used the new shell fuel!!

[VZ SV8]

hey everyone.

well i thought i would try the new shell optimax Extreme fuel today. the car is currently tuned on ultimate.

well i didnt like the old optimax but the new one is definitely a good buy, i would seriously recommend it.

i was surprised how slowly the tank was going down even with my P plate right foot!! lol

power and response has also definitely improved.

it was only 3c a litre more then 98 optimax so it is not that expensive either.

just thought i would share it with you all.

anyone else used it yet????

[HSVJPL]

Word of warning,

Beware when using any fuel/ethanol mix such as Shell extreme. Testing has conclusively shown that a mixture with 90% reg fuel, 9% ethanol and 1% water (condensatin in the fuel) creates a highly corrosive ****tail.

All elements of the fuel system will begin to corrode at an alarmingly fast rate. This data has been presented to the government which is why the fuel Co's are forced to place labels on the bowsers asking you to check with the vehicle manufacturer before using their fuel, by the way, if you do the answer will be no.

I know Shell extreme adsvertises only 5% ethanol, however the OE's have not tested this combination and so there is no way to judge if it is better, worse or just as bad as 10%.

How do I know all this? I am a Senior development engineer at a local OEM, who will not be using any ethanol based fuel even in my lawn mower.

[LS1VT]

I just filled up my tank with optimax extreme a few days ago and have noticed my fuel guage going down considerably quicker compared to using BP Ultimate. Unfortunetly did'nt notice any difference in performance, so after this tank i think i'll go back to using good old Bp

[Ghia351]

Word of warning,

Beware when using any fuel/ethanol mix such as Shell extreme. Testing has conclusively shown that a mixture with 90% reg fuel, 9% ethanol and 1% water (condensatin in the fuel) creates a highly corrosive ****tail.

All elements of the fuel system will begin to corrode at an alarmingly fast rate. This data has been presented to the government which is why the fuel Co's are forced to place labels on the bowsers asking you to check with the vehicle manufacturer before using their fuel, by the way, if you do the answer will be no.

I know Shell extreme adsvertises only 5% ethanol, however the OE's have not tested this combination and so there is no way to judge if it is better, worse or just as bad as 10%.

How do I know all this? I am a Senior development engineer at a local OEM, who will not be using any ethanol based fuel even in my lawn mower.
While I respect your comments and as a ind. chemist agree that the hygroscopic nature of ethanol causes it to create the corrosive mixture you describe I'm certain such blends have been used in the US for a long time and just ask has this been a problem over there or are their fuel systems built to cope. A local bus company (Ventura??) runs a couple of Ethanol only fueled buses and I wonder what mods they undertook to run reliably?

[pagey]

yes terrible stuff.. I wont be using that horrible 100ron fuel..http://www.xtrememass.com/forum//images/smilies/gaypride.gif

[Vulture]

Testing has conclusively shown that a mixture with 90% reg fuel, 9% ethanol and 1% water (condensatin in the fuel) creates a highly corrosive ****tail.

:lol: Loved the censorship of that naughty word!

[VZ SV8]

i will see how i go.

i did notice a difference in performance though.

i will have a chat to the dealer and ask their opinion.

[drone14]

Word of warning,

This data has been presented to the government which is why the fuel Co's are forced to place labels on the bowsers asking you to check with the vehicle manufacturer before using their fuel, by the way, if you do the answer will be no.


Most of the major Australian auto companies have officially approved ethanol blend fuels for use in their vehicles.

However, I would not let it within 50 feet of my fuel tank.

[Tonner]

Curiosity has got me, Ill give it !/2 a tankful,

[SENATOR_VX]

Well this thread will build for sure as the old fuel debate rages all the time.

I had not even heard about the new fuel until I rad this thread and then hit the Shell site.

Interesting that the V8 Super Cars are using this fuel next year.

This is a quote from the Shell web site:


“We are also extremely excited that following positive testing, V8 Supercars Australia has chosen Shell Optimax Extreme, which is a world first “super-premium” fuel with 5% ethanol, as the official fuel of the 2006 series. But more importantly, the fuel used by the V8 racing cars next year will be the same fuel available at the service station pump for customers who drive modern and high performance vehicles,” he said.

I am still not convinced either way as I just plain don't know about Ethanol.

The one thing that I do know is that if you read the Shell info on the new fuel. The comparisons to using Optimax & the New Optimax required adjustments in tuning.

Anyone who has had their car performance tuned will likely have to have it re tuned anyway to work out if there is any performance gains to be had.

As an FYI: The site quotes Dick Johnston as saying: “We also found that when taking up to 8% of the fuel out of the engine, and adjusting the timing to suit, it actually delivered better power, which to me, demonstrates Shell Optimax Extreme will deliver better fuel economy. I truly believe that the V8 Supercars will love Shell Optimax Extreme."

So intersting claims from the V8 Super Car teams and AVESCO.

The other note that I make is that the site stated at the moment it is only being produced out of the Geelong refinery. This being the case, I have heard plenyt about the effects of travelling on the actual RON of fuel. Surely it can't be expected to retain its quality after being roaded from Melbourne to here?

Anyway I have learbed something new tonight so I will keep looking into it.

[XLR8 V8]

The other note that I make is that the site stated at the moment it is only being produced out of the Geelong refinery. This being the case, I have heard plenyt about the effects of travelling on the actual RON of fuel. Surely it can't be expected to retain its quality after being roaded from Melbourne to here?


Shell's fuel in Brisbane is transported up by ships. Helix1 and Helix2 dock at the back of the Terminal at Pinkenba.

[SENATOR_VX]

Being shipped up from Melbourne to Brisbane makes a shipload more sende than trucking it of course.

I still am not convinced there is NO loss of quality / RON as the time in transit must contribute to degredation.

Of more interest would be a release of testing on the actual fuel being held in the tanks at different locations in ecah state. Very unlikely to happen though.

[HSVJPL]

Although Shell Extreme is advertised as 100 Octane, I believe there will no performance gains over Optimax or BP Ultimate.

Even more important than a fuels RON is it's calorific value, that is the amount of energy released as it burns, per gram. As you can see below ethanol is at the bottom end of the scale in terms of calorific value.

Petrol 50 kJ/g
Diesel 45 kJ/g
Ethanol 30 kJ/g

Petrol has a 66% higher energy value than ethanol, by adding ethanol into the mix costs are reduced but at the loss of performance as it is an inferior fuel.

[Jac001]

[QUOTE=HSVJPL]
Petrol 50 kJ/g
Diesel 45 kJ/g
Ethanol 30 kJ/g

QUOTE]

any idea what the density (at say 20C) of each of these fuels are? Unfortunately i do not buy fuel by weight but by volume.

[Robos R33]

I put some 40 litres of it in the other day and the first thing i noticed, it reduces my knock levels which i read through my Power FC (computer). I know my car is different to a LS1, but i will be using as i feel if its reducing knock and therefore a little less stressed, its got to be safer for my motor.

[SENATOR_VX]

Well just for fun and to see what the difference is, I am going to run it for the next 2x Weeks to get a good feel for it. I am due a service in 1600KM and I will about knock them over in the next 2x Weeks so it should be a reasonable sample.

PowerTorque do all my work and dyno etc. So will all this on record and a Dyno done not long back I am going to do a before and after compare. Mark will get it on the Dyno when it is booked in and see what difference it has made. (Without any adjustments on timing etc.)

Then I hope to get it adjusted for the new fuel if nothing has gone wrong between now and then.

I will start up a diary and note anything of interest while I am doing the trial. Of course I will post it back on this thread or may even start a new one if needed.

Anyway just filled up and have done the first 9.28KM with it using 2.28L. those where fairly hard 9.28KM as well to make sure the fuel gets sucked in and mashes in the 10L or so left of the BP Ultimate that was in the tank/Lines. Added 66.13L of the Optimax Extreme.

Something novel is that I have forgotten about the whole Shopper Docket thing for the discount and flybuys. Some fringe benefits while trialling the Shell Fuel. Being BP Ultimate driven prior there where none of these little added bonusses.

Let the Games Begin! :D

[fatas]

off topic a bit just did a tank ( 68l ) of the 98 ethonol blend in the rodeo v6 from a servo up the blue mountains went to bathurst and back and got a whopping 80 + km out of the tank and more pull up mount vic no pussy footing arund either if it does no harm i will buy it when you get more km and you 60 + k a year its a saving.:idea: :thumbsup: :driving: :D

[SV300]

I have also just filled up at Kallangur with 66L. Its mixed with Elite98 a little.

I struggle to get 450/tank with Elite98. Should get back to 500/tank city driving. Not had a chance to play with it as it was raining swimming pools on the way home.

See how it goes tomorrow.

Yes, Kallangur has Shell 100 from today.


James

[SilverB]

Does anyone know if it available in the sticks yet or is it just in city stations??

[chev]

I put some 40 litres of it in the other day and the first thing i noticed, it reduces my knock levels which i read through my Power FC (computer). I know my car is different to a LS1, but i will be using as i feel if its reducing knock and therefore a little less stressed, its got to be safer for my motor.
Why don't you get your tuner to take a little timing out?:D

[Rod VZ Storm]

I ran some Extreme in my VZ V6 this week
I put about 55L of Extreme into a tank that had about 15L of mix Mobil95/BP98 in it
The run Tweed heads to Kew was 8.0L/100km on the trip computer.

Then i filled up at Kew.
I filled the tank with BP 95RON and got 8.4L/100km from Kew to Hornsby on the freeway. (trip computer reading)

The difference in economy may just be the different road conditions.
The car ran fine on both fuels. No extra power was noticeable on Extreme

Thats my $0.02.
My local Shell in Sydney now has Extreme in stock, so i might run it for 2-3 full tanks to see how i go.
Rod

[Rod VZ Storm]

To SILVERB:
Check the Shell web site
There is a list of outlets
Its mainly city stations mate

[SENATOR_VX]

I will start up a diary and note anything of interest while I am doing the trial. Of course I will post it back on this thread or may even start a new one if needed.

Anyway just filled up and have done the first 9.28KM with it using 2.28L. those where fairly hard 9.28KM as well to make sure the fuel gets sucked in and mashes in the 10L or so left of the BP Ultimate that was in the tank/Lines. Added 66.13L of the Optimax Extreme.

Let the Games Begin! :D

Day 2 of the Extreme fuel games::D

Normal Day with a trip to Richlands from Albany Creek. Approx 38KM Half in Traffic. ** Performance seems to be slightly more smooth and responsive. Small level of boost as the skip from first to second in the auto is more evident yesterday and today.**
Second Half on Centenary Highway: Not so much traffic and I changed the computer to instant fuel. Cruising at 100 (or so) it was purring along at between 7.1-9.4 along the flat sections. Of interest though was when leaving the 80KH section and booting it to 100 it got there more smoothly than normal. (Brief but noticeable.)

So after 2x Customer visits and a progressive total of 95KM's the average fuel overall is on 17L/100K (1-3L less than normal)

More updates later but so far I am impressed more than I expected as I had prepared it not to perform this well.
There is no pinging or anythig either. (Not unexpected.)

Cheers,

[LS1BEN]

I tried some in my little run around car - a 91 charade with a 1.3l in it. There was a very noticeable gain in power and seems to be allot smother all round. Every little bit helps in a car with this power.

[B-REX]

Tried the new Shell fuel. Noticed instantly that the engine ran smoother and the slight pinging problem that has occured in the last month has gone.
Noticed an increase in fuel consumption though on average around 1 l / 100km more.

[MICK_EZEKIEL]

hey everyone.

well i thought i would try the new shell optimax Extreme fuel today. the car is currently tuned on ultimate.

well i didnt like the old optimax but the new one is definitely a good buy, i would seriously recommend it.

i was surprised how slowly the tank was going down even with my P plate right foot!! lol

power and response has also definitely improved.

it was only 3c a litre more then 98 optimax so it is not that expensive either.

just thought i would share it with you all.

anyone else used it yet????

Hey VZ SV8... also try http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=46842 as the shell extreme fuel is talked about here too...

[georgec]

Used it for one full tankfull in the GTS. No difference in performance, no difference in fuel economy. Engine seemed to rattle more. Back to BP Ultimate now. Also I philosophically object to paying 3c per litre more for fuel that is cheaper for Shell to produce in the first place and for which they receive a government subsidy to boot.

[slickholden]

I don't know about this fuel, Hell i don't like shell my car has ran on shell for 2 full tanks cause i got 14c per litre off, And i ran the Premium shit to, It has been running like crapo, Back to Vortex 1 full tank later back to normal.

[Bazz]

Also I philosophically object to paying 3c per litre more for fuel that is cheaper for Shell to produce in the first place and for which they receive a government subsidy to boot.

Just going along with what georgec has started to say here....why isn't Ultimate cheaper if its better for cars and the environment? Shouldn't the government be promoting this only environmentally safe (can't remember the exact word used) fuel and subsidise this more instead of letting the fuel company prices come through as high as they are?

Now I'm gonna throw this question up in the air.

I'd like to know what the people who say a definite no to this fuel will do when eventually we have to run it?? This is of course assuming it goes the same way as leaded fuel where the better/cleaner(whatever) fuel overruns regular unleaded with no ethanol?

[Sidewindr]

DJ would say Shell is the great stuff, they sponsor DJR .. ;)

[slowmonaro]

optimax extreme does a strange thing to my monaro - which is std. other than edit. occasionally when i change down gears (from 3rd to 2nd say) the motor will race at around 2000rpm for a few seconds before dropping down to idle speed.
This has happened a few times on both the occasions that i used opt.extreme and NEVER on 50000 km of various other fuels - i wont buy it again.
cheers
adam

[badnews]

i filled up my clubby with shell extreme after i couldnt find any bp ultimate in canberra for three weeks. i reset the pcm after filling up cos i was running bp premium for the 3 weeks prior and car wasnt running so well, made a fair bit of difference but now im back on ultimate and the car goes just the same. never really liked shell fuel though after going to autosalon with my brother in his s15, we fuelled up with optimax for the first time and on full throttle the car couldnt hold boost and kept fluctuating. once we got back and put ultimate back in it worked fine. thats my 2 cents

[gasguz]

it was only 3c a litre more then 98 optimax so it is not that expensive either.


price is now 7c difference (7c more than OPTIMAX), what a rort, so now we have a fuel that is 17c more than normal unleaded. I paid $1.36l today,

[VX2VESS]

it was only 3c a litre more then 98 optimax so it is not that expensive either.


price is now 7c difference (7c more than OPTIMAX), what a rort, so now we have a fuel that is 17c more than normal unleaded. I paid $1.36l today,

not sure of what else is in it but most suspect the make it 100 by adding the 5% ethanol to 98.

So only 3 cents more than 98 is a rort. they add a cheaper subsidised product and charge more for it, should be the same price

[SENATOR_VX]

I have posted a couple of times with updates on this thread. The latest update is that I have been using the fuel now for at least a month and am used to it now. Still prefer it to the Ultimate only just marginally. At least now though I get Fly Buys on my fuel. :jester: Like that will ever amount to anything. hehehe

The next test is that I am getting heads done in a week's time and tune will be done to the new fuel. (Still running tune to Ultimate) after the tune is done to the new fuel perhaps it will be an even better set up.

I will post back when the deed is done and any comments. I may do a retro tank of Ultimate after it is set up and see if there is any difference going backwards as such. This would be a keen indication to show if there is any tuning benefit from the Opti Extreeme, or not.

[Growler]

Although Shell Extreme is advertised as 100 Octane, I believe there will no performance gains over Optimax or BP Ultimate.

Even more important than a fuels RON is it's calorific value, that is the amount of energy released as it burns, per gram. As you can see below ethanol is at the bottom end of the scale in terms of calorific value.

Petrol 50 kJ/g
Diesel 45 kJ/g
Ethanol 30 kJ/g

Petrol has a 66% higher energy value than ethanol, by adding ethanol into the mix costs are reduced but at the loss of performance as it is an inferior fuel.
I am not too sure I agree with inferior fuel, a different type for sure. The following link is a pretty good article on Ethanol v Gasoline. It seems the biggest factors with Ethanol is it's high Octane rating and higher latent heat. This helps to compensate for the lower energy rating per gram in a properly tuned engine.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual1-2.html

[maximum.boost]

I recently got rid of my mildy tuned 200sx, 244kws @ the rears, ran one tank of shell optimax extreme through it and i could definitely notice some extra low down torque from the fuel. I was getting an extra bit of boost down low in the rev range which was accounting for the extra torque. Generally there are a lot of factors in a turbo car which can affect their performance, but at the time the only significantly noticeable change was the fuel.

I'm yet to put it into the ss ute and give it a go. Just got the car so i'm curious to see how the fuel economy is in a V8 LS1. At the moment i'm getting about 15L/100klms in city driving on standard 91RON unleaded. I'll throw in a tank of 95RON premium next time and compare and then some 98RON fuel and compare that too, so far i'm not really happy with the economy but its kind of what i expected from a V8 :)

Cheers

[MNR-0]

I have personally discussed this issue, face to face, with the calibration engineers at Fishermans bend and was informed the current offering of minimal ethanol belnds is safe for our cars.

[DTM_UTE]

Tried a full tank last week, didnt noticed any performance increse but the fuel gauage seems dropping alot quicker then using BP...i can ran 500km a tank with mixed driving but the new optimax exterm can only last for 380kms....and didnt really feel its goes better...etc....anyway i would not use it again!

[B Frank]

There is plenty of info about ethanol and locations of sale points on the extreme web site....

www.100octane.com

[alexcs]

Being shipped up from Melbourne to Brisbane makes a shipload more sende than trucking it of course.

I still am not convinced there is NO loss of quality / RON as the time in transit must contribute to degredation.

Of more interest would be a release of testing on the actual fuel being held in the tanks at different locations in ecah state. Very unlikely to happen though.

why would it degrade in transit? its in sealed compartments until released into servo ground tanks.

[Y2kGoofball]

tried to use it once again

the 100 is only at servos near work so ive got to get the car to run empty near work

bingo did it this morning

err no, pump still out of action :flamin:

i give up, ive been trying now for so long. I either get the car on empty at the wrong end of my trip (ie near home where there is no 100) or I pull up at a servo thats pumps out of action

[LMr8]

Some anectodal experience for what it's worth - I normally use BP 98 but I've used Optimax Extreme for the last 6 full tanks.

After the first tank went through I reset the PCM, which I do every now and then to get rid of an annoying 1st gear hesitation (M6) that seems to creep back a week or so after a reset. It feels like the car slightly stumbles whenever you slip the clutch out from a stop - makes it feel like it might stall. I imagine this is the PCM retarding timing due reduce knock, and it's done it since new. The reset cures it, if only temporarily.

But the hesitation came back with Optimax Extreme - and was more noticable than ever - within days of the reset. I figured I'd put up with it for a while, and two full tanks later reset the PCM again, and experienced the same thing.

So from a non scientific perspective Optimax Extreme doesn't perform (for me anyhow) as well as BP98. Today I've changed over to the Freedom 98, I'll see how that goes. Sounds like it might be better than both of them.

LM

[LMr8]

So from a non scientific perspective Optimax Extreme doesn't perform (for me anyhow) as well as BP98. Today I've changed over to the Freedom 98, I'll see how that goes. Sounds like it might be better than both of them.


Well, a week and two tanks of Freedom 98 later and the hesitation isn't back and it's noticibly punchier down low. I give it two thumbs up .... :diddy:

Anyone else tested it out??

[vx_clubby]

DJ would say Shell is the great stuff, they sponsor DJR .. ;)

Yes this was exactly my thoughts too :P
Damn salesman.

[B Frank]

Some interesting info I found out last night.
I used to work at a well known rotary workshop in Melbourne. I called in last night to say hi and they were dyno testing a few cars running purely optimax extreme. (the closest petrol station is a supplier of optimax extreme, so that helped)
They tested it on more than a few different makes and models of cars from rotary to a twin turbo small block. My ears are still ringing.
Testing found on all the cars used a greater resistance to pinging and detonation at big boost pressures. That intern gave the ability of tuning for more power.The ethanol seems to work well as a an anti-knocking agent. It also smells sweet as!!!!
Increased "safe" power and torque figures where seen all through the graph, (usually about 10% over previous figures) and on road driving "feel" was substantial. Obviously still no comparison to C16, VP 109 or other race orientated fuel but not bad for pump fuel.

Yet to test on the strip to see time variations..
Fill you in on that after the next calder meet.

Hopefully have some fuel economy figures also. Although these cars really aren't tuned for economy.

[macca33]

This does sound promising, but I'm still concerned about using Ethanol.

Am I being too fatalistic, or, is it safe????

I've heard that Boost 98 is alright and it is the ONLY 98 fuel in my town, so if I could be assured that it wouldn't do me any harm, I'd give it a go.

Can anyone, mechanics/tuners/engineers assist with an opinion?

Regards,

Macca

[SENATOR_VX]

I have been running the Optimax Extreeme for a couple of months now. It has been all good accept making sure that I could get it from servo's that I was travelling near.

Bottom line is I had the heads done just over a week ago and tuned on the 100. I have tried going back to Ultimate for 2x Tanks and there was definately a small lag in the power compared to when I went back to the 100 again and it is back on track.

Doesn't say if either is better though it does appear tuning for ultimate means I could run either.
Tuned on 100 then I have to keep using 100 or accept a small reduction of power if I have to use a tank or 2 of Ultimate.

[Stocky]

This does sound promising, but I'm still concerned about using Ethanol.

Am I being too fatalistic, or, is it safe????

I've heard that Boost 98 is alright and it is the ONLY 98 fuel in my town, so if I could be assured that it wouldn't do me any harm, I'd give it a go.

Can anyone, mechanics/tuners/engineers assist with an opinion?

Regards,

Macca

Macca33,
MNR-0 said it earlier in this thread
I have personally discussed this issue, face to face, with the calibration engineers at Fishermans bend and was informed the current offering of minimal ethanol belnds is safe for our cars.

Cheers


Stocky

[VX SS S2]

Geez, i was going to fill up with this stuff but i'm not so sure now...

There doesn't seem to be a general consensus on whether this is any good or not... and i can't workout whether variations in build by Holden are making the difference... if the fuel is just a placebo for the people that think it make a difference.... or the fuel is no different than Ultimate because lets face it, it's 2 octane points....???

[Alister]

Sorry if someone has already mentioned it but Shell add an anti-corrosion additive to the fuel. This is really just a safeguard as 5% ethanol is really not going to do any damage to any of your car's components.

I had a customer come in and said he put his V8 Rover on the the dyno and gained 6hp more using Optimax Extreme. Interesting...
Some guys that race Ferraris that come in with a car in the back of a truck buy about $200-$350 worth of it in one hit for use in their race cars. I asked the guy what he had in the back of a truck and he said a 430 IIRC. He seemed to reckon the fuel is pretty good.

I haven't used it in my VX Calais V8 yet but in my U13 Bluebird, I didn't notice any difference apart from a slightly rougher idle.