Braindead hsv technicians

[Avalanche]

Well, on Sunday i decide its time that i undo each wheel at a time & torque the wheel nuts up properly, with a torque wrench. I shit u not. I have found that any slight vibes dissapear when this is done. BUUUTT gee the wheel nuts were a bit tight, so much so that it stripped the wheel brace that is supplied with the car. So the only thing i have with a bit of length is the tourqe wrench. So after snapping the insides out of the torque wrench, twisting The locknut on itself, i am a little bit pissed:cussing: . I got 4 wheel nuts undone. Is it really that hard to put wheels on properly????? Is it above factory techs to maybe use anti seize on threads, or are they still back on the ark when it comes to servicing??? I am heading up there in a little while. The service manager says it would be because of the heat from the brakes:lmao: So i reckon they are up for a new wheelbrace, new lock nuts, & a new torque wrench. I think i should make the technician show me infront of the service area how i am supposed to change a flat tyre with the supplied wheel brace. I think he would have a hard time undoing the nuts with a rattle gun. I really dont know why they specify torque settings in any manuals, when tossers like this just use the do everything up strip it then back off half a turn method. It is funny how one basic thing like this can ruin a fairly good reputation. I will make my final opinion on their professionalism after a visit to them today. Ill give them a chance, but its not looking good.
Cheers

[NickS]

The "Braindead HSV technicians" are probably 17 year old apprentices :(

It's frustrating and I feel for you ... exactly the reason I no longer take my cars to Holden for servicing. Good luck ...

[WhiteLion]

Hmm... Might be time to check mine. I'll be sure to use the old cast 4-way wheel brace, nothing will break that.

Let's not limit the rage:flipoff: to Holden 'though. Just about every tyre dealer I've gone to has done the same!! Tossers!!

One even broke a couple of nuts on my mates Impreza, and went on to blame "sh1t Subaru wheel nuts", and charged him for replacements. Needless to say, he didn't pay, and they gave up sending reminders after about 18 months.

I wonder how a tyre dealer would take being told the torque that you want the wheel nuts done back up to? Maybe worth specifying, if nothing else to stir them up a bit!!

Steve

[VX2VESS]

prevention.

*request nuts are done by hand when getting a service. if your not there to watch then alway do the next point.

*always undo and retorque all nuts after any service work. leave them rattled up or too tight they will become worse with time.

* always use anti sieze grease (don't have to do it often it remians for a long time)

* use a wheel brace or breaker bar on tight nuts.

[monaroCountry1]

Avalanche sorry...................

Still thats alot better than nuts not torqued up properly, with wheels comming off. This is one of my worst nightmares, happened to me a couple of months back.

Hope everything gets sorted out, good luck.

[andrewslr]

The dealers and tyre retailers should be using torque bars on their rattle guns to ensure that they don't overtighten wheel nuts.

Everyone overtightens, very few use torque bars

[chillicatqld]

I got my ute lowered just b4 new years. The suspension crew did a great job... but they had to take next door (Bob Jane) for wheel alignment (and to put on the 4 new tyres I supplied).
Well after a long drive New Years Day I realise that my steering wheel is about 7% off centre. (Didnt notice any other probs as it was double demerit weekend and stuck to speed limits) .Take that back and they fix that.
Then the next oportunity I get to do some speed (over 110) I feel an awfull vibration. Take it back to Bob Jane to check wheel balance. One tyre out 60 grams - one out 50grams - one out 10grams - other out 15 grams.... what the hell do we pay professionals for these days?

[EvillBill]

I have a few mate who are/have been tyre fitters and when I complained that my wheel nuts were too tight or loose, they would say that it is to do with the side of the car they are on. One side tighten up while the other loosens up. This, however, may be an old tyre fitters wives tale...

[HJCoupe]

I had this problem when i had tyres replaced by a company (something like )throwing stones off bridges):evil: anyway.....noticed brake shudder that night but ignored it for a few days thinking it was my imagination.Decided to check the wheel nuts,2 or 3 out of every wheel was super tight,enuff to jarr my arm with the brace and the others were average. I redone them with the torque wrench and hey presto! no more brake shudder.
I know these tyre places r busy but a torque wrench and an extra 1min wouldnt hurt.

[clixanup]

I have a few mate who are/have been tyre fitters and when I complained that my wheel nuts were too tight or loose, they would say that it is to do with the side of the car they are on. One side tighten up while the other loosens up. This, however, may be an old tyre fitters wives tale...

Personally, I don't think we can turn 'em hard/fast enough to make a difference.

Although, I was once told by an old white-haired panel beater (who has since passed :( ) that "back in the day" Dodge used to use directional wheel nuts. ie: left handed thread on the right and vice versa....

And FWIW, Bob Jane have always been crap at balancing. I stopped going there because I'd always have to go back and get them to re-balance my wheels. Their alignments are pretty good though.

[OzJavelin]

Personally, I don't think we can turn 'em hard/fast enough to make a difference.

Although, I was once told by an old white-haired panel beater (who has since passed :( ) that "back in the day" Dodge used to use directional wheel nuts. ie: left handed thread on the right and vice versa....

And FWIW, Bob Jane have always been crap at balancing. I stopped going there because I'd always have to go back and get them to re-balance my wheels. Their alignments are pretty good though.

Yep .. Ma Mopar kept using left-hand wheel nuts until at least the mid seventies .. especially on big C-bodies (aka Dodge Phoenix). They are:
1. Pain in the butt to get LH-thread studs and nuts
2. Pain in the butt to remember to loosen/tighten correctly
Great in theory, but no real practical application ..
I ALWAYS watch tyre places undo the wheelnuts on my Mopars, just to make sure they don't bust those LH-thread studs by overzealos us of rattle gun in the "wrong" direction ..

[Drewie]

Does anyone who uses a rattle guy in their line of work know exactly what settings are on a rattle gun, I would imagine they would have a couple of settings like high and low or what ever, does anyone know what the settings relate to in the way of lb/ft or nm. As all the dealers use them you would think that the settings would be some where close to what they should be.
Or do they just keep tightening if the trigger is depressed.

[clubbie]

Avalanche

I have always asked for the wheel nuts to be torqued by hand. Only place that I know of that does this without asking is Beaurepairs.

Anyway like someone else posted better tight than loose. A mate had 8K damage done to his 6mth old Bimmer when a service techo didnt tighten the nuts properly. Turned out the techo was their most experienced and aged in his forties.:confused:

Clubbie

[Avalanche]

Just got back, so all up around 5 hours wasted. Service manager wouldnt come & see us, so i asked where was the technician??? ohh he is off today. Isnt that convenient. Service manager sends the leading hand up. Ok are u feeling strong buddy, Have a go. No way are these coming off,mmmmmm i hate having to see customers that have had shit services done by other mechanics. Our reply was that u better get the service manager out of hiding down the back, because until i see him blow a hernia or have a stroke trying to undo my wheel nuts im not leaving. The toss finally turned up & told us that we should just call holden assist which happens to be NRMA to undo the wheel nuts. Yeah right out in the middle of the bush just wait 5 hours for holden assist. So he came out & had a go & the lock nut tool wouldnt even fit into the locknut because it has twisted so much. All this while a few customers were watching with interest. I dont think he knows what a wheel is. Ohh and wait , we havnt had this happen before. They talk so much crap i cant help but laugh. I asked how Alex the general manager would like me ringing on his mobile while on holiday to see if wants to come in & undo my wheel nuts for me. I was then told he cant hes over seas. No more servicing at holden or hsv anymore, regardless of warranty . Its safer getting it done else where. Ended up gettin a new wheelbrace locknuts are getting posted down. And the leading hand assured me that he would use a torque bar when doing up wheels. They apparently do all wheels up the same way. When asked whether its his fault for pressuring the techies he assured me that he doesnt pressure them to smash out the services. I tell u what they should make the monkeys doing the work more accountable. I bet if they were facing a bill for $700 for a new wheel because my wheel brace stripped & scratched the wheel, they would think twice about smashing the wheels on with a rattle gun. They should be made to come out & deal with the customer face to face. Bet the quality would change quick smart.
Time to pm a few sponsers in regards to servicing.

[motomk]

I should say that the wheel brace supplied with my VY II, a shiny metal item, is very average and after one go, I relaised that it would strip wheel nuts or strip itself to bits!
However the black coloured wheel brace which came with my VTII SS has a hexagonal shaped head and is 100 times better. Guess which one I now carry around with me!??!!!!
I also carry one of those cross wheel braces bought from any Auto parts store, however they are not so good for initially undoing a wheelnut if it is done up tight.

motomk

[Avalanche]

wheel brace supplied with the ava is quite a good piece of kit. Just not heavy duty enough to undo wheel nuts done up to 180+nm. As for settings on rattle guns there maybe differing settings , but i know u can get differing torque bars that limit the torque applied. As for the old bloke who left the bimmer wheels loose, its some of those guys that are just as bad. Still stuck in the dark ages, only tool in the cantilever tool box is a massive nut fu%$#$er ( aka shifter) & a slege hammer.

[xshore]

The black one supplied with my vt2 ss is half bent and the nut wasn't even that tight. I usually use my gf's el-cheapo cross wheel brace.

[macca33]

The best bet, IMO, is to get an old style forged wheel brace like they used to put in the old Commodores, up to VS, I think. At least that will allow you to put a bit of leverage onto a wheel nut.

The pressed metal one in my VX looks a bit dodgy to me.

Regards,

Macca

[clixanup]

The pressed metal one in my VX looks a bit dodgy to me.

It's garbage. You pay $$$$ for a new Holden, so how's about some decent tools? FFS, you get better tools when you buy a Hyundai which costs $13,990. :flamin:

The piece of crap Holden calls a wheelbrace doesn't look like it'd survive more than one or two uses.

And, here's the kicker: You know the pointy end of it? The book says you should use that to remove the centre caps on a Calais. Riiight. You ever tried it? IT DOESN'T F$%KIN WORK!!

So now I carry 2 long flat-head screwdrivers to remove the centre caps and a $5 cross brace from K-mart which works much better than the crap provided. At least the jack is halfway decent - though nowhere near as good as the VL jack.

Here's hoping that the VE comes with a better kit. :flamin:

Edit: Sorry for taking this so far O/T.

[VooDoo]

Those pressed metal ones are perfect for removing the paint on the inside of the wheel nut holes. I threw mine in the bin just so nobody else could use it. I have a decent X brace now

[Glenn@Autowerks]

Just got back, so all up around 5 hours wasted. Service manager wouldnt come & see us, so i asked where was the technician??? ohh he is off today. Isnt that convenient. Service manager sends the leading hand up.

If I was you I would send a stern letter to the dealer principle out lining all your concerns and that the person which is suppose to manage the area would not assist by talking to one of his customers.

[Hammer]

I have a few mate who are/have been tyre fitters and when I complained that my wheel nuts were too tight or loose, they would say that it is to do with the side of the car they are on. One side tighten up while the other loosens up. This, however, may be an old tyre fitters wives tale...
it's a old wives tale mate... as the nuts themselfs arnt turning in agreat velocity the actual hub in diameter is turning so i cant see them working theseves loose. Especially when torqued to correct ft-lb's which streches the threads, and then clams the nut/bolt into that torque range.



Is it above factory techs to maybe use anti seize on threads, or are they still back on the ark when it comes to servicing??? I am heading up there in a little while. The service manager says it would be because of the heat from the brakes:lmao: So i reckon they are up for a new wheelbrace, new lock nuts, & a new torque wrench
Mate I don't belive in putting anti-sieze on critical bolts that are under quite alot of exerted forces (stop starts,drags etc) as they make the threads slippery and more likly for the nuts to slip the toque tessing and "maybe" undo.... all wheel studs imo should be unlubed...

[Ausmartin1]

Anitseize is fine in small amounts on threads and - kept clean - all the torque then goes to the the taper to hold the wheel on.

Never on any car we have have owned has a nut undone or come loose at all.
-But they were all done up up with torque wrench when brought home from any Tyre or Warranty service.

Have known friends who's wheels came off from the studs snaping due to continual overtigtening. Both under and overtorqing is dangerous and tyre places - service bays should be inspected by safety inspectors and the business owners fined - Esp overtorqued studs are stretched by an un relenting impact ratchet style gun with no torque bar can be quite amazing.
Try 350% over (3.5 times more torque) with some units on a good air pressure

This can lead to fatigue cracks resulting in catastropic failer when you least expect it and wheel go bye bye.

[shepp0]

Does anyone who uses a rattle guy in their line of work know exactly what settings are on a rattle gun, I would imagine they would have a couple of settings like high and low or what ever, does anyone know what the settings relate to in the way of lb/ft or nm. As all the dealers use them you would think that the settings would be some where close to what they should be.
Or do they just keep tightening if the trigger is depressed.


it depends on the gun, most will have a few foward settings (1,2,3,4 etc) and full power in reverse, on each setting they will only tighten to a certain point, what that might be also depends on the gun, for instance setting 1 may goto 100nm then 2 may go on to 150nm and so on, you gotta remember there are and held guns on the market that can produce as much as 1000nm, ive heard of guns that can snap the heads off wheel bolts in reverse........

torque bars are handy but i wouldnt rely on them (unless i got one that went say 20-30nm tighter than specified) as to reach that maximum torque you relly need to hammer them in (hold the trigger and just keep pounding it) which most people dont.

in the end it really depends on how lazy the tech is, at my work we usually do the nuts up on a low setting then finish them off with a torque wrench

we get cars in at work sometimes where the wheels nuts are so tight, 90% of the rattleguns in the shop cant undo them, i cannot imagine someone having a go with a 30cm wheelbrace

[JamesL]

I hate tyre places that use a rattle gun to tighen my nuts.
I now always come home and loosen them all then go for 100nm.
I still have shakes from front end through.. could be my rotor's are rat sh#ted from the crazy tightening from those rattle guns... :(

[ralcool]

SupaCheap 3/8" Torque Wrench $39.95
19mm 3/8" Deep socket, $11.50

Stored in my boot. Peace of mind after setting nuts correctly; Priceless.

I am seriously sick of tyre fitters who are unable to choose a good quality socket to remove my wheel nuts without damage to the rims or remove weights without scratching the surface.

Bob Jane have had to PAINT my previously shadow chrome mags, because the dipsh!ts did SO much damge in one day. "New wheels?"- the manager laughed before telling me they were no longer available (AMG siege in VQ offset), and I should be reasonable. 3 attempts later the paint job is- a pitiful imitation, and will never be the same.

Message here : BEWARE OF 19/21mm DOUBLE ENDED SOCKETS some tyre places use, they rip the sh!t out of deep holed wheels.

Sean


Have a nice day.

[Cal.oz]

when I bought my car, they didnt even supply a wheelbrace. I didnt realise until i was stuck on the side of the road trying to get my tyre off :flipoff:

Needless to say they got a lovely call from me when i could get to a phone.

never taking my car to a dealership again.

[HSVMAN]

Whilst somer of the comments here are a little OTT, i have seen it all ( been involved in motor trade for many years starting on the spanners) wheel nuts come loose, overtightened, stripped, you name it.
Worst case was last year and the culprits were a well known tyre specialist - Dodge SRT10 Pick-up, just had huge 24" chromes fitted. Owner had driven it round a bit, claimed the steering wheel only shook for a few seconds before the L/F wheel came off taking the wing mirror with it and re-arranging the fender. It then bounced through a bridge railing into the drink never to be seen again. The Tyre specialists had to fork out for a full set of new wheels from the states plus repair the truck which was only 2 weeks old. Fortunately no-one was hurt.
Turns out a spacer was missing from the hub and the torsional stress fractured the studs.
Whilst this is one of the extreme cases, I still use that particular dealer because I know them, the guy who fitted the wheel was given a good kick in the arse and I'm sure they will never forget it.
Unfortunately it sometimes takes mistakes to learn but if mechanics are not following normal basic procedures out of laziness then something should be done particularly if someones safety is concerned

[Hammer]

theres actually a battery driven rattle gun out buy bluepoint that can deliver 1000nm on a 14.4v battery which could snap a stud bilt quite easily

[Avalanche]

I think once i get a chance to check i will be looking at the studs and most likley be replacing them. The last thing i need is a wheel letting fly while towing the trailer. It did take the tossers an hour to undo & redo all the nuts. I would say the only way they got the locknuts off was to hammer a socket on & then rattle them off. I reckon that if i got holden assist to come & the put a big extension they would have snapped every stud. My decision is made now , extended warranty or not it is in my best interest safety wise to not go back to the dealership again. Just call Holden assist, my fu#$%ng arse. Any work getting done will be by one of the sponsers on here. I take back anything that i have said was good about this dealers service area. Its a pity that the sales side gets let down by such a piss poor service manager & service dept.

[ralcool]

The burning question on my lips is... If the wheel nuts are overtightened (and the extremes we are reading about) then wouldn't the studs be overstretched / stressed now, and not trustworthy?

Somebody mentioned on a thread long ago, that ford studs are 'better' and will retrofit.

Cheers.. Sean

[Hammer]

comes down to how much heat treatment the studs have had and what sorta oil it's cooked in (for the durability of the stud) basically when you torque something it "stretches the threads" the ammount of times the stud could depend on a variety of factors. one which would be most important is the force require of the torque setting and basically the other one is the quaility of the bolt in grading... usually 8.8 can take a fair bit.....


dunno if this helps...

[Nic_S]

yeah that sux

[Hammer]

yeah that sux

quite a informative post there nick :) :lmao::lmao::lmao:

[NickS]

quite a informative post there nick :) :lmao::lmao::lmao:
That's about the 6th 3 word post he has made in the last half hour :lmao:

[Avalanche]

NickS , what is with captain dodgy brakes???? Have u lunched the brakes on the coupe4 already????????:bawl:

[Hammer]

That's about the 6th 3 word post he has made in the last half hour :lmao:
looks like he's up there with you eh Nick :stick:
next he'll be another pimp on the shoutbox... :P

[brettarmst]

this problem is caused by workshops that use cheeps air guns with only one torque setting both both directions, they need to adjust these guns for maximum torque to get the wheel nuts off but then forget to adjust the setting before putting your wheel nuts back on, over-tightning them.

A good gun will have max torque to undo and an adjustable setting to tighten the nuts.

I still request no guns when I drop my car in for a service. Slipped while undoing tight nuts of the GF's car and ended up with 4 stiches in my hand when it hit the road.

[Hammer]

NASTY Brett,
But you can regulate the air supplied to the guns to get a resonable close torque setting... via a chart that converts psi/bar to torque pressures...

we do that with hyd equipment...

[Tonner]

Whats happened, dont they use the Torque bar thingos when they rattle them up for you?

[Victor]

Autobarn have extendable wheel braces - stretch out from about a foot to 2 feet. Buy a top quality socket to go with it and removing even the tightest nuts becomes seriously easier. :diddy: And they are not expensive.

I wouldn't even consider using the junk that came with my VS and currently, WK Statesman.

[sle383]

Well, on Sunday i decide its time that i undo each wheel at a time & torque the wheel nuts up properly, with a torque wrench. I shit u not. I have found that any slight vibes dissapear when this is done. BUUUTT gee the wheel nuts were a bit tight, so much so that it stripped the wheel brace that is supplied with the car. So the only thing i have with a bit of length is the tourqe wrench. So after snapping the insides out of the torque wrench, twisting The locknut on itself, i am a little bit pissed:cussing: . I got 4 wheel nuts undone. Is it really that hard to put wheels on properly????? Is it above factory techs to maybe use anti seize on threads, or are they still back on the ark when it comes to servicing??? I am heading up there in a little while. The service manager says it would be because of the heat from the brakes:lmao: So i reckon they are up for a new wheelbrace, new lock nuts, & a new torque wrench. I think i should make the technician show me infront of the service area how i am supposed to change a flat tyre with the supplied wheel brace. I think he would have a hard time undoing the nuts with a rattle gun. I really dont know why they specify torque settings in any manuals, when tossers like this just use the do everything up strip it then back off half a turn method. It is funny how one basic thing like this can ruin a fairly good reputation. I will make my final opinion on their professionalism after a visit to them today. Ill give them a chance, but its not looking good.
Cheers
Torque up every wheel nut i dont think so, in dealerships time costs money.

[sle383]

Does anyone who uses a rattle guy in their line of work know exactly what settings are on a rattle gun, I would imagine they would have a couple of settings like high and low or what ever, does anyone know what the settings relate to in the way of lb/ft or nm. As all the dealers use them you would think that the settings would be some where close to what they should be.
Or do they just keep tightening if the trigger is depressed.

In my workshop most rattle guns would be on the highest setting (tight) but it depends on the air compressor pressure how tight your wheels go on, or the idiots that keep going till the rattle gun stops turning the nut.