Holden Captiva...first pic here...plus other new model news

[HRT433]

http://www.hrt433.com/creations/images/captiva.jpg

Ok, well sort of.

It has been announced that the model know as the S3X, while it was still a concept, will be known as Captiva in some markets. Holden however refused to confirm if it would take that nameplate here in oz.

A bit of searching has revealed that Holden have registered the Captiva name for use in Australia (and Captiva Maxx), so it is looking more likely that the Holden Captiva will be unleashed on and off the road sometime in the second half of 2006.

A couple of other thing unearthed in my travels are the names Acteva, Acteva Maxx, Evoke ad Evoke Maxx have also been registered by the general for use downunder...what these are for hasn't been identified yet.

A number of Cadillac model names, as well as hummer, h1 h2, and h3, Equinox, Equinox Maxx, have all also been register just to add more fuel to the rumours that both will be introduced to the Australian market in the near future.

Just a couple more...SVZ and Calais V-Series...more special edition VZ's...V-Series...that sounds very Cadillac doesn't it...

[MICK_EZEKIEL]

Looks a bit like a BMW X3 or X5 on the side...

Wonder how big is it as Holden need somthing to take the sales away from the Territory too...

[Dickie Knee]

This is not the fist pic of this car you have done.

Where is the one you did last year?

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=29604

[PaulST]

Calais V-Series
You mean Calais and not Cadillac? SVZ, I suppose that could be a run out model for next year. Maxx seems to be Holden's version of Ghia and since there's three model I wonder if one is the new name for the Daewoo-built Vectra replacement?

[muzza]

It looks like a Bloody Volvo!:lol:

[KEV EB XR8]

Looks a bit like a BMW X3 or X5 on the side...

Wonder how big is it as Holden need somthing to take the sales away from the Territory too...

I dont think this is the car to do it.......bring back the ROCKY.:bash:

[HRT433]

This is not the fist pic of this car you have done.

Where is the one you did last year?


Here it is...my web hosting has changed slightly since then...personally I like my new version better :)
http://www.hrt433.com/creations/images/trekka.jpg
I put a ton more work into my latest effort. It take quite a bit of effort to successfully put a background behind a car that was originally on a white background, and to get it to look realisitc. It was something I hadn't really tried properly before, and I like the results I got.



You mean Calais and not Cadillac? SVZ, I suppose that could be a run out model for next year. Maxx seems to be Holden's version of Ghia and since there's three model I wonder if one is the new name for the Daewoo-built Vectra replacement?

Yes, Calais not Cadillac, there was also SS V-Series. My thoughts were that maybe it was going to be the name for what became the SSZ. Chevrolet have 'MAXX' models in the US they seem to be sportier variants, aimed at younger buyers. One of the others could be a name for the Vectra replacement.


Wonder how big is it as Holden need somthing to take the sales away from the Territory too...


Its big enough to be a Territory competitor, and that is what Holden are hoping it will do.

[ShanghaiVZ]

Not bad mate, not bad at all, needs a colour change of course :) Holden needs everything it can get/make, since the closing of 9 plants in the states, the GM CEO says Oz is safe, of course it's bloody safe if not it would be the end of Holden as we know it :( and that would be catastrophic...Latest MOTOR has details.

[Ghia351]

Looks a bit like a BMW X3 or X5 on the side...

Wonder how big is it as Holden need somthing to take the sales away from the Territory too...

Territory/Captiva
L:4856/4639mm
W:1898/1848mm
H: 1714/1722mm
WB: 2842/approx 2700

[Kirium]

It looks like a Bloody Volvo!:lol:

Yep... plenty of XC90 in the front end...

[Marco]

Have they registered Epica or Evanda? They seem to be the names being kicked around in other countries for the Daewoo mid-sizer. (It's called something else in Korea, but the name has completely escaped me at the moment).

Have to say I don't really like Captiva as a name though, the idea of being imprisoned in a car...

[Jac001]

Territory/Captiva
L:4856/4639mm
W:1898/1848mm
H: 1714/1722mm
WB: 2842/approx 2700


What will it have under the bonnet? will need something decent to compete with fords 4L + A6 combo....

[Nobby]

What will it have under the bonnet? will need something decent to compete with fords 4L + A6 combo....

2.8 litre V6, Alloytech derivitive I think. Or 3.6, I cant remember which. All driving through the front wheels...

[Martin_D]

Dont hold your breath that this Korean pile of junk will be on level pegging with a Territory. Woeful chassis dynamics, poor off road ability, and crude drivelines are a Daewoo hallmark, which will make it look pretty sallow lined up next to a vehicle as technically competent as the Territory...particularly with the Turbo Territory hitting the market in Jan. Its Game Over this one....

[vxtreem]

Looks like a Barina on steroids or err estrogen :p

- too small
- is it a 7 seater, for who, elfs
- not a holden in my eyes

Not for me sorry

[cwhast]

2.8 litre V6, Alloytech derivitive I think. Or 3.6, I cant remember which. All driving through the front wheels...
it will have a 3.2 litre Alloytec. should make 170/180kw hopefully.

[cwhast]

there will be 2WD/AWD models like in the Territory, although with this one the 2WD model will be FWD.

[seldo]

:lol: Gotta laugh at some of you experts giving it a bagging when it hasn't even been released yet. You have seen nothing more than a photo and yet some of you are slagging its dynamics.... Give us a break. Of course you may be proven to be correct, but at least wait until you've seen one, or even better still - actually driven one...Fair call?

[Martin_D]

"Woeful chassis dynamics, poor off road ability, and crude drivelines are a Daewoo hallmark"

That is not an accurate statement? Im might suggest you actually go out and drive a few cars Seldo. Its what I do for a living....so I suppose I am 'an expert'. Fair call?

[seldo]

"Woeful chassis dynamics, poor off road ability, and crude drivelines are a Daewoo hallmark"

That is not an accurate statement? Im might suggest you actually go out and drive a few cars Seldo. Its what I do for a living....so I suppose I am 'an expert'. Fair call?Can't argue with their past history, but it is hardly a given that the new one will be the same. Hopefully, with Holden's input they may have tamed some of that and the new one will be a reasonable thing. My point was that until someone has actually seen or driven it, it seems unreasonable to just pan it out of hand. When it does arrive and you have driven it I'd be interested to see what you say then. BTW, Since I've probably got 25 years on you and spent 30 years in the business, I'd reckon I've probably driven more cars than you've had hot breakfasts, but that still doesn't give me (or you) any way of determining how a yet to be released car will drive...unless your crystal ball is turboed whereas I have to stick with my ancient N/A one ..;)

[Martin_D]

Can't argue with their past history, but it is hardly a given that the new one will be the same. Hopefully, with Holden's input they may have tamed some of that and the new one will be a reasonable thing.

Good concept....but dont count on it. Holden had a good range of capable midsized and small cars which were chopped purely for cost slashing and profit building purposes. Having said that anyone that buys a Barina/Viva etc gets exactly what they deserve :)

[seldo]

Good concept....but dont count on it. Holden had a good range of capable midsized and small cars which were chopped purely for cost slashing and profit building purposes. Having said that anyone that buys a Barina/Viva etc gets exactly what they deserve :)
True enough. But of course the public get what they deserve and when Excell, Fiesta et al came on the market at $12999 drive away (or what ever the number was) the buyers came in hordes and set the benchmark for the manufacturers to "forget the quality - just look at the price.."

[Venom XR]

Festiva was the crappy Korean cheapo one...the Fiesta is the better (and more expensive) new small Ford.

For those who like A-B cars with crap quality, the Barina will do very well.

[Martin_D]

Fiesta and Focus (including XR5) are world class small cars, and streets ahead of anything GM has on offer.

[Venom XR]

How do you think the XR5 will stack up against the HSV Turbo Astra?

[B-REX]

Fiesta and Focus (including XR5) are world class small cars, and streets ahead of anything GM has on offer.

Tuna, You should know better than to come onto this forum with opinions other than blinkered one eyed views. People may start to think you have an open mind about automotive issues! Careful:D

[Nobby]

How do you think the XR5 will stack up against the HSV Turbo Astra?

The Top Gear review said the Vauxhaul was a little quicker (noticeably), however it was, relatively speaking at least, utterly undrivable. I believe the phrases "Torque steers like a pig." and "Good if you like going left a lot." was used.

Its funny though, both cars are red hot looking. The Astra is smokin, whilst the Focus is sporty but in a typically 'Ford-ish' understated sort of way. Both base model cars look a bit disappointing though, the Focus is bland and the Astra is ugly. Amazing they could sporn such gorgeous little monster rockets.

[cwhast]

the Fiesta is the better (and more expensive) new small Ford.
They don't tell people the German-engineered runt is built in South Africa.

[seldo]

Festiva was the crappy Korean cheapo one...the Fiesta is the better (and more expensive) new small Ford.

For those who like A-B cars with crap quality, the Barina will do very well. Sorry, my bad - I meant the Festiva. Fiesta and Focus are damn good little cars

[Martin_D]

The XR5 Turbo Focus will be the gun. It has an excellent engine - 5 cyl turbo Volvo 2.5 - and we will be releasing tuning software for them which 'should' be able to take them to around 220 - 230kw. 13 second quarters out of a Focus will be cool fun! :)

[tbearz]

How do you think the XR5 will stack up against the HSV Turbo Astra?


In recent episode of top gear jeremy said its just a better car....although he said if given a vxr he would defend it to the hill but would he buy one well no but he would buy a Focus St/xr5

Torque steer seems to be the biggest problem with the vxr, xr5 doesnt suffer as much

[Venom XR]

They don't tell people the German-engineered runt is built in South Africa.

They don't tell people the RHD F-Series are built in Brazil either. The Fiesta/Focus is also built in Spain, Germany - Brazil to I think. India makes a localised version of the Fiesta that Aus. engineers helped design. These days, I believe Aus. sources Fiesta and 3-door Focus from the plant in Cologne, Germany whilst it's the 4/5 door Focus we get from SA.

Mercedes source C-class sedans from SA, and BMW get their 3-Series from there too.

[Venom XR]

The XR5 Turbo Focus will be the gun. It has an excellent engine - 5 cyl turbo Volvo 2.5 - and we will be releasing tuning software for them which 'should' be able to take them to around 220 - 230kw. 13 second quarters out of a Focus will be cool fun! :)

Nice! Ford's not marketed the Fiesta/Focus as well as they should, and the XR5 is a step in the right direction. With the HSV Astra, it'll be like the local small car battles of the 70's all over again.

[HSVMAN]

Good concept....but dont count on it. Holden had a good range of capable midsized and small cars which were chopped purely for cost slashing and profit building purposes. Having said that anyone that buys a Barina/Viva etc gets exactly what they deserve :)

Tuna, the cars that were given the chop were dropped purely because they couldnt compete in today's market on price. The Daewoo sourced Barina/Vivas are aimed at competing on price, not more profit. Whilst it is plain to see they are relatively plain yet carry all the basics, these cars were very reliable in their previous guises.
I just bought a Demo Astra CDXi for the good lady and its in a different league altogether (and dearer) there's no doubt about it! She had previously shown interest in a Viva because she thought it was "good value for the money". This is why they will sell
Toyota is now looking at sourcing cheaper alternatives too as they also realise where the market is heading.
It will be interesting to see how much influence Holden can make on the new SX3, which they claim is a "full sized SUV" and to what extent it will impact on the market

[PaulST]

In recent episode of top gear jeremy said its just a better car....although he said if given a vxr he would defend it to the hill but would he buy one well no but he would buy a Focus St/xr5

Torque steer seems to be the biggest problem with the vxr, xr5 doesnt suffer as much
Yep I saw that. I think he even went to the extent of saying the torque steer made the Astra handle like a “pig”, or to words of that effect.
My issue of WHEELS has arrived and you’ll be interested to see that they’re tipping a RRP of about $37,000 here in Australia. That’s around $2000 less than the basic Territory.

[cwhast]

the final version will be released at the 2006 Geneva motorshow in March. Production should start hopefully before June.

[Roger]

They are Daewoos through & through - GM had excellent cars but ditched in favour of cheapies.

Whether that works or not remains to be seen, but if they can keep the crapiness under wraps like they did with LS1's gobbling their oil or knocking like a JW - they can cope with a Holden badged Daewoo.....

