Holden say VE release delayed

[Smitty]

from The Age today...

Holden revs up cycle, concedes Commodore is late
By Toby Hagan Motoring Editor June 20, 2005


According to GM Holden chairman and managing director Denny Mooney, shorter model cycles are crucial to viability and competitiveness.

According to GM Holden chairman and managing director Denny Mooney, shorter model cycles are crucial to viability and competitiveness.

A shorter development cycle means all-new Commodores will be released in Australia in a shorter time frame than ever before.

GM Holden chairman and managing director Denny Mooney said reducing model cycles was crucial to the viability and competitiveness of the company. He has flagged a five-to-six year model life for future Commodores. That is well down on the long accepted Australian standard of eight or nine years.

Mr Mooney was speaking from Korea, where Holden is a major shareholder in GM Daewoo Automotive Technology. "We're looking more at five or six years, which is what's happening globally."

Mr Mooney said bringing all-new cars to market quicker was crucial to the survival of the brand, which was now competing on a global scale.

"Everyone's going to shorter life cycles, so we have to be competitive in the marketplace," he said. "Our relatively small company isn't as small as it used to be."

The last all-new Commodore was the VT-model of 1997, which has been updated through various guises and will be completely replaced with the all-new VE model next year.

But the push to shorter cycles is not without cost. Mr Mooney said the trade-off was that Holden would not be able to continue with the annual Commodore upgrades that kept the car fresh.

Mr Mooney also confirmed to The Age that the new Commodore was running late due to development problems.

"We've reset the (launch) date, but I don't want to talk specifics," said Mr Mooney.

"With all the difficulties that we had in the assembly plant last year, we were going to do some tooling this July, but we've put it off and will close down for longer next December because we want to have more time with these tools before we put them in the plant."

He admitted there had been development issues that had caused headaches with what some saw as the most important new Commodore ever.

"Every program has lots of issues and challenges. But my assessment is that where we are now is pretty typical (of a new model development).

"We have a lot of issues, but you always do. I'm confident we'll get them fixed."

Mr Mooney said the issues for the VE development were validation issues, where a part might be failing or not fitting as it was designed to do.

He said there were lessons in the delay that could benefit Holden in the longer term.

"We probably underestimated how difficult this was going to be.

"On paper, this stuff looks easy but, in reality, it isn't that easy," Mr Mooney said.

"We haven't leveraged what GM is doing in other parts of the world as well as we could have, but we're doing a lot more of that now.

"It is unfortunate that we haven't had more global interaction on how to do things best," he said.

[NickS]

Bet no one saw that one coming !!!

[Pickles]

Dennis Mooney is the best "smoke & mirrors" man I've ever heard!! That statement is all "waffle"-doesn't say anything specific at all- I'm beginning to wonder what sort of "clout" this fellow has got, or does he have to get the ok from the US before he says anything of substance. cheers, Pickles.

[Goggles]

sounds like a bit of marketing to get a date which gives maximum publicity....as long as it is before the lease on my current SS expires.

[mavss]

But the push to shorter cycles is not without cost. Mr Mooney said the trade-off was that Holden would not be able to continue with the annual Commodore upgrades that kept the car fresh.
And that's a bad thing because ??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jac001]

And that's a bad thing because ??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Because u sell less cars. People don't want to buy a car that has been the same for the last 3 years... many people upgrade very model or 2 and so you bring out more models you sell more cars.

[Kirium]

Should be better for resale tho, insteading of having an out of date car in less than 12 months...

[mavss]

Should be better for resale tho, insteading of having an out of date car in less than 12 months...
Exactly the point I was getting at.

[smoke]

Cool! 6 models in 6 years! Beats 12 models in 6 years :eek: Finally, no more bullsh5t series 2 updates.

[mavss]

Cool! 6 models in 6 years! Beats 12 models in 6 years :eek: Finally, no more bullsh5t series 2 updates.
Actually, it'll be more like 2-3 models in 6 years.

[Ghia351]

Mr Mooney said the issues for the VE development were validation issues, where a part might be failing or not fitting as it was designed to do.


Several thoughts on this quote/comment...I wonder if this is a production line assembly issue where the theoretical method of assembly "online" can't match the real work situation, or the computer based component assembly (piece to piece fit) is not eventuating with actual tool built components or if a component is failing due to fatigue requiring redesign etc...

Either way a late 2006 release is obvious if not early 2007 which means we have an all new Magna this year, BA replacement later this year, probably an updated VZ this year which could be put further back to evenly space out to the VE and an all new Falcon and VE Commodore now closer in time-span.....

[bigdongers]

Mooney has said that the VE should arrive faster than the new Falcon and Camry. Don't know about the Magna though.

[Smitty]

Several thoughts on this quote/comment...I wonder if this is a production line assembly issue where the theoretical method of assembly "online" can't match the real work situation, or the computer based component assembly (piece to piece fit) is not eventuating with actual tool built components or if a component is failing due to fatigue requiring redesign etc...

.....

yeah Albert
good thought!

the new model prebuild function is very important
you do the body stuff...and get that right
then do the rest, the trim the electrics etc

I worked for 12 years for a Tier1 supplier to Holdens
(as well as Holdens for 8 years previously)
and you would not believe the things that can happen....!

Holdens for example specify the interior Vinyl trim 'grain pattern'
and its orientation and then get 4 different suppliers*
to supply trim bits that join up together
and you can bet, someone will stuff up!
the 'grain' will go the wrong way and look terrible :bash:
so all the drawings have to be checked
and then the part fixed...before it is signed off and accepted

*someone makes the dash top, someone else the glovebox cover
someone the adjacent door trim etc etc...

and this does not even include things that don't fit or more commonly
BREAK when installed.. yep, it will clip into the socket or hole
except the clip breaks when it is pushed in :mad:

and when you think a car has more than 8,000 parts
LOTS can go wrong :eek:

cheers

[Zero5]

I know we have been around the Series II debate for a while but today I was told by a collegue who has a VY Monaro ordered that the colour he chose will not be available past August. This immediatly indcated to me that there would be a model revision of some sort around August. If the VE has been delayed that would give a SII a life span of more than 12 months which would make it viable.

[Ghia351]

yeah Albert
good thought!

the new model prebuild function is very important
you do the body stuff...and get that right
then do the rest, the trim the electrics etc

I worked for 12 years for a Tier1 supplier to Holdens
(as well as Holdens for 8 years previously)
and you would not believe the things that can happen....!

Holdens for example specify the interior Vinyl trim 'grain pattern'
and its orientation and then get 4 different suppliers*
to supply trim bits that join up together
and you can bet, someone will stuff up!
the 'grain' will go the wrong way and look terrible :bash:
so all the drawings have to be checked
and then the part fixed...before it is signed off and accepted

*someone makes the dash top, someone else the glovebox cover
someone the adjacent door trim etc etc...

and this does not even include things that don't fit or more commonly
BREAK when installed.. yep, it will clip into the socket or hole
except the clip breaks when it is pushed in :mad:

and when you think a car has more than 8,000 parts
LOTS can go wrong :eek:

cheers
Smitty, greetings from E.B.

I have enough trouble with my 2-3 y.o's jigsaw puzzles, I could imagine dealing with component suppliers and the frustration when you assemble some parts only to find part a. is 0.05mm out and part b. is mirror imaged, part c fatiguing on prototype testing etc....from the goss I get it's not un-common.

[bigdongers]

I know we have been around the Series II debate for a while but today I was told by a collegue who has a VY Monaro ordered that the colour he chose will not be available past August. This immediatly indcated to me that there would be a model revision of some sort around August. If the VE has been delayed that would give a SII a life span of more than 12 months which would make it viable.

I think you mean VZ Monaro. Out of interest, which colour did he want that would no longer be available?

[Smitty]

Smitty, greetings from E.B.

I have enough trouble with my 2-3 y.o's jigsaw puzzles, I could imagine dealing with component suppliers and the frustration when you assemble some parts only to find part a. is 0.05mm out and part b. is mirror imaged, part c fatiguing on prototype testing etc....from the goss I get it's not un-common.

hahaha
your 3yo's got ya beat :p

the mismatch is very common

another example
we make the HVAC casing (injected moulded plastic)
which goes to..XXXX who fit the heater core
and A/C condensing assembly
and they change where the hoses connect
(coz its cheaper or easier to assemble, whatever)
and someone does not tell us to move the corepin
we insert when doing the injection moulding
ooops..NO hole to fit the hose (or its in the wrong place)

designing, speccing a car is a logistics nightmare
and delays are common

oh
and did i tell you about the time when we made the towbar cover.... :lol: :lol:

cheers

[Smitty]

hmmmmm
and its interesting we have had NO comment from our friends at Holden

[Zero5]

I think you mean VZ Monaro. Out of interest, which colour did he want that would no longer be available?

Sorry - correct meant VZ Monaro. Odyssey was the colour.

[Rick76]

hmmmmm
and its interesting we have had NO comment from our friends at Holden

I already know the answer to that:

Thankyou for your interest but it is Holden company policy not to speak about the specifics of future models....

[Kirium]

I know we have been around the Series II debate for a while but today I was told by a collegue who has a VY Monaro ordered that the colour he chose will not be available past August. This immediatly indcated to me that there would be a model revision of some sort around August. If the VE has been delayed that would give a SII a life span of more than 12 months which would make it viable.

Just because a particular colour isn't available doesn't mean there's going to be a model revision... It could simply be a case of the colour being discontinued. When I was at a Ford dealer flipping thru a brochure for the F6, he pointed out that one of the lighter blue colours was being discontinued as of july i think. No BA series III or anything, they were just not producing it anymore.
I can't imagine Holden just stopping production in a colour and not replacing it tho... that'd leave the option of about 3 colours... Perhaps there is a model change, but they might be introducing a new colour... :)

[Ghia351]

oh
and did i tell you about the time when we made the towbar cover.... :lol: :lol:

cheers
no...and I'd love to hear it soon.

[mavss]

I already know the answer to that:

Thankyou for your interest but it is Holden company policy not to speak about the specifics of future models....
And I know what my response would be ........... DOH !!!


Just because a particular colour isn't available doesn't mean there's going to be a model revision... It could simply be a case of the colour being discontinued. When I was at a Ford dealer flipping thru a brochure for the F6, he pointed out that one of the lighter blue colours was being discontinued as of july i think. No BA series III or anything, they were just not producing it anymore.
Actually, Motor is reporting that FPV are releasing a refresh to their range around September.

[COUPE]

I know we have been around the Series II debate for a while but today I was told by a collegue who has a VY Monaro ordered that the colour he chose will not be available past August. This immediatly indcated to me that there would be a model revision of some sort around August. If the VE has been delayed that would give a SII a life span of more than 12 months which would make it viable.


Same with the GTO, I know because I got the last one made in my colour :D