350rwhp??? No way!!!

[VT GEN3]

I have a VT2 SS 6sp manual. I have 4-1 extractors, opened up cats and twin 2.5inch system. Also has Mafless edit and GTS Mafpipe/MonaroCAI & 3.9Gears.

It pulled 210rwkw on sams Dyno. (282rwhp)

A friend of mine has a 94 model VY Ute GEN 3 6spd. He swears black n blue that with a $3500 custom exhaust/Headers/cats only he pulled 297rwhp on dyno. This with standard computer. Then He said he did a mafless edit and pulled 260rwkw (350rwhp) on the dyno with no other mods.

I keep questioning him as I think hes telling porkeys. He swears black n blue. Tune done in Sydney somewhere on a dyno, baulkham hills area.

Is this possible or is this guy just full of crap.

[kayman]

hmm, sounds reasonable to me, maybe just a touch high... happy dyno?

[Knight Phlier]

94 model VY? Or 2004. Did he buy it new or second hand maybe someone else did work on it if it was not bought new.

[VT GEN3]

it was full stock when he bought it. Its a VY series 1.

He reckons his custom exhaust system is the reason for all the power. How can it make an extra 70rwhp over mine with a slightly different exhaust???

Does this motor have any different parts. Ls6 manifold? thats all i can think of???

[seedyrom]

He doesnt have one of these attached to the exhaust does he ?
http://www.3rotor.com/images/hb_build/2002/t88_5.jpg

[Bandito]

I have a VT2 SS 6sp manual. I have 4-1 extractors, opened up cats and twin 2.5inch system. Also has Mafless edit and GTS Mafpipe/MonaroCAI & 3.9Gears.

It pulled 210rwkw on sams Dyno. (282rwhp)

A friend of mine has a 94 model VY Ute GEN 3 6spd. He swears black n blue that with a $3500 custom exhaust/Headers/cats only he pulled 297rwhp on dyno. This with standard computer. Then He said he did a mafless edit and pulled 260rwkw (350rwhp) on the dyno with no other mods.

I keep questioning him as I think hes telling porkeys. He swears black n blue. Tune done in Sydney somewhere on a dyno, baulkham hills area.

Is this possible or is this guy just full of crap.


210rwkw by my reconing is 281.6rwhp

260rwkw is 348.6rwhp so yeah 350rwhp

I have been told that you times rwkw X 1.341 to get your rwhp


:)

[kayman]

i think yours is a little low for a Mafless tune and all that gear you got on, i would be expecting 230rwkw!

[VT GEN3]

He doesnt have one of these attached to the exhaust does he ?
http://www.3rotor.com/images/hb_build/2002/t88_5.jpg


I certainly hope he doesnt have your head attached to his exhaust? haha

[StevieD]

Were these two rwhp figures off the same dyno?

If not put'em on the same dyno on the same day same set up and then you can compare apples with apples

[VT GEN3]

I like that time VY jet. What mods do you have to get a 12.9??

[VT GEN3]

Were these two rwhp figures off the same dyno?

If not put'em on the same dyno on the same day same set up and then you can compare apples with apples

What is done to your car to run a 12.9??

[HazzaHSV]

Get a copy of the dyno sheet and check the IT versus AT. If it is more than 5 - 10 degrees difference that is your answer.

It is not out of the question but would have to have a damn good tune on it and conditions be good. My unopened VY SV8 M6 makes the same power, although I have underdriven balancer and two-hole modded airbox aswell as the other stuff (4-1, catback, mafless) and it had alot of time spent on the tune.

A friend of mine has a 04 model VY Ute GEN 3 6spd. He swears black n blue that with a $3500 custom exhaust/Headers/cats only he pulled 297rwhp on dyno. This with standard computer. Then He said he did a mafless edit and pulled 260rwkw (350rwhp) on the dyno with no other mods.
I keep questioning him as I think hes telling porkeys. He swears black n blue. Tune done in Sydney somewhere on a dyno, baulkham hills area.
Is this possible or is this guy just full of crap.

