Boycott buying Michelin Tyres

[FastSS]

I was so pi**ed on Monday morning after getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the F1 GP from INDY and then to watch the Michelin runners to boycott the race. :mad: So now I would like to get them back by hurting their pockets. If there is anyone out there thinking of purchasing new tyres, Please don't buy MICHELIN. :box:

[dean]

After the last set of Michelin "eggs" I bought, I would never use their crap again.

[mavss]

After the last set of Michelin "eggs" I bought, I would never use their crap again.
No wonder you experienced problems.

You tried fitting their eggs to your car.

Next time, buy their tyres :)

[VX-355]

I was so pi**ed on Monday morning after getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the F1 GP from INDY and then to watch the Michelin runners to boycott the race. :mad: So now I would like to get them back by hurting their pockets. If there is anyone out there thinking of purchasing new tyres, Please don't buy MICHELIN. :box:

Mate fair enough, but don't forget that Michelin were "man" enough to stand up and say that there tyres weren't safe - so good on them for having the balls to do that on a world stage. I also got up to watch the race and was disappointed. ut this is not gonna worry Michelin in any way. I am about to get new tyres and this would not phase me either way (for the record I would never buy Michelin anyway). The real party to blame in my opinion is Bernie and Ferrari. The issue was undoubtedly driver safety and neither of them wanted a bar of it. Now they are all back peddling in the press since their mammoth F**K UP!!
Looks like soem major sponsors are gonna sue Bernie for failing to agree to a compromise, so he might really start to think about what he is doing to the sport.

[Ryzz]

Mate fair enough, but don't forget that Michelin were "man" enough to stand up and say that there tyres weren't safe - so good on them for having the balls to do that on a world stage. I also got up to watch the race and was disappointed. ut this is not gonna worry Michelin in any way. I am about to get new tyres and this would not phase me either way (for the record I would never buy Michelin anyway). The real party to blame in my opinion is Bernie and Ferrari. The issue was undoubtedly driver safety and neither of them wanted a bar of it. Now they are all back peddling in the press since their mammoth F**K UP!!
Looks like soem major sponsors are gonna sue Bernie for failing to agree to a compromise, so he might really start to think about what he is doing to the sport.
Ok Everyone thinking of buying a new Supercar, DONT BUY Ferrari, lets boycot them!!!! :lol:

Sorry couldnt help myself :hide:

[Dacious]

Formula 1 is not a sporting contest anyhow - at least according to their own barrister at the Minardi hearing in the Melbourne Supreme Court! It is a 'cultural event'.

As VX355 says, get angry at Bernie and the FIA who allow the elite motorsport class to go to that stupid oval where cars run at 200mph on banking with a concrete wall around it! Michelin had no way of knowing their tyres would not last - no-one can test them to the limit like Formula 1 drivers and cars. 5 degrees ambient temperature increase can make the difference between failing and hanging together.

Indy (and Monaco for two) do not come anywhere close to meeting FIA rules for racetracks and should not be on the calendar. If anyone else like the Chinese or Russians (or Australia) wants a GP, they have to build a fully compliant circuit with full facillities.

But the Yanks, oh F1 falls all over itself to let them use a deathtrap circuit. After Schumacher the Lesser's crash in practice the Teams, who were put in a terrible position, were right to act in the interests of their drivers and very expensive cars when a reasonable compromise to allow them to pit and change tyres was rejected. Michellin recommended they not run full distance which was responsible. What would you be saying if someone was killed or badly injured due to a blowout?

[Nursing_Mother]

I was so pi**ed on Monday morning after getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the F1 GP from INDY and then to watch the Michelin runners to boycott the race. :mad: So now I would like to get them back by hurting their pockets. If there is anyone out there thinking of purchasing new tyres, Please don't buy MICHELIN. :box:
Yeah good one maybe a few Michelin employees in Australia might lose there jobs and have no money to feed there familys,that is sure going to bring Michelin to its knees on a world scale :mad:

[Kirium]

I was so pi**ed on Monday morning after getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the F1 GP from INDY and then to watch the Michelin runners to boycott the race. :mad: So now I would like to get them back by hurting their pockets. If there is anyone out there thinking of purchasing new tyres, Please don't buy MICHELIN. :box:

As disappointed as we all were at getting up early to watch a non-event, you really don't seem to have a proper grasp of the full situation behind what happened, and I don't think anyone outside the inner sanctum of team bosses and paddock big-wigs knows everything about what happened.

From what I understand, Michelin didn't bring tyres that were suited to the new, resurfaced track. This is the fault of Michelin, no doubt, as they are historically more aggressive with tyre construction and compound than Bridgestone, however Bridgestone, thru their US partner Firestone had the benefit of Firestone data from the Indy500 race that was held since the track had been resurfaced, and how the track had become more abbrasive and was creating a higher temperature on the outside shoulder of the rear left tyre, which is where Michelins were found to be lacking in strength, but only on that particular turn. I'd say without that info from Firestone, Bridgestone also might have possibly arrived at Indy with sub-standard tyre. It's a brave move from Michelin to make a stand like that, but the bad press resulting from this event pales into insignificance if Webber/Alonso/Schumacher went hurtlling into the wall at turn 13 at 305km/h and someone was killed.

Your anger at the event should not entirely be aimed at Michelin. Infact, I think they did everything possible to come to a suitable conclusion to put on a show for fans at the track and aroundthe world. It was the FIA and Ferrari who refused the idea of a chicane being built at turn 13 to reduce corner speed and therefore lateral load on the tyre. The FIA refused (even tho there is possibly a precedent at Barcelona in '94 where a chicane was built just before the race) and so did Ferrari. Michelin shod teams were even prepared to concede the front 6 grid positions to Bridgestone teams, and run the race as a non-championship event for Michelin runners, so only Bridgestone teams would have received points, which is exactly what happened with 6 cars. Furthermore, this issue was raised on Friday night US time, and there had been ample time for the FIA to come to a decision in the best interest of the sport, but they refused, and along with Ferrari (whos boss, Jean Todt is rumored to be Max Mosely's successor as President of the FIA) blocked the Michelin teams proposals.

I think there are other parties more to blame for the lack of an exciting event than Michelin, and the proper and right decision not to run cars on tyres that weren't safe to take that corner at 305kph was entirely correct.

Boycotting their product because of what happened is a ridiculous idea...

P.S. With the exception of Pilot Sport Cups, I wouldn't buy their tyres anyway...

[pagey]

Mate fair enough, but don't forget that Michelin were "man" enough to stand up and say that there tyres weren't safe - so good on them for having the balls to do that on a world stage.

Hmm.. I wonder how much was "balls" and how much was financial/product risk management.

I.e My guess is their accountant crunched the numbers of the percieved negative impact from public and like - V's the $$ impact of law suits and associated dramas if one of their cars lost it causing major injury/death.

Hence their statement that they could not gaurantee their integrity of their tyres.. but if the team wanted to use them go ahead.. but you're on your own.. Interestingly they didn't come out with the "under no circumstances are teams to use our tyres".. rather left it up to the teams discretion. If the teams ran and won then no problems.. if they ran and had a tyre failure then they were pre warned.

Smart business sense I think.

And yes.. I to believe they did as much as possoble to offer a solution to the problems.. but unfortunately there were other people making the decisions :evil:

[VX-355]

[QUOTE=Kirium]Ferrari (whos boss, Jean Todt is rumored to be Max Mosely's successor as President of the FIA) [QUOTE]

God help us if this happens, he will surely try to make the race tracks themselves be painted red. :mad:

[RED R8]

I would rather see a race cancelled than a driver getting killed to please the people who got up early I dont think michelin took this decision lightly.

[MNR-0]

This just further highlights the absolute power of a single body to overrule the majority. Decision by decree is not a participative process, nor does it represent the interests of the majority of competitiors. Without competitors there is no sport, no money, no fun.

Change the rules - or bring on the new F1 asssociation so that the drivers, teams and REAL players can have a voice in their own sport. :bash:

It has taken an unfortunate set of circumstances to reveal what the FIA really is - a farce. :booty: And a farcical race they presented indeed.

[LT8888]

I was so pi**ed on Monday morning after getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the F1 GP from INDY and then to watch the Michelin runners to boycott the race. :mad: So now I would like to get them back by hurting their pockets. If there is anyone out there thinking of purchasing new tyres, Please don't buy MICHELIN. :box:


While you're at it why don't we also boycott Mercedes, BMWs, Toyotas, Renaults, Hondas. Wow, I can see that happening!! :rolleyes:

I have only ever used Michelin tyres on my car and I don't intend to change because of something they didn't entirely cause.

[Kirium]

This just further highlights the absolute power of a single body to overrule the majority. Decision by decree is not a participative process, nor does it represent the interests of the majority of competitiors. Without competitors there is no sport, no money, no fun.

Change the rules - or bring on the new F1 asssociation so that the drivers, teams and REAL players can have a voice in their own sport. :bash:

It has taken an unfortunate set of circumstances to reveal what the FIA really is - a farce. :booty: And a farcical race they presented indeed.

In the current Concorde Agreement (the secret document which truely governs F1) It is within the power of the teams to change the rules, except where safety is involved, where the FIA can make rules regarding safety. However, this process of changing rules requires unanimous support of all teams. An example of this happening was when all teams agreed to revert back to a single qualifying session on Saturday and scrap the Sunday 2nd qualifying. A prime example of it working against the better good was the teams proposal to restrict themselves to a max of 30 days of testing per year as a way of drastically cutting the costs involved in testing (which in the case of Ferrari can suck up almost half their budget for the year some estimates claim). All the teams agreed to this except Ferrari. So the testing ban is not a rule, but it has been adhered to by the other 9 teams regardless... So Ferrari continue to defy the other teams and test at will. IMHO, this also taints any wins they will acheive, but despite their free testing ways, they have failed to "really" win this year, all they've done is spend more money. The new 2008 rules are designed to cut costs and invite new competitoin, but If the FIA really cared about saving money in F1, they'd scrap the $48million USD fee they demand for new competitors..


Any applicant which did not take part in the Championship for the
previous year must also deposit US$48,000,000 (forty-eight million United States dollars) with the FIA when submitting its application. This sum will be returned to it forthwith if its application is refused or in twelve equal monthly instalments (including interest) commencing immediately after the first Event in which it competes, provided it has met and continues to meet all the requirements of the Agreement and its schedules. If the applicant fails to appear for the Championship for which it has entered, its deposit will be
forfeit save only that the applicant may delay its participation by one year, in which case US$12,000,000 (twelve million United States dollars) will be forfeit and the balance repaid as set out above.

-From the FIA F1 sporting regulations part 44

Of course the current teams object to scrapping the fee because they feel it would reduce the value of their teams. I'm getting a bit O/T, but it's a shining example of the BS and politicking that is rampant in the sport.

The concorde agreement is binding on the teams until the end of 2007, so it's doubtful there will be a rival series before then, but come 2008, don't be surprised if GPWC is real.

[jbernie]

Keep in mind, if they give the non Bridgestone teams new tyres and said no points for the race, what happens if the Ferrari's and they were the only team of note running were knocked out through an "accident" and scored 0 points for the event. And you can't deny that it wouldn't be in some drivers interest, like the replacement for Ralph Schumacher, to have an "oops" and ensure Ferrari scores no points.

Given all that happened, the race that did occur was proper, the only other solution was for the other teams to run the race with their bad tyres and go through turn 13 at a safe speed, even if that is 100km/h. Ultimately the three teams that did race should suffer no penalty in any form for bringing the right equipment to compete.

Next thing we know a cricket team will show up with the wrong colour pads and ask they play with a tennis ball instead of a regulation ball.

Michelin f'ed up in the highest order. Suggesting that the rules be changed because they did so is ridiculous. If Bridgestone had f'ed it up instead you wouldn't hear a single complaint.

James

[MNR-0]

You clearly know a lot about Motorsport Kirium. Thanks for your most informative input. My gripe is with the system.

changing rules requires unanimous support of all teams
Which is where the system fails. Proposing a democratic system that never sees a democracy vote. Moreover, this is a visionary unity decision making process which from past performance, it will never see. So the system stalls, becoming a victim of its own bureaucracy. The overriding veto is held by a minority, rather than the overrding 'yay' that supports the majority. The teams only have control when they can all agree. If not, the status quo remains.

This was a decision forced out of co-ersion and manipulation, masked in the guise of safety. Ferrari screwed it, drooling over easy championship points. Where's the sportsmanship in that? The FIA was left with no recourse. They couldn't change the track and had to err on the side of safety.

Team Ferrari are are pricks, but they do build great cars. :D

[NickS]

If Bridgestone had f'ed it up instead you wouldn't hear a single complaint.

James

Bridgestone has done the same thing in the past, this has already been discussed, when they did it the FIA allowed them to bring in new tyres. I can't recall what race it was but I am pretty sure it was 2003.

The problem IMHO isn't with Ferrari bending the rules all the time, it's with Mosley / Whiting / Ecclestone letting them. Ferrari have received preferential treatment so many times it is no suprise that they keep trying to bend the rules, they know they will get away with it. The other teams also try and bend the rules, they just never succeed. In a way it doesn't worry me because I have always been a Ferrari fan, but it is getting to the point that it is killing F1 and it really has to stop.

[mavss]

....the only other solution was for the other teams to run the race with their bad tyres and go through turn 13 at a safe speed, even if that is 100km/h.James
The Michellin cars would have been taking turn 13 at half the speed of the Bridgestone cars which in itself poses a serious safety issue.

Apparently, the Michellin cars could still have raced if they pitted every 10 laps to change tyres (I'm sure F1 would turn a blind eye to that). This way, the fans would have seen some decent racing and who knows, we could have seen some of the hottest pit action for years.

Combine this with some aggressive fuel strategy and the leading Michellin teams could have salvaged some points.

[Frankster_P]

Ferrari werent even at the meeting of the team bosses.

They left it up to the FIA to decide.

Frank Williams has gone on the record saying it isnt Ferraris fault.

As Ron Dennis Said to Paul Stoddart, F1 is not a soup kitchen, Ferrari have their own test track, why should they agree to be hobbled even more than they have lately.

If team Ferrari are pricks what does that make Ron Dennis?

[vh-holden]

boycott bridgestone for being so competitive and not telling micelin about the excessive forces that would be on the tyres on the banked corners.

[Mickey T]

Michelin f'ed up in the highest order. Suggesting that the rules be changed because they did so is ridiculous. If Bridgestone had f'ed it up instead you wouldn't hear a single complaint.

James


On the contrary. hark back to interlagos, 2003.

tyre manufacturers were (and still are) allowed to take only one type of wet tyres per race. Bridgestone had a fabulous intermediate, which it chose as its full wet. Michelin took a full wet.

It hammered down and it was monsoonal. Charlie Whiting (the same Charlie Whiting) declared it a safety issue and started the race a) late and, b) behind the safety car for 10 laps or so until it was dry enough for the Bridgestone runners not to fall off. Bridgestone runners that included ferrari.

Show me the difference between the two scenarios?

right, the only difference was that on one hand, the Michelin runners got screwed by both Michelin and the FIA and, on the other, the Bridgestone runners got an FIA safety net after Bridgestone had taken a competitive risk and stuffed up.

In my humble opinion, Michelin screwed up, but discharged its corporate responsibility in the face of what must have been an appallingly difficult commercial situation. It gave the FIA 48 hours to find a solution and the FIA refused to.

The FIA is culpable for this, and the jobs of both Charlie Whiting and Max Mosley look increasingly untenable.

[mandarin]

Ferrari werent even at the meeting of the team bosses.

They left it up to the FIA to decide.

Frank Williams has gone on the record saying it isnt Ferraris fault.

As Ron Dennis Said to Paul Stoddart, F1 is not a soup kitchen, Ferrari have their own test track, why should they agree to be hobbled even more than they have lately.

If team Ferrari are pricks what does that make Ron Dennis?

I wonder why they werent at the meeting?? they knew it only takes one team to VETO. Ecclesstone approached toddt before the meeting... toddt said its up to the FIA and wouldnt give an answer... the FIA cant change the rules unless all ten agree.

Not giving an answer and not turning up means that they have said NO to the proposal.

Ferrari didnt turn up cause they knew they could fool people that dont know the rules....

TODDT."but we werent even there?"


How dumb do you think we are :booty:

Toddt didnt agree... simple as that

shame on ferrari and most of all shame on the FIA

[Frankster_P]

Shame why?
They r looking out for their own interests.

Could u see Ron dennis giving Ferrari any sort of leway?

shame on Michelin pure and simple.

[chris]

I was so pi**ed on Monday morning after getting out of bed at 3.30am to watch the F1 GP from INDY and then to watch the Michelin runners to boycott the race. :mad: So now I would like to get them back by hurting their pockets. If there is anyone out there thinking of purchasing new tyres, Please don't buy MICHELIN. :box:

Timer record ????

[mandarin]

Shame why?
They r looking out for their own interests.

Could u see Ron dennis giving Ferrari any sort of leway?

shame on Michelin pure and simple.


shame on michelin pure and simple???? LOL do you think that bridgestone havent made similar mistakes and got the rules changed to their liking??



LOL we know they are looking after their own interests:bash:


do some reading on brazil 2003 and get back to me :lol:

[Frankster_P]

Brazil 2003 huh?, all the teams had to use dodgy intermediates on a waterlogged track.

The most important influence on the outcome of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix can be traced back to a meeting in October 2002 between the Formula 1 team bosses. They voted unanimously to change the rules to limit the use of wet tyres to just one specification per event. It was designed, it seems, as cost-cutting measure but the result was some rather big repair bills for the teams. The tyre companies decided that to cover as many options as possible they would take intermediates to Interlagos. The problem was that the torrential rain in Brazil was such that the intermediates were just not effective enough, particularly where there was water flowing across the track. The result was some major crashes in the high speed Turn 3, where water was flowing across the road. By the end of the race there were six cars behind the wall at Turn 3, including the Ferrari of Michael Schumacher, Juan Pablo Montoya's Williams, Jenson Button's BAR, both Minardis and Antonio Pizzonia's Jaguar. There were also near-misses for several racers not least Mark Webber who spun at high speed but somehow managed to catch the car without going into the wall.

[Redfox]

No wonder you experienced problems.

You tried fitting their eggs to your car.

Next time, buy their tyres :)
Hahahaha!! ROFL! :p good one!

[mandarin]

Brazil 2003 huh?, all the teams had to use dodgy intermediates on a waterlogged track.

The most important influence on the outcome of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix can be traced back to a meeting in October 2002 between the Formula 1 team bosses. They voted unanimously to change the rules to limit the use of wet tyres to just one specification per event. It was designed, it seems, as cost-cutting measure but the result was some rather big repair bills for the teams. The tyre companies decided that to cover as many options as possible they would take intermediates to Interlagos. The problem was that the torrential rain in Brazil was such that the intermediates were just not effective enough, particularly where there was water flowing across the track. The result was some major crashes in the high speed Turn 3, where water was flowing across the road. By the end of the race there were six cars behind the wall at Turn 3, including the Ferrari of Michael Schumacher, Juan Pablo Montoya's Williams, Jenson Button's BAR, both Minardis and Antonio Pizzonia's Jaguar. There were also near-misses for several racers not least Mark Webber who spun at high speed but somehow managed to catch the car without going into the wall.


LOL... try again :lol:

[Frankster_P]

Ok post your Williams or Mclaren press releases and we can compare.

As the mothers countries teams are always right.

[mandarin]

Ok post your Williams or Mclaren press releases and we can compare.

As the mothers countries teams are always right.


everyone didnt have to run on DODGY intermediates.. what gave you that idea?? you were only allowed one set of wets per race... ferrati deicded on the wrong ones.... Michelins actually ran full wets!!! ferrari intermediates.

Now since ferrari wasnt able to make it around the track safely. the rules were changed so that all cars had to run behind the safety car until the track was dry enough for the bridgestones to be competitive. Funny how that was OK??

dodgy Mclaren press release LOL

thats what happened

Race Director Charlie Whiting
Ross Brawn’s drinking buddy released a letter that he got from Michelin with some smart answers as to why they couldn’t use different tyres on Sunday.

But he’s changed the rules for Bridgestone prior to a race so we’ve been here before. It's surprising nobody’s questioned why Whiting changed the tyre rules at the beginning of the 2003 Brazilian GP.

Back in 2003 you were only allowed to take one wet tyre to races, so you had to make your mind up before the event. Bridgestone arrived at Interlagos with their legendary intermediate tyre that was quite good in wet and mixed conditions. Michelin had a full wet that could run in more rain.

When the heavens opened before the race, Whiting delayed the start because the Bridgestone runners wouldn’t have been able to make it round safely. It was clearly Bridgestone’s fault for not bringing a full wet tyre, but as the argument has gone this weekend – they knew the situation…

After delaying the start the field was then sent round Interlagos behind the Safety Car until enough water was taken off the circuit. Had they released the field when it was suitable for the Michelins on full wets, then Fisichella would never have won the race in his Jordan and Kimi Raikkonen may well have got the win.

Nobody complained because it was a safety issue. Fast forward two years and Whiting is not prepared to compromise in another safety situation. This interpretation of the rules when it suits them makes F1 fans deeply suspicius - it's like there was an agenda here from the FIA.





so whats the difference???????????

[Kirium]

Shame why?
They r looking out for their own interests.

Could u see Ron dennis giving Ferrari any sort of leway?

shame on Michelin pure and simple.

Yeah, Ferrari are so hard done by... :rolleyes:

After all the proposals to improve racing and cut costs in F1 that Ferrari have vetoed, that Jean Todt vetoed the chicane idea comes as no surprise.
If you truly gave a toss about F1, you'd see that Ferrari are the ones damaging the sport more than anyone else, all thanks to an arrogant little frenchman with no regard to the sporting spirit that the team he leads was based on. Enzo Ferrari loved F1, he built road cars to pay to go racing. I think if he were alive today, he'd be disgusted at the way the team that bears his name destroying the sport he loved. More and more people are coming to see that Jean Todt and Ferrari do not care about the sport and the best interests of Formula1. All they care about is winning, and now they are not, they care even less about the sport and only about getting back to winning no matter the cost... The sooner you open your eyes to that, the sooner Ferrari see they are driving away fans with their poor conduct and arrogance. If that happens, maybe, just maybe, Formula 1 can be saved from the bullshit pit it has become. The blame for the current mess lies totally with Maranello and the FIA in Paris and the favors they trade between each other to the detriment of the other teams. Open your eyes and see the truth.

[Frankster_P]

lol ok whatever you say.

The sooner you stop believing the tripe that the Brit and Aussie media keep feeding u the better off you will be.

Why are all you Aussies Williams and Mclaren fans anyway?
I thought u hated the Poms when it comes to Cricket and Rugby and other sports.

Seems when its F1 and Soccer its rule brittania, pathetic

[Swordie]

I think F1 is not worth taking to seriously. It's fun to watch and I’m glad to see an Aussie racing.

[Mickey T]

This from Planet-F1.com:

The following is a copy of the letter the FIA have sent to the seven team principals of the Michelin teams...
'Dear Sir,

Article 151c of the International Sporting Code

You are hereby requested to appear at the forthcoming meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council which is to be held in Paris on 29 June 2005 (FIA – 8 place de la Concorde, 75008 Paris, meeting room “Salle du Comite” at 09:30 hrs to answer charges that, in breach of the above, you committed one or more acts prejudicial to the interests of a competition, namely the 2005 United States Grand Prix and/or to the interests of motor sport generally in that you…
- failed to ensure that you had a supply of suitable tyres for the race and/or
- wrongfully refused to all allow your cars to start the race and/or
- wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race, subject to a speed restriction in one corner which was safe for such tyres as you had available and/or
- combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula One by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race.

And that you failed to notify the stewards of your intention not to race in breach of article 131 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

A full dossier will be sent to you within 48 hours
At this hearing you may assisted by the council of your choice

Should you wish to send us any comments in writing before this meeting we will make sure that they are circulated to the members of the World Motor Sport Council.

Yours faithfully
FIA'




Mosley doesn't get it, does he? still insists he is right! if he wants the works teams to break away and actually start GPWC in 2008, he's going the right way about it. makes me think he's actually got the balls to call their bluff on it, and that's what this is all about.

[VooDoo]

This will destroy the F1. They may get 1 more year out of it but then its all over and the teams will leave for the new comp. F1 has been stagnating for years now and the development is designed to slow/restrict the cars not improve them (although safety is a big concern)

Personally i wouldnt boycott Michelin. Would you want a manufacturer that stands up and admits a mistake and a problem, or one that hides and covers it up. People will debate this for years, it was a very complicated issue with noclear answers that could have worked for all parties. Someone was always going to be disadvantaged.

I'd love to see all teams vote for the FIA management to be sacked and replaced. Thenthey may be ableto save the sport

[mandarin]

lol ok whatever you say.

The sooner you stop believing the tripe that the Brit and Aussie media keep feeding u the better off you will be.

Why are all you Aussies Williams and Mclaren fans anyway?
I thought u hated the Poms when it comes to Cricket and Rugby and other sports.

Seems when its F1 and Soccer its rule brittania, pathetic

Its not tripe.... the details I posted are fact!!

who says I support mclaren or williams?? I love the sport, its that simple. I follow it, I read about it and dont make bullsh1t claims about it. The last race has gone too far.

last weekends issue was caused by Michelin and thats true. Ferrari and the FIA turned it into what it is now.

Mosley is now trying to save face..... He will cause a renegade series to the F1 by 2008 at the latest. Unless he pulls his finger out and realises that he is actually wrong.

putting sanctions on these teams will not help mosleay and his beloved little world. He is making matters worse for himself if he goes ahead with it.

[mad_monaro]

Come on, are you guys for real. Have you all forgotten F1 is a business, and its about winning, and at that level, at what ever cost. Comparring the weekends events to Brazil, how? Brazil was caused by weather, an uncontrolable varible, and was a genuine safety issue with all competitors. Sunday was caused by a Manufactuer making, by their own admision, a not up to scratch product. They were given a option which allowed them to compete, which they declined. How can the blame be pushed onto other parties?? Why change the rules to suit a manufactuer? That is not in the best interests of F1. Take your bias out for whatever team you support and look at the bare facts - to hold Ferrari or the FIA responcible does not make sence, as Ferrari had got their car on the grid no problems, and the FIA have the laws to uphold. I personally am very disappointed for Mark Webber, but am I pointing the finger - no.

[mandarin]

BRAZIL

FACT- Brazil is notorious for bad weather which is why most teams became prepared with full wets

FACT- Safety car was introduced as ferrari could not compete "safely"

FACT- If it hadnt rained that hard ferrari would of had the advantage and their tyre gamble would of paid of

FACT- the right thing was done as otherwise driver safety would of been compromised.


INDY

FACT- Bridgestone had access to indy tyre data that Michelin did not have access to

FACT- They were given an option to compete by the FIA which would of been again dangerous. lets imagine cars slowing down for the turn in front of cars that are planning on flying through. Drivers are egotistical and would of pressed the boundaries as they are competitive by nature. The option supplied by the FIA was a recipe for disaster.

FACT- there was 11 tyre failures one of which sent ralf into the wall. To continue with those tyres would of been ludicrous

FACT- Even a bridgestone running team is slamming the FIA for its decision.

BIGGEST FACT- michelin stuffed up.

FACT- michelin based teams would of raced for no points and given the bridgestone runners the front of the grid if the race was made safe.



Guys, the whole issue here is driver, marshal and spectator safety. It doesnt matter what team or driver you support. Yes F1 is a business, but sacrificing driver safety should not be an option. Asking an F1 driver to go around a corner slowly is like asking an alcoholic to stop drinking.

LOL.... im outta this one now.... How can anyone think driver safety is not paramount.

To the real f1 fans. Lets hope we see positive change out of this whole debarcle. Like Max Mosley resigning :box: