257 rwkw Maf, 273.8 rwkw Mafless

[solid]

Just had new cam installed in my VT SS, comp cams XR281HR. Ran Maf tune first with VZ Maf sensor but unhappy with it, so went and added a little Tuna to the recipe and dropped a Mafless tune in and went from 257 to 273.8 rwkw :D :D :D Now, time to grab a beer and popcorn...

[VX2VESS]

understandable.

Same person tuned the maf ?

[solid]

Hehe, no different person who did Maf tune so really difficult to base comparisons. Car runs extremely well with Mafless tune perfect idle and good allround behaviour and performance

[markone2]

a Mafless tune in and went from 257 to 273.8 rwkw :D :D :D Now, time to grab a beer and popcorn...


Tad early in the afternoon for :beer: ...but I'll drop a six-pac in the fridge and check back later in the day..... :D I've a feeling were in for the long haul yet again.........

[solid]

Tad early in the afternoon for :beer: ...but I'll drop a six-pac in the fridge and check back later in the day..... :D I've a feeling were in for the long haul yet again.........

Yes I settled for a diet coke actually, but sadly I will miss the main event as I am working this afternoon and evening. But seriously, as far as the Maf tune was concerned, the tuner was not as experienced as I would have liked and the idle settings were terrible. Car was nearly stalling inconsistently, and the time for motor to ramp down to idle was very long. I knew Marty could come up with the goods straight away, so went and saw him. Got mafless edit done, idle perfect, ramp time nice and short and air cond idle settings beautiful.

[alexcs]

i cant see it being a long haul as long as there is no comparison.

[solid]

This is true, no real comparison. I am really just stating that I am happy with the job which has been performed, and a bit regretful of getting a package done with a tuner who has little experience with LS1's. Not wanting to get into the whole Maf/Mafless debate, but it really does beat daytime tv :D

[Tonner]

If you were to keep the different tuner bit up ya sleve for a while it would have made a good punch line, in a couple of hours :lol: :eek: :lol:

[alexcs]

yeah it would have had people going. im still interested in vz maf v mafless on a stock car by the same tuner same day :P

we know the outright answer will be mafless, but any of you who read the other ridiculously long thread will remember what i was wondering about.

[solid]

If you were to keep the different tuner bit up ya sleve for a while it would have made a good punch line, in a couple of hours :lol: :eek: :lol:

I know it would have been great to keep up the charade for a little longer ! But I was busted and exposed after the first reply :(

[jasonrouse]

what was you RWKW reading before you got the cam package?? and what other mods have u got done to your car.

Im looking at getting a similar mod. What did all the gear and tune cost you all up for the cam.

[exwrx]

No argument from me on this. If mafless works for your combination then that's great. The way it behaves is at least as important as the dyno figure.

In the interests of science it would have been interesting to see Tuna tune it with the maf in place, then go mafless, but he has a busines to run, not a scientific lab. :lol:

Good effort :)

[spiv]

From my experience it all in the tune.....Since having my 228/224 110 retuned with VCM suite by Phonsy my car drives too nice and I am going back for one of his custom grind cams (bigger) and some other niceties.....A good tuner can make or break the cars drivability and enjoyment a good tune = :D And a bad tune = :eek:

[solid]

what was you RWKW reading before you got the cam package?? and what other mods have u got done to your car.

Im looking at getting a similar mod. What did all the gear and tune cost you all up for the cam.

Drive in drive out was $3,700 but had to replace both o2 sensors :( Car has LS6 manifold and injectors, 1'7/8 difillipos, twin 2/1/2 pipes, no cats, modified twin hole air box with K&N panel filter, 6 speed with standard clutch (not for long as she's not liking this much)

Power figure before was 205 rwkw on original tuners dyno and went up to 251rwkw on theirs, martys dyno showed 257 before his tune and up to 273, so picked up 46 from original tune and extra 16 after which gives 61 rwkw in total gain.

[Hammer]

Drive in drive out was $3,700 but had to replace both o2 sensors :( Car has LS6 manifold and injectors, 1'7/8 difillipos, twin 2/1/2 pipes, no cats, modified twin hole air box with K&N panel filter, 6 speed with standard clutch (not for long as she's not liking this much)

Power figure before was 205 rwkw on original tuners dyno and went up to 251rwkw on theirs, martys dyno showed 257 before his tune and up to 273, so picked up 46 from original tune and extra 16 after which gives 61 rwkw in total gain.

it's been said numerous times... rwkw is good for a guide. the real test is from 0-400mtrs, alas take it down the strip and show us your timeslip :D

[solid]

it's been said numerous times... rwkw is good for a guide. the real test is from 0-400mtrs, alas take it down the strip and show us your timeslip :D

I couldn't agree more :D I'm certainly not glorifying my dyno figure and i'm thinking of a run down the quarter this sunday...

