Holden to slash 1400 jobs!

[Jac001]

a sad day indeed :eek:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16389297-1246,00.html

[Marco]

Sounds like VE production might be less human-intensive than the current cars if they are going to cut a further 400 mid next year.

Are Holden's exports also down on last year, or just domestic sales?

[V-Car]

IMHO i think youll find that alot of future exports will end up being supplied from other (read cheap) overseas plants.
More profit from Commodores built in Korea or China for export to other countries etc.
Also if Zeta is back on the agenda in the US, NA may resume RWD Caprice and Lumina sales in the Middle East that they lost to Holden when RWD Chevy Caprice production finished in the late 90's.

[Ghia351]

Sounds like VE production might be less human-intensive than the current cars if they are going to cut a further 400 mid next year.

Are Holden's exports also down on last year, or just domestic sales?Quote from Holden on radio news was that exports were as good as ever and that domestic sales were the primary reason,...can't see how.

By the way didn't the third shift only commence last year iirc?

Putting my cynical hat on, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a decision made after the US/Zeta announcement and some time was taken before publically announcing it as I can't see that Commodore sales have dropped out of the sky and no-one has stated that the new line changes suddenly have far greater automation.

Either way, no matter what car company is involved my main concern is for the employees, hope their suffering is as lessened as possible.

[Jac001]

I saw snippet of an Interveiw with Denny Mooney (CEO) and he mentioned that the strong australian dollar was hurting exports and made imports cheaper.... i didn't see much else unfortunately.

Employees are being offered sepertaion packages. Holden knew that the transition period from VZ to VE (which is now) would require more labour than when VE commenced.

Large sections are becoming more automated and other areas outsorced. We have been talking about being downsized for the last couple of months but no where near to the extent that has been revelied.

I speculate that trouble in GM North America has had a huge impact on GM Australia. I suspect that Holden board got the message from GM NA to cut costs and this is the final result. :(

[Bigmaxy]

I don't know if this is the appropriate forum thread, but I have heard second hand reports that the NSW State Govt was going to make it compulsory to start purchasing 4 cyl cars unless it can be justified to go bigger. :eek:
If true, bang, that just ruled out commodore and falcon sales, leaving Camry and other smaller fords and holdens which are imported such as Astra/Focus etc. Once again if true holden must realise that the potential is there for major loss of sales, I imagine quite a lot of local cars manufactured go to fleets.

Anyone else heard this rumour>

[Dover]

Sounds like VE production might be less human-intensive than the current cars if they are going to cut a further 400 mid next year.

Are Holden's exports also down on last year, or just domestic sales?


Maybe holden has burnt too many people with there shit customer care and poor build quality that its finaly starting to hurt them. One can only hope.
I feel for the workers dont get me wrong, but i hope holden learn the reson why there selling less commies.
Ben

[VKCommo]

From a Holden Worker:

Its along the lines that the Americans dont want the GTO (Hence why they r stopping production of monaro) no more and the China contract was also terminated cos they didnt like the results of the final product. So where building all the cars that arent gonna go no where.

[GH1967]

I can't understand why more people don't support an Aussie icon like Holden cars. They are good value for money and the money and jobs stay here in Australia.

[Dover]

I can't understand why more people don't support an Aussie icon like Holden cars. They are good value for money and the money and jobs stay here in Australia.

i spose if holden supported there customers people might support them more. I dont call my lemon ss ute value for money, value for money is a 85 hilux.
ben
edit: i brought a holden ute thinking about my work and have lost more money because of a useless holden product. Honestly as it stands the qualty of of the crap they pump out i hope holden fold. I love the car when runs and runs right. Holden sort ya shit out as its only gonna get harder.

[aurora_ls2]

Offical Response (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/news?categoryID=10&articleID=1352&navCategoryId=all)

I'm a big believer in supporting Australian Manufacturing, this comes from two levels 1) the consumer 2) government.

Tariffs should be in place to protect Australian manufacturers and workers. How else are they supposed to compete against imports?

[Oldmonroman]

IMHO i think youll find that alot of future exports will end up being supplied from other (read cheap) overseas plants.
More profit from Commodores built in Korea or China for export to other countries etc.
Also if Zeta is back on the agenda in the US, NA may resume RWD Caprice and Lumina sales in the Middle East that they lost to Holden when RWD Chevy Caprice production finished in the late 90's.

The day a Holden gets built outside this country I will never buy a Holden again.
Holden are you reading this please take note.

[lowriding]

The day a Holden gets built outside this country I will never buy a Holden again.
Holden are you reading this please take note.

??? Theres alreadly plenty of examples and years of imported Holdens. I do like your emotion but the problem is most large "australian" co's are headed by overseas know-all stuff-alls . Holden ,Telstra ,BHP ... go on forever .

[Trackdaze]

The day a Holden gets built outside this country I will never buy a Holden again.
Holden are you reading this please take note.

That day is closer than you think,,Block & heads for v6 are cast in Mexico..transmissions are from mexico or japan, glass contract for VE is going offshore...wiper motors etc.etc.....

The 2006.75 Commodore maybe more deawoo than one would like

[COUPE]

i spose if holden supported there customers people might support them more. I dont call my lemon ss ute value for money, value for money is a 85 hilux.
ben
edit: i brought a holden ute thinking about my work and have lost more money because of a useless holden product. Honestly as it stands the qualty of of the crap they pump out i hope holden fold. I love the car when runs and runs right. Holden sort ya shit out as its only gonna get harder.


I agree ... support from Holden and HSV is poor at the least ... Try ringing HSV to get some help, you get no where.

[AndrewCowley]

The day a Holden gets built outside this country I will never buy a Holden again.
Holden are you reading this please take note.
So you are ok with foreigners running Holden then? That's all well and good, but you'd turn completely from the brand if they built cars overseas. Holden are a part of a global firm. Why not build cars overseas too? If it means cheaper cars the public will love it. Perhaps Holden needs to be more than the Commodore car company (c'mon how many variations on a theme can you have!) if they are to do better.

[seldo]

I agree ... support from Holden and HSV is poor at the least ... Try ringing HSV to get some help, you get no where.
I just did (wrote to them) and I had a phone call back within 48 hrs and a solution within a few days. Can't ask for much more than that..:)

[Marco]

I don't know if this is the appropriate forum thread, but I have heard second hand reports that the NSW State Govt was going to make it compulsory to start purchasing 4 cyl cars unless it can be justified to go bigger.

Bring back the Commodore Four!

[Marco]

Offical Response (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/news?categoryID=10&articleID=1352&navCategoryId=all)

I'm a big believer in supporting Australian Manufacturing, this comes from two levels 1) the consumer 2) government.

Tariffs should be in place to protect Australian manufacturers and workers. How else are they supposed to compete against imports?

By making cars that are competitive against imports. Which our Aussie-made cars are - what else can you buy for the price with the same combination of space and performance?

Sorry, but tariff walls simply allow local manufacturers to crank out shitty products while hiding behind a wall of protectionism. Doesn't matter how bad your cars are if imported competition costs thousands more.

The only negative side effect of tariff reduction on the local car industry was that we stopped making small cars here. That's not really a problem - there are plenty of countries who make small cars better and cheaper than we ever could. What we are good at is making big cars at low prices, and this is what we have rightly concentrated on since tariffs started coming down.

So we import what we aren't good at making - small cars - and export what we are good at making - big cars. Everyone's better off. The buyer gets cheaper small cars, and the country keeps jobs in the car industry building cars for export (as well as local sale).

[daabido]

I can't understand why more people don't support an Aussie icon like Holden cars. They are good value for money and the money and jobs stay here in Australia.

Don't fret. We all support Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi and Toyota through all the State and Federal subsidies these overseas based multinational companies demand for maintaining a local presence.

Need a new engine plant? Not a problem. Here's $400 million.

Need to keep developing grandpa's axe inline 6? Not a problem. Here's $75 million.

Need to sack some workers? Not a problem. Here's a $10 million compo deal for them.

I assume that the State and Federal governments will be kicking in compo deals for all sacked workers from now on?

Oh no, I forgot. It's the automotive industry.

[VHSLE]

I don't know if this is the appropriate forum thread, but I have heard second hand reports that the NSW State Govt was going to make it compulsory to start purchasing 4 cyl cars unless it can be justified to go bigger. :eek:
If true, bang, that just ruled out commodore and falcon sales, leaving Camry and other smaller fords and holdens which are imported such as Astra/Focus etc. Once again if true holden must realise that the potential is there for major loss of sales, I imagine quite a lot of local cars manufactured go to fleets.

Anyone else heard this rumour>

Soulds like complete b.s., how would this be implemented or policed ? The only thing they could do is put another tax on cars with big engines or up the rego in proportion to capacity...........geez I hope they don't do that my firebird is 7.6 litres !.

[Jac001]

Soulds like complete b.s., how would this be implemented or policed ? The only thing they could do is put another tax on cars with big engines or up the rego in proportion to capacity...........geez I hope they don't do that my firebird is 7.6 litres !.



I think he means that this would aply to government cars not private cars.... unless i have miss understood your reply...

[spiv]

Holden have too many models and ones that are poor sellers like the Adventurer, combine that with an emphasis on large passenger cars and sky rocketing petrol prices and you have a recipe for disaster. Just remember that the original Commodore in 1978 came about becuase GM thought that rising oil prices would dictate that the consumer would want smaller more fuel efficient cars. Didn't work out that way. But now you have lots of diesel cars and even hybrid cars to choose from, meaning that GM better get with the program if they want to be competitive with the other manufacturers.

[Swordie]

It’s my understanding the 3rd shift is to be cancelled, hence mass redundancies. I thought this shift was originally brought on line to help cope with the production of the GTO for the U.S. Now there is no GTO in the future hence no demand for the 3rd shift. Also with rising petrol prises demand for large cars is slowing a little.

Holden has done well to secure support from the State and Federal governments. If this was a small business or one with little profile employees would be in a worse position. Who knows how all this work in the future when the Federal Government brings in its new IR laws? If anything workers will have less once the Howard Government has its way.

[Marco]

Holden has done well to secure support from the State and Federal governments. If this was a small business or one with little profile employees would be in a worse position. Who knows how all this work in the future when the Federal Government brings in its new IR laws? If anything workers will have less once the Howard Government has its way.

If people "choose" to bargain away some of their redundancy entitlements, then yes, people would be worse off when they were made redundant.

The Feds stepping in with a bucket of cash doesn't have much to do with IR though. Holden should be paying its own employees' redundancies - I think the Govt money is to help them find new jobs.

[OzJavelin]

Despite my "issues" with Holden, I wish the company no ill .. I want Holden, Ford and Mitsu all to remain here manufacturing. We MUST keep these tertiary industries in this country .. and develop them further. Progress (back) to electronics, micro-electronics, aeronautics, etc. We need to, else our future is more than primary industries of digging up minerals, exporting wheat and meat .. and importing everything else ..

[jnicholson]

Holden means a great deal to Australia - yeah, right.

Adelaide third shift was causing Holden headaches from day one (increased costs, significant drop in quality, production line maintenance issues, etc.) and I first heard about closing third shift production in November 2004, so everyone at Holden expected it to happen some day.

Holden is just a brand - Australian icon - of a huge US car giant that builds crap cars. Every product decision is based only on potential improvement in market share and profit, nobody cares where the cars are build, the cheaper the better. It is easier these days to bring Daewoos from Korea and slap a Holden badge on them than it is to locally design and build cars - expect more and more Korean Holden shit very soon: Barina, Viva, Magnus, C100 and C105.

I believe that the Zeta platform Commodore will be the last Australian build Holden ever.


JN

[Swordie]

If people "choose" to bargain away some of their redundancy entitlements, then yes, people would be worse off when they were made redundant.

The Feds stepping in with a bucket of cash doesn't have much to do with IR though. Holden should be paying its own employees' redundancies - I think the Govt money is to help them find new jobs.

The employees will receive their redundancy money plus funding from the Feds. There are many people who become redundant and don't receive that same sort of support from the government. State and Federal governments usually step in with a package when it politically affects them.

On the future of IR reform the legislation hasn't even made it to parliament yet. We don't know what Howard will do. Initial evidence suggests workers will be worse off.

[Marco]

It is easier these days to bring Daewoos from Korea and slap a Holden badge on them than it is to locally design and build cars - expect more and more Korean Holden shit very soon: Barina, Viva, Magnus, C100 and C105.

Of course it is. Looking at the numbers here - Holden last year sold what, about 25,000 Astras or thereabouts? On those numbers, it makes no sense whatsoever for Holden to locally design and build their own small car (in fact, they have never done that). It would cost maybe $500m-$1 billion to design such a car from the ground up, possibly more. It would mean the compexity of another line at Elizabeth to build it - capacity that could otherwise be used to build more Commodore-based cars for local sale and export (with higher profit margins). And with that sort of initial investment to recoup, you can bet anything you like that it wouldn't start at $18,990 like the Astra Classic currently does and the Viva is likely to do. And of course, such a car would have to compete with whatever the massive overseas companies designed to compete against it in this market.

The numbers just don't add up. Far better to import Holden's small cars from somewhere that cranks them out by the hundreds of thousands every year, share the development costs over a greater number of units produced and take advantage of economies of scale. Meanwhile, Holden concentrates on designing and making what it is good at and what it can sell the most of, and everyone's in front.

From what I can recall, the only time in Holden's history when they designed and built something alongside their full size car was when they had the Torana - back when midsize cars were a big chunk of the market. The last small car they had real success with before the Astra - the Gemini - was part of a GM 'world car' project.

[VZ SV8]

gone are the days where people worked their way up through the company to decide what happened to it. and i will relate my point to this thread at the end!

i work for the biggest airline in aus!!, i wont say their name but i am guessing you all know who i am talking about!

roumors are going around work that the company will be sending more and more maintenance overseas where it is cheaper!!
the company earned another record profit of 760 million dollars last financial year.

if they do send the maintenance overseas to india and china (where alot of airlines are sending it) i will put a big dollar bet, that one of their planes will go down and many people will die, because the company wanted to save some money on maintenance costs!

if you were flying overseas, and you stepped aboard a plane, would you be happy in the knowledge that a little indian bloke on $4 an hour was fixing it!!!

my point is, if you want better quality, you pay for it. big companies hire these moronic bean counters with a university degree to do their finances, but they have no idea of the industry, so they cut costs, where costs should not be cut.

all the people who work hard to build their cars, or in my case, fix their planes, will be shafted because the company didnt want to spend the extra money to get the better quality.

when things start falling out of the sky, or falling appart, maybe the companies will start to think

"hang on a sec, maybe thats why we were spending the extra money before"

more and more hard working australians will lose their jobs to the sweatshops in asia and india! and its not right

[Marco]

You'd hope that 'a certain large Australian airline' would realise that a good part of its reputation is based on the fact that they've never crashed...if they started doing so, plenty of people would lose the only reason they had left for flying that airline.

Because you wouldn't go for the prices, amenities or service, that's for sure.

[mavss]

Let's hope it doesn't come to that VZ SV8.

Off-shoring work doesn't necessarily mean that quality will suffer, as long as they have similar standards to ours, although considering the hourly rates being mentioned makes you wonder.

[bouka]

It is all about return on shareholders funds these days. (i apologise in advance for the nonsensical and very long rant).

Corporations have always been about making money, no one can begrudge them that. Once upon a time though there was loyalty to workers, to the product and most importantly to the customer. The ideology was to give the workers a great deal and environment and to give the customers the best possible product and this would lead to controllable and sustainable growth. Each new finacial years targets would be set at achievable and realistic numbers.

Now it is all about trying to make the unrealistic targets set by the new and improved (and mostly it seems these days the American) bosses who are promising shareholders the world. Huge growth targets are promised and even bigger cost cutting is occuring. F**k the product and the customer and even the loyal worker who has been with us for 20 plus years. He or she means nothing to the head in the sand, big number promising, short term growth at the expense of long term prosperity, overpaid, foreign accent CEO who gets $10 million when they f**k off in three years (this is the average for CEO's of large corp's, and they know it). As long as the shareholder gets promised the earth.

One of two things will happen. Either these corporations will realise that longevity and stability can and will only be achieved by reverting back to the steady growth achieved by delivering a quality product and creating what they once had, loyalty. OR, they will keep putting on and sacking thousands of people to meet the increasingly bigger promises that are made by these companies to the shareholders.

Whose fault is it. OURS! Why? Because we are either the shareholders demanding a greater return or the customers puting up with the ever increasing rubbish they are dishing out (or a realy dissolusioned combination of both).

Yeah blokes, it is that simple. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Ps. Sorry for the rant! I have the flu and these red pills are really strong. Or was it the blue ones? Green ones maybe? No, that's right, green ones aren't for the flu.

[Trackdaze]

I can't understand why more people don't support an Aussie icon like Holden cars. They are good value for money and the money and jobs stay here in Australia.

Don't believe the Hype!! Considering that the thing is based upon a 1994 Opel Omega from europe and the engines and transmissions are imported..ok.ok the V6 is spannered here but the block and heads are sourced from Mexico..

Consider that Holden exports commodores to gain import credits so that it can sustain importing these big ticket items and the rest of the range.

Want to keep your money in Australia? Only one choice..Ford invests more at design stage (we're talking billions) is unique to australia and has the most australian content..yep engine cast and base transmissions are built here..

[mavss]

29/8/05 (not sure what the source was)

It may be Australia's iconic motoring brand, but even Holden can't avoid the troubles that have beset the world's automotive industry.

Like its parent General Motors (GM) group in the United States, Holden admits it's doing it tough and has announced it will shed 1,400 jobs at its Elizabeth assembly plant in Adelaide by the middle of next year.

It will axe its third shift at the plant in the face of falling demand for the locally-built Commodore range both in Australia and overseas. Holden has fallen victim to its own desire to be a key player in the global market.

Export trade has left it vulnerable to the fluctuating fortunes of car trends and sales in other countries, and to the more general shift in economic conditions. Also working against it has been the high value of the Australian dollar, rising commodity prices, falling tariffs on imported cars, and sky-rocketing petrol prices.

To be fair, the car maker could hardly have been expected to forecast what would happen with exchange rates, world oil prices and the upward pressure that growth in the Chinese economy has put on prices for raw materials.
In fact, when it introduced the third shift at the Elizabeth plant in 2003, Holden was enjoying unprecedented success.

Demand for the Commodore was on the rise and exports, along with profits, were surging. In the GM world, Holden was considered the group's top subsidiary and was held up as an example to other brands of how to be a successful niche supplier to the world market.

The peak of its success came in 2003 when Holden began exporting the Monaro coupe to the United States - a deal that might once have been considered impossible to pull off given the strength of US auto unions. But since then, things have not gone so well.

Falling tariffs have lifted demand in Australia for imported cars at the expense of locally-made vehicles to the point where seven of every 10 new cars now sold in Australia come from overseas. Exchange rates have also put growing pressure on exports while rising petrol prices have prompted a surge in small car sales.

In July this year alone, the demand for small cars rose 26 per cent, primarily at the expense of larger guzzlers. Strategically, the company also missed the sports utility craze, a sector of the market where other companies cashed in, especially Ford with its locally-developed Territory.

Holden released the Adventra, the four-wheel drive version of the Commodore, but with only limited success. It will soon plug gaps in its local range with cars made by Daewoo in Korea. But on the sports utility vehicle (SUV) front, it might be too late, with demand in the off-road market also starting to decline.

In the future, the company's fortunes will hinge on the success of the new VE Commodore, which is due for release in mid-2006. Once again it will be a large, six cylinder model and it will probably continue to be Australia's top selling car. But if petrol prices keep rising, then it might just be a diesel
version of the car that is the biggest hit with buyers.

Whatever the case, there's no doubting the VE's importance to the future viability of Holden as a local vehicle producer. As Holden chairman and managing director Denny Mooney says, the VE will probably be Holden's most important launch since the debut of the original Holden in 1948.

[Dacious]

Don't believe the Hype!! Considering that the thing is based upon a 1994 Opel Omega from europe and the engines and transmissions are imported..ok.ok the V6 is spannered here but the block and heads are sourced from Mexico..

Consider that Holden exports commodores to gain import credits so that it can sustain importing these big ticket items and the rest of the range.

Want to keep your money in Australia? Only one choice..Ford invests more at design stage (we're talking billions) is unique to australia and has the most australian content..yep engine cast and base transmissions are built here..


What planet are you getting this PR from? Ford stopped the ACI Pilkington contract and has got glass from China for BAs for at least two years. Every single Boss V8 is assembled out of a pile of North American-made parts. All Fords 'Euro' small cars come from plants in South Africa or elsewhere with nil Aus content. Considering the Ford is based on a 1959 Falcon chassis and 1960's engine from the US.....

As far as 'export content' goes, GM-H built and exported 3 million Famiy II 4s by 1997. Every Holden Astra, Vectra (except v6), some Barinas, the new Lacetti and a good many Korean-built cars from several makers have them- so 50% of it's Astras/Vectra content by government definition is Australian-made, including bare castings. If Ion hadn't gone bellyup so would the sixes by now.

Ford recently asked the Feds for a few $mil to keep developing the Barra 6 - hardly a vote of confidence in its' future. m betting the next Falc will have a modular V6. So let's not keep going with 'we're more Aussie than you' pissing contests.

[sKeptiK]

I have the following link in regards to the "Aussie car" debate...

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=5128&vf=1

Back on topic, I hope the Mitsubishi 380 is a huge success(at the expense of imported cars) and 1400 additional jobs are created at it's Tonsley Park factory so these people have somewhere to go.