VK SS and VL SS

[Marco]

Was there a VK SS and a VL SS, and were they Holdens or HDT cars?

Reason I ask is that I was looking through a book that Holden puts out called “The Holden Heritage” that gives a rundown of each model and the variants and engines etc. available in each, and under the VK and VL they say there was an SS.

I’ve seen a few examples of the red VH SS around, and I’d just always assumed there hadn’t been another one until the VN, because I can’t ever remember seeing a VK or VL with SS badges on it that wasn’t a HDT car (Group 3, Group A etc).

If they’re around, they must be bloody rare…

[Smitty]

Holden released VK and VL SS models

Brock took other models in VK..Lemans Grp3 as HDT models
also
Holden released the VK SS GrpA ..aka the Blue Meanie
this was never a HDT model, but HDT could and did do mods etc
People assume the SS GrpA is a HDT model coz Brockie
was involved with the advertising (who remembers the poster
on the straight at Sandown...?) but the GrpA was always a Holden
They never went to HDT in Port Melbourne (unlike VH and VC HDT cars)
I know, it was my job at Holden to control the cars which went to HDT
:cool:

with VL, the standard SS was a Holden but Peter Perfect also
had an extra cost 'Plus' pack available thru HDT
you got his signature on the guard and
a lil' box of crystal on the parcel shelf :rolleyes:

hth

cheers

[Pickles]

"SS" has long been a Holden "name". As far as commodore is concerned "SS" was first used in the standard VH Holden range(not HDT). These cars were red, & could be had with either a 253 or 308 Holden V8-the trim in these cars was the same as used in the HDT cars, but they were Holdens, & never were part of the HDT range. In fact, to the "uneducated", these cars LOOKED very like the genuine "Brock-HDT" Group 1,2, or 3, which of course had modified engines & suspensions etc. In fact some dealers tried to pass these off as genuine HDT cars. This did not impress Brock, consequently with the introduction of the VK range, HDT took over production of the "SS", as well as producing their normal Group 111. The HDT VK "SS" is actually a very good package, as it has exactly the same engine (186kw) as the group 111,also has scheel interior etc. All four of the Group A's also were branded "SS", & of course "SS" is still used by Holden. Cheers, Pickles.

[seldo]

"SS" has long been a Holden "name". As far as commodore is concerned "SS" was first used in the standard VH Holden range(not HDT). .....
Actually, being a pedantic old bugga, the the SS name first came out on the HQ SS which was a Belmont (poverty pack) with the big 253 :eyes: and 4 speed. It went a bit better than the red six, but not much

[dadem0n]

with VL, the standard SS was a Holden but Peter Perfect also
had an extra cost 'Plus' pack available thru HDT
you got his signature on the guard and
a lil' box of crystal on the parcel shelf :rolleyes:

hth

cheers

Should read the standard VL SS GrpA was a holden but brock produced a VL SS GrpA Plus Pack with goodies :)

There are standard VK SS but no VL SS. Only VL SS GrpA.

Hope thats as clear as mud :D

[Smitty]

Should read the standard VL SS GrpA was a holden but brock produced a VL SS GrpA Plus Pack with goodies :)

There are standard VK SS but no VL SS. Only VL SS GrpA.

Hope thats as clear as mud :D

correcto..
I mistakenly left out the GrpA comment on the VL when hacking away at the keyboard ...thanks
to clarify..there was NO VL SS, only a SS GrpA which came with
or without PBrocks siggie

cheers

[Marco]

So that VL SS Group A was the maroon coloured one?

[Smitty]

"..snip... This did not impress Brock, consequently with the introduction of the VK range, HDT took over production of the "SS", as well as producing their normal Group 111. The HDT VK "SS" is actually a very good package, as it has exactly the same engine (186kw) as the group 111,also has scheel interior etc. .

sorry
but the standard VK SS was only ever a Holden
hope this helps....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/VKSSCommBrochure.jpg

[ssvyredute]

smitty on the redbook site nothing came up under holden commodore but i found this under holden brock http://www.redbook.com.au/vehiclesearch/price.asp?key=HOLD85GS

[Smitty]

hmmmm
thats a bit confusing alright
but I believe Holden..I was working there at the time
I saw the bloody things being made
and it was my job to work out how much it cost GMH
to make EACH one of them :confused:

or go here-
Holden show the VK SS as one of the Holden range of VK Commodores-
www.holden.com.au/images/sc18_downloads/brochures/Holden_Heritage_Part_Two.pdf


or here
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/corporateinfo/history/history.jsp?link=historical
if anyone wants to download ..all of the GMH history

cheers

[JT]

I always thought that the VKSS was HDT built,don't they have HDT build no.s?

[plonkerchops]

I always thought that the VKSS was HDT built,don't they have HDT build no.s?

damn beat me to it JT . I used to have a white HDT VK ( bloody good car it was too as someone else i think mentioned ) And I too thought that they all had the HDT build plate on the firewall. Mine had the Scheel seats ( and they were beaut too ) MOMO steering wheel and gearknob...HDT spoilers and the cold air tray ( which didnt nothing to help the thing overheat )
It had the opened up intake manifold and X rods ( not sure of all of them at that stage had them though )
It had all the SS markings like whats in the picture posted..but had a better front spoiler and grill
But I digress..they werent all touched by HDT in some way???

[Smitty]

I always thought that the VKSS was HDT built,don't they have HDT build no.s?
yeah ...good point
and that reminds me,
I had a VK SS as a company hack while at Holden
and I am sure there was no HDT plate on the dash and I am pretty certain
(it WAS 20 year ago) there was no build plate in the engine bay either...

hth

cheers

[Redhot_57]

Ive always had a different view on how the HDT cars (VK and VL) were built. True enough, the base car was assembled at Holden, which in the case of the VK SS and VK SS Group 3 was basically a BT1 (Police pack V8) or maybe even XV2. Remember, in those days, the BT1s got the same big valve Brock heads, matched inlet manifold, modified dizzy and whatever else was std on the SS motor.

The modified heads (by Perfectune) were delivered to Holden and fitted to the cars on the line. The cars were then delivered to HDT where they were finished off, ie. body kits, bilstein shocks, trim/badging, and whatever options were ordered.

Not sure about the VK Group A. As was said by another poster here, I believe the VK Group A was actually produced by Holden, not HDT, although still had a HDT build plate as no doubt Brock had considerable imput. But I have also heard HDT again did the final assembly, so who knows?

They are all awesome and very rare cars though, I cant remember the last time I saw one outside a car show.

[Pickles]

sorry
but the standard VK SS was only ever a Holden
hope this helps....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/VKSSCommBrochure.jpgSorry Smitty, you are incorrect! ALL VK SS's carried HDT Build Numbers, & were genuine HDT cars. In the photo you have posted, which is an HDT advertisement, from the "old days", you'll note the 0-400 time of 14.9, & the 0-100 time of 6.7. No "ordinary" Holden of 1985 would get anywhere near those times! As I've said the VK SS had the Brock Group 111 engine in it!! Cheers, Pickles.

[SLE355]

A mate of mine has a VK SS and i thought he told me that the motor's in the SS didn't have roller rockers like the GroupA Brock's?

[JT]

A mate of mine has a VK SS and i thought he told me that the motor's in the SS didn't have roller rockers like the GroupA Brock's?
The GroupA's had roller rockers so they could be homologated for racing

[plonkerchops]

Sorry Smitty, you are incorrect! ALL VK SS's carried HDT Build Numbers, & were genuine HDT cars. In the photo you have posted, which is an HDT advertisement, from the "old days", you'll note the 0-400 time of 14.9, & the 0-100 time of 6.7. No "ordinary" Holden of 1985 would get anywhere near those times! As I've said the VK SS had the Brock Group 111 engine in it!! Cheers, Pickles.
No not ALL had them had the Group 3 motor in ..there was a Group 3VK... :drool:
Now that someone mentioned it mine had a large dizzy cap with an HDT sticker on ...which I still have as its cracked..and roller rockers though they werent the u-beaut ones that the group A had...didnt stop it from chewing out the cam in true Holden style either :D .

[Smitty]

Sorry Smitty, you are incorrect! ALL VK SS's carried HDT Build Numbers, & were genuine HDT cars. In the photo you have posted, which is an HDT advertisement, from the "old days", you'll note the 0-400 time of 14.9, & the 0-100 time of 6.7. No "ordinary" Holden of 1985 would get anywhere near those times! As I've said the VK SS had the Brock Group 111 engine in it!! Cheers, Pickles.


hmmm
still not sure
that photo I posted is NOT a HDT advertisement
that brochure (the one above) is part of the HOLDEN VK brochure
that I got (and still have) when I had my company VK SS
that brochure covers the whole VK range from Exec to SS

anyone remember this....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/VKbrochure_front.jpg

and
then there is the last page..with the SS listed as a Holden model
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/VKBrochure_last.jpg

and then
the more I think about it, the more I am certain
I had NO HDT build plate on the car.
My SS had no rear spoiler and no skirts either.
(coz i didn't add them as options)

and then there is engines???
what Holdens did with engines during VK was diabolical!
Us GMH employees in Traffic and Costing trying to track production and sales went bananas, crazy....
why?
VK started with the L31 (308 normal) at 126kw (auto or manual)
and then GMH later reduced the size to 304 (for racing ) and that engine got called LV2 plus there were options of V5H (which got added to ANY manuals built until the SS Grp A build was finished) or A9L which was the ONLY motor in the Blue meanie.
And
then there was the V7X which was a half tricked up LV2.... and to complicate it, the BT1 police pack manuals also got the V5H and then the later V7X engines

After the SS, I got a VK Berlina 304 with M21..it came all the goodies
CAI, B cast big valve heads, blueprinted Quaddie and dizzie, Grp A zorst
FE2 LSD and I know it never went to Bertie St...
so really
its all a bit of a dogs breakfast.... I reckon :eek:


so
I might finish by quoting Mr Brock.............

With VC there was just one Brock Commodore – the HDT based on the Holden SL/E model – but with the VH, the choices multiplied. Come 1984 and the VK brought a veritable Disneyland of options. A HDT Commodore was no longer easy to define or even visualise.

Certainly there was the ex-factory SS and the top-line Group Three, but there were also HDT-improved SLs, Belinas and Calais. Indeed there was nothing to stop buyers from specifying an HDT-improved wagon.

GM-H option pack BTI gave the Australian Police forces their Holden pursuit cars, but also provided a basis for the VK SS. Essentially, BTI brought a sports suspension package – big-valve cylinder heads, a tachometer and anti-glare mirror. Cars actually destined for the Police force scored an extra control check on the speedo.

Although the BTI pack was there from the start of the VK in March 1984, the SS didn’t arrive until well into the second half of the year. Meanwhile, the BTI provided the HDT with an excellent basis for some specials. One was the LM 5000, which was sold between February and August 1984. This was just a BTI with a cosmetic kit and trick wheels. And then later, for those who could manage without the full-on Brock imagery, the SS was fine.....


I am still confused....I think :lol:

cheers

[Smitty]

..and roller rockers though they werent the u-beaut ones that the group A had...didnt stop it from chewing out the cam in true Holden style either :D .

guess who was using the wrong oil....
at a guess a Castrol product

I did cam swapos on quite a few Holden V8s during the 80s
coz the cam had lost a lobe (generally the last 2 at the back)

a change to Penrite or Mobil oils stopped that

hth

cheers

[plonkerchops]

guess who was using the wrong oil....
at a guess a Castrol product

I did cam swapos on quite a few Holden V8s during the 80s
coz the cam had lost a lobe (generally the last 2 at the back)

a change to Penrite or Mobil oils stopped that

hth

cheers
not me Ive used Penrite exclusively for about 16 odd years
Mind you whoever owned it before me must have used treacle judging by the state of it when I pulled it down

[plonkerchops]

In regards to the confusing engine numbers with the VK
the guy who wrote this is the site administrator for Brockcommodores.com\


http://hometown.aol.com.au/Commodorenut/VKV8info.htm

just to add tothe confusion :D :cool:

[Pickles]

Hi again, been away for a few days-took the Monaro to Bathurst!!-but back to the point- Smitty's post depicts a picture of an "H.D.T." VK SS. They were ALL fitted with the HDT Group 111 engine (no rollers), scheel interior, HDT 15" aero wheels(as distinct from Group 111 16' aeros), and they ALL carried the all important HDT build plate. If it hasn't got a build plate, then it's not a genuine VK SS. As I've said don't confuse the VK SS, with the VH SS which was not a H.D.T. car. I spent a lot of time at H.D.T. in the "Good old Days"- it was a great place. Cheers, Pickles.

[Corza Ican Broc]

You would be right.. The VK SS was produced orginally by GM.. Alot of conflict between HDT and GM at this time created confusion for many. GM produced the engine A9L prefix VC for VK SS, then HDT finished off production with there unknown (not by all) modifications. Special options were available including the V7X. But hey not much organisation back then, these engines where put in many strange places.. Have you ever stumbled across one?? Or know someone who has one??

[BLQWN]

I had a VKSS with build no and all above mentioned gear on it, but with no rear spoiler or side skirts. got the authenticity letter for it and found it a great car, it ran 14.65, it was an auto, yes, someone had it fitted at the W.A. dealership as they wanted their missus to drive it too. The best way to tell if it's dinkum is the chassis #. it should start with BVK..... not just VK. this signifies it as a Brock HDT modified car.
cheers n beers

[Morgasshk]

@ The initial thread starter (sorry can't remember back one page... lol )

where do you go to check out cars???? There are fine examples of VK SS's, VL Group A's and VH SS, HDT's, VC HDT's etc, out every week at harry's, aspley macca's, city cruising, and car shows all around brisbane.. whereabouts are you???

[YLD346]

http://www.brock05.com/

This site should help, if you got to the menu on the left hand side, peter perfect, then the road cars. There is a fair bit of info on all of them.

[Roger]

Well, I may as well add to the confusion......& this is all recollections

And here is a statement that I may get shot down with, but I think all VK's had the 304 (4.9L) because of the homologation.

Any VK V8 manual (not Grp A, 1, 2 or 3 - all HDT), had the 'B' casting heads (big valvers) - the autos got the 'small' or standard heads.

I thought as the brochure above indicates, there was an SS - but it was all Holden - no HDT involvement, as it wasn't a A, 1, 2 or 3.

An exec manual got the big valve heads, same as an SS, a police pack (auto or man exec primarily & not 'available' to Joe Public ??) also got the big valve heads.

Could you get a SS (i.e no A, 1, 2 or 3) with an auto ?? Don't think you could.

A Grp A - definitely an HDT, obviously got the Crane cam, red painted motor, X rods, etc, etc. An option was the T5 instead of the M21 ???? (& why the hell wouldn't you ???)

I thought, a Grp 3 was pretty much the Grp A motor (maybe not the Crane cam - as it was approaching XU1 idle) & perhaps the Grp 1s & 2s were built by Holden but still wore 'HDT' build plates ????

I saw a VK Calais with a T5 - factory fitted, so I think the myriad of options on a VK was available, no matter what you got, which maybe why everyone has a different idea on how it was.