Don't reckon P. Hanenberger would have made the same decisions - but like Kerry falling off the perch, change comes in strange ways (not too mention the fact that GM may disappear from the radar.....)

(yes Plato - I have spoken a lot of crap - but my peers will shoot me down in flames should I have said too much...)

[Martin_D]

Well said Roger....sound like an industry man to me!
Holden = Daewoo = Crap Cars = Trouble

[cwhast]

http://www.americancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060117.003
website includes pics and specs. looks like the 3.2 V6 will make 168kW/302Nm.
comes with crappy Ford Escape-style AWD system... hmmmmm:flip2:
you'll have to read it to understand. the Territory will hold this over the Craptiva. i hope they don't keep that name.

[HSVMAN]

Looks to be more of an Escape competitor than Terri anyway, remains to be seen. Certainly price/spec wise anyway.
Given the ill informed comments above, I would suggest those people do a little research on the Korean market and in particular, Daewoo reliability. Whilst the name and reputation has never done the marque any good (in this part of the world) the cars were always going to be seen and known as a cheaper alternative. Thats just what they are, with added safety features and better specs, maybe some better styling and a Holden badge. Still a Korean Daewoo yes.
The Poms used to laugh at their Monaro being made by a bunch of Aussies....

The AWD system is not designed for serious off roaders by any means. I wouldnt buy one if thats what I was looking for, however the market that will buy this car is the same market that has grown massively in the last 5 years. They will almost never drive off road but will want a car that has the traction and safety features along with being easy to drive, good visibility, stylish looking and well priced - not necessarily in that order.
If they do venture into little a bit of rough stuff it will handle that too :)

[FunkyPig]

They don't tell people the German-engineered runt is built in South Africa.
Despite being engineered in Germany, the Fiesta was actually designed in the UK at Ford's Dunton design studio.

I admit I am curious about a new product from Daewoo, but after all we've been told about how the new "GMDAT" is such a great new thing, I have a little hope, but 'please' GM don't disapoint us (and the world) with this car.

The Captiva is more important for GM globally than we probably realise... and (btw) its designed by the same man who did the Monaro, Mike Simcoe.

I truely hope is does well, while at the same time hope it doesn't hurt the (Australian) Territory at home too much.

[Marco]

Given the ill informed comments above, I would suggest those people do a little research on the Korean market and in particular, Daewoo reliability. Whilst the name and reputation has never done the marque any good (in this part of the world) the cars were always going to be seen and known as a cheaper alternative. Thats just what they are, with added safety features and better specs, maybe some better styling and a Holden badge. Still a Korean Daewoo yes.

For all the talk of Daewoo reliability, I know a few people who bought them - the cars are a few years old now, and they aren't complaining about their reliability at all.


The Poms used to laugh at their Monaro being made by a bunch of Aussies....

Which is pretty bloody funny when we consider the quality and reliability of products from the British car industry....Jaguar, British Leyland, need I go on?

[Danv8]

For all the talk of Daewoo reliability, I know a few people who bought them - the cars are a few years old now, and they aren't complaining about their reliability at all.



Which is pretty bloody funny when we consider the quality and reliability of products from the British car industry....Jaguar, British Leyland, need I go on?

Spot on there Marco.
:)

[VX11SS]

For all the talk of Daewoo reliability, I know a few people who bought them - the cars are a few years old now, and they aren't complaining about their reliability at all.



Which is pretty bloody funny when we consider the quality and reliability of products from the British car industry....Jaguar, British Leyland, need I go on?


I think that was HSVMANs point, its easy to point finger and criticise Holden (which I have done many a time) but the Daewoo knocking is getting old, are genuine "GM" that much better than Daewoo.
This is all about cst and lets face it how many of you have bought the euro Vectra.... ahhh yes not many coz they where the cost of a commodore wherent they.
As for the Barina I know 2 people that have owned the later shape Barina and both had reliability problems, bits falling off etc .

Cheers Jay

[FunkyPig]

I think the Daewoo reputation of the past is largely down to historically cheap pricing (and advertising the fact) and (I think anyway) a lower level of 'perceived quality' than European or Japanese cars. Not actual quality or reliability.

The new Barina and Viva Daewoos are the last of the 'real Daewoos', where the Captiva is the first 'GMDAT' Car, one thats designed to be sold as a Chev in Europe and other marques around the world, it should up Daewoo's reputation considerably.

[cwhast]

i was thinking, Holden have high hopes putting the Craptiva up against the Territory. so when it flops (and it probably will)... many will lose faith in the Holden brand. good one Denny. the Craptiva needs to be positioned against the Escape. bring in the TrailBlazer to take care of the Territory as it would run rings around it. i can see Holden making a big mistake here.

[FunkyPig]

the Craptiva needs to be positioned against the Escape. bring in the TrailBlazer to take care of the Territory
If it's the same size as Territory, with has similar performance, features, seating capacity, why on earth would you say that?
I don't understand all the negative talk about this car, I think it looks better than the Territory too, and until we can read about how it drives, lets all stop bagging it.

[cwhast]

ok i didnt mean for it to sound like i'm critisizing it, but its a closer match to the Escape in terms of engine size/power, dimensions and drivetrain. i just think it could hurt Holden's reputation as a whole.

you're right, it is better looking. from a certain angle the Territory can look like a bloated whale. but its a good car and i just hope this SUV can stand up against it.

[HSVMAN]

ok i didnt mean for it to sound like i'm critisizing it...

:confused:
You've given it a new name (Craptiva), bagged its running gear, identified it's place in the market and predicted its failure. No you are right that is'nt critisism at all :yup:
If all this turns out to be true, you have a bright future in the Motoring world and I will personally buy an autographed copy of your first book...

[seldo]

I continue to be amazed at the number of arm-chair experts (including some who should know better...) who have such incredible knowledge and experience that they know all about this car and how bad it is going to be, when they have yet to even sight one, let alone drive one, and the bloody thing hasn't even been produced yet....Talk about nonsense! Give me a break! :rolleyes: Since these opinions are based solely on its country of manufacture I guess these same people would also be bigots who would have the same strong racist views about all people form this country too. :bash: Just for your own credibility, at least wait until the effin thing has been built before you decide its fate...

[Smitty]

You mean Calais and not Cadillac? SVZ, I suppose that could be a run out model for next year.
..nope

not sure if this has been posted before
but here we go............

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--


COMMODORE SVZ SPECIAL EDITION



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--



Introducing the sports styled special edition Commodore SVZ sedan and
wagon. SVZ follows on from a very successful Lumina campaign and offers
more refined sports styling and outstanding value. With a huge amount of
extra value, it's sure to stimulate private retail sales and reinforce
Commodore's reputation for outstanding value and leadership.

Product Specifications

. 172kW Alloytec V6
. Four speed automatic transmission

Exterior

. 17" Alloy wheels (VYII Calais) (4)
. Berlina-style front fascia with fog lamps
. FE1.5 luxury sports suspension
. Rear Park Assist (sedan)
. Rear spoiler (sedan)
. Chrome exhaust extension
. Body coloured mirror scalps
. Black bezel headlamps
. Body colour dust deflector + roof rails (wagon)
. Roof racks (wagon)
. SVZ badge

Interior

. Anthracite sports seat trim with leather faced bolsters
. Air conditioning
. 6 disc in-dash CD player
. Rear power windows
. Leather-wrap steering wheel, automatic transmission selector and
handbrake grip

Colours

. Quicksilver metallic
. Odyssey metallic
. Shanghai mica
. Glaze mica
. Impulse mica
. Heron White (TBC)

Communication

Internet information and Dealer Web Centre images will be updated to
include Commodore SVZ.

SVZ will be supported by retail advertising

Brochures

A four page flyer will be available to order from March 27. The AD
number is AD12015. The flyer will be priced at $0.25c each plus GST.

Pricing

To be advised closer to start of sales. As with recent Lumina, the SVZ
will be priced to sell and represent outstanding value.

Allocation

Start of production scheduled as of March 27. Start of sales to follow
immediately. Dealers can place orders for April in the current order
cycle.


Julian Dunne
Senior Product Manager - Large Cars


(See attached file: SVZ Commodore.doc)


--------------------------------------------------------------

at least we know SVZ is getting used:dance:

am following up a piccie..will post tonite

cheers

[Marco]

Brochures

A four page flyer will be available to order from March 27. The AD
number is AD12015. The flyer will be priced at $0.25c each plus GST.


Dealers have to buy brochures from Holden? :confused:

[Grant]

Also recently registered:
"HSV MAGNETIC RIDE CONTROL" (and derivatives)
"H3"


Magnetic ride control sounds interesting :)

Edit:

Oops, this has already been discussed:
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=49986

[seldo]

Dealers have to buy brochures from Holden? :confused:
Many manufacturers do charge for their brochures. Personally i think it's short sighted because it usually means that the dealer is not as generous with them as they would be if they were free, and so maybe miss potential sales by not having brochures readily available. At the same time, I understand that they do cost a lot to produce, so they don't want them wasted... But I still think it is a case of the bean-counters winning over the marketers...

[monaroCountry1]

i was thinking, Holden have high hopes putting the Craptiva up against the Territory. so when it flops (and it probably will)... many will lose faith in the Holden brand. good one Denny. the Craptiva needs to be positioned against the Escape. bring in the TrailBlazer to take care of the Territory as it would run rings around it. i can see Holden making a big mistake here.

Many people discounted the new Barina as not good enough and not upto the standards of the old one. Many predicted the car to be a failure and were only too happy to point out that Holden were going down to the crappers. Well guess what, reading the newspapers yesterday it turn out that the Daewoo sourced Barina has sold more than double the previous and right up there with the Toyotas small car offering with more than 12K sold.

Holden has finally coppied Toyotas (and all the other Jap manuf) strategy of bringing out a very price competitive car. At the end of the day many people in the Barina price range isnt looking for high levels of lux or good performance but instead want cheap, basic run around.

So for all the doom sayers, the Holden baggers and the Jap lovers, look out Holdens coming back with a vengence..................and theyve got the weapons to seriously dent Toyotas sales lead esp in the small, medium and SUV market. THANKS TO DAEWOO.

[Nobby]

More rubbish cars on the road? Yeah, thanks Daewoo...

[HFV6]

Alright here we go . . . The XC Barina was an OK car, but not overly well built; speak to any garage owner who has had to deal with one with 100k on the clock and they'll attest to the poor build of the thing. At $13,990 Holden were losing money on every single sale and the dealer margin was very slender, and at that rate they didnt even sell that many. Clearly an unsustainable situation. Something had to be done and the obvious thing was to bring in the Daewoo Kalos, subtley reengineered. The car sells fully loaded for $12,990, there is a healthy dealer margin and Holden is still making money. And the most important thing is they can't supply enough to meet the overwhelming demand. Ultimately, the car isnt great, I've driven one and they are pretty average, but for $12,990 with Air, CD, PS etc, who cares? In the long run with the next generation product the quality, build and reliability will be much improved with the influence of GM and Holden and Holden will be in an even better place than they are now.

Now as for C100 (S3X), this is a totally different story. Every person I have spoken to who has see and been involved with the car has had nothing but praise for it. It is marginally smaller than Territory, is based on a FWD platform and has a 3.2 V6 but it is certainly much larger than the CRV segment. Daewoo and Holden have a competitor for that segment lined up in the future as previewed by the T2X concept. The C100 will have 7 seats and be very roomy, the quality is said to be fantastic especially for the average Korean car and it has a relative weight and therefore fuel consumption benefit due to its much lighter weight compared to Territory.

As has been said before, don't bag the car jut because it is from Korea. All of the facts that are known suggest the car will be a knockout. The pricing will be significantly lower than Territory for a comparable spec and there are many elements of the C100 which will be vastly superior. I just want to know why everyone hates Korean product so much? It's not 1990 and we aren't talking about shitbox 4 speed manual excels here, the game's moved on and Korea now leads the world in electronics and ship building, amongst many other things. Pull your heads out and have a look around because we now live in a global society, and we are all better off for it.

[RED R8]

The only car I know of that has had a reputation of bieng badly built mainly in the engine department gearbox and differential reliability is the mighty LS1's we all love so much yet you sh1tcan a vehicle that has never been tested and have allready handed the victory to the territory believe me on its release I will be taking note as my wifes 3 year old jeep is due for renewal if the new holden stacks up drives well and looks the part I will be an owner and the fact that its about 10k cheeper than a new jeep is a bonus.

[monaroCountry1]

I just want to know why everyone hates Korean product so much?

Because Holden sells them................If it was Toyota, Nissan or Mazda then everyone would praise it for its build quality, its refinement and its competitiveness. Forgetting about its underpowered engine, lack of style (excluding Mazda), grey everything, and plastic fantastic interior.

[Smitty]

..snip..

at least we know SVZ is getting used:dance:

am following up a piccie..will post tonite



piccie....!
as promised VZ SVZ
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Pics/VZ_SVZ.jpg

cheers

Smitty

[seano14]

Alright here we go . . . The XC Barina was an OK car, but not overly well built; speak to any garage owner who has had to deal with one with 100k on the clock and they'll attest to the poor build of the thing.

....

Now as for C100 (S3X), this is a totally different story. Every person I have spoken to who has see and been involved with the car has had nothing but praise for it.

hmm, that may be all good and well, but i can't help but notice you mention how barina's are with 100k on the clock, yet you're comparing/getting opinions on a newly developed/test mule C100? what about a C100 with 100k+ on the clock? i am sure lots of people had nothing but praise for the XC barina before it hit the showrooms

i guess we will just have to wait and see, but i dont hold much hope for this daewoo sourced wonder... hopefully it will be a reliable turd on wheels and it will be the saving grace, if a car is cheap enough and reliable people dont worry/care so much about quality..

[HFV6]

Point taken, however i did not link the XC Barina with the C100. XC Barina was considered worthy of the Holden badge because it was European, but the Daewoo-sourced Barina is not considered worthy because it was Korean. Realistically, before the last 2 series of Opel-sourced Barina, Holden always positioned its Barina as a budget light car sourced from Asia. Originally, the theme of Barina was 'value', and that is where Holden has returned. It would be difficult to find a car with more compelling value on sale today than Barina, especialy when compared to the old model.

The issue I have with C100 is separate; people are looking at all of the available information and assuming it will be a rubbish car simply because of the fact that it is from Korea. Quite frankly that's narrow-minded and bordering on racist.

The C100 is an extremely important car for GM worldwide with a Daewoo, Chevrolet, Opel, Saturn and Holden all being based off the car. Considering the significance of the platform, GM has taken the product very seriously meaning the product is more GM than Daewoo. Based on the available information, ignoring its country of origin the assumption should be that the car will do great things. Ultimately the final verdict should be left for the first drive and ownership experience.

[vxtreem]

I think the problem here is that the "Made in Korea" bit is frustrating for some people here, including myself and that Ford Australia can build it's own SUV so why can't Holden. These are peoples jobs G.M are giving away all because the hourly rate for labour is $3 and not $20. I work for a large whitegoods manufauturer and I'm seeing it happen in front of me now. It's not about quality anymore it's about profit margins and market share. Everybody is just a number.
I hope the s3x works for Holden I really do but I will always have in the back of my mind that this is not a "real" Holden, it's another cost cutting avenue for a corprate identity.

Sorry

[caspy]

s3x/captiva....benchmarked by chassis designers with x3...apparently it is pretty damn close. Astra HSV/VXR already has tunes and power upgrades developed in the UK, some via 888.

[monaroCountry1]

I think the problem here is that the "Made in Korea" bit is frustrating for some people here, including myself and that Ford Australia can build it's own SUV so why can't Holden. These are peoples jobs G.M are giving away all because the hourly rate for labour is $3 and not $20. I work for a large whitegoods manufauturer and I'm seeing it happen in front of me now. It's not about quality anymore it's about profit margins and market share. Everybody is just a number.

Unless you want Holden in financial trouble/bordering on bankruptcy then you have to let them find a competitive product at a competitive price. All other manufacturers have got their hands on a cheap car from a third world country and pass it off as quality product. Why cant Holden. Anyway theyve got their hands busy with the VE!!!!

[HFV6]

Sure, you might think that because this product is sourced from Daewoo it is not a real 'Holden'. If Holden had sourced a mid sized SUV from the US such as the Chevrolet Equinox, I'm sure that the backlash wouldn't be anything like what Holden are receiving for C100. The reallyt bizarre thing is the fascination people have with associating 'Korean' with crap. Its amazing that LG make some of the best white goods and plasma televisions in the world but when i recommend them to people they turn their noses up at them due to their national origin. Samsung leads the world in electronics technology such as flash memory but when you show people your LCD and its a Samsung they sneer because its not a Sony built in Japan or a Loewe from Europe. People need to get over their petty little issues and judge products on the facts.

Also an important factor is that technically GMDAT is a subsidiary of GM Holden Ltd., as Holden was the vehicle GM used to take the majority stake in Daewoo. So essentially C100 is probably more 'Holden' than any other product in the Holden range bar Commodore. Holden engineers developed it, Holden designers created it and Holden marketers and product planners produced it. So before you turn your nose up at this 'un-Australian, un-Holden' new car, take a look at the Astra, Vectra, Tigra, Rodeo and other internationally sourced models in the Holden range. The engine that this forum is named after is American and the transmission sitting behind it Mexican, but I don't see threads devoted to bagging those because they aren't 'Holdenish' or Australian made.

Certain countries are better at certain things. Its comparative advantage. Korea is outstanding when it comes to manufacturing things at a given price. We are good at digging things up from the ground. That's just the way it is. Everyone is better off when they focus on the things that they are best at and stick to them. The only reason the Australian automotive industry has been viable has been the massive subsidies and tariffs promoted by government to protect the industry. We are good at building Commodore, but to tell you the truth, Korea is probably much better at making C100.

[cwhast]

the engine this forum is named after is actually Canadian lol
sorry to point out the fact... how long have the 4-speed gearboxes been made in Mexico?

[HFV6]

Apologies, Candian it is, and the 6-speed Manual is Mexican, i believe the 4 speed auto is made in the US. Point still stands.

[cwhast]

isnt the C100 built on the same Theta platform as the Nox, so wouldn't it be the same car? car platforms confuse me sometimes

[Smitty]

I have to say that the sourcing does not maketh the product....

the EK Holden had an auto trans called a Hydramatic....NOT made in Australia
the first V8 (the 307) came from Chev and it had a Powerglide auto bolted
to it...not made in Australia. Arguably Holdens best ever muscle cars..the
HK/HT/HG GTS 350 Monaros got their best bits (engines, gearboxes and diffs)
from overseas. Commodores have had everything from A/C systems (Harrison)
to carbies (Varajets from Strasbourg and Quadrajets from Rochester) to spare wheel retaining straps (Opel) in them ..and that in no way makes them less of a Holden.

If the end product is successful as a seller ...who cares where the bits or the car came from

my 2c


cheers

[Ghia351]

If the end product is successful as a seller ...who cares where the bits or the car came from

my 2c
cheers
err..the Australian component suppliers.....

Sorry Smitty I couldn't resist.....and having worked in the Moorabbin area since before I could count a lot of these businesses/factories were suppliers many moons ago....

[Smitty]

err..the Australian component suppliers.....

Sorry Smitty I couldn't resist.....and having worked in the Moorabbin area since before I could count a lot of these businesses/factories were suppliers many moons ago....

aaaah yeah...many moons ago
Al, 20 years ago I would agree with you (remember I worked at Holdens buying stuff )
but today, courtesy of the current govt attitude on tariffs and the previous labor govt policies like the Button plan, our car makers AND the the component suppliers are exposed to the global economy ....and there is no going back from that.

As I see it, the trick is to keep the Australian vehicle manufacturers operations in business (and that will keep some of the component suppliers in business as well)
and
that necessitates flogging some lil' cheap imports (especially when oil prices are like they atm)



cheers

[f1ferrari]

My Missus wants a Outlander but I am hanging out for the Captiva and then will be trying hard to convince her to get one.....

:)

[RED R8]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Dazvyss/carshow012.jpg


Some pics from the perth car show must say twas very nice in the flesh.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Dazvyss/carshow011.jpg