How come SBR didn't know?

[pah]

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but . . .

How come everybody else knew the balaclava rules had changed and were wearing them but none of the SBR drivers knew to put them on?





PAH

[shane W Z]

Ok you are a conspiracy theorist ...........in that case so am I as i too are bamboozled how ambrose gets away with everything and blames everyone else when he stuffs up, oh yeah thats right he doesn't stuff up everyone else does what is it with ford and having absolute morons as "Drivers" having said that i met craig lowndes once terrific guy so i guess some ford guys are decent one or two perhaps.

[seldo]

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but . . .

How come everybody else knew the balaclava rules had changed and were wearing them but none of the SBR drivers knew to put them on?

PAH
Nothing has changed at all. Balaclavas have been compulsory for roughly 40 years. It's just that they are bloody hot and uncomfortable and Ambrose/Luff thought they could get away without one. Did you notice that Ross Stone didn't even argue about it? He knew they were caught red-handed.

[Aus8]

Ok you are a conspiracy theorist ...........in that case so am I as i too are bamboozled how ambrose gets away with everything and blames everyone else when he stuffs up, oh yeah thats right he doesn't stuff up everyone else does what is it with ford and having absolute morons as "Drivers" having said that i met craig lowndes once terrific guy so i guess some ford guys are decent one or two perhaps.

I think we (Holden) have just as many if not more moron drivers. *Cough* Paul
Morris, Paul Dumbrell *cough* Miust be something to do with the name Paul?

Even as a one eyed Holden supporter I wouldnt say Ambrose gets away with anything he does. He has had a crap load of penalties this year and his 2nd position in the championship shows there is no substitute for a fast car. Saying that though I hope Rusty wins it this year. The guys got one of the awesome personalities in the sport and ive been following him from the Larry Days.

Cheers


Aus8

[ACT_Cross8]

My issue is, if he hasn't been wearing one all year, why did they only decide to ping him for it at Bathurst? I reckon someone from Holden had words to race control and dobbed him in because they didn't want to be beaten by a F*rd. There's a conspiracy theory for you :stick: :hide:...

[plonkerchops]

My issue is, if he hasn't been wearing one all year, why did they only decide to ping him for it at Bathurst? I reckon someone from Holden had words to race control and dobbed him in because they didn't want to be beaten by a F*rd. There's a conspiracy theory for you :stick: :hide:...

from what they were saying on the day Bathurst was/is an internationally sanctioned event( correct wording? ) and compulsory wearing of the balaclava is part of the rules...apparently ...or something there about :confused:

[Aus8]

My issue is, if he hasn't been wearing one all year, why did they only decide to ping him for it at Bathurst? I reckon someone from Holden had words to race control and dobbed him in because they didn't want to be beaten by a F*rd. There's a conspiracy theory for you :stick: :hide:...
Its not like Ambrose/SBR are the only ones not to wear them. Did anyone read the first autoaction after Bathurst??

Skaife admitted that due to the heat, he was one of many drivers that raced in Darwin and Shanghai without the compulsory FIA full length underwear beneath his race suit that was mandated at the beginning of the season.

Hardly a big deal I think. They (SBR) were the unlucky ones and got caught out this time and did the time.

Cheers

Aus8

[seldo]

My issue is, if he hasn't been wearing one all year, why did they only decide to ping him for it at Bathurst? I reckon someone from Holden had words to race control and dobbed him in because they didn't want to be beaten by a F*rd. There's a conspiracy theory for you :stick: :hide:...
Conspiracy, my :booty: What a load of crap! Just so you understand how it all works, the system goes like this. Firstly, the requirement for the driver to wear fireproof socks, boots, long underwear, gloves, balaclava and helmet has been in force for 40 years. It is nothing new. There are roaming observers who are judges-of-fact who wander up and down pit-lane and everytime they see a team getting ready for a pit-stop, they go and stand by to observe the stop mainly to ensure that they don't have too many people working on the car and that there are no breaches of other safety regs such as fuel spillage, air-hoses getting tangled with the car, wheels rolling into other pits or the through-lane etc. When the observer notes a transgression, it is his job to report that to the stewards (not strictly correct nomenclature, but it will be more easily understood) who then act as they see fit. The Stone Bros build very very good race cars that I believe are built to comply within a micron of the rules. They have secured generous sponsorship which enables them to buy the best gear, best engineers, best fabricators, best staff, and best drivers. And then Ambrose, despite his unarguable skill behind the tiller, thinks that the rules don't apply to him, and brings the whole team's efforts down with him. Did you notice that there wasn't even a whimper from Ross Stone when the balaclave thing came-up, because he knew what the rules stated, and he knew they were caught red-handed. I bet he had a word to say to Ambrose out the back later though...
Oh...as for the bit about him not wearing it all year..he's just lucky they didn't ping for that too because the rules allow for retrospective penalties, so his big mouth could easily have cost him another 5 minutes or-so, had the stewards decided to be hard on him...Just because he'd be breaking the rules for the rest of the year means zip as far as legality goes. He just hadn't been caught before.. It's like saying I've been using a stroker all year and now you are going to ping me for it..

[Aus8]

Conspiracy, my :booty: What a load of crap! Just so you understand how it all works, the system goes like this. Firstly, the requirement for the driver to wear fireproof socks, boots, long underwear, gloves, balaclava and helmet has been in force for 40 years. It is nothing new. There are roaming observers who are judges-of-fact who wander up and down pit-lane and everytime they see a team getting ready for a pit-stop, they go and stand by to observe the stop mainly to ensure that they don't have too many people working on the car and that there are no breaches of other safety regs such as fuel spillage, air-hoses getting tangled with the car, wheels rolling into other pits or the through-lane etc. When the observer notes a transgression, it is his job to report that to the stewards (not strictly correct nomenclature, but it will be more easily understood) who then act as they see fit. The Stone Bros build very very good race cars that I believe are built to comply within a micron of the rules. They have secured generous sponsorship which enables them to buy the best gear, best engineers, best fabricators, best staff, and best drivers. And then Ambrose, despite his unarguable skill behind the tiller, thinks that the rules don't apply to him, and brings the whole team's efforts down with him. Did you notice that there wasn't even a whimper from Ross Stone when the balaclave thing came-up, because he knew what the rules stated, and he knew they were caught red-handed. I bet he had a word to say to Ambrose out the back later though...
Oh...as for the bit about him not wearing it all year..he's just lucky they didn't ping for that too because the rules allow for retrospective penalties, so his big mouth could easily have cost him another 5 minutes or-so, had the stewards decided to be hard on him...Just because he'd be breaking the rules for the rest of the year means zip as far as legality goes. He just hadn't been caught before.. It's like saying I've been using a stroker all year and now you are going to ping me for it..


Mate, were you watching the same race? As mentioned above it wasnt just Ambrose that got caught! You seem to blaming it all on him. Ingall and Luff got caught aswell. The whole SBR team got caught. Also they are not the only team not to wear mandatory safety items as per Mark Skaifes Comments in Auto Action about him not wearing certain required fire safety suits in Darwin and Shanghai races himself.

Cheers

Aus8

[seldo]

Mate, were you watching the same race? As mentioned above it wasnt just Ambrose that got caught! You seem to blaming it all on him. Ingall and Luff got caught aswell. The whole SBR team got caught. Also they are not the only team not to wear mandatory safety items as per Mark Skaifes Comments in Auto Action about him not wearing certain required fire safety suits in Darwin and Shanghai races himself.

Cheers

Aus8
For simplicity's sake I only mentioned Ambrose since he's one that everyone seems upset about, but yes, you are quite correct that it affected the other drivers in the team as well. Also, I forgot to mention that when the car is scrutineered before it is allowed to practise, if the driver is not actually present at scrutineering and fully kitted out so they can see his gear, they have to present suit, helmet, balaclava, gloves etc for inspection. So they can hardly claim they thought they didn't need to wear them...

[ratter]

Maybe that's why the SBR cars have been some of the fastest cars,




they're lighter due to the drivers not wearing fireproof undergarments

:lol:

[HRT Stroker]

Alright, first - everyone get a grip and mellow!!!

Second, the story goes that after an off the books meeting with CAMS at the Adelaide 500 a couple of years back the drivers were complaining about heat exhaustion etc and asked if the Balaclava's could be "lost"

CAMS begrudgingly agreed to turn a blind eye to things for NON FIA (international rules) events, ie normal rounds of the championship apparently.

However Bathurst is an international event with overseas drivers etc........so obviously one of the marshalls/stewards decided to adhere 100% to the LAW!!

AFAIC they are a safety item designed to stop the drivers neck and face being burned in a crash - hot or not only a moron wouldn't wear them if thats is what the rules require.

Keep this debate non personal please......

Cheers


HRT Stroker

[moose]

they are a safety item designed to stop the drivers neck and face being burned in a crash - hot or not only a moron wouldn't wear them if thats is what the rules require.




Good to see somebody gets it! It's like telling someone to wear a bike helmet. Trying to protect the head thats not smart enough to protect itself. ;)

[skully]

The only issue I see is that if it was common knowledge that many drivers have not been wearing the balaclavas over the course of the season, and if CAMS intended from the start to enforce this rule at Bathurst, then this should have been made clear to all teams and drivers at the start of practice rather than halfway through the race. Or perhaps they did and some chose to ignore it?

I'm not trying to excuse it and have little sympathy for those caught out, but I suspect this is one of those things that could have been avoided with a little forethought.

[Black_Utester]

My issue is, if he hasn't been wearing one all year, why did they only decide to ping him for it at Bathurst? I reckon someone from Holden had words to race control and dobbed him in because they didn't want to be beaten by a F*rd. There's a conspiracy theory for you :stick: :hide:...


it was actually a fellow blue oval team that dobbed them in .... :bash:

[Brendan]

Can't say I've seen any of the top drivers not wearing a balaclava before, even Ambrose seemed to wear it.

The "gentlemens agreement" was about the full length underwear, not balaclavas.

Every interview I've seen with Ambrose, Scaife, Murphy, etc after they get out of the car they pull the balaclava off, the SBR guys took a punt and didn't get away with it.

[LSX-438]

This smells for so many reasons. Conspiracy - perhaps. If not, then the gatekeeps are incompetent / have not been doing their job properly by detecting such gross disregard for so called safety aspects for so long. Take your pick. Either way, the gatekeeps have more the answer for IMO, if they are truely motivated by everyones safety that is..

[HQV8]

it was actually a fellow blue oval team that dobbed them in .... :bash:


That's what i heard as well, apparently it was FPR! ;)

[seldo]

The only issue I see is that if it was common knowledge that many drivers have not been wearing the balaclavas over the course of the season, and if CAMS intended from the start to enforce this rule at Bathurst, then this should have been made clear to all teams and drivers at the start of practice rather than halfway through the race. Or perhaps they did and some chose to ignore it?

I'm not trying to excuse it and have little sympathy for those caught out, but I suspect this is one of those things that could have been avoided with a little forethought.
I understand that they were warned that it would be enforced....
And those choosing not to wear them enjoy a distinct advantage because of the extremes of heat and exertion. A driver I know well, weighed himself on the morning of the race, during the course of the day consumed 6 litres of Gatorade, changed 3 complete outfits during the course of the day as they were all wringing wet with perspiration, and at the end of the day had lost 4.5kgs! So don't try and tell me that there's no advantage in running cooler without one....

[HRT Stroker]

I wondered if as the event was FIA sanctioned, do they have to have stewards etc from overseas also?? If so perhaps it was an international steward who pulled the plug, unaware of the gentlemans agreement??

Perhaps someone with a bit more nouse on this subject can fill us in???

[HRT Stroker]

......So don't try and tell me that there's no advantage in running cooler without one....

No arguement there!!!! :D ........until the driver has a blowout at 260 klicks down Conrod :eek: , barrel rolls the thing into a roll of scrap, has trouble getting out while the things turning into a small bonfire:flamin: :flamin:

........and thinks to himself .........

"fark I'm glad I wore all my fire..... :stupid:

OH SHIT!!!!" :doh: :cussing:

[chris]

I wondered if as the event was FIA sanctioned, do they have to have stewards etc from overseas also?? If so perhaps it was an international steward who pulled the plug, unaware of the gentlemans agreement??

Perhaps someone with a bit more nouse on this subject can fill us in???

Russell ingall yesterday on rpm seemed quite certain that they were dobbed in by another team.
I think v8 supercar's will be better off without ambrose,i hope the yank's ripp it up him. :box:

[ACT_Cross8]

I understand that they were warned that it would be enforced....


Then he is an idiot for not wearing it, regardless of how it transpired that he got caught.

PS. I was taking the pi$$, seldo :rolleyes:

[seldo]

I wondered if as the event was FIA sanctioned, do they have to have stewards etc from overseas also?? If so perhaps it was an international steward who pulled the plug, unaware of the gentlemans agreement??

Perhaps someone with a bit more nouse on this subject can fill us in???
No, they don't have O/S stewards. They are the same blokes who deal with these issues at every other meeting. There is a core group who attend all the meetings plus a couple of local guys.
And anyone who believes that a gentleman's agreement to circumvent the rules has any validity at all, still believes in the tooth-fairy. The only way to succeed in this "sport" is to follow the rules to the very letter. That is how the clever guys are able to get away with plenty - they read the rules, then re-read them, and re-read them again, over and over again, until they know exactly what the rules ACTUALLY SAY, as distinct from what they may have been intended to say. And those blokes know that a "gentlemen's agreement" doesn't count for ZIP. No verbal agreement is worth the paper it's written on....

[Mike Gayner]

No verbal agreement is worth the paper it's written on....


Does anyone else know what's wrong with this sentence? :D

[trev47]

[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]there is no such thing as a verbal written contract, but good one to catch people out on trev47

[HOLDEN 1]

Rules are rules so SBR should take note .