[Redline]

Drive in drive out was $3,700 but had to replace both o2 sensors :( Car has LS6 manifold and injectors, 1'7/8 difillipos, twin 2/1/2 pipes, no cats, modified twin hole air box with K&N panel filter, 6 speed with standard clutch (not for long as she's not liking this much)

Power figure before was 205 rwkw on original tuners dyno and went up to 251rwkw on theirs, martys dyno showed 257 before his tune and up to 273, so picked up 46 from original tune and extra 16 after which gives 61 rwkw in total gain. Why did you have to change both O2 Sensors??

[spiv]

No cats.....hope that the EPA do not catch you or you will need to sell the car to pay for the fine .... :eek:

[ROARZ]

Hmmm... Want to see Mark get his drink...

Were the O2 sensors replaced during the Mafless tune?

[Redline]

Don't think any tune would be happy with a false reading from the O2 sensors.I agree, but would it matter if they were turned off in the tune anyway?

[Diffs]

why would you turn off the O2`s

[Uncle Tone]

Just had new cam installed in my VT SS, comp cams XR281HR. Ran Maf tune first with VZ Maf sensor but unhappy with it, so went and added a little Tuna to the recipe and dropped a Mafless tune in and went from 257 to 273.8 rwkw :D :D :D Now, time to grab a beer and popcorn...

Good gains. :D Pity your maf tune was a bit of a dud, as this would have made a good comparison.

[Uncle Tone]

why would you turn off the O2`s

He he......Cool avatar.....except for the red lines, of course!! :lol:

[HRT Stroker]

ANy chance of u posting the dyno graphs from both tuners Solid.......would be interesting to see them.

[MNR-0]

Congrats on the top result. Glad you're happy. In the end, thats what counts.

I wouldn't have "bit" about the MAF thing anyway. ;)

[Martin_D]

Good to see you like it Solid.
As you now know there's real tuning, and there's real excuses......
Most tuners keep the MAF because they don't know any better, and that disgrace of a thing called the finished product in this case was a perfect stalling, pig-rooting, example.
Glad it drives like a decent car again and you can enjoy it! :cool:

[solid]

Had to replace left hand O2 sensor as fault codes showed it was shagged, and being from a maintenance background, I wont just replace one, but both at same time. Got a link to the dyno chart, showing before and after results. I am certainly happy with the gains which at the end of the day is the main thing :D

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/Solid8/Willall_dyno.jpg

[ROARZ]

Solid - did you replace the O2 sensors during the Mafless tune?

[Martin_D]

Solid clearly says that the sensors were replacede when the cam was done, and the stall-master 100 tuning was carried out.

[ROARZ]

Yes or no would have done thanks Martin.

[Martin_D]

Yes or no would have done thanks Martin.

Sorry Brett, I thought you must have been looking for some humour...as if you bothered to read the thread, the answer was in post #14. :cool:

[ROARZ]

Sorry mate. Did read the thread again before posting. Wasn't clear to me in post #14. English is not always a perfect language. The "but" in the first sentence is not necessarily inclusive. All clear now though.

[LS2.6L]

Why carry on about stupid stuff like that. This is about a guy going from a MAF cam tune to a MUFLESS cam tune. Not a high school English thing

[ratter]

Not trying to be funny, but let me clear this up, you dyno'd car as it was and got xxxxrwkw, you then put a cam in, replace a faulty o2 sensor and retune it without the maf is that correct.

If that's the case I don't think has any benefit for the MAF vs Mafless debate, because too many factors have been changed at once.
The cam change probably resulted in the bigest change to rwkw.
The old tune (whether it was good or bad) would have been next to useless with the new cam.
The faulty o2 sensor would have been effecting driveability.
Most people are expericing better gains with a mafless tune so it may have helped a bit though.

Any way the end result is pretty good, congrats

:D

[chops]

You misunderstand.

He had a cam added to his car and a MAF "tune" (from workshop X) and got 257rwkw.

Then Tuna tuned the thing properly MAFless, he made more power (273 rwkw) and now it drives like a car, not a bucking bronco!

[LS2.6L]

I might be dumb, but what I read
1) Bloke has head/cam done
2) Shop A replace O2 sensors as part of original head/cam tune
3) MAF tune runs like dog poo with new O2 sensors
4) Shop B tune the car mafless and its all good

Not hard to figure out?

[ratter]

You misunderstand.

He had a cam added to his car and a MAF "tune" (from workshop X) and got 257rwkw.

Then Tuna tuned the thing properly MAFless, he made more power (273 rwkw) and now it drives like a car, not a bucking bronco!


Sorry My bad


:D

[Redline]

I might be dumb, but what I read
1) Bloke has head/cam done
2) Shop A replace O2 sensors as part of original head/cam tune
3) MAF tune runs like dog poo with new O2 sensors
4) Shop B tune the car mafless and its all good

Not hard to figure out? Who said anything about heads ;)

[ratter]

I might be dumb, but what I read
1) Bloke has head/cam done
2) Shop A replace O2 sensors as part of original head/cam tune
3) MAF tune runs like dog poo with new O2 sensors
4) Shop B tune the car mafless and its all good

Not hard to figure out?


:lol: I guess we both made mistakes in reading it


:D

[VZLAD]

I know Solid personally..you could say we are known as the Terrible Tiga Twins over here in SA. He is NOT interested in the maff. v maffless tune debate he just wanted his car to run properly with the new cam package he had installed so he set Tuna onto his car and what ever Tuna needed to do to get it running properly Solid wasnt bothered as long as the car ran smoothly maff or maffless tuned..In the end he is very happy.
Bout time some of you guys stopped bitching on the maff or not maff tunes and realise people in the world of cars get what ever they want on thier cars to accomodate their own needs. I for one have a VCM Suite tune done by Tuna and am very happy with it for my own purposes. So hows bout we all agree to disagree and leave the tune to your own needs. :cool:

[Redline]

I know Solid personally..you could say we are known as the Terrible Tiga Twins over here in SA. He is NOT interested in the maff. v maffless tune debate he just wanted his car to run properly with the new cam package he had installed so he set Tuna onto his car and what ever Tuna needed to do to get it running properly Solid wasnt bothered as long as the car ran smoothly maff or maffless tuned..In the end he is very happy.
And thats about all 90% of modified car owners want, given they are used as daily drivers....who wants a car that uses 30L/100kms and cant idle and stalls everytime you drive it around, not me ;)
There are "tuners" and then there are "Tunas"......simple :lol:

[ROARZ]

Sorry guys. Just wanted to clear up when the O2 sensors were replaced. Of course bad O2 sensors would screw up any tune. As stated earlier on, there is no data here to compare a good maf tune to a good mafless tune. Just a happy customer from Tuna.

Thanks,
Brett

[solid]

Reading all these posts, I certainly was not wanting to begin a further maf Vs mafless debate, more than anything I am pointing out that certain tuners really dont have any idea on how to make a car run properly nor get the most out of it.

Roarz, yes the O2 sensors were changed during the first maf tune, engine light was coming on before (and after) I had the job done and fault codes showed left sensor knackered so replaced both.

As Tiga said, I wasn't concerned really either way my car was tuned, but whatever would work best for it which as it turns out was mafless :D

[ROARZ]

Agreed. Quality of the tune is key.
I wonder how it would have gone with a quality MAF tune on it, given you had the larger MAF already. That would have been interesting to know.

[solid]

Your right it would have been interesting to know Brett. I didn't want to push my luck with Marty and run a comparison on the 2 tunes, I was really just wanting to get some resolve on the tune which I now have :D

[Mongy]

more than anything I am pointing out that certain tuners really dont have any idea on how to make a car run properly nor get the most out of it.
That is the take I took on it, not the maf vs mafless side. At least with Marty you know when he has finished it will be right.

[exwrx]

Agreed thats its all in the tune, or more accurately the tuner, rather than the hardware.

One question - why get rid of the 02 sensors and cats? :confused:

[ROARZ]

Your right it would have been interesting to know Brett. I didn't want to push my luck with Marty and run a comparison on the 2 tunes, I was really just wanting to get some resolve on the tune which I now have :D

Of course. Good plan.

[solid]

Agreed thats its all in the tune, or more accurately the tuner, rather than the hardware.

One question - why get rid of the 02 sensors and cats? :confused:

I haven't gotten rid of the o2 sensors, and as far as the cats are concerned, When i modified the exhaust with new headers, just thought for it to be a good thing to do, which I now regret. I still have them in the shed and am considering re installing them. I got told by a mate who ran without cats, that he actually got more power when he re installed them. So I am not sure about this :confused: