When is Holden going to build a XR6 Turbo Competitor?

[GTS_300_Coupe]

I was just wondering with the success of the XR6T and Typhoon why hasnt Holden even raised an eyebrow on the subject of forced induction?
I'm guessing the new 3.6 V6 would be a very capable unit for the turbo market.
I'm already bored with V8s. Every second holden is the same boring 5.7 and its been that way for too long already.

Why hasnt there been any plans for some hot 6 performance?
The engine in its current form is a joke. Its not really any better than the Ecotec 3.8 the performance stats arent ground breaking and the fuel economy isnt noticeable. Not to mention the 3.6 sounds like a weed wacker.

[seldo]

.............Not to mention the 3.6 sounds like a weed wacker.
So you'd rather a weed-wacker with the sneezes...?? ;)

[moose]

Damn fine question, it's been a while since holden's last forced induction motor. They have plans for a twin turbo v6, but it doesn't seem to be high on their priorities. I agree, the current motor is a bit bland.

[VooDoo]

When it needs to. To date it hasnt.

Its rather Holden lead the market not follow the No2 player and copy one of their ideas. (although a V6 TWIN turbo does have a nice ring to it)

[OUTAtheBloo]

Bored with v8's !! NEVER :confused:

But yer your right, Holden hasnt shown any interest really with keeping up with the xr6 from day dot. Maybe with the fuel increases, there maybe some demand for it. Couldnt see myself givening up the ute for any 6 though.

Dan

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Couldnt see myself givening up the ute for any 6 though.

Dan

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg

[VooDoo]

Doesnt make me want to change camps any time soon.


It it was in the new Mustang and available in AU for under 60k then i could be tempted but thats never going to happen.

[cutter bob]

if you like that, why dont you just do this then gen-t turbo (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43620)


far better results and still a v8 ;)

[Ghosn]

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg

Why whinge?

If you are bored with what u have, why don't u go out and buy one of those? Why worry about what the badge says?

[VXSS346]

Hey, who cares if Ford has the quicker six?
Holden has the quicker V8's and that's all that matters anyway. :lol:

[vh-holden]

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg


i dont' trust a car with hidden turbos. i wanna be able to see it, i mean them.

[surfmaster59]

Holden did it nearly 20 years ago, even though they did "borrow" it from the ricer car company. Turbos are good but they are a little stressed - a V8 does it easier and without the fuss. The XR6 turbo is nowhere near as good as the LS1. I will stick to the Generals bent 8.

[vzsv6]

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg

Wow, a tractor engine with a turbo bolted on, not exactly a reason for song and dance.

I'll patiently wait for the Alloytec TT.

[chevypower]

Perhaps if the SV8 and SS had the LS7 7 litre, and the HSV versions were supercharged Ls7s - would that spice the range up a little?

[plonkerchops]

Holden did it nearly 20 years ago, even though they did "borrow" it from the ricer car company. Turbos are good but they are a little stressed - a V8 does it easier and without the fuss. The XR6 turbo is nowhere near as good as the LS1. I will stick to the Generals bent 8..
little stressed???from my personal experience...450hp turbo 6 doesnt sound or act too stressed at all...
and with no fuss at all either...



Wow, a tractor engine with a turbo bolted on, not exactly a reason for song and dance.

I'll patiently wait for the Alloytec TT.

youre going to be waiting a long time .......

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

A little off the topic but what is it with ford and their design with intakes on their 6's??? Just look at it, it has to do a complete u turn to get itself to the manifold, its as if they put the air box and battery on the wrong sides. And while I'm at it the intake is squished and pretty much sits flat ontop of the engine where its not only being restricted but the air is getting heated on the way through..... I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! Sorry just the engineer in me coming through. :bash:

[VX-300]

Hooray - So it's not just me that thinks they need to shoot whoever designs their intakes. I don't care if they work ok. They simply look like a shambles.

[VXSS346]

V8's for me.
To me, the same horsepower produced through a force fed six of smaller capacity must be more highly stressed, and therefore can't last as long. And then there's the sound difference. :driving:
Wonder how many kays people get out of their WRX's, would be interesting to know.

[chook]

II'm already bored with V8s. Every second holden is the same boring 5.7 and its been that way for too long already.
Well if you're bored with boring 5.7's as you say, why are you posting on an LS1 forum.

[gsw]

Wonder how many kays people get out of their WRX's, would be interesting to know.

Two of my mates have got a max of 5 years out of their WRX engines before a rebuild was on the cards. One was standard the other worked.


Wow, a tractor engine with a turbo bolted on, not exactly a reason for song and dance.

What and your SV6 is? :p

[bigdongers]

isnt the sv8 the xr6t competitor? roughly the same price and performance.

[Nobby]

I dunno if people should be having a go at rex engines' life expectancy considering the track record of LS1 rebuilds just on this forum alone.

[JoeT]

The TT36 Twin Turbo Alloytec 3.6L V6 generates 280kW and a hefty 480Nm of torque.

I can't wait for an SV6 Turbo, or an HSV XU6 Turbo! The TT36 is a neat looking engine.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/holden-aims-04-6-big.JPG

[Y2kGoofball]

the idea of a turbo sounds nice, but thats just something else that can go wrong, and once out of warranty, their quite a sum of money to replace just the turbo and associated seals, gaskets, nuts and bolts alone.

just my opinion :mad:

[SchrgdVSV6]

I feel that Holden has a small gap in its lineup where a turbo V6 could fit, as an engine option on the Commodore. It could have say 220-240kw to distinguish it from the NA V6 lineup and not impede on the V8 given that with the VE its likely to go up a few more kw. However, to add another engine option requires dollars... dollars that Holden probably isnt willing to spend given whats happening abroad.
Im sure Holden have done their homework and given the recent fuel prices might be marketable (you know "power of an 8, economy of a 6" speal)
But I find it funny to read comments like "turbo engines are more stressed and cant last as long" given that most of you guys are slapping on turbos/blowers on such high compression engines :lol: ;) :thumbsup:
Then again my modded turbo 6 engine isnt complaining... having done 200,000kms+ and still going strong. Will check back in when I hit 300,000kms :)
Although what do you expect after all the R&D dollars Ford, Toyota, Nissan (and Holden) spend on building such engines.

[Y2kGoofball]

the other thing is Holden spent alot of time and I'm sure money on their new Cross Trac range, which is now found in Adventra, Crewman and 1 Tonner.

While Ford was putting a turbo into a sports car, Holden was putting AWD into their more 'commericial' cars

[Swordie]

Holden had the supercharged 6 untill the VXII. It seemed once the V8 had more power and cost as much to run as forced induction 6 its didn't make sense to keep the thing.

The Ford Turbo is a very nice car, it would take some beating. I think Holden will have issues with power on drivetrain.

[cutter bob]

Holden had the supercharged 6 untill the VXII. .

they had it in the vy

[seldo]

......... I think Holden will have issues with power on drivetrain.
Why would that be...? It handles the greater power and torque of the V8 now..?

[Swordie]

Why would that be...? It handles the greater power and torque of the V8 now..?

I remember searching the Cadillac Forum (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) and there were issues mentioned there about adding more power to Alloytech 190Kw motor. It seemed the transmission is rated to a certain power limit. Releasing a factory performance version is probably another thing as GM / Holden would do relevant R&D.

[Danv8]

if you like that, why dont you just do this then gen-t turbo (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43620)


far better results and still a v8 ;)


Agreed best of both worlds. :-)

[Danv8]

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg


Nup sorry i'd stick with my "boring" V8's thanks.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

You guys say why get a turbo 6 when you can get a supercharged 8? Well they are different thats why!
You can still have good fuel economy and have the power there when you need it with a turbo 6 plus with a force fed 8 there would be too much power holden or the government wouldnt allow it.

[mikedawg]

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg
NOT EVEN FOR THAT :lol: :lol: :lol: :mad: fords

[cutter bob]

You guys say why get a turbo 6 when you can get a supercharged 8? Well they are different thats why!
You can still have good fuel economy and have the power there when you need it with a turbo 6 plus with a force fed 8 there would be too much power holden or the government wouldnt allow it.

the gen-t kits are proving to have execllent fuel Economy for what they are.... i've heard of figures are low as 10 lph on the highway

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Thats not the point. The point I originally intended to make in this thread was why cant Holden be more diverse?
Its always V8 this and V8 that. Lets just use V8s to solve all our performance problems.
Not everybody is also out to buy a V8 you know. There is a large market out there for high performance 6's too.

[NickS]

Not everybody is also out to buy a V8 you know. There is a large market out there for high performance 6's too.
I reckon you would find that if Ford could put out a decent V8 this so called "large market" for high performance 6's would dry up pretty quickly. The reason the Ford Turbo 6's are selling so well is because they are sh1tting all over the Ford 8's ...

[gsw]

I reckon you would find that if Ford could put out a decent V8 this so called "large market" for high performance 6's would dry up pretty quickly. The reason the Ford Turbo 6's are selling so well is because they are sh1tting all over the Ford 8's ...

I think you will find younger people of today can relate to a turbo car and people will buy a performance 6 for the reason they think it will give them better fuel economy(not to mention cheap mods). It's got nothing to do with Ford V8's. Personally I would take a Ford V8 over a 6T anyday regardless of how fast they are.

[VXSS346]

I dunno if people should be having a go at rex engines' life expectancy considering the track record of LS1 rebuilds just on this forum alone.

I'm not having a go at them, its just a compasrison.

The whole ls1 rebuild issue is a manufacturing defect which Holden openly admits.
It has nothing to do with driving a car too hard. I'm sure less ls1's get rebuilt cause of that than Rex engines.

For the record my brother has a totally stock MY99 rex (105,000kms) and on his second outing to Phillip Island his car leaned out and stuffed a piston. White smoke everywhere. He was up for about 5-7 grand.

He had an EF XR8 before that and he sold it with 145,000 kms and took it to the track about 10+ times. Engine was fine.

I think that says something.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

I reckon you would find that if Ford could put out a decent V8 this so called "large market" for high performance 6's would dry up pretty quickly. The reason the Ford Turbo 6's are selling so well is because they are sh1tting all over the Ford 8's ...

Haha very funny. Supras, skylines, 300ZX's, 3000GT's, etc are all hipo 6's and they will never stop being popular.

[SchrgdVSV6]

on his second outing to Phillip Island his car leaned out and stuffed a piston. White smoke everywhere. He was up for about 5-7 grand.
What caused the leanout? Stuffed injector, fuel pump or runaway boost? :confused: Its hardly a conclusive example to say the EJ20T motor fails more than other motors unless it too (like the LS1) has a manufacturer fault?

[seldo]

I reckon you would find that if Ford could put out a decent V8 this so called "large market" for high performance 6's would dry up pretty quickly. The reason the Ford Turbo 6's are selling so well is because they are sh1tting all over the Ford 8's ...
Can't argue with the logic Nick...;)

[myles]

It's not a direct competitor, but could Holden/HSV be thinking with the addition of the Vauxhall Astra VXR to the lineup, the car would be enough to satisfy the turbo fans?

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/V/vauxhall/astra/03-large/05-vxr-s-st2.jpg
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/V/vauxhall/astra/03-large/05-vxr-f3q-a3.jpg
Review (http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/driving-impressions-2005/V/vauxhall/astra/vxr.html)

Model: Vauxhall Astra VXR
Price: £18,995
Engine: 1,998cc, four cylinders, 16 valves, turbocharger, 240bhp at 5,600rpm, 236lb ft at 2,400rpm
Performance: 152mph, 0-60 in 6.1sec

[VXSS346]

What caused the leanout? Stuffed injector, fuel pump or runaway boost? Its hardly a conclusive example to say the EJ20T motor fails more than other motors unless it too (like the LS1) has a manufacturer fault?

Well it was bog stock so some manufacturing defect caused it to run lean. That was my point.
No-one could even tell him what caused it. He still doesn't know and the engine has already been rebuilt.

Limols1 has cracked 500,000+ kays, wonder how many rex's can do that?

But this is off the subject anyway.

[Vulture]

What caused the leanout? Stuffed injector, fuel pump or runaway boost? :confused: Its hardly a conclusive example to say the EJ20T motor fails more than other motors unless it too (like the LS1) has a manufacturer fault?

Well it isn't as strong as the SR20DET though is it?

[FPV GTHO]

I think you will find younger people of today can relate to a turbo car and people will buy a performance 6 for the reason they think it will give them better fuel economy(not to mention cheap mods). It's got nothing to do with Ford V8's. Personally I would take a Ford V8 over a 6T anyday regardless of how fast they are.

I think theres also an issue over white coller workers not wanting to be associated with a blue coller car, which typically are the low tech V8's Ford and Holden have been putting out for almost 30 years now. The T6 was a breath of fresh air in the market, and i think the T6 being out several months before the XR8 helped alot as well.

[DABOSS]

The XR6 turbo is nowhere near as good as the LS1. I will stick to the Generals bent 8.[/QUOTE]

you only need to look at the quickest XR6Turbo 9.98 , As for the comment up there your right there nowhere near as good but I'll tell ya somthing there better then you think .

You can also stick to the generals bent 8 if ya like leaving two oil trails behind the bent 8's tires. :booty:

[Danv8]

It didn't take long until this topic went into a Ford vs Holden slanging match. :rolleyes:

[NickS]

Haha very funny. Supras, skylines, 300ZX's, 3000GT's, etc are all hipo 6's and they will never stop being popular.
How many buyers do you think would honestly consider a Holden or Ford as a comparison to the cars you have listed ... you might, but not many would. Like it or not the majority of performance Holdens and Fords are sold to people who will generally only consider the one make. Do you honestly think people looking at getting a V8 Holden are going to be interested in a Turbo charged Japanese car (talking majority here, not just a few), I doubt it. The Ford Turbo 6 is selling like hot cakes because it is soooo much more appealing than the Ford V8, I doubt any FI Holden will sell in high numbers unless it is better than the V8's ... which will never happen. Don't you think HSV could do a performance 6 if they thought it would sell ... hang on they did do one, it didn't sell !!

[Deano T]

For me it all came down to bang for buck when I bought my xr6 turbo ute.

xr6 turbo - $37000 on the road

edit - $1100

Exhaust - $1800

Front mount intercooler $1800

Larger injectors and fuel pump $2000

Valve springs - $600

Air intake mods $500

Auto upgrade $800

$45,600 all up

350 rwkw
1100nm at the treads
Capable of easy 11 second passes in street trim all day and 10's with decent fuel.

It keeps up with pretty much anything on the road with plenty of change from fifty grand.

If I wasn't planning on modding it then an LS1 would have made more sense.

With Holdens larger support base than Ford and a generation of kids who have come out of VL turbos and know the performance potential but are now older and looking for a more sophisticated car with similar potential, a turbo model could have some potential for the General.

It will never sound like a V8 though, no matter how tuff it is and I do miss that rumble, but as horrific as that my sound to some of you, that V8 sound isn't everything to everyone.

[SS_Fury]

'If I wasn't planning on modding it then an LS1 would have made more sense'

I dont understand this statement. You could mod an LS1 for a truckload cheaper than what you paid for the xr6t ute with the mods on top? Not having a dig, just trying to understand that point? :confused:

I dont mind xr6t's personally, just a bit heavy for my liking and you can get the general's 8 for less money.

[myles]

With Holdens larger support base than Ford and a generation of kids who have come out of VL turbos and know the performance potential but are now older and looking for a more sophisticated car with similar potential, a turbo model could have some potential for the General.


When you look how popular the ########### and other forum sites are, what Deano T said makes sense. Even Nissan forums still encourage members to pick up a VL turbo if someone wants cheap mods.

After taking out the normal edit and exhaust most members pay for, Deano T has spent five and a half for 350 rwkw and 11 second passes. That's not bad at all.

Thanks for the cost breakdown Deano T.

[Swordie]

Holden's response to a Hot 6 will probably be the Torana. If it's going to be 200 plus kgs less than a Commodore with a few kws it will make for an interesting car with its proposed rear wheel drive.

Mitsubishi could release a hot 6 down the track as well.

Ford's XR6T is a great motor. In Australian motoring history it would have to go down as one of the best sixes ever built. It gets good power on standard normal fuel.

[jbernie]

Personally the biggest issue is coming down to various power to cost ratios. When you sit with straight v6, straight v8 and performance v8 it is easier to price. Throw in a turbo 6 that needs to squeeze in between a v6 and a v8 and price it right without causing too many issues in the performance stakes within the company. It gets a bit hard.

The biggest problem i see for ford is the turbo 6 performs too well. So it takes value away from their 8's. Why by the 8 when the 6 can go close to beating the 8 if not beat it?

Also, you run into issues with market size. If Holden could do a turbo 6, market it right in Oz and then be able to sell a decent number of units overseas then you have a 1/2 decent business case already, if you can only see a market in Oz & NZ then you need to sell a lot of units to get your investment back.

Although it could be very nice for Holden to have a turbo 6 back in the line up, they should focus on providing a high quality effecient v6 with a very strong intelligent auto gear box to go with it. Then set a good mark for base v8 performance and run all over FPV with a varied range of HSV's.

The likelyhood of HSV brining the hot hatch is very nice, they already know who to market it too and where to price it and all. I guess we just need Holden to get some excitement back into the main brand because the performance arm is doing a might fine job from what i can tell.

James

[jbernie]

I also forgot to add, the dual fuel commodore that has been released (?) and a diesel v6 or even 4cyl would be a better investment for Holden in the interest of reducing running costs.

James

[nickh]

The TT36 Twin Turbo Alloytec 3.6L V6 generates 280kW and a hefty 480Nm of torque.

I can't wait for an SV6 Turbo, or an HSV XU6 Turbo! The TT36 is a neat looking engine.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/holden-aims-04-6-big.JPG


First of all the TT set up on the TT36 was a dummy motor with just some manifolds and turbos hang off them nothing was set up or running.. second of all not long after denis mooney took over the TT36 Engine plans (which were well into planning and testing stage) was shut down the answer given was we need to "FOCUS on our CORE Products" the turbos used were going to be t28s with support power of around 275hp each...its a shame that Denis is a bean counter and not a engineer...otherwise this would have become a cult motor/car like the VLTurbo..

[Red CV8 R]

I would like to see a Twin Turbo version of the 3.6 V6. I think the timing would be good to. In todays petrol climate and if it was a daily driver I would choose the Twin Turbo V6 powered commodore over a 6.0Litre V8. Then again I owned a number of Turbo cars a few years ago and dont get sidetracked by the turbos are unreliable and stressed BS spread by the old school punters. I think there is a market for this car, but if Holden try only putting a slushbox and sticking it in the Statesman it will fail.

I also wouldnt use the XR6T as an example as Ford did not have a V8 option for so long that I reckon the traditional buyers still get the XR8/GT but the younger guys who didnt have a V8 car to follow through the 80s and arent scared of owning a Turbo tick the XR6T option. Also alot of new buyers who previously owned smaller performance fours and sixes like WRXs and Skylines and who would never have thought of a Ford or a Holden but find themselves needing a bigger car would buy the XR6T rather then the "low tech" V8. Also I agree some of the white collar workers who wouldnt be seen in a "bogan" V8 would get an XR6T.

So it is a solid new market that Ford created and Holden missed out on. Silly when you look at the cult following that the VL Turbo had. I must say I hardly ever see XR8s but stacks of XR6 Turbos so they must sell very well. Still In answer to the question I dont think Holden will enter this market any time soon.

[PepeLePew]

I think theres also an issue over white coller workers not wanting to be associated with a blue coller car, which typically are the low tech V8's Ford and Holden have been putting out for almost 30 years now. The T6 was a breath of fresh air in the market, and i think the T6 being out several months before the XR8 helped alot as well.

Interesting comment and on the money IMHO

Though I think Fords adoption of extra camshafts etc has helped move it up in the perception market somewhat with white collar technology, whether thats helped the performance cause or not.

DABOSS why respond to a silly comment with another silly comment? We could be pissing up the wall all day with stuff like that.



Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe
Haha very funny. Supras, skylines, 300ZX's, 3000GT's, etc are all hipo 6's and they will never stop being popular.


Dude, I think we're thinking body for body here, same car, different engine options. Or at least thats what I thought NickS was driving at, the relative popularity of differing engine options in the same car.

[double k]

i think that it would be a great idea for holden to bring out a 6 cylinder turbo. when the xr6 t came out a lot of hsv owners and v8 owners wanted a change and bought one as it was new and highly desirable. i know because i sold my hsv for one.

holden could fit it in. one thought may be to have a similar line up to fords with a sv6, sv6 turbo and an ss. they could by all means can the sv8. offer a new turbo version to the holden buyers and i am sure many more would sell their 8's for a sv6 turbo.

a change is always good IMHO.

cheers

[Danv8]

offer a new turbo version to the holden buyers and i am sure many more would sell their 8's for a sv6 turbo.

An SV8 or SS turbo yes but a V6 turbo no not for me. I couldn't give up a V8 rumbling sound for a Zzzzzzzzz pssshh Zzzzzzz psssshh. :p

[double k]

i think that a riced up lancer might make that noise but not the t. i actually think that it makes a mad noise on full song.almost like a jet engine. he he he. ;) ;)

[SchrgdVSV6]

First of all the TT set up on the TT36 was a dummy motor with just some manifolds and turbos hang off them nothing was set up or running
Nick, how did Holden get the 280kw/480Nm figures? Was it just a rough estimate?


An SV8 or SS turbo yes but a V6 turbo no not for me. I couldn't give up a V8 rumbling sound for a Zzzzzzzzz pssshh Zzzzzzz psssshh. :p
A V8 with a turbine wheel smack bang where the primaries merge gets rid of most of the rumble (when on boost) anyways... :stick: ;)

[Danv8]

A V8 with a turbine wheel smack bang where the primaries merge gets rid of most of the rumble (when on boost) anyways... :stick: ;)[/QUOTE]


Maybe so but if its a V8 under the bonnet I am more than satisfied. :D

[Aus8]

Wow, a tractor engine with a turbo bolted on, not exactly a reason for song and dance.

I'll patiently wait for the Alloytec TT.

Lol I would rather that tractor engine than the Alloytec in your car anyday of the week. NA or in Turbo form.

My view is Ford for 6's and Holden for 8's!

Cheers
Aus8

[MIC33R]

As someone who has never bought an Aussie car in my life, if Holden were to bring out something the size of the Torana and with a turbo engine, I'd get it in a second. I think it would be wise if Holden didn't name this smaller car the Torana either, as the first word that comes to mind when I hear Torana is bogan - even though they were great cars for their time. BTW I can't see myself ever buying a Commodore because of the size.

BTW A FWD turbo car is of no interest to me either (and I'd say the majority of import buyers), so if Holden did release a smaller car, it better be RWD or AWD.

[vzsv6]

Lol I would rather that tractor engine than the Alloytec in your car anyday of the week. NA or in Turbo form.

My view is Ford for 6's and Holden for 8's!

Cheers
Aus8

Well good for you, but the only time I'd ever go near a ford i6 is if i needed a boat anchor.

[gsw]

Well good for you, but the only time I'd ever go near a ford i6 is if i needed a boat anchor.

You have bagged it but have not said why it is so bad, please explain?

[marcu5]

There is a company here in australia that I seen an add banner for in the top right corner earlier that almost have a $4500~ kit for the 3.6 alloytek that will take it upto about 300kw without an intercooler. Im not sure where ford will go from here....

[Glenn@Autowerks]

Not even for something like this? ;)
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/typhoon5.jpg

I reckon the funniest part is Ford leave the lifting lug attached to the motor as seen in the picy above, their engineers thinking good idea, this motor gonna come out soon :lol: :lol: :lol:

[marcu5]

I reckon the funniest part is Ford leave the lifting lug attached to the motor as seen in the picy above, their engineers thinking good idea, this motor gonna come out soon :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hahahahahhahaha!!! Nice one!!

[SSZO6]

I reckon the funniest part is Ford leave the lifting lug attached to the motor as seen in the picy above, their engineers thinking good idea, this motor gonna come out soon :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hmm - holden should have thought about that early LS1 days, where the motors were coming out faster than they were going in........ :booty:

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Well good for you, but the only time I'd ever go near a ford i6 is if i needed a boat anchor.

That boat anchor makes just as much power as your 3.6 donk and much more torque (especially at lower revs) not to mention sounds miles better than that weed wacker.
Inline 6 > V6

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Just a few little facts about the Ford 6 you seem to hate so much:
- A '92 EB XR6 Falcon has 161kW which is more powerful than a '04 VY seriesII Commodore S
- A Tickford enhanced 6 cylinder EL Falcon has 167kW which has more power than any Commodore SS up until the release of the VT SS.
- An AU Falcon 6 has 172kW which almost matches a supercharged V6 commodore from the factory.
- The new DOHC Falcon 6 is capable of revving to 7500rpm and producing over 1000hp.
- The Falcon 6 is the only Australian designed and built engine here in Australia.

You need to stop being so biased mate.

[seldo]

...............
- The new DOHC Falcon 6 is capable of revving to 7500rpm and producing over 1000hp............
-.
Hmmmm....I think I'd be standing well back from that one....:shock: :lol:

[VYII_R8]

Actually it can make over 1400HP.

Nizpro has shown this with their development engine.

[VooDoo]

Just a few little facts about the Ford 6 you seem to hate so much:
- A '92 EB XR6 Falcon has 161kW which is more powerful than a '04 VY seriesII Commodore S
- A Tickford enhanced 6 cylinder EL Falcon has 167kW which has more power than any Commodore SS up until the release of the VT SS.
- An AU Falcon 6 has 172kW which almost matches a supercharged V6 commodore from the factory.
- The new DOHC Falcon 6 is capable of revving to 7500rpm and producing over 1000hp.
- The Falcon 6 is the only Australian designed and built engine here in Australia.

You need to stop being so biased mate.

Just a few facts
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE

We are allowed to be biased mate, its a HOLDEN site. Now go play with your little toys in the traffic and dream about your daddy's car elsewhere. This isnt the place for it.

[seldo]

Actually it can make over 1400HP.

Nizpro has shown this with their development engine.
Sorry...:)... I was only stirring ;) ...It's actually a pretty good thing for what it is and, as you say, can be made to produce some pretty spectacular results.

[Nobby]

Just a few facts
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE

We are allowed to be biased mate, its a HOLDEN site. Now go play with your little toys in the traffic and dream about your daddy's car elsewhere. This isnt the place for it.

I'm slightly stunned by this outburst.

[VooDoo]

I'm slightly stunned by this outburst.

Sorry mate, was a little harsh but the thread is a pure troll. Posting on a Holden site all the reasons why a compeditors car/engine is better and asking when Holden is going to match them is asking for trouble. If ppl here cared about the AU engine outputs they would go post on other sites. Most Ford guys here are great and offer welcome input, every so often you get a poorly disquised trolls posting just like this one has.

[VXSS346]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe
A Tickford enhanced 6 cylinder EL Falcon has 167kW which has more power than any Commodore SS up until the release of the VT SS.

That's not correct, the VS series II SS had 168kw's. 1 kw more. :lol:

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Just a few facts
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE
- WE DONT CARE

We are allowed to be biased mate, its a HOLDEN site. Now go play with your little toys in the traffic and dream about your daddy's car elsewhere. This isnt the place for it.

Yeah and I'm a Holden man too but I'm not an ignorant fool thats for sure.
People like you give Holden a bad name.
I like what I got but can appreciate what the competition can offer also.

[vzsv6]

These are my views:

-The pre OHC falcon I6 had a redline of 4500rpm, the LOWEST of any car in Australian history. A breathless and wheezy excuse for an engine. Loads of torque on paper but nothing there when you put your foot down..Whats the story??

-The OHC I6 (EA - AU) is nothing but a troublesome, tappety, head gasket munching, oil leaking, lump of shoddy engineering. Anyone who claims they are reliable should get their hand off it quick smart. I have witnessed enough with my own eyes to justify such comments. A mechanic I know even says if it wasn't for these engines he'd be out of business.

-The BA I6 is just a continuation of this theme, albeit spruced up with "technology" such as DOHC and VCT, to hide its age old origins and to allow the marketing department to brainwash people into thinking it is a 'state of the art' modern engine.
It is hardly a cutting edge design. As someone already mentioned, look at the design of the intake manifold - a truly woeful design. As for reliability, lets just say I have heard quite a few horror stories already. If they still can't get right an engine they have been developing for 45 years, then something must be seriously wrong.

-Whoever mentioned one of these revving to 7500rpm, yeah right, maybe for a split second. With its long stroke it would struggle at these engine speeds.

-What's the big deal about the xr6 turbos?? Any bloody backyarder can bolt a turbo onto an engine and get more power out of it. Its not like Ford pioneered turbocharging... Whats the big deal?? You could bolt a turbo onto a Datsun 120Y and get some decent power out of it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the XR6 turbo was nothing but a marketing stunt, in a desperate attempt to win buyers. If it weren't for the failure of the AU do you think it would have ever existed? I don't think so.

IMO the ba has been excessively glorified and sensationalised.
I have driven most falcons including the ba, now if this I6 is 'so superior' as some claim, then why does it always feel so good to get back into a Commodore?

[Aus8]

IMO the ba has been excessively glorified and sensationalised.
I have driven most falcons including the ba, now if this I6 is 'so superior' as some claim, then why does it always feel so good to get back into a Commodore?

I strongly disagree I rack up 40-50k every year (I am a sales rep) in the latest base model Falcons and Commodores and I would take the BA I6 over the Alloyec anyday of the week! However neither compares to my LS1! 6's are for :limpy: anway. But ok when they are free to drive and thrash the latest models :D

XR6T's are beautiful to drive. A very nice chassis indeed and suspension feels so much better than my SS. Bags of Torque on tap which the V6's lack,

Ford have always had it better than Holden for 6's IMO. But obivously we are all entitled to our view.

Cheers

Aus8

[VTSS_WA]

Fwiw, I test drove many XR6 and XR6T's over about a four week period, before eventually opting for the VT SS I now own.

The standard XR6 wasn't at all impressive in terms of power. Couldn't own one.

The XR6T was an impressive beast, I loved the interior, nice and powerful and very smooth in triptronic form. Compared to the 4-5 VX SS's i'd driven it auto it won hands down. Test drove one that had been modded, with premium brakes and perhaps the boost wound up, not sure, but it came into the dealership with 300kw XR6 plates,boy it was a quick car and very tempting at 30k. They are a pretty nice car all round I thought, if I was in the market for a 6, I think i would be looking at Ford for sure.

In the end though, I realised I could never own a 6, my LS1 now with exhaust, has justified my decision ;) That and my boss said I couldn't park a Ford in the staff carpark :lol:

[VXSS346]

VZSV6, I think your a little bit one sided in your views about the Falcon six.
The VN-VR V6 engines were nothing to brag about either. They leaked oil as well, they were harsh and had crank angle sensor and coil pack failures, to name a few.
At the same time, both these engines were extreamley successful as taxi's. 1,000,000+ kays with very few problems on a lot of them. I think its hard to say one is better than the other.
I've even seen XR6 turbo taxi's out there. Would be interesting to see how long they go for too.

[LimoLS1]

VZSV6, I think your a little bit one sided in your views about the Falcon six.
The VN-VR V6 engines were nothing to brag about either. They leaked oil as well, they were harsh and had crank angle sensor and coil pack failures, to name a few.
At the same time, both these engines were extreamley successful as taxi's. 1,000,000+ kays with very few problems on a lot of them. I think its hard to say one is better than the other.
I've even seen XR6 turbo taxi's out there. Would be interesting to see how long they go for too.

I am 99.9% sure that the XR6"T" taxi running around Melbourne is not a Turbo at all. But that is the word on the street amongst the Cabbies, haven't looked under the bonnet myself to dispel the rumor. However I wouldn't think that a FI motor whether Holden or Ford would have any trouble doing huge miles, as I know of at least 2 super6 Caprices getting around as hire cars with just under 500 000kms on the clock.

[vzsv6]

The VN-VR V6 engines were nothing to brag about either. They leaked oil as well, they were harsh and had crank angle sensor and coil pack failures, to name a few.

To a much smaller extent. While they are not the most sophisticated motor going around, they are very reliable. A crank angle sensor or coil pack is what, a couple of hundred bucks? How much does it cost to replace a falcon head/head gasket? $1000+?? How many V6's have you heard of blowing heads/head gaskets??
The V6 oil leaks are minor compared to the fords. With the EA they couldn't even get the rocker cover gasket right, they pissed out oil like no tomorrow. The dealers couldn't do anything but bodge it up with silastic until ford did a redesign.

[HSVMAN]

I was just wondering with the success of the XR6T and Typhoon why hasnt Holden even raised an eyebrow on the subject of forced induction?
I'm guessing the new 3.6 V6 would be a very capable unit for the turbo market.
I'm already bored with V8s. Every second holden is the same boring 5.7 and its been that way for too long already.
Why hasnt there been any plans for some hot 6 performance?
The engine in its current form is a joke. Its not really any better than the Ecotec 3.8 the performance stats arent ground breaking and the fuel economy isnt noticeable. Not to mention the 3.6 sounds like a weed wacker.
I agree with Voodoo's comments, having read through this thread. There are some very good contributions and also rather silly ones. Like the originating question...
The boring V8 stuff doesnt deserve a response :rolleyes:
The current V6 is streets ahead of it's predecessor in all areas - performance, economy, technology etc - and as we now all know has been tested with forced induction - both turbo and supercharged. And there ARE plans for producing something down the track.
Right now the engine is where Holden want it to be (otherwise they would and could have given it higher output with ease)
If you want a Holden performance 6 that bad go out and buy one and bolt a snail or two on it yourself. Then come back and tell us all about it :)

[double k]

i think that last comment you made HSVMAN is an important one. there is obviously people wanting the 6 turbo and they are going to ford to get it. some have been holden men or women for years and have changed over and maybe for good. holden is losing some customers (maybe not worth it you might say) but they are !

if holden did make one there would be a favourable market for it.

[HSVMAN]

i think that last comment you made HSVMAN is an important one. there is obviously people wanting the 6 turbo and they are going to ford to get it. some have been holden men or women for years and have changed over and maybe for good. holden is losing some customers (maybe not worth it you might say) but they are !
if holden did make one there would be a favourable market for it.

I originally thought that yeah, Ford 6T buyers are disgruntled Ford V8 fans, and I know some of them are in fact. However there is a certain adrenalin rush that turbos give you and that is why people buy them. Even if they aren't any faster they give you the impression they are :eek: And before someone bites on that one, yes they can go faster if you want them too, but so can anything. (I'm a closet Godzilla fan myself)
If I didnt have serious doubts about the durability and age of the F6T I would take it more seriously but respect where respect is due. Ford found a market for the Falcon and its working for them, so would it work for Holden? Of course it would! Some buyers would be ex V8 fans, some would be Ford 6 fans and quite a few would be neither if it was the Torana type concept. Like someone said earlier the Astra Turbo is here early 06 so who knows whats in store for the 6 cyl range...... Vectra is being replaced, hell even Rodeo gets the Alloytec, plus a couple of SUVs later on and I would almost put money on a Turbo 6 passenger car ;)

[Swordie]

The Nissan Skyline GTR would be a very nice Turbo 6. The car that changed Australian Touring Car rules because V8's found it very hard to beat. Go into another price range you have the Porsche Turbo 6's.

[vzsv6]

The Nissan RB series engines...now they are a sweet I6 and I have the upmost respect for them.
To even imply that the ford I6 is in the same league as these is quite frankly an insult to them.

And no, I am not a 'blind one eyed Holden supporter', I like and respect many other types on cars, with Holdens being my first preference.

I'd prefer to call myself an 'anything but ford' supporter.

[flappist]

Far be it from me to be confused by the oracles of wisdom posting in this thread but if the Ford I6 and turbo are such a piece of junk then why would you be asking when Holden are making a competitor?

As far as the old pre OHC ford 6s being junk....
I remember my HG GTS 186S Monaro, HT 253 Kingswood, HK 186 Kingswood, HT 307 Kingswood, 253 HZ Premier & 202 Torana all being blown into the weeds by many XT, XW, XY, XA & XB 6 cylinder Falcons not to mention the Cortinas.
This was from 1976 to 1983 so the cars were all fairly new, just very gutless.

Have any of you actually driven a Holden or Falcon from that period?

[seldo]

Far be it from me to be confused by the oracles of wisdom posting in this thread but ..................

Have any of you actually driven a Holden or Falcon from that period?
Hehe...I've driven all of them...some in anger even...;)

[HSVMAN]

Far be it from me to be confused by the oracles of wisdom posting in this thread .............

Have any of you actually driven a Holden or Falcon from that period?

All of them too, and owned or driven more of both earlier and later models.
Come to think of it. Out of all those models you just mentioned, which ones are still driving around? Hmmmm

The age old argument of which is best, fastest or greatest has never changed and most likely never will.
Be still my child, tis but for the gods alone to decide you are but what you drive.

The Oracle has spoken.....

[Dacious]

I did my P's on a HT Brougham, and while on probabtionary licence went between 3 HD/HRs, a LC six Torana, a HQ van and drove various others. owned a XT 221? Ute, driven all sorts of mate's cars. A 250 six might beat all the smaller Holdens. Not a patch on the V8s except maybe a 253. The 200 six in a fullsize car was a POS - gutless and not even economical with it - and that was before emissions controls. The 221 in my XT was reasonably economical with extractors/twin tailpipes/chrome aircleaner but no ball of fire.

The LC Torana with maligned but low-geared Opel 4-speed would walk any stock Ford six I met except an early 250 Cortina 4-speed, and make all of them look silly as soon as the road went around a corner or if wet. My friend's 265 Chrysler auto was undoubtedly straightline king of the stock sixes I drove - not even a special of any kind.

I remember recirculating ball steering and bodyroll/understeer on all of them except the Torana which steered great but was tail-wag-happy like a ute when pushed. The six-cylinder TC-TD Cortina was the biggest heavy-/under- steering, underbraked joke this side of a V4 auto Transhit I once drove Lorne-Melbourne, which struggled to make it over the Westgate Bridge.

Back then the Falcs were bigger and heavier, so therefore more comfortable and roomier than the Holden, and often better equipped. The square late 60's Fairlane was a nice piece of kit with a 289 or 351. But the Fords were also usually harder to stop despite overboosted brakes, harder to steer because of over-assisted, and turns lock-lock; and a little floaty and ponderous; and chewed more juice.

Some things don't change.

[chops]

The six-cylinder TC-TD Cortina was the biggest heavy-/under- steering, underbraked joke...

I had a TE (heavier again) 4.1 for my first car.
Managed to reduce the understeer a little with suspension mods, but it was front pads every 10k on those things.

I loved it at the time, but looking back without the rose coloured glasses, they weren't real flash.

[VXSPR6]

Was too many pages ago but someone mentioned the TTV6 as a proposed engine for Holden having some 280kW and XXNm (can't remember). Anyway, as I understand, the TTV6 using the Alloytec engine is already in use in Europe in some form of Alfa (something like that) with a claimed 330kW. Heard that a fair while ago, when the Torana concept first came out...:)

[saleen1]

[QUOTE=vzsv6]These are my views:

As for reliability, lets just say I have heard quite a few horror stories already. QUOTE]
Tell us some of these stories then. And please refrain from any form of exageration or false information. I'm assuming when you say quite a few stories, you'd have 8 or 10 you can think of off the top of your head.

[Evil LS1]

Lol I would rather that tractor engine than the Alloytec in your car anyday of the week. NA or in Turbo form.

My view is Ford for 6's and Holden for 8's!

Cheers
Aus8

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Porsche and BMW for sixes mate. Ford's 4L still make a pathetic 190kW. The japs and euro's can get that from 3.0-3.5L easily.

[VXSS346]

The japs have those kw figures from 3-3.5 litres yes, but with no where near the same low down torque as a Ford 6. They need to be worked hard.

The euro's are in another class of their own, no point even compairing them to the others, and that's true for their V8's as well.
An ls1/2 and Ford V8 are a few classes below them. IMO

[flappist]

The japs have those kw figures from 3-3.5 litres yes, but with no where near the same low down torque as a Ford 6. They need to be worked hard.

The euro's are in another class of their own, no point even compairing them to the others, and that's true for their V8's as well.
An ls1/2 and Ford V8 are a few classes below them. IMO
This is Australia, not Germany or Japan where 102 RON petrol is everywhere and the only dirt road is in a display in museum.

You ever see a lot of 10 year old BMWs or jap stuff with lots of Ks? Unless it has had $lots spent on it it is usually very sad.

On the other hand there are bazillions of 10 to 20 year old commies & falcs with 200,000km ++ all over the place doing the same thing they did when they were new.

In my carpark at the moment is a 1989 EA Fairmont Ghia with what is basicly the same engine as my 2005 F6. It has 290,000km and is still on the original engine and transmission. It gets driven daily as the office rocket and never misses a beat. There is also a VN commy there that is used likewise (no idea how many Ks as it is out at the moment but it has LOTS.
On the other hand my company rollerskate (excel) has just over 100k on it and is always being repaired.

[SchrgdVSV6]

You ever see a lot of 10 year old BMWs or jap stuff with lots of Ks? Unless it has had $lots spent on it it is usually very sad.

:wave:
11yr old jap car, 200,000kms+, bolt on mods (runs on local 98 fuel) and cops a bootfull. Engine, turbos, trans, diff etc are all stock too. Ive owned other jap cars with high kms and never had any issues. Look after them (I only do general servicing since nothing has broken) and they will look after you. :)

[forcedindction]

Let's get something straight. Say all you want in regards to 6 cyl or 8cyl but he who bags forced induction is a complete fool !!! Force feeding more air into an engine is the best way to make power. Afterall, that is what we are trying to achieve to some degreen by using CAIs, exhausts, cams etc..

I think it would be great and sensible if Holden could bring out a turbo six. Problem is, that if it did (like Ford) it will pull the rug out from under its V8 market. Well, you'll always get those who will always prefer a V8, even though the six would smack it.

But I digress. To satisfy everyone, Holden should bring out a small capacity V8 with either Turbos or a supercharger. And yes. it would have DOHC , variable valve timing etc.. It would be around 4.0L in capacity and mated up to a 7 speed manual (I can dream can't I). Where do I sign ? :D

[McobraR]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Porsche and BMW for sixes mate. Ford's 4L still make a pathetic 190kW. The japs and euro's can get that from 3.0-3.5L easily.

Pathetic? Umm i think the alloytec is what you'd call pathetic. alloy block or not, it sounds crap, doesnt have the bottom end of the Ford, and still can't create a substantial enough lead to the ford in acceleration, remembering that the ford weighs more. Now that the falc has the same power as the high-po version of the alloytec (and more torque?), i'd like to see the faces of those SV6 owners when they come up next to an XT in the traffic lights :lol: , considering that the current model falc already keeps up with the high-po commie.
Fords I6 cannot match the jap and euro 6's cus the parts used in the I6 are to keep costs down, and in a marketing point of view, what other car can you get with this much power and torque for less than $35000. It'll be cheaper to use a big capacity engine and create decent power/litre than to engineer a small engine that creates really high power/litre. What do you think GMs doin with their GEN V8's, to keep costs down yet increase power, they just increase their engine capacity from 5.7 to 6. Now then, you CLEARLY must be calling the GENIV engine pathetic since its only got 297kw when a bmw can push 294kw/500nm out of....wait for it....5.0L's of 8?
All i can say is if an engine can produce good power and torque at a reasonable price, then i'm not complainin :D

[VXSS346]

This is Australia, not Germany or Japan where 102 RON petrol is everywhere and the only dirt road is in a display in museum.

You ever see a lot of 10 year old BMWs or jap stuff with lots of Ks? Unless it has had $lots spent on it it is usually very sad.

On the other hand there are bazillions of 10 to 20 year old commies & falcs with 200,000km ++ all over the place doing the same thing they did when they were new.

In my carpark at the moment is a 1989 EA Fairmont Ghia with what is basicly the same engine as my 2005 F6. It has 290,000km and is still on the original engine and transmission. It gets driven daily as the office rocket and never misses a beat. There is also a VN commy there that is used likewise (no idea how many Ks as it is out at the moment but it has LOTS.
On the other hand my company rollerskate (excel) has just over 100k on it and is always being repaired.


I agree with you there, Aussie cars are very reliable when looked after properly. But I think most others would be too, just that it cost more to service and replace parts etc in imported cars.

My previous point though was based on engine refinement, not reliability issues.
EG: A VN V6 rattles its head off from almost new but there still going today with 300,000+kms. But they sound like they should have died 10 years ago.

Cheers

[Nobby]

I agree with you there, Aussie cars are very reliable when looked after properly. But I think most others would be too, just that it cost more to service and replace parts etc in imported cars.

My previous point though was based on engine refinement, not reliability issues.
EG: A VN V6 rattles its head off from almost new but there still going today with 300,000+kms. But they sound like they should have died 10 years ago.

Cheers

I'll agree with this. My mates VN sounds like a dying dog taking his last fart, yet it still pulls nearly as hard as our AU, despite being some 7 years older or what ever it is.

The VN V6: The most equally impresssive and shite engine money can buy for the era.

[LT8888]

These are my views:

-The pre OHC falcon I6 had a redline of 4500rpm, the LOWEST of any car in Australian history. A breathless and wheezy excuse for an engine. Loads of torque on paper but nothing there when you put your foot down..Whats the story??

-The OHC I6 (EA - AU) is nothing but a troublesome, tappety, head gasket munching, oil leaking, lump of shoddy engineering. Anyone who claims they are reliable should get their hand off it quick smart. I have witnessed enough with my own eyes to justify such comments. A mechanic I know even says if it wasn't for these engines he'd be out of business.

-The BA I6 is just a continuation of this theme, albeit spruced up with "technology" such as DOHC and VCT, to hide its age old origins and to allow the marketing department to brainwash people into thinking it is a 'state of the art' modern engine.
It is hardly a cutting edge design. As someone already mentioned, look at the design of the intake manifold - a truly woeful design. As for reliability, lets just say I have heard quite a few horror stories already. If they still can't get right an engine they have been developing for 45 years, then something must be seriously wrong.

-Whoever mentioned one of these revving to 7500rpm, yeah right, maybe for a split second. With its long stroke it would struggle at these engine speeds.

-What's the big deal about the xr6 turbos?? Any bloody backyarder can bolt a turbo onto an engine and get more power out of it. Its not like Ford pioneered turbocharging... Whats the big deal?? You could bolt a turbo onto a Datsun 120Y and get some decent power out of it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the XR6 turbo was nothing but a marketing stunt, in a desperate attempt to win buyers. If it weren't for the failure of the AU do you think it would have ever existed? I don't think so.

IMO the ba has been excessively glorified and sensationalised.
I have driven most falcons including the ba, now if this I6 is 'so superior' as some claim, then why does it always feel so good to get back into a Commodore?

You seem to have forgotten that Holden have been using a wheezy 40+ yr old V6 up until last year and before an engine which they had to source elsewhere! So who are you to bag Ford's I6 when even the alloytec is not even considered as good by most publications?

[vzsv6]

Pathetic? Umm i think the alloytec is what you'd call pathetic. alloy block or not, it sounds crap, doesnt have the bottom end of the Ford, and still can't create a substantial enough lead to the ford in acceleration, remembering that the ford weighs more. Now that the falc has the same power as the high-po version of the alloytec (and more torque?)

Pfffft.... :rolleyes:

Maybe when the Alloytec gets an extra 400cc capacity and a ridiculously long stroke (which would look more at home on a truck specification sheet)it will be able to match or better the torque numbers of the falcon.
Besides, the Alloytec 190's torque output of 340nm isn't that much less than the falcons, the impression of lack of low down torque in the commo I would attribute to the tall final drive ratio.

And what you think the falcon six sounds good? It sounds shocking IMO, nothing but a gay sounding, uninspiring drone. At redline it sounds like a vacuum cleaner ready to explode :lol:

[vzsv6]

You seem to have forgotten that Holden have been using a wheezy 40+ yr old V6 up until last year

Just like the 40+ yr old I6 which ford are STILL using


So who are you to bag Ford's I6 when even the alloytec is not even considered as good by most publications?

And the motoring journalists who work for these publications... Who exactly are they??

[flappist]

Pfffft.... :rolleyes:

Maybe when the Alloytec gets an extra 400cc capacity and a ridiculously long stroke (which would look more at home on a truck specification sheet)it will be able to match or better the torque numbers of the falcon.
Besides, the Alloytec 190's torque output of 340nm isn't that much less than the falcons, the impression of lack of low down torque in the commo I would attribute to the tall final drive ratio.

And what you think the falcon six sounds good? It sounds shocking IMO, nothing but a gay sounding, uninspiring drone. At redline it sounds like a vacuum cleaner ready to explode :lol:
To hear this drone wouldn't you have to be BEHIND the falcon?

[vzsv6]

To hear this drone wouldn't you have to be BEHIND the falcon?


:rolleyes:No, inside it, unfortunately. :lol:

[saleen1]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Porsche and BMW for sixes mate. Ford's 4L still make a pathetic 190kW. The japs and euro's can get that from 3.0-3.5L easily.

And Holden make great V8's, oil companies love 'em :lol: :lol: :lol:

[VX-300]

http://postwhore.own3doutput.com/albums/userpics/10005/normal_trollspray.jpg

[gto015]

I have had both cars and both very modded
VY SS 270rwkw
HSV GTO 350rwkw
XR6 turbo 430rwkw

As far as sound my gto killed the xr6 turbo but as far as go a gen3 wont come anywhere near it
You get over the sound when your 10 car lenght's in front and pulling away :lol:

They are both great cars and both engines i like both ford and holden i just believe that the xr6 turbo engine is an awesome thing and it wont be long until these things are doing 8's as street cars
Holden should bring out a turbo 6 would be good to see

[McobraR]

Pfffft.... :rolleyes:

Maybe when the Alloytec gets an extra 400cc capacity and a ridiculously long stroke (which would look more at home on a truck specification sheet)it will be able to match or better the torque numbers of the falcon.
Besides, the Alloytec 190's torque output of 340nm isn't that much less than the falcons, the impression of lack of low down torque in the commo I would attribute to the tall final drive ratio.

And what you think the falcon six sounds good? It sounds shocking IMO, nothing but a gay sounding, uninspiring drone. At redline it sounds like a vacuum cleaner ready to explode :lol:

whats wrong with having truck-like torque? also i didnt say the falcon I6 sounded good, just better than the alloytec.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

A Falcon I6 with a good exhaust system sounds wicked.
I've got an EF falcon futura at home with pacemaker headers and a custom twin 2.5" system. Once it revs past 2000rpm the sound it makes is pure bliss. Very similar to a skyline's rb26 blare imo.

[SSFreak]

I have had both cars and both very modded
VY SS 270rwkw
HSV GTO 350rwkw
XR6 turbo 430rwkw

As far as sound my gto killed the xr6 turbo but as far as go a gen3 wont come anywhere near it. You get over the sound when your 10 car lenght's in front and pulling away

Gee I don't know but I would have thought 430rwkw vs 350rwkw or 270rwkw might have something to do with it. Not really a valid comparision IMHO.

[HSVMAN]

Gee I don't know but I would have thought 430rwkw vs 350rwkw or 270rwkw might have something to do with it. Not really a valid comparision IMHO.
Little maths lesson learnt there maybe? They are all capable of more, but no use comparing modified cars that are'nt even close in power.
However maybe the LS1 beasts will be alive for much much longer :D

[gto015]

Gee I don't know but I would have thought 430rwkw vs 350rwkw or 270rwkw might have something to do with it. Not really a valid comparision IMHO.

Wasnt comapiring power figures

Wasnt compairing cars over all but if you want to compair figures find me an ls1 that does 9.9 with 430rwkw and that see how much it cost him to do it
The xr6 turbo is a much eaier acr to get power from and alot cheaper
But wasnt trying to compair them at all they are 2 different cars and 2 different fields

[flappist]

Hang on guys, I thought this was the "when will Holden make a turbo" thread not YET ANOTHER LS1 vs XR6T vs LS1 with edit vs XR6T with mods vs whatever like the last 40 gazillion simmilar rants.

I suspect if it does not get back on track it will be smote by the hand of LS1_God or one of his Archangels .........

[gsw]

Just like the 40+ yr old I6 which ford are STILL using

Name one part that is identicle?

[clixanup]

... smote ...

:confused: Is that a word?

You sure its not "smitten"? :love2: :lol:

[clixanup]

Name one part that is identicle?

1. Bore spacing.

2. Crank shaft.

3. Oil filter.

4. Starter motor.

Now stop this sh1tfight.

[flappist]

:confused: Is that a word?

You sure its not "smitten"? :love2: :lol:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=smote

clever thing this internet........

[vzsv6]

Name one part that is identicle?

If that is your logic then why do people bag out the Ecotec V6 for being 40+ years old. Name one part of the Ecotec or even pre Ecotec V6 that is identical to the original 1950's design???

[gsw]

If that is your logic then why do people bag out the Ecotec V6 for being 40+ years old. Name one part of the Ecotec or even pre Ecotec V6 that is identical to the original 1950's design???

I have never said anything about the V6, you are bagging out the I6 like a 10 year old so that's why I asked the question.

[VXSS346]

To me both holden and ford sixes (and V8's) lag behind in Technology, it doesn't worry me which 1 lags more than the other.
Who cares, they all do the job and do it very well.

[VooDoo]

http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/album19/punchthread.jpg

[vzsv6]

you are bagging out the I6 like a 10 year old so that's why I asked the question.


What do you want me to do, get down on my knees and worship the POS??
It is my opinion and I don't have to justify it to anyone. If you don't like it tough. The Ford I6 is, always has been, and always will be, nothing but a boat anchor in my eyes. Full stop.

Don't bother replying, thats all I've got to say in the matter.

[McobraR]

I respect your view.
In my eyes the alloytec is NOT a world engine, and gets beaten in refinement and smoothness by a 'boat anchor' of an engine, even in its high-po version.

[seldo]

:confused: Is that a word?

You sure its not "smitten"? :love2: :lol:
Correct. In that tense context it is "smitten". It is like "rode" and "ridden" - he rode, he will be ridden - he smote, he will be smitten.
Don't you hate pedants..;)

[double k]

aren't forums good. you ask a question to a topic and you get a topic within a topic and within that you get a thousand other topics.

plant the seed and it will grow.

[HSVMAN]

To me both holden and ford sixes (and V8's) lag behind in Technology, it doesn't worry me which 1 lags more than the other.
Who cares, they all do the job and do it very well.

Would you like to elaborate on that? - the Holden side of things only.
Given that we were originally talking about whether or not it is suited to forced induction and whether Holden should market it in that format :confused:

[Mickey T]

Sigh.

OK. I'll go back to this thread's original topic and give you a free hit so you can all calm down.

VE II, around April, 2008.

[clixanup]

Correct. In that tense context it is "smitten". It is like "rode" and "ridden" - he rode, he will be ridden - he smote, he will be smitten.
Don't you hate pedants..;)
YAY...WOOHOO...YIPPEE :dance:

I finally said something on these forums which is technically correct... :lol: :cool:

Who's ya daddy? :D

[RED R8]

What do you want me to do, get down on my knees and worship the POS??
It is my opinion and I don't have to justify it to anyone. If you don't like it tough. The Ford I6 is, always has been, and always will be, nothing but a boat anchor in my eyes. Full stop.

Don't bother replying, thats all I've got to say in the matter.
Your call a ford 6 a boat anchor this is so not true My uncle Gino has a cray boat and he used a fairly new ford 6 as a boat anchor but found the block was so porous that it kept floating back to the surface and the head leaked so bad the oil slick went for miles so even he prefers the holden 6. :D

[VXSS346]

Would you like to elaborate on that? - the Holden side of things only.
Given that we were originally talking about whether or not it is suited to forced induction and whether Holden should market it in that format

I'm just stating my opinion.
I love my Commodore but I'm man enough to admit that's its not the best car in the world, far from it.

I know its off the topic but that was the current discussion in the thread at that point. Is that a problem?

[Shane-o]

A few pages back I read where someone mentioned about Fuel economy/Ford Turbo's vs Holden 8's and how dull they are.
V8 technology is not dull and from what I have heard about next Gen V8's over in the States it sounds unreal, Where 4 of the 8 cylinders can be automatically shut off when not needed to give excellent fuel economy and switched back on when power is required, Best of both worlds! V8 technology is not dull at all in my opinion! Would be awesome to have V8 power as now but also the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder when driving steady.

As for the Turbo debate have ford people forgotten?, Holden once OWNED in that area YEARS AGO with the good ol' VL Turbo that used the Nissan Motor long before these ricer cars where even in this country, Still see these VL's breaking records on track.I'm sure Holden will release a Turbo version of some sort in the VE when they see fit to do so.
Fingers crossed I'm hoping the reason they scrapped the awesome Monaro was to clear Production line to make way for Twin Turbo TORANA(I WISH). :)

[Mickey T]

Ok, one last time for the slow... There will be a single turbo version launched at VE II around April 2008. Same time as the diesel. No more free hits, guys!

[myles]

Ok, one last time for the slow... There will be a single turbo version launched at VE II around April 2008. Same time as the diesel. No more free hits, guys!

Thanks for the heads up Mickey T. :cheers: :cool: