VZ Crewman towing advice (BIG Trailer)

[JezzaB]

Hey guys,
My boss has a stock VY Crewman M6 SS. He tows a massive custom trailer packed to the gills weighing in at around 1900kg's (somedays more).

The problem is that obviously the trailer is way to heavy for a M6 (think the max tow is 1650?) and you basically have to smoke the clutch to get her moving and when it does engage is like a dog off the line.

He's thinking of getting a new VZ A4 SS Crewman with a PBR brake upgrade, headers, zorst and a tune straight away. Basically he wants the Auto for the 2500kg towing, because its recking the ute.

Unfortunatly he can't test one of these baby's out with the trailer on so he's not sure if it could take it or if it would be worth it. Anyone towed this much weight with an auto? Did they change the diff ratio on the VZ or is it still 3.07 for auto?

Thanks for your advice,
Jez

[VooDoo]

Why not a Aventura / CX8. Harrop use one to tow cars all the time and it does it easy. Add a large Auto tranny cooler (maybe a PS cooler as well) and upgraded the diff cover for more oil in the diff. Some minor suspension work and you could easily justify a PD Supercharger (for towing reasons of course) The 4x4 would be very nice for towing.

Have you looked at an upgraded clutch for the crewie? Textralia's will hold up im sure

[OzJavelin]

In a nutshell the powertrain of LS1/A4 Commodore derivative (sedan/wagon/ute) will easily tow 1900kg. I'd place far more faith in A4 than M6 for sustained towing. One of the primary reasons I bought my SV8 auto was towing (horse float) and it's one of the best vehicles I've ever towed with. No fuss, plenty of power, never any trouble from the vehicle in regards to towing. The only problem I have is when a-holes with 4WDs rip up the ground a horse-events. Even with TC gotta be careful where you drive. Be nice to have a Cross8!?

I'd think with the A4 Crewman your boss should have no problems.

[ Good to see people using V8s for something they were designed for .. towing. We seem to forget one reason people used to buy V8 sedans/wagons/utes was space, comfort and power .. not just speed. A worked WRX could probably outrun most of us, but it'll never pull a tandem horse float! ]

[Nursing_Mother]

worked WRX could probably outrun most of us, but it'll never pull a tandem horse float! ]
A WRX would still lose,even when we are towing :lol:

[v8 ute]

I use my Crewman for towing all the time. It's an A4 with 3.73 gears cold air, HSV 4-1's, twin 2.5" exhaust and mafless edit. I tow a car trailer @ 850kg with my 1 tonner for example @ 1500kg thats 2350kg and it has no probs at all even out excellerating cars uphill.

[JezzaB]

How do you guys with the auto's find it from a standing start? Thats the main problem. Once moving it pulls like a 15yo.

[One tonner]

Man don’t get me started on this again, you probably saw this anyway but just in case you didn’t here it is.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=41224

Note the diff cover from Harrop.
My advice would not to buy a Holden Commodore for such a job as you are describing.
Maybe Ok for the odd horse float or car trailer but not "day in day out hard Yacka".
It pains me to say this, as I love my V8s and I am Holden through and through but I feel it is true.
These new Commodores are just not tuff enough for the tradesman.
If it were me a Patrol or Navara would be a better-suited Vehicle.
This is what I will replace the Tonner with when the time comes.

[SS-Dan]

Id get the Cross8, one of my Friends is a boat dealer and tows around 2500kg 23 foot Wakeboard boats all the time with no problems but he dose run electronic brakes on most trailers. Pulling one of these boats up and down a boat ramp is a good test.
Plus you can pick up a Cross8 cheaper than a SS crewman at the moment, there's is a $13k factory bonus.

[DEVOJET]

I tow an 800kg jetsprint boat behind my VY SS crewman M6 and I find it struggles to get moving from a standstill. but once up and going it is great. I plan to change the diff ration to 4.1 which will give a first gear ratio the same as my old AU 6cylinder M5. The AU had no probs towing the boat from a standstill with half the power.

[Ryzz]

I tow an 800kg jetsprint boat behind my VY SS crewman M6 and I find it struggles to get moving from a standstill. but once up and going it is great. I plan to change the diff ration to 4.1 which will give a first gear ratio the same as my old AU 6cylinder M5. The AU had no probs towing the boat from a standstill with half the power.
One of the biggest things i think you'll find is that the LS1 doesnt make a lot of torque down low. They make all the power in the mid-high range. Nothing beats the old 5L Blocks for low down torque!!! :bow:

[Mongy]

I use my Crewman for towing all the time. It's an A4 with 3.73 gears cold air, HSV 4-1's, twin 2.5" exhaust and mafless edit. I tow a car trailer @ 850kg with my 1 tonner for example @ 1500kg thats 2350kg and it has no probs at all even out excellerating cars uphill.

I think the key here is what Lindsey has done, changed the diff gears to something more suitable for towing. 3.08 ratio is never really going to cut the rug with any sort of weight no matter if it is M6 or A4. The higher the weight the lower the ratio to make it easier for the car to pull away and give greater engine braking.

[Blown 454 AWD]

AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD.. AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..AWD..

If you go AWD, in this situation, it would be an experience you will never forget or regret.

Just don't go above 400 fwkW and you won't break anything.

Mine was fitted with an 1800 kg tow kit from new.

It is a bit slower with a 2-ton boat on the back, just noticeable! :D

[OzJavelin]

I tow an 800kg jetsprint boat behind my VY SS crewman M6 and I find it struggles to get moving from a standstill.
Geez, are you trying to run a standing qtr of sub-15s with that boat attached? My stock 235kw auto accelerates fine with two 500kg horse in the tandem float. I am *never* holding up traffic 'cos I can't accelerate nor cruise at normal speeds. Only issue might be going downhill (crappy standard Holden brakes)


One of the biggest things i think you'll find is that the LS1 doesnt make a lot of torque down low. They make all the power in the mid-high range. Nothing beats the old 5L Blocks for low down torque!!!
.. except a 440CI Mopar, 425CI Buick, 500CU Caddy, 455CU Pontiac, 428CU Ford, etc, etc, etc :) ..

[Ryzz]

.. except a 440CI Mopar, 425CI Buick, 500CU Caddy, 455CU Pontiac, 428CU Ford, etc, etc, etc :) ..
Yeah yeah....always an exception to the rule :rolleyes:

[Avalanche]

I do a bit of towing with the avalanche only around 1000 kg at the moment it has the self levelling rear suspension and tows nicely, how long that will last i dont know, but if u were towing any thing behind a cross 8 good luck. The vz i drove would drag the arse if anything was put in the back regardless of putting any weight on the tow hitch ,but that is something only holden can answer. A quick trip to your suspension agent for a set of custom valved bilsteins & a pair of ploy air springs approx $1500.00 and your set. Maybe a brake upgrade as well. I was going to put a set of poly airbags on the avalanche when hsv told me that it didnt have self levelling suspension, but surprise surprise the tosser didnt jnow what he was talking about. I am thinkin of getting overide disk brakes on my next trailer as having some idiot wire up a control unit in my avalanche for electric brakes scares the crap out of me. And it doesnt matter where they put it it is always in the way. Overide brakes you can hook up to what ever car u want. My thoughts any way :D

[OzJavelin]

BTW: I love the suspension setup on Holdens factory 2100kg towkit .. airshocks. How hi-tech ..

[V8R]

hmm, i remmeber our old '79 VB SLE had those :P

btw, a 427 stroker whould be the trick in the crewie for towing.. failing that (or maybe in concert with), a 3.9 diff change..

[Y2kGoofball]

hmm interesting topic, we're smack bang in the middle of financial related paperwork to buy an Adventra for a similar reason.

We tow a 2000 kg or thereabouts half cabin boat every few weekends here and there. The current car, VS Exec, just cant handle it. We had work done to the transmission to try and get the car to last another 4 or so years, but after the work we took the boat out and even along the flat motorway the trandmission sounds likes shes gonna blow (note to all, dont trust all transmission places)

We considered a crewman, we didnt really want a station wagon and a ute would come in handy, but we also considered the odd time we'd need to use it as a "family" car, or for the trips down the coast to our holiday house (towing the boat still ...) and found the crewman rear seat didnt suit, and we've heard on longer trips its fairly uncomfortable.

Although people have whinged "Ive heard nothing but bad things about the Adventras" the only thing anyones acctually mentioned thats wrong is the V6 is a bit thirsty.

We factored in all the other bits and pieces, Commodore station wagon type size and drive, AWD for the reasons mentioned elsewhere in this topc ... the slippery boat ramps, all the EBD and all the braking cr@p which cant hurt to have when towing a load, and the 2100 towing package.

[Chris52]

hmm, i remmeber our old '79 VB SLE had those :P

btw, a 427 stroker whould be the trick in the crewie for towing.. failing that (or maybe in concert with), a 3.9 diff change..


3.9 diff gears for V8 Crewmans with Dana live axle diff are a myth. Only options apart from std 3.46's are 3.73 and 4.10. If towing with the manual, trust me - go with the 4.10's.As for the auto's in theCrewman's and the Cross 8's I am pretty sure that they are the heavier duty 4L65 A4 Boxes.

Cheers

Chris.

[ACT_Cross8]

3.9 diff gears for V8 Crewmans with Dana live axle diff are a myth. Only options apart from std 3.46's are 3.73 and 4.10. If towing with the manual, trust me - go with the 4.10's.As for the auto's in theCrewman's and the Cross 8's I am pretty sure that they are the heavier duty 4L65 A4 Boxes.

Cheers

Chris.

Yep, my Cross8 is 4L65 as far as I know. What do you know about diff swaps for the AWD's? Can it be done?

[hqracer]

Just a question...what is the stroy towing with the commodore with independant rear suspension....i thought as soon as you put any realy weight on the back of it the wheels squat outwards and you chew the inside of the back tyres out real fast! Any comments?

[OzJavelin]

In my experience with VY1 .. nope .. sits nice with the high tech Holden towing package. Tyres don't chew out (by are religiously rotated). Remember this is only up to 10% of the max weight; ie. 210kg. That's only too big fat guys in the back seat :)

That craptacular "swing-axle" type arrangement which caused Commodores to "squat" was fixed in the VXII's wasn't it?