LS2 oil consumption/piston issues ?

[jamesp]

Have any LS2 owners experienced any oil consumption or piston noise issues that affected so many LS1 engines.

[hqracer]

I know of 2 LS2 engines being rebuilt. 1 used 3 litres of oil of a 5 hour trip! was smoking like a trooper!

[OzJavelin]

I thought these engines were being built with torque plates, had "better" pistons and whatnot so they shouldn't have this problem??

[jed55]

I know of 2 LS2 engines being rebuilt. 1 used 3 litres of oil of a 5 hour trip! was smoking like a trooper!
:eek: :eek: No problems here. Have clocked up 13k and no oil top up needed between services.

Cheers, John D

[Danv8]

I know of 2 LS2 engines being rebuilt. 1 used 3 litres of oil of a 5 hour trip! was smoking like a trooper!


Oh oh I thought the problems would of been solved by now!

God damn it why cant the LS2's be build down here. Although I know a few FPV owners having oil consumpsion issues as well. I am begining to think its a plot for the oil companies to cash in. :eek:

[NODDY347]

Oh oh I thought the problems would of been solved by now!

God damn it why cant the LS2's be build down here. Although I know a few FPV owners having oil consumpsion issues as well. I am begining to think its a plot for the oil companies to cash in. :eek:

Where are the engines made/assembled atm?

[seldo]

I know of 2 LS2 engines being rebuilt. 1 used 3 litres of oil of a 5 hour trip! was smoking like a trooper!
You actually KNOW of them....like first hand....?? or just know someone whose mate knows someone whose uncle's brother's neighbour said he heard of a problem in Arkansas.......?

[Tez82]

arn't they being built in the states, but put together here in oz???

[Azza]

Built in Canada, sent to OZ put into the cars, sent back to the USA, Oh what a world we live in :lol:

[RED R8]

I thought these engines were being built with torque plates, had "better" pistons and whatnot so they shouldn't have this problem??






Funny heard that before thats why I went the VYSS with its revised pistons and such .(still waiting for my rebuild though).

[The Warden]

You actually KNOW of them....like first hand....?? or just know someone whose mate knows someone whose uncle's brother's neighbour said he heard of a problem in Arkansas.......?

HQR knows first hand alright and I'll second it.

We both saw one car at an HSV track day, I watched it have 3 litres poured in before the start of the day and the cloud of blue smoke at the end was real hard to miss. Second car is in the local Holden dealers workshop ATM.

BTW: Cars affected are not mine or HQR's.

My car is good as gold - no oil use, sounds like the bottom end is buggered when it's really cold at first start up but alls OK as soon as the temp gauge moves off the stop.

Cheers,

Gordie

[seldo]

HQR knows first hand alright and I'll second it.

We both saw one car at an HSV track day, I watched it have 3 litres poured in before the start of the day and the cloud of blue smoke at the end was real hard to miss. Second car is in the local Holden dealers workshop ATM.

BTW: Cars affected are not mine or HQR's.

My car is good as gold - no oil use, sounds like the bottom end is buggered when it's really cold at first start up but alls OK as soon as the temp gauge moves off the stop.

Cheers,

Gordie
Gordie, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it isn't the case or that HQR is handling the truth carelessly...but I was just asking the question as to whether it was genuine first-hand info or just one of those "a mate-of-a-mate-of a mate.....etc" situations that we have all seen before..:) If that's the case it's a terrible shame...

[payaya]

let face it some engine just arent as reliable as others! If you want reliable go Toyota :)

[ADSXR8]

Here we go again.

Holden have been aware of these oil consumption problems since 1999, say VTII days. Fair go, its only 6 years down the track. And all these problems must be related.

GM might be waiting for Nissan to build a enourmous capacity V8's to put in a Commodore.......................

[smoke]

Maybe they are doing it on purpose, so we all buy v6s :D

[The Warden]

Gordie, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it isn't the case or that HQR is handling the truth carelessly...but I was just asking the question as to whether it was genuine first-hand info or just one of those "a mate-of-a-mate-of a mate.....etc" situations that we have all seen before..:) If that's the case it's a terrible shame...

Seldo, no worries, I know you're not the type to stir. Your question was valid. Hope I didn't sound defensive in my reply, I just wanted to let ppl know these 2 car have had problems. :cheers:

With regard to the HSV club member's car I understand (not 100% sure on this) that the first user was a Mr G Murphy, presently employed by Super Cheap Auto Racing. It was his drive car when he was over here for the Puke V8 round. The present owner drives it like he wishes he was Mr G Murphy......that could explain why that car has issues.....

Cheers,
Gordie.

[Danv8]

Here we go again.

Holden have been aware of these oil consumption problems since 1999, say VTII days. Fair go, its only 6 years down the track. And all these problems must be related.

GM might be waiting for Nissan to build a enourmous capacity V8's to put in a Commodore.......................


Nissan does build a 5.6L V8

[Danv8]

let face it some engine just arent as reliable as others! If you want reliable go Toyota :)


Toyota has the money and the technology but they continue to create boring cars. Shame that Toyota does not come up with an SS Commodore type car.

[GTO011]

No problems with mine. Coming up to 10k service and no top ups required.

[payaya]

Toyota has the money and the technology but they continue to create boring cars. Shame that Toyota does not come up with an SS Commodore type car.

Yes they do create boring cars! I guess in Japan its a bit better with the Supra etc. Toyotas profits are huge, i guess the formula works for them, why change it? Toyota i guess are in the process of changing their image, they seem to be on tack to release some bullets.

[hqracer]

Good on you Gordie - defending my honor...my hero!! :bash:

Definitely first hand info! Seen em with my own eyes!

Cheers

[Blown 454 AWD]

It appears we are very quick to blame the car manufacture here for glazed motors.

I think it would be a good idea for all people who purchase new cars to search the topic "running in" and read it carefully.

While I'm not trying to blame the driver in this case, it just may lessen this reoccurring complaint.

Another thought, if you have a mechanical fault with a machine, it usually doesn't fix it's self and all of the same machines should all do it, if it's an error in manufacture. There is no magic here, why am I seeing, "mines fine" and "mine not"?

Although there may be mechanical modifications to the latest engines to try and stop glazed engines, at the end of the day, it is the type of oils used and the procedure used on breaking in the engine, or they would all burn oil !!

I have never had an engine burn oil excessively from new, why? because I beat the living shit out of them from new. (that's not thrash, that's different)

This submission is meant to be positive and not offend anyone with their driving techniques, it's just the facts.

[OzJavelin]

It appears we are very quick to blame the car manufacture here for glazed motors. I think it would be a good idea for all people who purchase new cars to search the topic "running in" and read it carefully. While I'm not trying to blame the driver in this case, it just may lessen this reoccurring complaint ... I have never had an engine burn oil excessively from new, why? because I beat the living shit out of them from new. (that's not thrash, that's different) ... This submission is meant to be positive and not offend anyone with their driving techniques, it's just the facts.
Yep okay, good point .. and I'm happy to agree that my driving style *will* have affected the run-in of my engine. But, I basically followed the instructions in the vehicle manual. They are the same instructions I followed on the original engine which went to 80,000km without ever using any oil between changes. Whether they are right or wrong, that's what they are. If I caned snot out of the engine from the get-go and it threw a rod (unlikely), I don't think Holden would be too happy with me... :)

I think that it is basically as wrong to blame ALL run-in (oil consumption) issues on the drivers as it is to blame them ALL on the manufacturer. I think there are probably a few people on this Board with a heavy right foot who have has the same oil consumption problems as us more meek drivers.


Another thought, if you have a mechanical fault with a machine, it usually doesn't fix it's self and all of the same machines should all do it, if it's an error in manufacture. There is no magic here, why am I seeing, "mines fine" and "mine not"? ... Although there may be mechanical modifications to the latest engines to try and stop glazed engines, at the end of the day, it is the type of oils used and the procedure used on breaking in the engine, or they would all burn oil !!
I think your analysis is based upon an assumption that all engines are built identical? All production engines are built to a set of acceptable tolerances and on a Yanky V8 those tolerances can be pretty wide. Additionally, it *appears* that a lot of tolerance errors are missed in QC on these engines. Even the intrinsic design of the LS1 seems to exaggerate these errors - eg. Alloy block, designed wide piston/wall clearance, short piston skirt, etc. I think there are a lot of variables here which can cause "mechanical" problems?

Perhaps to analyse these discrepancies in a more "constructive" manner (ie. not talking about oil consumption), that the performance-oriented people on this forum would like, we should look at the differences in power output across stock engines? If everyone who had their engine dyno'd as stock for a baseline posted the power output we might see significant differences between engines (assuming driveline equal??!!) Any of the dyno operators got an idea on this one??

[Blown 454 AWD]

As I said at the bottom of my last post, it was meant to be constructive and I wasn’t pointing the bone at anyone, this is difficult to do with this subject however, it appears I have achieved most of what I was trying to do, that is, get people thinking about more than the manufacturer here, as OzJavelin just said, there are many variables in this situation.

I wounder how much difference it would make if we checked the variables, right down to questioning what oil they are using when a new motor is assembled.

Myself, I change the running in oil as soon as I get back to the shop, as I don’t trust any manufacturer when it comes to running in new motors.

If you reduce wear with high quality lubricants and or don’t load this BIG Gen III motor sufficiently, then it will glaze the bore and be an oil burner.

As an experiment, in Vic when dealing with some of the golf courses down there, we drained the oil from a new greens machine that was quite badly glazed, burning oil bad, flushed the motor and put a new running in oil we spec’ed for the job, worked it hard and we managed to “deglaze” the bores and the motor stopped burning oil, it doesn’t take much to stop “bed in” and glaze the bores.

I do feel we are not aggressive enough when running in motors.

THIS IS NOT POINTED AN ANYONE, IT’S 35 YEARS OF ENGINEERING THAT LETS ME SEE THE ABOVE.

[Tombo]

450 kW Adventra I know this question is slightly off track but what oil did you use to run your motor in and what oil are you currently using?
Cheers
Roy :)

[OzJavelin]

O/T to this discussion (re: LS2) but anyway ..

450 kW Adventra: As Holden have only refilled my oil-burning LS1 with whatever oil was in it before .. what can I do to tempt it to bed-in at 1800km? Drop the oil and change it to what? Will driving it harder now bed it in or is it all too late?
[ This is the first engine (new or rebuilt) I've ever had oil consumption problems with so I'm a bit lost here ... ]

[Blown 454 AWD]

450 kW Adventra I know this question is slightly off track but what oil did you use to run your motor in and what oil are you currently using?
Cheers
Roy :)

The product was Mainlube 197 SAE 30 Running in Oil. (mono weight) high VI (Viscosity Index) about SL Spec down there, to look after the bottom end and a SE spec for the slip (anti wear) so the rings can bed in.

I’m about to build a new Running in oil more spec’ed for LS1's, possible more along the lines of we now know more about this and therefore could build an even better running in oil than we have.

In the good old days we used to run a special running in oils however, these days no one seems to worry about these little formalities, hence I more glazed bores today than 30 years ago. (we didn't have super spec'ed oils to glaze them with then either)

I currently use Mainlube 175 Synthetic Race Oil SAE 10w60, something with nuts!!!

Cheers
Steve

[Blown 454 AWD]

O/T to this discussion (re: LS2) but anyway ..

450 kW Adventra: As Holden have only refilled my oil-burning LS1 with whatever oil was in it before .. what can I do to tempt it to bed-in at 1800km? Drop the oil and change it to what? Will driving it harder now bed it in or is it all too late?
[ This is the first engine (new or rebuilt) I've ever had oil consumption problems with so I'm a bit lost here ... ]


Now there’s a curly one, the simple answer is at 1800k’s I believe there would be a 60% chance in re-bedding in your rings with a proper running in oil designed for the job (and it’s not Brasso) if you have glazed bores.

Yes driving it harder at this stage will help, unfortunately you have started the process of glazing, it needs mono weight oil plus a new running in procedure.

If it was mine, and I hadn’t talked about this on a public forum, I would have the running in oil in now and be out beating it however, if it was too late and we were unsuccessful then Holden would be in a good position to say, the oil you put in caused the problem (and through a lack of knowledge in the area, they would say that)

We couldn’t do any more damage than what has taken place already, and all they would do if we weren’t successful is pull the motor down an de-glaze the bore and fit new rings, what they would be doing anyway however, I would need to get their blessing in writing before we try such a task as I see the Vaseline being put on the desk and that would take the fun out of it.

I have a friend with Vet and a, not so public paper from GM USA about this subject and they directly blame the driving habits for glazed engines and the fact that people are not working this big motor hard enough. I will see if I can get a copy and post it.

Cheers

Steve

[COUPE]

Now there’s a curly one, the simple answer is at 1800k’s I believe there would be a 60% chance in re-bedding in your rings with a proper running in oil designed for the job (and it’s not Brasso) if you have glazed bores.

Yes driving it harder at this stage will help, unfortunately you have started the process of glazing, it needs mono weight oil plus a new running in procedure.

If it was mine, and I hadn’t talked about this on a public forum, I would have the running in oil in now and be out beating it however, if it was too late and we were unsuccessful then Holden would be in a good position to say, the oil you put in caused the problem (and through a lack of knowledge in the area, they would say that)

We couldn’t do any more damage than what has taken place already, and all they would do if we weren’t successful is pull the motor down an de-glaze the bore and fit new rings, what they would be doing anyway however, I would need to get their blessing in writing before we try such a task as I see the Vaseline being put on the desk and that would take the fun out of it.

I have a friend with Vet and a, not so public paper from GM USA about this subject and they directly blame the driving habits for glazed engines and the fact that people are not working this big motor hard enough. I will see if I can get a copy and post it.

Cheers

Steve


That would be great if you could post it up Steve, for all us who have just purchased a new LS1 / LS2.



Also I understand the car needs to be driven hard and with load (eg going up a hill in a higher gear loading up the engine) ... But should we be also changing the oil the car comes with when it's dilivered?

I'ts so hard to get an honsest answer out of the dealerships with what oil is actual in the car ... Maybe they don't even know themselves ... I've heard many say that the LS2's come with Mobil 1 already in them from factory ... Saying the LS2 engine was designed to run Mobil 1 from the get go ...... If this is the case running the car with a synthetic from 0k's goes against everything I've read about running in an engine .... What would you recommend in this case?

[VYSHSV8]

Have given mine a hard time from new not thrashing it but lots of spirited driving etc and have no probs with excess oil consumption just clocked over 20000ks and is going in for its second service next week and in 10000k's it has only used just over 1/2 a litre. Will normally change oil every 5000k's but wanted to see what it would use after 10000k's of all types of driving my type and the missus type of driving that is a great variation between me and the wife in driving styles but its not a flogging. Lots of hard accel and also cruising etc etc, but not wringing its ears of till it hits the rev limiter in every gear. This is the way I have broken every car i have owned new or rebiult engines and never had any problems with them.

Just my 2c

[V8R]

would these things benefit from a cpl of hrs on a dyno, running under various loads and at various speeds? im guessing this is the sort of thing we're trying to achienve in an on-road scenario, which isnt always as easy to do as it sounds?

1) buy brand spanking new V8
2) dump oil for nice monoweight
3) run hard for 3hrs on dyno, under load at various speeds
(sidenote: anyone got fully electronics control of the new drive by wire cars yet, on the dyno? control it all from the laptop?)
4) do first (second really) oil and filter change
5) continue driving hard till first service?

JM

[Drewie]

I tend to agree that running in by placing controlled loads on the motor ie: hills etc and get gas pressure behind the rings is the way to go, which is how I run mine in, but what also makes it hard to get your mind around is probably the thousands of LS1's in Statesmans, Calais, Wagons etc that are bought and spend their early days if not their entire life ferring the kids to school etc and still have no oil issues, my sister-in-law is an example bought a VYII last year, I don't think it has ever been on a long run and doubt it has ever been over 4000 rpm and it is fine no noise no oil issues at all and only gets 10k services, they are odd beasts these LS1's think it all gets back to tolerences in the initial machining, and often wonder if the Alloy blocks somehow differ in their composition when cast in that maybe some expand differently to others as they heat up, but when measured cold even with torque plates on all appears to be in spec.

[Blown 454 AWD]

The Dyno would be a great way to control the load etc however......

Baaaccckkk innn thhee ollddd daaayyyss.. (70's)

When I was back on the bench, the first thing the old boys drummed into us was, get the farkin thing out on the road ASAP, even before the bonnet went back on, as soon as we had checked the tuning, out on the road to get that first 100 to 200 k's on the speedo with the correct load but more importantly, to get the heat out of the motor.

We were never aloud to run a new engine more than 10 minutes in the shop as the heat generated by new rings in a freshly honed bore is tremendous, it is very easy to over heat the rings ever so slightly and loose a wee bit of tension between the ring and the bore.

If you over heat the rings and lose the new tension then it's more likely to burn oil and also will never be a stunner.

Just something to watch for.

[OzJavelin]

Interesting? My exchange engine was VERY tight and seemed to cause a lot of strain on the started and cooling system of my SV8. The original engine NEVER had this problem.

[bonneville06790]

My 2008 VE SS used 3L of oil in the first 10,000 Kms!!!! Better not continue to use oil at this rate.