4l60e Compared With 4l65e Auto.

[Pickles]

To the best of my knowledge, all Monaros are fitted with the 4L60E Auto, whereas later HSVs are fitted with the 4L65E. I have heard that comparing these transmissions is like comparing a Turbo 350 with a Turbo 400!! What are the actual differences between these transmissions? If the 65E is stronger, where is it stronger? Finally, if one was after say 250 RWKW in a Monaro, would the 4L60E be ok, & if it is not, then what would be involved in making it strongrer? Cheers, Pickles.

[Blown 454 AWD]

With the kW you are talking about, if you had the 4l60e toughened, you would be fine.

Shift kit would be mandatory for hooning, as with higher torque, you will stuff your clutches and bands if they slip when changing under power, the change must be firm.

With AWD you are usually OK unless you go past the magic 400 fwkW.

Call Craig and av a chat.

[Muzzak]

Actually if I'm not wrong..the VZ Monaro and the limited CV8Z have the 4l65e as standard.

And as far as tech specs : http://www.fastfieros.com/tech/4l60_4l65e.htm


Muz

[Pickles]

Actually if I'm not wrong..the VZ Monaro and the limited CV8Z have the 4l65e as standard.

And as far as tech specs : http://www.fastfieros.com/tech/4l60_4l65e.htm


MuzNot sure about the VZ having the 4L65E as standard, maybe some-one else can advise, but the other info with respect to 4l60/4l65 comparisons was great info, & just what I was looking for. Thanks Muzzak. Cheers, Pickles.

[Muzzak]

Check this NRMA link re Auto tranny in VZ munro....

http://www.mynrma.com.au/monaro_vz_drive_impression.asp

"Transmissions have also come in for some change with a new M12 six-speed manual offering shorter ratios up to fourth gear giving better performance and torque availability. In automatic versions the heavy duty 4L65 four-speed normally found in HSV variants and commercial vehicles is now standard."

[Ls1CorpCruiser]

OK!!!

I have a question!!!

I own a 2004 WK HSV Grange.

According to my knowledge this car was fitted with a 4l65e tranny. However at around 90,000km it was replaced under warranty by GM.

NOW!!! when it was being fitted, I saw with my own eyes the crate was labelled 4l60e.

When I questioned the Service manager, I was told there was no difference between the 4l60e and 4l65e any more and that was the GM replacement.

Is this right or not???

Where do I get the correct answer on this???

If its wrong I will be demanding a 4l65e replacement.

After all I shelled out $90k on a car fitted with a 4l65e then I want a ****en 4l65e.

Any help appreciated.

[Muzzak]

OK!!!

I have a question!!!

I own a 2004 WK HSV Grange.

According to my knowledge this car was fitted with a 4l65e tranny. However at around 90,000km it was replaced under warranty by GM.

NOW!!! when it was being fitted, I saw with my own eyes the crate was labelled 4l60e.

When I questioned the Service manager, I was told there was no difference between the 4l60e and 4l65e any more and that was the GM replacement.

Is this right or not???

Where do I get the correct answer on this???

If its wrong I will be demanding a 4l65e replacement.

After all I shelled out $90k on a car fitted with a 4l65e then I want a ****en 4l65e.

Any help appreciated.


Well clearly the 4l65e is a superior transmission, and more costly. I would get solid confirmation the 2004 WK HSV Grange is indeed standard equipped with the 4l65e. I would then get an independed inspection to confirm what has been fitted to your car. Perhaps the service manager is now driving with 4l65e on his GenIII 1997 VTII executive ? LOL

No but really this would be no laughing matter. If you have been duped I would get consumer affairs involved right away. Dear god it's a scary world if this is indeed the case.

Muz

[tlr1000]

Hi ls1 corpcruiser,
When they order a auto for your car they write down the serial number located on the back of the extention housing, you would hope they gave you the same type of auto back.Generally if the cars done more then 5,000km you get a reco auto, not a so called brand new one as the dealer was trying to tell me. I found this out when i got the auto done in my vy.

[pmpddyanlgrkn]

Guy's the only major difference is the planetary's ..

The 4L60E has 4 pinion planetary's .
The 4L65E has 5 pinion planetary's .

Holden realised the 4L60E has a fundimental flaw .

Under load the input and output shafts can flex between there bushings , causing the driven sungear to move and missalign in the planetary .
If the sungear is missaligned it may only make use of 40% of its contact surface area . This minimal contact breaks the teeth on the planetary ..

So in putting the 5 pinion planetary in the 4L65E trans , even if the sungear moves the extra pinion gear creates more surface contact on the missaligned sungear , increasing surface contact and helping supporting the load .

The 5 pinion planetary is a band-aid fix to strengthen the trans and aid in shaft support .
In my opinion a properly modified 4 pinion 4L60E trans is much stronger than the standard 5 pinion 4L65E transmission ..

[Sid447]

OK!!!

I have a question!!!

I own a 2004 WK HSV Grange.

According to my knowledge this car was fitted with a 4l65e tranny. However at around 90,000km it was replaced under warranty by GM.
NOW!!! when it was being fitted, I saw with my own eyes the crate was labelled 4l60e.
...............Any help appreciated.

Check your car build plate,

Or whatever it's called. It's under the bonnet, on the crossmember over the passenger side headlight.

If it has stamped... TRANS: M30 it was factory fitted with a 4L60-E
If it has stamped... TRANS: M32 ...that's the 4L65-E.

[Jimbo_AUS]

The 5 pinion planetary is a band-aid fix to strengthen the trans and aid in shaft support .
In my opinion a properly modified 4 pinion 4L60E trans is much stronger than the standard 5 pinion 4L65E transmission ..

I think this sums it up and discounts your opinion on the differences.

"The L65 is stronger all around," says Ford. "Although it was initially developed for truck applications, the gearing we've developed for automotive duty cycles makes it a great performance upgrade. Right out of the box, it can handle about 20 percent more torque than the L60."

In a nutshell, the L65 differs from the 4L60-E in these ways:
* Five-pinion gears for input and reaction gearsets (versus four-pinion gears in the L60)
* Heat-treated stator shaft splines
* Induction hardened turbine shaft
* Heavier-duty low/reverse roller clutch
* Additional friction plate added to 3-4 clutch (seven plates versus six in L60)
* Shot-peened output shaft
* Revised valve body calibration.

This doesn't sound like a "band aid" change to me and I wonder what exactly you mean by a "properly modified" 4L60E.

[CV8-RO]

The only ls1 powered holden that has 65e transmission is VZ Monaro. :)

[Tonner]

GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE (http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/vz/index.html)

AND ME :rolleyes: and Davo's Crewie non awd

[CV8-RO]

Is that in standard trim or added as a modification
^^Didn't know that

[Tonner]

6/2004 was stock replaced with the same tranny, 4l65E at about 20000k Click onto engine specs at the bottom of the page for in the post above. (unofficial Holden Archive) I know they do make mistakes there too as they didn,t mention for the late VY11 either. but they had em. :)

[chops]

Yes I was led to believe the one tonner got the 65.

[ACT_Cross8]

If it has stamped... TRANSMISSION: M30 it was factory fitted with a 4L60-E
If it has stamped... TRANSMISSION: M32 that's the 4L65-E.

My VY Cross8 has MD6. What does that make it? I thought it was 4L65E too.

[Nursing_Mother]

Myself and Gareth have discussed the whole 4L60 vs 4L65 thing many times and we concluded the 4L60 is a spindly and troublesome transmission and the 4L65E is a full tilt race trans...isnt that right G-Node :lol:

[andrewdisco]

My clubsport has an M30.... :(

[chops]

Yes I believe VY2 got the 65 in the Clubby andrewdisco.

[Gareth@Willall]

Myself and Gareth have discussed the whole 4L60 vs 4L65 thing many times and we concluded the 4L60 is a spindly and troublesome transmission and the 4L65E is a full tilt race trans...isnt that right G-Node :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

U tool. My spindly box seems ok to me :stick:

[andrewdisco]

d'oh! thanks chops.

[LS1LHTORANA]

Guys,
Some more useful info for you all from GM - straight from the GMPP catalog, The 4L60-E trans is rated at 370lb-ft and the 4L65-E is rated at 380lb-ft. As stated by others, the 4L65-E has 5 pinion gearsets, seven plate clutch, hardened input shaft and shot peened output shaft. One interesting thing to note is the gear ratios:

4L60-E - 3.06 / 1.75 / 1.00 / 0.70

4L65-E - 3.06 / 1.62 / 1.00 / 0.70

Hope this helps.

Geoff.:)

[Sid447]

Guys,
Some more useful info for you all from GM - straight from the GMPP catalog, The 4L60-E trans is rated at 370lb-ft and the 4L65-E is rated at 380lb-ft. As stated by others, the 4L65-E has 5 pinion gearsets, seven plate clutch, hardened input shaft and shot peened output shaft. One interesting thing to note is the gear ratios:

4L60-E - 3.06 / 1.75 / 1.00 / 0.70

4L65-E - 3.06 / 1.62 / 1.00 / 0.70

Hope this helps.Geoff.:)

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/r_cars/truck%20eng%20trans.html

I'd say the typist at GMPP is wrong.

[Tonner]

And Here is a bit if trivia, and more info http://www.fastfieros.com/tech/4l60_4l65e.htm

BIONIC TRANNY:rolleyes: :lol:

[Nursing_Mother]

And Here is a bit if trivia, and more info http://www.fastfieros.com/tech/4l60_4l65e.htm

BIONIC TRANNY:rolleyes: :lol:
Tonner that is absolute gold my friend,it just adds weight to the whole tonners vs ute thing...i still love my Tonner:dance: :headbang: :driving: :love2:

[Tonner]

Tonner that is absolute gold my friend,it just adds weight to the whole tonners vs ute thing...i still love my Tonner:dance: :headbang: :driving: :love2:
Yeh Its just ..:cool:

[LS7HSVWAGON]

Brilliant this is exactly the info i was after. Cheers guys

RW

[Gen111Staty]

Guys,
I have just come back from the tranny doctor with bad news, I have blown the planetaries in the rear of my 4L60E. He sid that it is possible that the problem stems from the radiator repair I had done the day before. It appears that they may have crossed the cooler lines or blocked the same. Has any one blown one of these in this way or is it coimmon.

Ta Moz!!

[bevoracing]

My VY Cross8 has MD6. What does that make it? I thought it was 4L65E too.

I know this is a very old post but the answer doesn't seem to exist anywhere that I can find.
My 2/2004 Crewman VY-2 Cross 8 Ute has Trans - MD6 on the plate. The trans is all over the bench at Gawler Automatics, and it has a 4L65E in it, with 5 planetary gears.
Of course after almost 15 years that may make no difference. I do know the trans was re-built in 2009 with no mention of upgrading the planetaries on the extensive receipt that came with the car.
MD6 could also refer to the fact that it has a transfer case hanging on the back, and not relate to the box being a 4L60E or 4L65E.
Anyway, this adds more to the conversation than I could find, so hope it helps someone.
Cheers
Tony

[68LS1]

Cross 8 got the 4L65e