VZ HSV owners disillusioned with LS2 on Holdens

[VZSS250]

Hi people,

some of the VZ HSV Owners in this forum seem to think that it is their birth right to have exclusive access to the LS2. They seem to think that HSV owners have always had such exclusivity. With VE approaching they are complaining about having to share a motor with us common SS folk.


Well lets not forget that Clubsports have previously only differed from the SS by having extractors and exhaust. And in fact, in VR/VS, the same Clubsport exhaust and extractors could be optioned on an SS. So much for exclusivity then.

VZ HSV owners have had it good the past 12 months with exclusive access to the 6 litre, but for those whinging about having to share the motor next year with the SS...stop whining cos thats how its always been.

[Ryzz]

Without trying to start a flaming match, there is more to it than that mate. For HSV to charge $20-30k more for the same car, where the only difference is upgraded brakes, suspensions, a HSV Badge & a different ECU Tune, people keep asking where the value for money is.

If HSV is going to share the same motor with the standard Holden range, they really should be looking to change the motor abit, ie C4B Heads, Stroker, Blown, etc. Basically make the motor significantly different to the Holden Range.

Imagine all the poor HSV Owners who recently got the VZ, they are now going to depreciate so quickly with the motor becoming so main stream.

So as you can see, its not just a matter of winging, there is actually a lot more to it, including a waste of peoples pay packets due to the massive depreciation.

[CDAA]

I think it's only natural that they feel disappointed, but on the other hand I'm sure they are intelligent enough to realize that at one point in the not to distant future, the LS2 engine was going to end up in your average Holden. It was good while it lasted however.

The forums are here for all members to voice their joy, thoughts and concerns. That's what it's all about. They wouldn’t be ‘car enthusiasts’ if they didn't get passionate about the issue, justified or not.

Anyway it’s not like HSV don’t have something better up their sleeve for the VE.

[Devil CV8]

If HSV is going to share the same motor with the standard Holden range, they really should be looking to change the motor abit, ie C4B Heads, Stroker, Blown, etc. Basically make the motor significantly different to the Holden Range.

Thats exactly right.

HSV have had exclusive use of the LS2 as it stands, and now they need to add some more value to the HSV to make it worthwhile. The problem is not with holden using the LS2, it is what will HSV do now to differentiate their LS2 powered car from the SS.

[bpm]

isnt the ls2 just and ls1 with larger bores? exclusivity?

[NickS]

It has been known for a long time that the LS1 would no longer be made, it was pretty obvious that Holden was going to have the LS2 eventually. As Devil CV8 said, HSV has always been about taking the Holden product and making it better, some see value in it, some don't. If you don't think the Clubsport has enough improvements over the SS to justify the increased price then don't buy it ... nothing has really changed here, been this way for over 10 years now !!

[Avalanche]

What is all this depreciation stuff going around??????You dont buy a car for an investment. If by some chance it goes up in value then lucky you. I actually buy a car to drive & if its only worth jack when i want to upgrade then so be it. The vehicle to me is like a tool i get the tool i want to get the job done full stop. What does every one want ???????? no new models so they can sell for what they bought at when they have had enough. If you are so worried about the resale then there is one way to fix it "dont buy".

[Danv8]

I have to agree with Avalanche's comments.
Sure resale is important but then again its not everything if you want resale value then go get a BMW or Mercedes Benz they hold their resale extreamly well. If you want something that has complete shite resale value buy any Mitsubishi or Volvo. Its a bit like saying my fiance god bless her soul is an investment.

If it has an engine or boobs its gonna cost ya. :D

Anyway I know HSV has something up their sleeves they better!. :cool:

[Hammer]

don't take this the wrong way... but i think ls2 should be hsv only .... that way it makes it a "SPECIAL VEHICLE" that way it keeps the depreciation down. I recently finally purchaced a HSV (vx II clubby to be exact) and i love it. i thin the other models should keep the ls1 and modify it to comply with the emission laws (im told thats what they are planning on doing) by a manager @ a qld dealership. People who want the LS2 will pay that "little bit extra" for the HSV and keep the hsv name going strong as being a unique car from all the other models.....

thats my thoughts anyway.

[Swordie]

I see many similarities between cars and computers. They are

- Should I wait for the next model as it will be better and quicker at the same price?
- Purchased the quickest thing now and its worth allot less in a few months time when it gets superseded.
- Purchase a more standard model that has high percentage of performance of the best model for allot less.

I see it as only natural the LS2 will be in the next model Holden and HSV’s will depreciate. The next HSV will probably more desirable than the next V8 Holden. There is demand for Holden to keep adding the latest and greatest motors to their cars.

I think most HSV owners would expect to know what will happen to their cars value in a couple of years time. It’s fair for them to air their concerns.

From my own selfish point of view it would be great to have an LS2 as an option on a base model Holden. I don't need body kits ECT. Why should I pay for things I don't want.

[Devil CV8]

don't take this the wrong way... but i think ls2 should be hsv only .... that way it makes it a "SPECIAL VEHICLE" that way it keeps the depreciation down. I recently finally purchaced a HSV (vx II clubby to be exact) and i love it. i thin the other models should keep the ls1 and modify it to comply with the emission laws (im told thats what they are planning on doing) by a manager @ a qld dealership. People who want the LS2 will pay that "little bit extra" for the HSV and keep the hsv name going strong as being a unique car from all the other models.....

thats my thoughts anyway.
The LS1 is no longer in production, so it is a bit hard to modify an engine that isn't being manufactured anymore. The LS2 has been on the cards for a couple of years now, it is just the HSV got it first, same as HSV had 250kw from the LS1 when they were first released. Holden caught up with the VZ. Now holden are getting the LS2, no surprises there. and the LS2 that holden get will be detuned when compared to the HSV (ala VT11 SS vs HSV)

[NickS]

don't take this the wrong way... but i think ls2 should be hsv only .... that way it makes it a "SPECIAL VEHICLE" that way it keeps the depreciation down. I recently finally purchaced a HSV (vx II clubby to be exact) and i love it. i thin the other models should keep the ls1 and modify it to comply with the emission laws (im told thats what they are planning on doing) by a manager @ a qld dealership. People who want the LS2 will pay that "little bit extra" for the HSV and keep the hsv name going strong as being a unique car from all the other models.....

thats my thoughts anyway.

In a way I agree with you, that would certainly be nice ... but it won't work. The cost to manufacture two different engines would make both Holdens and HSVs more expensive. You will still be able to modify an LS1 SS to be more powerful / faster than an HSV. As time goes on the Holdens catch up anyway. Your VX II Clubby came out with 255 kw, a VZ SS has 250 kw and a Monaro has 260 kw, and thats in less than 4 years.

I don't think outright performance is the only reason people buy HSVs, it is the whole package, the performance, the looks, the interiors and the status. It has always been and will probably always be possible to make a Holden faster, much faster, than an HSV. HSV will continue to make the current model of their cars better the current Holdens, but they can't stay that way forever ... bit ridiculous I know but it's kind of like saying Holden can't use leather interiors and climate control because HSV has that.

Anyway, I get where your coming from and honestly would be quite happy if it became reality, but I can also see why it never will and can be OK with that.

[Ron]

What about the poor blokes that forked out $60,000 for a HSV with the old Holden stroker in early 1999 and in the later half of the year see an ss with the same power for $20,000 less. I think that for all the extra money you pay HSV should have a definate performance advantage , after all thats what we are looking for when buying the HSV product

[PepeLePew]

I dont see the issue. Did Holden jack up the prices on the LS2 HSV's? Hardly. People were still paying almost the same for the LS1 HSV's.

And Im sure current VZ owners were fully aware when purchasing the 'exclusivity' wouldnt last regardless.

But I'd still rather have one over the general Holden offerings, if I could afford one!

[kompiler]

I must have missed a few threads...where are all these VZ HSV owners whinging about the inevitable LS2 trickle down?

[VOGUE]

guys get over it what about the poor guys who folk out a lot of money for the vt gts 220 kw.how do you think they felt when vt series 2 come out with 220kw thats life look at me ive got a vyr8 series1 paid 70k for it and struggling to get 45k for it any car deppricates doesnt matter what it is sorry if the truth hurts regards gary ( vogue )

[VHSLE]

don't take this the wrong way... but i think ls2 should be hsv only .... that way it makes it a "SPECIAL VEHICLE" that way it keeps the depreciation down. I recently finally purchaced a HSV (vx II clubby to be exact) and i love it. i thin the other models should keep the ls1 and modify it to comply with the emission laws (im told thats what they are planning on doing) by a manager @ a qld dealership. People who want the LS2 will pay that "little bit extra" for the HSV and keep the hsv name going strong as being a unique car from all the other models.....

thats my thoughts anyway.

[Post Deleted]

Sorry, point had already been made .

[VZSS250]

I must have missed a few threads...where are all these VZ HSV owners whinging about the inevitable LS2 trickle down?

See the thread about the VE preview in Motor. Anyways, just trying to raise discussion.

And again just a reminder that the VR-VS SS engine could be upgraded to Clubsport spec for less than $2,000. There was no exclusivity for Clubsport owners then.

[bigdongers]

HSV doesnt need an exclusive engine to remain exclusive. As others have already stated, people buy HSVs for the entire package. Thats looks, performance, comfort and prestige. No matter how many mods you put into an SS, you will never get the prestige or respect on the road that you will get with an HSV.

[kompiler]

See the thread about the VE preview in Motor. Anyways, just trying to raise discussion.


Fair enough. I didn't mean it in a critical way.
I'm interested to see why some think this way? Its a somewhat antiquated way of thinking. With the exception of the C4B engine, the drivetrains have always trickled down (as far as I remember).

[Justice R8]

HSV doesnt need an exclusive engine to remain exclusive. As others have already stated, people buy HSVs for the entire package. Thats looks, performance, comfort and prestige. No matter how many mods you put into an SS, you will never get the prestige or respect on the road that you will get with an HSV.

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:

[VRIIClubby]

And again just a reminder that the VR-VS SS engine could be upgraded to Clubsport spec for less than $2,000. There was no exclusivity for Clubsport owners then.

Are you saying im not exclusive???? :( :eek:


All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D

;) ;)

[seldo]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:
Well, that makes me a wanker... but you already knew that... :D
But I'm not too sure about the "never see full throttle" bit...;) I wouldn't quite agree with your take on the attitude either but at the same time the blokes with an "S" pack thumb their noses at those with Execs, and the SSs ditto the "S" packs and the Execs, and the Berlinas ditto etc. So I wouldn't say that the ranking thing is restricted just to us HSV wankers. You should see what the blokes with Execs do to the poor ricers in their Excels...:shock: :) And aaanywaayy, I'll just go and get a biggger one so theeerrree....:lol:

[exploder]

Or the glass half full way of thinking may be.

More LS2s out there means more people will mod them, which widens the amount of data you can collect before you mod your own LS2...

[Danv8]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D .


LOL
well could use one of these http://www.wweek.com/photos/2833/culture12.jpg

Or drive a HSV.

I guess the later would be less painful. :lol:

[VooDoo]

How about all the SS/HSV owners that get owned by a 2 tonne barge. Think how the ford boys feel buying a GTP etc and getting owned by a berlina.

There is more to HSV than the engine. As many have said its the complete package. If you modded a car to the same spec you would have no warranty. For some owning a special vehicle is the experiance of being the select few that will achieve it. For every HSV owner there are 10 that wish they were. Performance is only one small aspect the experiance. If all HSV owners cared about was performance and the engine they would all own ferrari's.

Ive not seen one VZ HSV owner complain about the LS2 in the new range. It was expected in the VE and even in the VZII. Nobody really thought it wasnt going to happen. What choices did Holden have?? V6 only in the VE and LS2 V8's for the HSV only?? I think not.

As Frank says, suck it up and stop being a cry baby :stick:

[NickS]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:

You only just realised this ??? :lol:

[Brendan]

If they want exclusivity and resale for HSVs then tell HSV not to sell so many.

Going back to the olden days, how many Brocks were sold (yes I know HDT but same thing) compared to how many Clubbies are pumped out the door at Clayton these days. Several hundred v several thousand today. That's why HSVs aren't exclusive any more.

[HacketR8]

I must have missed a few threads...where are all these VZ HSV owners whinging about the inevitable LS2 trickle down?

I agree with Kompiler, I own a VZ LS2 and I'm not complaining. Where's the tread? :confused:

[goofafidamedes]

It's not like this is the first time HSV/Holden have done this. If you bought a VZ with the expectation that the LS2 would not make into a production Holden within the next couple of years then you didnt do your research on Holden's behaviour in the past.

Why have a sook when the bloke in the SS is paying about only about $10k less (retail) Think about it, you've got a HSV with a stonking engine, brakes that will pull the car up repeatedly, more sorted suspension, bodykit that looks fairly mean... etc etc. The SS only has the engine when compared to most HSV's.

If you bought a HSV, and are happy with it slash not looking to get rid of it, then why complain. If your intention is upgrade every couple of cycles, then this is the game you play. Spin the depreciation.


[snip]

As Frank says, suck it up and stop being a cry baby :stick:

Word.

[Gto_255]

I have been hearing that Hsv will stroke the LS2 to 6.2 litres to keep their engines 'superior' to holden. So they should.

[vkgpa]

I see many similarities between cars and computers. They are

- Should I wait for the next model as it will be better and quicker at the same price?
- Purchased the quickest thing now and its worth allot less in a few months time when it gets superseded.
- Purchase a more standard model that has high percentage of performance of the best model for allot less.

I see it as only natural the LS2 will be in the next model Holden and HSV’s will depreciate. The next HSV will probably more desirable than the next V8 Holden. There is demand for Holden to keep adding the latest and greatest motors to their cars.

I think most HSV owners would expect to know what will happen to their cars value in a couple of years time. It’s fair for them to air their concerns.

From my own selfish point of view it would be great to have an LS2 as an option on a base model Holden. I don't need body kits ECT. Why should I pay for things I don't want.
i agree with you
you cant stop depreciation and new models come outevery couple of years

thats why i brought a vt11 cluby a couple of mates were saying vx looks better but i couldnt justify the extra $$ for not much extra compared to the vt!
where do you stop vy is better again! vz ups the standard you get what i mean again thats life they have to give people something extra to conider buying their product..

[jbernie]

Should HSV only have the LS2? hmm.... well when the LS1 is officially dead there is an issue for sure. Maybe the LS4 will be used? It should be able to do the current numbers of the LS1 and is used in FWD cars here in the USA now.

My problem with the LS2 for Holden, is the unofficial agreement for the Aussie cars to not go over 300kw. I just can't see how HSV & FPV can stay at basically 300kw Max and no more, the regular v6's and v8's are catching up and soon you hit a point where the power can't increase because the performance vehicles will be equal to the stock V8s.

HSV and FPV are both pussy footing around, we all know they can go well over 300kw if they wanted, but if/when they do the usual suspects will complain about them being irresponsible etc etc. I think if you are paying $70k+ for a car it is out of the reach of the average on road lunatic driver and serious performance should be allowed and given HSVs desire for some limited numbers of production a 100 car run of a 350 or 400kw car should be ok.

Holden should do the LS2 but I would expect HSV to do a minimum 325kw engine to get it exclusive enough from the Holden variant when both are in the stock configuration. The avg Joe won't mod his car and you guys aren't average :)

James

[WHLS1]

More to a HSV than an engine - I bought a runout VYII R8 whilst having a pretty good idea that the LS2 would be out in another month or so (runout prices are great for depreciation/trade in and a tune has put me at 240 rwkw). That said I would expect HSV to offer a power advantage over the std Holden offerings. Before LS1 edit and the like became common place, HSV had an advantage with the LS1. Currently no LS2 edit is available (happy to be proven wrong as will no doubt a lot of other people on this forum) and until one becomes available HSV should be able to offer a power advantage with their version of the LS2.


"All HSV owners are wankers anyway" - no wonder my wife wont drive my car - doesn't want someone to think she owns it!

[PeterS]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:

Um, the HSV is owned by the wife :)
Do you want to tell her that she is a wanker :lol: (be very afraid of middle aged women). She wants more power, I really have no idea why, so the next port of call is Sams. I'll point you out to her if you like :)

I drive a Hiace.

Cheers

[RED R8]

The only way I could see a fix for HSV is if the VE HSV range shared the same LS2 as a VE SS bar a few more KW's then the price of the HSV should be closer to the SS so for say another 10k you get better brakes seats body kit etc you might justify it but for 20-30k extra I would expect something exclusive in the motor dept but i am sure HSV are well aware of this.The sooner the VZ ls2 depreciates the sooner I can get one.

[Oldmonroman]

Don't worry the Next clubsport will have a LS6, Don't worry the Next clubsports, will have the LS7, don't worry the the next clubsports will have a LS7 with cylinders by displacement, don't worry??? hummm. $$$$$$$$.

[PJK]

I think HSV owners are getting a pretty good deal just based on price alone when you look at what you get for the money. A Clubsport is about 11K more than an SS but for that 11k you get afair bit of kit

19" Wheels
Bigger brakes
Better Suspension
Full body kit painted and fitted
Different interior trim
Full stainless twin exhaust
LS2 and unique drivetrain including diff gears
Plus the fact the car is produced in low volume

Just to name a few, so based on that, you're not really paying too much for the exclusivity that comes with an HSV. You're really just paying for the extra gear.

[C4B]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:

Ironically, what you say is very close to the truth. I was in the HSV owners club a few years back, and the majority of members thought they were better than everyone else. If you asked them, they'd tell you that their HSV was a real alternative to a BMW or Merc (wank city!).

Sadly it's not just the HSV owners who are wankers, you see a lot of SV8 / SS owners think that once they fit a set of extractors, and get a tune, that they're V8 executive is suddenly a HSV....

Face it, all LS1 owners are wankers..... ;) ;) ;)

[mr coupe4]

I am confident that i will regret this, by gee who cares :)

Three years ago i brought a VX II senator for $87,000 and treated it like a baby (other than how I drove it !) Moified the motor, had 337 Hp at the rears and traded it looking better than brand new with 50,000ks on the clock traded it for $ 41,000.

At the same time as I brought it I paid $45,000 for my wifes VXII SS mod the motor 305HP at the rears and traded it for $ 35,000 with 60,000 on the clock.

In Jan bought a coupe 4 and by the time I had finished with the options spent close enough to 100 grand that it wasnt worth worrying.

Beofre I brought it though i promissed myself and the wife I would look at everything I could afford, Audi, Merc, BMW, VW they all got a drive. Came home sat down and tried to rationalise why I would take another bloody hiding on buying a HSV knowing dam well that in 2 years or so i would have lost 50 grand - again !.

Well its like this. When you drive it , it has nothing to do with power. Every male kid in Australia grows up wanting one. When you drive it heads turn, total strangers give you thumbs up and even people who dont like cars like them, and you smile, bloody lots :lol: .

Thats why most of us drive HSV - as they say I just want one.

HSV drivers are no better than anyone else on this site, we are probably a bit more stupid with how wisely we use our money but I can bet anything you like that when we pull up at the lights next to a non HSV nice set of wheels we are looking at much at your car as you are at ours. Why, cause we all like cars and all respect that it is a boy thing.

One other thing, if we could afford a Ferrari, SL 55 AMG or lambo we would probably have one instead.

[The Warden]

It has been known for a long time that the LS1 would no longer be made, it was pretty obvious that Holden was going to have the LS2 eventually. As Devil CV8 said, HSV has always been about taking the Holden product and making it better, some see value in it, some don't. If you don't think the Clubsport has enough improvements over the SS to justify the increased price then don't buy it ... nothing has really changed here, been this way for over 10 years now !!

Exactly correct Nick S.

I've had three new HSV's, the one I'vve got now is the only one with a different engine from the current Holden......and it's the best one, and you carpet munchers haven't got one (hey Justice :p ) Bloodly difficult typing this one handed you know :D

Q: Why do most of the LS1 owners in this thread appear to be disillusioned in thinking that their car is somehow exempt from this HUGE depreciation that is going to bankrupt present LS2 owners.... hey folks, it's nice to dream isn't it?

Cheers,

Gordie

[Animal]

If they want exclusivity and resale for HSVs then tell HSV not to sell so many.

Going back to the olden days, how many Brocks were sold (yes I know HDT but same thing) compared to how many Clubbies are pumped out the door at Clayton these days. Several hundred v several thousand today. That's why HSVs aren't exclusive any more.

Clarity is a rare sight here, thanks for stating it Brendan

Buy a HSV - buy a badge

HSV - special my ass


More to a HSV than an engine - I bought a runout VYII R8 ( trade in and a tune has put me at 240 rwkw)

Why you should buy a HSV and THEN also pay for a tune to get the extra RWKW is still beyond me.

I have a new marketing slogan for HSV

" A fool and their money are easily parted " :)

[Justice R8]

Exactly correct Nick S.

I've had three new HSV's, the one I'vve got now is the only one with a different engine from the current Holden......and it's the best one, and you carpet munchers haven't got one (hey Justice :p ) Bloodly difficult typing this one handed you know :D

Q: Why do most of the LS1 owners in this thread appear to be disillusioned in thinking that their car is somehow exempt from this HUGE depreciation that is going to bankrupt present LS2 owners.... hey folks, it's nice to dream isn't it?

Cheers,

Gordie

They say Once bitten twice shy. Three times wow, They dont even have a name for that. It really must be hard typing with one hand there Gordie :lol: . Do you walk into the dealer like this :booty: saying give it too me baby :p

[gameover]

Should HSV only have the LS2? hmm.... well when the LS1 is officially dead there is an issue for sure. Maybe the LS4 will be used? It should be able to do the current numbers of the LS1 and is used in FWD cars here in the USA now.

My problem with the LS2 for Holden, is the unofficial agreement for the Aussie cars to not go over 300kw. I just can't see how HSV & FPV can stay at basically 300kw Max and no more, the regular v6's and v8's are catching up and soon you hit a point where the power can't increase because the performance vehicles will be equal to the stock V8s.

HSV and FPV are both pussy footing around, we all know they can go well over 300kw if they wanted, but if/when they do the usual suspects will complain about them being irresponsible etc etc. I think if you are paying $70k+ for a car it is out of the reach of the average on road lunatic driver and serious performance should be allowed and given HSVs desire for some limited numbers of production a 100 car run of a 350 or 400kw car should be ok.

Holden should do the LS2 but I would expect HSV to do a minimum 325kw engine to get it exclusive enough from the Holden variant when both are in the stock configuration. The avg Joe won't mod his car and you guys aren't average :)

James

i think the current 297 must have been voted on in Victoria, 3 under the magic 300... however, the dyno would suggest that 297 is not all that accurate. What would all those GTS owners think if the lowly R8 brigade had more grunt and HSV had the gall to put a badge reflecting that on the car? :stick:

[Justice R8]

i think the current 297 must have been voted on in Victoria, 3 under the magic 300... however, the dyno would suggest that 297 is not all that accurate. What would all those GTS owners think if the lowly R8 brigade had more grunt and HSV had the gall to put a badge reflecting that on the car? :stick:

If they had done that Uncle tone would have been in all his glory bragging Mafs are the way to go.

HSV = Great marketing, comfier seat and great wank factor thats it.

[crisso]

Hi people,

some of the VZ HSV Owners in this forum seem to think that it is their birth right to have exclusive access to the LS2. They seem to think that HSV owners have always had such exclusivity. With VE approaching they are complaining about having to share a motor with us common SS folk.


Well lets not forget that Clubsports have previously only differed from the SS by having extractors and exhaust. And in fact, in VR/VS, the same Clubsport exhaust and extractors could be optioned on an SS. So much for exclusivity then.

VZ HSV owners have had it good the past 12 months with exclusive access to the 6 litre, but for those whinging about having to share the motor next year with the SS...stop whining cos thats how its always been.

No whinging from me, I am driving my LS2 right now and loving every second of it!

This thread really has an 'us and them' feel to it, shame that! What we should be concentrating on is that with more LS2's around, the mods are going to become somewhat mainstream and hopefully more affordable.

One question - Will Holden release their SS with the LS2 @ 297kw? I doubt it, I think the power figure will be closer to the 260-270kw mark, hence, stock, will still be less than the HSV.

[VooDoo]

Looking through this thread there seems to be 1 person disiilusioned and heaps that knew full well the LS2 was coming for the VE. A bit of research prior to buying is always a good thing if it concerns you. Im sure VZ HSV's will still sell even after this announcment. It wasnt exactly a secret though.

[Justice R8]

No whinging from me, I am driving my LS2 right now and loving every second of it!

The question - Will Holden release their SS with the LS2 @ 297kw? I doubt it, I think the power figure will be closer to the 260-270kw mark, hence, stock, will still be less than the HSV.

To do that they will have to sell it with only 7 spark plug leads :lol: Imagine all the new VE driving around with 2 degrees of timing.

Put a Unichip on it and your away :lol: :lol: (just kidding Chris)

99% of HSV owners dont care if it has 180rwkw as long as it has a badge,
HSV, and some overpriced plastic bits to slow it down, hence the torque increase with LS2 to pull the barge assed HSV's along with a boat on the back

[crisso]

Put a Unichip on it and your away :lol: :lol:


ahh bugger it, why not just Twin Turbo the mofo and be done with it???!!! :)

[crisso]

To do that they will have to sell it with only 7 spark plug leads :lol: Imagine all the new VE driving around with 2 degrees of timing.


from the other thread

http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/NickS/File0021.jpg

The headline states that the VE wont have 297kw...???

[HacketR8]

Unfortunately, Justice you seem to be the minority here. I think it is unfortunate that a "Premium Sponsor" who probably does quite well out of this forum feels he has to get on line an cause so much discent amongst a group of boys and girls that have one thing in common, a love of V8's and letting the world know. The fact the forum has subscribers for the US and the UK proves it has credability. The thread is titled "VZ HSV Owners disilusioned with LS2 on Holden", please note we are not disillisioned one little bit and if I am a wanker then so be it, research states that 90% of the global male population admit to bening wankers, the other 10% lie about it. I am at least honest about it and if my HSV is an extension of my P....s, then so be it, I am getting old and can do with all the help I can get. Frankly I do not give a Rat rear end if you or anyone else on this planet thinks I am a wanker. I drive a HSV, pay for the privlidge and frankly the only person disillusioned with the LS2 seems to be you. Feel free to burn me up, I am old an can take it and always have enjoyed a good laugh. :lol: :lol: :p :D Go for but but at the end of the day I drive a HSV and I am proud of it.

Enjoy life, it too darn short..................

[YCV8]

Anyone who buys a Commodore variant now and thinks it is gonna be the most valuable and most powerful model ever is being quite naive. Everyone knew when the LS2 was released that it was eventually gonna find it's way into the standard range. When I bought my Series III Monaro at 245kw, I knew that the world being the world, the next model Monaro, ala VZ was gonna have more power like every other model advancement. 260kw, funny that!... and better brakes and better exhaust etc etc. There are some obvious facts pretty much summarised by everyone on this thread.

1) 99% of cars will depreciate
2) next year there will be a better equiped, faster and more powerful model than you just bought, and at the same price you paid for yours.
3) HSV have more to them than just KW, they have better brakes, interior, looks (personal taste of course).
4) Yes the HSV LS2 guys may be unhappy about it, but no more than current SS, SV8, Executive VZ LS1 owners when the LS2 SS, SV8 etc come out... even less than the GTS owner who forked out $100,000 for his or her 300kw when the 297kw $60,000 Clubsport came out. And the 5.0L VT1 v LS1 VT2.
5) The VM/VW/VD/VO/VI/VJ/VG/VA commodores will probably have more power than the VE, whether SS, SV8 or HSV.
6) That HSV is a business, and to sell cars in the future they will continue to make them attarctive to the potential buyer, however they do that... 6.2L LS2, LS4, Supercharge the lot (ala PWR).
7) LS1 cease production at the end of this year...it's LS2 or nothing so it had to happen and was probably forcasted a good 3-5 years ago.
8) They are all great cars and motors.

I'm sure they will all get over it and have been enjoying that awesome performance yesterday, today and right through to 2006 when the VE is released. And I guarantee you that when the 6.2L HSVs a borne (if they do) that there will still be people willing to buy a standard LS2 HSV at a greatly discounted price.

Hey they can always trade their depreciated HSV for a 297kw (or 270kw whatever ends up) SV8.

In the end it's no different to the SV8 and SS story. Same power, $10,000 difference.

[Justice R8]

from the other thread

http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/NickS/File0021.jpg

The headline states that the VE wont have 297kw...???

OK you win. They will have 296.9kw

[vxcalaiszzz]

I have been hearing that Hsv will stroke the LS2 to 6.2 litres to keep their engines 'superior' to holden. So they should.

And what about the supercharger HSV have been testing. Is this still expected to go ahead as an option exclusive to HSV?

[dark]

Unfortunately, Justice you seem to be the minority here. I think it is unfortunate that a "Premium Sponsor" who probably does quite well out of this forum feels he has to get on line an cause so much discent amongst a group of boys and girls that have one thing in common, a love of V8's and letting the world know. The fact the forum has subscribers for the US and the UK proves it has credability. The thread is titled "VZ HSV Owners disilusioned with LS2 on Holden", please note we are not disillisioned one little bit and if I am a wanker then so be it, research states that 90% of the global male population admit to bening wankers, the other 10% lie about it. I am at least honest about it and if my HSV is an extension of my P....s, then so be it, I am getting old and can do with all the help I can get. Frankly I do not give a Rat rear end if you or anyone else on this planet thinks I am a wanker. I drive a HSV, pay for the privlidge and frankly the only person disillusioned with the LS2 seems to be you. Feel free to burn me up, I am old an can take it and always have enjoyed a good laugh. :lol: :lol: :p :D Go for but but at the end of the day I drive a HSV and I am proud of it.

Enjoy life, it too darn short..................

I agree completely, I do not know why a premium sponsor would want to throw sh*t on people who love their cars, I gather when a HSV owner comes to his business he tells the owner he is wanker, I do not think so. I assume that most of us here love our cars, I would never throw sh*t on anyone on this forum just because they drive a LS1 or a LS2 AND it is not a HSV. I have never read a thread from a HSV owner that throws crap on people because the have not got a HSV, yet the reverse does not seem true. I have learnt heaps from everyone here and I hope some have learnt from some threads I have posted. That's what I come on here for, not to throw sh*t at people, who they have never met, just because they own a HSV.

[VooDoo]

woah, take some chill pills guys. I re-read Justices posts and other than some shitstirring there was no malice in any of his posts, nor was he one of the "dis-illusioned". He is right in most respects. HSV owners can be arrogant, many dont give a shit what the power output is except that it has to be more than the last one and more than Ford. I too have had dealing with HSV clubs and in my experiance they can be wankers. Just because a particular group of ppl are proud to own a specfic brand of car and act high and mighty because of it doesnt make them all arrogant wankers but it sure does make some of them that way. If they are... who cares. Let em be proud. Justice wasnt throwing shit on ppl. He was laughing at the sillyness of this whole thread. 99% of ppl on this forum knew the LS2 was coming for the VE and if they didnt, then they havent read all the thread. Go re-read his posts.

I think they are pissed because they didnt research their purchase properly, not because the LS2 isnt a HSV only option anymore.

[LSX-438]

what is this argument about again?

Holden will probably sell 4x as many LS2's versus HSV, who has more right to use it.. um just maybe HSV should be thanking Holden/GM not the other way around.

having said that it makes sense for HSV to have more power, duh.

It doesnt follow they need to be distinct engines, i really dont get this argument.

[seldo]

........................
Well its like this. When you drive it , it has nothing to do with power. Every male kid in Australia grows up wanting one. When you drive it heads turn, total strangers give you thumbs up and even people who dont like cars like them, and you smile, bloody lots :lol: ..................

Thats why most of us drive HSV - as they say I just want one....................

.
What a damn good post :thumbsup: But very close to the truth...After all...it's only money..:) There's no pockets in a shroud.....;)

[plonkerchops]

I agree completely, I do not know why a premium sponsor would want to throw sh*t on people who love their cars, I gather when a HSV owner comes to his business he tells the owner he is wanker, I do not think so. I assume that most of us here love our cars, I would never throw sh*t on anyone on this forum just because they drive a LS1 or a LS2 AND it is not a HSV. I have never read a thread from a HSV owner that throws crap on people because the have not got a HSV, yet the reverse does not seem true. I have learnt heaps from everyone here and I hope some have learnt from some threads I have posted. That's what I come on here for, not to throw sh*t at people, who they have never met, just because they own a HSV.

The beige cardigan brigade is out in force, FFS go and get a bloody blowjob & loosen up :eyes:
Obtuse humour isnt your forte'....................obviously............... :rolleyes:

[Justice R8]

Unfortunately, Justice you seem to be the minority here. I think it is unfortunate that a "Premium Sponsor" who probably does quite well out of this forum feels he has to get on line an cause so much discent amongst a group of boys and girls that have one thing in common, a love of V8's and letting the world know. The fact the forum has subscribers for the US and the UK proves it has credability. The thread is titled "VZ HSV Owners disilusioned with LS2 on Holden", please note we are not disillisioned one little bit and if I am a wanker then so be it, research states that 90% of the global male population admit to bening wankers, the other 10% lie about it. I am at least honest about it and if my HSV is an extension of my P....s, then so be it, I am getting old and can do with all the help I can get. Frankly I do not give a Rat rear end if you or anyone else on this planet thinks I am a wanker. I drive a HSV, pay for the privlidge and frankly the only person disillusioned with the LS2 seems to be you. Feel free to burn me up, I am old an can take it and always have enjoyed a good laugh. :lol: :lol: :p :D Go for but but at the end of the day I drive a HSV and I am proud of it.

Enjoy life, it too darn short..................

Firstly I am not a sponsor. I am a moderator of a Sponsors Forum which means it says I am premium sponsor due to me moderating it.

Voodoo was spot on. I am stirring boys
And for the record I must be a triple wanker as I have 3 of them :D
1 VX R8 412 ci 509 rwhp My car
2. GTO coupe 383ci Blown 620rwhp Girlfriends car
3. VX clubsport TBC rwhp

Why do I have them.
1. The extra cash didnt bother me
2. I thought a lot better value ( my VX is still worth 30 k all day) so it has cost me 30 k for 4 years luxury driving
3. A lot better service at my dealer when it was new
4. and a lot better car than any SS or SV8
5. yep its a status symbol I dont know why they are but people that see them love them

Do I care that it weighs more, not at all, I put more power in. Do I care that it has the same engine as every other commodore from the factory, not at all but it has been interesting to get a bit of emotion into the is thread though.

Personally I think it is personal preference and financial situation that dictates whether somebody buys a HSV or not and most Holden fans would love one. Would I buy a GTS Certainly not. That I do feel is way overpriced. Do I think that the LS2 owners are upset, not at all. They are all enjoying there cars. I have even thought about having a look at the one posted on the forum for 49k 2004 model. Why would anybody buy an SS when something like that is available no matter what date is on it.

PS I am also a member of the HSV club and if any of the boys there read this they will kill me :bash: :bash: :bash:

[HacketR8]

Firstly I am not a sponsor. I am a moderator of a Sponsors Forum which means it says I am premium sponsor due to me moderating it.

Voodoo was spot on. I am stirring boys
And for the record I must be a triple wanker as I have 3 of them :D
1 VX R8 412 ci 509 rwhp My car
2. GTO coupe 383ci Blown 620rwhp Girlfriends car
3. VX clubsport TBC rwhp

Why do I have them.
1. The extra cash didnt bother me
2. I thought a lot better value ( my VX is still worth 30 k all day) so it has cost me 30 k for 4 years luxury driving
3. A lot better service at my dealer when it was new
4. and a lot better car than any SS or SV8
5. yep its a status symbol I dont know why they are but people that see them love them

Do I care that it weighs more, not at all, I put more power in. Do I care that it has the same engine as every other commodore from the factory, not at all but it has been interesting to get a bit of emotion into the is thread though.

Personally I think it is personal preference and financial situation that dictates whether somebody buys a HSV or not and most Holden fans would love one. Would I buy a GTS Certainly not. That I do feel is way overpriced. Do I think that the LS2 owners are upset, not at all. They are all enjoying there cars. I have even thought about having a look at the one posted on the forum for 49k 2004 model. Why would anybody buy an SS when something like that is available no matter what date is on it.

PS I am also a member of the HSV club and if any of the boys there read this they will kill me :bash: :bash: :bash:

Justice, Good wind up, I bit must be getting too sensitive in my old age, not the only one though, obvously. I will take all future wind ups from you with a pinch of salt.

I'am wanker and proud of it.

[VooDoo]

We are all either wankers or wannabe's :stick:

hahaha

[kompiler]

woah, take some chill pills guys. I re-read Justices posts and other than some shitstirring there was no malice in any of his posts, nor was he one of the "dis-illusioned". He is right in most respects. HSV owners can be arrogant, many dont give a shit what the power output is except that it has to be more than the last one and more than Ford. I too have had dealing with HSV clubs and in my experiance they can be wankers. Just because a particular group of ppl are proud to own a specfic brand of car and act high and mighty because of it doesnt make them all arrogant wankers but it sure does make some of them that way. If they are... who cares. Let em be proud. Justice wasnt throwing shit on ppl. He was laughing at the sillyness of this whole thread. 99% of ppl on this forum knew the LS2 was coming for the VE and if they didnt, then they havent read all the thread. Go re-read his posts.

I think they are pissed because they didnt research their purchase properly, not because the LS2 isnt a HSV only option anymore.

Err.....ok

Somehow this thread has gone from a post regarding a claim that has no substance to nothing short of discrimination and vilification against HSV owners.

The topic here was that VZ HSV owners are upset by the fact that Holdens are to receive the LS2 in the VE series. Firstly where are all these users that are screaming unjust treatment?? As stated a million times today, the fact that LS1s were being discontinued has been known for some time. I fail to find any posts containing users working themselves up over this fact.

But more to the point, how on earth has the thread sunk so low to become nothing more than a "mines bigger than yours" affair?

Sure HSV owners can be arrogant, so can SS owners, CV8 owners and WHII Caprice owners ( not to mention the Excel owner next door ).

In all the above posts, no HSV owner has stood up on their soapbox and decreed that all non-HSV owners are some kind of lower life-forms. Completely the opposite in fact. It seems that all the non-owners are tarring us with the one brush. It would be easy to say that perhaps these people are envious, but the fact is that many could have afforded a HSV if thats what they wanted. Each to their own I say. We all work hard for our money and no one likes being criticised on how best to spend it.

Its a shame that I must therefore fall into this quote ["arrogant wankers"] unquote club. I enjoy reading the wide variety of informative posts on this site, and have done for more than 3 years, but its dishearening to read this kind of stuff.

I'm sure people dont mean half the stuff they say, but hey, i'm tring to fight the good fight.

[wasssup]

I joined this form because it seemed to have some good reading in it.

I tend to ignore forums in general due to the banter on the internet, and everyone being an 'expert', but ls1.com.au did seem different. I have only been reading ls1.com.au for the past 2 months or so. originally found by accident looking for reviews on the LS2 prior to buying one, and have enjoyed the amount of information available on this site.

Reading about people bitching and whinging and throwing arguments back and forth is just not much of a good read.

[The Warden]

( my VX is still worth 30 k all day)

What????, no extra $2k margin for all them go faster stickers?????

Man, that sucks big time bro.... :D

Guys, don't take it so seriously, anyone that's been on the forum for more than 5 minutes would have (should have) known Justice was doing a bit of Friday night fishing.....

For the record my last deal went like this '03 VY 1 clubbie 22km stock, on a Nov '04 VZ clubbie demo with 1600km on the clock = $14.5k $NZD change over.

I thought it was pretty good, but them I'm a mug, I took delivery on 31 Dec 2004 :stupid:

Cheers,

Gordie

[ED]

HSV................................Who needs one? Bring back the poverty pack exec I reckon. :D hey ive got one. Sticker I used to have on the back of my car until I offended a mate of mine " HSV I dont need one". Poor fella just couldnt see the funny side of it. Are they worth the extra moulin rouge over an SS? Yes and No, depends on as Justice says, how much money you have, and, at the end of the day, how you want to spend your own money. Me being the thrifty tight ass that I am couldnt see the cents (two meanings wow) in buying one. House and business was more important. And dont really like body kits and the like, prefer the sleeper look. Each to their own hey. Anyhow including purchase price of the car, have only spent just over 40 big ones and I have something that scares Porsches and the majority of other big dollar wagons that cruise around up here with their noses in the air and white gloves on...........

LS2 is inebbittaball, innebbitabull, inebittttaboll................................... coming soon. :lol:

[PepeLePew]

Cant believe what I was reading as entertaining yesterday has turned into such a one way bitch fest.

Guys, as has been said above, reread the posts. When a guy like Justice (obviously a close relative of Tuna) posts stuff like that, and you know hes got three of the bloody things, read it with a smile on your face.

Or perhaps hes' hit a nerve :) Whether anyone likes it or not, some people have that perception of HSV owners, and yes, perhaps its a 'chip on the shoulder' type thing. MAYBE. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Im not sure Darren actually HAS that opinion or he'd be getting up in the mornings saying three hail wankers every day.

RELAX... :cool:

[VooDoo]

http://voodoo.theddrzone.com/images/lol/have_a_cookie.gif

[Cat755]

http://voodoo.theddrzone.com/images/lol/have_a_cookie.gif

Do I get a glass of milk with that :D

[seldo]

Justice must be cacking himself :lol: This is better than throwing berly to bait-fish! Justice just threw in a short-fused hand-grenade and stood back and waited for the ruckus :lol:
Fellow HSV wankers - don't bite...you know they are only jealous..hehe ;) ....thinks.....I might start another thread about the guys with Execs, S's, SS's etc who spend a squillion on them in the hope that they might grow into an HSV...Soorrrry! All you end up with is a quicker Exec or SS and ....speaking of depreciation - it deprecaites at least as quickly, if not quicker than an unmodified car, plus when time comes to sell it you tear up all the mods and flush them down the toilet...Any dealer will tell you that a modded car is worth less than the same thing standard.......There...that should do it....stands back behind flame-shield ;)

[RED R8]

H..eaps more expensive S..eldom any quiker V..ehicle

[WHLS1]

A most enjoyable read.

I can't believe how seriously some people have taken this thread. We need a new rating - "Most entertaining sh#t stir". :D

[NickS]

Why do I have them.
1. The extra cash didnt bother me
2. I thought a lot better value ( my VX is still worth 30 k all day) so it has cost me 30 k for 4 years luxury driving
3. A lot better service at my dealer when it was new
4. and a lot better car than any SS or SV8
5. yep its a status symbol I dont know why they are but people that see them love them

Do I care that it weighs more, not at all, I put more power in. Do I care that it has the same engine as every other commodore from the factory, not at all but it has been interesting to get a bit of emotion into the is thread though.

Personally I think it is personal preference and financial situation that dictates whether somebody buys a HSV or not and most Holden fans would love one. Would I buy a GTS Certainly not. That I do feel is way overpriced. Do I think that the LS2 owners are upset, not at all. They are all enjoying there cars. I have even thought about having a look at the one posted on the forum for 49k 2004 model. Why would anybody buy an SS when something like that is available no matter what date is on it.

PS I am also a member of the HSV club and if any of the boys there read this they will kill me :bash: :bash: :bash:

Justice ... you are a funny bastard. It's funny how so many people need others to tell them that they have got a great car and didn't spend too much money. If you are happy with your drive then who gives a rats what anyone else thinks!! Again, thanks Justice, that was fun :lol:

[Hammer]

Justice ... you are a funny bastard. It's funny how so many people need others to tell them that they have got a great car and didn't spend too much money. If you are happy with your drive then who gives a rats what anyone else thinks!! Again, thanks Justice, that was fun :lol:

agreed, its funny how the new VZ hsv owners are so up themselfs... is the cosmetics really worth it ?? in my opinion yes and no,

yes - because i love the look of the VX clubsport front,side,rear bars (especially the front it looks tough) interior aint that much better from a ss, maybe a little bit bigger on the side bolster and a "logo" thats about it...

would i buy one again ... depends i want a 6ltr in next 3-5 months so ill probally buy a vz hsv, and buy a pov pack and do it up....

hsv are a nice car, but maybe hsv needs to add a bit more ... "class& speciality" to them....

my opinion...

and for all the upnosed hsv's who think their car is DUCKS NUTS... maybe you need to come down to willowbank and put your foot where your mouth is :)

[seldo]

Whilst this whole thread has been an amusing stir, I hadn't seen anyone actually complaining about the non-exclusivity of the LS2, except for the first poster who doesn't even seem to own a car...:shock: I think the whole idea may have been the result of some over-enthusiatic dreaming on his part...a messy business...;)

[crisso]

ah huh, the whole thread appears to be VZSS250 dreaming.

[OzJavelin]

Exclusivity? (spelling?) What about the poor buggers in the USA (and elsewhere) who bought the mega-buck ZR1 Corvette with the Lotus-engineered DOHC conversion on the 350? As I understand it, Chev deliberately held off the release of the GenIII 'cos they knew the ZR1 owners would throw a hissy-fit when they found out that a year of so later the new standard production engine in the Corvette (the GenIII) would kick the ZR1's butt ...

ZR1 owners bought "the-best-of-the-best" (Top Gun speak) .. AT THE TIME! Cars, like computers are progressing rapidly. Buy a HSV today and enjoy the benefits now. Don't get upset in a year or so when sales-reps in leased SV8 are on the same HP ..

My two cents.

Rod.

[Animal]

Best thing so far - the mods have let it run :D

[Speedy Gonzales]

Bring on the LS2, it will make us LS1 oldies consider a 383 or 427 mods in a more attractive curvier package :P You can keep your square front and rear ends :D

[stingred]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:your a very nasty peice of work aint ya.

[VZLS260L]

I have just recently purchased a new VZ HSV Clubsport.

I also looked at a new Holden SS.

The reason I opted for the HSV over the Holden SS was purely a commercial decision.
i.e. bang for my buck!!!

I think it is prudent that when buying a car you are mindfull what you are paying for, at the time, and not get 'hung' up on if's, but's & may be's for the future.

This was the reason why I chose HSV, for the reason they have LS2 available NOW!!!
Otherwise I would have leased an SS over three years, knowing full well the VE SS would have depreciated my VZ SS too much with the introduction of the LS2 to the SS range.

Put simply, it was a commercial decision, to lessen the most potential loss at the end of my lease. Cause we all no we very rarely make money on cars.

[Waughy]

I dont see the issue. Did Holden jack up the prices on the LS2 HSV's? Hardly. People were still paying almost the same for the LS1 HSV's.

And Im sure current VZ owners were fully aware when purchasing the 'exclusivity' wouldnt last regardless.

But I'd still rather have one over the general Holden offerings, if I could afford one!


Sounds like the Monaro promise on the Hothouse green paint, "no other car will get it" was used as a selling point if I remember corerctly. How many Monaro owners were let down when the next SS came out in what colour? Then the VTII with GENIII.
Those 'effected' got over it, and anyone who feels the same way with the LS2 will get over it also.

[VU II SS]

This is actually similar to something that seemed to happen about 6 years ago. VT HSV's with that lovely LS1 badge on the back. Hmm a year later the SS's had the same engine. The funny thing about that was Holden sold their engine as a gen III, it is amazing how many people thought that the HSV engine was totally different. Buy a HSV buy a badge

[Holden Nut]

This is actually similar to something that seemed to happen about 6 years ago. VT HSV's with that lovely LS1 badge on the back. Hmm a year later the SS's had the same engine. The funny thing about that was Holden sold their engine as a gen III, it is amazing how many people thought that the HSV engine was totally different. Buy a HSV buy a badge
I thought the VT II SS came before the VT II HSV's??

[Aus8]

This is actually similar to something that seemed to happen about 6 years ago. VT HSV's with that lovely LS1 badge on the back. Hmm a year later the SS's had the same engine. The funny thing about that was Holden sold their engine as a gen III, it is amazing how many people thought that the HSV engine was totally different. Buy a HSV buy a badge

Incorrect, they both (Holden & HSV) started using it at the same time with the VTII range in 1999. If anything Holden were using the LS1 before HSV had launched their VTII range.

Cheers

Aus8

[VU II SS]

I thought the VT II SS came before the VT II HSV's??

If you read again I said VT HSV not series 2. If I am correct the first R8s came out with the LS1

[Aus8]

If you read again I said VT HSV not series 2. If I am correct the first R8s came out with the LS1

Sorry mate you lost me with this one. Your post above said that HSV were using the LS1 a year before Holden was which is incorrect. You correctly state that the R8 was launched with the VTII but fail to see the relevance. No VT1's were LS1 powered. They were still on the old faithful 304.

Cheers

Aus8

[VU II SS]

Sorry, My bad.

[Gareth@Willall]

Sorry mate you lost me with this one. Your post above said that HSV were using the LS1 a year before Holden was which is incorrect. You correctly state that the R8 was launched with the VTII but fail to see the relevance. No VT1's were LS1 powered. They were still on the old faithful 304.

Cheers

Aus8

I'll thow a spanner in the works :lol: Ive seen a VT1 with a LS1. Has done close too 200,000km now too ;) I think they might be mighty rare tho!

Gareth

[Holden Nut]

I'll thow a spanner in the works :lol: Ive seen a VT1 with a LS1. Has done close too 200,000km now too ;) I think they might be mighty rare tho!

Gareth
Could it be a translpant or something? Or possibly not a series 1?

[Waughy]

Either that or a prototype to work out how the GENIII would fit in the engine bay? Taht would make it rare.

[SV99]

Simple buy a car to enjoy not to make money on.

The LS1 is going out of production what do they expect holden to use in the normal commodores the old EFI 304 :bash: wakeup fellas.

[YCV8]

I don't think this dilemma is just reserved for HSV owners. Based on the same ideology, all LS1 owners.. be it... executive, SV8, SS, Monaro, HSV... will be seeing lower resale rates as why would you buy an LS1 SV8 when you can get an LS2 SV8... relative across the board.

[goofafidamedes]

Either that or a prototype to work out how the GENIII would fit in the engine bay? Taht would make it rare.

Yeah, something like that... I think I read that a couple of prototypes were built, possibly one was in the US as well. A genuine VT1 with the GenIII would be worth a pretty penny...

[VooDoo]

Yeah, something like that... I think I read that a couple of prototypes were built, possibly one was in the US as well. A genuine VT1 with the GenIII would be worth a pretty penny...

There were some VS Gen3 prototypes too if i remember correctly

[gameover]

I don't think this dilemma is just reserved for HSV owners. Based on the same ideology, all LS1 owners.. be it... executive, SV8, SS, Monaro, HSV... will be seeing lower resale rates as why would you buy an LS1 SV8 when you can get an LS2 SV8... relative across the board.

thats why i left my engine stock apart from the heads, cam, exhaust, extractors and supercharger. When GM discontinues the Monaro i'm gonna be rich!! :lol:

[Aus8]

So have they actually stopped production of the LS1 engine now?

[VZSS250]

OK, getting back to the point, this thread was started to discuss the fact that some (though not all) VZ HSV owners in other threads have expressed disappointment that they will have to share the same engine with Holden V8 owners. I wanted to remind these people that in VR-VT SSs, a Clubsport spec motor could be had for only $2,000. Therefore, HSV's claim to offer exclusivity to their customers with a different powerplant is actually a concept that has never applied to HSV's tier 1 cars and this should not be taken for granted.

And for those who aren't sure what car I drive, if any, take a look at my name and guess.

This was not meant to be a HSV bashing session. I love HSVs, and will eventually get one.

[RED R8]

Its amazing how most of us have the ls1 and love them with a few mods we can pull decent quatermile times have in excess of 300 odd kw's yet as soon as holden brings out something new we feel we must pay 15-20k changeovers to get that extra 300cc's even though the ls2 starts out slower than our modded ls1's if you put your 15-20k into your current ride imagine what you could do. To me its all about bragging rights ,I have a ls2 ,I have a HSV,what ever happened to buying a car simply because you just love the shape of that particular car me personally I will keep my VYSS because I love the shape yes the VZSS may have a couple of things I like not 10k(changeovers worth) and If I put 25k's worth of performance and visual modson my VY It would look hot and blow the doors off any ls2,ls3 etc the reason holden keep changing models and upgrading motors is because you guys keep buying them .

[Aus8]

I dont see why VZ HSV owners are jumping around about Holden's getting the 6L very shortly. They have had more exclusivity than ever with this LS2 Engine. Holden and HSV both got the LS1 at the same time in the VTII. Imagine the poor VTI HSV owners who got creamed by stock VTII SS's!

Cheers

aus8

[NickS]

Its amazing how most of us have the ls1 and love them with a few mods we can pull decent quatermile times have in excess of 300 odd kw's yet as soon as holden brings out something new we feel we must pay 15-20k changeovers to get that ... the reason holden keep changing models and upgrading motors is because you guys keep buying them .

Excellent points, maybe if we all agree not to buy any new cars for the next 2 years Holden + HSV will stop releasing new models every year (works for me cause my cars only 1 month old :D ) ... reckon this will work ??? But seriously, as Daz says, we can't really complain that the cars keep getting upgraded, there never has been and never will be any guarantee that the car you buy will retain it's place in the who's who of Holdens line up.

[VZKOOP]

I am confident that i will regret this, by gee who cares :)

Three years ago i brought a VX II senator for $87,000 and treated it like a baby (other than how I drove it !) Moified the motor, had 337 Hp at the rears and traded it looking better than brand new with 50,000ks on the clock traded it for $ 41,000.

At the same time as I brought it I paid $45,000 for my wifes VXII SS mod the motor 305HP at the rears and traded it for $ 35,000 with 60,000 on the clock.

In Jan bought a coupe 4 and by the time I had finished with the options spent close enough to 100 grand that it wasnt worth worrying.

Beofre I brought it though i promissed myself and the wife I would look at everything I could afford, Audi, Merc, BMW, VW they all got a drive. Came home sat down and tried to rationalise why I would take another bloody hiding on buying a HSV knowing dam well that in 2 years or so i would have lost 50 grand - again !.

Well its like this. When you drive it , it has nothing to do with power. Every male kid in Australia grows up wanting one. When you drive it heads turn, total strangers give you thumbs up and even people who dont like cars like them, and you smile, bloody lots :lol: .

Thats why most of us drive HSV - as they say I just want one.

HSV drivers are no better than anyone else on this site, we are probably a bit more stupid with how wisely we use our money but I can bet anything you like that when we pull up at the lights next to a non HSV nice set of wheels we are looking at much at your car as you are at ours. Why, cause we all like cars and all respect that it is a boy thing.

One other thing, if we could afford a Ferrari, SL 55 AMG or lambo we would probably have one instead.

What he said....... partcularly "cause we all like cars and all respect that it is a boy thing."

[RED R8]

It all comes down to how much $$$$$ you can afford to burn I personally would still be crying if I cooked $46000 on a senator I bort my ss for 30k and plan to sell it in a few years and got 23-24k back well worth the fun I've had but to lose that sort of $$ I cant justify but hay if you got it and thats what you get enjoyment out of each to their own.

[Glenn@Autowerks]

All HSV owners are wankers anyway :D . The majority would never ever see full throttle or even care what power they make compared to all the commoners that have a povety pack SV8 or SS with all the mods. Their attitude is that the commoners are jealous that they dont have one. That is what HSV market too.

Now lets see the fun begin :mad: :bash: :box:

Thats a Sponser's Thoughts ??? Geez..............

I just got my HSV on Friday night, having fun with the LS2 as well, but on saying that I hope this engine gets into the SS range and even further. I just traded my SS....the second one I have owned.

ps

I aint no HSV snob, my kids were so happy when the rear wheels lit up with 120klm on the odometer, I was :D too !!

[VooDoo]

Thats a Sponser's Thoughts ??? Geez..............

I just got my HSV on Friday night, having fun with the LS2 as well, but on saying that I hope this engine gets into the SS range and even further. I just traded my SS....the second one I have owned.

ps

I aint no HSV snob, my kids were so happy when the rear wheels lit up with 120klm on the odometer, I was :D too !!

Instead of reading one post and replying based on that one post, how about you read the whole thread. Specifically the bit where he said he was shitstirring.

[Glenn@Autowerks]

And I was shit stirring too, all good though, I did read the posts. Delete it if ya want, wont bother me.

[qikls2]

Thats a Sponser's Thoughts ??? Geez..............

I just got my HSV on Friday night, having fun with the LS2 as well, but on saying that I hope this engine gets into the SS range and even further. I just traded my SS....the second one I have owned.

ps

I aint no HSV snob, my kids were so happy when the rear wheels lit up with 120klm on the odometer, I was :D too !!


He did say he had 3 of them so I guess he really must like them. I used to have one and found that people do look at you a bit funny when you have a HSV. Maybe because they just want one :)

Great forum too. The comments here did make me laugh

[qikls2]

And I was shit stirring too, all good though, I did read the posts. Delete it if ya want, wont bother me.

Judging by the hits mr justice took in here I dont think he would mind one more being here. I bet he is short and fat thats why he needed 3 hsv's :) . I am starting to get the hang of this stuff. I have read this list of comments 3 times and I still keep laughing each time

[PepeLePew]

Thats a Sponser's Thoughts ??? Geez..............

I just got my HSV on Friday night, having fun with the LS2 as well, but on saying that I hope this engine gets into the SS range and even further. I just traded my SS....the second one I have owned.

ps

I aint no HSV snob, my kids were so happy when the rear wheels lit up with 120klm on the odometer, I was :D too !!

Guys as Voodoo said, let the thread rest. Justice was just stirring, we all ought to be used to it by now, and he did made it clear he ISNT the sponsor the actual sponsor....

[Roger]

It's all academic.
Only enthusiasts, like those who frequent this sort of site get nitty gritty about what motor is in what car.
HSV, like all their clothing, is simply good marketing. Yes they have an edge for a while, but then Holden come up a level. That's progress.
Many people who buy an HSV (& I'd have one tomorrow if the funds allowed), are NOT informed about what the LS2 badge on the bootlid means anyway.
Does it look different to an SS - yes. Does it go like a cat with a fire cracker up it's date - yes. "What does LS2 mean anyway ?", many of these guys would ask the salesman. I would wager that the HSV salesman may or may not know the whacko geneology of why a GenIII & an LS1 were the old motors - but the same motor (huh ?), now we have an LS2 & it has reshaped combustion chambers compared to the old motor.........blah blah blah.
If you want exclusive, buy an AMG or an M Power car or a Ferrari. If you want similar performance to those with reasonable handling, brakes & spoilers for a reasonable $ (i.e. mass produced), then buy an HSV.
:cool: