VY/VZ Adventra LS1's - How's the Power Diff Achieved

[madder]

What changes were made to upgrade the LS1 Adventra from 235kw to 250kw?

Any change of the exhaust etc. or was it just in the computer and the electronic throttle?

Thinking about a VY but would like it to move. Also what can be done to make it actually sound like a V8?

Thanks,

Jase

[VX-355]

I have just bought a VZ HSV Avalanche. I have had Pacemaker headers fitted and a twin 2 1/2 with no rear muffler fitted and it sounds F**king awesome.

[who_me_?]

I have just bought a VZ HSV Avalanche. I have had Pacemaker headers fitted and a twin 2 1/2 with no rear muffler fitted and it sounds F**king awesome.

Can us missing two cylinders and much fruit please see some pics ?
(especially inside ?)

Did you get a good deal ?

[GHZ28]

I have a 04 LX8 and have started tuning a friend's VZ and the tune in the VZ is pretty agressive compared to the VY2. In fact very similar to the VZ SS.

Still a long way to go with this one, it is not very often available, but will get back to Willowbank in the not too distant future.

Stock VZ in April ran 15.8 at 88, I never ran mine stock, so have no comparison to base on. Mine did 14.6 @96 though.

Trying to work out how to post a photo of mine now that it is lowered, used all Holden parts, FE2 from a sedan mostly, very cheap.

Edit.....

just realised I can not post attachments.....

[Chris52]

What changes were made to upgrade the LS1 Adventra from 235kw to 250kw?

Any change of the exhaust etc. or was it just in the computer and the electronic throttle?

Thinking about a VY but would like it to move. Also what can be done to make it actually sound like a V8?

Thanks,

Jase

I,m guessing that the 15kw increase is attributed to going from a single 2 1/4 exhaust to a twin 2 1/4 system as per VZ SS Crewman (235kw - single pipe) compared to VZ SS Sedan (250kw - twin pipes).

Cheers

Chris.

[GHZ28]

Thinking about a VY but would like it to move. Also what can be done to make it actually sound like a V8?

Thanks,

Jase

Jase as mentioned above, there were some major changes to the programming, not sure on the exhaust, mine was always dual 2.25 pipes. The LX8s did have a more throaty exhaust note than say the SV8 of the same era thats for sure.

Mine has an X-Force cat back, normal intake mods, and on the 96 mph run ran a mafless tune with MAF in place. A tune on an Adventra or X8 produces the same results as an SS basically, just the weight penalty is a big hit.

An edited X8 from my experience will 0-60 mph quicker than a stock SS.

I don't have access to a 4 wheel dyno, but analysing my timing slips using the good old Moroso calculator, 4400lb at 95 mph in the quarter comes out to 290 HP on the ground....216 kw, so without headers or any such mods that s ballpark for most tunes.

Go for it, they can go alright.

Garry

[madder]

Thanks for your replies guys. A much as I love the BA XR8 Ute I need something with four doors as I hate having to leave it home when we take guests or family out, then we have to use the old Saab 9000 N.A. 2.3l. Not only do I want four doors but need space in back for the dobermans and don't want to lose the good ol V8 power.

I can get partner discounts on the Territory but besides being overweight and underpowered they are still expensive when optioned up to a decent level.

Due to the Adventra's shakey start and unfair comparisons with the Terri the VY's are coming onto the second hand market in the low $40k region and if I can get decent grunt out of one then that's the way I'll go.

Garry, I'm looking at a CX8 as the LX8's are heavier and out of my range, how's the driveline standing up to the punishment with your mods? Have you had many issues with the machine in any way, incl trim paint etc.?

What's to like and dislike?

Cheers,

Jase

[GHZ28]

Garry, I'm looking at a CX8 as the LX8's are heavier and out of my range, how's the driveline standing up to the punishment with your mods? Have you had many issues with the machine in any way, incl trim paint etc.?

What's to like and dislike?


Hi Jase,

To be honest I drive the thing like an old grandma 99.9% of the time, it is a work car and very much in the public eye. About the only time I give it a hard time is a little bit of tuning, and the few runs it has done at Willowbank, so I expect the driveline to handle it all quite OK.

I had some issues with pre-delivery damage to paintwork, but that was sorted to my satisfaction by the dealer, and they replaced the roof racks as well. They had started to corrode under the paint. I did have an extended series of attempts by two dealers to repair the reversing sensors. Ended up I diagnosed and fixed the problem myself. It was just slack assembly of the tow bar plug, done by the dealer. One wire not properly seated, and it happened to be the one which detected the reed switch which is supposed to indicate whether or not a trailer is plugged in, if one is, then the sensors are disabled. Mine were intermittent for about 9 months.

Apart from those things, it has been just fine.

Really nice now that it has been lowered by 70mm using FE2 suspension components, though I have been warned that at the limit.....there might be a slight bump steer with the rack end angles. (very slightly uphill)

But, my observations are negative, and they look to be very similar to the Coupe 4 anyway so HSV don't seem to think it will be a problem.

So generally I am very happy, for a heavy V8 AWD vehicle, the economy is on par with many others who drive a bit harder then me in RWD cars, mine is averaging in the high 12s to mid 13s per 100km with the MAF tune on 95 RON fuel. Mainly travelling in the Brisbane suburbs with occasional trips to the City.

One thing I have noticed is that for the past month I have used 95 RON rather than 98 RON fuel and there is some dark deposits starting in the exhaust outlets. It wipes out with a finger, but 12000 km of Ultimate did not produce any visible deposits. Just shows there is a difference. So back to Ultimate for me.


Garry

[Swordie]

Thanks for your replies guys. A much as I love the BA XR8 Ute I need something with four doors as I hate having to leave it home when we take guests or family out, then we have to use the old Saab 9000 N.A. 2.3l. Not only do I want four doors but need space in back for the dobermans and don't want to lose the good ol V8 power.

I can get partner discounts on the Territory but besides being overweight and underpowered they are still expensive when optioned up to a decent level.

Due to the Adventra's shakey start and unfair comparisons with the Terri the VY's are coming onto the second hand market in the low $40k region and if I can get decent grunt out of one then that's the way I'll go.

Garry, I'm looking at a CX8 as the LX8's are heavier and out of my range, how's the driveline standing up to the punishment with your mods? Have you had many issues with the machine in any way, incl trim paint etc.?

What's to like and dislike?

Cheers,

Jase

In an article in Wheels Hot Tuner edition earlier this year it discusses a supercharged Adventra from Starr running over 400KW (around 450 from memory). The article mentions the 4WD system is based on what the Hummer uses. Based on that it should take a bit of punishment. After reading the article I wouldn't mind one.

The other day I saw a B4 Subaru in the wet plant the foot off the lights. I was mightily impressed with the way it accelerated hard with a lack of wheel spin. An Adventra would probably deliver similar advantages. I had a chat to the guy who owns the car and he has taken on a SS’s in similar conditions and it came of second best.

[GHZ28]

In an article in Wheels Hot Tuner edition earlier this year it discusses a supercharged Adventra from Starr running over 400KW (around 450 from memory). The article mentions the 4WD system is based on what the Hummer uses. Based on that it should take a bit of punishment. After reading the article I wouldn't mind one.

The other day I saw a B4 Subaru in the wet plant the foot off the lights. I was mightily impressed with the way it accelerated hard with a lack of wheel spin. An Adventra would probably deliver similar advantages. I had a chat to the guy who owns the car and he has taken on a SS’s in similar conditions and it came of second best.

Yes from what I have seen the AWD system is based on the proven GM US powertrain. The drive shafts are the same as the RWD vehicles, the only concern is the small front differential size. But with only 1/3 of the power going that way even my diff man says it will be OK in normal use. The centre differential is the same as the Terri, apart from one using gear drive and one chain drive.

And yes the wet is fun, launch at full throttle no worries, just have to remember how quickly that many kW gets you to the speed limit. Also have to be aware of RWD Utes in front on uphill wet starts.....had a Brisbane Council one come backwards at me last week during our wet day for the winter. Single spinner V6 Holden one with no load on, and a young driver.

Garry

[Blown 454 AWD]

Starr's is 400 fwkW, may be 420 fwkW on a good day, mine has had heads, cam & exhaust from heads back on top of Starr's, they told me they expected 470 to 480 kW (flywheel) out of mine @ 10 psi boost with 825 to 875 nm of torque @ 15C. :D

Drive train is fine with the exception of the auto, as long as you don't go over 400 fwkW and put a stally in you should be fine, after this you need a 4L80E and serous money. :confused:

With decent oil, the diffs are fine, doughnuts last about 20 k and need replacing. (I have done 20 k now)

Remember you are dividing the power by 4 with AWD.

So if you had rear wheel drive only and 300 rwkW, you are possibly being harder than I am on the rear axle.

Glad to answer any questions

[madder]

Thanks again guys.

Garry: Funny you mention about the roof rails as I know a VY LX8 owner who had that very same prob.

450kw Adventra: Must be quite a bit of fun, how's it in the wet with that power?

Took one for a quick test yesterday and was very impressed with the overall feel and presentation, Quicksilver VYII CX8 with dark grey leather. Has decent pick up for what it is and had the good opportunity of some classic wet Melbourne roads. Didn't push it too far but it does have impressive grip esp. compared to the Ute which I have to be on the ball with at this time of year, got sideways in the snow last week with only the lightest pedal work. Have been offered an extended test later in the week where I can take it out for an hour or so with Mrs Madder.

As far as mods I've spoken to G&D already about a mild edit to start with and zorst etc. if and when I can afford. Be interesting to see what the edit does for power and economy. Suspension I probably won't touch but would like bigger brakes but it seems that this is a difficulty for Adventras, am I right?

Anyway waiting for a trade-in price on the Ute (likely to be pitiful) and then start the real negotiations.

Keep you posted.

Jase

[seldo]

............

Drive train is fine with the exception of the auto, as long as you don't go over 400 fwkW and put a stally in you should be fine, after this you need a 4L80E and serous money. :confused:

With decent oil, the diffs are fine, doughnuts last about 20 k and need replacing. (I have done 20 k now)

Remember you are dividing the power by 4 with AWD.............


Yes, the main weak point is the auto itself....but what's news..? The 4wd transfer case is also exactly the same as that used by BMW X5 and X3 except that one them is gear drive and the other chain drive which is only because of lack of space in the trans tunnel and the gear-drive enables them to get the drive down and 90deg to one side . If there is a weak point in the transfer case, it is the centre bearing, but this was not considered to be of any concern by GM even though there is a better/bigger bearing set-up available (at higher cost) from the US manufacturers - New Venture Gears which I think is used in the high torque Hummer application. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the front diff internals are the same as the rear, but don't hold me to that..

[Blown 454 AWD]

2247 kg is what the bitch now weighs with all the bits (blower, water/air intercooler, 381 mm brakes, 4L80E etc) with 255 x 35 x 20" wheels and tyres you can still power slide all wheels in the wet, just make sure you know where it’s pointing when she gets grip!!

12.7 for the standing in the dry, about ¾ second slower in the wet.

We had to make a new rear tail housing to connect the AWD ($2800) and a new gear for the AWD ($900) and that ant even a 1/4 of auto the cost, I'll be posting a full report when completed. :cool:

Still playing with auto tuning etc.

Lets just say it now has a auto gear change from hell however, you don't pick you teeth from the cargo net, it's just a real tight change :D

I was told by Craig's Auto that one on the Commodore mags took some pickys and are doing a bit of an article on it, haven't seen anything though
.

[ACT_Cross8]

2247 kg is what the bitch now weighs with all the bits (blower, water/air intercooler, 381 mm brakes, 4L80E etc) with 255 x 35 x 20" wheels and tyres you can still power slide all wheels in the wet, just make sure you know where it’s pointing when she gets grip!!

12.7 for the standing in the dry, about ¾ second slower in the wet.

We had to make a new rear tail housing to connect the AWD ($2800) and a new gear for the AWD ($900) and that ant even a 1/4 of auto the cost, I'll be posting a full report when completed. :cool:



Did you kill the std 4L65? Have you looked into a change in diff ratio (I'm assuming you still have the 3.46)? Do you know what ratio the o/s models run?

Gotta love the rain in the AWD. Only time I can keep up with S2000's :lol:

Just out of interest, my 3.0L V6 Triton has a bigger exhaust the the std one on my VY Cross8 (not any more thanks to Sureflo though :cool: )

[GHZ28]

Suspension I probably won't touch but would like bigger brakes but it seems that this is a difficulty for Adventras, am I right?
Jase

They do feel a bit "leany" at the standard height, it is the standard sedan spring rates afterall, and jacked up by 70mm over standard. But I must admit that for what they are they handle very well standard. But awesome lowered :)

Save a lot of money and try a full set of Ultimate pads in it. They already have larger front rotors than the sedans, and I am very happy with the Ultimates, improves the brake feel astoundingly.

Garry

[large]

Same deal with my roof racks. All bubbled and are on order. Rear aluminium plates on the bumper are being replaced as well because of fading.

I have owned 2 vx ss manuals and now have the Adventra and honestly think its the Ducks Guts. Its a Calais wagon, sunroof, decent stereo and all the creature comforts and perform quite well. Handling is surprisingly good and super comfy on long trips.

i back the boat in at Eildon in the dirt and drive straight out whilst everyone laughs at me waiting for me to get bogged. hasn'e come close to getting bogged yet.

One happy camper.

[Blown 454 AWD]

[QUOTE=ACT_Cross8]Did you kill the std 4L65? Have you looked into a change in diff ratio (I'm assuming you still have the 3.46)? Do you know what ratio the o/s models run?


We killed 4 x 4L60E's in the first 12,000 k, the first 2 were the second gear band and drum, then after a 2800 stally went in we shattered the front planetary completely.

After fixing and driving carefully for a further 3000 k it just stopped one day.

When the box was dismantled, the tail shaft had split long ways and sawn off at the rear planetary, on closer inspection there was nothing salvageable from the box.

There are some pictures in the station wagon gallery of the Adventra with one picture of the shattered front planetary.

We haven’t played with diff ratios yet.

[ACT_Cross8]

450kw - Ouch!! I thought they were 4L65s standard. That's what the holden dealer marketing material I was given and my owner's said for the Cross8 anyway. Maybe the Adventra got the 4L60 instead. Is there an easy way to tell which box is which by looking at them (externally of course - mine is still in one piece, touch wood!). Also, have you looked into changing diff gears?

large - how old is your car with the faded aluminium trim? Mine is just over 12 months and the side and front alloy panels look about 12 years old :mad: . If yours are replaced under warranty, then I might as well ask too.

GHZ28 - Are the ultimate pads the same as other holden models? Do you have part numbers please?

[large]

[QUOTE=ACT_Cross8]450kw - Ouch!!
large - how old is your car with the faded aluminium trim? Mine is just over 12 months and the side and front alloy panels look about 12 years old :mad: . If yours are replaced under warranty, then I might as well ask too.

QUOTE]

Just on twelve months old.
The excuse for the aluminium fading I was told was caustic stains from brushless carwashes. I have onle ever been through 1 in twelve months.

I would certainly be asking for replacement as I believe it is quite a common fault.

[madder]

large - how old is your car with the faded aluminium trim? Mine is just over 12 months and the side and front alloy panels look about 12 years old :mad: . If yours are replaced under warranty, then I might as well ask too.


Sounds like they skimped on clear anodizing which should protect aluminium from this sort of discolouration.

Anyway the dealer got back to me with a trade of $25k which is a joke (redbook suggests $27k trade-in as a minimum for a bog standard). I understand them trying to make money at both ends but this is ridiculous. It means I have to negotiate both the trade-in price upwards and the sale price downwards. Clearly this dealer is not bothered by the woeful Adventra sales. I've got a couple of other cars to look at but they require time and legwork. Anyway I'll get a long-term test drive tomorrow just to see how the thing is to live with and if the dealer"s not coming to the party I'll just walk. Might use the upcoming Terri for a bit of leverage. Don't think it will count for much as, while the Adventra's sales are woeful, the V8 is a major differentiator and here the dealer knows he has a V8 fan who obviously DGAF about fuel consumption as long as it hauls OK. Mind you the new economy of the next Terri looks good and its over 40% cheaper to insure so there's a lot to be saved by moving to the slow life. And what the hell's going to happen to Adventra resales over the years as it becomes a VE orphan?

See how it goes.

[GHZ28]

GHZ28 - Are the ultimate pads the same as other holden models? Do you have part numbers please?

Yes they are the standard ones for the sedan etc.

don't have the numbers handy, but can get them if you have any problem.

You won't believe the difference they make until you try them.

gh

[HSVMAN]

Mind you the new economy of the next Terri looks good and its over 40% cheaper to insure so there's a lot to be saved by moving to the slow life. And what the hell's going to happen to Adventra resales over the years as it becomes a VE orphan?
See how it goes.

If you're gonna look at a six shooter try the LX6 Adventra. Better economy than the 8 (or terri) with all the bells and whistles and a bloody nice ride! :)

[Stocky]

Yes they are the standard ones for the sedan etc.

don't have the numbers handy, but can get them if you have any problem.

You won't believe the difference they make until you try them.

gh

What are the Ultimates like when cold ? Still grab OK ?

Thanks


Stocky

[GHZ28]

What are the Ultimates like when cold ? Still grab OK ?

Thanks


Stocky

Yes, they are very good from cold, brake dust is the only issue.

Garry

[Woodman]

Howdy All,

I've just traded my VX II SS for an LX8 Adventra and I love it. Sure its a bit more thirsty, but I've also not touched it yet (misses would kill me, I'll have to wait a few months ;) ) and luxury plus !! I also have a set of roof bars on order as mine are also starting to bubble. Apparently its quite a big job to change them too, but thats not my problem, but the car yard better to a good job or I'll be pissed.
Anyway just my two cents worth.

cheers.

[GHZ28]

Howdy All,

I've just traded my VX II SS for an LX8 Adventra and I love it. Sure its a bit more thirsty, but I've also not touched it yet (misses would kill me, I'll have to wait a few months ;) ) and luxury plus !! I also have a set of roof bars on order as mine are also starting to bubble. Apparently its quite a big job to change them too, but thats not my problem, but the car yard better to a good job or I'll be pissed.
Anyway just my two cents worth.

cheers.

Just be sure that when they do it, they have to remove the entire interior hood lining, that the sunroof is properly aligned before they put it all back to gether. Mine rattles at full opening now, so next service it will have to be fixed again. Hood lining out, make adjustments, hood lining in. They hate me right now....

And I agree, they are nice, Calais interior trim, with Statesman back seat room.

Garry

[Woodman]

Thanks Garry, I spoke to the dealer who said "they are on back order" so when they finally arrive I'll make sure there's no rattles.
Cheers

[SSBRUT]

Hi all
Have got a VY SS ute but just got the miss a LX8 and I do like the AWD. Had to get the roof bars done two.
Also have had the exhaust done and at this time it's in getting a blower fitted at CSV. Hope to get it out to the drags tonight to see what it can do.

Jase

[HSVMAN]

Hi all
Have got a VY SS ute but just got the miss a LX8 and I do like the AWD. Had to get the roof bars done two.
Also have had the exhaust done and at this time it's in getting a blower fitted at CSV. Hope to get it out to the drags tonight to see what it can do.
Jase

You got your miss a blown LS1 AWD??? Hell I'll go out with you :lol:

Great to see how it does!

[SSBRUT]

Well got the Adventre back Friday and no drag's as it was called off was not happy.
But anyway was happy with the car goes well, CSV done a top job on fitting and tunning the blower. Had the Vortech V-2 Quiet non intercooled fitted but will be getting an intercool fitted in the new year. Will get out to the drag's as so as they're on again and will post up some times and by the way the missus loves it to.