Shift or no? 4 the slushies

[SS_Fury]

Just curious, when my fellow slushies out there are at the drags, do you manually go through your gears or leave it in D. Just wondering which would make for quicker times, all other things being equal. I read a while ago you should leave it in D, but when is it when you start off at 1 and go through em manually it just seems faster? :confused:

[NickS]

Leave it in D. You can't shift faster than the computer (especially if it's been tuned) and you can actually do more damage to the transmission shifting manually.

If you want to shift manually there is an easy way to do it ... buy a manual :stick:

[SS_Fury]

you can do damage shifting manually? :confused:

[NickS]

you can do damage shifting manually? :confused:
So I have been told, but only when giving it heaps ... i.e. 1/4 mile.

Maybe someone can give us a bit more info. on what can actually happen, but I have definately been told this on more than one occasion.

[SSBarney]

When shifting manually i couldnt get anywhere near the times i get leaving it to the computer. The computer manages to get as close to the rev limiter without hitting it, whereas i was hitting the rev limiter sometimes.

Phonsy of GM, also advised me to take off in 3, not D, for faster repsonse, does seem to work.

[STATIE]

Phonsy of GM, also advised me to take off in 3, not D

Exactly :)

Anything else and you'll go slower. :cool:

[SS_Fury]

note to self....dont hammer the box!

[spaceman347]

Also never back off with the auto trans in a lower gear and use "compression" to slow the car down, burns out auto's quicker than you can say "Shit where's my credit card"

[SS_Fury]

will have to try the take off in 3rd. yeah i dont back off the auto coz it tends to hop a bit too and is pretty sensitive to the accellerator...atleast mine is

[MPRSV8]

note to self....dont hammer the box!
Yes i would not hammer the Box! I lost 2nd gear in my auto VX R8 Clubby, and it didnt go down too well with Holden Service (it was still under warranty at the time). And ever since the first box went, it was never the same again.

If you are gonna give the box a hard time, get it shift kitted... or buy a manual like i did.

[OLS108]

Get a Heavy Duty Trans cooler for the auto if you want it to live life a little longer ;)

[vh-holden]

or with the old trimatic, take off in 2nd

[markone2]

Phonsy of GM, also advised me to take off in 3, not D, for faster repsonse, does seem to work.



Phonsy is 100% correct......*3* is the correct selection for the strip, from burnout pad to the end of the traps ....try to manual shift and your times will suffer.....

[VQ304]

I've manually shifted mine once, and won't be trying it again. I stopped the car, put it in 1st, took off, but then forgot to move it to 2nd. Took me a second to realise why it was stuck in 1st :bash:

I don't think I'd make a very good manual driver ;)

[SLEEPERVX]

I've got an un edited A4 with stock diff gears and I shaved up to 0.5sec off my 1/4 mile time by launching in 2nd and manually changing to 3rd at approx 5500. There is a bit of a delay in the shift, so it shifts just before the limiter. If I leave it in D or 3 and just keep it flat, it shifts to 3rd at approx 5300. The 1st to 2nd change is fine, just the 2nd to 3rd that I manually need to hold for that split second longer.

Could just be my Auto, but when i eventually get an edit done and get the shift points corrected, I'll be leaving it in 3rd all the way.

[SS_Fury]

very interesting....i see your running high 13's too, what mods do you have?

[highlander_69r]

i leave mine in 3rd and from memory the only issues i had in stock form was it holdin 2nd too long on the odd occaision

[OLS108]

i leave mine in 3rd and from memory the only issues i had in stock form was it holdin 2nd too long on the odd occaision
yeah i had the same Drama except wine would hot change, a qucik trip to see Mark at Power Torque fixed that right up ;)

[Ralph1]

So when u take off in 3rd, do you need to shift to D during the race?

[Oztrack Tuning]

Mine races in D or 3. Makes no difference.

Manually shifting it is no good - it slow shift times down and i cant pick the sound. It just goes 7000 without any indication and hits rev limitter. Much better to let the computer do the shifting.

I leave it in D usually so it doesnt rev the crap out of itself in 3rd when i back off.

[Plan B]

Isn't "D" for Drag? lol what a funny thread.... :)

[markone2]

So when u take off in 3rd, do you need to shift to D during the race?


At aprox 241kph in 3rd on stock 3.07 diff gears before you hit the limiter...nope ;)

[Ralph1]

At aprox 241kph in 3rd on stock 3.07 diff gears before you hit the limiter...nope ;)
So if I'm hitting 160 ish no need then.

[Ralph1]

At aprox 241kph in 3rd on stock 3.07 diff gears before you hit the limiter...nope ;)
So if I'm hitting 160 ish no need then. I might try it this weekend.

[andrewdisco]

Leave it in D. You can't shift faster than the computer (especially if it's been tuned) and you can actually do more damage to the transmission shifting manually.

If you want to shift manually there is an easy way to do it ... buy a manual :stick:

I don't mean to sidetrack the thread... but I really hate my auto... it's a vy clubsport. Now the thing is - I drove a Edited VY SS Auto before I bought the clubby and I absolutely loved it... mine seems to have much more brutal changes... seems to take alot longer to complete the change.. and does funny things with the rev's inbetween.. (like it revs out then gives you a massive shunt).

Does an edit help with this or is it only to change the shift points (when you have the auto recalibrated as part of the edit). ? or do I have to get the auto worked on ?

It really confuses me... as the VY SS had more power at the wheels, but the changes are much smoother and faster. His gearing is meant to be 3.7 and mine 3.9... but they both have the same RPM at 100km/h (2250ish).

[MRVZSS]

I have noticed (and have tried and tested this time and time again), when using the gears from 1 through to 4 (PWR On), the engine wont rev passed the red line. But if you leave the baby D, the 1st to 2nd (PWR On) shift will rev all the way to 6000 maybe 6200 in the cold. But no matter what ive tried i can't get it to shift higher using the gears. must be a safety factor. :( so stick with D for dadaway

[chops]

Does an edit help with this or is it only to change the shift points (when you have the auto recalibrated as part of the edit). ? or do I have to get the auto worked on ?

Tuning your PCM can change shift point, shift time and shift firmness.
EASILY the best mod possible on an auto car - before and after is like chalk and cheese.

[SS--SS]

I seem to shift from drive to 3rd all the time ..especially when slowing down to a bend or lights..I think I just like the noise it makes :cool:

[NickS]

Tuning your PCM can change shift point, shift time and shift firmness.
EASILY the best mod possible on an auto car - before and after is like chalk and cheese.
chops is spot on, however you will find that faster changes are actually more brutal / noticeable ... around town anyway, when getting stuck into it I don't even notice it :D

[SLEEPERVX]

very interesting....i see your running high 13's too, what mods do you have?

Not much, MCAI with 2nd hole mod, Pacemaker Try Y's, Twin 2.5in Redback Cat back, VY Clubsport MAF pipe.

[Tonner]

Yes i would not hammer the Box! I lost 2nd gear in my auto VX R8 Clubby, and it didnt go down too well with Holden Service (it was still under warranty at the time). And ever since the first box went, it was never the same again.

If you are gonna give the box a hard time, get it shift kitted... or buy a manual like i did.
I am led to believe this losing 2nd gear was an electrical component fault of around that era, could happen to anyone, and holden shouldn't look so surprised when you come to them looking for a new tranny imo, its just how they are trained lol, "WHY SIR WE HAVE NOT HEARD OF THAT HAPPENING
BEFORE" :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[markone2]

Yes i would not hammer the Box! I lost 2nd gear in my auto VX R8 Clubby, and it didnt go down too well with Holden Service (it was still under warranty at the time). And ever since the first box went, it was never the same again.

If you are gonna give the box a hard time, get it shift kitted... or buy a manual like i did.


Yep......mine went to lunch on 2nd gear also.....after 509 hard hits down Willowbanks fine straight. ;) ..stock A4 pushing a highstall...surprisingly it still behaved as per normal on road...it was only evident over the 1/4 mile where the slip in second was costing 1/10th at the 330ft mark....Problem now solved
with another new stock A4 box.but this time shift kitted by Craigs Automatics.

Ot...Mr Tonner.please clear your pm box...MH

[spaceman347]

So if I'm hitting 160 ish no need then. I might try it this weekend.
Mine only changes from 2 to 3 at about 160 (3.07 diff), so you certainly should not be anywhere near the top of 3rd gear.

[HSV_1412]

Mine only changes from 2 to 3 at about 160 (3.07 diff), so you certainly should not be anywhere near the top of 3rd gear.
ditto. mine also changes at 160 into 3rd... so for the track, you are nowhere near the end of ya legs.. leave it in 3 :) :p

[SS_Fury]

Not much, MCAI with 2nd hole mod, Pacemaker Try Y's, Twin 2.5in Redback Cat back, VY Clubsport MAF pipe.

i got the genie tri-y's, sv8 zorst (it had the zorst on their when i bought the car) and had the cats opened up and will eventually do the 2 hole mod when i get an edit....is the maf pipe worth it? they arent too expensive, but are they a worthwhile mod?

[PLAYTM]

When u recieve the edit does the shifts firm up and shift quick at the moment im sick of the auto shifting and takin its time to shift into gear.... how noticable is the difference.

[NickS]

When u recieve the edit does the shifts firm up and shift quick at the moment im sick of the auto shifting and takin its time to shift into gear.... how noticable is the difference.
Very noticeable, especially in power mode :eek:

[SLEEPERVX]

i got the genie tri-y's, sv8 zorst (it had the zorst on their when i bought the car) and had the cats opened up and will eventually do the 2 hole mod when i get an edit....is the maf pipe worth it? they arent too expensive, but are they a worthwhile mod?

Pre-Edit, a little, not really for outright power, more for throttle response, as you still have a MAF restricting things. In my case I noticed a difference in conjunction with the MCAI and 2 hole mod.

Post mafless edit, you'll definitely need a GTS style maf pipe to get the full benefit.

[pmpddyanlgrkn]

The only difference between D4 and D3 is a 2 clutch component ,this clutch is called a over run clutch , lt is only applyed in D3 to take load off the over run sprag when engine braking ...
Big hp cars - say 600rwhp+ should be dragged in D3 so the over run clutch support`s the load on the sprag ..
The sprag will break if over loaded

[spaceman347]

Very noticeable, especially in power mode :eek:
indeed :D

[Jphdg]

What about if you are running 3.73's?

There should be plenty legs left in 3rd over the line?

I was recommended when I got my tranny rebuilt and a hi stall put in, to run it down the strip in 3rd but yet to give it a go so dunno what it will be like.

Anyone else running a tricked auto, 3500 stall, 3.73's and running the quater in 3rd with this setup compared to running D?

I have noticed by SOP feel, it seems more responsive in 3rd and stronger shifts driving around normally even though you only notice slight RPM drop on shifts with the tricked auto + stall, so I think I am going to take the advice and run it in 3rd when i EVER get down to the strip to see how she goes.

I am not keen on hitting overdrive and have the converter slipping into lock under full load. It does that under normal driving above 80kph resulting in a very noticable drop in rpm (feels like a fith gear). If it does not lock under high engine rpm and loads I don't know yet, but I know it does on half throttle so rather not take that risk on maximum torque output until I am sure of what is going to happen.

I am still new to high stalls etc (but loving it), so someone may be able to enlighten me in regards to the above also.

[Oztrack Tuning]

So is there a good technical reason to race in 3 rather than D.
Keen to know - because if its quicker or better i'll do it.

Just thought having it change to 4th on backoff was gentler on the engine.

[JezzaB]

I've always found 3rd and pwr to pull the hardest. Pretty sure someone did a test and 3rd had a different flow patteren though the box

[Wonky]

Isn't "D" for Drag? lol what a funny thread.... :)
......... and "R" for Race! :D

[Jphdg]

I've always found 3rd and pwr to pull the hardest. Pretty sure someone did a test and 3rd had a different flow patteren though the box

I had heard or read this as well somewhere, but unsure what the exact differences are.

Jezzab - have you tried both D and 3 down the strip?
If so, were there any differences in your 60f or ET?

[markone2]

So is there a good technical reason to race in 3 rather than D.
Keen to know - because if its quicker or better i'll do it.

Just thought having it change to 4th on backoff was gentler on the engine.


If you have a gander at a couple of those videos of the car you'll see I slip into *D* after passing the traps....well after the traps..been caught out before by that one before :)
A couple of times I have inadvertently run the 1/4 while in Drive...this has resulted in a slower ET...not by much, but the time slips will show the difference...It must be said however that the car is set up to cross the line at peak revs in 3rd.....running in drive results in short shifting at around 6500rpm, although the time difference between *3* and *D* appears more marked at the 330ft

[SV8VY]

I have the standard box (with edit) and 3.9 diff ratio and get the quickest time in 3 rd.It revs to about 5800-5900 when I cross the line.
Tried in D and got 3 tenths slower :(
Have an oil cooler also with sythetic fluid.

[HSVREDSLED]

With a wealth of experience gained by my three (3) career runs down the quarter mile, leaving it in 3 as opposed to D dropped my time by 2/10ths of a second.

[Jphdg]

hmm interesting results, sounds like a few runs and trying both 3 and D.

Sounds like each car is not the same when it comes to which gear to select then and what works for one, may not for another. Just makes things more interesting. ;)

[STATIE]

The reasons I was given by two of the better Auto builders in Vic - Dave from RVO who built the box in my Maloo & Hugo from Hugo's Race Glides who worked on the Stato's A4, were not to do with better times on the 1/4 but rather to do with helping a 4 speed auto live longer ie when you are thrashing your car put in in 3 - even if you are on a roll to manually pull it to 3rd before giving it a bootfull and automatically downshifting further.

Although it is obviously going to help your times on the 1/4 by holding it in 3rd rather than letting it shift to 4th (depending on your shift points/diff ratio/terminal speed etc)

[Ralph1]

I will be visiting the strip this coming weekend, I will be leaving it in 3 to see if there is a difference.

[NefariousVX]

slightly o/t here but ive noticed when i lock my A4 in first and boot it, it will automatically change into 2nd, but when i do the same in 2nd it just bounces off the limiter, and doesnt change into 3rd. Can anyone explain why this is so?

[SV8VY]

slightly o/t here but ive noticed when i lock my A4 in first and boot it, it will automatically change into 2nd, but when i do the same in 2nd it just bounces off the limiter, and doesnt change into 3rd. Can anyone explain why this is so?It wont change in to 3rd from second but if in 1st it will change in to second to stop the box from blowing up.
It wont downshift to first from second unless you are doing a low speed but I wouldn't recommend anyway as you will lock it up.
With a good edit the box will do all the work quicker than you can manually.
I have been to the circuit with mine and I get a better lap time just leaving it in D even if it decides to downchange 2 gears at a time...as they say its automagic ;)

[JRGRANGE]

Does an edit help with this or is it only to change the shift points (when you have the auto recalibrated as part of the edit). ? or do I have to get the auto worked on ?

An edit on any HSV auto is the best thing that you could ever do.

The shifting of these autos are absolutely crap, they hold onto gears and then drop into top gear and miss a couple of changes. I have driven all different commodores/hsv's and find the standard auto programming to better by fare.

If i change my grange manually it wont change quick enough and desides to play rev limiter disco at 7000, put it in 3rd and you cant go wrong!!

[PLAYTM]

The other day i had the car in 3rd (its a 03 vy ss) and mashed the go pedal.. it started to bounce off the rev limiter and it seemed like it didnt want to change gears? Dont know what happened?

[Jphdg]

slightly o/t here but ive noticed when i lock my A4 in first and boot it, it will automatically change into 2nd, but when i do the same in 2nd it just bounces off the limiter, and doesnt change into 3rd. Can anyone explain why this is so?

I heard this is a dangerous practice. the A4's can overheat in no time with high power 1st gear jobs. Cannot remember what component overheats in first gear, but yeah was highly recommended not to do it at all. Some people do this while warming their tires at the srip, but doing it in 3rd does the same job without heating and stressing the box as much apparently.

JRGRANGE - The stock auto can be re-programmed with edit to change the shift points as well as the line pressures to provide harder and more sporty shifting, however strengthening is a good idea if you are going to give it a bootful often and got decent power, a good quality shift kit and some strengthening gives more peace of mind for handling the extra abuse along with a decent cooler to keep the temps down.

I have done the above to mine after fitting the cam. Prior to the cam, I managed to blow a stock but edited auto box in style just casually reversing out of my driveway. A family member ran out of the house, thinking I had taken the side of my car out on the metal carport pole with the noise it made.

At this time the engine output was around 225rwkws only which only occationally got the full boot and I never manually changed the auto gears while driving.

If you can afford to strengthen the auto, worth while spending the money in my opinion even if you just have an edited car with usual bolt ons.

[Ralph1]

Well I just got back from the strip and did 7 runs leaving it in 3rd, as a whole had some good runs :D and some runs I won't mention here. :mad: ...but I personally think it did help at least 2 tenths overall.

cheers

Ralph