View Full Version : Harrop TSK140 Twin-Screw Supercharger Preview
As many of you have been aware, we have been testing and evaluating our twin-screw supercharger kit. The system is a 140ci (2300cc) Lysholm-rotor-based product which we have had in development for some time. The kit is very similar in concept to the LS112, except twin-screw instead of Roots.
We have not even come close to pushing the limits yet, however our standard (except valve springs & exhaust) LS2 is pushing >400rwkw & >700Nm. Intake temperatures as the charge enters the heads are remaining <50C.
The kit hardware (including 8PK balancer & belt kit) will retail for ~$12,500 for all non-VZ variants.
Although still several weeks off completing the full OEM-style validation testing before releasing for sale ... here are some images.
060513a_TSK140.JPG (http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513a_TSK140.JPG)
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513a_TSK140.JPG
060513b_TSK140.JPG (http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513b_TSK140.JPG)
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513b_TSK140.JPG
060513c_TSK140.JPG (http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513c_TSK140.JPG)
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513c_TSK140.JPG
060513d_TSK140.JPG (http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513d_TSK140.JPG)
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513d_TSK140.JPG
060513e_TSK140.JPG (http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513e_TSK140.JPG)
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513e_TSK140.JPG
HRT Stroker
13-05-2006, 05:08 PM
Fantastic stuff Harrop!!
Looks OEM all the way......
Look forward to some final release stats on this kit after reading about the great results Marrano's got after tweaking on of your Roots style kits on a customers car.........
PS- fixed the pics for you m8.
R8 LS2
13-05-2006, 05:39 PM
Congrats to you Ken and Everyone at Harrop :yup:
What an awsome set up...
You mentioned that you are still testing and validating the system, while i would dearly love to have a test up like that on my LS2, but i spent all my $$$$ just buying the car.
However in the interest of R&D i'm happy to help you out by letting you install one onto my LS2 for continued testing and data collection:nyuk:
Glenn@Autowerks
13-05-2006, 05:46 PM
As HRT Stroker said, looks very OEM, good work Ken and the team :bravo:
Pickles
14-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Looks excellent with "rocker covers"!! - very OEM.
What is the difference between this latest blower, & the previous one. What are the advantages & disadvantages of each. With all other things being equal, what would the differences in driving be, comparing two identical cars, one with the "old" supercharger, & one with the "new"?
Thanks ken. Cheers, Pickles.
Sonny@Autowerks
14-05-2006, 11:26 AM
Great work there ken !!! wat size are those exhaust headers on that engine ?
regards sonny
Looks excellent with "rocker covers"!! - very OEM.
What is the difference between this latest blower, & the previous one. What are the advantages & disadvantages of each. With all other things being equal, what would the differences in driving be, comparing two identical cars, one with the "old" supercharger, & one with the "new"?
Thanks ken. Cheers, Pickles.
The TSK140 (new) is more suited to "big" engines that are purpose-built for supercharging (low compression). The primary differences in the twin-screw vs Roots is that a twin-screw is a compressor (compresses the charge withing the rotor length), and a Roots is an air pump (compresses in the manifold). A TSK140 will typically have lower charge temperatures than an LS112. The TSK140 is more audible than the LS112 ... easily noticed whine. The TSK140 takes more energy to spin (parasitic loss).
It is too hard to answer "what would the differences in driving be, comparing two identical cars" without a specific set of critera.
The LS112 will probably suit "standard" engines best, but the TSK140 will probably suit bored/stroked/cammed engines.
Great work there ken !!! wat size are those exhaust headers on that engine ?
regards sonny
Currently 1.750", but are building a set of 1.875" for evaluation.
The extra bosses/plugs are for individual lambda sensors while on the dyno ... helps diagnose distribution to ensure each cylinder is getting a balanced charge.
:dance:
Sonny@Autowerks
14-05-2006, 11:50 AM
Currently 1.750", but are building a set of 1.875" for evaluation.
The extra bosses/plugs are for individual lambda sensors while on the dyno ... helps diagnose distribution to ensure each cylinder is getting a balanced charge.
:dance:
Good call ken,the bigger pipes will see more mofo ;)
regards sonny
HRT Stroker
14-05-2006, 11:59 AM
Just a quick question about the blowers air flow requirements versus the stock airbox's ability to flow the air required.......is the stocker up to it?
Great to see Twin Screw blowers fitted up without bonnet mods too!
Just a quick question about the blowers air flow requirements versus the stock airbox's ability to flow the air required.......is the stocker up to it?
Great to see Twin Screw blowers fitted up without bonnet mods too!
Although we are testing with the stock air-box (albeit with an extra hole), I think we are certainly reaching the limit of its capability. The OTRCAI that Sonny & associates have been working on may be a good addition for optimum performance. (Sonny ... please send one when available for the GTO :) ).
The biggest limit we have at present is fuel supply ... but we have a (legal & elegant) solution in mind.
:nyuk:
Sonny@Autowerks
14-05-2006, 12:43 PM
. (Sonny ... please send one when available for the GTO :) ).
:nyuk:
We will send as soon as we finish the VY VZ otr cai Ken ;)
regards sonny
HSVJPL
14-05-2006, 03:39 PM
Fantastic result Ken,
Great to see new products/innovations for the LSI/2 series.
Does this set-up use a full 2 bar tune, it's a bit difficult to tell from the photos?
Keep us up to date on your progress
Fantastic result Ken,
Great to see new products/innovations for the LSI/2 series.
Does this set-up use a full 2 bar tune, it's a bit difficult to tell from the photos?
Keep us up to date on your progress
Nope ... still MAF'd as we will probably seek ADR compliance.
Real potential with 2-Bar & OTRCAI :woohoo: :woohoo: :burnout:
MattJ
14-05-2006, 06:56 PM
Very Nice:)
Regards Glenn
gollum
14-05-2006, 07:04 PM
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Southways/060513a_TSK140.JPG
looks like i might have to organise my own " after dark " factory " tour "...now to talk someone into driving the getaway car !! :evil: :machinegun:
nice bit of gear.....:idea:
Smikvyss
14-05-2006, 07:08 PM
If its got one of these on it i will :dance:
Tommy
15-05-2006, 10:04 PM
Sensational.
The only other PD kit in this league is the Starr twin screw, but the intercooler is not very efficient.
From the look of this the intercooler works very well.
How does the low end compare to the roots?
The Starr had great low end but the roots comes on a little earlier.
Lots of potential with a cam upgrade and 2 bar tune.
Might have to get me one.
Great job Ken and Damian. Yet another quality product coming from the Harrop stables. Just as nice as the ls112 kit. Beautifully engineered and all under bonnet.
Smikvyss
16-05-2006, 10:00 PM
Come on Chev get one and stir the Big fella up :stick:
Come on Chev get one and stir the Big fella up :stick:
Hey Rich. I need an LS2 first. Might be the new R&D vehicle:nyuk: How is the big fella?
Smikvyss
16-05-2006, 10:08 PM
Best you get one soon he is good still waiting on a clutch :lol:
I reckon that I might pull out the ex and fit in a tex. Is a good thing in JT's vehicle
I reckon that I might pull out the ex and fit in a tex. Is a good thing in JT's vehicle
damn straight it is
GETUTED
26-05-2006, 05:55 PM
Ken,
Any more info on this unit???
Please keep us posted!! :cool:
Hey Rich. I need an LS2 first. ...
We will have an LS1 version ...
Ken, Any more info on this unit???
Please keep us posted!! :cool:
Progressing well.
Done a few k's now ... and are starting to concentrate on some improvements.
It is quite loud, so we are working on some NVH ideas.We are also doing some more on improving the total boost available ... experimenting with different pulley combinations.:idea:
Bugger of a job ... but someone has to do it !!:p
wraith
29-05-2006, 01:40 AM
how you goin ken i would like to know is there a marginal difference in air discharge temperatures of this kit compared to the roots version on the same given amount of boost. Usually the twin screw comes out on top but would like to know some numbers if they are available. Thanks
how you goin ken i would like to know is there a marginal difference in air discharge temperatures of this kit compared to the roots version on the same given amount of boost. Usually the twin screw comes out on top but would like to know some numbers if they are available. Thanks
You are correct ... the charged-air temperatures are typically lower on a twin-screw. As an indication, the TSK is recording temps that are ~20C lower than the LS112 for the same load.
wraith
29-05-2006, 01:08 PM
It helps being a true compressor but i think the size of the blower helps aswell. 2.3l compared to the 1.8l. The twin screw will be more efficient and not work as hard to create the same amount of boost and should come on to full boost earlier. This should be an awesome kit and give more puff throughout the rev range plus it looks like the best pd setup on the market. Excellent work
APS Fston
29-05-2006, 01:59 PM
Very nice indeed, after working with the 1.8 on a VZ manual and getting it into the 10's im looking forward to seeing how far we can bring this 2.3.
9's would be very nice and a very affordable power add-on.
TTVYSS
31-05-2006, 04:39 PM
Hey Rich. I need an LS2 first. Might be the new R&D vehicle:nyuk: How is the big fella?
I have an LS2 block if your interested?????
Cheers!
Phonsy@GM Motorsport
31-05-2006, 09:41 PM
How much for the block ?
Ken,
Firstly great job on the TSK140.
I noticed the front of the unit angles towards the airbox like the stealth unit. This makes connecting to a standard airbox setup great.
BUT for those people that want to run an OTR it would make sense to have a unit that points straight ahead (like the PWR unit) are they any plans to accomodate that? I realise you can put a flexible hose on, or even a custom OTR like what Sonny has done but if say you wanted to use a PT OTR with a straight connection will there be any options ?
Have you tested that type of setup, does it make a realworld diference in KW, or does the bend make no KW difference just a cosmetic one?
Any chance of a preview video of how loud this sounds at idle and when revving ?
Cheers
exwrx
02-06-2006, 02:08 PM
From memory the setup on Efigy has a straight inlet with OTR, but space issues could be a problem ?
Ken, any indicative costings at this stage?
... for those people that want to run an OTR it would make sense to have a unit that points straight ahead ... are they any plans to accomodate that?
Already modelled and tooling is ready to commence. :D
... Have you tested that type of setup, does it make a realworld diference in KW, or does the bend make no KW difference just a cosmetic one?
No conclusive testing ... but the little play we had with straight vs bent made no significant difference ... but it was not a controlled and conclusive test.
... Any chance of a preview video of how loud this sounds at idle and when revving?
I will take some video when it is next on the dyno.:dance:
Ken, any indicative costings at this stage?
The complete kit (with 8PK balancer & pulleys) will be ~$3000 more than (the same vehicle's) LS112 kit.
e.g. ...
RRP for a LS112 for an LS2 is $9,500
RRP for a TSK140 for an LS2 will be ~$12,500
:woohoo:
Already modelled and tooling is ready to commence. :D
I will take some video when it is next on the dyno.:dance:
Excellent news Ken. You certainly are covering all the bases. Great to hear.
Look forward to see the video.
Cheers
CV8 UK
17-06-2006, 09:24 PM
Ken
Any plans/timeline/indicative pricing for a TSK200?
Thanks
Ken
Any plans/timeline/indicative pricing for a TSK200?
Thanks
It is very unlikely we will do the TSK201, even though we have a preliminary design complete. The market is too small to justify the huge expense in tooling and development.
We will be doing other products tho'. :bounce:
spank
18-06-2006, 06:20 PM
Hey Rich. I need an LS2 first. Might be the new R&D vehicle:nyuk: How is the big fella?
hey gary i have an ls2 vz maloo ute thats sitting in the garage next to the vl doing f*ck all if you want something to play with :idea: it hasnt even had a tune yet
hey gary i have an ls2 vz maloo ute thats sitting in the garage next to the vl doing f*ck all if you want something to play with :idea: it hasnt even had a tune yet
Might that be a nice black unit that was involved in a "minor" incident at HP?
Carby650
18-06-2006, 08:26 PM
G'day. Sorry a tad OT here. With the VE getting L76 with DOD what sort of probs will that present in fitting a supercharger set-up if any?
cheers
carby650
G'day. Sorry a tad OT here. With the VE getting L76 with DOD what sort of probs will that present in fitting a supercharger set-up if any? cheers. carby650
The L76 has different heads, so we are having to make a new manifold to suit (Bugger :( ). The VE is not DOD yet (thankfully), as the DOD valving will make SC'ing a real challenge ... the valving sits quite high in the valley.
Carby650
19-06-2006, 08:37 PM
The L76 has different heads, so we are having to make a new manifold to suit (Bugger :( ). The VE is not DOD yet (thankfully), as the DOD valving will make SC'ing a real challenge ... the valving sits quite high in the valley.
so reading between the lines here if I want to SC anything avoid VE with L76 and DOD?? This forum has me straying away from my "keeping it all stock" mantra and now that the wife has a daily driver I will be trading in the VY SS and getting VE SS. I was looking to play a little. Don't tell me I will be "forced" to buy HSV to do any super charging !! :dance:
so reading between the lines here if I want to SC anything avoid VE with L76 and DOD?? This forum has me straying away from my "keeping it all stock" mantra and now that the wife has a daily driver I will be trading in the VY SS and getting VE SS. I was looking to play a little. Don't tell me I will be "forced" to buy HSV to do any super charging !! :dance:
We certainly will have superchargers for the L76 & VE, but dont have them yet. We had a few packaging issues to overcome as the cowl on the VE is significantly different to anything previously.
It is happening ...
:eyes:
Riley
25-06-2006, 08:23 PM
What is the inter cooler set up being used? Is it the same as the M112?
What is the inter cooler set up being used? Is it the same as the M112?
Yes ... identical.
monsterls1
04-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Congrats Ken and Everyone at Harrop
This is an awesome product, i want one!
Keep up the good work!:woohoo:
GETUTED
05-07-2006, 04:44 PM
Ken, anymore developments with this units? More pics or news or whatever?
cheers
wraith
09-07-2006, 12:01 PM
got any vids of the beast you could perhaps post up? love to hear the whine of this thing, cheers.
KPWISHN
07-09-2006, 08:52 PM
What's the latest on these babies? :cool:
bullant
17-09-2006, 12:04 PM
The complete kit (with 8PK balancer & pulleys) will be ~$3000 more than (the same vehicle's) LS112 kit.
e.g. ...
RRP for a LS112 for an LS2 is $9,500
RRP for a TSK140 for an LS2 will be ~$12,500
:woohoo:
Hi Ken any more news on the new harrop TSK140 Twin srew supercharger
got any vids of the beast you could perhaps post up? love to hear the whine of this thing, cheers.
We are in the process of updating the web site so we can host some video ... should be up next week.
It's a little loud!
Well ...
We have done a lot of dyno time and km's with the TSK in the test vehicle and are very happy with the reliability and durability.
Unfortunately, we have not been quite as impressed with the ultimate performance improvement over our LS112 kit ...
The gains are significant ... but not to the level that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck or make you eyes & brain explode ... YET!
We have made some modifications to the configuration and will be putting it on the 402ci in the GTO this week. This will be the first time we have given it a workout to find the limits on a "big-ish" engine. We now also have the 64 channel data aquisition system hooked up to the dyno so that we can populate the manifold & intercoolers with pressure and temperature sensors to establish exactly what & where it all happens.
If the testing of this revised configuration is as successful as we expect, it is our intention to release the production kit within a few weeks. We have prepared most components so that we can (hopefully) respond to demand reasonably promptly.
This has been a BIG project ... it has taken a lot more time and energy than we expected and we sincerely apologise for the delay ... but we are not willing to release a product that we do not have confidence in.
:yup:
Riley
17-09-2006, 09:03 PM
Ken
Out of interest, what rotor ratios are you using - 5:3 or 6:4?
Ken
Out of interest, what rotor ratios are you using - 5:3 or 6:4?
The Lysholm is a 5:3 ratio.
bullant
26-09-2006, 08:32 PM
The L76 has different heads, so we are having to make a new manifold to suit (Bugger :( ). The VE is not DOD yet (thankfully), as the DOD valving will make SC'ing a real challenge ... the valving sits quite high in the valley.
Hi ken just wanting to know how much the TSK140 twin screw supercharger kit would be for my L76 gen 4.The intercooled one.Also what sort of rwkw would i exspect its a auto.Do you have people in wa that will fit them and at what cost thanks
bullant
22-10-2006, 10:08 AM
Hi Ken any more news as when the TSK140 will be released?:xmas:
KPWISHN
23-10-2006, 10:50 AM
I believe they are advertised in the latest SM mag. Can't be far away. :bow:
Animal
03-11-2006, 12:25 PM
c'mon Ken ..... stop playing with your new toys and post some more updates for us :)
Ken
GETUTED
08-11-2006, 09:09 AM
Harrop are evil bas tards keeping us all waiting like this...... :stick:
Sorry for the extended delay guys ... been doing some other stuff for some OE applications that will certainly benefit the LS community in coming months :)
I intend to have the TSK back on my car this weekend, and with this final test program completion we will hopefully be able to release the finished product.
:yahoo:
fyreblade2000
08-11-2006, 09:42 AM
My wish list is getting longer and longer!!!!!!! :D
Animal
08-11-2006, 09:54 AM
snipped ..... I intend to have the TSK back on my car this weekend, and with this final test program completion we will hopefully be able to release the finished product.
:yahoo:
Final test program :D
I like the sound of that
Animal
08-12-2006, 08:22 PM
** runs ** drops shoulder ** BUMP !!! **
Long time waiting her Mr Nunn :)
At this stage we are not confident that we can overcome the inadequate durability of the drive belts due to the constant high load apllied by the compressor. Unlike a Roots-based supercharger, the twin-screw is always 'active' and has far greater load & parasitic loss.
We have tested a broad range of drive concepts and are not convinced that we have a solution that will satisfy the performance, quality, & longevity expectations of a Harrop customer ... and still be commercially viable.
The decision to further delay the release of this product at this time is not taken lightly, and as you can imagine the finacial incentive for us to get a return on our investment is very significant ... however maintaining the integrity of our reputation for producing high quality solutions is more important.
We sincerely regret any dissatisfaction this causes.
On a positive front, we do have an alternative & superior solution under development for which we are currently finalising the design. It will be available in the first quarter of 2007.
Ken.
Animal
09-12-2006, 09:16 AM
Dam, sorry to hear that Ken, we were looking forward to having a play with one.
Also understand the decision to keep the brand name solid above releasing it to recoup R&D costs.
Was a good right up in SMC too, they even managed to get a reasonable photo of you in the mule :)
Are the new products also of a supercharged variety ?
..... and also great to see Jason at Phillip Island in the top 10 for first practice
Was a good right up in SMC too, they even managed to get a reasonable photo of you in the mule
Best I get a copy ... There are typically a few "Editors Interpretations" in these types of articles.
Are the new products also of a supercharged variety?
Absolutely. There is some new technology which we are assisting with developing ... It may make a few people reconsider their statements on "basic physics". :lmao:
BlownVR
09-12-2006, 12:37 PM
On a positive front, we do have an alternative & superior solution under development for which we are currently finalising the design. It will be available in the first quarter of 2007.
TVS 2300 ??? That would be a real good thing :evil:
I bought the SMC mag yesterday, good story on the fun stuff you get to play with and a few other beasty cars too.
Mondayitus
27-04-2008, 01:54 PM
hate to spring an old thread to life again, but the search feature of this forum has only proven half useful.....
Where do I get the engine cover used here?
hate to spring an old thread to life again, but the search feature of this forum has only proven half useful.....
Where do I get the engine cover used here?
It s a VZ HSV trimmed to suit the blower.
ATOMIC MALOO R8
27-04-2008, 05:24 PM
KEN please excuse my ignorance but have just read this thread from start to finish and am confused you said thear were problems with TSK140 and you didn't want to put it on the market back in 07 but you had something else coming blower related so is the HTV2300 not the TSK140 you started out R/D for VE ? and what is the main difference
thanks
KEEP the good stuff coming
KEN please excuse my ignorance but have just read this thread from start to finish and am confused you said thear were problems with TSK140 and you didn't want to put it on the market back in 07 but you had something else coming blower related so is the HTV2300 not the TSK140 you started out R/D for VE ? and what is the main difference
thanks
KEEP the good stuff coming
The TSK140 was a Lysholm twin-screw based solution, however twin-screws are compressors and therefore have no method of unloading the drive when cruising ... we were not comfortable with the durability of that solution for the Holden application.
The HTV2300 is based on the Eaton TVS2300 rotors as used in the recently announced LS9 engine. Being an air-pump (not compressor) we have developed an internal bypass that enables the drive to be unloaded during cruise and therefore reduce the parasitic loss to neglible amounts.
The HTV2300 runs cooler, quieter, more efficent that the TSK ... and the results have been spectacular.
:)
ATOMIC MALOO R8
28-04-2008, 09:27 AM
The TSK140 was a Lysholm twin-screw based solution, however twin-screws are compressors and therefore have no method of unloading the drive when cruising ... we were not comfortable with the durability of that solution for the Holden application.
The HTV2300 is based on the Eaton TVS2300 rotors as used in the recently announced LS9 engine. Being an air-pump (not compressor) we have developed an internal bypass that enables the drive to be unloaded during cruise and therefore reduce the parasitic loss to neglible amounts.
The HTV2300 runs cooler, quieter, more efficent that the TSK ... and the results have been spectacular.
:)
THANKS KEN for clearing that up how far away is the IN TANK fuel sys TULLY was saying it has been delayed slightly
do you think the surposedly bigger pump on the LS3 would handle the 2300 with out the fuel sys up grade ?
do you sell a straight front plate air intake for the 2300 that would suite an otr ?
cheers
Alex(AUS)
28-04-2008, 01:24 PM
do you sell a straight front plate air intake for the 2300 that would suite an otr ?
X 2
Thanks,
Alex
how far away is the IN TANK fuel sys TULLY was saying it has been delayed slightly
do you think the surposedly bigger pump on the LS3 would handle the 2300 with out the fuel sys up grade ?
We "stepped aside" from the pump development once the original concept was proven, so we have had little influence over the schedule ... however I have been told that the testing is nearing completion and it will be available shortly.
Until the new LS3 pumps have been pushed hard, I would only be speculating ... however the document specification looks encouraging.
do you sell a straight front plate air intake for the 2300 that would suite an otr ?
cheers
We do ... however I do not know if they will be usable with an OTRCAI. They may sit too high to fit under the hood ... we sell them mostly to boat and hot-rod installations.
Next time I have the VE in bits I will try one.
:)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.