Confirmed VE details & more news

[chuss]

These comments are true as I've seen the VE...

1. Holden will utilise the LS2 6.0L in the V8 cars. HSV Engines are not 100% confirmed yet, so I won't comment

2. The images you have seen of the spy shots are pretty spot on. Take a good look at the Torana Concept car and you'll have a pretty good idea on what it'll look like. Car has a very aggressive stance and tail-lights/headlights of the torana concept are pretty close.. :cool:

3. Holden is very unsure about other engines variants at the moment due to fuel prices. Holden for some reason has a strong belief that petrol prices within the next 1-2 years will hit $2 per L. alloytec options will be in the VE still.

4. Holden is experimenting with a twin turbo 4 cylinder optioned VE commodore (2.6L), but are unsure on whether it will be an option. Testing is still going on.

Holden is getting very serious about Nitrogen powered cars and Hybrids.. There may be an offering next year... :p

[Ryzz]

Interesting clues there mate. May i ask how you came across this information?

[dean]

What are they going to do about the 95ron requirement of the current LS2? I cant see this being popular on mainstream models.

[Danv8]

Twin turbo 4 cylinder ?
Any Commodore with a 4 cylinder reminds me of the horrible missfire engine. If they are going to start sticking in 4 cylinder engines in the Commodes then they might as well get the Torana up and running again. A twin turbo V6 I can understand but a twin turbo 4 cylinder what a waste!

[Vulture]

Couple of odd comments there: twin turbo 4 cyclinder? Nitrogen powered? Do you mean hydrogen powered? Can't see Holden putting one out before MB, BMW etc. I certainly hope that if they are considering a turbo six then it'd be of decent capacity rather than 2.6L

[SS_Fury]

Interesting clues there mate. May i ask how you came across this information?

i 2nd that...not doubting you, just curious to know.

[Bearz]

Are you sure its not a 2.6LTT alloytech v6? As i believe holden already make one of these for Saab, and make more sense.
Who would put two turbos of a four-cylinder?

[Thumper]

Are you sure its not a 2.6LTT alloytech v6? As i believe holden already make one of these for Saab, and make more sense.
Who would put two turbos of a four-cylinder?
Subaru Legacy 2.0 litre dohc turbos, from '94 to 97 had 2 turbos, they are used for anti-lag reasons, although I think they have gone back to the single unit.

[chuss]

I won't say who as I may get in trouble. But I "may" be related to a holden management staff in some way.. :rolleyes:

Not Hydrogen, ITS NITROGEN.. this is being trialled in a few places in the UK at the moment (pilot program). I said exactly the same thing, "Don't you mean hydrogen?", they replied, "definately not, it's nitrogen".

Definately a 4 cylinder, but as I mentioned it's a trial and may not go ahead. This person mentioned that things aren't looking good for it and they may scrap it.

But in all seriousness, take a good look at the spy pics and the torana concept and that's what it'll look like. The person mentioned that it has quite a bit of Audi influence in its' styling..

[TriShield]

It'd be nice to see Holden produce the twin-turbo Alloytech featured in the Torana concept. That might be the happiest medium between consumption and performance, as well as give the Barra 240T some competition.

[dean]

Isnt Nitrogen an inert gas? How do they make it combustible? :confused:

[HSVDKB]

What are they going to do about the 95ron requirement of the current LS2? I cant see this being popular on mainstream models.

LS2 runs OK on 91

[Ryzz]

Isnt Nitrogen an inert gas? How do they make it combustible? :confused:
Correct, here is some statements taken from a mining site. Leaves me as confused as you :confused:

Q Is nitrogen combustible?
A No.

Q What effect does nitrogen have towards propagating an explosion?
A None

Q What effect does nitrogen have upon life?
A It has no effect. except when it depletes oxygen to the extent that there is a deficiency of oxygen.

Q Does nitrogen have an ignition temperature?
A No, nitrogen will not explode.

As ive put in bold above, that would have the adverse affect of preventing an explosion as you require oxygen for a fire to burn/combust.

[muzza]

Surely the TT saab engine (low blow?) is the obvious choice for VE's "econo" engine.

If the Legacy TT setup was like the B4 sequential set up then they aren't too good with a nasty mid range torque deficit as the second bigger turbo spools up. Makes them have a bit of a pause in the middle of winding up.

A detuned LS 2 is looking likely isn't it? Will need to take 91 RON fuel and have less stonk than HSV. It will of course be called something else. DOD should be an obvious inclusion and only the new LS2 blocks have the oil galleries for this. Perhaps a lower compression 6.0 might appear with DOD.

[holdennutta]

Maybe that will shed some light on the nitrogen power thing...But still, why they would want to do it is beyond me!

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-car2.htm

[CarlFST60L]

google is your friend, accept last night :rolleyes:

Heat from the atmosphere vaporizes liquid nitrogen under pressure and produces compressed nitrogen gas. This compressed gas runs a pneumatic (compressed-gas-driven) motor with nitrogen gas as the exhaust.

Thanks: http://www.mtsc.unt.edu/n2car/faqn2car.htm

[vzsv6]

Couple of odd comments there: twin turbo 4 cyclinder? Nitrogen powered? Do you mean hydrogen powered?

I cannot see alternatively fuelled vehicles being successful in the short term future. First of all, these fuels would have to become mainstream at service stations around the country, otherwise where would you fill it up?
Its not just as simple as a manufacturer releasing alternatively fuelled cars....a LOT more has to happen before this can become viable.

[VX2VESS]

a powerful turbo diesel my not be bad 300kw :D

[VYBerlinaV8]

:idea:
I cannot see alternatively fuelled vehicles being successful in the short term future. First of all, these fuels would have to become mainstream at service stations around the country, otherwise where would you fill it up?
Its not just as simple as a manufacturer releasing alternatively fuelled cars....a LOT more has to happen before this can become viable.


Agreed. Further, with fuels such as ethanol where you can run an existing vehicle without major mods, why would you go to all the expense and effort of having a vehicle with weird fuelling requirements.

However, my hat is off to Holden for devoting resources toward trying new things. This goes for both the nitrogen engine and the 4cyl possibility. It shows they are trying to break free of the mould, and deliver some smarter products to the market.

Any news about the diesel engine that may be used? :idea:

[Ryzz]

Just reading up on the Nitrogen Option, thats seems very very advanced for someone like holden to be doing R&D testing on. That is the sort of think you would expect from BMW or Honda or maybe a GM Global project, but not a "holden" project. :confused:

[Ryzz]

Any news about the diesel engine that may be used? :idea:I read somewhere they where testing an Isuzu (Spelling??) diesel motor at one stage. Dont know what happened from there.

[hogs]

G'Day,

Gee, could be wrong but I reckon I heard this sort of info somewhere else recently.
6.0 Litre varient, DOD, detuned?

As I previously stated, why all of the wizz bang specials on SS, SSZ and Clubbies unless someone is in the know.

Hope you have not shelled out, cause me thinks that maybe even better deals may be in the wind.

Sounds interesting though.
How long do GM keep telling Porkies if it is the case. Good PR exercise.
Reminds me of VT Clubbies. Wake up one day and your new ride is already out of date.

Spose we'll see soon enough?

Cheers,

Hogs, ;)

HAS NOT POSTED 283 TIMES!

[Pickles]

Holden WON'T get LS2 in VE. Cheers, Pickles.

[Ghia351]

Isnt Nitrogen an inert gas? How do they make it combustible? :confused:
Correct, and some airliners use it to inflate their tyres to limit a fire hazard. Used to play with liquid nitrogen in the chem labs, I remember the squash ball dipped in a thermal flask of liquid nitrogen and then smashing it on the floor or dipping a flower in it and making it crumble afterwards. Needs a very low temp to keep it liquified.

[JamesL]

Me thinks if you go to Bob Jane (or now some other tyre places) they can put Nitro in ya tyres because the molecules are bigger than oxygen so if your rim or tyre is of a porous material you still will not loose as much air as you would if you had just standard plain servo station stuff..

:)

[The_Senator]

I heard about this process the other night.. It is up and running - and apparantly costs the same as a normal engine..

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Engineuity_R&D_Ltd.#Official_Website

[German Statesman]

I read somewhere they where testing an Isuzu (Spelling??) diesel motor at one stage. Dont know what happened from there.

Motor magazine said it was the 160kw/410nM VM single turbo V6 Italian-made unit that's in the Cherokee. I know a bloke in a Jeep dealer and he says its a helluva engine.

Hands up for the Duratec 6.6 turbo diesel from the Chev/GMC range!!! (Made by Isuzu BTW)

[chevypower]

Duratec would be a 3L Ford V6? maybe you mean Duramax? hehe I know Isuzu contributed in the designing. but i think it's just a GM engine

[BadMac]

These comments are true as I've seen the VE...

Are you sure you saw it or did your "mate tell you about it"

1. Holden will utilise the LS2 6.0L in the V8 cars. HSV Engines are not 100% confirmed yet, so I won't comment

I don't know anything, but from the various statements in this and other forums, the VE does not get LS2. It does get 6.0l, Holden are known to be investigating ways to be more furl efficient. Therefore the SS engine is likely to be the 6.0L aluminum block (L76) with Displacement On Demand technology and variable valve timing, rated at 355 horsepower (264 kw)*. This makes sense on so many levels, including it takes the technology lead over Ford, it makes V8's sexy, it actually saves fuel. Also the 264Kw is a modest increase on the current 250Kw.

2. The images you have seen of the spy shots are pretty spot on. Take a good look at the Torana Concept car and you'll have a pretty good idea on what it'll look like. Car has a very aggressive stance and tail-lights/headlights of the torana concept are pretty close.. :cool:

Did you actuall see the car, if so where, you mention you are somethng to do with management so don't give away your position, but can you give us more confidence that you have actually seen it, in full dress, with no "skirts or tape"? I hope you are right as I really liked the Torana package.

3. Holden is very unsure about other engines variants at the moment due to fuel prices. Holden for some reason has a strong belief that petrol prices within the next 1-2 years will hit $2 per L. alloytec options will be in the VE still.

Fuel will always vary. The current crisis is nearing an end. One problem with high fuel prices is that it makes the investment in plant to extract oil from tar sands very attractive (Australia and Canada have vast deposits). If this happens the Middle East (and US) loses control of the supply. Therefore prices are "managed" to ensure it remains uneconomic and uncertain. The current peak is now being "reduced to help consumers". It is not predicted to ever go back to US$20 per barrel, but may settle at US$40 (peak $US60+).

4. Holden is experimenting with a twin turbo 4 cylinder optioned VE commodore (2.6L), but are unsure on whether it will be an option. Testing is still going on.

No they are not, they have a TT V6 in testing. It is likely to be in VE S2, but may be only a single turbo by then.

Holden is getting very serious about Nitrogen powered cars and Hybrids.. There may be an offering next year... :p[/QUOTE]

Nitrogen is not a fuel. It does not combust (in fact is stops combustion). As referenced by others experiements have been conducted (by alternate fuel enthusists) which compress then store Nitrogen (others use air), then release it to drive a piston. The problem is compressing it, storing it (-200 is a bit cooler than my garage overnight) let alone that a 200l "tank" will do about 30km, goodbye boot and back seat and for extended range at least you won't need the "navagator" in the passenger seat and you'll have a valid excuse that the space is required for fuel.

The good news from all the "rumours and spy photos".
We know the SS:
Its a good looking car.
It has four doors
It is rear wheel drive (Phew).
It will probably handle better than anything before it (from Holden).
It will be more economical than previous Holdens and you can be sure it will be better than the BF falcon.
It will have 18" rubber.

From the various "opinions"
It may have a 6.0L aluminum block (L76) with Displacement On Demand technology and variable valve timing.
It may have the ZF6 speed automatic, but will have a 6 speed auto.
It may have HID lights
It may have 19" wheels

If it lives up to all the above "I want one NOW!!!". Where do I place an order?

[highlander_69r]

""Fuel will always vary. The current crisis is nearing an end. One problem with high fuel prices is that it makes the investment in plant to extract oil from tar sands very attractive (Australia and Canada have vast deposits). If this happens the Middle East (and US) loses control of the supply. Therefore prices are "managed" to ensure it remains uneconomic and uncertain. The current peak is now being "reduced to help consumers". It is not predicted to ever go back to US$20 per barrel, but may settle at US$40 (peak $US60+).""



i have a close souce that is high up in the international oil business and he confirmed that for me a fair few mnths ago , 40 us a barrel is quite sustainable in the world econ and a few more fields are about to be tapped in some unlikely international places , , so unless you live on king island (tassie) $2 l is quite far fetched

[Marco]

So how do the LS2 and the L76 differ? There's only so many ways you can make a 6.0 litre pushrod alloy V8, after all.

[seldo]

So how do the LS2 and the L76 differ? There's only so many ways you can make a 6.0 litre pushrod alloy V8, after all.
If you have a look at page 4 of this info sheet I think you'll learn a lot about the new engines... ;)
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160

[flappist]

Correct, here is some statements taken from a mining site. Leaves me as confused as you :confused:

Q Is nitrogen combustible?
A No.

Q What effect does nitrogen have towards propagating an explosion?
A None

Q What effect does nitrogen have upon life?
A It has no effect. except when it depletes oxygen to the extent that there is a deficiency of oxygen.

Q Does nitrogen have an ignition temperature?
A No, nitrogen will not explode.

As ive put in bold above, that would have the adverse affect of preventing an explosion as you require oxygen for a fire to burn/combust.

I heard of one planet where 80% of the gas that the dominant life form breathed was nitrogen.

I hope that there is not a strong influence from a certain northern asian country on the VE 4cyl, like as in FRONT WHEEL DRIVE..... :eek: :eek: :eek:

[SteveK]

Just reading up on the Nitrogen Option, thats seems very very advanced for someone like holden to be doing R&D testing on. That is the sort of think you would expect from BMW or Honda or maybe a GM Global project, but not a "holden" project. :confused:
Why is that hard to believe Ryzz? We've got to come up a level and believe the local market, for any products, can compete on the world stage with local R&D. It's been proven before so why can't we believe that Holden can mix it with the big boys.

If we have a pre-conceived notion that the rest of the worlds knowledge and scientific nouse is unachievable then we're also behind them in our self beliefs. We're alot better than our own perceptions.

Nothing against you matey, just trying to shift focus here.

Cheers,
Steve

[Ghia351]

Why is that hard to believe Ryzz? We've got to come up a level and believe the local market, for any products, can compete on the world stage with local R&D. It's been proven before so why can't we believe that Holden can mix it with the big boys.

If we have a pre-conceived notion that the rest of the worlds knowledge and scientific nouse is unachievable then we're also behind them in our self beliefs. We're alot better than our own perceptions.

Nothing against you matey, just trying to shift focus here.

Cheers,
Steve
I have to agree, our R&D ability is on par with the rest of the world and sometimes greater , it's the R&D dollars, or lack of where we suffer compared to the rest of the world. Digressing slightly, remember the story of NASA developing a pen that could write in zero gravity involving a million + dollar budget, while the Russians just used pencils.....

[Ryzz]

I have to agree, our R&D ability is on par with the rest of the world and sometimes greater , it's the R&D dollars, or lack of where we suffer compared to the rest of the world. Digressing slightly, remember the story of NASA developing a pen that could write in zero gravity involving a million + dollar budget, while the Russians just used pencils.....
Holden sell to a very small market, compared to the likes of BMW, GM Global, etc. Where im getting at is that i beleive Holden just is not as advanced as BMW. Im not trying to knock our local product, im a holden supporter true and true, i just dont beleive holden has the capacity to be doing the scope of R&D that some of the much much larger players in the market have. Id love to stand correct and it would be great to have a home grown product giving it to the world best, however im just trying to be realistic.

Compare the size of Holden in comparision to BMW, Merc, Audi, etc. The big german giants are massive in comparission. Hence bigger = more R&D Dollars = more R&D Projects = more R&D Results.

[HFV6]

Ok just to set some things straight, i think the bloke obviously meant hydrogen fuel-cell technology and not nitrogen fuel since its obvious nitrogen will have no part in automotive fuel of the future. With regard to the Hydrogen fuel proposition, it is a possibility, Hydrogen fuel cells are the next step and GM and BMW are both developing technologies based on Hydrogen fuel cells. However, this won't be a financially viable fuel source for at least another decade or so. It is more likely that hybrids may play a part given GM's interest and recent escalation of development. As for the transmissions, ZF will not be supplying the 6-speed auto, the 6-speed auto used will be a GM Powertrain unit and will be coupled only to V8 models. The auto transmission offered on volume models will be the GM Powertrain 5L40E as used in the Alloytec 190 application at present. The 4-speed will be discontinued. The 6.0L Alloy GM V8 with VVT and DOD coupled to the 6-speed GM Powertrain auto would be one hell of a leap foward in terms of fuel economy, you would expect perhaps a 15-20% improvement compared to LS1+4L60-E drivetrain combo. I don't know where the magazines got the ZF reference from because that isnt a possibility, ZF is supplying the differentials for the VE however, so that may have been the source of confusion. Twin-turbo Alloytec and Turbo-diesel VM Motori will arrive with Series II in 2008.

[myles]

Ok just to set some things straight, i think the bloke obviously meant hydrogen fuel-cell technology and not nitrogen fuel since its obvious nitrogen will have no part in automotive fuel of the future. With regard to the Hydrogen fuel proposition, it is a possibility, Hydrogen fuel cells are the next step and GM and BMW are both developing technologies based on Hydrogen fuel cells. However, this won't be a financially viable fuel source for at least another decade or so. It is more likely that hybrids may play a part given GM's interest and recent escalation of development. As for the transmissions, ZF will not be supplying the 6-speed auto, the 6-speed auto used will be a GM Powertrain unit and will be coupled only to V8 models. The auto transmission offered on volume models will be the GM Powertrain 5L40E as used in the Alloytec 190 application at present. The 4-speed will be discontinued. The 6.0L Alloy GM V8 with VVT and DOD coupled to the 6-speed GM Powertrain auto would be one hell of a leap foward in terms of fuel economy, you would expect perhaps a 15-20% improvement compared to LS1+4L60-E drivetrain combo. I don't know where the magazines got the ZF reference from because that isnt a possibility, ZF is supplying the differentials for the VE however, so that may have been the source of confusion. Twin-turbo Alloytec and Turbo-diesel VM Motori will arrive with Series II in 2008.

Very interesting. So series II is the big surprise? :cool: :)

[HFV6]

As to the discussion regarding nitrogen and its use in tyres:

From www.thecarconnection.com

Nitrogen for tires?



Q--I recently saw a sign advertising nitrogen inflation for car tires. Is this common, and what are the benefits? I never covered such practical matters in my high school chemistry class.



A--Nitrogen is often used to inflate the tires on racecars. First, it is convenient to have compressed gas bottles in the pits instead of an air compressor. Second, nitrogen doesn't absorb moisture as much as regular air, so tire pressures remain more constant. Third, nitrogen is non-combustible and will not support combustion like compressed air.

But as far as I know, there is no benefit to passenger cars other than the moisture issue, which might cause minor surface rusting of steel wheels. Maybe it would also be useful for vintage or collector cars during storage. We are not convinced that it is a waste of money.

[Wezza]

Blah blah blah................it's all speculation. I'll wait til i actually see the car with my own eyes before i believe anything.

[HJCoupe]

A friend of a friend of a friend spotted a set of 20 inch 3 piece rims destined for the HSV VE series cars............14-16 spoked outers held with quite a few allen head bolts inner and outer enabling you to change the rim centres styles. ;)