Traction Control T/C Switch Power Loss When Activated

[SolsMonaro]

Hi guys,
I have only owned my V2 Series III 2004 6 speed manual 245Kw Monaro for about 2 months now. The reason for me writing this thread is that I have a concern regarding the Traction Control T/C switch.

What I have found with the switch being activated I seem to loose engine performance up high in the rev range about 3500 rpm. You cant notice any lack of power whilst driving normaly its only when you feel like giving it a boot full going up through the gears.

With this switch not activated the engine seems to be alot more responsive and the power is right through the rev range until redline.

I am just curious if anyone else has had this same poor engine responce / power loss with this traction control being activated. I have done a little reading on this T/C switch and it should only come into affect when the rear wheels start to loose traction. It then should decrease engine horsepower and apply breaking force to the wheel that is slipping.

Hope to hear your experiences / thoughts / loss of power using this T/C control switch and maybe someone else is having the same problem like me or it might be just me !

Thankyou for your time.

Kind regards Sol.............

PS: Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.................:)

[OLS108]

yeah , the TC reduces timming to stop you breaking traction, or at a last resort it lightly applys the Brake , Most here simply switch trac of in normal Dry weather.

[pacer265]

What I have found with the switch being activated I seem to loose engine performance up high in the rev range about 3500 rpm.

Its at this point you've busted traction, the rear wheels are chirping and the poor T/C is doing its best to keep the LS1 under control......:lol:

I wish! At least in mine it would nice if that happened ;)

I don't have one scrap evidence to prove it makes a difference, but I've been turning it off in the dry. My simpleton logic being if nothing is watching for traction loss, then nothing can interfere with the engine performance.

My 2c

[Dacious]

What you've noticed is entirely correct, and so is the explanation above.

Although you can't 'feel' it, one or other wheel is breaking traction slightly probably over bumps or shiny bitumen - and the T/C is pulling timing and/or backing off the throttle on a later model to stop it.

Normally you wouldn't notice in a straight line, but you might do if going on a join or change in bitumen, or through a dip or over a crest.

Most people turn off T/C in the dry, but you have to be careful if you do. Go round a slippery offcamber roundabout with too much throttle, loose stones or hit a patch of wet road or diesel, and the car can catch you out quicksmart with traction off.

You will also notice your car will be slower off the line with it on. And with it off all the time, you'll wear rear tyres faster. :D

[muayyadf1]

2004 models and below have this problem because of the low tech T/C system (motor backs off the gas pedal) whereas the latest models which have drive by wire throttle are much better than the previouse model and more complicated (fully electronic) :)

[dunny]

2004 models and below have this problem because of the low tech T/C system (motor backs off the gas pedal) whereas the latest models which have drive by wire throttle are much better than the previouse model and more complicated (fully electronic) :)

When I got my VX SS, I thought the same. "Gee what a cheap version of traction control, all it does is push the accelerator off. But working as a Auto Electrician I was sent on a Holden course, and found out this was not the case.

The pressure you feel on the throttle is just the throttle relaxer motor. It is fitted to the 8's to give the driver an indication through the pedal that traction has been lost.

It still backs off the timing, fuel and can brake an individual wheel if required. You can actually disable the throttle relaxer and the traction will still work, but you can't just unplug the wiring as it sets a fault and switches it off.

The V6's of the same era didn't even have the throttle relaxer.

[pah]

So how do we turn off the throttle relaxer without setting off an error code?


PAH

[SV8VY]

So how do we turn off the throttle relaxer without setting off an error code?


PAHJust press the button everytime you start the engine.
Mine is a habbit now wet or dry I hate it.
Traction control and abs are for people that cant control the car.

[muayyadf1]

When I got my VX SS, I thought the same. "Gee what a cheap version of traction control, all it does is push the accelerator off. But working as a Auto Electrician I was sent on a Holden course, and found out this was not the case.

The pressure you feel on the throttle is just the throttle relaxer motor. It is fitted to the 8's to give the driver an indication through the pedal that traction has been lost.

It still backs off the timing, fuel and can brake an individual wheel if required. You can actually disable the throttle relaxer and the traction will still work, but you can't just unplug the wiring as it sets a fault and switches it off.

The V6's of the same era didn't even have the throttle relaxer.


Good info here.

thanks;)

[Marco]

Just press the button everytime you start the engine.
Mine is a habbit now wet or dry I hate it.
Traction control and abs are for people that cant control the car.

I'd be very surprised if many people could out-brake ABS when it came to the crunch (or to avoid things ending with a crunch...)

Traction control in my view is a very good thing (and good that you can at least switch it off in Commodores if you don't like it), but ESP is an even better thing.

[lucas]

Traction control and abs are for people that cant control the car.
I agree with the traction control comment, but you'd have to be a lunatic to go pulling the ABS fuse!

[SolsMonaro]

Hi
Thanks heaps for your input into my question Guys, Glad to hear its not my mind playing tricks and it is the Traction Control decreasing power before something might go wrong. In regards to decreasing power before something might go wrong read a little story about the Ferrari's I watched Monday night.

Not sure if you guys watch a show on SBS on Monday nights called Top Gear. This show has replaced another great show called Myth Busters. They had the Older F40 Ferrari and the new F60 Ferrari. Both cars where taken through their paces and the Host of the Top Gear show said he would have the older F40 anyday over the new F60. The reason for him saying this is that although the F60 is alot faster car it just uses so many engine control managment systems so you cant have fun in it. Like RIGHT cant have fun in a F60 !!!! Hard to beleive I know !!!! You cant give it full throttle when you have 16 degrees of steering for 1 and so many other variables come into play to keep it from getting all crossed up. Although the F60 now has the fastest lap time of there tested track.

So saying this what are the Cars in the future going to be like ??? Most likely very boring and sedate so enjoy the fun while we can and while we still have switches we can turn off I say.

Thanks again Guys and all the best for Christmas and a Happy New year to all.

Kind regards Sol.................

[Dacious]

A good driver on a good surface in the dry in a straight line can outbrake ABS. ABS uses an algorythm (sp?) to back the picks off. Where ABS shines is in unneven conditions or unpredictable surfaces. If you can hold the brakes on the verge of lockup you can beat ABS.

Like cruise control going up a hill where you lose speed and the CC has to apply more throttle to recover compared to a driver anticipating and increasing speed slightly to coast up on less throttle, ABS can only react to what is already happening, backing off a locking brake and then reapplying when it is turning. Whereas the driver, if in control, can back off the pedal slightly on less-than perfect surfaces. ABS is also a compromise between too much brake on dirt and not enough on sticky dry bitumen.

Most people have nowhere near the skills to do this, though, and often quickly applying the brakes in an emergency is a jump on the pedal affair - and ABS and EBD is good insurance. Interestingly, ABS at first attracted a higher insurance premium in Germany. People felt safer with it and so drove faster and took more risks, so had more, and more serious prangs.

[dunny]

So how do we turn off the throttle relaxer without setting off an error code?

PAH

Our trainer did something with Tech 2. It was so long ago now that I can't remember.

There are probably other ways of doing it but I've never looked into it. I don't think you can just remove the cable either as your accelerator cable goes to the throttle relaxer and then to the butterfly.

Here is a bit of an extract on how traction control works from the Holden Training Manual for anyone interested:

The ABS-ETC module monitors both front and rear wheel speeds through the wheel sensors.

If at any time during acceleration the ABC-ETC module detects drive wheel slip, it will request on the Torque Request (MMR) circuit the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) to bring excess torque into a specific range. This is accomplished via two high speed Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) circuits between the ABS/ETC module and the PCM. The PCM will then adjust spark firing and air/fuel ratio, and also shutting off injectors if necessary, and report the modified torque value on the Torque Achieved (MMI) circuit back to the ABS/ETC module. The ABS/ETC module also requests the PCM to restrict transmission downshifting and the throttle relaxer module to reduce throttle opening to provide feedback to the driver.

Simultaneous with engine torque management, the ABS/ETC module will activate the ABS isolation valves, turn on the ABS punp motor and supply brake pressure to the over spinning wheel(s).

[SV8VY]

I agree with the traction control comment, but you'd have to be a lunatic to go pulling the ABS fuse!
Try pulling up on a dirt road with ABS to avoid an accident and you will see what I mean.
Atleast with it off you can flick the car and hit something like a cow with the arse end of the car and not get hurt.
The other day I was going down a slight hill and it was a bitchumen road with some slight bumps.I was only going about 40 and someone cut accross a roundabout the wrong way.I pressed the brakes only halve way and it took ages to stop because of the little bumps on the road. and the ABS going mad .Lucky it lets you swerve.
If I was in control Im sure I could have stopped quicker.

[dunny]

Just press the button everytime you start the engine.
Mine is a habbit now wet or dry I hate it.
Traction control and abs are for people that cant control the car.

He is talking about disabling the throttle relaxer only, not turning off the traction control alltogether.

[bermudablue]

just turn it off and drive the damn thing . first thing i do when i juimp in my car an fire up is turn it off.i dont know why its even there to begin with!

[tbearz]

Hi
Thanks heaps for your input into my question Guys, Glad to hear its not my mind playing tricks and it is the Traction Control decreasing power before something might go wrong. In regards to decreasing power before something might go wrong read a little story about the Ferrari's I watched Monday night.

Not sure if you guys watch a show on SBS on Monday nights called Top Gear. This show has replaced another great show called Myth Busters. They had the Older F40 Ferrari and the new F60 Ferrari. Both cars where taken through their paces and the Host of the Top Gear show said he would have the older F40 anyday over the new F60. The reason for him saying this is that although the F60 is alot faster car it just uses so many engine control managment systems so you cant have fun in it. Like RIGHT cant have fun in a F60 !!!! Hard to beleive I know !!!! You cant give it full throttle when you have 16 degrees of steering for 1 and so many other variables come into play to keep it from getting all crossed up. Although the F60 now has the fastest lap time of there tested track.

So saying this what are the Cars in the future going to be like ??? Most likely very boring and sedate so enjoy the fun while we can and while we still have switches we can turn off I say.

Thanks again Guys and all the best for Christmas and a Happy New year to all.

Kind regards Sol.................

Yeah the enzo aint at the top of the list anymore got beaten 2-3 times by few other things

[OLS108]

I know we all sit here and say TC is for people who cant drive cars :rolleyes: i wouldnt like to be driving some of the cars from this Fourm with Trac off in the wet... no matter how good i claim to be;)

[RoarPower]

So none of you are game to come ride with me in the Ute???:lol: :lol: :lol:
They dont give us traction on these things (not even an option - but i think the VZ Maloo does)

Why are there more Monaros and sedans wrapped around poles and trees than utes??? Oh yeah nagging backseat drivers:lol: :booty: :lol:

My LSD has been my best friend, even in the wet my ute is way safer/controllable than my last car - VTII V6 Berlina (no trac in that model) with single spinner diff... that thing was dangerous in the wet.

Overall ABS is a good thing, but agreed, try and hit the picks on a loose sandy gravel road and the thing doesnt even try to stop, where if you could lock it up the tires would dig into the gravel and stop 20 times quicker.

On ice nothing but pure arse will save you with or without abs.

[HSV Listy]

Thread dig from hell but could not find the same issue as mine.
The vx gts is having intermittent issues with tc. With it on it cuts power off about 5k pushing against the foot. Never done this before like that. So I turn tc off and same issue. Checked tc light is on etc
Has anyone ever heard of the throttle relaxer failing causing the above.
Only does it every now and then which makes it hard to tell. When it all works no issues and revs to 7k with tc on or off no worries.
What hazards are there pulling the power cable to the throttle relaxer as I guess it would be tied into safety in the tune working with tc
I don't care about tc but this is happening with tc on and off

[HSV Listy]

Just to close out the thread, changed the throttle relaxer and no issues since. Guess must of been faulty or sticky
Rare fault and and far as I have read on the net they never seem to fail