[VT GEN3]

mine was tuned at sams performance and it only pulled 210rwkw?? Im talking mafless, modded airbox, monaro cai, 4-1 headers, opened up cats and twin 2.5inch system. its also a M6 and has 3.9 gears.

Why would mine be down on power and my mates ripping in the big numbers. almost 70rwhp difference??? my car goes really well but id imagine a car with 70rwhp extra would go better.

Ive seen other posts with VT2 GEN3s getting around 220-230rwkw with similar mods.???? confused..

[VT GEN3]

What else could i do to grab that extra 15-20rwkw? new leads/plugs? run it cooler thermostat? OTRCAI??

My mates numbers seem a little ridiculous.

[SS_Fury]

whats your torque curve look like? i would be more concerned with that than a peak number

[HazzaHSV]

Did you read what I wrote before? 30+rwkw difference could easilly be attributed to the IT and AT being very different to each other. Also different Dyno's read differently. Tell him to go to the dyno day at Sam's next month and run your car back to back with his.

But as others have said its only a dyno reading. Go do some drag runs and see what happens (at an official strip).

PS - The manifold would be helping him a little since the VY has the better manifold. Also his tune might be a bit leaner/on the edge.

Why would mine be down on power and my mates ripping in the big numbers. almost 70rwhp difference??? my car goes really well but id imagine a car with 70rwhp extra would go better.
Ive seen other posts with VT2 GEN3s getting around 220-230rwkw with similar mods.???? confused..

[HardcoreLS1]

I have a VT2 SS 6sp manual. I have 4-1 extractors, opened up cats and twin 2.5inch system. Also has Mafless edit and GTS Mafpipe/MonaroCAI & 3.9Gears.

It pulled 210rwkw on sams Dyno. (282rwhp)

A friend of mine has a 94 model VY Ute GEN 3 6spd. He swears black n blue that with a $3500 custom exhaust/Headers/cats only he pulled 297rwhp on dyno. This with standard computer. Then He said he did a mafless edit and pulled 260rwkw (350rwhp) on the dyno with no other mods.

I keep questioning him as I think hes telling porkeys. He swears black n blue. Tune done in Sydney somewhere on a dyno, baulkham hills area.

Is this possible or is this guy just full of crap.

Take the 2 cars to WSID and you'll see very quickly whether he's making 260 rwkw. Dyno's numbers are good for pissing contests unless it's the same dyno. But to put it into perspective he went from 300 hp to 350 hp so he has definately gained 16-17% which is an approx average gain from a tune even if the final figure is a little optimistic and that is main purpose of a dyno, before & after.

[vyssbeast]

yeh either put your car and his on the same dyno at the same time
OR
take it to the track
and arguement over

[ReMiX]

Now, 350rwhp does seem a little on the happy side from a tune and exhaust.. I'd think it would need cold air, leads and underdrives .. But its not an impossible number.

What exhaust is he running? Twin 2.5", Twin 3" or large single (3.5") ?


But, I dont think thats the issue here.. I'd be pissed at 282rwhp from a full exhaust, cold air and tune .. thats massively below 'the norm', to the tune of atleast 18hp.. If an exhaust, cold air and tune didnt crack 300rwhp .. I'd be a little annoyed, if it only got 280odd .. I'd be asking questions. Is your VT having any O2 sensor issues? where are the O2 sensors located?

You really need to get both cars on the same dyno, within minutes of eachother to see real back to back .. But then there are still issues like heat soak, fuel .. any 'additives'..

[Justice R8]

Tell your mate to enter the dyno comp at Sams next month. If it makes 350 rwhp ill pay for his entry. If it doesnt he pays. It doubt it will make 350 on Sams dyno but I could be wrong. I doubt it though.

Many people believe in myths and magic. Its a bit like all the ls2 that were going to make 300rwkw with OTRCAI exhaust and a tune. I have heard of one that was on here. The next closest was 296 on here. Havent seen any in real life though.

A VY will make a little more than a VT will due to a few different components within the engine.

[VT GEN3]

What do you mean when you say IT to AT?

[VT GEN3]

Tell your mate to enter the dyno comp at Sams next month. If it makes 350 rwhp ill pay for his entry. If it doesnt he pays. It doubt it will make 350 on Sams dyno but I could be wrong. I doubt it though.

Many people believe in myths and magic. Its a bit like all the ls2 that were going to make 300rwkw with OTRCAI exhaust and a tune. I have heard of one that was on here. The next closest was 296 on here. Havent seen any in real life though.

A VY will make a little more than a VT will due to a few different components within the engine.

I dont reckon he will make that number. I was at sams workshop last weekend. Guy had a Supercharger fitted to a 6.0L V8 made 400rwhp. So how can the VY make 350 with just exhaust and tune?

[ReMiX]

What do you mean when you say IT to AT?


DynoDynamics dyno's, running shootout mode 'midify' the results of the run based on Intake Temperature (IT) and Air Temperature.. The system can be fudged if the IT isnt close to the AT .. If the dyno 'thinks' the intake temp is alot higher the the ambient air temp, the software will give a higher reading.. (For AT, they use an external weather station that isnt interfaced with the software. So it can be fudged)..

On the bottom of the power graph, if there is a shootout mode logo.. below that there should be a list, in that list there will be AT and IT, aswell as tyre pressure and gear used and varios other things.. When comparing results, you should always look at IT, AT and what gear was used..

:)

[scotty]

As others have already mentioned... before you get worried about the supposed diffrence in power his car made on a different dyno to your car... go to the same dyno on the same day.. and then you have a good starting point to then compare...

I would take Justice up on his offer.. you never know your mate might get a free dyno run...

You may need to advise you mate not to get dissapointed if he doesn't get a corresponding dyno figure to what he has already....

[VT GEN3]

He just swears black n blue on that number. Costs too much to run them both on a dyno just to prove him right or wrong.

What is difference between dylalog dyno and Dyno Dynamics dyno??

[KPWISHN]

He can swear black and blue all he wants, but you can make a dyno readout say whatever you want. If the dyno he was on wanted it to look good just to keep the guy happy then it sounds like they succeeded.

Your figure sounds very reasonable to me for the mods you have and on a reputable dyno.

A race is the only way to prove a combo. :yup: Dyno figures stand for nothing if they are intentionally made to look high.

[zorro]

have you thought to ask him for a printout of his dyno run????

pick a test an tune night and give him a run.

[HRT 8]

mine was tuned at sams performance and it only pulled 210rwkw?? Im talking mafless, modded airbox, monaro cai, 4-1 headers, opened up cats and twin 2.5inch system. its also a M6 and has 3.9 gears.

Why would mine be down on power and my mates ripping in the big numbers. almost 70rwhp difference??? my car goes really well but id imagine a car with 70rwhp extra would go better.

Ive seen other posts with VT2 GEN3s getting around 220-230rwkw with similar mods.???? confused..

There is a myriad of reasons your car may be down on power.
Crap fuel when tuned.
Oil from breather contaminating the intake charge lowering fuels octane.
Engine in poor state of repair.
and the list goes on.

Dont take it to heart, and your mate can swear black a blue all he likes.

[HazzaHSV]

What $50 each costs too much? Compared to how much all the headers/exhaust/tune etc. I think that is good value for a dyno comp where you get multiple power runs and chance to win trophy's. And if your mate's makes the power he says it is free for him anyway!

He just swears black n blue on that number. Costs too much to run them both on a dyno just to prove him right or wrong.
What is difference between dylalog dyno and Dyno Dynamics dyno??

[SS_Fury]

ill say it again....when are you ever at peak kw?
If your torque comes on strong thats all i would care about

you could go nuts trying to get higher numbers and blow alot of dough....just get your car quick off the mark

[HazzaHSV]

Yep good thing about doing back to back dyno runs with both cars is you can lay the dyno graphs over the top of each other and directly compare all the information (average power, torque etc), not just the peak power as SS_Fury says.

ill say it again....when are you ever at peak kw?
If your torque comes on strong thats all i would care about
you could go nuts trying to get higher numbers and blow alot of dough....just get your car quick off the mark

[10sec_rx7]

I have a VT2 SS 6sp manual. I have 4-1 extractors, opened up cats and twin 2.5inch system. Also has Mafless edit and GTS Mafpipe/MonaroCAI & 3.9Gears.

It pulled 210rwkw on sams Dyno. (282rwhp)

A friend of mine has a 94 model VY Ute GEN 3 6spd. He swears black n blue that with a $3500 custom exhaust/Headers/cats only he pulled 297rwhp on dyno. This with standard computer. Then He said he did a mafless edit and pulled 260rwkw (350rwhp) on the dyno with no other mods.

I keep questioning him as I think hes telling porkeys. He swears black n blue. Tune done in Sydney somewhere on a dyno, baulkham hills area.

Is this possible or is this guy just full of crap.

i know the car, it didnt just get a tune, it also got a otr intake, the car actually made ~305rwhp from memory with the stock tune from a sedan that holden had loaded into it..... i will put money on it that his car will run 12.6-12.8@107-110mph the way it is with the stock diff gears and clutch...few small changes to the exhaust and it will run even quicker.
how do i know because it is exactly the same power as what OAKIE makes and is 10hp more than what my car made when it ran 12.1!!!

bring your car down tomorrow arvo and ill power run it for you for nothing just to show you... you will find the IT and AT are with in 2-3 deg of each other as the IT probe was still wrapped around the pole on the wall, ill even post the dyno sheet for you tonight.

remember dyno logs read around 10-15kw less at these power levels.


Its a bit like all the ls2 that were going to make 300rwkw with OTRCAI exhaust and a tune. I have heard of one that was on here. The next closest was 296 on here. Havent seen any in real life though.
.

what 12.0 not good enough for you?? got the time slip if you want to see it.....

[DUS]

Mate as every one has said dont get hung up on dyno numbers you dont drive your car on a dyno it is only a tool and a guide to see where you are at.Take both cars to eastern creek on wednesday $45 and you will soon know and meet some people and have fun.If i were your mate i would take Justice up on that offer

Dus

[10sec_rx7]

dont worry the car in question will be at WSID in a few weeks

[vt350phantom]

dyno numbers also depend on whether the dyno was run in shootout mode or not. Non shoot out = higher number.

[10sec_rx7]

it was run in shoot_8, and it will run 12's at the creek in a few weeks

ill post the sheets later tonight

[Justice R8]

what 12.0 not good enough for you?? got the time slip if you want to see it.....

Doesnt have to be good enough for me. Drag times dont really impress me as its not really my cup of tea. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

300rwkw with tune and exhaust is an almighty effort considering we have seen it here twice. I would think everytime someone cracks a number like that it would be posted on this forum but as I said I have only seen it twice and then the threads seem to drop into oblivion.

[Oztrack Tuning]

A dynolog and a dynodynamics should correct to the same figure if the runs are done at the same ambient temp ....and the owner of the dynodynamics dyno has got an accurate thermometer and entered the temp accurately. The dynolog does it automatically.

No chance an LS2 will do a true 300rwkw on a dynolog or an accurate dynodynamics dyno. If it did it would do over 120mph at the strip !!
My car is 118.6mph with 275rwkw Markone is a little over 120 with 283rwkw Deejay is around 275rwkw in a M6 and doing over 120 - a car with 300rwkw in a M6 will run 120 at full weight.

[10sec_rx7]

A dynolog and a dynodynamics should correct to the same figure if the runs are done at the same ambient temp ....and the owner of the dynodynamics dyno has got an accurate thermometer and entered the temp accurately. The dynolog does it automatically.


incorrect,
i have run my car on both dynos, just over 10kw difference with the same ambient temp etc.

[TRY-300]

Dyno figures done mean nothing take it down to a drag strip the MPH will tell you all you need to know!!!:yup:

[VT GEN3]

i know the car, it didnt just get a tune, it also got a otr intake, the car actually made ~305rwhp from memory with the stock tune from a sedan that holden had loaded into it..... i will put money on it that his car will run 12.6-12.8@107-110mph the way it is with the stock diff gears and clutch...few small changes to the exhaust and it will run even quicker.
how do i know because it is exactly the same power as what OAKIE makes and is 10hp more than what my car made when it ran 12.1!!!

bring your car down tomorrow arvo and ill power run it for you for nothing just to show you... you will find the IT and AT are with in 2-3 deg of each other as the IT probe was still wrapped around the pole on the wall, ill even post the dyno sheet for you tonight.

remember dyno logs read around 10-15kw less at these power levels.






what 12.0 not good enough for you?? got the time slip if you want to see it.....

I may have to come take you up on your offer. To be honest I am a little disappointed in my power number 210rwkw. My car is in super condition and in perfect running order. It should have made more power but thats life.

[KeenGolfer]

Dyno figures done mean nothing take it down to a drag strip the MPH will tell you all you need to know!!!:yup:

That's not entirely true either. MPH can vary greatly on the same car with setup and driver skill. If you grab a very good bolt-on car and drive it off the line with street tyres you might get 110-112 mph, but setup the car to handle 6000 rpm clutch dumps and add slicks, right suspension etc and you might run 115-120 mph as some bolt on cars are doing.

MPH at the track does not tell the entire story, it is an indication only depending on car setup and driver skill.

[Oztrack Tuning]

logging at the track or on a road 100-160kph is probably the best test of new found power.

Good logging tools can display change in time over any logged speed change.

[Oztrack Tuning]

Certainly most accurate to just look at the logs 100 to 160kph on the track since its a flat surface. Its just a bit hard to independently verify as a timeslip but the owner will know what they have gained rather than having to as Drewbytes just said rely on getting a good 60 footer to do a time worthy of the power the car shows.

100 to 160 is high enough to not need super tyres and is a long rnough time to spread out measurement errors.

[markone2]

logging at the track or on a road 100-160kph is probably the best test of new found power.

Good logging tools can display change in time over any logged speed change.


I always would have agreed with you there Dr Data..BUT for current results presently on the board..MR Deejays bolt-on has more mph pickup from the 660ft to the traps than the cammed big *T* / Cam and Nos ute and only the big 427 stroker outgunning the Master peddlers wee bolt on..:)

1/ 427 Stroker
2/ Unopened M6
3/ Cam and NOS
4/ The *T*



VX SS........ 6.898@99.40 …10.835@125.87.. ..427 Stroker ……….26.47mph
GarethSS…….6.945@101.95 ..10.840@125.85 …Cam and Single T…23.9 mph
SLY ........ ..7.001@102.30 ..10.865@126.52 ….Cam and NOS……24.22mph.
DEEJAY……...7.258@95.74 …11.309@122.19…...Bolt-on…………... 26.45mph

[Tonner]

Yeh, so cop that Doc, lol

[Oztrack Tuning]

Easy to answer Tonner.
Trap speed sensors cant be trusted - i have confirmed this with WSIDs technical people - there are a heap of reasons why these things can give us errors that include reflectivity of the track and detection equipment placement.

I have seen errors of plus or minus 2mph often at both half track and end track at WSID as well as sometimes up to 3mph.

I'll bet a log on these cars that has time and kph would show a reliable result. My car is doing 100-160kph in 4.2s in race trim. All these cars would be quicker than it and some probably under 4s.