Territory Turbo review on Go Auto

[sandmanls1]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/E9FAC9DF046C769ECA257196002B6E58

Interested to hear people's thoughts..

How about a new project for Tuna?

Carry five kids and run 12's?

One I saw in red (Ghia) at the motor show looked great with the scoop and 18 inch rims.

[BLOWN...VY]

I think Mr. Tuna has already had a play with a few territorys, from what I have heard the owners wer very impressed. Now that they have turbo's will make him even busier.

[Ghia351]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/E9FAC9DF046C769ECA257196002B6E58

Interested to hear people's thoughts..

How about a new project for Tuna?

Carry five kids and run 12's?

One I saw in red (Ghia) at the motor show looked great with the scoop and 18 inch rims.
It's my next car....

[BOF crewman X8]

And Mine!!:bounce:

[ACT_Cross8]

And Mine!!:bounce:

Why not just put a TT on the X8?

[magvz]

wife would love one. but not with that price tag

[VE Turbo]

Funny comment in that review about not wanting to get stuck on the beach, hence the top mounted intercooler. lol.
Damm things are too low for the beach, remember, you have to go overland first to get to the beach. Usually a deep rutted sand track.
The Terris do a nice job of gradeing the centre of the track and leaving the rear control arms behind.

[SV99]

LOL so your one of the dickheads who cant drive off road properly and rut the tracks too no end. spose you dont let ur tyres down on the sand either. :flip2:


This will be interesting. 0-coles in 12.2

[Stevotski]

This will be interesting. 0-coles in 12.2

more like 0-coles in 8 minutes (you would have to stop for fuel on the way) :stick:

[zorro]

'Unofficially, the result is better performance than that offered by V8-powered luxury SUVs like BMW’s X5 4.4, Benz’s ML500 and the Porsche Cayenne S – for less than half the price'

Thats awesome, was only a matter of time. Hate to say it but ford have another winner.

[Avalanche]

Interesting, i wonder how it would compare to the avalanche??????? I wonder if there will be cyclone out from fpv in the near future?

[Avalanche]

The new add for the terri can be the mums still pulling up in their big 4x4s with the exhaust brakes & truck noises. Then the ohter mums can pull up in their terris with the doof doof going and a nice loud pssshhh from their blow off valves.

[seedyrom]

How about a new project for Tuna?

I believe he's already got one on order
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=579795&postcount=3

Should be fun to watch

[Martin_D]

We have the software for the SY Turbo Territorys in place now, and can tune them. After having a look through the code I can tell you they are EXTREMELY conservative from the factory! It should be possible 'Tune Only' to get a 13 second pass out of one of these without too much fuss :)

[VT 2 EXEC LS1]

i saw a prototype one of these a month ago and had a car bra on the front. and even got a look under the bonnet and looked very neat and went very nice.

[Souljah]

We have the software for the SY Turbo Territorys in place now, and can tune them. After having a look through the code I can tell you they are EXTREMELY conservative from the factory! It should be possible 'Tune Only' to get a 13 second pass out of one of these without too much fuss :)
I bet it will raise a few ss owners eyebrowes when a 2 ton terry gives em a run!

[Doug]

I am considering a Turbo Territory to replace the old Calais. Comfort and easy overtaking on long runs into the country, flexibility and more volume in what you can carry, and the ability to do some (very) light off road work. Seems a lot more flexible and functional than the Calais, while still having a little performance kick. Looking forward to test driving one.

[Swordie]

Shame Ford can't do a turbo (sporty) version of their wagon.

[Souljah]

An XR6 Turbo wagon would be sex on wheels :bow: :drool:

[nikola]

That wasn't so much a review but an advertising brochure.

[NinetySix]

shame they dont make a RWD version of the turbo terry...

call it the territory XR or something? lighter sportier and faster.... as if any of them will really see any off road work any way :lol:

[sandmanls1]

let us know how you go Doug, must be time to trade in the Calais soon...

[NinetySix]

and another thing, why the hell dont ford offer the turbo engine across most of the range? how popular were VL calais turbos ffs! be nice to see the better boss v8's in a fairmont ghia too rather than the 3v boat anchor

[VE Turbo]

LOL so your one of the dickheads who cant drive off road properly and rut the tracks too no end. spose you dont let ur tyres down on the sand either. :flip2:


This will be interesting. 0-coles in 12.2


Did you actually absorbed what was written in that post SV99?
Does it say that I had driven the Terri on the beach?
Maybe it suggests that I have been slowed down on the track by one of these fools that try to take them on the beach, duh.
Having driven for more years than you have been alive, yes I think I know how to drive by now.
Name calling just reveals your lack of maturity, and brains.

[jerrel]

for $64k, id rather get a clubsport

[Nobby]

and another thing, why the hell dont ford offer the turbo engine across most of the range? how popular were VL calais turbos ffs! be nice to see the better boss v8's in a fairmont ghia too rather than the 3v boat anchor

Mate, FF.com.au has been abuzz with people demanding a Fairmont Turbo, Ford just dont care.

Yet.

[VT 2 EXEC LS1]

and another thing, why the hell dont ford offer the turbo engine across most of the range? how popular were VL calais turbos ffs! be nice to see the better boss v8's in a fairmont ghia too rather than the 3v boat anchor

those 3v ones go heaps harder that the boss engine lots more torque. i would have one of them before a boss engine but i would still rather an ls1.

[McobraR]

for $64k, id rather get a clubsport

But imagine if you were much older and had a family? i think the territory would be the better choice. Thats what i think ford is targetting at.

edit: and if you still choose to get the clubby, im pretty sure ur wife will force you to change ur mind lol

[HSVMAN]

for $64k, id rather get a clubsport

Or if you had to stay AWD an LX8 would be better for sure! Better spec IMO and more power whilst probably better economy too but they stop making them..... Cos they never marketed the bloody things :bash: stupid stupid stupid stupid :thump: :banghead:

[Carby]

To my mind there is something intrinsically grotesque in having a 2 tonne plus AWD that are meant to go fast like a performance car? What are they aiming for, performance, practicality or offroad ability? The car to my mind does not cater fully for any of the above - it is trying to be too many things to too many people.

Anyone who thinks that sticking a turbo on a AWD makes it a performance car is crazy - it doesn't have the body shape for good handling or aerodynamic efficiency - there's more to performance than straight line speed.

I'm not confining these comments to the Territory as both BMW and the Cayenne Porche AWD are also in this league. When MOTOR took the X5 BMW to the track it was good - but definitely was not a performance car.

