Typhoon vs Clubsport

[Lucifer]

Flicking through the latest edition of "Motor" and I noticed that the Typhoon was rated "best ever Australian muscle car". I know this is a Holden forum but credit where credit is due. It seems the 6sp auto F6 is a real weapon and although the Clubsport wasn't disgraced, it was nevertheless beaten in every department.

I can't help but ponder a few months back when the decission was the other way around or maybe my memory is fading with age. Still I think the better the opposition build their cars the better Holden will make the next model.

Has anyone here actually given a Typhoon a run in the real world? Are they really as good as the magazines make out? I have seen a video on this forum of a guy in WA with a moddified F6 that made the hair on my neck stand up.

[Nursing_Mother]

Damm it.......i want one...good thing i cant afford it,i will have to suffer the LS1 for a while yet:bawl:

[Danv8]

Each time I see the word muscle car I keep on picturing a pre 80's car with a hi po big block V8 big rear tyres and a hell of a ride and sound.

I just don't find the new cars to have any muscle car image anymore.

The phoon is nice but I rather a V8 any day of the week over a turbo 6.

[llucie]

I have driven my friends F6 six speed manual ute (replaced a BA XR8 manual ute) - the F6 leaves the XR8 for dead , particulary in the handling department probably because of the lighter engine weight - he is soon to get a F6 auto sedan (which he has driven) and claims the new 6 speed auto leaves the manual as a poor second choice .

[chops]

Has anyone here actually given a Typhoon a run in the real world? Are they really as good as the magazines make out?

There are a couple of Typhoon owners on this forum, and another "soon to be" from what I hear....

[brettarmst]

yeah, if only holden would read the review and apply some of the typhoon "qualities" accross the commodore range. (and then sell them for the price of a ford)

[Martin_D]

Typhoon is the ONLY truly Australian muslecar.....or at least the only one with an Aussie designed and built engine, not some Canadian or Mexican shoe-in. Food for thought :teach:

[Aus8]

Typhoon is the ONLY truly Australian muslecar.....or at least the only one with an Aussie designed and built engine,
A very good point! We should be proud that a car with our own engine and engineering can run how well it does against the American engined V8 Holdens and Fords.

Cheers
Aus8

[YLD57L]

LOL @ Tunas point. That's a conversation killer! :banana: Plus a decent point, although not all there is to it to the motoring public. You are only talking about a power plant and although an engine can complete a car it doesn't make the car. The old 250 despite being such Grandpa's axe isn't Aussie architecture, but you can't argue that the Ford is more Aussie. :moon: A spanner may be thrown into the works... imagine considering our cars don't have a local heart! But in reality car companies are now so global the local product is barely more than a local bean counters exercise. :p

Australia's first 'muscle cars' had a yank sourced power plants (not to mention parent companies) - doesn't make them any less important as cars are looked back on as a reflection of economic and social times they come from.

[cosmo vyss]

The typhoon is an excellent car and deserves the cred its been given.
They also said that it was the better car but if you follwed your heart you would get the clubby. As said b4 better quality cars being built by ford can only result in better quality holdens. Only good can come of this
JB

[Aus8]

Has it been confirmed yet that a 6 Speed Auto F6 Typhoon will run a 12 second pass Edit only in full street trim?? Im guessing it would if the stockies unedited are pulling 13.3's - 13.5's . These things are looking tastier by the minute hrmmmm ....... tempting. For once I actually love the look of the Ford over the equivilent HSV. I hold no brand loyalty I just buy whats best at the time and its been a long while since that was a Ford. Could the tables be turning for me. Had the ute a while could be time for a change. Ill sleep on it.

Aus8

[YLD57L]

If I had the cash I would have both! But there are plenty other cars I need to buy as well, so the Typhoon will have to get in line *wakes up*. :confused:

[nicholasjoe]

ive gone for a lap in the m6 BA Typhoon, which was quite impressive, then went for a spin in the HSV VX 255kw LS1 which was equally better in my opinion. (being an older and less powerful car on kw/nm scales compared to the typhoon).

Deffinetly found that the burble of 5.7ltrs of juice under the bonnet was more satisfying and gut wrenching.

[Bazz]

Raced a Pursuit ute at Hidden Valley and although he beat me cause of reaction time, I had a better ET by .2 sec. His was auto.

[Dacious]

I find it a bit strange that it would be proclaimed as 'all-Aussie' when the basis of the motor is a Ford US design and uses Mexican transmissions - I thought it used a Garrett turbo. Garrett Air Research is a US company who make things like starter motors for SR71 Blackbirds.

All the same, it is an achievement Ford Oz can be proud of, in the sense they slid it past the bean counters. I think for 60 large the interior should be better. The bodykit/stripes to me looks like someone watched 'Too Fast, Too Furious' too many times, but I acknowledge others like it. I still think Ford gets it's hero colours ever so slightly off. The new hero blue can't make up it's mind whether it's Turismo or Impulse.

As far as the car itself, is it still limited to 230kph as the BAs were? If so, it is not any faster than an SV6 and 20K less than an SV8. I can't find any specifications, factory or otherwise, which include a speed figure. We know what a SS, CV8, GTO and GTS will do flat out. 230ks would be well inside redline in the top two gears of the manual or auto.

Can it be a Supercar if it needs to be speed limited? A dirty ol' $35K SV8 can exceed those speeds by 20km/h. A Clubsport will beat that speed by 40km/h. A GTS will go 50-60km/h faster.

Aside from anything else, the ones I've heard make all the wrong sounds.

End of the day, I suppose it is an alternative and forces HSV to lift its' game. More a triumph of PR and making strengths of weaknesses.

[VX8255]

My friend has one of these 6 speed auto F6's goes ok went 13.3 with just a BMC.
Street Tuna do you know when the ZF 6-speed auto edit software is available?

[Lucifer]

Saw a purple one on the M1 yesterday and it looked quite good. A little too boy racer for my liking but it stood out from 300m behind.

As far as top speed coming into the equation I think some of us need a reality check. To say that there is a problem with speed limiting a car to 230km/h is a bit absurd. How many people here have exceeded this speed? Most race tracks will have you stuggling to get above 240km/h. Not many do 1/4 mile times with an E.T. 145mp/h or higher. So unless you live in the NT you really will never know whether it has a speed limiter or not.

I have only ever done over 200km/h (on a private road of course) and I think the important thing to remember about speed is this: every time you double your speed you quadruple your stopping distance. It takes you twice as long to stop at 250km/h than it does at 200km/h. TWICE! I hope most people on this forum have never tested their vehicles' top speed.

[RIDE:42]

Taxi :spew:

[LT8888]

Can it be a Supercar if it needs to be speed limited? A dirty ol' $35K SV8 can exceed those speeds by 20km/h. A Clubsport will beat that speed by 40km/h. A GTS will go 50-60km/h faster.



All AMG and M cars are limited to 250km/h. I don't think you doubt that theseare supercars?

[Dacious]

As far as top speed coming into the equation I think some of us need a reality check. To say that there is a problem with speed limiting a car to 230km/h is a bit absurd. How many people here have exceeded this speed? Most race tracks will have you stuggling to get above 240km/h. Not many do 1/4 mile times with an E.T. 145mp/h or higher. So unless you live in the NT you really will never know whether it has a speed limiter or not.



He-lloooooooo! We're talking supposed Supercars. The ones the mags take to an airstrip to actually find out 'what she'll do'. So why didn't they?

Whether we go there or not, the statement is - this is Australia's best Supercar. I would submit if it is speed limited, such that a garden variety SV6 is as fast, then it is not. Worse - if the reason for the speed limiting is the aero causes instability which was previously the given reason - in the words of John McEnroe 'You can not be serious!'

How would the buyer of a Lamborghini Diablo feel if they sold him a car speed limited because it 'will never need to go that fast'? I mean, none of the owners of them are likely to explore top speeds, either. But you'd feel gypped if you knew they restricted it to it's fastest speed in third gear because they think you look like a poser!

We all talk about whether Car A or Car B can do twelve second quarters, but the vast majority will not be dragged, or even hit a dyno. And if we did, we wouldn't achieve that time. Doesn't mean we're not interested. It's not a value judgement on build, or looks, or overtaking performance. But if you say 'Supercar' that immediately implies The Fastest. In this case that is so not true it's almost a joke.

That's why we have Top Gear, and magazines to test these things. If they're not going to be serious and test maximum performance, why bother?

As far as the M and AMG go, the owners can pay to have the speed limiters removed. In the case of Mercedes their 'supercar' is the non-speed limited McLaren-built 600hp V12.

[2001 ITR]

As far as top speed coming into the equation I think some of us need a reality check. To say that there is a problem with speed limiting a car to 230km/h is a bit absurd. How many people here have exceeded this speed?
Phillip Island Sprints I've gone 260kmh indicated. I have gone near 250kmh a few times at Sandown in quick cars. Vmax and full throttle is a small percentage of a full racing lap and top speed doesn't really count for much according to Carroll Smith.


It takes you twice as long to stop at 250km/h than it does at 200km/h. TWICE! I'd say about 1.5 times your 200kmh stopping distance.

The 250kmh limit on German cars is more a political move to appease the green movement than it is a reflection on their engineering. Lots of quotes from engineers saying that their cars would fo 280-310kmh without a speed limiter.

[ExAreSix]

He-lloooooooo! We're talking supposed Supercars. The ones the mags take to an airstrip to actually find out 'what she'll do'. So why didn't they?

Whether we go there or not, the statement is - this is Australia's best Supercar. I would submit if it is speed limited, such that a garden variety SV6 is as fast, then it is not. Worse - if the reason for the speed limiting is the aero causes instability which was previously the given reason - in the words of John McEnroe 'You can not be serious!'

How would the buyer of a Lamborghini Diablo feel if they sold him a car speed limited because it 'will never need to go that fast'? I mean, none of the owners of them are likely to explore top speeds, either. But you'd feel gypped if you knew they restricted it to it's fastest speed in third gear because they think you look like a poser!

We all talk about whether Car A or Car B can do twelve second quarters, but the vast majority will not be dragged, or even hit a dyno. And if we did, we wouldn't achieve that time. Doesn't mean we're not interested. It's not a value judgement on build, or looks, or overtaking performance. But if you say 'Supercar' that immediately implies The Fastest. In this case that is so not true it's almost a joke.

That's why we have Top Gear, and magazines to test these things. If they're not going to be serious and test maximum performance, why bother?

As far as the M and AMG go, the owners can pay to have the speed limiters removed. In the case of Mercedes their 'supercar' is the non-speed limited McLaren-built 600hp V12.

He-lloooooooo! No one said it was a supercar... :stick:

And like Lucifer said, the amount of people who will ever actually hit the limiter in these cars, is such a small minority, it's a mute point

Yes, you can pay to remove the limiter on the BMWs and Mercs. You can also pay to remove the limiter on the Typhoon. Can anyone spell EDIT?

I'll guarantee no-one here considered the speed limiter when they bought their car. Even YOU!

[BA$TAD]

Taxi :spew:
That the best you could come up with? That "joke" is getting kinda old don't you think? :stupid:

In any case originally I wasn't a fan of the Typhoon when first released, but they seem to be a weapon of a car and seem to be gaining some popularity. Could be my next car.

[flappist]

I suspect the speed limiting is more public liability & political based than technology. Remember it was FORD who wore the brunt of the "supercar scare" of the early 70's, neither Holden nor Chrysler had released the XU2 or E56.
I have been 250km/h in my GT-P and both of my Typhoons several times (Barkly Hway) and they did it easily but drank huge amounts of fuel and were tiring as you have to look a long way ahead because it takes a long time to stop even with brembo brakes. Australia does not have autobahns and such speeds are quite dangerous except at certain times in certain places. For those who have not been accross NT in some places the visibility is over 10km and there is NOTHING, it is like driving on the ocean.

Two years ago Motor took a XR6T to 307km/h and frightened themselves. An anonymous F6 owner in WA has had his well over 280km/h (GPS checked) and reckons it sits ok.

I drove the VZ clubby before buying my F6 and chose it for a number of reasons, some of which were to do with the dealers and tech support, others to do with feel and price. There is nothing wrong with the clubby at all and I would be proud to drive one anytime.

[Martin_D]

Who cares about the Ford speed limiter? I can remove it in a couple of minutes, and add another 5psi of boost while I am at it! :burnout:

[chops]

When does Mat's get done?
Delivery day?

[Martin_D]

I would say so.....

[Abdula Butcher]

Does Capa have edit software for the ZF 6 speed auto, if not when will it be able to Edit there Auto's..

[technic]

I would go a clubby. I would sell my left nut for a VZ :)

[Aus8]

I would go a clubby. I would sell my left nut for a VZ :)
Ebay is there and waiting.......

[XtRmn8]

The edit is already ready for the ZF 6 speed auto. This has already been done, results can be found on the XRTurbo forum!

Also XR's are limited to 230km/h and FPV's are limited to 250km/h and as Tuna has said this can be removed with the edit.

[Abdula Butcher]

The edit is already ready for the ZF 6 speed auto. This has already been done, results can be found on the XRTurbo forum!

any chance of a link, or PM me a link. Coudn't find it.
This is good news, could you tell all the Capa Edit tuners that THE 6 SPEED AUTO SOFTWARE is ready to go, because they dont know about it either:teach:

[F6Mauz]

Taxi :spew:


Your breaking my heart:nopity: :p

[laughing@u]

Your breaking my heart:nopity: :p
Hey take him for a ride and you will break his spirit also....;)

[RIDE:42]

Hey take him for a ride and you will break his spirit also....;) not as quick as i though they were ;)

[Redline]

When does Mat's get done?
Delivery day? He has to get the car first ;)

[F6Mauz]

not as quick as i though they were ;)


:lol: :lol:

[LS2.6L]

He has to get the car first ;)

Yeah Redline is enjoying his stock exhaust cam only space shuttle too much at the moment. Dweeb :bounce:

[LT8888]

As far as the M and AMG go, the owners can pay to have the speed limiters removed. In the case of Mercedes their 'supercar' is the non-speed limited McLaren-built 600hp V12.

I think you're referring to the SLR, which is a supercharged V8.

Also Merc won't even consider removing the limiter unless one has at least a racing level license. Don't think BMW even gives the option.

[VTSSDUDE]

Mmm, I don't think of any six cylinder a muscle car.

I would rather push my Holden then drive a Ford.

Cheers,
Jim :cool:

[VZKOOP]

Mmm, I don't think of any six cylinder a muscle car.

I would rather push my Holden then drive a Ford.

Cheers,
Jim :cool:
Well you push on Jim....... I'd rather drive a Lada than push anything.....:p
Maybe I'm just getting old and lazy....:whip:

[Redline]

Yeah Redline is enjoying his stock exhaust cam only space shuttle too much at the moment. Dweeb :bounce: still worth more than that go kart you're getting around in :slap:

[flappist]

not as quick as i though they were ;)

Much quicker eh?.......

You may have been a bit confused as it is often difficult to judge speed and distance using only one eye...

[pah]

Yep - I agree!! The XR6T sounds like a good bit of gear. For a start, the 6 speed auto would mean NO MORE Gen III M6 clutch hassles.

I also like the fact that it makes good grunt down low where most drivers can use it. The biggest surprise about the Gen III is its doughiness down low. It reminds me of a 2L Datto Turbo I owned years ago - doughy down low and off boost and goes like a cut cat up high. Apart from the great grunt in the standard car, the XR6T is very easy to upgrade and that's a big plus. Something around $1000 buys a boost to around 300 kw's I believe. I'm thinking of the APS system.

I steered away from the XR6T when I bought my 2003 SV8 because the XR6T is heavier and weightier. The VE sounds like it will be at as heavy so kiss goodbye one + for the VE SV8 if that's the case.

Having realised that I've lost something around $7k per year, I think I'll check out resale values in the RED BOOK or similar with a view to minimising depreciation with my next car. $120 / week (SV8) depreciation sounds a bit savage to me. I guess the XR6T might be similar. Last time I checked the RED BOOK, it listed the WRX as a car that does a reasonable job of holding its resale. I didn't check the XR6T.




PAH

[Brendan24688]

I find it a bit strange that it would be proclaimed as 'all-Aussie' when the basis of the motor is a Ford US design and uses Mexican transmissions - I thought it used a Garrett turbo. Garrett Air Research is a US company who make things like starter motors for SR71 Blackbirds.

All the same, it is an achievement Ford Oz can be proud of, in the sense they slid it past the bean counters. I think for 60 large the interior should be better. The bodykit/stripes to me looks like someone watched 'Too Fast, Too Furious' too many times, but I acknowledge others like it. I still think Ford gets it's hero colours ever so slightly off. The new hero blue can't make up it's mind whether it's Turismo or Impulse.

As far as the car itself, is it still limited to 230kph as the BAs were? If so, it is not any faster than an SV6 and 20K less than an SV8. I can't find any specifications, factory or otherwise, which include a speed figure. We know what a SS, CV8, GTO and GTS will do flat out. 230ks would be well inside redline in the top two gears of the manual or auto.

Can it be a Supercar if it needs to be speed limited? A dirty ol' $35K SV8 can exceed those speeds by 20km/h. A Clubsport will beat that speed by 40km/h. A GTS will go 50-60km/h faster.

Aside from anything else, the ones I've heard make all the wrong sounds.

End of the day, I suppose it is an alternative and forces HSV to lift its' game. More a triumph of PR and making strengths of weaknesses.



I know hey. I can't believe it! What the HELL are FPV doing. I mean everyday i do around 200 going to work and dropping the kids at school. It's awesome through the city traffic. :slap: . What the HELL are you thinking is probably better, the majority of people who buy these cars are company executives and office workers. Sure you get some real enthusiasts who want to make minor mods but basically use it as an everyday car, Then you can sometimes get your performance nuts who modify everything. Now out of those people the smallest amount would actually experience trouble with the speed limiter. I think we are talking less than 5%. And anyone who has trouble (who will most likley have the edit anyway if they are modifying) can simply buy the edit for a little over $1000.00.

Cheers Brendan:banghead: :banghead:

[F6Mauz]

Much quicker eh?.......

You may have been a bit confused as it is often difficult to judge speed and distance using only one eye...

I think he may have been sarcastic:yup:

He's seen my typhoon go. Just a bit of tongue in cheek.

Well i think anyway lol :banana:

[RIDE:42]

just to make it simple for the retards THIS IS A HOLDEN FORUM so it is a good chance most here are holden owners :doh:

CSV_LS1 yer i not a bad looking taxi you picked up but it is hard to keep an eye on you and the road in front of me :burnout:

[Abdula Butcher]

just to make it simple for the retards THIS IS A HOLDEN FORUM so it is a good chance most here are holden owners :doh:

CSV_LS1 yer i not a bad looking taxi you picked up but it is hard to keep an eye on you and the road in front of me :burnout:
Man your input is of glowing proportions....Australia’s quickest taxi, have you ever driven one?
I forgot you use a guide dog to get around and read the forums in brail.google

[flappist]

CSV_LS1 yer i not a bad looking taxi you picked up but it is hard to keep an eye on you and the road in front of me :burnout:

Shouldn't be, they will both be in the same place....:wave:

[Phoon Hoon]

Hi all,

I joined the forum just to have a say on this topic. Don't worry, I'm not a troll and I hope I can offer a balanced view on this topic.

Yes, I have a new (7 weeks old) BF 6 speed auto BF Typhoon in Toxic (the bright lime green colour). It is stock, except for a performance exhaust I had fitted for an additional $1,200 at the time of sale. At this point in time it has about 5,000km on the clock.

I have just returned from a car cruise over the weekend with a mate who owns a new VZ HSV Clubbie. We live in south-west Sydney. Went through Mittagong and down to Kangaroo Valley, then across to Berri and south to Bateman’s Bay for lunch at the Golf Club. We then went to Braidwood (had a beer at the hotel) and onto Queanbeyan, where we stayed the night. Home the next day after a photo shoot at the Lake George lookout.

Besides being a great trip, it was a good chance to compare the two cars – some similarities and many differences.

We had a period of time (about 100km) where we swapped cars.

I can’t talk much about 0-100 accelleration, but the two cars are probably about the same. The area where my auto Phoon killed the clubbie is on rolling acceleration. When we were overtaking other cars (launching from about 100km/hr) I left him for dead.

This was really noticeable through the drive from Bateman’s Bay to Braidwood. An awesome drive – about 60km of good quality, up and down winding road with enough straights to get the power down effectively.

Scott (my Clubbie mate) led the way, and coming out of corners on full acceleration, I needed to stop and slow down for fear of ramming him up the arse! He said the same thing when we swapped cars – the Typhoon’s engine/auto combination ensured brilliant, efficient powerdown that the Clubbie couldn’t match. I really think that the auto slusher made the difference - my car was always put bang smack into the sweet spot of the rev range before Scott could even change gear in the Clubby.

Scott confessed that he felt the same when we swapped cars.

The Typhoon is awesome launching at speed. I love manual shifting into 3rd (using the sequential sports shift) at 110km/h and blasting through to near the rev limit before upshifting to 4th... by this time you're looking at about 190km/h.

So where was the Clubby better? Its tyres were far better than my standard Dunlops. I can't wait to change... will have to turn the traction control off to wear them out a bit!

Also, the Clubbie killed my car for fuel economy. Over a 700km trip, the C/S managed 10.9L/100km, whereas my Phoon only returned figures of 13.1!! I’m hoping that this will improve when my engine beds in. At the time of the trip, I'd only done 4,000km – The HSV had 18,000kms on it.

The Clubby also had that lovely V8 burble that mine lacks, even with the new exhaust kit. Then again, some people get off on the turbo whistle!

In finishing, I think that both cars have their advantages. I love my Typhoon, Scott loves his Clubby (as, no doubt, would the majority of this forum).

Hope you enjoyed this read.

Clayton

[Nursing_Mother]

Good thread mate:thumbsup:

[YLD57L]

Nice post POON HOON. :bravo:

[Phoon Hoon]

Nice post POON HOON. :bravo:

I hope when you typed my username you made a typo... I told u I wasn't here to troll, so settle down. The Clubsport has a lot going for it, but so does the Phoon. Blind Freddy can see that.

[YLD57L]

I hope when you typed my username you made a typo... I told u I wasn't here to troll, so settle down. The Clubsport has a lot going for it, but so does the Phoon. Blind Freddy can see that.

All is good, try not to be so defensive, I was commending you on an entertaining and well written post. ;)

A bit of trivia so you can understand where I come from: I myself before the Typhoon was around I made a choice between a Monaro and an XR6T, in a (/my) perfect world I would have both.

[STATIE]

Nice post POON HOON. :bravo:


:rofl:

I like the typo:lol:

[HazzaHSV]

Good post Phoon Hoon. I have no doubt these cars are now quite even since the new gearbox.

But one thing I don't understand. Were you comparing an auto vs a manual? If so now driver skill is probably the ultimate decider, ie picking the right gears for the right times. I don't see how a 6 speed manual is inferior to a 6 speed auto for twisty "racetrack" type racing. We all know manuals are faster around a racetrack, so when you were leaving him for dead from 100 km/h on coming out of corners (or nearly running up his clacker), was it more the fact that your mate wasn't in the right gear, whereas your auto was? And vice versa, when you were in his clubbie, without knowing the car or the gearing, were you not in the gear giving the sweetest spot in the engine?

Not having a go here just that from the very little experience I have of auto's and manual's on a circuit racetrack, the manuals are faster IF the driver knows what he is doing. Conversely the auto's can be faster IF the manual driver does not know what he is doing. This would be even more evident especially since he had better tyres allowing him to get better momentum off the corners.

Cheers.

[holdennutta]

Well, I think i'm the least qualified to speak here...I can't afford either car - or any car really.

But as you can probably tell from the username I was a one eyed Holden fan a while ago...

Then I got a girlfriend who's father has an stock BA MkII XR6T...Sure, I haven't driven it (his own son isn't allowed too hehe) but from the passenger seat compared to the passenger seat in my mates VU SS with Cam, 'zorst & edit I think there is a whole lot to like about the XR6T...

Just 'feels' so sure from the passenger seat (Which is 100% different to the driver seat admitedly). The VU just didn't feel quite as well planted(due to being a ute perhaps). The XR6T also seems so at ease...The VU was making all sorts of (sexy) noises while rocketing up the road, while the T is just quietly burbling along and letting all hell unfold around it.

I hope some of that makes sense. As I say, it's all from an (inexperienced) passengers perspective.

My dream garage would be a BF Typhoon for flogging around on weekends, as well as a modded VZ V8 Calais for every other day of the week.

[Darth Vader]

I find it a bit strange that it would be proclaimed as 'all-Aussie' when the basis of the motor is a Ford US design and uses Mexican transmissions - I thought it used a Garrett turbo. Garrett Air Research is a US company who make things like starter motors for SR71 Blackbirds.

All the same, it is an achievement Ford Oz can be proud of, in the sense they slid it past the bean counters. I think for 60 large the interior should be better. The bodykit/stripes to me looks like someone watched 'Too Fast, Too Furious' too many times, but I acknowledge others like it. I still think Ford gets it's hero colours ever so slightly off. The new hero blue can't make up it's mind whether it's Turismo or Impulse.

As far as the car itself, is it still limited to 230kph as the BAs were? If so, it is not any faster than an SV6 and 20K less than an SV8. I can't find any specifications, factory or otherwise, which include a speed figure. We know what a SS, CV8, GTO and GTS will do flat out. 230ks would be well inside redline in the top two gears of the manual or auto.

Can it be a Supercar if it needs to be speed limited? A dirty ol' $35K SV8 can exceed those speeds by 20km/h. A Clubsport will beat that speed by 40km/h. A GTS will go 50-60km/h faster.

Aside from anything else, the ones I've heard make all the wrong sounds.

End of the day, I suppose it is an alternative and forces HSV to lift its' game. More a triumph of PR and making strengths of weaknesses.
FPVs are not speed limited. I am sure of that. The Engine in an F6 and for that matter in any Falcon is for all intents and purposes a completely Australian engine and only shares bore spacings with the first engines that came from the US design. It is true home grown Aussie ingenuity and an example of a grandfather's axe converted to a Samurai sword (excuse the mixed metaphors).
The fact that this engine is smoother and sounds better than the new GM engine in a Holden is a significant achievement.
BTW, sorry to correct you a second time but the speed stripe is not an option on an F6 and only available on GT, GTP and Pursuit. BTW, I luurve the current Ford colours. They seem the freshest in my opinion.

[flappist]

FPVs are not speed limited. I am sure of that.

All FPV vehicles are limited to 250km/h. I have owned 3, 1 GT-P and 2 F6s. All of them only did approximately 250km/h when the limiter stops them cold. I have personally tested this in the real world on the Barkly in NT (and other places).
The owners manual also states that the vehicles are limited and when you edit them you can set the limit to whatever you like up to 320km/h (199 Mph), the default setting is 250km/h.

Are you sure that you are sure they are not limited?

On the other hand with a LS1 name like Darth Vader you should have a lot of knowlege of the dark side..... :)

[McobraR]

All FPV vehicles are limited to 250km/h. I have owned 3, 1 GT-P and 2 F6s. All of them only did approximately 250km/h when the limiter stops them cold. I have personally tested this in the real world on the Barkly in NT (and other places).
The owners manual also states that the vehicles are limited and when you edit them you can set the limit to whatever you like up to 320km/h (199 Mph), the default setting is 250km/h.

Are you sure that you are sure they are not limited?

On the other hand with a LS1 name like Darth Vader you should have a lot of knowlege of the dark side..... :)

Im pretty sure i read somewhere that Ford stated that while the XR's are limited to about 230, the GT, GTP (dont know about the phoon) are excluded of the limiter, and can reach over 250kph (i think its about 254kph top speed), i think this was with the 5 spd manual.

[F6Mauz]

Flappist has just stated he has owned 3 FPV's and they do have a limter and your trying to say you think it doesn't have a limiter but don't own an FPV.
My Typhoon hit the speed limter @ 250km/h on the dyno.
So i think it has a limiter.

Gees :weirdo:



Im pretty sure i read somewhere that Ford stated that while the XR's are limited to about 230, the GT, GTP (dont know about the phoon) are excluded of the limiter, and can reach over 250kph (i think its about 254kph top speed), i think this was with the 5 spd manual.

[McobraR]

Flappist has just stated he has owned 3 FPV's and they do have a limter and your trying to say you think it doesn't have a limiter but don't own an FPV.
My Typhoon hit the speed limter @ 250km/h on the dyno.
So i think it has a limiter.

Gees :weirdo:

actually i just remembered that it is limited to 250kph, my bad, but im sure i read somewhere that it has none, anyway, its amazing tho how motor and lowndesy's GT did 254 tho

[SSASSC1]

Well here is goes - I think there is a way better option than a Typhoon. Lemme explain

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

Typhoon Cost is 60K - 270 kw +

I know which one I would prefer to have. Sure you gunna blow ur warranty with the SV8 but when you sart tweaking up the turbo boost on the Phoon I bet FPV won't be happy with that either

[GUN V8]

It took me ages to convice CSV LS1 to go for a typhoon.
I love all performance cars. Driven SS's (with Edit & stuff) HSV's, GT's, GTPs, all that sort of stuff. The F6 is the best of the bunch. Not by a little bit, but by a f*#ing mile. The only thing that you will ever miss when driving this car is the rumble of a V8. In every other aspect of what a performance car should be (stock). The typhoon has the measure. (the story gets worse for V8's when tuning gets into the picture.

Having said that, I would still buy a V8 cause of the sound and i am just a traditonalist.

[Redline]

Well here is goes - I think there is a way better option than a Typhoon. Lemme explain

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

Typhoon Cost is 60K - 270 kw +

I know which one I would prefer to have. Sure you gunna blow ur warranty with the SV8 but when you sart tweaking up the turbo boost on the Phoon I bet FPV won't be happy with that either Interesting concept....the only problem is your upgrades to your SV8 not only cancel out your warranty but also the cars compliance as far as road legality goes.
You would be surprised that some Ford dealers have a positive reaction to modifications and will maintain warranty within reason (same as Holden). It is easier to disguise a tune than a Turbo Kit ;) I have owned a Turbo Kit on my SS and it is probably the single best modification you can do to a V8.....and as they say there is no replacement for displacement.
The Typhoon has its merits and for what it is (6cyl Turbo) produces pretty big numbers while still maintaining a stock appearance throughout. For some people this can be important.

[McobraR]

Well here is goes - I think there is a way better option than a Typhoon. Lemme explain

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

Typhoon Cost is 60K - 270 kw +

I know which one I would prefer to have. Sure you gunna blow ur warranty with the SV8 but when you sart tweaking up the turbo boost on the Phoon I bet FPV won't be happy with that either

anyone who can afford a phoon, can afford to buy an APS phase 2 kit if they wanted to, plus it’ll push about 300rwkw, that’s about 375kw at the fly.
Most people who buy an SV8 wouldn’t be able to afford the extra odd 15 grand or even think about spending that much to mod it.
Plus everything Redline stated above.

[SSASSC1]

Interesting concept....the only problem is your upgrades to your SV8 not only cancel out your warranty but also the cars compliance as far as road legality goes.
You would be surprised that some Ford dealers have a positive reaction to modifications and will maintain warranty within reason (same as Holden). It is easier to disguise a tune than a Turbo Kit ;) I have owned a Turbo Kit on my SS and it is probably the single best modification you can do to a V8.....and as they say there is no replacement for displacement.
The Typhoon has its merits and for what it is (6cyl Turbo) produces pretty big numbers while still maintaining a stock appearance throughout. For some people this can be important.

I may be reading this wrong - but what you are saying is that every after market bolt-on turbo is non complyable and therefore is illegal and impossible insure. Well if thats the case. Stick with the complied Phoon then

But - I still recon if you could comply a bolt on turbo on a new SV8 6.0 ltr ( which is even more stock looking than a Phoon ) it would comprehensively whip any Phoon for the money. Its all about power right ?

Cheers

PS Redline - The Phoon is a great car, not knocking it. Goodluck with your new ride

[Redline]

I may be reading this wrong - but what you are saying is that every after market bolt-on turbo is non complyable and therefore is illegal and impossible insure. Well if thats the case. Stick with the complied Phoon then

But - I still recon if you could comply a bolt on turbo on a new SV8 6.0 ltr ( which is even more stock looking than a Phoon ) it would comprehensively whip any Phoon for the money. Its all about power right ?

Cheers

PS Redline - The Phoon is a great car, not knocking it. Goodluck with your new ride No i am not saying that they are all non compliable, just tying to show the differences between modifying one car to get a certain amount of power against not modifying one to get similar power.....its all up to the consumer really.

Like I said I had my VYSS with a turbo and it was mental and would kill a Typhoon....no question about that. I'm just out to try something a bit different....variety is the spice of life ;)

[HRT 8]

anyone who can afford a phoon, can afford to buy an APS phase 2 kit if they wanted to, plus it’ll push about 300rwkw, that’s about 375kw at the fly.
Most people who buy an SV8 wouldn’t be able to afford the extra odd 15 grand or even think about spending that much to mod it.
Plus everything Redline stated above.

What a load of shit. How can you make a statement like this??
Lets keep it fact, not fiction!

[Danv8]

anyone who can afford a phoon, can afford to buy an APS phase 2 kit if they wanted to, plus it’ll push about 300rwkw, that’s about 375kw at the fly.
Most people who buy an SV8 wouldn’t be able to afford the extra odd 15 grand or even think about spending that much to mod it.
Plus everything Redline stated above.

With broad statements like that you make sylvester stallone look 7 feet tall.

[seldo]

anyone who can afford a phoon, can afford to buy an APS phase 2 kit if they wanted to, plus it’ll push about 300rwkw, that’s about 375kw at the fly.
Most people who buy an SV8 wouldn’t be able to afford the extra odd 15 grand or even think about spending that much to mod it.
Plus everything Redline stated above.
Who is this goose? Will someone put him out of his misery..

[Redline]

anyone who can afford a phoon, can afford to buy an APS phase 2 kit if they wanted to, plus it’ll push about 300rwkw, that’s about 375kw at the fly.
Most people who buy an SV8 wouldn’t be able to afford the extra odd 15 grand or even think about spending that much to mod it.
Plus everything Redline stated above. I dont think thats entirely correct....besides who would want to go and spend a heap of dollars on an APS Phase 2 kit, thats the problem these days people just arent seeing value for money modifications....they just see the name :rolleyes:
With just a tune and injectors there is no reason a manual BF Typhoon cannot reach over 300rwkw.....i will prove it. Hows that for value for money :headbang:

[Phoon Hoon]

All is good, try not to be so defensive, I was commending you on an entertaining and well written post. ;)

My apologies for jumping the gun... must be spending too much time in enemy territory!

[SSASSC1]

anyone who can afford a phoon, can afford to buy an APS phase 2 kit if they wanted to, plus it’ll push about 300rwkw, that’s about 375kw at the fly.
Most people who buy an SV8 wouldn’t be able to afford the extra odd 15 grand or even think about spending that much to mod it.
Plus everything Redline stated above.

I have no doubt a good single turbo intercoooled and tuned on a Gen4 6.0ltr would easily destroy any phase 2 kit. Probably whack the more elaborate and expensive Phase 3 kit as well :hide:

[Phoon Hoon]

Were you comparing an auto vs a manual?

Yep... and according to Motor, the auto F6 and the manual Clubby are the best performed units in both camps.


when you were leaving him for dead from 100 km/h on coming out of corners (or nearly running up his clacker), was it more the fact that your mate wasn't in the right gear, whereas your auto was?
Maybe. You make a good point. I suppose the moral of the story is that the new ZF auto is easier to drive well. It really is an amazing slusher... the down-shifts under brakes are awesome. Very aggressive.


the manuals are faster IF the driver knows what he is doing. Conversely the auto's can be faster IF the manual driver does not know what he is doing.
Again, I take your point. But a coupla things to add. When testing the manual Vs auto Phoon, professional drivers are pulling better times out of the auto. Motor couldn't get a manual Phoon under a 14 secs for the ¼ mile. Now there's blokes pulling 13.2s for stock autos. That's a hell of an improvement.

Pretty much everything Scott and I discussed was mirrored by independent tests (Motor & Wheels are two that come to mind).

I suppose there's another thread here on auto Vs manuals...

The flip side for you guys in the red camp, is how well performed would the Clubby be if it was mated to the Typhoon's gearbox????

[hunted]

Forget a manual ever being quicker than an auto in an F6, or an XR6T....

You cannot launch the manual without being so damn carefull.

click http://www.clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=4B892A2C6C63058B to see how slowly I get off the line. Any harder on the launch, it's wheelspin central.

Has anyone here raced me @ the plex? I get nailed from the start every time.

[HazzaHSV]

Maybe. You make a good point. I suppose the moral of the story is that the new ZF auto is easier to drive well.
Didn't say the auto wasn't easier. Always been the case. But I don't choose a gearbox for its ease of use, I choose based on whats more fun for me day to day and more suited to the circuit sprints I have started doing.


Again, I take your point. But a coupla things to add. When testing the manual Vs auto Phoon, professional drivers are pulling better times out of the auto. Motor couldn't get a manual Phoon under a 14 secs for the ¼ mile. Now there's blokes pulling 13.2s for stock autos. That's a hell of an improvement.

Ah but your talking about straight line drag racing. Nothing to do with coming through the twisties off corners and leaving the clubbie for dead. Also everyone knows motor can't get anywhere near what the LS1/LS2 enthusiasts are getting stock either.


Pretty much everything Scott and I discussed was mirrored by independent tests (Motor & Wheels are two that come to mind).

Around a circuit?


The flip side for you guys in the red camp, is how well performed would the Clubby be if it was mated to the Typhoon's gearbox????
Should find out when the 6 speed auto's come on board later in the year.
Till then enjoy your Phoon. I have no doubt they finally got one right with this model. Shh don't tell anyone else I said that. :hide:

[hunted]

I have no doubt a good single turbo intercoooled and tuned on a Gen4 6.0ltr would easily destroy any phase 2 kit. Probably whack the more elaborate and expensive Phase 3 kit as well :hide:

What's the current costing on a single turbo 'kit' for a 6lt G4 V8?

The fact you wouldn't be able to register it in WA doesn't help your arguement.

click http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23588 for F6 Auto UTE with $4k of mods. ( exhaust, injectors, tune. )

[HazzaHSV]

Sort out the suspension and put sticky enough tyres and I am sure it can be done, ala the LS1 stock engine turbo's doing 10's.

But again I am not talking about drag racing or getting off the line. Phoon Hoon was talking about through and out of twisties etc. So that would be more like circuit sprints etc.


Forget a manual ever being quicker than an auto in an F6, or an XR6T....
You cannot launch the manual without being so damn carefull.

[McobraR]

What a load of shit. How can you make a statement like this??
Lets keep it fact, not fiction!


With broad statements like that you make sylvester stallone look 7 feet tall.


Who is this goose? Will someone put him out of his misery..!


I have no doubt a good single turbo intercoooled and tuned on a Gen4 6.0ltr would easily destroy any phase 2 kit. Probably whack the more elaborate and expensive Phase 3 kit as well

I guess an APS2 kit is expensive but i was using that as a max level of performance/price. Redline explains it easier. Plus i was comparing how a phoon owner can get as much power as what SSASSC1 was trying to say with an SV8. A phoon owner has a higher chance in affording to get about 300rwkw than an SV8 owner since highly unlikely an SV8 owner has the money or hassel of making such an upgrade that SSASSC1 was stating b4, its easier for the phoon to get that power. unless they purposely buy the SV8 for that reason or have the money.
and SSASSC1 you gotta remember adding a turbo means ur cars no as stock anymore as a phoon, though there are some people that dont care

[VZKOOP]

What is wrong with this thread?
:idea:
Ford V Holden......again.

[Martin_D]

Turbo Falcon is fast, can make plenty of power, but with one problem...Its got a lowish compresh 4000cc 6 cylinder pulling 1800kg.
< 3000rpm = yawn.....
turbocharge a V8 and
< 3000rpm = :burnout:

[The Warden]

The flip side for you guys in the red camp, is how well performed would the Clubby be if it was mated to the Typhoon's gearbox????

Ain't that the truth! The holden gearboxes (both M6 and A4) are the cars single biggest disappointment, and yes, I've owned both.

Phoon Hoon: Great post on the Clubbie v F6, thanks :thumbsup:

Cheers
Gordie

[Redline]

Ain't that the truth! The holden gearboxes (both M6 and A4) are the cars single biggest disappointment, and yes, I've owned both. I wouldnt go so far as to say that (for the M6) the T56 is a good gearbox its the shift mechanism and ratios that let it down.

[RED R8]

I just had a quick look at the Ford forum site to see what all this typhoon fuss is about and the one thing I noticed was a few complaints about excessive fuel consumption in some cases 300k's to a tank and one chappy just had his typhoon dynoed at 214rwkw's @4800rpm although they look superb the last thing I want is to go backwards by 26kw's and use more fuel to do it.For me I will keep my tyre frying sweet sounding V8 and if I get board I will go the cam or supercharger because NOTHING sounds sweeter I still smile every day I turn that key .

[The Warden]

I wouldnt go so far as to say that (for the M6) the T56 is a good gearbox its the shift mechanism and ratios that let it down.

Fair enough Redline I take your point, but I'm only the dumb Kiwi trying to operate the 'box on the end of that shift mechanism, if you get my drift :)

BTW: Ripshift wasn't available when I had my M6.

Forum member HQ Racer went thru' a couple of gearboxes and had the clutch replaced in his VZ clubbie (before he sold it) trying to get the 1-2 shift sorted.....mind you, I think he's possibly :limpy:

Cheers
Gordie

[Redline]

Fair enough Redline I take your point, but I'm only the dumb Kiwi trying to operate the 'box on the end of that shift mechanism, if you get my drift :) Come on mate dont use being a kiwi as an excuse :lol: ;)

[ratter]

Well here is goes - I think there is a way better option than a Typhoon. Lemme explain

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

Typhoon Cost is 60K - 270 kw +

I know which one I would prefer to have. Sure you gunna blow ur warranty with the SV8 but when you sart tweaking up the turbo boost on the Phoon I bet FPV won't be happy with that either


Theres a guy on fordforums.com (Extreme6F)and he has been here and posted incar vids of his typhoon, he has got 400 rwkw from his turbo 6 with just a few basic mods, exhaust, edit, injectors etc and still uses the standard turbo.
I beleive he may have been pushing this combo to the ragged edge though, because he is building another turbo 6 chasing 450-500 rwkw.

Even if the dyno he was using is a bit happy, it still make great power.

On a slightly different note, I was taken for a ride in a VZ ute with a supercharger on it and at the time was making 320 rwkw..... WHAT A RUSH :bow: And forget about exhaust noise, the charger noise out does the exhaust, in fact you can hardly hear the exhaust for the charger under acceleration

[willimtell123]

Good post Phoon Hoon. I have no doubt these cars are now quite even since the new gearbox.

But one thing I don't understand. Were you comparing an auto vs a manual? If so now driver skill is probably the ultimate decider, ie picking the right gears for the right times. I don't see how a 6 speed manual is inferior to a 6 speed auto for twisty "racetrack" type racing. We all know manuals are faster around a racetrack, so when you were leaving him for dead from 100 km/h on coming out of corners (or nearly running up his clacker), was it more the fact that your mate wasn't in the right gear, whereas your auto was? And vice versa, when you were in his clubbie, without knowing the car or the gearing, were you not in the gear giving the sweetest spot in the engine?

Not having a go here just that from the very little experience I have of auto's and manual's on a circuit racetrack, the manuals are faster IF the driver knows what he is doing. Conversely the auto's can be faster IF the manual driver does not know what he is doing. This would be even more evident especially since he had better tyres allowing him to get better momentum off the corners.

Cheers.
Iam no expert in driving, but have had manuals & autos I test drove the phoon and take it from me, that 6 speed auto box is just the best, changes gears faster (i think) than any manual. The general HAD BETTER GET SOMETHING SIMULAR and soon
ps i bought the ssz 6 weeks ago love it, love it.

[Ghosn]

Well here is goes - I think there is a way better option than a Typhoon. Lemme explain

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

Typhoon Cost is 60K - 270 kw +

I know which one I would prefer to have. Sure you gunna blow ur warranty with the SV8 but when you sart tweaking up the turbo boost on the Phoon I bet FPV won't be happy with that either

I would still choose a Phoon before blinking an eyelid. It's one thing to have a fast car, it's another to have a fast car plus all the goodies and looks. To my understanding, an SV8 is practically an exec with a V8?

[ratter]

Maybe the comparison should be against a XR6T rather than the typhoon in this case then,

[Phoon Hoon]

I just had a quick look at the Ford forum site to see what all this typhoon fuss is about and the one thing I noticed was a few complaints about excessive fuel consumption in some cases 300k's to a tank

I too found the fuel economy pretty bad, but it is getting better. I'm now getting closer to 450km out of a tank... much better than b4. I've had dealers say to me that the F6 engine really doesn't bed in until about 15-20,000km, then you get better power and economy.



... one chappy just had his typhoon dynoed at 214rwkw's @4800rpm although they look superb the last thing I want is to go backwards by 26kw's and use more fuel to do it.
I didn't buy the Typhoon for kw... there are stock HSVs and FPVs with more k/w. The killer for the Phoon is the torque. 550Nm at 2,000rpm. Awesome.

[HazzaHSV]

Agree 100%. It is a german designed and engineered gearbox, so no wonder it is one of the best in the world. If I was an auto driver I would be a bit annoyed that Holden didn't either steal the ZF as frawd did or get their own 6 speed auto into the 2006 spec cars.


that 6 speed auto box is just the best, changes gears faster (i think) than any manual. The general HAD BETTER GET SOMETHING SIMULAR and soon

[STATIE]

To my understanding, an SV8 is practically an exec with a V8?

Thats like saying a yellow monaro is a 2 door exec taxi with a V8:errr:

[HazzaHSV]

That's why you would get a runout Clubby for 50 and then turbo it. Okay so few grand more but you already got the suspension and brakes in that. And you'd have bucket loads more power/torque and good looks. But not really a fair comparison since the Phoon would be stock. But stock doesn't appeal to me so that's what I would do. For others the Phoon would suit. Simple.


I would still choose a Phoon before blinking an eyelid. It's one thing to have a fast car, it's another to have a fast car plus all the goodies and looks. To my understanding, an SV8 is practically an exec with a V8?

[Gera]

Is the sv6000 better than the typhoon?

[EfiJy]

what i dont understand is magazines seem to test these vehicles around a track and the holdens are almost always quicker yet people who drive them claim typhoon is quicker :deal:

[YLD57L]

what i dont understand is magazines seem to test these vehicles around a track and the holdens are almost always quicker yet people who drive them claim typhoon is quicker :deal:

Power curve, ability to launch etc. effects times and seat of pants feeling.

[Ghosn]

Thats like saying a yellow monaro is a 2 door exec taxi with a V8:errr:

Didnt know execs come with standard leather, climate control, 8 way electric seats, 12 function trip computer etc etc... :weirdo: :p

[BA$TAD]

Agree 100%. It is a german designed and engineered gearbox, so no wonder it is one of the best in the world. If I was an auto driver I would be a bit annoyed that Holden didn't either steal the ZF as frawd did or get their own 6 speed auto into the 2006 spec cars.
i think the reason "frawd" got it first is i believe Ford global has a stake in ZF. When ION went bust Ford had to come up with a alternative, i don't know if the ZF was meant to be introduced so soon.

[F6Mauz]

i think the reason "frawd" got it first is i believe Ford global has a stake in ZF. When ION went bust Ford had to come up with a alternative, i don't know if the ZF was meant to be introduced so soon.


The 4 speed is still used on the poverty packs.

[payaya]

everyone is forgetting that the VZ platform is dated no one can deny that. Once holden hit VE then the extra pounds from modernising their chassis, then the comparo will begin.

Unless holden extract more out of the V8 it will be slower then VZ.

Look at BMW, Merc, Jags, they all have put on the weight even with the use of magnesium aluminium etc. VE probably use some of this but will be limited as its not in the price rang to do so.

Even the damn 380 which is a 6 and smaller car weighs around 1.7 tonnes now.

Not many replacement models stay the same weight.

If it was that easy to keep the weight down, Mercedes and BMW wont have performance cars weighing 1.8 tonnes.

2006 M5 similar size with extensive use of weight saving metals 1819.8 kg!!

Do we really expect a quicker VE? Think about it.

[Phoon Hoon]

I agree. Modern cars weigh more. Ford faced this when they bought out the BA. Better chassis, brakes, transmissions, suspensions, safety gear all add up to more weight.

Holden will face this with the release of the VE. Won't it be around 200kg heavier?

The added weight isn't all bad news, tho. You can expect ride, handling and NVH to improve.

The VE will be a better car than the VZ, no doubt... just don't know if it will be a faster car.

[Martin_D]

Lets face it guys and gals, the BA is pretty much the identical sheet metal pressing to the AU (rooline pillars etc all the same parts) so it isnt much fresher than a VT now really....is it?

[payaya]

yeah the AU suspension parts are interchangable with the BF.

[Martin_D]

yeah the AU suspension parts are interchangable with the BF.

Not quite correct. The AU in fact had a far better rear end and was a more adept handler than the 'Control Blade' equipped BA - BF....just the AU gear was to exxy to keep using :goodtime:

[Phoon Hoon]

Lets face it guys and gals, the BA is pretty much the identical sheet metal pressing to the AU (rooline pillars etc all the same parts) so it isnt much fresher than a VT now really....is it?
The BA is identical to the AU, except for a re-designed engine (no more pushrods), totally new suspension (control blade IRS), new clutches, new gearboxes, stronger chassis and totally upgraded interior. In fact, it is officially 80% NEW over the AU...

...Otherwise it's identical.

[pah]

Interesting concept....the only problem is your upgrades to your SV8 not only cancel out your warranty but also the cars compliance as far as road legality goes . . . and as they say there is no replacement for displacement.

I agree that compliance could easily be a BIG issue . . . depending on who pulls the driver over for an inspection. It's one thing to have to bung on a quiter muffler. Ripping a $12k turbo to bits would HURT!! Corsa Specialised Vehicles offers a compliant kit but his price seems a bit steep to me. Do any of the LS1.com sponsors offer an EPA compliant install? From memory, Harrop does not offer an install on its blower kit.

I think that superchargers and turbos are a GREAT replacement for displacement. Some of the blower kits claim not too much change in fuel economy AND look at the HEAPS of extra grunt they make!! Set up an LS1 to make 350kW - 400kW without a blower and see what sort of economy you get.

If blowers are not a form of variable displacement engine, they are the next best thing to it. Off boost gives great economy. On boost gives great power. I'd dare say that a blown LS1 spends HEAPS of time OFF boost because any more than a quick whap on boost means that you're well and truly into loss of licence territory.

I would not be at all surprised to see Holden join Ford in offering some form of turbo power. If not that, some form of blown performance machine.

Having said that, strokers sound nice too. They make low down grunt and they are very hard to pick (unlike a blower).

I wish they'd lighten the Commode. The current car's weight is one reason we're chasing such big kW's.




PAH

[pah]

Thats like saying a yellow monaro is a 2 door exec taxi with a V8:errr:


Not really mate. I think he's got a point. My VY SV8 interior is not much different to an Exec. I'd really like some bolstering on the seats but I don't want to pay the extra $9k to upgrade to an SS becauase I can't see the value. At least with the VY's, the exterior was pretty much Exec too . . . an Exec with a small spoiler and a set of mags. That's not all bad. Some of us appreciate a sleeper and I for one appreciate not having to worry to much about chin whisker spoilers and kerbs.



PAH

[payaya]

Not quite correct. The AU in fact had a far better rear end and was a more adept handler than the 'Control Blade' equipped BA - BF....just the AU gear was to exxy to keep using :goodtime:

So the AU would have been a more expensive design to keep going? Says who? I dont see how the control blade would be cheaper to produce even with all the BF goodies. From what i see the control blade is a better system all round. Do you think weight had anything to do with it?

[payaya]

Control Blade = Benchmark
6 Speed = Benchmark
NVH = Benmark
Engines = Benchmark
Overall Package = Benchmark

It already has been quoted the BF is at least a couple of generations ahead of the field.

"Ford's BF Falcon XR6 is a significant more polished example of the car that won out 2002 Car fo the year. As such, the fact it wins this comparison is no suprise. What did suprise us, though was the margin of its victory, The Broadmeadows built sedan offeres unbelievable sophistication for teh money - particulary in its interior comfort fabulas auto transmissions and world class suspension. In fact so good is the BF Xr6 it warrants geniune comparison with European sedans worth double, even triple its price."

So if the BF is 80% AU then what does it say about its competitors? Im a Ford fan, but you cant hide the VZ is dated and is real need of an update. You may say the BF is a lot of AU but you can also say the VY is a lot of VN! More than a decade of history behind it! VE is near and there is a reason behind it.

Holden cant stick with their current setup for much longer. If they want a world class car evolution is needed. With that it comes weight. Ford may be handicapped with its weight but you cant expect holden not to put on any! If they want class leading refinement, it comes at a costs. I know this is a Holden forum, but face the facts, new technology creates more weight simple.

[EfiJy]

Control Blade = Benchmark
6 Speed = Benchmark
NVH = Benmark
Engines = Benchmark
Overall Package = Benchmark

It already has been quoted the BF is at least a couple of generations ahead of the field.

"Ford's BF Falcon XR6 is a significant more polished example of the car that won out 2002 Car fo the year. As such, the fact it wins this comparison is no suprise. What did suprise us, though was the margin of its victory, The Broadmeadows built sedan offeres unbelievable sophistication for teh money - particulary in its interior comfort fabulas auto transmissions and world class suspension. In fact so good is the BF Xr6 it warrants geniune comparison with European sedans worth double, even triple its price."

So if the BF is 80% AU then what does it say about its competitors? Im a Ford fan, but you cant hide the VZ is dated and is real need of an update. You may say the BF is a lot of AU but you can also say the VY is a lot of VN! More than a decade of history behind it! VE is near and there is a reason behind it.

Holden cant stick with their current setup for much longer. If they want a world class car evolution is needed. With that it comes weight. Ford may be handicapped with its weight but you cant expect holden not to put on any! If they want class leading refinement, it comes at a costs. I know this is a Holden forum, but face the facts, new technology creates more weight simple.

:doh: same old same old

[alexcs]

:doh: same old same old


and yet an sv8 or ss ute can flog the shit out of a gt or gtp, all stock, for 20-30grand less.

**** the interior and suspension, it beats you boss blokes by a mile. compare turbo to turbo, v8 to v8. an iron block competing against an already popular alloy block? ridiculous.

whether its pushed by rods or floppy pasta, it beats the boss by an embarrassing margin simply becuase it weighs so ****ing much. get a clue ford.

[redss]

I think it's great that Ford are useing quadrupal x10 overhead cam fancy pants, you beaut, real schmick, wacky doo technology, with 12 wishbones, DSC, Traction control, gizmo alert and all that other whizz bang fancy stuff that allows their car to use more fuel AND rev to a whopping 5900rpm - now if only they could get their GT (Grossly Tubby?) to actually go any good they might be onto something:lol: :moon: :lol:

As for their turbo 6s well... oh look at that, gotta go - I hear my mum calling me:eek: :lol: Nah, I spose they could be ok in that awful Fo#d kinda way (if your into that sorta thing:limpy: ):stick:

Cheers

[Martin_D]

I know this is a Holden forum, but face the facts, new technology creates more weight simple.

Incorrect. Cheap technology creates more weight.

[YLD57L]

You can get around weight gain, Mazda did it with the new MX5.

[rednut99]

Well here is goes - I think there is a way better option than a Typhoon. Lemme explain

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

Typhoon Cost is 60K - 270 kw +

I know which one I would prefer to have. Sure you gunna blow ur warranty with the SV8 but when you sart tweaking up the turbo boost on the Phoon I bet FPV won't be happy with that either

You got that one backwards:

SV8 - Cost around 44K new, put on a turbo 12K, upgrade brakes and clutch, another 4K. Total around 60K - 380 kw +

XR6T (6 speed auto) with 16K of mods total around 60K with at least 330rwkw... bugger the F6!

[GUN V8]

Lets face it guys and gals, the BA is pretty much the identical sheet metal pressing to the AU (rooline pillars etc all the same parts) so it isnt much fresher than a VT now really....is it?

Yeah mate same thing. Just one other slight difference. Chassis stiffness from AU to BA increased by 80%. :confused:

[EfiJy]

Yeah mate same thing. Just one other slight difference. Chassis stiffness from AU to BA increased by 80%. :confused:

i tried to find articles on that statistic but failed to find anything. can you post the link up gunv8?

[Tim41im41]

I have raced a guy who lives up the street from me, Who has a new Typhoon on two occassions. I have left him for dead in my VZ Maloo R8. A lot of the time these articles they put in the magazine, do not match up to what they are like on the street. And Fords seem to be the main culprit.

[redss]

When I was at WSID a couple of weeks ago, there were a couple of blokes there who had turned up to race each other. One had a manual XR6T ute, and the other had a VY Maloo auto. Both essentially standard (I think the Maloo had a cat back). Both on street tyres - and both newbies to the drags (as far as I could tell). They seemed to enjoy themselves, and from the 3 runs I saw, the Maloo owned the XR6T each time. Both were running 14s. Now I know that the XR6T is not a Typhoon, but I still found the comparison very interesting, as figures etc vary so much depending on who you speak with, and what magazine is testing a car.

I guess the XR6T bloke is investigating some more boost as we speak:whip: ;)

Cheers

[EfiJy]

Yeah mate same thing. Just one other slight difference. Chassis stiffness from AU to BA increased by 80%. :confused:

i think what you type is rubbish...


BA Falcon Wins Gold Award for Safety Engineering

19 August, 2003
Image Gallery
Click to enlarge

Ford Australia's BA Falcon has been the awarded the prestigious Gold Automotive Engineering Excellence Award by the Society of Automotive Engineers - Australasia - for the Intelligent Safety Systems inherent across the vehicle range.

Unanimously selected by the judges, the Gold Award recognises the BA Falcon as the first locally engineered and produced vehicle to provide sophisticated safety technologies that take into account crash severity and occupant characteristics to deliver tailored levels of occupant protection.

"Our entire philosophy when developing the BA Falcon was to put the customer first and foremost," said Ford Australia Vice President of Product Development, Trevor Worthington.

"That philosophy was behind every aspect of the vehicle's development - from exterior design through to engine performance and interior comfort.
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"But where it was most evident was in the safety systems developed for the vehicle. Ford Australia is committed to building exciting products with advanced safety technologies that are relevant to real-world driving conditions.

"The Intelligent Safety Systems in the BA Falcon include two stage driver and passenger airbags that tailor the level of protection to suit the severity of the crash, the driver seating position and the use of seatbelts," said Mr Worthington.

The ability of the Falcon's ISS to adjust airbag inflation pressure means that the risk of airbag-induced minor injuries is minimised. Most accidents require only the first stage to be inflated but, even when both stages are required, the staggered inflation of the two stages means the airbag pressure rise rate is gentler.

"Using this technology, the interactions between the driver, the vehicle and the road environment are managed to achieve new levels of road trauma reduction that cannot be achieved by traditional component-based approaches."

Unique features of the BA Falcon's ISS include:

* passenger and driver airbags to control airbag inflation pressure according to the circumstances of a crash
* An additional "crash severity" sensor to enable the earlier detection of a wider array of crash events
* Driver's seat position sensor to enable airbag inflation to be adjusted according to the proximity of the driver to the airbag
* Seat belt buckle latch detection to determine if the seat belt is worn at the time of the crash.

The ISS seat belt buckle sensing feature is further enhanced by the Beltminder intelligent seat belt reminder system, which provides an effective system of warnings if the driver's seat belt is unbuckled when the car is moving.

"The Beltminder system has also been acclaimed by road transport agencies," says Mr Worthington.

"Unbuckled occupants represent a high proportion of road fatalities and this system provides ample warning that a seat belt is not buckled in as soon as the vehicle starts to move at even the slowest speed."

The ISS and Beltminder systems are complemented by an array of additional occupant protection features in the BA Falcon. These include:

* Head and chest protecting side airbag with an innovative deployment chute available across the entire passenger car range
* Extensive structural upgrades to optimise crash energy management and enhance the integrity of the passenger safety cell in all crash modes
* An anti-intrusion brake pedal that improves lower leg protection by decoupling the pedal in severe frontal impacts
* Shock-absorbing EVA foam integrated into the steering column shroud for increased knee protection
* Seat belt Energy Management Retractors that keep occupant chest loads to a minimum by cleverly regulating the forces applied by the webbing in a frontal crash
* Laminated impact protection panel in the driver's door which increases lower leg protection
* Refined side structure with tuned energy management feature, which delivers greater side impact protection
* Fuel tank packaged forward of the sedan rear axle to help ensure fuel system integrity in a rear impact
* Fuel pump inertia shut-off switch that functions in all impact directions

"This extensive range of safety features delivers a world-class safety package for BA Falcon customers," said Mr Worthington.

"Recognition such as the Gold Award from the Society of Automotive Engineers for our engineering excellence in developing these safety systems reaffirms our philosophy of engineering great cars with the customer first and foremost.

"We have concentrated on building a team of engineering experts and providing them with the most advanced technologies with which to deliver innovative products for our customers. This award is a direct result of the customer benefits that have been derived from this dedication.

"It also recognises the hard work and effort put into the project by our suppliers, particularly Autoliv and Air International."


no mention there of 80% increase chassis stiffness

[CarlFST60L]

I hope the VE SS dosnt weight more than 1650kg, i want performance, not a fat ass


If technology = weight, an F1 car must weigh atleast 4500kg :stick:

[alexcs]

I hope the VE SS dosnt weight more than 1650kg, i want performance, not a fat ass


If technology = weight, an F1 car must weigh atleast 4500kg :stick:

no, wayward legal systems = weight in the form of more and more safety systems. society is choosing to pack itself in cotton wool rather than improve driving and road standards across the board in any real sense.

[payaya]

and yet an sv8 or ss ute can flog the shit out of a gt or gtp, all stock, for 20-30grand less.

**** the interior and suspension, it beats you boss blokes by a mile. compare turbo to turbo, v8 to v8. an iron block competing against an already popular alloy block? ridiculous.

whether its pushed by rods or floppy pasta, it beats the boss by an embarrassing margin simply becuase it weighs so ****ing much. get a clue ford.

Um update the platform will incure more weight! The SV8 is beat the XR's as its light! Ford have been upgrading wait for the VE it will be a lard arse period!

So your basically implying that Ford have no idea how to build a performance car because the car is heavy? Do you really think its that easy to make a car light? Evolutions in platforms will be as light?? WRX's are around 1.5 tonnes now, they are a much smaller car, smaller mechanical components! The EVO is bascially the same weight and uses extensive weight saving parts! The interior is crap and very basic to keep its weight down!!!

So obviously Mercedes dont have a blue either! Eg. CLS 55 AMG! They charged $250000.00 so putting in lighter and more expensive materials is a viable option. Similar size car and similar engine but guess what? 1.92 tonnes? Damn Mercedes have to get a clue!!! SL 55 2.96 tonnes! BMW M5 massive use of lightweight components similar size 1.75 tonnes! So obviously according to you the holdne have a Magical formula which keeps weight down! Eg. R8 1.69 tonnes!

Not trying to stir anything up but light weight sedans from Holden at the moment, have been form use of exisiting platforms all these years! But after a decade and a half i guess its time for change! And change comes more weight period!

[payaya]

I hope the VE SS dosnt weight more than 1650kg, i want performance, not a fat ass


If technology = weight, an F1 car must weigh atleast 4500kg :stick:

Who honestly believes a VE SS will be only 1.65 tonnes? If you have been following the devepment of cars over generations, then you should know weight just piles on!!

Even the 380, smaller car, FWD weighs more than that!!! A auto 380 GT weighs 1.7 tonnes. A previous gen magna is 1.53 tonnes? Even with the use of bascially the same engine transmission the upgrade of chassis increased the weigh by almost 200 kgs??? Even the heaviest of the pre gen Magnas which consists of AWD weights 1.68 tonnes!!! EL to AU big weight gain! AU to BA even with the lighter control blades IRS, the BA still weighed more! BA to BF, incured a weight gain! Were is the weight coming from? Smaller car now is a lard arse!

Holden are suffering from NVH as their chassis is dated. Eg. Put a modern Alloytech in a dated platform as from mags makes the engine suffer! Put the alloytech in modern platform is shows its quality! It won awards from being a good engine, but from most reports its suffered in the Holden.

Also Technology in F1 means less weight! You cant compare a F1 car to a road car. Less weight also means more cost, in a big production vehicle which is cheap use of light materials such as Magnesium, Alu, Carbon incure more costs period!

[payaya]

Incorrect. Cheap technology creates more weight.

I cant see our sedans and cheap not used in the same sentence. If it was financial viable to use lighter and more expensive parts in a cheap car, then every manufacturer will be doing it.

[VooDoo]

I hope the VE SS dosnt weight more than 1650kg, i want performance, not a fat ass


If technology = weight, an F1 car must weigh atleast 4500kg :stick:

:soap: 12.5 @ 109 on a 1.73 60 foot, NS2 street tyres with 2012kg (inc driver) cam only.

Weight can help. It doesnt mean it has to be slow. Ive raced a WRX around QLD raceway and beaten him with just a tune. Again, 2012kg. Power overcomes weight issues.

[brody05]

Apples with apples......

turbo 6 against a V8 - torque is the likely winner up to a certain speed, I know one thing, my old mans GTP at 290 KW was a well built car but not very fast, at least the comparison between the LS1 and LS2 vs the 302 boss is well, we all know the answer to that one.........bye bye ford.

not to mention the LS1's have been detuned and capable of so much more hence edits ending up with 300+ kw, I know an edit on a turbo 6 nets great gains too but how much would one gain WITHOUT touching the boost???

maybe someone should turbo an alloytech and compare two turbo V6's against one another, until then, how can one draw any accurate conclussions as to the superioty of either???

Brand loyalties are always going to be there but me, nothing could ever replace the sound of a V8, its that simple.

Just my 2c

[Vulture]

:soap: 12.5 @ 109 on a 1.73 60 foot, NS2 street tyres with 2012kg (inc driver) cam only.

Weight can help. It doesnt mean it has to be slow. Ive raced a WRX around QLD raceway and beaten him with just a tune. Again, 2012kg. Power overcomes weight issues.

...and good driving too by the sounds of it. Don't sell yourself short VooDoo. You're too humble.

[Shockwave XR8]

Brand loyalties are always going to be there but me, nothing could ever replace the sound of a V8, its that simple.

Exactly...

I will always stick with a V8. It's not always about the power.

[ratter]

Apples with apples......

turbo 6 against a V8 - torque is the likely winner up to a certain speed, I know one thing, my old mans GTP at 290 KW was a well built car but not very fast, at least the comparison between the LS1 and LS2 vs the 302 boss is well, we all know the answer to that one.........bye bye ford.

not to mention the LS1's have been detuned and capable of so much more hence edits ending up with 300+ kw, I know an edit on a turbo 6 nets great gains too but how much would one gain WITHOUT touching the boost???

maybe someone should turbo an alloytech and compare two turbo V6's against one another, until then, how can one draw any accurate conclussions as to the superioty of either???

Brand loyalties are always going to be there but me, nothing could ever replace the sound of a V8, its that simple.

Just my 2c


Just to clear a few mistakes
The ford Boss motor is actually 330 ci (5.4 ltr)
The Boss motor is actually producing higher kws than similar mods on the LS1 but the LS1's are showing the track results, but we are supossed to be comparing the turbo6 here
Somebody turboing a V6 would not be a fair comparison as it would not be a factory option
Fords 6 is an inline 6 not a v6


One thing you got right, the 8 sounds great :driving:


:)

[brody05]

Just to clear a few mistakes
The ford Boss motor is actually 330 ci (5.4 ltr)
The Boss motor is actually producing higher kws than similar mods on the LS1 but the LS1's are showing the track results, but we are supossed to be comparing the turbo6 here
Somebody turboing a V6 would not be a fair comparison as it would not be a factory option
Fords 6 is an inline 6 not a v6


One thing you got right, the 8 sounds great :driving:


:)

Ahh yes, thats right, its a 5.4l, hope the old man doesn't find out I cocked that one up, certainly heard it often enough, guess selective hearing could be applied on that one.......

I do however disagree about the higher kw's statement, the top boss at 290 kw vs the LS1's 300kw GTS (factory of course - unsure if you are refering to modifications though, either way, the LS2 is the current HSV top shooter).

I agree in some part to the in line 6 thing, however ford have chosen to stick with that combination, and if comparisons are being drawn between N/A 8s vs turbo 6's then it is I feel a fair comment, not to mention it may be a factory option one day in the future???

Yep, the sound is one that cannot be imitated.:bounce:

[ratter]

I do however disagree about the higher kw's statement, the top boss at 290 kw vs the LS1's 300kw GTS (factory of course - unsure if you are refering to modifications though, either way, the LS2 is the current HSV top shooter).

.:bounce:


Yeah i was talking about modded, as I thought you were cause you mentioned edit.
:doh:

[brody05]

Yeah i was talking about modded, as I thought you were cause you mentioned edit.
:doh:


Both really, standard at 300kw or detuned at the various levels of 235 - 265, I just meant that the turbo 6 isn't detuned so if factory comparisons are to be drawn the should be with the LS1's 300kw GTS or the newer LS2's which are standard in SS in Australia.

So if you talk about an edit on both, how much would be netted without touching the boost? It is an unfair comparison if edits between N/A and turbo engines are made.

Maybe something along the lines of those with supercharged LS1's, commonly putting out 330 rwkw and 1250 nm torque are fairer, but then it comes back to displacement ey, so my point is still, compare a turbo 6 with a turbo 6.:yup:

[NinetySix]

i wouldnt say that the XR6T or the typhoon have the most ideal tune from the factory and that the only place its picking up kW's from and edit is by upping the boost... tho it probably wouldnt pick up as much as the LS1/2 without touching the boost, but you'd be silly not to :clown:

tho you could say that only running 6psi (or even the ~9psi on the phoon) stock on a factory turbo (with lower compression than the n/a version) is a rather sedate state of tune from the factory... even the boost delivery method was dulled quite a bit, i seem to remember seeing boost curves dropping right off after the midrange on purpose, tho i think the phoon fix changed that..

and with a turbo that would still be efficient when spinning at 20psi+.... compare that to most subaru's that run 14psi out of the factory...


if ford could have their way then the shoot outs would be between the GTP and the clubby, but they just have to admit defeat when their 'runner up' vehicle is flat out better in every way except sound ( :limpy: ) than their 'flag ship' car

[Ghia351]

i think what you type is rubbish...



no mention there of 80% increase chassis stiffness

Someone needs to say sorry....and it wasn't hard to find the 80% stiffer body claim...:hmmm:
http://www.editorial.discountnewcars.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/RT/12B517DE94A94011CA256C9400294A27_Safety?OpenDocume nt

[RED R8]

Someone needs to say sorry....and it wasn't hard to find the 80% stiffer body claim...:hmmm:
http://www.editorial.discountnewcars.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/RT/12B517DE94A94011CA256C9400294A27_Safety?OpenDocume nt
All I know is driving my ls1 Holen makes me 100% stiffer me sticks with v8's no matter what comes out.

[Ghia351]

All I know is driving my ls1 Holen makes me 100% stiffer me sticks with v8's no matter what comes out.
I'd rather drive a Holden :stick:

[RED R8]

I'd rather drive a Holden :stick:
that type error was intetionly done just to make you type I'd rather drive a holden.:banana:

[brody05]

i wouldnt say that the XR6T or the typhoon have the most ideal tune from the factory and that the only place its picking up kW's from and edit is by upping the boost... tho it probably wouldnt pick up as much as the LS1/2 without touching the boost, but you'd be silly not to :clown:

tho you could say that only running 6psi (or even the ~9psi on the phoon) stock on a factory turbo (with lower compression than the n/a version) is a rather sedate state of tune from the factory... even the boost delivery method was dulled quite a bit, i seem to remember seeing boost curves dropping right off after the midrange on purpose, tho i think the phoon fix changed that..

and with a turbo that would still be efficient when spinning at 20psi+.... compare that to most subaru's that run 14psi out of the factory...


if ford could have their way then the shoot outs would be between the GTP and the clubby, but they just have to admit defeat when their 'runner up' vehicle is flat out better in every way except sound ( :limpy: ) than their 'flag ship' car

Thats what I am getting at though, everyone knows it is easy to squeeze power with boosting turbo, the LS1 doesn't have that luxury so drawing comparisons between editing a N/A motor and a turbo is not exactly fair. the edited LS1 is quicker than the XR6T without a boost mod which to me is a more level playing field, otherwise one would have to compare two turbo'ed cars and either a turbo alloytech or LS1 would kill an XR6T in my opinion.

Certainly agree, the GTP vs clubby or even GTS is a better comparison (althought the GTP is a tad cheaper), their 'runner up' vehicle is the winner over the GTP but not a GTS or LS2 (once again in my own opinion) but my question was and is how can comparisons be made between a turbo 6 and a stock N/A LS1?

[nang3]

Thats what I am getting at though, everyone knows it is easy to squeeze power with boosting turbo, the LS1 doesn't have that luxury so drawing comparisons between editing a N/A motor and a turbo is not exactly fair. the edited LS1 is quicker than the XR6T without a boost mod which to me is a more level playing field, otherwise one would have to compare two turbo'ed cars and either a turbo alloytech or LS1 would kill an XR6T in my opinion.

Certainly agree, the GTP vs clubby or even GTS is a better comparison (althought the GTP is a tad cheaper), their 'runner up' vehicle is the winner over the GTP but not a GTS or LS2 (once again in my own opinion) but my question was and is how can comparisons be made between a turbo 6 and a stock N/A LS1?

a turbo LS1 would of course kill an XR6T or phoon but then its venturing from the idea of comparing two stock cars straight off the factory floor... plus of course then the XR6T would be disadvantaged due to the difference in capacity..
I think its better to compare based on price point rather than engine type/capacity etc..

[Ghia351]

that type error was intetionly done just to make you type I'd rather drive a holden.:banana:
:jester: and I just wanted to see if you could spell intentionally :nyuk: bit O/T me thinks....

[Martin_D]

a turbo LS1 would of course kill an XR6T or phoon

You got that one right Shoe Shine! :woohoo:

[ratter]

a turbo LS1 would of course kill an XR6T or phoon ..



Even this one ? http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43898&highlight=XR6+Turbo+9.98

:cool:

[Martin_D]

Yeah, I think the fastest turbocharged LS1 on here does something like a 7.1 @ 200 or close enough to?

[VooDoo]

Even this one ? http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43898&highlight=XR6+Turbo+9.98

:cool:

There are Turbo LS1's doing 7's (hyparacing)

[nang3]

Even this one ? http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43898&highlight=XR6+Turbo+9.98

:cool:

hehe maybe not that one!!
nah i was referring to brody05's comment about the stock LS1 not having a turbo so it wasnt a fair comparison to the stock XR6T.. now that I read it again i think i read it wrong my bad, he meant its not fair to compare EDIT results from each motor when a turbo is inherently more moddable etc..
monday friggen monday haha

[HSV007]

What's with Motor mag saying that you had to be a goliath to use the GTO's manual gearbox, what a bunch of limp wristed poofs! It's not a Hyundai Getz.:limpy:

[Belzey]

Didnt know execs come with standard leather, climate control, 8 way electric seats, 12 function trip computer etc etc... :weirdo: :p

SV8 are what replaced the v8 exec. So u were correct. ;)

[YLD57L]

What's with Motor mag saying that you had to be a goliath to use the GTO's manual gearbox, what a bunch of limp wristed poofs! It's not a Hyundai Getz.:limpy:

Nothing a rip shift can't fix anyhow. :karate:

[m&m]

I'm 44 years old and have had a heap of V8's,nearly 30 in fact.I have never had an LS1,but I have owned pretty much everything else.In 2001 I had to get a new car,and I was primarily a Ford man.What a peice of junk the AU XR8 was.I next drove the SS of the day,and that left me less than impressed.I needed a new car,but the V8 options were out of the question,so I looked elsewhere.The WRX scared me off with it's driveline issues,as whatever I got was not going to stay stock.The Integra Type R was purely sensational,but not much more could be done performance wise.I drove the 200SX last,that was the year it won PCOTY in Motor.I was stunned how good it was,I bought it there on the spot.I was heavily ridiculed by all my V8 lovin' mates,till they drove it.
I still own the car,it has covered 190,000kms,makes 250rwkw,and the head has never been off.
This led me to thinking,why have I been a "Ford man",Ford did'nt give me a new car if I stayed loyal.I'm sure no manufacturer does.But I used to buy Ford and was blind to the cars flaws.
My S15 has shown me that Nissan can build a very good car,a fact I never considered before Sept 2001.
I now own a GTR as well,and that has made 370rwkw with stock crank,rods,pistons and head gasket.
And to the guy who said supercars dont come in 6 cylinders,come around with your Commodore and I'll see if I can change your mind.
If the Ford turbo was out in 2001,I'd probably still be ignorant to the Jap cars.
I know this is a GM site,but dont be as ignorant as the dicks at nissansilvia.com,a fast car is a good car,and remember,BOOST IS YOUR FRIEND.

[McobraR]

And to the guy who said supercars dont come in 6 cylinders,come around with your Commodore and I'll see if I can change your mind..

Hmm i wonder if that guy has ever heard of the Jaguar XJ220... 3.5L TT V6. Became the fastest production car in the early 90's, and i must say, would have to be one of, if not, the most beautiful car in the world.

[Gee]

... I drove the 200SX last,that was the year it won PCOTY in Motor.I was stunned how good it was,I bought it there on the spot.I was heavily ridiculed by all my V8 lovin' mates,till they drove it.
I still own the car,it has covered 190,000kms,makes 250rwkw,and the head has never been off ...

Attractive cars if literally butt-ugly until the later s14 series and especially your S15 which is a stunning coupe IMO. Always thought it would be a good thing for the girlfriend (NB. that's not having a go, it wouldn't be practical car for me)

On the other hand, at 250rwkw maybe I need to reconsider. That's a significant increase over what, 150kw at fly standard??

[HSVMAN]

Attractive cars if literally butt-ugly until the later s14 series and especially your S15 which is a stunning coupe IMO. Always thought it would be a good thing for the girlfriend (NB. that's not having a go, it wouldn't be practical car for me)
On the other hand, at 250rwkw maybe I need to reconsider. That's a significant increase over what, 150kw at fly standard??

Quite simply one of the best rwd jappas made - I used to drive one as a company car back then. It was 180kw at flwwheel.

[nang3]

Attractive cars if literally butt-ugly until the later s14 series and especially your S15 which is a stunning coupe IMO. Always thought it would be a good thing for the girlfriend (NB. that's not having a go, it wouldn't be practical car for me)

On the other hand, at 250rwkw maybe I need to reconsider. That's a significant increase over what, 150kw at fly standard??

yeh i love the last shape 2 hundys and was also thinking of getting one for the missus - just so i could drive it as well of course because they do go pretty well with mods.. 250rwkw would be hell nice in such a light car..
If only they had traction control i would have got one for her, but being such oversteer monsters (good for me, baaaaddd for her) in the wet it wouldnt be a good idea for her to drive it haha..

ive been a nissan lover too, started with a SSS Pulsar then R31 skyline, GQ patrol, 4.8l GU Patrol and then 350Z and now switched to ford with a typhoon..

[m&m]

The original suspension was horrible,a mismatch of spring rates and damper.I have changed every suspension arm to rose joint,it now only oversteers when you ask it too,very,very controllable.Traction is still an issue with that power level and only 1260kg,thats why I bought the GTR:yup:

[nang3]

What GTR do you have?? I was very close to buying an R34 GTR before my 350Z but there were no decent ones around and i couldnt wait to find one to import etc.. Still one of my favourite cars

[m&m]

For me to buy an R34 GTR I would have had to sell my S15.I got the R33 instead,that way I can have both.
Having said that,an R34 is still the one I really want,I'm just trying to work out how I can justify to the wife why I need 3 selfish cars,she's still coming to terms with 2:love2:

[nang3]

For me to buy an R34 GTR I would have had to sell my S15.I got the R33 instead,that way I can have both.
Having said that,an R34 is still the one I really want,I'm just trying to work out how I can justify to the wife why I need 3 selfish cars,she's still coming to terms with 2:love2:

hehe good luck, when you figure out how to persuade her let me know !!!
I like all the GTR's pretty much, even the R32 Godzillas even tho they are starting to look a little dated now...

[PASHEN]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've logged on. Interesting topic and opinions.
Some of you may know that I was a HSV man all my life. That is until the XR6T came out. I bought one and decided to make it better, faster and meaner. I must admit I was converted - nothing like the rush of a turbo, believe me it's addictive!

I sold PASHEN about 6 months ago, and am in the market for a replacement vehicle.

I test drove the Clubby again, really wanting it to rock my world. Yeah I missed the V8 - there's nothing like it. But it didn't compare to the total driving experience of the F6. I wanted it too, but it didn't. Those of you who haven't driven one, should. Stay one-eyed HSV, but owe it to your self to drive one.

The F6 will be my next car. (plus a few mods...)

[HazzaHSV]

I saw your old ride in the for sale section. It was a credit to you. Very nicely modified indeed.

But why not have the best of both worlds and turbo a clubby? Even if you leave the motor stock your looking at 350+ rwkw and 1000+ nm of torque and you get the V8 sound along with the whooosh!!


I test drove the Clubby again, really wanting it to rock my world. Yeah I missed the V8 - there's nothing like it.

[m&m]

Twin overhead cams,four valves per cylinder,much better option for boost,its just a more efficient motor.A turbo LS1 is no slouch,but which has run the quicker time????I suppose they have both run in the 9's on slicks,not sure about radials.

[alexcs]

Twin overhead cams,four valves per cylinder,much better option for boost,its just a more efficient motor.A turbo LS1 is no slouch,but which has run the quicker time????I suppose they have both run in the 9's on slicks,not sure about radials.


im sure oyu could get an ls1 turbo to run the same time that an xrt6 or typhoon would run, but at less boost due to simple physics. larger capacity usually means less boost to achieve the same levels.

noone is doubting the turbo fords, they have well and truly proven they are up to the task.

[NinetySix]

I saw your old ride in the for sale section. It was a credit to you. Very nicely modified indeed.

But why not have the best of both worlds and turbo a clubby? Even if you leave the motor stock your looking at 350+ rwkw and 1000+ nm of torque and you get the V8 sound along with the whooosh!!
interesting theory.

certainly better results, but ultimately more bucks

[HazzaHSV]

I understand this but the V8 has more power so can run lower boost to get the same numbers. They can both be made to make killer power. My point is if he wants V8 sound and boost why sacrifice one of them for the other?


Twin overhead cams,four valves per cylinder,much better option for boost,its just a more efficient motor.A turbo LS1 is no slouch,but which has run the quicker time????

[HazzaHSV]

Looking at his last ride I wouldn't think bucks are a big problem. Although if they are then a runout clubby at 50k + 12k for the turbo seems quite reasonable for 350 rwkw and 1000 nm considering the F6 is around 60k stock?


interesting theory.
certainly better results, but ultimately more bucks

[XR8kINGpIN]

There are Turbo LS1's doing 7's (hyparacing)


Is there more then one?