Camber correction??

[mightyredrocket]

Hi, i've just lowered my vzss ute and am interested in whether the camber correction kits are worth while.

I spoke to a few places before i put in king springs, with SSL's in the front and just SL's in the back.

It was fairly even with workshops saying they will save tyre wear and others saying it makes no difference to wear (because of the amount of rear end squat under load)

what do you guys think??

[Tron2004]

My original tyres (B530's) wore out heaps on the inside edge after I had my SV8 lowered.
My new GIII's look like they're wearing more evenly but time will tell I spose.
The Bridgestone chap told me that they will install a 2 point camber kit that should fix the excessive camber.
They refuse to fit 4 point kits due to the problem regarding axle ends grinding into the diff centre.

[DUB]

I've had mine lowered right down to almost on the bumpstops and had the camber kit fitted to both sides of the rear trailing arms. This brought the camber from -3.5degrees to a more reasonable -1 degree.
Squat is a momentary thing as far as suspension goes and even under normal suspension height the rear will squat through to more negative camber on any independent rear end anyway. I did +30,000 ks on the last set of tyres with a load in the back with pretty much even tyre wear across the tread.

Never heard of the 4 point camber kit but have heard talk of the half shafts hitting the diff when really low, however what I dont understand is as the rear suspension travels further up into the wheel well, the distance between the diff and the outside wheel hub should be getting slightly longer, not shorter. What Holden expects to happen when a ute is carrying a full load and gets full bump compression I can only guess. BUT when the full camber kit is applied the outside wheel centre actually moves outwards away from the diff centre. Warranty issues with Holden and their crapola diffs have led to a lot of thought on the matter.
If I am wrong and quite possible really then I guess some custom modified half shafts would be the go.

[VX2VESS]

I've had mine lowered right down to almost on the bumpstops and had the camber kit fitted to both sides of the rear trailing arms. This brought the camber from -3.5degrees to a more reasonable -1 degree.
Squat is a momentary thing as far as suspension goes and even under normal suspension height the rear will squat through to more negative camber on any independent rear end anyway. I did +30,000 ks on the last set of tyres with a load in the back with pretty much even tyre wear across the tread.

Never heard of the 4 point camber kit but have heard talk of the half shafts hitting the diff when really low, however what I dont understand is as the rear suspension travels further up into the wheel well, the distance between the diff and the outside wheel hub should be getting slightly longer, not shorter. What Holden expects to happen when a ute is carrying a full load and gets full bump compression I can only guess. BUT when the full camber kit is applied the outside wheel centre actually moves outwards away from the diff centre. Warranty issues with Holden and their crapola diffs have led to a lot of thought on the matter.
If I am wrong and quite possible really then I guess some custom modified half shafts would be the go.

have a look under, closer to the stops the shafts are around horizontal, the shortest position.

Stock setup with low springs won't be a problem for the diff. 4 point kit adjusted too far in to pull the camber back will be a problem on stock shafts. its easy to check, the shafts must have play left when the shafts are horizontal. If they don’t your have a problem.

[Wonky]

If you do a search you will find a fair bit on this though as you already found you will be told conflicting things. Therefore before I lowered my VZ (sedan) I also started a similar thread. See http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=47706

What I ended up doing is deciding to go with the advice that I was given that with the extra link in the suspension on (from memory) VXII onwards most Commodores will have enough adjustment in them to get away without a camber kit. The place that aligned mine after the King superlows were fitted said it was fine though I am keeping an eye on it.

Apparently they are a mongrel to fit so a few hundred for the kit and labour - better to take a wait and see approach if the place doing the alignment says there is enough adjustment without one.

[VX2VESS]

If you do a search you will find a fair bit on this though as you already found you will be told conflicting things. Therefore before I lowered my VZ (sedan) I also started a similar thread. See http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=47706

What I ended up doing is deciding to go with the advice that I was given that with the extra link in the suspension on (from memory) VXII onwards most Commodores will have enough adjustment in them to get away without a camber kit. The place that aligned mine after the King superlows were fitted said it was fine though I am keeping an eye on it.

Apparently they are a mongrel to fit so a few hundred for the kit and labour - better to take a wait and see approach if the place doing the alignment says there is enough adjustment without one.

the extra link bar is to adjust toe and help hold the rear arms from toeing out under power. that why they are positioned where they are behind the arms to stop toe out under power. V8's without these extra rods wear the inside more the the V6's due to the extra torque the v8 has to force tow out of the arms. Toe out wears the inside just as much as the camber EG same thing can happen of the front end with toe out, wear the insides out.

So without the extra arms camber kits are adjusted with more tow in than with the arms, to conterreact the tow out under power. the kits 2 or 4point in reality cannot get much camber correction with the standard CV drive shafts, the shafts prevent it as the more you correct camber the more the wheel is pulled inwards. so they wind up the toe. this make the car more stable and fixes the power toe out, but causes faster wear for normal slow driving across the whole tyre more evenly but much faster wear.

So i guess when done this way the tyres really only last as long as if you just let the insides wear out. Vx2 with the later extra arms and some camber correction will let the tyres last longer than pre VX2 with a 4 point kit.

[Tron2004]

What I ended up doing is deciding to go with the advice that I was given that with the extra link in the suspension on (from memory) VXII onwards most Commodores will have enough adjustment in them to get away without a camber kit. The place that aligned mine after the King superlows were fitted said it was fine though I am keeping an eye on it.
Ok, so ya just had ya car lowered with some King superlows and after a while, notice that the inside edge of both rear tyres are wearing faster than the rest of the tyre... What adjustment is there available to correct the inside tyre wear, prior to getting a camber kit fitted????

[Wonky]

Ok, so ya just had ya car lowered with some King superlows and after a while, notice that the inside edge of both rear tyres are wearing faster than the rest of the tyre... What adjustment is there available to correct the inside tyre wear, prior to getting a camber kit fitted????
IF it happens (which I doubt given the advice I was given beforehand and what the alignment place said after re-aligning it) then I guess I will just not get as many kms from my tyres as I should have. Not the end of the world.

It was a call on whether to spend another $250 or so putting a kit in or taking the advice I had that it should be ok without. I decided to go one way and if it doesn't work out then I'll lose some money on tyre wear. I'm happy with that!

That's the sort of call each of us potentially makes quite a few times when modifying cars - some you win and some you don't.........

[Crusty]

I have a VTII and lowered 30mm with King Low springs. I'm glad I did because even with 16x7 rims and standard height it was chewing out the inside of the tyres, so when I went to 18x8 and lowered I insisted on a camber kit (cost me $250 inc fitting when I did a deal with rims and suspension) now tyre wear is very even and I'm happy with it. IMHO I'd do it again if I lowered another commodore down the track, I just don't trust the IRS setup enough not to chew the tyres out.

[scalpa]

Give the boys at traction tyres in rowville a call on 9764 2811 he fixed mine just right the utes donot have rear adjustment like the sedans and wagons so you will need a kit fitted just to adjust the rear toe.
cheers scalpa

[Wonky]

I have a VTII and lowered 30mm with King Low springs. I'm glad I did because even with 16x7 rims and standard height it was chewing out the inside of the tyres, so when I went to 18x8 and lowered I insisted on a camber kit (cost me $250 inc fitting when I did a deal with rims and suspension) now tyre wear is very even and I'm happy with it. IMHO I'd do it again if I lowered another commodore down the track, I just don't trust the IRS setup enough not to chew the tyres out.
On VTII you definitely need a camber kit. The extra suspension link in the rear (more adjustment) only came in with VXII on.

[Crusty]

On VTII you definitely need a camber kit. The extra suspension link in the rear (more adjustment) only came in with VXII on.

Ahhh thanks for that, learn something new everyday :D

[cygnet]

Hey Guys

Has anyone got a good place in Sydney to get a Tunder lowered?

Thanks

Cygnet

[DUB]

have a look under, closer to the stops the shafts are around horizontal, the shortest position.

Stock setup with low springs won't be a problem for the diff. 4 point kit adjusted too far in to pull the camber back will be a problem on stock shafts. its easy to check, the shafts must have play left when the shafts are horizontal. If they don’t your have a problem.

I had a look at this last night when re-installing some shortened Koni's. When the suspension height is held at stock (using a jack under the diff) the half shafts are slightly angled downwards to the outside. When dropped right down on the race springs the half shafts are then in the mirrored position as stock height, only angled upwards.

If the suspension is set up in the stock position then the shafts would have to travel thru the horizontal position (with greatest effect against the diff) and then up past the horizontal position on bump compression.

Buggered if I can see how being in the ultra-lowered position with the half shafts angled upwards would have any effect on the diff that the stock height doesn't.

[APCLB]

Hey Guys

Has anyone got a good place in Sydney to get a Tunder lowered?

Thanks

Cygnet


I'd like to know who can do a decent K frame alignment in Sydney as well?
Heasemans?

DUB,being mirrored upwards,doesn't this change the toe?Trying to get an better understanding of all this,as I'm getting all this done soon.

[VX2VESS]

I had a look at this last night when re-installing some shortened Koni's. When the suspension height is held at stock (using a jack under the diff) the half shafts are slightly angled downwards to the outside. When dropped right down on the race springs the half shafts are then in the mirrored position as stock height, only angled upwards.

If the suspension is set up in the stock position then the shafts would have to travel thru the horizontal position (with greatest effect against the diff) and then up past the horizontal position on bump compression.

Buggered if I can see how being in the ultra-lowered position with the half shafts angled upwards would have any effect on the diff that the stock height doesn't.

never really looked at ultra low angles. Even if past the horizontal under braking and cornering the body will come up and it will have to drop past horizontal again

[enemyss]

Ive got a vxss
I had it lowered first up bout 1 half inchs and chewed thru tires in about 6 months rears that is!
I had a camber kit put in and toe kit and i now chew thru tires every 8 months so for the money spent a little bit of benefit not much though!
I actually changed to my spare today because my right hand rear was so badly worn on the inside it had passed thru the steel belt!! Far out!!
You lower something you will eventually pay!!