Summernats HP Heros Results.

[2ofdem]

So anyone heard anything??

[ORIGINL]

you might have to wait until the event has started

[LS1_charger]

Yeah they've started warm up i was told, there was a LC torana that made 1300hp with NOS and made 100hp on idle! lol! so wish i was there!

[Hammer]

any more updates ...?

[raptorsc]

Hammer

Seems we look in the same places :burnout:

Keen to know as well, no one has fully covered the results from all classes

[Goanna]

TRYHRD Hit 1230RWHP to be top qualifier. Word is, there not even trying yet! tommorow should be Really good!, the talk is 2000!!
This is a VX Clubsport which alot of people would have heard about!
a natually aspirated capri pulled just over 1000RWHP!!!! thats pretty nuts!

[OLS108]

TRYHRD Hit 1230RWHP to be top qualifier. Word is, there not even trying yet! tommorow should be Really good!, the talk is 2000!!
This is a VX Clubsport which alot of people would have heard about!
a natually aspirated capri pulled just over 1000RWHP!!!! thats pretty nuts!
I also heard that it was on Pretty low boost for the Qualifing Run:errr:

[HazzaHSV]

Yeah it made over 900 rwhp without the NOS and then switched on the NOS and ran 1303. 600 ci big block chev naturally aspirated. The Capri was also a 600 ci naturally aspirated and was the first NA ever to crack 1000 rwhp (1004).

http://users.tpg.com.au/hazzahsv/torana.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/hazzahsv/torana1.jpg

It was a pretty good effort by the Rodeo V6 Turbo cracking over 650 rwhp!!

Its a damn shame the bloody turn for the worse happened after the supercruise tonight. CAPA production ute losing it and putting it through the wire fence into some spectators while doing exhibition drifting. :shock: :( Hope the damn press don't beat it up and get the Summernats in trouble for next year.


Yeah they've started warm up i was told, there was a LC torana that made 1300hp with NOS and made 100hp on idle! lol! so wish i was there!

[chilly]

I also heard that it was on Pretty low boost for the Qualifing Run:errr:

there ya go again john:lol:
hearing things
thats why my helmet dosent cover my ears:flip2:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Martin_D]

I also heard that it was on Pretty low boost for the Qualifing Run:errr:

Yes.....34psi of boost...I suppose its all what you consider or hear to be 'low' :eyes: :eyes:

[LX346]

Yes.....34psi of boost...I suppose its all what you consider or hear to be 'low' :eyes: :eyes:
Hate to see high boost. Must be one heck of a street driver.

[awddynotodd]

Looks like the Weather Station they were using is still "broken", as the Torana Graph shows the Barometric Pressure as 940mb, whereas according to the weather bureau the Barometric Pressure in Canberra on friday had a low of 1013mb and a high of 1020mb.

Ah well, only means the power figure is 10% higher than it actually is.

I hope the dyno guys weren't intentionally making the figures higher.:slap:

[ShanghaiVZ]

The suspense is killing me!, who took the trophy home???

[KeenGolfer]

There are a few cars off this forum that would be interesting to see what they ran, VX SS and TTVYSS?. They were both supposed to be pushing over 1000 rwhp, so should have been a good event this year.

[QIKMIK]

TRYHARD just went BANG. After making 1241rwhp on its second run, the third and final run ended with a massive bang, with a heap of flamage from underneath the bonnet, enough for Goanna to feel the heat in the back row of the grandstand. Still won the comp though.

Mick

[Chris5.7ltr]

TRYHARD just went BANG. After making 1241rwhp on its second run, the third and final run ended with a massive bang, with a heap of flamage from underneath the bonnet, enough for Goanna to feel the heat in the back row of the grandstand. Still won the comp though.

Mick
Good that he won but not good that it went bang, poor guys work so hard on that think they must be heart broken.:(

[OLS108]

Yes.....34psi of boost...I suppose its all what you consider or hear to be 'low' :eyes: :eyes:
Yeah thats Low TUNA , Dont you know anyhting about Turbos:1peek:

[Ron]

TRYHARD just went BANG. After making 1241rwhp on its second run, the third and final run ended with a massive bang, with a heap of flamage from underneath the bonnet, enough for Goanna to feel the heat in the back row of the grandstand. Still won the comp though.

Mick

Must not have been too bad though ,as he participated in the supercruise that night.

You guys must have slept in the dyno shed to get a seat, it was standing room only most of the day

[SLE355]

Supersruise was last night, it went bang today i think?

Wonder what actually went wrong with it.

[spiv]

TRYHARD just went BANG. After making 1241rwhp on its second run, the third and final run ended with a massive bang, with a heap of flamage from underneath the bonnet, enough for Goanna to feel the heat in the back row of the grandstand. Still won the comp though.

Mick

I swear that that car is cursed, after seeing all the pushrods it bent at the Melbourne AME on Saturday and the giant thrash by their crew to get it fixed for the Sunday dyno comp, I feel sorry for 'em all.

[highlander_69r]

defgotta feel for that guy for sure big $ spent and so much expected of it but hope it can be fixed for his sake id be spewin 4 sure:doh:

[pagey]

each to their own.. TRYHRD does nothing for me.. much prefer to see a well engineered streeter going round.. smthn that can toddle off to the shops to pick up the milk in the morn and blow away fully sick habibs in the evening. :D

[RIDE:42]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Buckienaked/Summernats%202006/nats33.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Buckienaked/Summernats%202006/nats46.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Buckienaked/Summernats%202006/nats50.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Buckienaked/Summernats%202006/nats29.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Buckienaked/Summernats%202006/nats16.jpg

[Sonnymad]

each to their own.. TRYHRD does nothing for me.. much prefer to see a well engineered streeter going round.. smthn that can toddle off to the shops to pick up the milk in the morn and blow away fully sick habibs in the evening. :D

ditto ;)

regards sonny

[doogal]

what was the deal with sc with the tryhrd cover that had 2000rwhp plastered all over it? is that what they were expecting or just some figure sc thought up? i spose we wont know if they got to show the full potential of the car untill we find out what happened i guess.

[RedVYIISS]

Results are up:

http://www.summernats.com.au/results_horsepwr2006.htm

Horsepower Hero (Highest Overall Horsepower)

Horsepower Hero 2nd Runner Up - 899.5 hp 705 GARRY POPE

GOLD 2000 HOLDEN COMMODORE SEDAN MENAI NSW

Horsepower Hero 1st Runner Up - 1007.8 hp 767 TRICK MANSWETO

TIGER GOLD 1969 FORD CAPRI SEDAN PROSPECT NSW

Horsepower Hero Overall Winner - 1236.9 hp 320 CRAIG MUNRO

BERMA BLUE 2000 HOLDEN CLUBSPORT SEDAN FAIRFIELD VIC


Was Eddy Tassone not there trhis year?

[Goanna]

Yeah, i have to agree as well about TRYHRD. It gets trucked in and out, they stuff around for so long to get it to run and then its only doing numbers that have already been done, last years winner went higher, Eddie Tassiony or something in the blue VH and the record at the nats was 2 years ago. What was great to watch was the light blue Torana, Street Registered, Natually Asprirated and drives it on the Street, It pulled an Easy 900HP at the Rears, and does a 7 second Pass!, That is what you want to see!!!

It went bang good though, i really hope someone had video of it, i owuld like to see it again. the heat was pretty intense, im sure its a full rewire under the hood or maybe not!

[Uncle Tone]

Yeah, i have to agree as well about TRYHRD. It gets trucked in and out, they stuff around for so long to get it to run

Who tunes that car?

[RhysB]

TRYHARD just went BANG. After making 1241rwhp on its second run, the third and final run ended with a massive bang, with a heap of flamage from underneath the bonnet, enough for Goanna to feel the heat in the back row of the grandstand. Still won the comp though.

Mick

Thats a shame. It sounded the goods on the Saturday morning. I thought it may of gone 1500hp.
Gary Popes BLO402 went good on Saturday too, going 945hp.
Apparently TTVYSS shat the bed too.

[Gareth@Willall]

Who tunes that car?

HPF........

[Gareth@Willall]

Apparently TTVYSS shat the bed too.

Did it make it to the nats or did it have an 'issue' whilst tuning?

[Marco]

TRYHARD just went BANG. After making 1241rwhp on its second run, the third and final run ended with a massive bang, with a heap of flamage from underneath the bonnet, enough for Goanna to feel the heat in the back row of the grandstand. Still won the comp though.

Mick

I was sitting in the back row of the grandstand off to the right of the car and could feel the heat there too. It was sad, but spectacular - all is well, and then you see flames emerge from the edges of the bonnet and it quickly became one hell of an inferno. Put out very quickly by the firies though. Saw it being trucked through Canberra on the way home and the only visible damage was that some of the paint on the front guard had peeled off.

[seracing]

Maybe He Should Change The Name Of The Car.

[QIKMIK]

Maybe He Should Change The Name Of The Car.He did. They changed it from TRYHRD to NO PLATES after putting a number plate screw through the radiator when putting the TRYHRD plates on it (or so the story went).

Mick

[Goanna]

Yeah, I think he Tried just a little too hard, Maybe he should rename in Grenade!!!

[seracing]

you have to admit so far the combo is a flop .But in saying that only the bloke that owns it and the guys working on the car know the real story behined why the car "only" made 1200 odd hp (f$%k me were getting harsh)
maybe they did have problems befor the event but did not want to let people down and had a crack, who knows maybe they dont know why either.At the end of the day you have got to give the bloke credit for having the balls to build the car and have a crack.

[HRT.2FAST]

eddie tassone made his 1338?? on 45psi so at 35 psi- 1236 there certainly in the pissing comp :1peek:

[VQST80]

A fuel leak was tryhards problem.

[2ofdem]

Yeah I agree on the bit harsh on TRYHRD the thing made 1200 odd RWHP and won the comp.

[cam502]

Craig Munro in the VX R 8 won the most power (overall) and the highest power from a turbo/supercharged car 1216hp! On his final run he had a fuel fire under the hood!!!!! Very spectacular. It looked very bad but once it was cleaned up the car started!

[RAT LS1]

Some of you blokes are pathetic. Knocking a bloke for building a car to his likings. What have the knockers in this thread ever done to make an effort on their cars????? Then you get a sneaky comment on who the tuner was, another kick in the guts. Afer all this is a HOLDEN fourm I thought. Lets get back to recognising the blood and sweat these guys put into making these rides what they are.
Anyway well done to all who particiapted and had success.

[V8torana]

what was the deal with sc with the tryhrd cover that had 2000rwhp plastered all over it? is that what they were expecting or just some figure sc thought up?

The 2000+rwhp quote was from what I read was the total off all the cars that were featured, not just TRYHRD.

[TTVYSS]

Did it make it to the nats or did it have an 'issue' whilst tuning?


No didnt make it ...... on my seocnd run with an exrtremely mild tune approaching the the 850 at the wheels the heads lifted... stretched the heads bolts so no luck this time friends. Its becoming a very coming problem but6 we have new ideas for next time rounds!

[Justice R8]

Some of you blokes are pathetic. Knocking a bloke for building a car to his likings. What have the knockers in this thread ever done to make an effort on their cars????? Then you get a sneaky comment on who the tuner was, another kick in the guts. Afer all this is a HOLDEN fourm I thought. Lets get back to recognising the blood and sweat these guys put into making these rides what they are.
Anyway well done to all who particiapted and had success.

Have to agree here. I think it is a great effort what tryhard has done as well as grumpy old man VX SS. For the knockers go and try building something first and then come back and knock those that are out there doing it. Start with making 500 n/a rwhp and then go onto some of the turbo and blown applications and see what it takes and what it cost to make these huge numbers. My blown 383 made 675rwhp with a t-trim. Total setup approx 45k and it wasnt all that hard to do. When you move into the next league it is very expensive and not many have made it there without problems along the way.

Without people like tryhard, VX SS, TTVYSS, Tuna (Capa), Sam etc pushing the boundries on new developments, we would all still be excited about making 400rwhp from blown cars 3 years ago. It seems that people think of 1000rwhp is something that is so easy and cheap. Let me tell you it is not and can be very expensive when it goes bang. This is the first time an LS1 has got 1st and 3rd at the Summernats and shows that there is some real progress being made with these relatively new engines

Once again, well done to the boys that went well. Try hard and VX SS and the boys at The Horsepower factory. TTVYSS and G&D, well done on your project too. Shame about the problems but that is part and parcel of the HP chasing game. No doubt it will get sorted and hit the rollers again soon.

Well done all
Darren

PS How did all the NA ls1's go?

[Sidewindr]

No didnt make it ...... on my seocnd run with an exrtremely mild tune approaching the the 850 at the wheels the heads lifted... stretched the heads bolts so no luck this time friends. Its becoming a very coming problem but6 we have new ideas for next time rounds!
:shock: What head studs did you have in the engine? Got me worried my ARP's will stretch once I finally get my car sorted out.

[TTVYSS]

:shock: What head studs did you have in the engine? Got me worried my ARP's will stretch once I finally get my car sorted out.

Its happening alot ........... once you start going 800 at the rear then you're in the zone my friend. It happened to try hard at 800 at the rear about 4 weeks ago... so he obviously got it sorted but I bet this is what let go on his final run on Sunday.

[Oldskoolpushrod]

TRYHRD lifted the heads off the block a few years back when we were there.

Surely someone has a fix for this by now?

[Sidewindr]

Its happening alot ........... once you start going 800 at the rear then you're in the zone my friend. It happened to try hard at 800 at the rear about 4 weeks ago... so he obviously got it sorted but I bet this is what let go on his final run on Sunday.

Apparently he had a fuel leak so I don't think he had head problems, he lifted the heads when it was s/c 2 years ago at summernats but I believe that was with standard head bolts. Which ARP head studs do you have in your car? I have the big high pressure ones so I would hope that if I make 800-900hp @ the engine it should be ok.

[monarocv8r]

Craig Munro in the VX R 8 won the most power (overall) and the highest power from a turbo/supercharged car 1216hp! On his final run he had a fuel fire under the hood!!!!! Very spectacular. It looked very bad but once it was cleaned up the car started!

yeah i thaught it was a fuel leak cause that fire wasnt showing any signs of stopping but i didnt expect to see flames that hgh that quick... looked very awsome and good seeing power figures that high froma late model commodore.... even tho it isnt a LS block.

[TTVYSS]

Apparently he had a fuel leak so I don't think he had head problems, he lifted the heads when it was s/c 2 years ago at summernats but I believe that was with standard head bolts. Which ARP head studs do you have in your car? I have the big high pressure ones so I would hope that if I make 800-900hp @ the engine it should be ok.

I have the same 180psi ARP head bolts! Its happenend to 9 others apparently.... so its a matter of luck in a way but sooner or later they will go. They are only 10ml deep! Thats the problem.... one needs to go 1/2 inch or 13 mls to try to resolve the problem!

[VX SS]

Have to agree here. I think it is a great effort what tryhard has done as well as grumpy old man VX SS. For the knockers go and try building something first and then come back and knock those that are out there doing it. Start with making 500 n/a rwhp and then go onto some of the turbo and blown applications and see what it takes and what it cost to make these huge numbers. My blown 383 made 675rwhp with a t-trim. Total setup approx 45k and it wasnt all that hard to do. When you move into the next league it is very expensive and not many have made it there without problems along the way.

Without people like tryhard, VX SS, TTVYSS, Tuna (Capa), Sam etc pushing the boundries on new developments, we would all still be excited about making 400rwhp from blown cars 3 years ago. It seems that people think of 1000rwhp is something that is so easy and cheap. Let me tell you it is not and can be very expensive when it goes bang. This is the first time an LS1 has got 1st and 3rd at the Summernats and shows that there is some real progress being made with these relatively new engines

Once again, well done to the boys that went well. Try hard and VX SS and the boys at The Horsepower factory. TTVYSS and G&D, well done on your project too. Shame about the problems but that is part and parcel of the HP chasing game. No doubt it will get sorted and hit the rollers again soon.

Well done all
Darren

PS How did all the NA ls1's go?

Well said Darren and thanks for the support

I might say its easy to sit back on the keyboard and have a say why dont you blokes have a go yourselves. I dont see many above out there trying to produce this type power on pump gas. I also notice the sponser that say's the least produces the most results.

HPF and Rob Vickery rock, commitment commitment.

Where are the rest of the who were coming. i would query the commitment.

This is what HPF had to do to be there for there clients.

Between boxing day and Jan 5th

My car had the heads removed twice and replaced twice, we did two camshaft changes. We exploded the 6 speed box and replaced it on the friday

Craigs car detonated the motor after a fuel pump fuse went at full noise on Friday night. Lost 3 pistons and had to resleeve the block, these are custom pistons they had them made on Tuesday a big thanks to SPS the block was finished machining at 3 pm wednesday Rob and George worked to 5 pm Thursday to have it back together. We ran mine up at midnight that night and threw a belt took the thermostat housing off.

We left Melbourne 6pm Thursday Rob and George slept I drove we got to Canberra at 4am Friday after a blown tyre at Albury

I pulled 945RWHP first run and chucked the belt we fixed that and had another go and broke 4 pushrods.We fixed that and still qualified.

I see others saying what they will do but HPF did it and the results are in

1st and 2nd Small Block turbo and Blown class Summernats 19

1st and 3rd Horsepower Heros

Technically the second place car was allowed to rev to 8800 rpm when the limit was set at 7000 rpm as per the rule book.

First time ever LS1 engined cars first and second at Summernats.


A big thanks to Rob at HPF and to George and Danny we couldnt do it without you.

[MattJ]

Great post Darren and Rat LS1!!

Most people have no idea how hard it is to make these production blocks and cylinder heads deal with 3 to 4 times the amount of power they were designed to submit in 1998. Its very easy to knock people for attempting to do it, but with out guys like these, the aftermarket will stagnate and get boring.

Tryhrd is a mechanical masterpiece and Craig deserves to win the Summernats after the road he has traveled, you will not meet a nicer bloke. I was devastated when i heard it caught fire but glad to hear it was mainly superficial.

To compare this years Horsepower hero's with the last few years is folly, the only way Eddy Tassone's car made that much power was by boost spiking. Boost spiking has been outlawed and the figures you see this year are real. I take nothing away from Eddy Tassone's achievements.

Tryhrd has always had ARP head studs and these types of engines have head lifting issues way way more than you know both here and in the states. But that is par for the course when you play HUGE power.

Sidey, 800 - 900 flywheel is a reasonably safe level.

[spiv]

To achieve the results that HPF have achieved with taking out top honours at the horsepoewer heroes is a truely monumental result. The commitement in both effort and $$$ is huge and few are prepared to go as far as these guys have. I know in my case with a "measly" 430 rwhp that the last six months have been a testing period with little glitches constantly cropping up that require time and effort to properly solve. We should be thankful that we have such resources as our sponsors workshops who are prepared to push the boundaries to help us acghieve our dreams and aspirations:cheers:

[Oldskoolpushrod]

first workshop to find a cure for head stud failure is going to be sitting on a goldmine :D

for those of us who dont know that much about the car formerly known as TRYHRD, its a holden block isnt it? what cubic capacity?

[VX SS]

first workshop to find a cure for head stud failure is going to be sitting on a goldmine :D

for those of us who dont know that much about the car formerly known as TRYHRD, its a holden block isnt it? what cubic capacity?

Its a LS1 based 6 litre iron block 402 ci same as mine except craig uses C5R heads.

[Hammer]

i rekon a round of :beer: goes out to the fulllas who did their car makes proud :P

well done. expensive games these ones ey.....

[Sidewindr]

Great post Darren and Rat LS1!!

Most people have no idea how hard it is to make these production blocks and cylinder heads deal with 3 to 4 times the amount of power they were designed to submit in 1998. Its very easy to knock people for attempting to do it, but with out guys like these, the aftermarket will stagnate and get boring.

Tryhrd is a mechanical masterpiece and Craig deserves to win the Summernats after the road he has traveled, you will not meet a nicer bloke. I was devastated when i heard it caught fire but glad to hear it was mainly superficial.

To compare this years Horsepower hero's with the last few years is folly, the only way Eddy Tassone's car made that much power was by boost spiking. Boost spiking has been outlawed and the figures you see this year are real. I take nothing away from Eddy Tassone's achievements.

Tryhrd has always had ARP head studs and these types of engines have head lifting issues way way more than you know both here and in the states. But that is par for the course when you play HUGE power.

Sidey, 800 - 900 flywheel is a reasonably safe level.

I completley agree with the sentiments, I know first hand it's a long hard road (especially when you try and do it ya self hehe :)) and hats off to those that get in amongst it and have a go.

Matt: Phew! I'm not chasing the kind of HP these head lifters are making but it's still going to have some poke hehe and it's a relief to hear that about the studs :D

Just out of interest is it the studs that stretch or is it the thread in the block or does the aly head compress under the head stud bolts???

[the big fist]

first workshop to find a cure for head stud failure is going to be sitting on a goldmine :D

for those of us who dont know that much about the car formerly known as TRYHRD, its a holden block isnt it? what cubic capacity?

what exactly happens during head stud failure ?
the bolt shears? stretchs?
Does anyone know what material and/or grade these are made from ?
Has anyone ever tried to machine up a set from stronger material or does everyone just rely on off the shelf parts ?

[VTSSDUDE]

Crikey's 1000+rwhp. That's bloody insane. :shock:
I am happy with my VT SS GenIII and it's stock.
I have to say congratulations to everyone who participated in the Horse Power Heroes. I can't imagine how much hard work and effort you guys must put into your prides and joy. I was at the Summernats last year watching the Yellow VH Commodore station wagon that had a twin turboed V8 in it. It was cool. Not quite sure if he just got over the 1000 rwhp bracket or not.
I just sit there and dream on what it would be like to have a car with that much power. Maybe one day. :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Jim :cool:

[VX SS]

what exactly happens during head stud failure ?
the bolt shears? stretchs?
Does anyone know what material and/or grade these are made from ?
Has anyone ever tried to machine up a set from stronger material or does everyone just rely on off the shelf parts ?

There is nothing paticularly wrong with the heads studs, there are several other factors which come into play.

This is more a boost issue that impacts on certain design inadequacies. However it is considered that any thing up to 15psi boost will not cause issueswith heads lifting.

[Oldskoolpushrod]

what exactly happens during head stud failure ?
the bolt shears? stretchs?
Does anyone know what material and/or grade these are made from ?
Has anyone ever tried to machine up a set from stronger material or does everyone just rely on off the shelf parts ?


i would ASSUME that it would be like blowing a head gasket i.e. oil and water mix? i.e. is that how you tell its happened or can you hear a difference in engine note, or see power drop off?

[MattJ]

i would ASSUME that it would be like blowing a head gasket i.e. oil and water mix? i.e. is that how you tell its happened or can you hear a difference in engine note, or see power drop off?

We have seen two different types of failures, one involved leakage of cylinder pressure out of the side between the head and block, this did not involve pressurizing the cooling system but made a fluttering sound on boost, the second type (on TTVYSS) was a massive leakage of cylinder pressure into the cooling system and a equally massive venting of coolant out of the radiator cap pressure relief valve.

I only run 15 psi of boost on my car (as does Glenn), it make's enough power to kill tyres at just about any speed... thats enough for a road car.

[mrG]

:) thanx to all for their kind words about tryhrd the car was turning the tyres on the dyno when it did its last two runs so im sure there is allot left in her. well done craig and and dont worry she can handle allot more than a small fire.

[HRT.2FAST]

We have seen two different types of failures, one involved leakage of cylinder pressure out of the side between the head and block, this did not involve pressurizing the cooling system but made a fluttering sound on boost, the second type (on TTVYSS) was a massive leakage of cylinder pressure into the cooling system and a equally massive venting of coolant out of the radiator cap pressure relief valve.

I only run 15 psi of boost on my car (as does Glenn), it make's enough power to kill tyres at just about any speed... thats enough for a road car.


are the blocks o ringed ,heads a reciever groove and copper head gaskets?

[MattJ]

are the blocks o ringed ,heads a reciever groove and copper head gaskets?

Negative, TTVYSS was a race to get it done in time for the Summernats and if we were not limited by time the above would have allready be done. We took a chance and we lost. We will have the car back on the road for early Feb. The Fluttering head gasket vehicle was a job we diagnosed and repaired but did not originally build.

[jd biddle]

Negative, TTVYSS was a race to get it done in time for the Summernats and if we were not limited by time the above would have allready be done. We took a chance and we lost. We will have the car back on the road for early Feb. The Fluttering head gasket vehicle was a job we diagnosed and repaired but did not originally build.
Would love for you to keep us up to date on this car and its progress dean ps the cars awsoreome

[Ron]

Conratulations to Craig for the outright win and Gary for coming 2nd and Rob Vickery and his team from HPF for producing 2 awesome cars :thumbsup:

Also it a shame you couldnt have got TTVYSS going Matt but there is always next year.

When I was chatting with Rob Henty looking at his Monaro and yours( very stealthy looking) he said Ask Matt what happened to his down there

[Hammer]

theres actually a new kind of bolt torque method out these days where it actuall stretched the threads to the desired torque measurment. and screws it in:)

pretty nifty device rather than using a torque multiplier. mainly used for heavy mining equipment. (which i work on)

how torque is done is it's based on the lenth of the thread x tpi usually unless it's a specific tightness for a certain reason :)


good luck tryhard and all the others to get their cars even faster for 06 :)

[macca33]

what exactly happens during head stud failure ?
the bolt shears? stretchs?
Does anyone know what material and/or grade these are made from ?
Has anyone ever tried to machine up a set from stronger material or does everyone just rely on off the shelf parts ?


Bolt/stud failure is caused by too much force, either laterally, or along it's axis.

Initially it will stretch/distort, then it will, for want of a better word, break.

Generally, the area of weakest strength, the thread and thread root area, will be where the failure occurs.

These types of studs/bolts are not something you can just machine up out of strong material. They are forged from specific grade steel/alloy and then heat treated to achieve the high strength that is required.

I'm not too sure of the strength of head bolts/studs, but I would imagine that they would be at least grade 12.9 or higher.

I dunno if any bolt/stud manufacturers make them any stronger, so the next best thing would be a diameter increase.


That's all that I can remember from when I was a hack bolt salesman, undoubtedly an engineer would be able to explain it nore concisely.


Regards,

Macca

[the big fist]

Bolt/stud failure is caused by too much force, either laterally, or along it's axis.

Initially it will stretch/distort, then it will, for want of a better word, break.

Generally, the area of weakest strength, the thread and thread root area, will be where the failure occurs.

These types of studs/bolts are not something you can just machine up out of strong material. They are forged from specific grade steel/alloy and then heat treated to achieve the high strength that is required.

I'm not too sure of the strength of head bolts/studs, but I would imagine that they would be at least grade 12.9 or higher.

I dunno if any bolt/stud manufacturers make them any stronger, so the next best thing would be a diameter increase.


That's all that I can remember from when I was a hack bolt salesman, undoubtedly an engineer would be able to explain it nore concisely.


Regards,

Macca

Cheers mate. I am am one of those boring engineers. :shiner:

[BIGDAO]

theres actually a new kind of bolt torque method out these days where it actuall stretched the threads to the desired torque measurment. and screws it in:)

Standard fitment on Yamaha performance motorcycles (such as the YZ-F and WR-F range of dirt bikes, and the R1 roadbike), the head studs are tightened to a certain torque, then cranked through another 180-degree turn to apparently 'crack' the head bolts to the required tension. They are one-use-only, if you try and reuse them they will snap once they get to about 75% of their specified necessary torque.

My .02

[OLS108]

I cant belive we had people on this Forum paying out on any of the cars, we should all be getting behind these guys that are pouring Bucket loads of cash into these things for not much reward IMHO.:cussing:

[SLE355]

Standard fitment on Yamaha performance motorcycles (such as the YZ-F and WR-F range of dirt bikes, and the R1 roadbike), the head studs are tightened to a certain torque, then cranked through another 180-degree turn to apparently 'crack' the head bolts to the required tension. They are one-use-only, if you try and reuse them they will snap once they get to about 75% of their specified necessary torque.

My .02

Same as stock LS1 head and rod bolts, torque to yield bolts, used in heaps of cars these days.

[MattJ]

Also it a shame you couldnt have got TTVYSS going Matt but there is always next year.

Yeah we worked through Christmas, in fact, only had 3 days off in total between Christmas and the Tuesday (2nd jan). Hmm im thinking Easter nats! do they still have a dyno comp?



When I was chatting with Rob Henty looking at his Monaro and yours( very stealthy looking) he said Ask Matt what happened to his down there

Im not sure what he ment by that? Is he refering to my Broken Axle from me being a Knob head?

[MandL]

Anyone know how the Silver V6 Rodeo went on the dyno?:bounce:

[Goanna]

Over 600 from memory... was beaten to the line by a GTR which hit 660.

[HazzaHSV]

Yeah I got it on video in the qualifiers, from memory 640 odd.


Anyone know how the Silver V6 Rodeo went on the dyno?:bounce:

[Oldskoolpushrod]

Yeah we worked through Christmas, in fact, only had 3 days off in total between Christmas and the Tuesday (2nd jan). Hmm im thinking Easter nats! do they still have a dyno comp?



Matt,

yes they do

last years results:

DYNO CHALLENGE


POWER ENTRANT NO ENTRANT NAME VEHICLE PLACE
512.1KW 89 DAVID BUSUTTIL 1986 FORD XF FALCON 1ST
502.2KW 492 JOHN APOSTOLOPOULOS 1991 NISSAN GTR SKYLINE 2ND
399.1KW 290 BRETT HARRIS 1986 VL CALAIS TURBO 3RD


me..... almost last with 167kw

Davids car is that green XF with the turbo 4 litre 6 cylinder, the 2nd place was the AVO sponsored GTR, not sure who the other bloke was, but yeah turbo 6's seemed to have the goods last time.

oh and this is on DTS which calculates back to flywheel kw (oh and for the smarta$$'s, regardless of what you think on the DD v DTS v any other dyno arguments, be nice, as they are friends of mine who run it, cheers).

[Ron]

Im not sure what he ment by that? Is he refering to my Broken Axle from me being a Knob head?


Thats pretty much what Rob was alluding to Matt :lol:

[chev]

Well done all the sponsors/mechanics/machinists/owners/suppliers/mates for getting the vehicles ready. A bloody lot of hours goes into building these monsters for the general public to admire. Job very well done. Cheers Chev

[Martin_D]

Clamping the cylinder heads properly was the main focus of the development program for the Crewman engine that ran 1022rwhp in Summernats 18. Tony (CAPA) spent many hours designing a proprietary retainer system for stock cylinder head castings which allowed the Crewman engine to make its power without running into these sorts of problems using LS1 cylinder heads and stock type gaskets (without o-ringing etc) at over 20psi boost pressure. This engine then went on to run the Drift Australia championship all 2005 without needing any attention. CAPA offer these parts for sale to workshops and the general public alike. The solution to the problem then is only a phone call away.

We didnt run the drift ute on the dyno this year, but it did put on a fairly impressive display on the burnout pad Sunday afternoon for those that saw it in action. Thats brutal stuff holding the limiter in 3rd and 4th gears in 35 degree heat! :burnout: :) :lol:

[moose]

the figures you see this year are real..


Are these the same "real" figures as were on display at the AME in melb? 60 degree intake air temp? Barometric pressure "faults"?:rolleyes:

Sorry, no respect here for people that chuck money hand over fist at a car, to have it constantly break. :nopity:

Show me something that can go the distance where it counts, be it track or to the shops.

[HRT 8]

Are these the same "real" figures as were on display at the AME in melb? 60 degree intake air temp? Barometric pressure "faults"?:rolleyes:

Sorry, no respect here for people that chuck money hand over fist at a car, to have it constantly break. :nopity:

Show me something that can go the distance where it counts, be it track or to the shops.
Thats what handing fist full of money is about especially when you are at the pointy end of the field. How many LS1 based engines are around that produce over 1000 hp? Very farking few. You want to make that sort of power, reliably and it will cost you mountains of cash. Thats how it is.
No repsect for people like this says a few things about you!!!

[RhysB]

To compare this years Horsepower hero's with the last few years is folly, the only way Eddy Tassone's car made that much power was by boost spiking. Boost spiking has been outlawed and the figures you see this year are real. I take nothing away from Eddy Tassone's achievements.



Very interesting. For those of us who dont know what you mean (like me) by boost spiking, can you please explain what it is, and how a different result is achieved by doing it?

[TTVYSS]

Thats what handing fist full of money is about especially when you are at the pointy end of the field. How many LS1 based engines are around that produce over 1000 hp? Very farking few. You want to make that sort of power, reliably and it will cost you mountains of cash. Thats how it is.
No repsect for people like this says a few things about you!!!

Some people buy ferraris others buy mercs etc etc, I choose to spend it on something I can enjoy!!!!!!! At least your average person can relate to me more becuase its within reach of anyone!!!!!! TRYHARDS has cost him a lot more than mine but you wont seeing us bag him....... that is an engineering masterpiece....

[HRT 8]

Some people buy ferraris others buy mercs etc etc, I choose to spend it on something I can enjoy!!!!!!! At least your average person can relate to me more becuase its within reach of anyone!!!!!! TRYHARDS has cost him a lot more than mine but you wont seeing us bag him....... that is an engineering masterpiece....

Well said. When people can appreciate what is invloved, then they will understand.

[Sidewindr]

theres actually a new kind of bolt torque method out these days where it actuall stretched the threads to the desired torque measurment. and screws it in:)

pretty nifty device rather than using a torque multiplier. mainly used for heavy mining equipment. (which i work on)

how torque is done is it's based on the lenth of the thread x tpi usually unless it's a specific tightness for a certain reason :)


good luck tryhard and all the others to get their cars even faster for 06 :)

These are elastic bolts and are what the LS1 uses as standard head bolts, but not the best for holding down the heads as the thread length and tpi is restricted. I would imagine it is not the studs themselves stretching but the actual thread in the bolt holes, either that or the aluminium head is compressing around the head stud bolts and thus lifting.

[HOWQUICK]

what exactly happens during head stud failure ?
the bolt shears? stretchs?
Does anyone know what material and/or grade these are made from ?
Has anyone ever tried to machine up a set from stronger material or does everyone just rely on off the shelf parts ?

the head actually bows under the cylinder pressure...a common problem long before LS1 on other engines....

[Oldskoolpushrod]

Are these the same "real" figures as were on display at the AME in melb? 60 degree intake air temp? Barometric pressure "faults"?:rolleyes:

Sorry, no respect here for people that chuck money hand over fist at a car, to have it constantly break. :nopity:

Show me something that can go the distance where it counts, be it track or to the shops.


dude, its not as if its a well trodden path, they wouldnt exactly have a manual that says "hey if we do this, this and this, we get 2000hp"... a certain amount has to be trial and error. there's an old saying that whatever doesnt kill you, only makes you stronger..

[VX SS]

Very interesting. For those of us who dont know what you mean (like me) by boost spiking, can you please explain what it is, and how a different result is achieved by doing it?

Boost spiking is were you shut the wastegate just before the end of a run up then open it again. you can see this on Tassone graphs there is a slight dip near the top and then it takes of again.

Why do you think he keeps blowing the top of his manifold for.

[meatBOOST]

Very interesting. For those of us who dont know what you mean (like me) by boost spiking, can you please explain what it is, and how a different result is achieved by doing it?

How do you scrutineer this 'boost spiking'? There are plenty of turbo drag cars around that run no wastegates at all, let alone closing them at the end of the run.

Whats wrong with going to 40psi just before the end of the run and backing the boost off if thats how the engine has been setup to run? After all its a dyno comp, right? :thump:

[Delco]

How do you scrutineer this 'boost spiking'? There are plenty of turbo drag cars around that run no wastegates at all, let alone closing them at the end of the run.

Whats wrong with going to 40psi just before the end of the run and backing the boost off if thats how the engine has been setup to run? After all its a dyno comp, right? :thump:

Its called tricking a dyno , not real power , watch the power spike that happens when the dyno trys to catch a auto car as it changes gear on the dyno - same phenomenom.

Congrats again to Gary and Craig for a gynormous effort , lots more goes into getting a car to these levels than the average pleb could ever imagine - even harder to get it to a consistant reliable level.

[4digit]

Congrats Craig on the win! Was waching when it all went wrong & noticed the 14.2 AFR on the first run of 1262rwhp, with those AFR's it was never going to survive another run at those power levels! The second went 14.8 at the point of detotation.:flamin:

[Martin_D]

Its called tricking a dyno , not real power

The same argument could be levelled against Dry Ice intercoolers, which work for one or two dyno runs then are totally useless...(not real intercoolers?) The art that Anthony Rodrigues was able to master with the Tassone car was understanding how the dyno worked, and then engineering it into the car. Very clever indeed......which made the pair of them worthy (and still unbeaten?) champions :driving: :dance:

[Delco]

The same argument could be levelled against Dry Ice intercoolers, which work for one or two dyno runs then are totally useless...(not real intercoolers?) The art that Anthony Rodrigues was able to master with the Tassone car was understanding how the dyno worked, and then engineering it into the car. Very clever indeed......which made the pair of them worthy (and still unbeaten?) champions :driving: :dance:

Yes but in reality they were beating the control software that overcompensated to try and control the roller speed , good on them for beating the system , pooh to the dyno control system that allowed it and to the comp that allowed the loophole and no boost limits.

it was a lot more technical dyno comp when the boost was capped rather than the biggest balls and boost wins as we have seen over the last few years( that is not meant in anyway to take anything away from Craig or Gary ).
Anytime a competitor states he doesnt care if it splatters is guts all over the floor ( and hopefully not all over the spectators) looses all the technical merits for me .

The dry ice intercooler is a technical inovation that makes real power not a fudges electronic number power.

[Martin_D]

The dry ice intercooler is a technical inovation that makes real power not a fudges electronic number power.

So is the control system of soleniods and software that jams an extra 20psi of boost into the engine during the course of a dyno run :diddy:

[Nursing_Mother]

So is the control system of soleniods and software that jams an extra 20psi of boost into the engine during the course of a dyno run :diddy:

you tell'em Pappi :teach:

[Delco]

So is the control system of soleniods and software that jams an extra 20psi of boost into the engine during the course of a dyno run :diddy:

What ever Martin , if you believe the engine makes more power because it looses boost then gets hit again then that is most probably why you are a magazine writer and not me :bow:


I suppose boost cycling on the BA must be a good thing then eh :nutkick:

[HOWQUICK]

So is the control system of soleniods and software that jams an extra 20psi of boost into the engine during the course of a dyno run :diddy:

I don't think the argument is whether the boost kicked the power or if the indicated power was manipulated by the flaws in the test equipment.

I see a lot of test equipment manipulated for the sake of sales lately, I suppose the manipulation of the same test equipment for the sake of being a hero sits well with the same like.

obviously you agree with those ethics Martin........

[Martin_D]

What ever Martin , if you believe the engine makes more power because it looses boost then gets hit again then that is most probably why you are a magazine writer and not me :bow:

I believe Rodrigues in particular is very clever, and that hitting the engine with extra boost (havent seen it drop much first) gives extra power. I believe that the approach of said Rodrigues and Tassone may also work pretty well in real life, with said stock shelled VH pounding out an impressive low 8 sec pass at massive mph when taken to the track.


I suppose boost cycling on the BA must be a good thing then eh :nutkick:

Only for those that havent a clue about tuning them :lol: :lol: :astavista:

[Martin_D]

I see a lot of test equipment manipulated for the sake of sales lately, I suppose the manipulation of the same test equipment for the sake of being a hero sits well with the same like. obviously you agree with those ethics Martin........

Its a competition John, and the rules are there for everyone to use....even you.
However its very similar to the sport you are in, where someone makes a car from a box of tubes, puts a Chrysler engine in it, slaps a fibreglass body over the top and claims it as a Holden. Marketing madness at its best :) :lol:

[HOWQUICK]

Its a competition John, and the rules are there for everyone to use....even you.
However its very similar to the sport you are in, where someone makes a car from a box of tubes, puts a Chrysler engine in it, slaps a fibreglass body over the top and claims it as a Holden. Marketing madness at its best :) :lol:

Good to see nothing new for you in the new year Martin.

now if I was running around claiming it was an LS1 making the sort of power, based on weight shifted over the distance not party tricks, dudes like you only get to dream about, well then it would be shonk.

[Martin_D]

Good to see nothing new for you in the new year Martin. Now if I was running around claiming it was an LS1 making the sort of power, based on weight shifted over the distance not party tricks, dudes like you only get to dream about, well then it would be shonk.

Unlike your good self I have actually been there and done that at Summernats Horsepower Heroes, having tuned the CAPA car which ran a genuine non-boost spiked 1022 superchared rwhp and won the Exhibition class outright. None of which was easy.

I would suggest that before making comments about dyno competitions or the morals and ethics involved at competing in the deep end of the paddling pool that you actually achieve something in this arena. Its only fair to those that do, who put in the hard yards and push the boundaries of LS1 development. Sitting 5000km away and throwing stones is all too easy. Congrats to those at the top of the pile this year :)

[HRT Stroker]

Play nice boys...keep the insults to PM's.

Back on topic......

[HOWQUICK]

Unlike your good self I have actually been there and done that at Summernats Horsepower Heroes, having tuned the CAPA car which ran a genuine non-boost spiked 1022 superchared rwhp and won the Exhibition class outright. None of which was easy.

I would suggest that before making comments about dyno competitions or the morals and ethics involved at competing in the deep end of the paddling pool that you actually achieve something in this arena. Its only fair to those that do, who put in the hard yards and push the boundaries of LS1 development. Sitting 5000km away and throwing stones is all too easy. Congrats to those at the top of the pile this year :)

thanks for the advice Martin.:goodtime:

there will never be anything ethical in the manipulation of test equipment regardless of how you want to twist it.

[Martin_D]

thanks for the advice Martin.:goodtime:
there will never be anything ethical in the manipulation of test equipment regardless of how you want to twist it.

My advice to you then HQ is not to manipulate your test equipment then..... :teach:

[HRT Stroker]

I'll manipulate both your equipment in a minute!!!

FFS take it somewhere OTHER than ls1.com.au.........

[K31000]

I believe Rodrigues in particular is very clever, and that hitting the engine with extra boost (havent seen it drop much first) gives extra power. I believe that the approach of said Rodrigues and Tassone may also work pretty well in real life, with said stock shelled VH pounding out an impressive low 8 sec pass at massive mph when taken to the track.



Only for those that havent a clue about tuning them :lol: :lol: :astavista:



It's probably the only dyno winning car that has truly backed its figures up on the track.

Boost spiking is common in rally cars is it not?

[Martin_D]

Dont know what you are talking about Strokey, but I am here to discuss the Summernats 19 Horsepower Heroes results :confused:

[Martin_D]

It's probably the only dyno winning car that has truly backed its figures up on the track.
Boost spiking is common in rally cars is it not?

True and True :cheers:

[Nursing_Mother]

I'll manipulate both your equipment in a minute!!!

FFS take it somewhere OTHER than ls1.com.au.........
exactly...and remember...Friendship needs no words - it is solitude delivered from the anguish of loneliness

[HRT Stroker]

exactly...and remember...Friendship needs no words - it is solitude delivered from the anguish of loneliness

Jeezus Nurse, you gone all philisophical on us??

On a different tack, was anyone hurt in the Capa ute accident??? Hope not.

Was a bit suprised to see that they were allowed to run an event like that with out better crowd protection:eek:

[Uncle Tone]

Good thing i save this stuff before the mods touch-them-up....no offence HRT your a cool old dude:dance:

Dammit didn't catch them before the edit.:flamin:

Posting now so I don't miss any more!!

C'mon guys, lets see some action!!:evil:

[Uncle Tone]

I'll manipulate both your equipment in a minute!!

:limpy: oooh-err, I bet you'd love that, Strokey!! :limpy:

:lol: :p :lol:




















:hide:

[RedVYIISS]

This boost spiking stuff is fascinating. Tuna, Delco & Howquick, you all make interesting and valid points. (Leave the personal attacks out of it though, you can give an opinion without sniping at each other? You're all big fellas.)

Who was it that 'accused' Tassone of boost spiking, and who banned it. If there was no measurable drop in boost prior to the spike how was it picked up? (or do they record boost during the run?). You'd obviously collect this data if you were tuning a car, I'm surprised however that this data is collected in a dyno comp (where presumably unlimited boost is allowed).

[Martin_D]

I do believe that there may have been a backlash against Tassone dominating most dyno competitions with his VH. While other competitors were off sitting on their hands ordering 'power parts' from a book, Rodrigues from Maztech and Tassone kicked their brains into gear and worked to the limit of the rules. Hats off to them. I love innovation rather than imitation :)

[HOWQUICK]

This boost spiking stuff is fascinating. Tuna, Delco & Howquick, you all make interesting and valid points. (Leave the personal attacks out of it though, you can give an opinion without sniping at each other? You're all big fellas.)

Who was it that 'accused' Tassone of boost spiking, and who banned it. If there was no measurable drop in boost prior to the spike how was it picked up? (or do they record boost during the run?). You'd obviously collect this data if you were tuning a car, I'm surprised however that this data is collected in a dyno comp (where presumably unlimited boost is allowed).

it is not the spiking of boost that is the issue but the flaw in the test equipment that allowed the power figure to show.

[Martin_D]

it is not the spiking of boost that is the issue but the flaw in the test equipment that allowed the power figure to show.

What do you think the real power would have been then?

[RedVYIISS]

Quote Howquick "it is not the spiking of boost that is the issue but the flaw in the test equipment that allowed the power figure to show."


I think I get it. At the point prior to the boost spike the dyno reads X Hp, at the time of the spike the engine makes X + Y Hp (a sudden increase) but as the rise to this point had been somewhat linear the 'retard' controller overshoots its setpoint (as it's not expecting a sudden increase) and displays X + >Y Hp (and possibly much greater than Y).

Don't worry about the terms I've used, but is the general idea right?

[SLE355]

Brett Waines made 1470rwhp without boost spiking in his VC last year. That was after the competition runs and may have been on race fuel, cant rememeber.

I also rememeber the shit fight on Crackling Pipes forum after Eddy won HP Hero's, Rodrigues posted that the VH was running a tune that made around 1100rwhp when it ran the low 8 at 17Xmph, as the 10" slick couldn't hold anymore power under the VH.

[Martin_D]

I think I get it. At the point prior to the boost spike the dyno reads X Hp, at the time of the spike the engine makes X + Y Hp (a sudden increase) but as the rise to this point had been somewhat linear the 'retard' controller overshoots its setpoint (as it's not expecting a sudden increase) and displays X + >Y Hp (and possibly much greater than Y).
Don't worry about the terms I've used, but is the general idea right?

Thats the theory being bandied around here. Personally I would rather think about this kind of stuff than remain shut-eyed to the possibilities of correctly applied competition turbocharging.

[HRT.2FAST]

We didnt run the drift ute on the dyno this year, but it did put on a fairly impressive display on the burnout pad Sunday afternoon for those that saw it in action. Thats brutal stuff holding the limiter in 3rd and 4th gears in 35 degree heat! :burnout: :) :lol:

ohhhh yeah we seen it all right some closer than others "just ask the little bloke with an indicator hanging out of his forehead"

Seriously though If the method in the way they could find that extra power by tricks and mirrors has been cleared up "why has the VH stayed away"?

As i would put $100 on the blue vx beating the blue vh at the same boost
not taking away anything from tassone i just think hes out cubed and out engineered these days.

[CnC]

Look out next year for some real innovation in the 4 and 6 cylinder turbocharged classes for those who care, I assume that doesnt include too many people here but nonetheless keep an eye out :)

[Martin_D]

ohhhh yeah we seen it all right some closer than others "just ask the little bloke with an indicator hanging out of his forehead"

The real deal Drift Ute wasnt involved in the Saturday night incident. It had a broken tailshaft from pulling fourth gear burnouts earlier that day. The car involved was a bone stocker I do believe.


Seriously though If the method in the way they could find that extra power by tricks and mirrors has been cleared up "why has the VH stayed away"?

Probably best to ask Eddy that one. More than likely the answer will be work commitment related. Whether you like em or not they are a group of guys that have never backed down from a challenge.


As i would put $100 on the blue vx beating the blue vh at the same boost not taking away anything from tassone i just think hes out cubed and out engineered these days.

Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell I spose :beer:

[mrG]

well not many of you know who i am but rest assured that i have a great deal to do with craigs car and i cant believe some of the rubish i have seen on this thread. let me clarify a couple of things for you all firstly craigs car did not blow up it had a fuel leak and was ignited by the chains that they tied the car down with causing sparks. Secondly the car only showed 1200 odd horsepower that day but what you dont know is that it broke traction on the dyno at 6000 rpm and bounced on the limiter. Last but not least for all of you who are quick to throw criticism around i cant wait to see you up against that verycar some day and we will see how you compare. as far as dyno spiking is concerned tryhrd doesnt need to which is all im concerned about and if you think you can beat its horsepower by doing so then i urge you to try cos craigs car is capable of allot more as you will find out in the course of the year.

id like to say a big thanx to Gary Pope for a fantastic weekend and craig for having faith in HPF and tuna, capa, matt at G&D and all who had a party with rob and i on saturday night.
:love:

[4digit]

This boost spiking stuff is fascinating. Tuna, Delco & Howquick, you all make interesting and valid points. (Leave the personal attacks out of it though, you can give an opinion without sniping at each other? You're all big fellas.)

Who was it that 'accused' Tassone of boost spiking, and who banned it. If there was no measurable drop in boost prior to the spike how was it picked up? (or do they record boost during the run?). You'd obviously collect this data if you were tuning a car, I'm surprised however that this data is collected in a dyno comp (where presumably unlimited boost is allowed).


Yes manifold pressure is collected at the nats.

There is no drop in boost in this case, the solinoids divert all of the pressure to the under side of the waste gates holding them open while at the same time using stupid amounts of timing retard thus creating lots of exhaust pressure, then towards the end of the run where the power starts to drop off the solinoids divert pressure to the top of the wastegates stapping them shut excelerating the turbos from 30 to 45psi in a flash! This has been done in the US for a while to trick the dynos.:deal:

[4digit]

I do believe that there may have been a backlash against Tassone dominating most dyno competitions with his VH. While other competitors were off sitting on their hands ordering 'power parts' from a book, Rodrigues from Maztech and Tassone kicked their brains into gear and worked to the limit of the rules. Hats off to them. I love innovation rather than imitation :)

Yeah, they made a phone call to the states! Good innovators?:rofl:

The car hasn't ever and never will make that sort of power! So that year they should have just drawn some numbers out of a hat!:bash:

[4digit]

Brett Waines made 1470rwhp without boost spiking in his VC last year. That was after the competition runs and may have been on race fuel, cant rememeber.

I also rememeber the shit fight on Crackling Pipes forum after Eddy won HP Hero's, Rodrigues posted that the VH was running a tune that made around 1100rwhp when it ran the low 8 at 17Xmph, as the 10" slick couldn't hold anymore power under the VH.


the 1470rwhp was run on pump fuel before the fuel had been tested and was only run because the pryer 3 runs had stupid amounts of wheel spin! Now the rules say that if there was wheel spin you get another go but not that year for some funny reason so a perfectly legal record won't go in the books!:cussing:

[Wezza]

Well said Darren and thanks for the support

I might say its easy to sit back on the keyboard and have a say why dont you blokes have a go yourselves. I dont see many above out there trying to produce this type power on pump gas. I also notice the sponser that say's the least produces the most results.

HPF and Rob Vickery rock, commitment commitment.

Where are the rest of the who were coming. i would query the commitment.

This is what HPF had to do to be there for there clients.

Between boxing day and Jan 5th

My car had the heads removed twice and replaced twice, we did two camshaft changes. We exploded the 6 speed box and replaced it on the friday

Craigs car detonated the motor after a fuel pump fuse went at full noise on Friday night. Lost 3 pistons and had to resleeve the block, these are custom pistons they had them made on Tuesday a big thanks to SPS the block was finished machining at 3 pm wednesday Rob and George worked to 5 pm Thursday to have it back together. We ran mine up at midnight that night and threw a belt took the thermostat housing off.

We left Melbourne 6pm Thursday Rob and George slept I drove we got to Canberra at 4am Friday after a blown tyre at Albury

I pulled 945RWHP first run and chucked the belt we fixed that and had another go and broke 4 pushrods.We fixed that and still qualified.

I see others saying what they will do but HPF did it and the results are in

1st and 2nd Small Block turbo and Blown class Summernats 19

1st and 3rd Horsepower Heros

Technically the second place car was allowed to rev to 8800 rpm when the limit was set at 7000 rpm as per the rule book.

First time ever LS1 engined cars first and second at Summernats.


A big thanks to Rob at HPF and to George and Danny we couldnt do it without you.
I was there when you did your run on Saturday mate. Didn't get to see TRYHRD run though. Many congratulations from me!! :) The car sounds awesome.

[seracing]

Put ANY horsepower heros car tuned for the event and then put it straight on the strip it would maybe go 150m then blow(thats why eddie "de-tuned" the car for when he raced it.The whole reason some people are questioning tryhards results it (1)a few years ago the car was labled a "2000hp" weapon (on the rollers rwhp) and the people who said it know who they are.
(2) The amount of money spent on it which is always one of the first things noted in a magazine.but when you play with hp money should not be a issue.its what we enjoy doing .
(3)the awsome engineering pieace of art that "so far" has not deliverd.
(4) 1200rwhp is old news

Now i have spent day and night put cars together ready for shows and rebuilding motors ready for race day after blowing up the day befor. Its hard work but we love it .But the hardest of it all is putting up with all the shit that is said about your car and mates cars after all the hard work you put into it .But that is life and it will always happen but it just's makes the strong stronger .

The amount of work that has gone into tryhard is amazing and full credit to the owner and the people around him for building the car .At the end of the day as long as the owner is happy f#$k everyone else becouse you will never please everyone .

this is just my view on this topic,take it as you like who knows maybe they will get the magic 2000rwhp(funny as it feels not long ago the magic 1000rwhp was the word) goodluck to them .

[Oldskoolpushrod]

I thought Eddy wasnt going back to the Nats after the 'hidden NOS' allegations and subsequent proof that he WASNT using NOS.

[Oldskoolpushrod]

Look out next year for some real innovation in the 4 and 6 cylinder turbocharged classes for those who care, I assume that doesnt include too many people here but nonetheless keep an eye out :)


Kris, is yours back on the road now? Bring it down to the Easternats :D

[SLE355]

I thought Eddy wasnt going back to the Nats after the 'hidden NOS' allegations and subsequent proof that he WASNT using NOS.

He went back the next year....

He did say he wasn't returning after that incident though!

[4digit]

Put ANY horsepower heros car tuned for the event and then put it straight on the strip it would maybe go 150m then blow(thats why eddie "de-tuned" the car for when he raced it.The whole reason some people are questioning tryhards results it (1)a few years ago the car was labled a "2000hp" weapon (on the rollers rwhp) and the people who said it know who they are.
(2) The amount of money spent on it which is always one of the first things noted in a magazine.but when you play with hp money should not be a issue.its what we enjoy doing .
(3)the awsome engineering pieace of art that "so far" has not deliverd.
(4) 1200rwhp is old news

Now i have spent day and night put cars together ready for shows and rebuilding motors ready for race day after blowing up the day befor. Its hard work but we love it .But the hardest of it all is putting up with all the shit that is said about your car and mates cars after all the hard work you put into it .But that is life and it will always happen but it just's makes the strong stronger .

The amount of work that has gone into tryhard is amazing and full credit to the owner and the people around him for building the car .At the end of the day as long as the owner is happy f#$k everyone else becouse you will never please everyone .

this is just my view on this topic,take it as you like who knows maybe they will get the magic 2000rwhp(funny as it feels not long ago the magic 1000rwhp was the word) goodluck to them .


Only bit I have a gripe with is the first few lines! If These cars can survive 3 back to back 6 second full power runs on a dyno (wich probably puts more constant and consistant load on engine and driveline) why wouldn't they survive 7-8 seconds on a track?

There is this belief out there that these engines are all grenades but how many have you seen blow up prier to this year?

[MandL]

how did the rodeo get over 650hp with a 3.2L work ute thats a massive 203hp per litre not bad coming 2nd to a highly developed race engine anyone got more info ??????????:

[CnC]

Kris, is yours back on the road now? Bring it down to the Easternats :D

Not yet buddy still waiting on the pistolas to arrive, any week now.. :bawl:

[CnC]

He went back the next year....

He did say he wasn't returning after that incident though!

Certainly did say that, generally you shouldnt make silly statements like that unless you plan to follow through with them.

[CnC]

Only bit I have a gripe with is the first few lines! If These cars can survive 3 back to back 6 second full power runs on a dyno (wich probably puts more constant and consistant load on engine and driveline) why wouldn't they survive 7-8 seconds on a track?

There is this belief out there that these engines are all grenades but how many have you seen blow up prier to this year?

The reason for this is that the engine will generally be placed under a much higher load on the track than the dyno. The dyno is relatively easy on the motor, but doing a burnout, launching the car etc places quite a bit of stress on the motor.

Hence if you want it to live then it is generally a wise idea to detune it a little away from the ragged edge to ensure that it lives..

[CnC]

how did the rodeo get over 650hp with a 3.2L work ute thats a massive 203hp per litre not bad coming 2nd to a highly developed race engine anyone got more info ??????????:

This car is running a rather large turbo (T66 from memory, I could be wrong), and a very nice ARE dry ice intercooler setup. 203hp per litre is quite good especially for a newcomer and was one of the better efforts in the competition. I think with a bit more sorting out the car could crack 700hp at the wheels without too much difficulty, so watch out for this one next year.

From memory the Skyline GTR that won the 6 cylinder forced induction class made 670hp using a 2.7L JUN stroker, which equates to 248hp @ the wheels per litre.

You also have to remember that these numbers are wheel horsepower numbers, so the actual hp / litre seen at the engine should be roughly 20-25% higher than this.

I have managed to get 525hp @ the wheels out of a 2.2L myself which is around 238hp / litre @ the wheels, which I'm planning on improving on if I actually manage to get the car into the dyno comp next year.

[CnC]

well not many of you know who i am but rest assured that i have a great deal to do with craigs car and i cant believe some of the rubish i have seen on this thread. let me clarify a couple of things for you all firstly craigs car did not blow up it had a fuel leak and was ignited by the chains that they tied the car down with causing sparks. Secondly the car only showed 1200 odd horsepower that day but what you dont know is that it broke traction on the dyno at 6000 rpm and bounced on the limiter. Last but not least for all of you who are quick to throw criticism around i cant wait to see you up against that verycar some day and we will see how you compare. as far as dyno spiking is concerned tryhrd doesnt need to which is all im concerned about and if you think you can beat its horsepower by doing so then i urge you to try cos craigs car is capable of allot more as you will find out in the course of the year.

id like to say a big thanx to Gary Pope for a fantastic weekend and craig for having faith in HPF and tuna, capa, matt at G&D and all who had a party with rob and i on saturday night.
:love:

They should be congratulated for trying to push the boundaries of things, they have had a lot of bad luck in the process, as I know how that is I empathise with them.

Hopefully they can come back next year and do really well again, without setting the car on fire this time ;)

[Markt]

how did the rodeo get over 650hp with a 3.2L work ute thats a massive 203hp per litre not bad coming 2nd to a highly developed race engine anyone got more info ??????????:


This little engine normally does make over 700rwhp, we have back here now and pulled apart and its has 1 broken valve spring and a bent valve, so it was running on 5 cyl and still made 658.7rwhp, 10hp off the winner. It has a large turbo (t91) with low boost (24psi) any more boost and it blows the spark out.

Next dyno comp with decent fuel and some real boost it will run over 800rwhp.

Cheers Mark

[nickh]

actully id like to give a HUGE well done to Luke (and dynomotive)Luke who owns the turbo charged rodeo because to take a stock rodeo and turn it into a 700 odd rwhp machine takes balls and alot of engineering unlike taking a GTR where in most cases you are able to buy nearly everything off the shelf and use well known path to create that sort of power.....:headbang: but well done to everyone involed without you guys pushing the boundrys we would all still be driving stock LS1s (which i dont even have atm:P)

[4digit]

The reason for this is that the engine will generally be placed under a much higher load on the track than the dyno. The dyno is relatively easy on the motor, but doing a burnout, launching the car etc places quite a bit of stress on the motor.

Hence if you want it to live then it is generally a wise idea to detune it a little away from the ragged edge to ensure that it lives..


don't no about tossone but I no Brett Waine's is no Where near the ragged edge as you put it! 28psi, 11.0 AFR and over all a very conservative tune!

And when you launch a car with that much power you think its going to be at full boost and maximum revs? you'll get 2 nice black lines down the whole track whatever the tyre size!

Tassone ran a conservative tune only because of the tyre size he was running!

So you believe that a burnout puts the engine under more load than a full load dyno run would assuming there was traction? Don't think so!

[MandL]

This little engine normally does make over 700rwhp, we have back here now and pulled apart and its has 1 broken valve spring and a bent valve, so it was running on 5 cyl and still made 658.7rwhp, 10hp off the winner. It has a large turbo (t91) with low boost (24psi) any more boost and it blows the spark out.

Next dyno comp with decent fuel and some real boost it will run over 800rwhp.

Cheers Mark
ween did the turbo go on i seen it at the AME show it made 55?hp with a charger on it then i seen it at the ALL PERFORMANCE CHALLENGE heathcote 12.11.05 and still had a charger on it.

[Markt]

ween did the turbo go on i seen it at the AME show it made 55?hp with a charger on it then i seen it at the ALL PERFORMANCE CHALLENGE heathcote 12.11.05 and still had a charger on it.


After the AME show the owner decided to lose the power sapping vortech and change to a single turbo, we modified the original headers to feed the single turbo and made no other changes other than the ice box, it made 558 on race fuel with 30psi from the vortech and 658 on optimax with 24psi from the turbo.
Before the summernats on optimax we had 714 (with 6 cylinders working).


Cheers Mark

[Wezza]

how did the rodeo get over 650hp with a 3.2L work ute thats a massive 203hp per litre not bad coming 2nd to a highly developed race engine anyone got more info ??????????:
That was certainly an awesome figure!! It had a massive turbo on it. Would love to go for a ride in that Rodeo!! :)

[sle383]

It's probably the only dyno winning car that has truly backed its figures up on the track.

Boost spiking is common in rally cars is it not?

What about manswettos capri.

[Martin_D]

What about manswettos capri.

Very nice that :karate:

[spiv]

What about manswettos capri.

At the Melbourne AME the Manswetto guys come over to me to have a chat when I was fitting up my air cleaner after a dyno run. They are a top bunch of blokes who really know their stuff. They told me that they were about to install a chassis dyno and start playing with LS1's, with their experience with building tuff motors it will be very interesting to see their development..

[MattJ]

What about manswettos capri.

That was preety amazing, those guys were over the moon and for good reason. :yup:

As the rules state that NA engines do not have to run pump fuel, I wonder what it was running?

[Wezza]

What about manswettos capri.
Yeah that certainly was an awesome engine in that thing!! It actually sounded quite tame compared to some of the vehicles running nowhere near the hp this thing had. Amazing!!

[seracing]

Only bit I have a gripe with is the first few lines! If These cars can survive 3 back to back 6 second full power runs on a dyno (wich probably puts more constant and consistant load on engine and driveline) why wouldn't they survive 7-8 seconds on a track?

There is this belief out there that these engines are all grenades but how many have you seen blow up prier to this year?
Yes full power runs maybe BUT on the dyno bring the revs up to your rpm limit
at the strip you are all go from start to finished and a dyno will never replicate loads on the strip.There has been more then a couple of times when a car run sweet on the street after being tuned on a dyno but has failed at the strip.I feel the dyno is a good tool for getting you around the mark but you cannot beat real life data.
Try doing burnouts with slicks ,the hotter they get the stickyer they become and load will increase.

[CnC]

What airflow or hp rating is the turbo?