:cool:

[Smitty]

http://www.brock05.com/

This site should help, if you got to the menu on the left hand side, peter perfect, then the road cars. There is a fair bit of info on all of them.

thats a good site
a better one is www.brockcommodores.com
these guys are crazy about their Commodores
they list full specs for every model ever produced :eek:

hth

cheers

[Smitty]

Well, I may as well add to the confusion......& this is all recollections

And here is a statement that I may get shot down with, but I think all VK's had the 304 (4.9L) because of the homologation.
from memory no..the first ones had 308s, not 304's


Any VK V8 manual (not Grp A, 1, 2 or 3 - all HDT), had the 'B' casting heads (big valvers) - the autos got the 'small' or standard heads.
again afaik..no. Some of the early 308 manuals got the left over VC type
big valve head (which is NOT the later better B cast head)


I thought as the brochure above indicates, there was an SS - but it was all Holden - no HDT involvement, as it wasn't a A, 1, 2 or 3.
imo, there is confusion over this. My VK SS had no HDT badging or build number and never went near Bertie St. later ones did get a HDT build number and a small HDT sticker on them


A Grp A - definitely an HDT, obviously got the Crane cam, red painted motor, X rods, etc, etc. An option was the T5 instead of the M21 ???? (& why the hell wouldn't you ???)

I saw a VK Calais with a T5 - factory fitted, so I think the myriad of options on a VK was available, no matter what you got, which maybe why everyone has a different idea on how it was.

The T5 was a HDT option. No VK (any model) was ever fitted in the factory with a T5. It was simply never listed on any of the Production broadcast sheets or vehicle BOMS*. The M21 and M40 were the only FACTORY transmissions. HDT would plate the vehicle with the T5 if fitted.

also lots say the long range tank was factory fitted. It was not.
In fact the LR tank on VK was never totally legal as it never complied with emissions regs (according to GMH engineers at the time)

* and I used to spend all day looking at the build sheets and vehicle Bill of Materials
....it was my job at GMH!

hth

cheers

[QIKMIK]

Should read the standard VL SS GrpA was a holden but brock produced a VL SS GrpA Plus Pack with goodies :)

There are standard VK SS but no VL SS. Only VL SS GrpA.

Hope thats as clear as mud :D
Just thought I'd add that the VL SS Group A (and associated Plus Pack) were Holden/Brock models and the VL Group A SS was the TWR/HSV/Holden Walkinshaw.

Mick

[Corza Ican Broc]

What about the VK SL Group A, (1985). Does anyone know about these? Holden Or HDT?? What engine were they meant to have and what options were available??? Blue, Black or Red what does this specify??

[Smitty]

VK SL GrpA????

all details here -

http://www.brockcommodores.com/Fact%20Files/vkslgroupa.htm

hth

cheers

[NewV8]

The standerd VK 4.9L should have been good for a 15sec, wasn't it??

[Pickles]

The standerd VK 4.9L should have been good for a 15sec, wasn't it??
A VERY WELL TUNED VK Group A, with Brock driving, would JUST get under 15 secs!
Cheers, Pickles.

[Smitty]

A VERY WELL TUNED VK Group A, with Brock driving, would JUST get under 15 secs!
Cheers, Pickles.

your memory is good
back in about 1983 or was it '84
one of the car mags got John Harvey to do a ¼mile
in a brockified VH SS GrpIII (or was it a VK?....)
result?
about 14.8 from memory (and that was on about the 3rd try)

hth

cheers

[BLUE-SS]

Just to clarify a few things HDT related:

The VK SS was Indeed an HDT build. Why else would they be allowed in the HDT Owners club as only build plated cars are eligible.

The VH however was a holden build.

Information here:

VH SS (HDT Group 1)
http://www.brockcommodores.com/Fact%20Files/vhgroup1.htm

VK SS (HDT)
http://www.brockcommodores.com/Fact%20Files/vkss.htm