Anyway they will probably sell like hot cakes, but "blowed" if I can see the attraction.:)

[keen]

Hey Tuna ...is it true you had a tinker with one of these?What did you do?and what sort performance did you get out of it?

[HSVMAN]

To my mind there is something intrinsically grotesque in having a 2 tonne plus AWD that are meant to go fast like a performance car? What are they aiming for, performance, practicality or offroad ability? The car to my mind does not cater fully for any of the above - it is trying to be too many things to too many people.

To a lot of people that is the case but look at it this way. To have a vehicle that can tow a 2 tonne plus boat with ease, go off road (yes off road) but not deep rutted boulder covered terrain, wer'e talking light off road such as outback roads - gravel, snow, sand etc, drop the kids off at school, take the lads to golf or on a weekend fishing/hunting trip. If it can do all of that yet still drive like a car and handle safely in an emergency situation then my friend, welcome to the new and fastest growing automotive market :yup:
Its just that some people do buy the cars they dont need or to show they have more money (or borrowed more mostly) and they are only ever driven in town and that is a shame yes but to own one and use it for what it is intended for is a different story

[Doug]

let us know how you go Doug, must be time to trade in the Calais soon...

Will do.

(I'll ask for a trade in value, but expect only small change. Private sale seems like too much hassle, so I expect I will garaged the car for weekend fun.)

[turbo6]

To my mind there is something intrinsically grotesque in having a 2 tonne plus AWD that are meant to go fast like a performance car? What are they aiming for, performance, practicality or offroad ability? The car to my mind does not cater fully for any of the above - it is trying to be too many things to too many people.

Anyone who thinks that sticking a turbo on a AWD makes it a performance car is crazy - it doesn't have the body shape for good handling or aerodynamic efficiency - there's more to performance than straight line speed.

I'm not confining these comments to the Territory as both BMW and the Cayenne Porche AWD are also in this league. When MOTOR took the X5 BMW to the track it was good - but definitely was not a performance car.

Anyway they will probably sell like hot cakes, but "blowed" if I can see the attraction.:)


I don't believe they are marketed as a performance car? For what they are, bloody good value IMO. I have one on order for the wife, some injectors and an edit later and it should see a low 13 at the worst. Taking it up the beach will be great fun!

One day you may be "blown" by one with the whole family in the back and then you may see the attraction. Try and do it in the wet and then you will really understand.:lol:

[BlueVZSS]

To my mind there is something intrinsically grotesque in having a 2 tonne plus AWD that are meant to go fast like a performance car? What are they aiming for, performance, practicality or offroad ability? The car to my mind does not cater fully for any of the above - it is trying to be too many things to too many people.

Anyone who thinks that sticking a turbo on a AWD makes it a performance car is crazy - it doesn't have the body shape for good handling or aerodynamic efficiency - there's more to performance than straight line speed.

I'm not confining these comments to the Territory as both BMW and the Cayenne Porche AWD are also in this league. When MOTOR took the X5 BMW to the track it was good - but definitely was not a performance car.

Anyway they will probably sell like hot cakes, but "blowed" if I can see the attraction.:)

Have you driven a Porsche Cayenne, especially the turbo? I can tell you that they are a genuine off-roader and go like the clappers is a staright line as well as stop better than most sedans. Handling is pretty good for a 2 ton vehicle to boot. I doubt that the territory is in the same league.

[Marco]

Maybe I'm missing something*, but why is the Territory a better family car than a regular Commodore or Falcon sedan (or wagon, if you need the load space)?


* ie, I don't have a family to cart around so maybe it's obvious to everyone else...

[HSVMAN]

Maybe I'm missing something*, but why is the Territory a better family car than a regular Commodore or Falcon sedan (or wagon, if you need the load space)?
* ie, I don't have a family to cart around so maybe it's obvious to everyone else...

It is not necessarily better, less space, less power, less handling, poor quality interior trim, but looks good, higher ride height, most bells & whistles, and versatile and marketed well :)

[Carby]

I don't believe they are marketed as a performance car? For what they are, bloody good value IMO. I have one on order for the wife, some injectors and an edit later and it should see a low 13 at the worst. Taking it up the beach will be great fun!

One day you may be "blown" by one with the whole family in the back and then you may see the attraction. Try and do it in the wet and then you will really understand.:lol:


I don't think you need a Turbo to go along the beach, nor a turbo to drive in the wet - the std territory also tows extremely well - please explain the attraction of having 2.2 tonnes of performance 4WD in the Territory's case?

[Mr Moosh]

welcome to the new and fastest growing automotive market :yup:


Territory sales are down 20%...

[HSVMAN]

I don't think you need a Turbo to go along the beach, nor a turbo to drive in the wet - the std territory also tows extremely well - please explain the attraction of having 2.2 tonnes of performance 4WD in the Territory's case?

Why did you buy a GTO? Why not buy a CV8 or a smaller coupe?

I guess its the same for those that must (or want to) have AWD (not 4WD) yet maintain power on tap when they want it. I do note that they have lowered the Terri however only because it wouldnt handle at its original ride height with the extra horses :)

[HSVMAN]

Territory sales are down 20%...

And I'm not surprised.
I'm talking about AWD/Crossover/SUV type vehicles and not Territory on its own :)

[Carby]

Why did you buy a GTO? Why not buy a CV8 or a smaller coupe?

I guess its the same for those that must (or want to) have AWD (not 4WD) yet maintain power on tap when they want it. I do note that they have lowered the Terri however only because it wouldnt handle at its original ride height with the extra horses :)

Easy, I wanted a performance car and I wanted the best I could afford. As a performance car the GTO is better than a CV8. If I wanted a 4wd I'd get the best 4WD I could afford for the intended purpose - I fail to see what the addition of a Turbo would do for the Territory other than take more fuel. Both would handle towing, Beach driving, normal road use and light offroad work similarily.

[Carby]

Have you driven a Porsche Cayenne, especially the turbo? I can tell you that they are a genuine off-roader and go like the clappers is a staright line as well as stop better than most sedans. Handling is pretty good for a 2 ton vehicle to boot. I doubt that the territory is in the same league.

No I haven't, nor do I wish to - why build a high performance 4WD? I don't care how good the brakes are, you don't need 335KW to go off road, this is just typical German overkill - build it because they can.

Don't think I'm a wowser - I don't have a problem with 335kw in a svelt Porche performance car - because that is what it is intended for!

[paulvdb]

It is not necessarily better, less space, less power, less handling, poor quality interior trim, but looks good, higher ride height, most bells & whistles, and versatile and marketed well :)

Not quite right HSVMAN - it has more overall space than either the Falcon or Commodore wagons and is better packaged - ie the space is used more effectively.
Yes it has a worse power/weight but it's certainly better than nearly all people movers and other non-v8 AWDs.
Re handling - you may want to go back to the magazine handling test in which the Terri came 6th - compared to sedans.
Poor quality trim - same trim as other Aussie cars so no different really to any Falcon/Commodore. Functionally it's a better setup than the Commodore benefitting from a being a more recent layout. VE looks more like the Terri setup and therefore should fix that issue for Holden.

For the non-family sorts you'd be surprised how much junk you need to take with you when you go away from home - even a weekend away fills the back. A sedan simply wouldn't take what I put in the back of my Terri and would be harder to get in/out - especially with the new small boot openings in new sedans (I'll bet VE is going to be a pain in the rear).

[rs2000]

Territory sales are down 20%...

i'd think adventra would love to have 20% of territory overall sales that way it may get it thru another model cycle..or has it already been confirmed for deletion.:cussing:

[HSVMAN]

No I haven't, nor do I wish to - why build a high performance 4WD? I don't care how good the brakes are, you don't need 335KW to go off road, this is just typical German overkill - build it because they can.

Don't think I'm a wowser - I don't have a problem with 335kw in a svelt Porche performance car - because that is what it is intended for!

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit there old sport :)
Why build a high performance anything?
AWD vehicles are not just intended for off road - sorry but you are missing my point.
There is a difference between 4WD and AWD for a start. If you want to do some serious off road stuff, ie deep ruts, boulders, steep incline entry exit bla bla then you buy a dual ratio, diff locking, purpose built vehicle - the best IMO is Rover and then we have the Jappa and other versions which are very good also.

AWD uses constant drive usually with higher percentage to the rear and a number of different methods of electronic drive control systems depending on brand or some use a primary front or rear drive with a secondary drive to the opposing wheels when extra traction is required.
Hope thats in simple enough terms for ya :)

[Ghia351]

Territory sales are down 20%...
But has dropped less then it's opposition....and still leads, so what.

[Mr Moosh]

But has dropped less then it's opposition....and still leads, so what.

It was in relation to a comment about a "growing segment"... Sure it used to be, but like large cars, SUV sales are slipping.
And what do you mean "so what"? A 20% drop is pretty significant, im sure ford wouldn't be sitting around thinking "ooo territory sales are down 20%, so what?".

anyway the threads about the turbo territory

[Carby]

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit there old sport :)
Why build a high performance anything?
AWD vehicles are not just intended for off road - sorry but you are missing my point.
There is a difference between 4WD and AWD for a start. If you want to do some serious off road stuff, ie deep ruts, boulders, steep incline entry exit bla bla then you buy a dual ratio, diff locking, purpose built vehicle - the best IMO is Rover and then we have the Jappa and other versions which are very good also.

AWD uses constant drive usually with higher percentage to the rear and a number of different methods of electronic drive control systems depending on brand or some use a primary front or rear drive with a secondary drive to the opposing wheels when extra traction is required.
Hope thats in simple enough terms for ya :)



At the risk of being crass I think your comprehension needs tightening up. You are only stating the obvious re: AWD and 4WD. If you don't know why they build performance cars I'd suggest you have never driven one on a racetrack/ drag strip/driver training like many others who buy those cars do.

You still haven't answered why we need high performance motors in AWD vehicles like the Territory. In my opinion a Turbo diesel option would far better suit the Territory for it's intended purpose - especially in these days of high fuel prices.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Territory is one of the best soft roaders going around - it has great looks and is very versatile, just can't see why it needs a Petrol Turbo motor in it.

[Ghia351]

It was in relation to a comment about a "growing segment"... Sure it used to be, but like large cars, SUV sales are slipping.
And what do you mean "so what"? A 20% drop is pretty significant, im sure ford wouldn't be sitting around thinking "ooo territory sales are down 20%, so what?".

anyway the threads about the turbo territory LOL, A growing segment because more cars are entering into it. Sure 20% down is pretty bad, however it's kept ahead of its oppostion, just like Commodore is down over 30% but still ahead of its opposition. The turbo is planned to sell about 200 a month at best with some swapping between intra-models and some brand conquests.

[Ghia351]

Don't get me wrong, I think the Territory is one of the best soft roaders going around - it has great looks and is very versatile, just can't see why it needs a Petrol Turbo motor in it......because it will increase sales and it is the marquis model in that range....might not make economic sense but in a brand marketing/image sense is is considered a net gain.

I'm a perfect target market...would buy an XR6T with luxo pack in a hearbeat, but need a wagon to carry the dog, luggage for family which can include bike, clothes, toys, toys, toys, etc...and the Terry T gives me the performance increase, better handling then a lot of cars as Wheels comparo showed for a small increase in fuel use (over the n/a T) that will gladly be compensated by the greater "driving enjoyment"

[Carby]

.....because it will increase sales and it is the marquis model in that range....might not make economic sense but in a brand marketing/image sense is is considered a net gain.

I'm a perfect target market...would buy an XR6T with luxo pack in a hearbeat, but need a wagon to carry the dog, luggage for family which can include bike, clothes, toys, toys, toys, etc...and the Terry T gives me the performance increase, better handling then a lot of cars as Wheels comparo showed for a small increase in fuel use (over the n/a T) that will gladly be compensated by the greater "driving enjoyment"

To me you are a perfect target for two cars - a N/A Territory for practicality and something like an MX 5 for "enjoyment".

I have difficulty coming to terms with driving enjoyment from a 2.2 tonne behemoth with a tall centre of gravity especially when it is crammed full of family and luggage - but each to his own............

[Ghia351]

To me you are a perfect target for two cars - a N/A Territory for practicality and something like an MX 5 for "enjoyment".

I have difficulty coming to terms with driving enjoyment from a 2.2 tonne behemoth with a tall centre of gravity especially when it is crammed full of family and luggage - but each to his own..............actually 3..need a new van but that's a sad story.

[VZGEN4]

It may go fast in a straight line and maybe good in the wet but sheesh, hows this thing gonna go around corners??

Hope it's got good brakes!

[sandmanls1]

see the latest wheels, lots of fun on dirt, and yes the ESP nanny can be turned off..

Ford built it good on them, the buyers will come, especially if you need a practical family truckster with some performance. Beats an X5 V8 for about half the price. Can't wait to see what Tuna does with one.

[russlee29]

Not quite right HSVMAN - it has more overall space than either the Falcon or Commodore wagons and is better packaged - ie the space is used more effectively.
Yes it has a worse power/weight but it's certainly better than nearly all people movers and other non-v8 AWDs.
Re handling - you may want to go back to the magazine handling test in which the Terri came 6th - compared to sedans.
Poor quality trim - same trim as other Aussie cars so no different really to any Falcon/Commodore. Functionally it's a better setup than the Commodore benefitting from a being a more recent layout. VE looks more like the Terri setup and therefore should fix that issue for Holden.

For the non-family sorts you'd be surprised how much junk you need to take with you when you go away from home - even a weekend away fills the back. A sedan simply wouldn't take what I put in the back of my Terri and would be harder to get in/out - especially with the new small boot openings in new sedans (I'll bet VE is going to be a pain in the rear).


More overall space than Falcon or Commodore wagons??? I think the sales guys did a number on you. Most of that space is air space, pretty hard to use. floor space of Falc & commodore wagons is way supeiror to Territory.

Territory has been a marketing success, but for functionality, space performace, driveabilty Adventra V8 has it in spades for me

Just my 2 cents worth

[Ghia351]

It may go fast in a straight line and maybe good in the wet but sheesh, hows this thing gonna go around corners??

Hope it's got good brakes!
Brakes from the GT Falcon.

[Venom XR]

Spades for you perhaps, but not the rest of the market it seems. Ford fans wanted it, and it's no surprise Holden fans sticking the boot in wondering why they did it at all.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy the Captiva. My other half has an Escape, similar sized, FWD with 4WD when needed just like Captiva, 3.0 V6 so simiarly sized engine, and it does the job just fine, as I'm sure the Captiva will. Hardly inspiring though...

[turbo6]

I don't think you need a Turbo to go along the beach, nor a turbo to drive in the wet - the std territory also tows extremely well - please explain the attraction of having 2.2 tonnes of performance 4WD in the Territory's case?

There is a very clever ad that Porsche have about the Cayenne - usually in the Fin Review. It says "If you can't work out why you need 450bhp to pick the kids up from school, then you are not giving the problem your full attention."

I don't need over 400rwkw's in my Typhoon, but I have it. Why? Because I can.

[HSVMAN]

At the risk of being crass I think your comprehension needs tightening up. You are only stating the obvious re: AWD and 4WD. If you don't know why they build performance cars I'd suggest you have never driven one on a racetrack/ drag strip/driver training like many others who buy those cars do.
You still haven't answered why we need high performance motors in AWD vehicles like the Territory. In my opinion a Turbo diesel option would far better suit the Territory for it's intended purpose - especially in these days of high fuel prices.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Territory is one of the best soft roaders going around - it has great looks and is very versatile, just can't see why it needs a Petrol Turbo motor in it.

Cheers for the tip!
I stated the obvious to make a point. AWD vehicles can be better suited to higher power output (than 4x4) because they are more versatile. At the risk of flogging a dead horse here, others have also tried explaining the purpose of a high powered SUV's.
Lets just imagine buying one but never leaving the tarmac..... What you get is the safety of AWD with the power to enjoy whether it be towing or whatever. Some SUV type vehicles are not suited and could be downright dangerous with too much power however I am sure Ford have done a great job of making the Terri a stable and willing beast on (or off) the road.
Would I buy one? No, I'd rather an Adventra, more space and power again!
We dont need them, we want them! Otherwise they wouldnt build them, simple, period.
BTW I've owned & driven performance cars all my life including race and track work ;)

[paulvdb]

More overall space than Falcon or Commodore wagons??? I think the sales guys did a number on you. Most of that space is air space, pretty hard to use. floor space of Falc & commodore wagons is way supeiror to Territory.

Territory has been a marketing success, but for functionality, space performace, driveabilty Adventra V8 has it in spades for me

Just my 2 cents worth
Ok - I will qualify my comment. There's overall more space in the cabin for annoying things like people. Being 30cm longer overall the Adventra has a much larger load area, which in my case was not required. I'm happier with the extra leg space (5cm more in the front and 6cm more in the back) and shoulder room (3cm more) plus the fact that the A pillar doesn't try to kill you like it does in the Falcon. For me at least this is a better utilisation of space. Much of the extended length of the Adventra is wasted in having a huge storage space in a >5m long vehicle without any extra cabin space.

Re functionality I think you'd find it surprising how easy the Terri is to live with day-to-day especially when you realise that it's shorter outside than the Commodore/Falcon sedans, has a great turning circle, good visibility (better than 4WD's normally get blamed for), and better than expected steering.

Re performance - that's why Ford made a Turbo version. There's no reason why a tuner can't take the Turbo Terri past 300KW - it's the same motor as the XR6T.

[Marco]

I'm sure you'll all enjoy the Captiva. My other half has an Escape, similar sized, FWD with 4WD when needed just like Captiva, 3.0 V6 so simiarly sized engine, and it does the job just fine, as I'm sure the Captiva will. Hardly inspiring though...

I don't think any SUVs are inspiring....aspirational perhaps, but certainly not inspirational.

[HSVMAN]

Ok - I will qualify my comment. There's overall more space in the cabin for annoying things like people. Being 30cm longer overall the Adventra has a much larger load area, which in my case was not required. I'm happier with the extra leg space (5cm more in the front and 6cm more in the back) and shoulder room (3cm more) plus the fact that the A pillar doesn't try to kill you like it does in the Falcon. For me at least this is a better utilisation of space. Much of the extended length of the Adventra is wasted in having a huge storage space in a >5m long vehicle without any extra cabin space.
Sorry your ruler is broke... Addy has far more leg room in front and rear also :)

[Carby]

Cheers for the tip!
I
We dont need them, we want them! Otherwise they wouldnt build them, simple, period.
BTW I've owned & driven performance cars all my life including race and track work ;)

Well like I said in my original post - I'm sure they will sell like hot cakes.

Glad you appreciate performance cars!

[russlee29]

Spades for you perhaps, but not the rest of the market it seems. Ford fans wanted it, and it's no surprise Holden fans sticking the boot in wondering why they did it at all.

I'm sure you'll all enjoy the Captiva. My other half has an Escape, similar sized, FWD with 4WD when needed just like Captiva, 3.0 V6 so simiarly sized engine, and it does the job just fine, as I'm sure the Captiva will. Hardly inspiring though...

If i wanted a boxy, high awd, then maybe i would buy a Territory or an Escape.

But an AWD which has the load space of full size wagon, aerodynamics of normal sedan/wagon, soft road ability, v8 performance yet safety of all wheel grip , 4 airbags etc is much more appealing to me. I like to think of it in the same light as the Audi AWD , not really same class as big boxy Wagons which reaaly dont have any extra space, they just look BIG. :lol:

[paulvdb]

If i wanted a boxy, high awd, then maybe i would buy a Territory or an Escape.

But an AWD which has the load space of full size wagon, aerodynamics of normal sedan/wagon, soft road ability, v8 performance yet safety of all wheel grip , 4 airbags etc is much more appealing to me. I like to think of it in the same light as the Audi AWD , not really same class as big boxy Wagons which reaaly dont have any extra space, they just look BIG. :lol:
Shame then that the Adventra doesn't look like it will survive in VE mode. The Sportswagon (if it happens) is quite likely to have less load space (like they normally do)

[matt.vzss]

Being that i am a ford salesman i had the test drive and launch day last tuesday up in the yarra ranges of vic. i must say i was a bit sceptical about how a car weighing over 2 tonnes would go as a performanece car. But WOW let me tell you these this get up and moving.

The 6sp auto is matched brilliantly to the car and you can have a lot of fun using it in the sports mode, this car will sell like hotcakes because it is practical but it is also very quick.

[chevypower]

it's a small SUV - to be more fuel friendly than a large SUV i presume

It uses a 4.0L turbo 6 - to be more fuel friendly than a V8 SUV I presume

It has a 6 spd auto - which is promoted to be fuel friendly

So why the heck do these things use 18L per 100km on average using PREMIUM

Goauto tested the 5.4L V8 F250 crew cab 4 speed auto (which weighs 3 tonnes) and got an average of 17L per 100 using regular

The 7.3L V8 TD F250 uses even less fuel than that... The Territory, compromising size and comfort for economy certainly isnt doing it's job. I do like the style of Territory's though.

[Ghia351]

it's a small SUV - to be more fuel friendly than a large SUV i presume

It uses a 4.0L turbo 6 - to be more fuel friendly than a V8 SUV I presume

It has a 6 spd auto - which is promoted to be fuel friendly

So why the heck do these things use 18L per 100km on average using PREMIUM

Goauto tested the 5.4L V8 F250 crew cab 4 speed auto (which weighs 3 tonnes) and got an average of 17L per 100 using regular

The 7.3L V8 TD F250 uses even less fuel than that... The Territory, compromising size and comfort for economy certainly isnt doing it's job. I do like the style of Territory's though.
Which article posted an average (after roadtest) versus an average off the trip computer in the middle of a drive? Do you honestly think they drove a new turbo Terry trying to achieve economy or attempting to see how fast it was? Looking at your posts on AFF you've pushed the diesel "barrow" on & on & on.....

[russlee29]

Shame then that the Adventra doesn't look like it will survive in VE mode. The Sportswagon (if it happens) is quite likely to have less load space (like they normally do)

You obviously love your Territory, thats your choice. I have different point view, however i do think that the turbo territory with 6 pd auto will certainly be a winner (wish a 6pd auto was available in adventra).

People have been sold on marketing hype with shape and high driving position. Its not my cup of tea though :D

[kayman]

I'll still stick to our V8 Landcruiser for offroad duties...

Now i just need a LS1 daily.

[Ghia351]

You obviously love your Territory, thats your choice. I have different point view, however i do think that the turbo territory with 6 pd auto will certainly be a winner (wish a 6pd auto was available in adventra).

People have been sold on marketing hype with shape and high driving position. Its not my cup of tea though :D
I can't see how you can call a high driving position for any vehicle a sales hype...surely you've sat in heavy traffic and suddenly been faced with sudden braking in front and the increased heart rate it causes, wouldn't you have preferred some warning which sitting higher can provide?

[McobraR]

dont know why peeps are baggin the territory. Yes this is a holden forum and its normal to say the adventra is better, but cmon, the territory isnt the highest selling SUV for no reason. Holden wanted to take the easy route with the adventra by modifying the wagon and calling it new, and its coming back to them. It just looked too much like a done up commodore and thats the reason why i think it didnt sell, also the terry has high seating-somethin families want, and the fact that it looks big and safe is another factor

[russlee29]

dont know why peeps are baggin the territory .

Not baggin Territory - read my posts, If territory is your cup of tea, fine, its just not mine.


Yes this is a holden forum and its normal to say the adventra is better, but cmon, the territory isnt the highest selling SUV for no reason. Holden wanted to take the easy route with the adventra by modifying the wagon and calling it new, and its coming back to them..

Not all people are after a big boxy show on wheels (read 4wd wannabies). Although adventra has not had the sales success of Territory, it appeals to people after something more like a Subaru, or an Audi etc.

Where else can you buy a sports wagon (not a Boxy people mover) with an awsome LS1 and AWD, and a load size of Commodore wagon. Its what i always wanted. Its just not what everyone else did. I did look at Territory briefly, it just did'nt fit the bill.


also the terry has high seating-somethin families want, and the fact that it looks big and safe is another factor

Exactly, it looks big and safe

[nudenut]

I can't see how you can call a high driving position for any vehicle a sales hype...surely you've sat in heavy traffic and suddenly been faced with sudden braking in front and the increased heart rate it causes, wouldn't you have preferred some warning which sitting higher can provide?
Here's the question for anyone who pushes the "high driving position is safer". Do you think you're a better than average driver? If the answer is "no" then you're probably right. If the answer is "yes", driving a 4WD probably increases your likelihood of an accident, so it's less safe.

Why? Because any visibility you gain from sitting up high is taken away from the driver behind you. You can ensure that you're paying proper attention when driving, but you can't do anything about the (potential) idiot behind you. Personally I'd rather not destroy the forward vision of someone right behind me who might have very poor anticipation and/or reaction time.

I'd be very interested to see the stats on 4WDs being rear-ended versus sedans - I'd put money on it being a lot higher for the 4WDs.

[XtRmn8]

People have been sold on marketing hype.........
Its not my cup of tea though :D

Just like the Commodore has for the past 10 years! :idea:

[Ghia351]

Here's the question for anyone who pushes the "high driving position is safer". Do you think you're a better than average driver? If the answer is "no" then you're probably right. If the answer is "yes", driving a 4WD probably increases your likelihood of an accident, so it's less safe.

Why? Because any visibility you gain from sitting up high is taken away from the driver behind you. You can ensure that you're paying proper attention when driving, but you can't do anything about the (potential) idiot behind you. Personally I'd rather not destroy the forward vision of someone right behind me who might have very poor anticipation and/or reaction time.

I'd be very interested to see the stats on 4WDs being rear-ended versus sedans - I'd put money on it being a lot higher for the 4WDs.

You can argue it the other way as well, eg. if I can see what's happening up ahead, see traffic is stopping and create a buffer and slow down gently thereby not panic stopping I eliminate the danger to someone behind as well.....which is how I drive now when behind the wheel of my VW Transporter, which trust me, blocks the vision of anyone immediately behind and some.

[sandmanls1]

kayman - hwo many cars do you guys have, Gallardo, Landcruiser, etc

Each to their own guys, if you don't like the Turbo Terrie, then don't buy one and enjoy your Adventra's...

I think it's a good compromise for a family hauler and light off road work and towing the boat, jetskis or racecar....

[McobraR]

Exactly, it looks big and safe

And thats why it sells, fords research showed that people wanted a vehicle they can feel safe in. I remember reading that the territory was the best local car in a crash, so i guess its not just looks.
In the end, i know what your trying to say. The adventra is the only SUV that offers V8 power for the price tag and offers HEAPS of room, and i guess thats somethin the terry cant compete with. Tho I think thats the reason for the turbo version, to allow it to haul more a** with ease.

[chevypower]

Which article posted an average (after roadtest) versus an average off the trip computer in the middle of a drive? Do you honestly think they drove a new turbo Terry trying to achieve economy or attempting to see how fast it was? Looking at your posts on AFF you've pushed the diesel "barrow" on & on & on.....

Get used to it dude, diesel isnt going away any time soon. So you can defend the Territory for getting 18L per 100km, cos car reviewers dont try to get economy in the Territory but they do in every other car they drive - so any comparison is not fair, right? Your right it wasnt a fair comparison, i was comparing it to a 3 tonne truck with a bigger motor and less gears, with older technology - and the truck was getting better economy

[chops]

Why? Because any visibility you gain from sitting up high is taken away from the driver behind you. You can ensure that you're paying proper attention when driving, but you can't do anything about the (potential) idiot behind you. Personally I'd rather not destroy the forward vision of someone right behind me who might have very poor anticipation and/or reaction time.

Slightly off topic, but if I was to be struck from anywhere, by any car, then from behind by a car traveling in the same direction would 100% be my preferred choice.

[Venom XR]

Get used to it dude, diesel isnt going away any time soon. So you can defend the Territory for getting 18L per 100km, cos car reviewers dont try to get economy in the Territory but they do in every other car they drive - so any comparison is not fair, right? Your right it wasnt a fair comparison, i was comparing it to a 3 tonne truck with a bigger motor and less gears, with older technology - and the truck was getting better economy

Sure, but the 250/350's cost a fortune. You could run a Territory for ages and still not reach the overall costs of owning the 250/350 (Personally, I'd love a 250 dual cab, but my old clevo powered effie does good on gas.)

In today's Cars Guide, the car with the highest running costs was a turbo diesel Landcruiser. The RWD Territory had lower runnings costs than the Kluger. Cost to purchase/depreciation/insurance are big parts of the overall equation, just not how much is costs to fuel the vehicle. Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon had a 4c per week difference overall.

Cars Guide reviewed the Turbo Terri and gave it a resounding thumbs up. They also said the fuel economy was as low as 12l/100ks with frugal highway driving.

[chevypower]

But 12L per 100 on the highway with cruise control on is not good, its pathetic, an F250 will get that too - maybe even better - my 5.7L Berlina gets 9L/100 doing that. I remember the Suburban was able to get 12L per 100 on the highway. I am saying that, when a car manufacturer releases a medium sized SUV in 2006, where it is smaller to reduce weight, has 6 gears to get better economy and a turbo 6 instead of an 8 for better economy and gets the economy of OLD 3 tonne full size V8 SUVs from America - don't you think they could have done better?

[Avalanche]

Dont forget peoples that u cant compare the turbo terri to the V8 adventra, as they are, no more. I some how dont think the v6 addy will hold its own against the turbo terri. A friend has the lx6 addy & in the city he cant get it under 21l per 100. Where as the ava has never been over 18lper100, & that was with the trailer on the back in the city. Usually get 14-15 in town 10.5-12.5 on the open road.

[Ghia351]

Get used to it dude, diesel isnt going away any time soon. So you can defend the Territory for getting 18L per 100km, cos car reviewers dont try to get economy in the Territory but they do in every other car they drive - so any comparison is not fair, right? Your right it wasnt a fair comparison, i was comparing it to a 3 tonne truck with a bigger motor and less gears, with older technology - and the truck was getting better economy
Boy.... you don't sound so tough when you post on AFF do you....

[Ghia351]

Get used to it dude, diesel isnt going away any time soon. So you can defend the Territory for getting 18L per 100km, cos car reviewers dont try to get economy in the Territory but they do in every other car they drive - so any comparison is not fair, right? Your right it wasnt a fair comparison, i was comparing it to a 3 tonne truck with a bigger motor and less gears, with older technology - and the truck was getting better economy..plus..I don't have to defend it, I'm just going to buy it....

[Dacious]

Cars Guide reviewed the Turbo Terri and gave it a resounding thumbs up. They also said the fuel economy was as low as 12l/100ks with frugal highway driving.

You're not helping your cause. Anything Gover recommends has a strike against it in my book.

I've been in a Terri AWD Ghia - the driver (who had a XT Falcon he loved before it - why he got the Terri) said it never used less than 15l/100km. Around town it hovered precisely at 20, and the day I was in it and it was stuck in traffic in summer, it was sitting on 22.

The Terri is a marketing success because it appeals to the Cro Magnon in all of us - i.e. Gronk carry bigger club. But from a purely rational point of view, like most granny-crushers it trades primary safety (stopping, accident avoidance, rollover, damage mitigation/limitation to others) for sheer hitting power. Like a Roman chariot the operators sit above the carnage but God help you if it rolls.

In my view 'fake' AWDs and those aimed primarily at urban dwellers should bear a higher insurance third party premium for their potential to injure people who don't subscribe to the 'bigger is badder' theory.

It's like Ovlovs. Anyone who indicates they want one because it's 'safe' should be forced to drive sitting on an armed landmine so it is safe. But that's just my opinion.

And yes, I subscribe to the theory that the Turbo Territory is Australia's answer to the world's champion most pointless vehicle, the Hummer. Sorry to be harsh, but there it is. The Porsce Cayenne is Germany's, the Lexus Hype-Rid is Japan's. YMMV.

[chevypower]

Ghia351, Grow up dude, this isnt a kindergarten - I post on both forums because i like Ford's AND Holdens, only people with an IQ of less than 50 think you can only like one brand of car. Go and buy it - you dont have to be so defensive when somebody points out its fuel consumption - but what is it really good for:

It's not the best as a 7 seater, it's really cramped in the 2nd and 3rd rows
It is not the best in straight line performance (my Berlina would kill it)
Its not the best in cornering (any car would beat it)
Its not good for towing (1600kg limit is pathetic)
It's crappy off-road (my old Pajero would kill it (and even that wasnt that good off road, plus you would be too scared to get it dirty)

I assume that on these forums, we are all entitled to have an express our opinion on vehicles of all kinds without getting personal, so if you want to defend the vehicle, please do so - without personal attacks

[paulvdb]

You're not helping your cause. Anything Gover recommends has a strike against it in my book.

I've been in a Terri AWD Ghia - the driver (who had a XT Falcon he loved before it - why he got the Terri) said it never used less than 15l/100km. Around town it hovered precisely at 20, and the day I was in it and it was stuck in traffic in summer, it was sitting on 22.

The Terri is a marketing success because it appeals to the Cro Magnon in all of us - i.e. Gronk carry bigger club. But from a purely rational point of view, like most granny-crushers it trades primary safety (stopping, accident avoidance, rollover, damage mitigation/limitation to others) for sheer hitting power. Like a Roman chariot the operators sit above the carnage but God help you if it rolls.

In my view 'fake' AWDs and those aimed primarily at urban dwellers should bear a higher insurance third party premium for their potential to injure people who don't subscribe to the 'bigger is badder' theory.

It's like Ovlovs. Anyone who indicates they want one because it's 'safe' should be forced to drive sitting on an armed landmine so it is safe. But that's just my opinion.

And yes, I subscribe to the theory that the Turbo Territory is Australia's answer to the world's champion most pointless vehicle, the Hummer. Sorry to be harsh, but there it is. The Porsce Cayenne is Germany's, the Lexus Hype-Rid is Japan's. YMMV.

Great to see rational, constructive and accurate comment - not!
1) My RWD Terri gets 10-11 on the freeway and 15-16 around town, which is about 0.5 worse than my 2nd car (a v6 sedan). I'm fine with that.
2) I have no need to carry a bigger club. I compared the Terri against a number of other cars including sedans and thought it was better value-for-money for what I needed. I couldn't fit in a Kluger or a Subaru (seats don't go far anough back) and it's really great for a family to use.
3) It doesn't trade safety any more than a VB-VZ Commodore. See the safety tests in which Commodore didn't exactly flatter itself.
4) Potential to injure people!! You've been listening to talk back radio. If you believe that BS then best of luck to you. Nearly all accidents in 4WDs were by people not looking where they were going - nothing to do with the vehicle's design. Rear visibility (often mentioned) is no better in any Commodore than in the Terri.
5) an Ovlov isn't safe because they don't have primary safety built into them. Every ovlov up to the most recent has been a deathtrap looking for an accident to use it's secondary safety features in. There's no comparison between ovlov and the Terri
6) the Hummer is a look-at-me machine and agree it's pointless. The Terri is for someone who wants to cart the family around but doesn't want to sacrifice a car that actually goes hard when you want it to.

[Ghia351]

Ghia351, Grow up dude, this isnt a kindergarten - I post on both forums because i like Ford's AND Holdens, only people with an IQ of less than 50 think you can only like one brand of car. Go and buy it - you dont have to be so defensive when somebody points out its fuel consumption - but what is it really good for:

It's not the best as a 7 seater, it's really cramped in the 2nd and 3rd rows
It is not the best in straight line performance (my Berlina would kill it)
Its not the best in cornering (any car would beat it)
Its not good for towing (1600kg limit is pathetic)
It's crappy off-road (my old Pajero would kill it (and even that wasnt that good off road, plus you would be too scared to get it dirty)

I assume that on these forums, we are all entitled to have an express our opinion on vehicles of all kinds without getting personal, so if you want to defend the vehicle, please do so - without personal attacks

LOL, why does talk of the Terry cause you such anguish :stick:

ps have any more safety towing comments :hide:

[HSVMAN]

LOL, why does talk of the Terry cause you such anguish :stick:
ps have any more safety towing comments :hide:

LOL I think some people get a bit carried away justifying their own driver when there's no need to really. The Terri is in a league of its own for Ford as I see it because Holden mucked up the Addy (even if they are 2 different vehicles) so it will be interesting to see how the Captiva goes as that's a different vehicle again. It will prove in the end that its not what's under the bonnet or chassis that counts for the masses but what it does for them however there will always be those who love to have the power on tap whether they need it or not :)

[chevypower]

LOL, why does talk of the Terry cause you such anguish :stick:

ps have any more safety towing comments :hide:

it doesnt, i see you dont understand the meaning of "not getting personal"
I quite like the look of the Teritory (if that makes you feel better) I have the same arguments against the Adventra too. You dont need to convince me your purchase will be a smart financial investment, I will tell you what you want to hear.
Nothing beats the Territory Turbo, especially in size, power, fuel economy, towing ability, off-road ability - I am sure yours will be off road regularly cos you wont be able to fill to drive it more than 300km per week - it's simply unstoppable

[NewV8]

If only the Monaro had a bigger boot....Then I could keep her, "This car is too small" comments at bay.
The TT is looking like a good option as she would be happy with it and I would be able to fit snow chains. She even tempts me with the edit for the TT if I trade in !

I'd do as much off roading as I do now in the Monaro :)
Just would be able to take it on the snow trips.

[Ghia351]

Chevypower you get me all wrong..and I'll keep it non-personal....like I said the Terry isn't defended by me because I'm buying one its being defended because of the incorrect comments you made.
You said that the F250's give better economy then a TT, well show me a petrol F250 that produces 245Kw and takes under 7 secs 0-100 that achieves better economy then the TT..oh that's right there isn't one.

Your first post stated the TT averages 18l/100km and it doesn't, current first reviews say 12-14l/100km, sure it gets higher but then again it was being pushed, hell my current BA wagon averages 14L/100km because it is averaging 32km/hr in complete stop-start traffic everyday.

You said: Its not the best in cornering (any car would beat it) when Wheels commented in the only recent considered scientific handling test it was rated better then a VZ Commodore.

If you want to put forward your opinions then they are naturally subjective and I'll gladly respect them, however, I think it's only fair to counter you when the facts say otherwise.

For my subjectivity, I'm buying it because I need a wagon, it offers the highest level of active and passive safety features in Australia at a price level that I consider reasonable, it will have more then enough performance to keep me happy when I feel like having some fun and it's Australian built so parts and servicing will be better then anything imported.

See, i graduated from kinder many decades ago.
Cheers

[chops]

but what is it really good for:

It's not the best as a 7 seater, it's really cramped in the 2nd and 3rd rows
It is not the best in straight line performance (my Berlina would kill it)
Its not the best in cornering (any car would beat it)
Its not good for towing (1600kg limit is pathetic)
It's crappy off-road (my old Pajero would kill it (and even that wasnt that good off road, plus you would be too scared to get it dirty)

I think it's strength lies not in the fact that it excels at any one of those attributes, but rather that it does them all adequately (for the target market).

Obviously a hard core off roader isn't going to buy one, nor is a hard core performance car enthusiast.

[steen]

LOL, why does talk of the Terry cause you such anguish

Pot-kettle-black...

[Ghia351]

Its not good for towing (1600kg limit is pathetic)

Ford have just updated their site and list the T turbo with a max. towing capacity of 2300kg.

[Ghia351]

Pot-kettle-black...
I must sound like a broken record but really all I've done is correct some facts on a vehicle I know something about. I would expect nothing less if I made a factually incorrect claim about a Holden.

[F6Mauz]

Your gonna have to take me for a spin:burnout: :evil:


And your marinara is getting cold:flip2:



..plus..I don't have to defend it, I'm just going to buy it....

[Ghia351]

Your gonna have to take me for a spin:burnout: :evil:


And your marinara is getting cold:flip2:
No probs re the drive...as to the seafood...I need a Melways....:confused:

[Dacious]

Great to see rational, constructive and accurate comment - not!
1) My RWD Terri gets 10-11 on the freeway and 15-16 around town, which is about 0.5 worse than my 2nd car (a v6 sedan). I'm fine with that.
TTs are AWD? That immediately puts consumption 10-15% over your figures. Who's going to doddle around with a Turbo, and if they are, why did they buy it?
2) I have no need to carry a bigger club. I compared the Terri against a number of other cars including sedans and thought it was better value-for-money for what I needed. I couldn't fit in a Kluger or a Subaru (seats don't go far anough back) and it's really great for a family to use.
I've sat in the second row of said Ghia - it was more cramped for hip, shoulder, leg, hearoom, with worse access than a Falcon - same with the rear load section. I couldn't lie down in it with the seats down. It'd never pass the Hugh Grant Headroom test!
3) It doesn't trade safety any more than a VB-VZ Commodore. See the safety tests in which Commodore didn't exactly flatter itself.
Primary safety - yes it does. It's bigger, heavier, less maneouvarable with higher C-of G and a longer stopping distance so it's dynamics don't match. I saw the safety summaries in which SUVs were singled out for criticism both for dynamics and injuries to non-occupants. Highest rated car for personal safety was the much smaller Forrester, second was the Astra!
4) Potential to injure people!! You've been listening to talk back radio. If you believe that BS then best of luck to you. Nearly all accidents in 4WDs were by people not looking where they were going - nothing to do with the vehicle's design. Rear visibility (often mentioned) is no better in any Commodore than in the Terri.
See above. I don't listen to talkback. My observations are my own. I'd submit they pay less attention to what they are doing, like swedish-ford drivers because they feel 'safe', and feel inclined to push the limits because they believe the BS about 'handles like a car'.
5) an Ovlov isn't safe because they don't have primary safety built into them. Every ovlov up to the most recent has been a deathtrap looking for an accident to use it's secondary safety features in. There's no comparison between ovlov and the Terri
People buy certain vehicles because they believe when they stuff up the car will save them. Terris and other big SUV/AWDs fit 100% into that category. People on this board say they hate the Kluger/Prado/Terri/Patrol economy, servicing costs and drivability, but the missus feels so safe! A lot of this is driven by fashion and herd mentatility.
6) the Hummer is a look-at-me machine and agree it's pointless. The Terri is for someone who wants to cart the family around but doesn't want to sacrifice a car that actually goes hard when you want it to.
I'd submit the Terri is a station wagon with a ruff tuff Croc Dundee fashion edge, marketed at people who want to believe one day they'll drive on Fraser Island or across Tanamai desert; and most people who don't need AWD or something that looks like it is for their 99.9% bitumen use would be better off in a large car or wagon. They would be more comfortable, just as safe in a prang taking into account rollovers and less likely to be involved in one when someone stuffs up. And they'd be better off running costs wise.

If you need a large vehicle to tow a boat through sand or seat seven, fine. But an 'offroader' that needs PULP, with 19" bling wheels and 55 profile tyres? C'mon, as Lleyton would say.

[Swordie]

Compared to what BMW and Mercedes have on offer the Territory Turbo cremes them both on price.

[chevypower]

good thing about the new 2300kg tow limit - i believe they would have lost sales on that alone,

A Territory Turbo is much cheaper than an X5, just like a Barina is much cheaper than a VW Golf- but you get what you pay for

[HSVMAN]

good thing about the new 2300kg tow limit - i believe they would have lost sales on that alone,
A Territory Turbo is much cheaper than an X5, just like a Barina is much cheaper than a VW Golf- but you get what you pay for

Bad comparisons there. You could say an AH Astra is cheaper than a Golf and arguably better for the price.
Terri isn't a budget priced vehicle (like the barina compares to others) so what Swordie said is 100% Correct. It wont feel and drive like a beemer but will do everything else and go faster... maybe :)

[nudenut]

You can argue it the other way as well, eg. if I can see what's happening up ahead, see traffic is stopping and create a buffer and slow down gently thereby not panic stopping I eliminate the danger to someone behind as well.....which is how I drive now when behind the wheel of my VW Transporter, which trust me, blocks the vision of anyone immediately behind and some.
Fair point - the trouble (for me at least) is that 90% of 4WD/van drivers over here don't seem to do that, and for the 10% that do, there's always some snapperhead wanting to jump into the gap at the last second, so there ends up being a rapid brake anyway. Maybe it's just cos I'm in Perth. :doh: