Towing capacity with LS1 powered cars

[lx406]

I am hunting around for what might be a suitable daily driver and a tow car on the weekends. I need to tow my HG Prem to the dragstrip. It weighs 1600kg + whatever a trailer weighs.

My question is, Will a late model Holden with IRS and LS1 do the job well and safe?

[Tonner]

I am hunting around for what might be a suitable daily driver and a tow car on the weekends. I need to tow my HG Prem to the dragstrip. It weighs 1600kg + whatever a trailer weighs.

My question is, Will a late model Holden with IRS and LS1 do the job well and safe?
Auto is your safest bet, btw.

[macca33]

G'day mate.

I think I've heard this qwuestion before somewhere.
I just referenced my Owner's Manual and it cites:-

Up to 1600Kg:-

Essential:-
1,600kg rated towbar, wiring harness, electronic/hydraulic brakes on the trailer, Heat shields for rear muffler and centre bearing.

Recommended:- Load distribution hitch (recommended when towing over 750Kg


Up to 2100Kg:-

Essential:-
2100Kg rated towbar, harness, trailer brakes, AUTO tranny, heat shields, pump-up shockers.

Recommended:- Load distribution hitch.(recommended when towing over 750Kg


Haymen Reese manufacture the tow hitches that are rated to 2100kg - I've got one.

To summarise, an LS1 WILL tow your car, but I would go for an AUTO with a you-beaut tranny cooler. (even though I hate to say that!!)


Regards,

Macca

[lx406]

Thanks Macca! See you at work!

[exploder]

I use my SS wagon (auto) sometimes to tow a 2 horse float and it does it a piece of piss. I have the factory 2100kg tow kit installed, air shocks, heat shields etc. All up two horses and the float would weigh around 2000kg.

BUT I dont think its legal because I'm pretty sure I'm exceeding GCM for vehicle and trailer. Which is what I think will be your issue with the the Premier. I think your trailer will weigh around the 500kg mark at least and that means you can not carry anything else in the car, ie spares parts etc would need to be transported in another vehicle.

Its up to you on what you do, but physically it will work. BTW my normal tow vehicle for the horse float is a landcruiser.

[clixanup]

Up to 1600Kg:-
...
Up to 2100Kg:-
...
To summarise, an LS1 WILL tow your car, but I would go for an AUTO with a you-beaut tranny cooler. (even though I hate to say that!!)

It should be noted that those are "ball" weights. ie: the weight at the towball.

If you have a 2 or 3 axle trailer, there wouldn't be 1600kg at the ball with the car on there.

As per Macca33, a trans-cooler is a must if you're going to be doing this very often. Also, upgraded brakes would be handy too.

I've got a 1250kg towbar, and once towed a trailer loaded with 600 house bricks. Also have towed the same trailer with half a cubic metre of gravel. And later that day went back and got half a metre of (wet) sand. No problems at all.

[exploder]

Originally Posted by macca33
Up to 1600Kg:-
...
Up to 2100Kg:-
...
To summarise, an LS1 WILL tow your car, but I would go for an AUTO with a you-beaut tranny cooler. (even though I hate to say that!!)



It should be noted that those are "ball" weights. ie: the weight at the towball.


Not quite, the max ball weight on a current model Commodore for a 2100kg trailer is 210kgs. A 2100kg trailer weighs 2100kgs no matter how you many axles it has.

[commodoreking]

I recommend the attached website link which gives some good general information for towing:

http://www.towingguide.com/

[OzJavelin]

I use my SS wagon (auto) sometimes to tow a 2 horse float and it does it a piece of piss. I have the factory 2100kg tow kit installed, air shocks, heat shields etc. All up two horses and the float would weigh around 2000kg.

BUT I dont think its legal because I'm pretty sure I'm exceeding GCM for vehicle and trailer. Which is what I think will be your issue with the the Premier. I think your trailer will weigh around the 500kg mark at least and that means you can not carry anything else in the car, ie spares parts etc would need to be transported in another vehicle.

Its up to you on what you do, but physically it will work. BTW my normal tow vehicle for the horse float is a landcruiser.
Agree entirely. I too tow a tandem horsefloat with an SV8 with factory 2100kg towkit .. with two horses it still does it easy .. BUT this is probably illegal (usually only one). For towing another car, I'd be getting something bigger if possible
.. thing is that the LS1 does it SOOOO easy .. it's distressing using anything else!!!

[scotty]

Aside from the legal aspect...

I have a 2100kg Haymond Reece Towbar with the Electric Brake Module. I have towed a Gemini and spare bits to rallies with no issues.. and my car is a manual... I think some of the trailers I used were heavier than the car...

I have never understood why an auto can get a higher tow rating than a manual....

I would reccommend a load distrbution hitch and the electronic brake controller... obviously the trailer brakes need to be suitable. The brake controller helps if you get trailer sway as you can apply the trailer's brakes seperate of the car's...

The only other thing that may be required depending on the car is a camber kit...

[exploder]

Aside from the legal aspect...
I have never understood why an auto can get a higher tow rating than a manual....


Clutch, Holden don't/wont warranty it.

[VX SS]

The SS Crewman is rated to tow 2500kg

[2001 ITR]

I would allow more than 600kg as a safe weight for the trailer weight. I was quoted that weight for a twin axle trailer that could tow a Datsun 240Z (or an LJ Torana). How much would a trailer that can tow an HG weigh? Look in to it a bit further I guess...


As a side issue when I was looking at towing capacities I discovered this: 1.3 Litre Honda Jazz weighs 1010kg, puts out 61kw and 119nm.

Q. What do you reckon it's specified towing capacity is?
A. For a braked trailer (1000kg for a manual and 800kg for an auto)
http://www.honda.com.au/jazz/gli/specifications/dimensions.htm

Can you imagine 119nm struggling to move 2010kg?

[JBonDSS]

I had a Manual VX SS S1, with a 2100kg to kit, I towed heaps of stuff.
sure the clutch hated hill start with 2ton on the tandem trailer
There might of been a slight case of body stretch :P

but with a reasonable clutch the manual is a great tow car

[IIV8II]

Clutch, Holden don't/wont warranty it.

...plus cooling system, driver abuse, torque load on driveline etc etc etc

all works better with an auto

Disregarding Holden's calibrations, any who tows with a manual is in idiot!

To answer the thread question yeah a Gen III will tow up to 2200 okay. So will a V6. Fords are better, but

[lx406]

Thanks to all who replied to this topic, food for thought.

I might get shot down a bit on this forum, but I have seriously looked at an XR8 ute or similar as they have leaf spring rear and a 1 tonne chassis. Crewman is an option also.

[scotty]

...
Disregarding Holden's calibrations, any who tows with a manual is in idiot!



Care to explain why I am an idiot?

[JezzaB]

My boss has been towing a 2000kg+ trailer everyday for about a year with a manual SS Crewman. It is killing the diff, clutch and the brakes. He's now buying a new VZ auto version.

You can tow that weight with a manual but it will kill the clutch and is very hard to get going. Next ones a SS Crewman, A4 being modded straight from the factory to: 3.7 diff gears, 2.5" twin system, tranny cooler, strengthened auto, cam (unsure of what size yet) and 4-1 headers. Should pull the beast of a trailer pretty well.

Jez

[Speedy Gonzales]

I had a Manual VX SS S1, with a 2100kg to kit, I towed heaps of stuff.
sure the clutch hated hill start with 2ton on the tandem trailer
There might of been a slight case of body stretch :P

but with a reasonable clutch the manual is a great tow car

Reminds me of a story by an aquaintance who towed using a late model Holden, put ripples along the frame of the roof, I would not touch any Holden that has been used for towing duties irrespective of the kit fitted, want a stretched frame?

[OzJavelin]

Thanks to all who replied to this topic, food for thought.

I might get shot down a bit on this forum, but I have seriously looked at an XR8 ute or similar as they have leaf spring rear and a 1 tonne chassis. Crewman is an option also.
AFAIK a one-tonne Ford ute can't actually TOW anymore than a "normal" ute with a 2300kg hitch .. but I believe it can theortically tow-and-carry more. You won't get an XR8 in one-tonne specs, best would be an XLS with the 5.4L SOHC engine. If you really don't need the one-tonne capacity I wouldn't bother. I've got a V8 AU one-tonne which is great compared to Jap utes, but it rides and handles crap compared to normal Aussie utes. I'm also having big dramas with good-and-legal one-tonne rated tyres .. the choice is limited.

[OzJavelin]

Reminds me of a story by an aquaintance who towed using a late model Holden, put ripples along the frame of the roof, I would not touch any Holden that has been used for towing duties irrespective of the kit fitted, want a stretched frame?
Either he was towing something FAR too heavy for the vehicle or this "late model Holden" was a VC Commodore .. that's about the last time I've ever heard that happening?

[VooDoo]

Reminds me of a story by an aquaintance who towed using a late model Holden, put ripples along the frame of the roof, I would not touch any Holden that has been used for towing duties irrespective of the kit fitted, want a stretched frame?

The Frame in a manual is no differant to an Auto. Other than the clutch there shouldnt be any differances between the 2 unless he was overloading the car. I have heard of quite a few prodo's with similar issues though. If your going to tow something very heavy, get something with a full chassis like a landcruiser.

[Tonner]

The Frame in a manual is no differant to an Auto. Other than the clutch there shouldnt be any differances between the 2 unless he was overloading the car. I have heard of quite a few prodo's with similar issues though. If your going to tow something very heavy, get something with a full chassis like a landcruiser.
HE HE! or an old Tonner,as New, Want to buy one??

[OzJavelin]

The Frame in a manual is no differant to an Auto. Other than the clutch there shouldnt be any differances between the 2 unless he was overloading the car. I have heard of quite a few prodo's with similar issues though. If your going to tow something very heavy, get something with a full chassis like a landcruiser.
Or one of these ..
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/OzJavelin/various-200506901.JPG
Could never understand why people buy Pajeros for carting kids when this would carry nine people in comfort and style :)

[VYBerlinaV8]

I think one of the major issues with towing is the braking capacity of the car and trailer. From a legal perspective, they aren't that worried about you taking your time, as long as the thing stops ok.

I have towed a bit over a tonne with the Berlina, but for really heavy work I would probably prefer something with shorter gearing, to make better use of the midrange. I suspect a diff change would be a big improvement.

[andrewslr]

I had the 2100kg kit in my VX Berlina LS1, minus air shocks in the rear. I towed my track car to HSV owners club sprint days with it. Whilst the car towed beautifuly, plenty of power, braking was always an issue and to be perfectly honest, I never felt safe doing it. I can see why people go for the 4WD's for towing, but the Cross8 ute does to a pretty good job as well I believe.....braking concerns aside.

[clixanup]

Could never understand why people buy Pajeros for carting kids when this would carry nine people in comfort and style :)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Look, I love big American cars as much as the next yob, but trying to pass one off as a practical everyday driver is just ridiculous.

Does that thing even have seatbelts? What about the brakes? Drums the size of shoe polish tins? How many MPG does it get? I won't even start on crumple zones... :lol:

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I love yank tanks, but you can't say that they're practical daily transport.

[cheffy]

I've towed a race car and suel axle trailer behind a vz crewman manual. It did it ok, but the clutch didn't like starting off. Personally the best tow car i've used is a c12 chev duelly with a 490cu big block. comfortable and did adelaide to melbourne on $90 gas...

[OzJavelin]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Look, I love big American cars as much as the next yob, but trying to pass one off as a practical everyday driver is just ridiculous.

Does that thing even have seatbelts? What about the brakes? Drums the size of shoe polish tins? How many MPG does it get? I won't even start on crumple zones... :lol:

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I love yank tanks, but you can't say that they're practical daily transport.
Going O/T here (sorry). You are entirely correct .. this SPECIFIC wagon was a pretty poor example as it was STOCK; ie. lap-sash belts, four-wheel drums, etc. It was 327/PG and actually got pretty good fuel economy (I can remember it used a LOT less fuel than a 308 Holden I had around the same time). If you wanted to spend a bit on a vehicle like it (a fair bit less than a modern Jap 4x4) you could have most the mod cons - eg. SEFI V8, AOD trans, AC, 4WD, cruise etc - and it can carry nine (how many non-vans can do that!), and it's got a full chassis for towing. As for crumple zones .. well it would just use other cars for that! Yank cars, European or Aussie cars are all the same at this age .. they are all very ordinary compared to modern vehicles but they were daily drivers at some point weren't they? ;)

[IIV8II]

Care to explain why I am an idiot?

Yeah, sure!
Wear and tear on trans/clutch, less driver control/concentration, less ability to engine brake...
Sure put a box trailer or something else small behind a manual, but with weights in excess of say 1000kg auto is a far easier, safer, more reliable and economical

[DaveHAT]

I am hunting around for what might be a suitable daily driver and a tow car on the weekends. I need to tow my HG Prem to the dragstrip. It weighs 1600kg + whatever a trailer weighs.

My question is, Will a late model Holden with IRS and LS1 do the job well and safe?

Some other factors perhaps worth considering are that just because it is stated that a vehicle CAN tow a trailer up to a certain, doesn't necassarily mean that it should. I think the most important factor in your decision should be how often do I plan to tow with it & how far? Be also mindful that many quoted tow weights are "UP TO" weight limits.

As you can see from peoples responses the LS1 can & will do what you're seeking with consumate ease, but if you plan to tow the HG long distances regularly I'd probably be looking at something with a full chassis.

To elaborate further, I had a VQ Stato (1st IRS Holden) with the full heavy duty towpack/brake setup fitted to it & when towing a caravan, which sat at the upper suggested weight limit, up the North Coast of NSW, I found I had to abort the trip at Taree when the rear doors popped open. The frame had stretched as others had suggested can happen. Not really a nice surprise.

Food for thought.:werd: