Help for the Lowly Consumer

[Flirtatious]

I am desperately trying to find someone who is willing to submit a brief opinion on the ins and outs of a particular panel beating/repair job for a dispute I have with my insurance company.

In brief I took my car to a Panel Beater in December 2005 for an insurance claim for which I was found not a fault and my insurer paid for, while it was there I had additional works done including the replacement of the driver’s side headlight and I was lead to believe the front grill also. While the car was in lien of the Panel Beaters significant mechanical and structural damage was incurred, resulting in another accident within 6 days of the return of the car.

It is my position, with the full support of my mechanic and the claims liaison officer at my insurance company, that the damage was the direct cause of the subsequent accident as the steering locked up and I was unable to turn the vehicle, and that the Panel Beater had ample opportunity to view the damage to my vehicle as it was obvious - even to me.

The left hand engine mount had broken causing the engine to lean quite substantially to the left, and sit on the steering. Upon acceleration and turning there was a loud metallic thump coming from the front end of the vehicle. However if the car was travelling at semi-constant speed and in a relatively straight line there was no noise and no noticeable effect to the cars mobility or control. When I lifted the bonnet following the accident to check my radiator and investigate the extent of the damage from the accident, the damage to the engine was quite clear which is why I took the car straight to the mechanics. They refused to return the car to me until the damage was repaired given the dangerous nature of the damage and the reasonable foreseeability of another accident.

I believe that during the replacement of the headlight, by the panel beaters, and I am lead to believe the front grill also, that the Panel Beaters would have definitely had the bonnet of the car up. My understanding is that is practice to disconnect the battery before any electrical work is done. Furthermore it is impossible to replace the lamp in an Astra without removing the screws from the inside of the car. If indeed they replaced the grill also this too would require the bonnet up. Further to this I am lead to believe that it is practice to view the specifics of the car - the engine number, the year of manufacture, the other numbers etc that are embossed on the inside plate of the car.

I also believe that during this time when the bonnet was up there was opportunity to view the damage, given its obvious nature, and that it is reasonable to expect that the Panel Beaters had a duty of care to let me know that something didn’t' look right when I picked up the car. By failing to point out the damage, or seek instruction as to the repair of the damage in they contributed to the subsequent accident by way of negligence/tort law.

My insurance company maintains that the Panel Beaters had no reason to have the bonnet up for any repairs (regardless of whether the damage was to be seen during my repairs or during theirs) and that therefore there was no way that the Panel Beaters could have seen the damage. Furthermore they maintain that there was no reason for the Panel Beaters to drive the car despite the fact that they had to move it from the car park to the workshop to the holding bay to the workshop and back to the car park during the repairs. It is also my Insurance Agencies opinion that a Panel Beater has no duty of care to the consumer.

So here's what I need:

Someone who on letterhead will offer their opinion on how to carry out repairs to a headlight, and front grill.

Someone who on letterhead will offer their opinion on general practice including the viewing of the embossed, inside plate of the car with the vehicle specifics.

Someone who on letterhead will offer their opinion that Panel Beaters do have a duty of car to all consumers regardless of the limitations on this duty.

My intent is to offer these opinions to the ombudsman in support of my own opinions and understanding. By no means would you become embroiled in the dispute, it is unlikely that you would be contacted in the future for testimony or if by chance this went to court and you would not be contacted by my insurance agency. It is simply a statement of reference for my personal use in support of this claim. I fully expect that a "disclaimer" reference be included in the letter - that this is purely opinion and cannot be relied on in court and that it is for the stated use by the stated recipient only.

If you think you could help me with any of the above, or you would like to offer some advice or receive more specifics on the details of the damage/repairs/accident you can email me at prettygirl_25@hotmail.com or call Australia mobile number (+61) 0410 634 136. Any and all help and advice will be much appreciated.

Alternatively if you want to fix my car the damage is apparently only worth $3500 in body work! lol

And of course if you wish to quote on the vehicle with the expectation of loyalty following the outcome of this dispute, this would also be appreciated and respected.

[RIDE:42]

so you knew there was a major problem with a bang when you drove the car :confused: but you still drove it :bash: are you a woman ? or just a fool.
next you want someone to pay for a problem that they did not cause?
are you blond as well? :eek:

sorry if i sound harsh but ------------ :lol:

[clubbieboy]

Why not contact the dealer you purchased the vehicle from to see if they would put something in writing for you - or maybe at least give you the name of the paint shop they use and they may be able to do up a letter for ya? Although I gotta agree with ride to a degree - loud metallic thump = stop and get it looked at, esp if car is still under warranty. good luck ;)

[Gee]

Reads like a fact scenario from a first year Torts exam.

Spot the novus actus interviens.

[RED R8]

Take the panel beater an astra and say right now I want you to replace the headlight and grille and you cannot open the bonnet have your insurance man as a witness.

[Flirtatious]

so you knew there was a major problem with a bang when you drove the car :confused: but you still drove it :bash: are you a woman ? or just a fool.
next you want someone to pay for a problem that they did not cause?
are you blond as well? :eek:

sorry if i sound harsh but ------------ :lol:

Sorry if I realised I had to give every specific detail regarding the circumstances I wouldn't have bothered posting.

The car left the shop at 5.39 pm on the Friday afternoon, they closed the gate behind me. I drove straight home (less than 2 minutes away). I parked the car and went out for the night with my girlfriends who picked me up. My sister drove me around all weekend. Come Monday I went to get in the car only to find that the back door lock was broken and I couldn't get the door closed after I had opened it to put all my work files into the back seat. I moved my files into my Mum's car and drove to work.

I contacted the Panel Beaters who said "Let me guess - your calling about the door lock?" I said yes and they said that it wasn't on the original repair brief so they didnt' fix it. I said "but it wasn't broken before I gave you the car because I had been in and out of that door,the day before I took it to you, to clean it out". They said "Yes but it wasn't on the original brief so we didn't fix it." My insurance agency then agreed with me and told them they had to fix it.

I drove the car on Tuesday, making only one or two turns and noticing that it was strange but not picking up on the sound at that point, but I also hadn't driven it in 6 months so I put it down to that. Reasonable if you have ever driven an Astra after driving a Toyota for 6 months (the steering is very different in each).

I didn't drive it Wednesday because my Dad drove me to work. The next time I drove it was Thursday night when I was going out for the night and had no other way of getting out. That was when the accident occured. So I had only driven it twice before the accident. Once noticing the bang and the steering difficulty, the second so that I could get to where I had promised to be.

To be very specific it had to be a hard right turn, so a tight corner, a parking spot, a U-Turn etc would create the noise, but most of the "corners" I turned were multi-lane right turns at lights. It was also not audible if you had the radio on which I discovered with the help of my mechanic. However when I got the car back the radio didn't work because they HAD disconnected the battery and I had to enter the code.

It was also my reasonable expectation - which the insurance agency did agree with - that if there HAD been a problem they would have told me.

The Panel Beaters reply was that they didn't fix anything that wasn't in the original brief. They neither confirm nor deny seeing the damage. Their position is that it was my insurance agencies obligation to conduct an inspection and that they were purely contracted to complete a job not take ownership of the damage.

My position is that the Panel Beaters contributed to the accident by failing to notify me or the insurance agency that they had noted additional damage and failing to warn me that the damage existed. Therefore they ARE liable under negligence and tort law for the damage.

The problem lies not in the duty of care so much as it does on proving that they had the opportunity to view the damage and that a lay-person could distinguish what looks right or wrong.

It also relies in proof - me saying that I had to put the radio code in to get the radio to work doesn't warrant as proof. Me saying that there was a noise or that the steering felt strange doesn't warrant as proof. And me saying that the Panel Beaters told me all about the extensive work they did to the front end of the vehicle isn't proof. That is where this request stemmed from. I need to prove the things I can.

And yes I am blonde, and yes I am a woman, but I am also legal studies student and practice business law within my role at work. Not only that but I am also a very bright and astute consumer who is not about to fork out $3,500 for damages that could have been avoided, nor am I about to drop from a rating 1 to a rating 4 for the sake of their stupidity and negligence, so thank you for your very stupid and very judgemental comment Ride:42.

I have however offered to negotiate on numerous occasions, offered to contribute to the costs providing they were met dollar for dollar, payed for the mechanical damage myself to a) avoid additional costs associated with a hire car which was what my insurance agency suggested I fork out for at the beginning of the dispute and b) get the car back on the road so that the insurance agency didn't have to tow it for quotes or to be inspected by assessors etc, and I've even offered to pay the excess of the condition that I don't lose my rating but the insurance company is adamament that they are not going to help me with this situation because they have no internal means or policies to deal with negligence.

[STATIE]

thank you for your very stupid and very judgemental comment Ride:42.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
:flip3: :flip3: :flip3:

Ride42 = 0 Flirtatious = 1 :D

[Flirtatious]

I don't get it.

[Avalanche]

are u saying that the panelbeater mechanically damaged the car???? or are u saying that they should have noticed the broken engine mount??? which then caused your steering to lock up

[alto]

In brief I took my car to a Panel Beater in December 2005 for an insurance claim .....................

Solution: when December 2005 comes around, take it to a different panel beater

[Flirtatious]

I am saying they should have noticed the damage to the engine mount. If they had the bonnet up they would have seen it. I saw it. And wheh the mechanics got the car they didn't spend hours looking at it or trying to find the problem, they lifted the engine and saw it right then and there. And the insurance assessor from my insurance agency who looked at the car said "**** if the car looked like that when it left the Panel Beaters they never should have let you drive it". Problem is he said that to me on his mobile phone from the shop so there is no recording of it and because he was just an assessor he didn't have to write up a call report on their customer database so his recommendations and inspection reports were never recorded.

[Flirtatious]

Solution: when December 2005 comes around, take it to a different panel beater

Cute - clearly I meant 2004.

And to finish off what I said in the previous post - I dont' care how the damage was caused, whether it was wear and tear or as a result of their repairs the fact remains that they had a duty of care to tell me about the damage.

[seedyrom]

Panel beaters arent responsible for warranty work

EDIT: Duty of care ? .... have you been in a panel beaters ? .... jobs in and out all day ... as the guy said, he worked to a work order from the insurance agency ... a fallen engine is easier to spot than a broken engine mount.
Just cause he didnt give you a 135-point safety inspection, doesnt mean you can persue him legally. He did a headlight change. Why would he look back at the engine ?

[seldo]

And to finish off what I said in the previous post - I dont' care how the damage was caused, whether it was wear and tear or as a result of their repairs the fact remains that they had a duty of care to tell me about the damage.
Don't want to sound negative but I think the reality of the situation is that you are pushing it up hill. Very hard to prove given the time-frame and the fact that it's since been in another accident. Sorry, but right or wrong, I don't like your chances.

[Flirtatious]

My car was the only car booked that day because I had insisted it be done before Christmas.

I don't expect him to give me a 135 point saftey inspection - I expect that he tells me that the door lock is broken and that he tells me the engine is on a slant. Its not ****ing hard. Its not too much to ask. I would do it for anyone I could. And he HAS to do it because he had lien of the car. And because by law he HAS to return to me a car that is safe and driveable after having lien.

There is nothing stopping a Panel Beater from ringing the insurance agency and saying "Hey the engine is ****ed and the back door lock is broken but we dont' have time to fix it so please warn the client" Thats all that had to happen. I never expected them TO fix it without first asking regarding additional costs/time.

And as you said - the fallen engine is easier to see than the broken engine mount- so why not mention that the engine has fallen?

And he didn't just do a headlight change, he replaced the grill, fixed the massive rip down the side of my car from the accident the insurance agency paid for, he repaired all the key marks that my ex decided to do to get back at me for dumping him, removed the electric mirror on the left and replaced it with a manual one because I couldn't afford the electric one, and through out all of this, idiot, he disconnected the battery. Your practically touching the engine to do that.

And further to that - you just said yourself that there are jobs in and out all day therefore he would most likely notice that something looked extremely odd there.

[Flirtatious]

Panel beaters arent responsible for warranty work

EDIT: Duty of care ? .... have you been in a panel beaters ? .... jobs in and out all day ... as the guy said, he worked to a work order from the insurance agency ... a fallen engine is easier to spot than a broken engine mount.
Just cause he didnt give you a 135-point safety inspection, doesnt mean you can persue him legally. He did a headlight change. Why would he look back at the engine ?

What warranty work?

[Flirtatious]

Don't want to sound negative but I think the reality of the situation is that you are pushing it up hill. Very hard to prove given the time-frame and the fact that it's since been in another accident. Sorry, but right or wrong, I don't like your chances.

The accident was BECAUSE of the engine mount. That is the whole case. The accident was caused by the broken engine mount that caused the engine to lean to the left and rest against the steering and moved forward 5 inches with every acceleration. The shifting of the weight and the pushing against the steering caused the steering to lock up when I turned into a parking space.

And I have pretty much already proven my case. I am not asking you to comment on the case. I am asking someone to help me prove that the bonnet was up. That's all. That's all I need.

[STATIE]

Take in the owners manual - it will have diagrams and instructions written by the manufacturer on how to access the battery.

Still think you're screwed though.

[seldo]

The accident was BECAUSE of the engine mount. That is the whole case. The accident was caused by the broken engine mount that caused the engine to lean to the left and rest against the steering and moved forward 5 inches with every acceleration. The shifting of the weight and the pushing against the steering caused the steering to lock up when I turned into a parking space.

And I have pretty much already proven my case. I am not asking you to comment on the case. I am asking someone to help me prove that the bonnet was up. That's all. That's all I need.
Sorrryyyy! lot's o' luck

[seedyrom]

Did you sign a piece of paper when you took possession of the car ?

You know, that sign off, indemnity sheet ?
The one that states that you are satisfied with the work done and you have inspected the car ?

Guess what ... they've experienced these sorts of cases before im sure ... but you being the legal eagle wouldnt have signed anything without first reading it surely.


Sorry if im being harsh ... but trying to apportion blaim for wear and tear onto someone else is a bit low.

Good luck finding someone who will go to court for you, against this shop.

[Toddler78]

Obviously, no one is that keen to help and both from this forum and the other parties involved may it have something to do with your negitive attitude, just a guess but your comments to certain members is not out of character and just a stab in the dark is probably the same manner in which you speak to the insurer and panel beater. my opinion yes to change the head light you will have to open the bonnet that does not neccesarily mean the worker is going to notice a broken engine mount. I am not a mechanic but my dad was so I know what I am talking about I had 2 broken mounts on my car and had my head under the bonnet almost every weekend with out noticing it until changing the clutch because the engine then moved. long story short even if the bonnet was up doesn't automaticly mean damage would have been detected. I would think that if the damage was a result of the original accident than the insurance assesor would be at fault not the panel beater. They are only going to work to a squedule because they simply won't get paid for any extra work carried out.

[Avalanche]

Is a panel beater or body repairer even licenced to make a mechanical call like that. Are they qualified mechanics. Its one of those grey areas . How is a painter or panel beater qualified to pull motors out . & with todays cars they are pretty technically advanced. I can understand a mechanic that services your car having a duty of care to let u know about dangerous faults that may effect your vehicle. But a panel beater?????????? If u are saying that the engine was moving that much u must have noticed it when accelerating & decellerating. Or is it a case of i just drive from a-b & why is that oil light thingy on. This is where it comes down to taking some responsibility for your actions or in this case maybe inaction or naievty. What if you are just trying to blame the accident on the panel beater and maybe it was your driving that led to the bingle?? Just so happens the mount was worn & now u are looking for a scapegoat. Or maybe this is a test case for one of your assignments or practicals. In which case wasting peoples time. I dont think you will find anyone who would want to go to court and sit aorund wasting their day & then fight to reimbursed out of pockets. This could drive u nuts for years. Get over it move on & leave the panel beater to do his job.

[The Warden]

I had additional works done including the replacement of the driver’s side headlight and I was lead to believe the front grill also.

So you instructed this additional work of headlight and grill replacement? Presumably this was not part of the original accident damage and therefore the panel beater was working to your instructions.


it was obvious - even to me.

Game over. You, as the owner, operated an unroadworthy vehicle.


When I lifted the bonnet following the accident to check my radiator and investigate the extent of the damage from the accident, the damage to the engine was quite clear which is why I took the car straight to the mechanics

How did you take the car to your mechanic? I presume you again drove it when you were now fully aware of the damaged engine mount. If so, thanks for caring about everyone else on the road....


So I had only driven it twice before the accident. Once noticing the bang and the steering difficulty, the second so that I could get to where I had promised to be.

You're kidding right? You notice steering difficulty but continued to drive the car again and it's not your fault? But silly me, you had too drive, you'd promised to be somewhere. Fact of Life number 1: We all make promises to be somewhere / sometime / something. How can you possibly think that your "promise" removes YOUR responsibility to operate a safe vehicle? This admission makes you totally liable in my mind, regardless of the law as you see it. Fact: you knew something wasn't right before the accident occured.

[NinetySix]

agree with avalanche

a panel beater is as far from being a mechanic as a plumber is from an electrician

sure they both work on cars.... but plumbers and sparkys work on the same projects too



that said, when i had a broken engine mount (bracket) in my old laser, even looking straight at it you couldnt tell... it was only when driving it and taking your foot off the gas you heard a massive thud as the engine shifted about... if you pushed the engine by hand they would seperate and the damage was obvious but not at any other time

and at the same time, is the engine mount even visible from where one would disconnect and reconnect the battery? or is tucked down below the exhaust manifold (like mine was) where you had to stick your head into the engine bay to see it

[Vulture]

Surely SOMEONE has a duty of care to ensure that the vehicle was properly assessed as to the extent of the damage caused in the original accident and whether the vehicle was roadworthy. What about the insurance assesor? Who inspected the vehicle to determine the repairs necessary? If you've got the time and the inclination and prepared to chase after this like a bulldog, maybe something will come out of it. Someone must have assessed the damage. Surely an engineering inspection following the second prang could find out if something funny had gone on with the steering despite the bent bits.

As far as not opening the bonnet is concerned; that'd be an easy one to disprove with a video camera and some spare time.

[bricat]

If you are so bright and an astute consumer go see a lawyer. You have been given the run around by experts and now you are trying to justify how smart you are. Get some help. Or is the whole story being told??? At least you will get a few different opinions on here!!!

[JezzaB]

This is deja vu! The same thing pretty much happened on my sisters car. Accident (not her fault), engine mount stuffed and JUST about to hit onto steering column. Battle between insurance company, mechanic who fixed it 2 weeks prior and panel beaters (ombudsman involved)

Ended up getting it all fixed and when it came back the exhaust leaked and was rubbing, radiator fan hitting shround, doors not locking, running rough. All to hard, just sold the bloody thing in the end.

Goodluck,

Jez

PS No one is going to put they're name on a letter head stating the proceedures because no one will want to get involved in want most probably turn into a legal battle. This was the same situation with us. Ended up with a vauge and non commital letter from the mechanic that didn't help one bit.

[myles]

Flirtatious, from what I understand, the insurance assessor should be responsibile with directing you to take the necceassry steps to fix your car.

You're not a mechanic so he/she should have directed you to seek panel beater work and mechanical inspection/work before you received the vehicle.

I understand what you're saying. The vehicle should have been in proper working order before the vehicle was returned to you.

Regarding the panel beater, some might say a good panel beater is just that while others might say one who knows more about your car is even better. My best mate's father is a panel beater. Not only is he good at what he does, he does have a keen eye for mechanical work as well.

It all comes down to, should the panel beater have checked your vehicle? He isn't qualified so the answer leans towards no he doesn't have to. But had it noticed further damage, would it be irresponsible for him not to refer mechanical work? That leans towards yes. It all comes down to proving had he seen the problem, had he known the problem, could he identify the problem?

It would be great to think he wouldn't have to notice an engine mount to know something was wrong with your car structurally. I don't know the panel beating code of conduct (or if there is one), but is there something else your mechanic could point out, a tell tale sign that something was seriously wrong that would be more credible (something shifted, bent that would indicate structural damage to someone even slightly familiar with repair work)?

Not that this will help your cause, but if the panel beater claims the bonnet wasn't lifted he'd be lying through his coin slot. As someone else mentioned, take a headlight to him with a witness and ask him to fit it without lifting the bonnet. Once again, even if you prove he is lying, you can't prove he had the knowledge, or that he saw the problem. You can prove though, he is lying to the customer. :)

Anyway, I understand your frustration. It's great when someone goes that extra mile, or that extra step to ensure everything is right. I remember taking some music equipment to be repaired (like a car, suffered structural damage from some ****ing bozo) and the guitar repairer while in the process of repairing, called another guitar tech and queried him on something he was looking at. Once again, they were able to identify something else that would have needed to be repaired first before the initial repairs were completed.

The panel beater didn't have to go any further, but it would have been fortunate and great if he did.

I think it comes down to your insurance company. You can prove the panel beater is lying on the bonnet issue, but not on the basis he had knowledge for structural work (unless you go further with what code of ethics they aspire to and see if he was out of line). Rather, I would turn your attention to your insurance company. I think they failed you. They failed to ensure the right steps were carried out to inspect and repair your vehicle in full working order.

[VFast]

Come on guys go easy on the poor girl...

Obviously the panel beater is taking the piss with the bonnet thing because you are a female. I recommend taking a large member of the opposite sex with you to make sure they refrain from this stupid behaviour :)

However I beleive it would be unfair for the panel beater to held responsible for not identifying the broken engine mount. Clearly this is not in their field of expertise.

The onus I beleive should sit with the initial assessor who identified the areas of repair on the vehicle. If they didn't pick it up then stiff shit, they should be held accountable for their work and assessment of the vehicles condition.

You will have to get some help with proving the 2nd accident was a result of the broken engine mount. I am confident that your states motoring body should be more than helpful in this area and with enough clout and spine to back you if the evidence is there.

Good luck with it all, as I am sure you will need it as these cases are never straightforward :(

[Flirtatious]

Did you sign a piece of paper when you took possession of the car ?

You know, that sign off, indemnity sheet ?
The one that states that you are satisfied with the work done and you have inspected the car ?

Guess what ... they've experienced these sorts of cases before im sure ... but you being the legal eagle wouldnt have signed anything without first reading it surely.


Sorry if im being harsh ... but trying to apportion blaim for wear and tear onto someone else is a bit low.

Good luck finding someone who will go to court for you, against this shop.

Its not so much that your being harsh but your being a bit silly. Clearly if I had signed anything there wouldn't be a case now would there? But then again who am I to know that the paint work will flake off or that the back door will fly off when I take off down the road - as stated I am just a woman for gods sake! I didn't sign anything. I just paid my money as required. And relied on the "guaruntee" offered by both the Panel Beaters and my insurance agency in the event that something unobvious showed up. I will know in the future to bring a mechanic, a qualified panel beater, an independant assessor, a staff member from my insurance agency, a judge, a priest, a pharmacist, a cop, a video camera and my Dad with me next time I pick my car up from a Panel Beater.

Toddler - I am in no way being negative so much as I am being realistic. A lot of people work out that I am a woman or that I am young, or that I am driving an Astra and they don't give me the time of day. As I previously stated I didn't really feel the need to provide every piece of evidence I have in my possession to people on a nameless, faceless board. Rather, I was trying to find someone in Victoria, who had a heart, had good technical knowlege and was willing to help someone who is desperate need of help.

I appreciate that your Dad was a mechanic and that you too have had engine mount problems, but in a car as tiny as mine, it WAS noticeable that the engine was on a slant. There was no denying that. I never expected them to diagnose a broken engine mount - I did expect them to mention that the engine was on a slant though.

Avalanche - I didn't expect them to repair either (as previously stated) just to say - "Hey the engine is on a definate slant and there is something going on there. You need to get that checked." But furthermore, the insurance agency claims that they never check mechanics, nor internal infrastructure and that is in fact the responsibility of the Panel Beaters upon quotation and repair to point out any mechanical issues. The Panel Beaters do undertake a brief inspection, and they do they inspection of the structural damage on the inside of the bonnet checking the sides for signs of weakening or fracturing. I've been there when they've done it! Again this is not about them repairing it - but there is no reason why they wouldn't have seen it.

The Warden - you make some valid points however you've taken them out of context. First, the additional work was instructed by me, yes. And again this was never in dispute with my insurance agency. Their position was initially that I take out a new claim and put the Panel Beaters as the responsible party - that was their instruction to me. However when I did take out that claim they then said that they had no way of holding a company responsible and I hadn't proved it was negligence and referred me to the Ombudsman. Its quite complicated actually because they've never been in this position before.

In regards to the noticeability of the problem as you quoted - I did, I thought, quite clearly state that I opened the bonnet after the subsequent accident and saw the damage. Not before.

In regards to the driving of the vehicle. I had only driven it once before the accident. There was a strange feeling that wasn't really identifiable at the time. And again this wasn't about whether I heard the noise then, or identified it, the legal argument is about why a car was returned to me with the engine in quite obvious disrepair.

In regards to taking it the mechanic it was driven - via back streets admittedly - but only on instruction from the mechanic and only after peak hour to avoid collisions and delay of other workers if I was to need to stop the vehicle. I was, luckily, in the position where the mechanics is a 1 minute drive from my mothers house, where the car was parked, to the mechanics.

Ninety-Six, I understand what your saying but in my car it was OBVIOUS. The engine was on a slant. I am merely saying that by disconnecting the battery they were coming in direct site of the damage, they had their hands ON the engine, and that contrary to my insurance agencies opinion, it is necessary to raise the bonnet during repairs. Not only to disconnect the battery but to check the manufacturers plate also!

Vulture - I do have the time and inclination. And I am putting my best effort into this dispute. I will win. I am determined to. And I have already proven duty of care now its done to the evidence that they would have spotted the damage and therefore didn't exercise that duty of care.

Bricat - fortunately, and unfortunately the legal system works in such a way that mediation and arbitration is viewed as an important step in the legal process and therefore, despite having contacted a legal representative, I must go through the ombudsman process first before I can take it to court or offical legal intervention. I have already secured the secured the support of a solicitor known for his wins against this insurance company, however, and if I have no success with the ombudsman I have every intention of continuing with his services.

Myles thanks for the feedback and support. I do believe that the "video-ing" or witnessing of the change of a headlight is a great idea and will definately look into that. I honestly believe, with the support of my mechanics, the original assessor who looked at my car post accident 2 (who is yet to make a statement through the insurance agency to the Ombudsman, and an independant panel beater I have all I need to successfully win this case. One of the questions I have posed in my last two communications is whether it was lawful for my calls to be directed to the service centre where there are no records of communication, and whether it was against their policy to refuse to investigate this matter (which they did). There are many things that they say that they do that they didn't do and can't prove they did in this matter which is looking very unfavourable for them.

[bricat]

Just a point as far as your calls are concerned. I just got off the phone to the Bank and they said my call was being monitored for quality control?????B.....sh.t They have a record of anyone who jacks them up. So you need to act now to subpoena there tapes where your calls were recorded. Every Big company seems to do this. Don't wait until they are wiped (3months?)rs. Also if you called from mobile or home phone you have a record of time and duration of call and to which number. They cannot prove what you said but helps support your evidence of calling Cheers

[Flirtatious]

Just a point as far as your calls are concerned. I just got off the phone to the Bank and they said my call was being monitored for quality control?????B.....sh.t They have a record of anyone who jacks them up. So you need to act now to subpoena there tapes where your calls were recorded. Every Big company seems to do this. Don't wait until they are wiped (3months?)rs. Also if you called from mobile or home phone you have a record of time and duration of call and to which number. They cannot prove what you said but helps support your evidence of calling Cheers

Good advice - 2 problems. There was never ANY tapes made of the calls because whilst the fact that I called the customer service was lodged, I was directly referred and diverted to a service centre where calls aren't recorded. So all the evidence occured during those unrecorded calls.

In terms of the records - I called from a previous workplace where they didn't get itemised listings and didn't think to request them before I left that workplace, and any calls I recieved on my mobile were from Private Numbers - I already checked.

As for calls they made - there were only 2 from the rep at the Service Centre and he used his mobile but called me at my work place. And further to that they are refusing to submit any material from him.