot without rear assist sensors.

I think it comes down to the shape of the boot.

VT's are bad as well but not as bad as the VY/VZ.

Also some more points for that nrma study:

1. Why do people seem to think once they get in the overtaking lane on the freeway its theirs no matter what speed they doing?

2. Why do people drive with their high beam on during daylight on the freeway fair enough have your headlights but hi beam?

3. Why do people ride the brakes esp. taxis?

4. Why do people who drive prestige cars feel they dont need to use indicators?

[ELLE EX ATE]

i find the LX8 vision rearward unsettling at least.

Firstly, the poor rear vision is attribtuted from the low position of the rear view mirror due to the laid back front windscreen and high rear window. i have pushed the mirror up as far as i can get it. Lucky though it comes with rear parking sensors, my neighbours young kids like to play near my driveway on the foot path. Other factors that reduce vision are the 3 rear head rests, cargo net with wide edges, and the cargo blind in it's upright stowed position which all effectively raise the rear view minimum height. By the way the parking sensors are less effective when the object is skinny (pole) or radio is at moderate sound level (cannot be heard way down the back there).

Secondly, when changing lanes and performing the head over the shoulder glance back to check the blind spot, i get a nice view of the B piller, surely it doesn't need to be that fat. I have been caught out not trusting the glance and moving my head around for more view area in the side mirrors only to smack my head into the side window (doh!)

Some more thought here from holden would be welcomed

[daza]

When I drove an adventurer I was having the exact thoughts you were.
I think the lack of visibility in most new cars is probably due to a few different factors.
The complex shapes that the older models have would have to be harder to make accurately (roof pillars, grills and corners of major panels like where the tail lights all seem to be now in the rear of the car) and this would make them more expensive.
So much more of the initial work is done on the computer so by the time the cars get to a tactile stage it seems to have gone past the point where things like vision are catered to unless it is absolutely required.
But credit where its due today's cars are built to much finer tolerances than ever before and new models seem to appear in much less time than it took in the past. Better, cheaper cars sounds like a recipe for success to me?
Cheers

[NickS]

I noticed the same study put the Mazda MX-5 and BMW Z4 in the top 5. Now I have driven both of these cars and when the roof is up the rearward vision is bloody horrible. I don't know if they tested these things with the roof down but I can see a hell of a lot more out of any Holden than I can out of any convertable.

[Knight Phlier]

http://www.nrma.com.au/pub/nrma/motor/car-research/reversing-visibility/index.shtml

It is interesting to note that while the Commodore didn't do that well in this study - Neither did alot of the 4WD's, including the expensive ones.

[VRIIClubby]

isnt this why we have reversing sensors>? lol...

Worst blind spot is the A Pillar in the VT-VZ IMHO, get back in my VR and I can see those apex's...

[Oldmonroman]

Its all a joke, so is the NRMA, they are all stroking about visibility and nobody is doing a thing about those BLACK socks that they put over the rear passengers window to cut the sun from the babies face, We, MY FAMILY was nearly TERMINATED by a driver that changed lane because of these socks and run us off the read, She said "QUOTE" Sorry I didn't see you. I complain to every Department that I could complain to and thats as far as it got.
Again NRMA your a Joke you only run stories that suit you $$$$$$
No, I've never been insured by them

[kryten2001]

The monaros are a joke when it comes to blind spots but that is just a small compromise...

Mmmm I reckon the Monaro and the VY/VZs are equally as shocking (bring on rear park assist as standard I reckon). One thing I did notice was particularly bad on the monaro, was the height of the roof/door pillars. Try and move your head towards the glass to get a better field of view, and you'll thump you're forehead on the pillar!

As you say, a very small compromise for an otherwise excellent package.

After using em though, I don't think I'd want to live without rear parking assists on a commodore classed car... It's OK on small cars where it's obvious where the boot ends - but it's bloody hard on spoilered/high wing/big booted/big bumpered cars.

Or maybe it's an age thing... :D

[chops]

I find it interesting that the Toyota Echo scores 3 1/2 stars.
The overall visibility from my wife's Echo is MANY TIMES worse than from my VY.
This is particularly evident when changing lanes - the B pillar area is HUGE.

Agreed about the rear park assist though, it's a great invention.

[BLK6T]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Back-up--now-the-family-car-joins-4WDs-as-a-driveway-threat/2005/05/26/1116950819344.html

Heres the SMH story saying the VX & monaro are bad...

[OzJavelin]

Yep, rear vision in a VY/VZ with rear spoiler is pretty bad ... but I drove about in a XB Falcon coupe for a few years so I'm used to taking many, good, long looks BEFORE attempting any lane changing or reversing manuvers (spelling?)

One other thing with cars like this with high boot lines is that often people "appear" to be tailgating 'cos you can't see the front of their car .. they probably are tailgating a bit, but not as close as you (I?) think. When I drive the Javelin, being smaller and lower to the ground, I *know* when people are tailgating (the Phoenix is the best thing for tailgaters ... a quick touch on the brakes and the see a wall of taillights go on just above a nice, heavy chrome bumper :) )

Rod.

[Fixel]

If we're also comapring older cars, take an XA - XC coupe for a trip to the parking lot :eek:

Add a Detroit Locker diff and try and reverse park :lol:

I had one.... I added the alloy rear wing just so I could see where the arse was :booty:

Didn't I hear recently that the HQ - HZ was the best for driver's viewing position?

[O5BRKY]

i find the LX8 vision rearward unsettling at least.

Firstly, the poor rear vision is attribtuted from the low position of the rear view mirror due to the laid back front windscreen and high rear window. i have pushed the mirror up as far as i can get it. Lucky though it comes with rear parking sensors, my neighbours young kids like to play near my driveway on the foot path. Other factors that reduce vision are the 3 rear head rests, cargo net with wide edges, and the cargo blind in it's upright stowed position which all effectively raise the rear view minimum height. By the way the parking sensors are less effective when the object is skinny (pole) or radio is at moderate sound level (cannot be heard way down the back there).

Secondly, when changing lanes and performing the head over the shoulder glance back to check the blind spot, i get a nice view of the B piller, surely it doesn't need to be that fat. I have been caught out not trusting the glance and moving my head around for more view area in the side mirrors only to smack my head into the side window (doh!)

Some more thought here from holden would be welcomed

I find mine to be very good....better that the 4wd's I've owned..

[Ghia351]

* what on earth is going on downstairs with drivers putting around with their brake lights constantly on

This one particular p**ses me off, left foot braker's resting their foot on the brake pedal and you never know if they're actually slowing down or have very weak left leg muscles.

[Mongy]

Look, let’s face it, cars are designed to be driven forward, they go in other directions for a very small amount of time so any design visibility is geared towards that. All cars have some form of blind spot, utes are not that good I can tell you. What it really comes down to is the individuals intelligence on how they counteract the danger of that blindspot. People who don’t have accidents work around it and compensate for their vehicles poor design. When was the last time anybody saw a person walk up to their car and actually look around to see if anything was going to cause them problems if they had to go backwards? Most people usually just jump in and reverse away without checking first. They don’t adjust their mirrors so they have better vision in the blind spot, they don’t realise the mirror glued to the windscreen is for looking at what is directly behind them and the ones attached to the side of the car are for looking at things towards the sides of the car and in their blind spot, no, they have all three set so they can see directly behind and merrily pull into another lane when there is a vehicle on the rear threequarter. If more people set their cars mirrors up properly and drove with their mind actually on the job we would have less incidents. I always go back to defensive driving courses where you are taught to look around and memorise what vehicles are in your immediate vicinity.

[Devil CV8]

Mongy, you have hit the nail on the head. Driver's need to take some responsibility for their actions and not blame the car. If a car has a 1m blindspot to the rear and the driver still hit a small child, the excuse would still be "didn't see you, damn blind spot". Know your car, adjust your mirrors... and I don't mean adjust and forget. i.e passenger mirror gets adjusted depending on if I am reversing or driving.