Victorian Government

[Vx_Adonis]

The states finances arent doing as well as our treasurer would like....Last night, 12.15am (i had to look at my clock to doublecheck i wasnt dreaming) on Doncaster Rd, the car in front of me got snapped by a speed camera van. He was probably doing not more than 8k's above limit. 4 lane road, virtually no cars in sight, no little kids to run onto the road.....
I thought that most mobile speed cameras stopped operating late at night, due to safety concerns? One day, some speed camera operator will get seriously bashed - i know that if it was me getting snapped last night, the temptation would have been there.

[VooDoo]

The guy in the van is just doing the job he was asked to. Its not like he has a choice to flash someone or not. He is just following the gidelines set by the Govt. Bashing him for doing his job would be pretty silly.

Unfortunately the Govt and police have to be seen to be doing the right thing to the majority and that means trying to get ppl to slow down. Their methods dont really work of course but its a way of increasing revinue while being seen to be saving lives on the raods.

[chevypower]

WRONG! Anybody can be more choosy about their jobs than that. Why is he operating speed cameras? For the same reason the government is, to get money. We all know there are other ways to earn a living and for the government to get revenue. A prostitute can't blame her employer for getting pregnant because she was told to do her job. I have no sympathy for speed camera operators. Either support and take responsibility for what you do, or change your career path.

[Doug]

While rare, I've seen camera cars out before 6am some mornings in Melbourne. They don't rest.

[bricat]

You know the only whingers are those that speed and get booked. I love the camera's The more people that get booked the less taxes I pay. As for the time that the camera was working I suppose you should make up your own mind about when it is safe to speed? Yeah dream on with the other 2 million road uses who all make up their own minds about which red light to go through etc etc etc... And if it was revenue raising I am sure they would be operating 24/7. And I obey the road rules.(most of the time)

[XsPwr2W8]

You know the only whingers are those that speed and get booked. I love the camera's The more people that get booked the less taxes I pay. As for the time that the camera was working I suppose you should make up your own mind about when it is safe to speed? Yeah dream on with the other 2 million road uses who all make up their own minds about which red light to go through etc etc etc... And if it was revenue raising I am sure they would be operating 24/7. And I obey the road rules.(most of the time)

You will still be paying the same ammount of tax!, and I'd like to see you write that again when you get booked for doing 2Ks over the limit at 12 o'clock at night on an empty road. Going by ADR's law states your cars spedo dosent even have to be that accurate, so figure that out?

[220i]

The accuracy of the speedo is a big issue I think and also the extent of powers the cops have. Basically they can estimate your speed without evidence and book you. Its your word against theirs, so whats stopping them from just picking and choosing who they pull over and book.
If a cop gets a radar reading of say 118km/h and gets someone on a highway, can that cop keep that particular reading on the radar and just pull the next car over and get them and use that as their 'proof'. Obviously there are stories about people getting shown strange readings and swear they were not speeding but can't fight it as theres no evidence for the driver. I know it can be all bs but i'd hate to get done NOT speeding and not having a bloody leg to stand on.

[bricat]

I would like to say there is not one person out there who has been booked by a camera for 2 km/h over the speed limit. As for speedo accuracy it used to be the speedo was indicating 2 km/h over the speed at 60 km/h and 4km/h over at 100 km/h :60 was actually 58 and 100 was actually 96. So if you got booked speeding you were doing alot more on your speedo that booked for by the camera Go figure

[surfmaster59]

The accuracy of the speedo is a big issue I think and also the extent of powers the cops have. Basically they can estimate your speed without evidence and book you. Its your word against theirs, so whats stopping them from just picking and choosing who they pull over and book.


Doesn't it follow then that a speed camera that provides photographic evidence of the offence is a better way of detecting the offence?

[Vx_Adonis]

You know the only whingers are those that speed and get booked. I love the camera's The more people that get booked the less taxes I pay. As for the time that the camera was working I suppose you should make up your own mind about when it is safe to speed? Yeah dream on with the other 2 million road uses who all make up their own minds about which red light to go through etc etc etc... And if it was revenue raising I am sure they would be operating 24/7. And I obey the road rules.(most of the time)

People like you make me laugh...
The government is raking in more revenue with the increase in the price of petrol, but are we paying less tax?
Going through a red light is abit more dangerous than doing 10ks over the limit at midnight on a deserted road.
Im not whigeing 'cos i got caught, just the fact that its more dangerous to constantly be looking at your speedo, than to be doing a speed which is more realistic and keeps you focused on the job of driving.

[xshore]

my younger sis was driving me somewhere the other day, fresh on her P's. She was driving blind due to always being concerned if she was a few km's over the limit. Where's the safety in that ? Oh I know, she should drive 20km/hr under the limit ? May as well ride a bike. I disagree with this 3km and your nabbed rule.

[bricat]

Watching the speedo all the time!!!! Part of your licence test was to obey the speed limit. Tell me that whilst on your test you lobbed over the limit by 5 km/h. I don't think so. So part of driving is watching your speed no matter what time of day. If the police/politicians thought that it would be safe to increase the speed limit after midnight then it would happen. But it hasn't. It would be fair to say the rules are set for everyone. Good drivers,excellant drivers and bad drivers. So you have to compromise. Life is like that. Compromise compromise compromise I would like to go to work about say 10.am and finish about 2pm. Oh I still want the same pay of course. It ain't going to happen!!!!!!!

[220i]

Doesn't it follow then that a speed camera that provides photographic evidence of the offence is a better way of detecting the offence?

Fair enough but can a still photograph prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were speeding. I mean how one really tell if a car is doing 80km/h or 87km/h by a still photo. I know technically the photo should only be taken when it detects a speeding car but at the end of it all it could be fudged.

[Vulture]

my younger sis was driving me somewhere the other day, fresh on her P's. She was driving blind due to always being concerned if she was a few km's over the limit. Where's the safety in that ? Oh I know, she should drive 20km/hr under the limit ? May as well ride a bike. I disagree with this 3km and your nabbed rule.

That really is an important point: I often wonder at what sort of road safety effect the constant speedo watching is having. Unfortunately it would be very difficult to measure. Even in my short driving career (17 years) I have noticed that the frequency in which I look at the speedo has increased dramatically. Add up all those extra seconds on a population basis over a year and you arrive at a huge chunk of inattention to the road ahead.

The whole 'speed kills' propoganda is one of the worst frauds to be foisted on motorists. Every developed country has a similar rate and similar decline in road deaths regardless of the approach they take to speed enforcement. I don't think it is being overly cycnical to declare that our governments' approach is blatant REVENUE RAISING.

[keepleft]

You know the only whingers are those that speed and get booked.

* More to what constitutes 'speeding' than numbers on a speed-limit sign or written default child.


I love the camera's

* Your 'odd'.


The more people that get booked the less taxes I pay.

* The fewer people pay the more revenue will be made elswhere to make up any shortfall.


As for the time that the camera was working I suppose you should make up your own mind about when it is safe to speed?

* YES ABSOLUTELY, if you in your simple minded state think for one second that only speed above the limit is 'speeding' then your dead wrong, and easily indoctrinated.


Yeah dream on with the other 2 million road uses who all make up their own minds about which red light to go through

* What? A red light offence is totally different to speed of vehicle. Doing either may or may not be safe at point of operation, whether it is safe at that point has bugger all to do with the rules as coded at law.



And if it was revenue raising I am sure they would be operating 24/7. And I obey the road rules. (most of the time)

Speed detection operates 24 hours a day though Victoria operates, or likes to think it does 'very tight' tolerances. What method is used will in all cases vary, but for those that are caught above 'the speed limit' which arguably on some roads are too slow, the result is the same.


I'd be happier targetting those who actually 'crash'.

One thig for sure, Australia's 'states' will remain with low open road limits, with some to be reduced from 110km/h to 100 - 90km/h, you'll see, it's that 'speed' issue again.

[keepleft]

BRICAT wrote: You know the only whingers are those that speed and get booked.

* More to what constitutes 'speeding' than numbers on a speed-limit sign or written default child.


I love the camera's

* Your 'odd'.


The more people that get booked the less taxes I pay.

* The fewer people pay the more revenue will be made elswhere to make up any shortfall.


As for the time that the camera was working I suppose you should make up your own mind about when it is safe to speed?

* YES ABSOLUTELY, if you in your simple minded state think for one second that only speed above the limit is 'speeding' then your dead wrong, and easily indoctrinated.


Yeah dream on with the other 2 million road uses who all make up their own minds about which red light to go through

* What? A red light offence is totally different to speed of vehicle. Doing either may or may not be safe at point of operation, whether it is safe at that point has bugger all to do with the rules as coded at law.


And if it was revenue raising I am sure they would be operating 24/7. And I obey the road rules. (most of the time).

* Speed detection operates 24 hours a day though Victoria operates, or likes to think it does 'very tight' tolerances. What method is used will in all cases vary, but for those that are caught above 'the speed limit' which arguably on some roads are too slow, the result is the same.

I'd be happier targetting those who actually 'crash'.

So which 'rulez' do you opt to disobey sometimes Bricat??

One thig for sure, Australian 'states' will remain with low open-road and freeway speed limits, with some to be reduced from 110km/h to the 100 - 90km/h range, you'll see, it's that 'speed' issue again.

[markone2]

Slightly OT but worthy of note….

*SUNDAY MAIL* QLD

*BLUEY GORMAN GOES OUT WITH GUNS BLAZING*

Queensland’s most decorated cop, Inspector John O’Gorman will retire on Friday ending a career that started in 1966.

In an exclusive interview with The Sunday Mail he revealed his thoughts on a range of issues . number one…
*Too many people are being pinched for trivial driving offences : POLICE should not be Revenue-Raisers*

[bricat]

If you think I am odd because I like the cameras perhaps you should go and ask a few people out in the world who do obey the road laws and constantly see vehicles speeding past them. The silent majority endorse what the pollies/police do, maybe not everything. And who likes getting booked? No one I would think. The trouble is you can do a thousand things wrong on the roads and only get caught once and then scream like a stuck pig. If there were more police and more cameras( redlight and speed ) and you thought there was a chance you would be caught you would not do it. As for targetting those people who crash Too late The damage is already done. And for every death there is 10 injured bodies. Some who will be confined to wheel chairs or disfigured for life. The cost of doctors and hospitals etc etc is what we all pay for. So I pay for you to speed, then crash, and I have to pay to fix you up and look after you for the rest of your life because your incapacitated. (or the person you hit) Best that you get caught speeding and pay for the privelidge of doing it so I don't pay Cheers

[XsPwr2W8]

If you think I am odd because I like the cameras perhaps you should go and ask a few people out in the world who do obey the road laws and constantly see vehicles speeding past them. The silent majority endorse what the pollies/police do, maybe not everything. And who likes getting booked? No one I would think. The trouble is you can do a thousand things wrong on the roads and only get caught once and then scream like a stuck pig. If there were more police and more cameras( redlight and speed ) and you thought there was a chance you would be caught you would not do it. As for targetting those people who crash Too late The damage is already done. And for every death there is 10 injured bodies. Some who will be confined to wheel chairs or disfigured for life. The cost of doctors and hospitals etc etc is what we all pay for. So I pay for you to speed, then crash, and I have to pay to fix you up and look after you for the rest of your life because your incapacitated. (or the person you hit) Best that you get caught speeding and pay for the privelidge of doing it so I don't pay Cheers

Isn't it past you bed time old man!, Yeah I'll ask those people who see people go speeding past them, ask them why they are doing 15Km below the already intolerable speed limit in the right hand lane :mad: :mad: :mad: :bash:
Some of us do have places to go and things to do, were not just waiting around to die a boring death (slowly)!!!!

[bricat]

There is nothing wrong with being cautious on our roads. And how did you know it was my bedtime????? :o :o :o :box:

[chevypower]

Dictatorship can force people to do things, but it can't TEACH people correct attitudes that only a spirit-of-the-law can assist. We have people dying all the time fighting for one thing! To protect our freedom. Sometimes freedom comes at the cost of lives, but in the case of the crackdown on speeding, I dont think our previous freedom over the current dictatorship cost any more casualties. Today we pay for the dictatorship in increase "voluntary taxes" (fines) without any significant decrease in casualties.... and drivers are not learning how to drive anymore - they just know how to operate a vehicle, which is different. Another proof that it is dictatorship - remember the certain Labor politicians who didnt want increase in driver education, because of the fear of drivers being "too educated" - sounds like the same thing which has being going on in Iraq for years with general education. Then there is the debate that driving (drifting) too slow, causes lack of attention and care while driving a vehicle (and this is evident on Victorian roads today), and therefore increases driving risks in many other areas. Get rid of Big Brother type of Policing. I think most urban limits in Victoria are acceptable, I believe freeway limits are way too slow, I also believe a 10% tolerance should be acceptable, as well as a 10% under the limit tolerance. Things that should be enforced more are keeping left unless overtaking, and cars that wait in the middle of an intersection so they dont have to wait for the next set of lights, meanwhile they hold up the other flow of traffic when they get the green.

[XsPwr2W8]

Dictatorship can force people to do things, but it can't TEACH people correct attitudes that only a spirit-of-the-law can assist. We have people dying all the time fighting for one thing! To protect our freedom. Sometimes freedom comes at the cost of lives, but in the case of the crackdown on speeding, I dont think our previous freedom over the current dictatorship cost any more casualties. Today we pay for the dictatorship in increase "voluntary taxes" (fines) without any significant decrease in casualties.... and drivers are not learning how to drive anymore - they just know how to operate a vehicle, which is different. Another proof that it is dictatorship - remember the certain Labor politicians who didnt want increase in driver education, because of the fear of drivers being "too educated" - sounds like the same thing which has being going on in Iraq for years with general education. Then there is the debate that driving (drifting) too slow, causes lack of attention and care while driving a vehicle (and this is evident on Victorian roads today), and therefore increases driving risks in many other areas. Get rid of Big Brother type of Policing. I think most urban limits in Victoria are acceptable, I believe freeway limits are way too slow, I also believe a 10% tolerance should be acceptable, as well as a 10% under the limit tolerance. Things that should be enforced more are keeping left unless overtaking, and cars that wait in the middle of an intersection so they dont have to wait for the next set of lights, meanwhile they hold up the other flow of traffic when they get the green.


Amen Brother!!! :D :D :bow:

[Vulture]

So I pay for you to speed, then crash, and I have to pay to fix you up and look after you for the rest of your life because **you're** incapacitated.

Your argument here would hold some weight if speeding above the speed limit was a major cause of road trauma. It is not.

The very most that this is thought to be with the best evidence from around the world, official figures mind, is at the very most 10%. The Australian data is hugely misleading in that "speeding" is taken to mean inappropriate speed UNDER the speed limit as well as speeding ABOVE the speed limit. This is how they arrive at the highly dubious 30-40% of "speed related" crashes. Shockingly dishonest, in my opinion. These figures ("speed-related" crashes) are then used to justify harsh over-the-limit speed enforcement. What about the other 90% of causes of road trauma? The approach by our governments is wilful negligence if you consider that they put a large swathe of effort into a minor cause of road crashes. It's even worse if one considers that there really is no evidence that the harsh speed enforcement regime actually works. Who should be accountable for this nonsense? Road safety initiative doesn't work; they still keep promoting it - isn't that negligent?

[Vx_Adonis]

What really pisses me off is when the cops tell the public that every kmh over the speed limit is a killer, and here in Vic we have the 'wipe off 5' campaign - BUT, when the cops threaten to take industrial action over a pay rise or their superannuation claims, they say they wont issue fines for 'low level' speeding, and by doing this, maintain that they dont want to put the public at risk!
Am i missing something here or not? The cops must think we are stupid - what they are indirectly saying is that when they issue 'low level' speeding tickets, its not for safety, but for revenue reasons for the government.

[Vulture]

...when the cops threaten to take industrial action over a pay rise or their superannuation claims, they say they wont issue fines for 'low level' speeding...

Nice one. There is an implicit message that safety is really a secondary consideration. They know where to hit GovCo where it hurts.

[XsPwr2W8]

Hmmm... Victoria Police Pty. Ltd. I Wonder when they will be listed on the australian stock exchange?? :shock:
Now that would be a company worth investing in!!