Will there be a tt or super charged VE V6?

[VYSV8]

Any ideas out there if Holden will take on Ford head to head with a forced induction 6 cylinder?

If they do, will they go twin turbo (like the Torry show car) or just get a whipple charger and stick it in between the V.

The SAAB (Sweedish Holden!!) uses 2.8L HFV6 with a single turbo and some pretty trick stainless steel exhaust manifolds, so the engine must be pretty suitable for forced induction!

Will people buy it? or will they just go with the 6.0L!!

[mavss]

If Holden were planning a forced 6, I'd definitely consider it.

I'm not mechanically oriented, but I would think that a V6 could easily accomodate 2 turbos - 1 per bank.

It would have to sit on around 245 kw to :

1) not step on the SS' toes and
2) provide competition to the XR6-Turbo

[macca33]

To be honest, I reckon there would be a huge market for, say, an SV6-T, or TT.

As you've indicated, Saab, a GM subsidiary, is a well known user of the turbocharged engine.

I think that Holden would have to be sensible though and place it between the SV6 and the SS.

F.... Fo......see I can't even say the name, have three engine types in their sporty cars, so Holden could probably find a position, no worries.

I would reckon that SV8 and SS sales would be affected though, so it would be interesting to see how it was tackled, if the turbo option ever became a reality.

Regards,

Macca

[pushrod4life]

I would love to see a return of a supercharged 6 model in both the Holden and HSV range. I even e-mailed HSV to ask them if the XU6 were a possibility with a supercharged Alloytech. =]

[cwhast]

i heard ages ago that Holden can easily get 230kw with a supercharger

[mavss]

i heard ages ago that Holden can easily get 230kw with a supercharger
That's not enough, considering you can achieve that with a naturally aspirated engine these days.

Unless the Supercharger / HFV6 combination can achive more, turbo's the way to go.

[Marco]

It would have to be a pretty narrow market, slotting in between the 190kW SV6 and 260kW SS...would need to be careful not to cannibalise SV8 and SS sales. Particularly given that pretty much every XR6 Turbo sold is an XR8 not sold (ie, why would you pay $8k more for an XR8 that isn't any quicker?)

[Jac001]

It would have to be a pretty narrow market, slotting in between the 190kW SV6 and 260kW SS...)


an sv6 ~$40K rrp
sv8 ~$44.5K rrp

an sv6 turbo would have to sit between both in power output and in price...

i thin it would just eat into sales of the other two with out any meaningfull increase in sales.. thats a lot of $$$ in development and testing

I beleive that the sv8 takes a chunck out of the ss sales as is...

[2001 ITR]

Isn't the Alfa Romeo version of the engine going to be turboed?
http://www.italiancar.com.au/pilot/feature014.htm

Do Alfa have exclusive rights to this variant (Unique Selling Point)? Can it be sold by other manufacturers, or is it like Nissan with the 3.0 litre turbo - Holden could sell it but Nissan couldn't put it in their Aus Skylines (80's).

[nickh]

actully i disagree i believe there is more than enough room for a v6 3.6TT

SV6 is mainly sold as a fleet car (alot of companies have guidelines not allowing V8's now) so hence why the SV6 is popular model in the fleet side of things i believe a turbo wouldnt eat grealtly into the SS sales simply as the cars repesent diff buyer groups

i think the SV6TT would bring a new type of client to Holden like the Xr6t did for ford people that love 200sx or WRX but need more practiabilty a car that can still perform well.

pricing would be a hard one but personally i think pricing should be like this

*SV6 $38490
*SV6TT $42900
*SV8 $44490
*SS $49490

But thats just my humble opionion

[oz_utester]

actully i disagree i believe there is more than enough room for a v6 3.6TT

SV6 is mainly sold as a fleet car (alot of companies have guidelines not allowing V8's now) so hence why the SV6 is popular model in the fleet side of things i believe a turbo wouldnt eat grealtly into the SS sales simply as the cars repesent diff buyer groups

i think the SV6TT would bring a new type of client to Holden like the Xr6t did for ford people that love 200sx or WRX but need more practiabilty a car that can still perform well.

pricing would be a hard one but personally i think pricing should be like this

*SV6 $38490
*SV6TT $42900
*SV8 $44490
*SS $49490

But thats just my humble opionion

i like it!

[Ken]

Intercooled supercharger kit ... We are working on it.

Three main challenges ...
1 - Keeping the price affordable.
2 - Keeping it under the hood-line.
3 - Having the ability for easy calibration nation-wide.

These are challenges ... not road-blocks.
:)

[Danv8]

Would be great on the Rodeo.
:)
And its lower compression ratio would suite it well too for turbo or supercharging as well.

[chops]

Intercooled supercharger kit ... We are working on it.

Three main challenges ...
1 - Keeping the price affordable.
2 - Keeping it under the hood-line.
3 - Having the ability for easy calibration nation-wide.

These are challenges ... not road-blocks.
:)

Are you talking about an OEM offering Ken?
I presume an Eaton style blower similar to the previous offerings?

[Red CV8 R]

If Holden brings out a hipo V6, It needs to be turbo, not supercharged. If they bring out a supercharged V6 it will be a flop like last time. The market wants a turbo commodore IMO.

[Danv8]

If Holden brings out a hipo V6, It needs to be turbo, not supercharged. If they bring out a supercharged V6 it will be a flop like last time. The market wants a turbo commodore IMO.


I would have both S/C and turbo
S/C with a clutch so it will disengage when the turbo spools in for better off boost performance.

[Brendan24688]

I don't see why the car has to be TT. The tory was a show grabber just like the efijy to draw attention away from Ford and other manufacturers. I think we might see a single turbo engine. Out of interest wouldn't the falcon engine be able to get more power out of it due to it's larger capacity and it being an inline motor?

Brendan

[Danv8]

I don't see why the car has to be TT. The tory was a show grabber just like the efijy to draw attention away from Ford and other manufacturers. I think we might see a single turbo engine. Out of interest wouldn't the falcon engine be able to get more power out of it due to it's larger capacity and it being an inline motor?

Brendan


I doubt being an inline motor would make any differences in the power.
But capacity plays the big role of all.

[VY_SS_Commodore]

If they do bring out a turbo variant, it cannot be quicker than the SS model. Otherwise, as other people have said, they will lose sales.

[Connolly]

I expect to see the same motor that was in the torana concept the other year, in some form of car for the VE series. I think this makes sense and would be suprised if they didn't.

[Venom XR]

Holden might need a Turbo V6, especially in the current sales climate, and with Toyota looking at adding a 250kW supercharged V6 AWD Aurion. Would be better being TT just to differentiate more obviously from the other two (and it sounds more impressive.)

I also disagree that every XR6T cannibalises an XR8 sale (ditto for Typhoon/GT) as the turbo car has brought new buyers into the market. I'm sure it has cannibalised some, just not all.

[Connolly]

I dont see why people get worried about V8 sales. Whats the difference is somebody buy a TT commodore instead of a V8, as they are still buying a commodore from holden. I can only see it boosting sales.

[HOTSV6]

I dont see why people get worried about V8 sales. Whats the difference is somebody buy a TT commodore instead of a V8, as they are still buying a commodore from holden. I can only see it boosting sales.



Exactly. And if the TT is a more profitable unit than the V8, Holden will be happy to cannibalise.

[scotty]

i think the SV6TT would bring a new type of client to Holden like the Xr6t did for ford people that love 200sx or WRX but need more practiabilty a car that can still perform well.

pricing would be a hard one but personally i think pricing should be like this

*SV6 $38490
*SV6TT $42900
*SV8 $44490
*SS $49490

But thats just my humble opionion

While there is a V8 available and I have the funds... that will always be my first choice.
For someone who has enjoyed a Rex or similar but now has a family etc... a SV6t or TT would be a likely choice.

I also think that the Turbo should sit above the SV8 in pricing and status...
I would propose it this way.....
*SV6 $38490 190kw
*SV8 $42900 250kw
*SV6TT $44490 260kw
*SS $49490 270kw

Just my 2c

[Connolly]

yeah I think that seems fair

[Dacious]

Nope. Supercharged V6 previously was because it was a 3800, and made for US FWD models, so already existed as a drop-in package. It also slotted neatly between a 140kw V6 and 225 Kw V8.

Ford's got different problems to Holden, not least of which is the cost of their V8 which is assembled here and a unique assembly in the world. Holden gets complete V8s in crates. That's why XR6T is viable and Ford pushes it - they probably make more per car on them than on XR8s. A Holden turbo 6 would cost more to build than a V8 for a relatively few cars, would cost more to warranty/service and likely only vie for limited sales with the V8s. Even if it sold 1:4 with V8s, that's less than 10K cars per annum. Saabs got a different issue, being with being in Europe where turbos are an established and stronger market, and having east-west motors.

I can't see them doing it, not when between L76 and LS2 they have the opposition covered performance wise. They have bigger fish to fry. I don't really think Holden is sweating over a Sportivo Aurion.........

[Red CV8 R]

I would think holden will be watching the sales of the 6 litre SS very carefully. I guess Holden can push on with a 6 litre V8 as its only performance car for only so long. I cant see it being to long with Petrol prices the way they are.

And dont everyone bother turning this thread into a how good on fuel the Gen 3 is because i have owned 2 and they are bloody not! At least not in city driving where alot of them are used.

I think the 3.6 with a turbo would be great, fuel economy when driven off boost and then a whack in the back when given a bootful. Plus the aftermarket potential would be awesome!

There will allways be a market for the V8 but there is a whole host of young guys who would love a turbo 6 rather then a V8. Its all about thinking foward. Or I guess Holden could just leave the market to Ford.

[F6 Hoon]

It would have to be a pretty narrow market, slotting in between the 190kW SV6 and 260kW SS...would need to be careful not to cannibalise SV8 and SS sales. Particularly given that pretty much every XR6 Turbo sold is an XR8 not sold (ie, why would you pay $8k more for an XR8 that isn't any quicker?)

I disagree. Over 50% of FPV's sold are F6's, especially since the auto trans is now an option (75% of F6's are now ordered with the 6-speed auto), without having any effect of the GT/GT-P sales. Any turbo sales are unlikely to eat into V8 sales.

Mind you, I sold my GENIII for a XR6T, so I guess Holden lost out, not Ford.

[Ken]

Are you talking about an OEM offering Ken?
I presume an Eaton style blower similar to the previous offerings?

There may be an OEM option (sometime, I guess), but we are working on an aftermarket concept. Complete kit, as per the LS112.

[mavss]

The only decent mass-produced supercharged cars have a 3-pointed star on the bonnet and the word "KOMPRESSOR" on the back.

As far as pricing goes, I'd price it exactly the same as the SV8 because :

1) Holden would prefer a quick return on their investment and
2) V8 and Turbo fans prefer one or the other, very rarely both, so they won't be shooting each other in the foot.

[mavss]

I would think holden will be watching the sales of the 6 litre SS very carefully. I guess Holden can push on with a 6 litre V8 as its only performance car for only so long. I cant see it being to long with Petrol prices the way they are.

And dont everyone bother turning this thread into a how good on fuel the Gen 3 is because i have owned 2 and they are bloody not! At least not in city driving where alot of them are used.

I think the 3.6 with a turbo would be great, fuel economy when driven off boost and then a whack in the back when given a bootful. Plus the aftermarket potential would be awesome!

There will allways be a market for the V8 but there is a whole host of young guys who would love a turbo 6 rather then a V8. Its all about thinking foward. Or I guess Holden could just leave the market to Ford.
Well said Red :)

[McobraR]

Someone here says that it'l cost holden more to put a Twin Turbo 3.6 V6 in the commie than the V8. Isn't there already a 3.6 V6 TT engine that was put in a european car/concept? this would mean that all the engineering for the engine wouldve been done already, so all holden has to do is get the engine and slot it in the VE just like what they're doin with the V8s.
Also i'd say its better for the 3.6 to get TT than just a single turbo cus a TT layout is slightly better down low, and the 3.6 needs as much low down oomph if its to take on the 4.0L I6