4WD Safety Argument Continues.

[fekason]

From the SMH website comes the following article:

Accident stats show 4WDs the deadliest
June 28, 2005 - 1:24PM
A 16-year study of Australian road accidents shows four wheel drives are far more likely than conventional vehicles to kill or maim other road users.
Monash Uni's Used Car Safety Ratings project, on behalf of the Royal Automobile Club of Victoria, Traffic Accidents Commission and VicRoads, investigated almost 1.5 million crashes in Australia and New Zealand from 1987 to 2003.
RACV chief engineer Michael Case said the typical Australian family sedan offers good crash protection but some small cars still expose occupants to unnecessary risk.
He said Australia's road safety lemons are the Daihatsu Charade and Ford Festiva, noting their safety performance was lower than average and had not improved over successive models.
He said Australian-made family sedans were mostly a good choice second-hand vehicle, and he singled out the Ford Falcon AU, Holden Commodore models VR/VX and the Mitsubishi Magna (1991 to 2003) as "strong performers".
He also said the Toyota Corolla built from 1998 to 2001 also showed "strong design can ensure a strong result even in small cars."
The study assessed 288 of the most popular cars driven on Australian and New Zealand roads, providing information on the impact of vehicle occupancy and other road users.
Four wheel drives were described as providing the same safety for occupants as family sedans but they have greater impact on the occupants of other cars, and particularly pedestrians, cyclists, and motor cyclists.
Pedestrian Council of Australia chairman Harold Scruby called on the federal government to scrap tariff reductions on 4WD vehicles, and to apply lower tariffs to safer vehicles.
People who genuinely needed 4WDs, such as those in remote areas, could be exempted from increased tariffs, he said.
But elsewhere 4WDs should be "taxed off the road".
"I don't think people in Mosman and Toorak should be getting these vehicles at five per cent tax when a Corolla is taxed at 10 per cent," Mr Scruby said.
He also took aim at young drivers in regional areas who drove souped-up utes often adorned with bullbars, aerials and stickers.
"In the bush every young driver wants to drive a Holden ute with a bullbar," he said.
"It's a testosterone thing, it's all about `mine is bigger than yours'."
However, NRMA vehicle policy expert Jack Haley said the high rate of injuries caused by 4WDs was due to the type of vehicle involved, not the behaviour of 4WD drivers.
The same tariffs should be applied to all cars, Mr Haley said.

I don't agree with "taxing them off" the city streets, but I do think the tax concession should be withdrawn. Might only be $1,000 to $2,000, but there would not appear to be any justification for any preferential treatment for 4WD.

[RICHO]

Having driven both 4WD's and cars over the last 10 years. There are many observations I can make on both sides of the argument and pointing the finger at 4WD owners (even though it's great for sensationalist journalism) only tells half the story.

When I had the 4WD I made sure I left adequate gaps between myself and the car in front because I knew that the Exploder would take longer to stop. But do that and EVERY car driver on the roads regards it as an opportunity to jam themselves into the "safety zone" that you've left. When they do as you're approaching traffic lights, it's anchors on and I'm sure that all they see is a grille in their rear view mirror and their response "those damn 4WD owners all tailgate, all drive too close and all drive in an intimidating fashion". It can't be that hard to realise that a 4WD doesn't stop, go or handle as well as a car, so give them room and problems are solved.

Jump back in the car again and YES there is a definite and quite large number of 4WD owners who quite frankly have no idea how to drive. Although I suspect many of them would be the same regardless of the car they were driving. The change lanes without checking blind spots, they do tailgate and when the want to change lanes they just force their way in. It's a weird mix of "mine's bigger than yours" and "I can't see over the wheel or check my mirrors properly".

So who is more guilty??

For mine it's car drivers. Have a look next time you drive and there is a definite culture of damned if I'm letting the bloody 4WD in. Exactly the sort of atttude cr drivers hate in 4WD owners.

The most rediculous thing about it is that the whole saftey debate has reverted to a how many stars does your car have its crash test rating. A 5 star renault and 5 star pugeot etc well whoop dee doo. Those 5 star safe mirco cars are screwed in any collision involving a bigger vehicle. 5 star pugeot versus my XR8?? I'll take the 8 thanks very much. So if it's the drivers of smaller cars that seem least safe on the road from crash statistics why is their no pressure to tax those little death traps off the road??

Why??

Because it's not about road safety at all. It is the ongoing fight by a very vocal minority of greenies to get rid of high fuel consumption vehicles. 4WD's are just the easiest target of the moment...until they're gone that is. And after they've staged their protests they all head off to their antiquated poluntant spewing VW combis for the drive to the next protest. I'll stop by 4WD's and V8's the moment every sigle one of them is driving a Prius!!

[Marco]

He said Australia's road safety lemons are the Daihatsu Charade and Ford Festiva, noting their safety performance was lower than average and had not improved over successive models.


That worries the heck out of me - my fiancee drives a Charade and part of the reason we decided to get one as opposed to some other Tiny Little Car was that I did some research and the 90s models seemed to do okay in crash testing compared to other similar cars.

Now I read they're among the worst performers!

The thing currently has some weird idling problem, might be the perfect excuse to offload it...

[RICHO]

The Ford Festiva was a quality unit built by Kia......

As for your charade it's all relative. Any small car in ANY high speed crash with a larger and heavier car is in all sorts of trouble regardless of its crash rating. If she drives it knowing that most of the other cars out there are bigger and heavier than hers and is carefull she'll be fine. Star ratings are a misleading piece of marketing rubbish unless you are comparing 2 cars of similar weight and dimensions.

Your finacee does however need to very careful about driving into 2 tonne concrete blocks at 60km/h. Although I ca't ever remember seeing one on the road.

[Danv8]

[QUOTE=RICHO]The Ford Festiva was a quality unit built by Kia......


Hope you were joking.
:p

[Danv8]

The thing currently has some weird idling problem, might be the perfect excuse to offload it...[/QUOTE]


Some sand in the oil will help to eradicate the Charade. ;)
Seriously maybe look for Barina or something similar as a replacement.

or


a


V8. :D

[RICHO]

How could I be joking.......... :confused:

Can't go bad mounthing the quality of Korean cars any more. Something about the badging :D

[Danv8]

How could I be joking.......... :confused:

Can't go bad mounthing the quality of Korean cars any more. Something about the badging :D


Must be but I am still feeling nauseous with re-badged Daweoo's.

Yup Focus over Festiva or Fiesta over Festiva.
Opel over Daewoo. I would really know the world has lost the plot if BMW started rebadging Kia's. :eek:

[VRIIClubby]

Just like all the gun bans etc, Its the USER not the equipment, anything is deadly in the wrong (read: DUMB) hands...

[Marco]

Seriously maybe look for Barina or something similar as a replacement.

I was thinking about that today, get my hands on the last of the Opel models - but then I remembered that it doesn't come with ABS :(


or


a


V8. :D

Ah, I like this plan, and then my other half takes delivery of a one-owner, carefully looked after '01 Astra? :cool:

(Think I'll wait for the VE SS, and then give them a year to iron the bugs out first.)

[LSX-438]

I hired a Pajero for a snow trip last weekend, and what an unmitigated peice of crap it was. it handled like a double bed, there is no way my family will ever own anything like it. as far as i am concerned they are dangerous it was an accident waiting to happen.

[Tron2004]

I hired a Pajero for a snow trip last weekend, and what an unmitigated peice of crap it was. it handled like a double bed, there is no way my family will ever own anything like it. as far as i am concerned they are dangerous it was an accident waiting to happen.
Yeah I'm a bit wary of all the 4WD's on the road, but here's something I've never seen a 4WD'er do before...

A couple of months back I came up behind a 4WD which had HSV badges on it. (Sorry, I don't take a great deal of notice of 4WD's because I have zero interest in them, but I thought the HSV badges on a 4WD looked a tad strange).

Anyway, he musta seen me behind him so he's gunned it.

I'm afraid, I'd be a little embarrassed to have HSV emblazoned on my ride if that was the best it could do. :(

[Danv8]

Yeah I'm a bit wary of all the 4WD's on the road, but here's something I've never seen a 4WD'er do before...

A couple of months back I came up behind a 4WD which had HSV badges on it. (Sorry, I don't take a great deal of notice of 4WD's because I have zero interest in them, but I thought the HSV badges on a 4WD looked a tad strange).

Anyway, he musta seen me behind him so he's gunned it.

I'm afraid, I'd be a little embarrassed to have HSV emblazoned on my ride if that was the best it could do. :(

Sounds like a HSV Jackaroo.

[seracing]

I hired a Pajero for a snow trip last weekend, and what an unmitigated peice of crap it was. it handled like a double bed, there is no way my family will ever own anything like it. as far as i am concerned they are dangerous it was an accident waiting to happen.
um ha ok mate :bash:

[LSX-438]

um ha ok mate :bash:

anything weighing 2100kegs jacked up that high, with that much suspension travel and massive profile tyres, just doesnt drive like a normal car. I kind of realised that but was still surprised with how bad it handled in everyday driving. I guess that goes without saying but i think a lot of people expect they should have the same dynamics as a smaller sedan, wrong.

perhaps some are more car-like, i want to try the X5 and territory next.

[OzJavelin]

I owned an '82 Jeep Cherokee for a few years and surprisingly it handled, stopped and rode pretty well for a vehicle with leaf-spring suspension all round. But it was a tank .. and 31" tyres are a lot of reciprocating mass to stop/change-direction in a hurry. Modern 4x4s are more advanced, but fundamentally the same thing .. big, heavy vechicle sitting up high .. generally driven by someones wife taking the kids to school .. usually above the speed limit.

The "safety-in-size" bit is all relative. The family in the Jackaroo will get creamed by the family in the LanCruiser. If I want to drive about in a tank and carry a few kids (what 4x4s are used for most of the time), I'd buy an old 60s-70s Chrysler, Imperial, Caddy, etc. Demolition derby experience has shown them to be almost indestructible ... late 60's C-body Mopars have effectively been banned from demo derbies in the USA 'cos of this.

.. show your kids you love them by driving them to school in a '69 Imperial LeBaron!! (and watch them hide with embarrassment!)

[Merlin]

The 4WD debate has been done so many times on this website always seems to be split 50:50.

Without getting into the driving dynamics of a 4WD or all the other emotive debates the particular article that was posted on page 1's main point is that the research revealed that "4WD's are more likley to kill and maim other road users"

Pretty obvious given their height and weight. "But trucks are heavier and higher" argue 4WD suburban cowboys, yes but trucks serve a purpose a 4WD in the inner city does not.

I have no argument against people owning a 4WD who use it for its intended purpose but I scratch my head and wonder why you would want to drive one everyday in the metropolitan area?