Sgi Lpg

[Nemisis]

Hey Guys,
I have recently bought a VX2 SS M6 with 71k on the clock. I have been reading with interest on the differing view points of LPG. I have also looked at the Victorian Auto Gas web site and it appears their sequential gas injection is quite good (Could well be marketing). I have also spoken to Premier Auto Centre in Mt Druitt which is a distributor for VAGS.

1) I just wanted to know if this system is any good (or if it is bad).

2) What the tuning capacity of it is (MAF or MAFLESS tune)

3) Whether Premier Auto Centre are good at what they do and their price of nearly $4000 is reasonable for such a system.

I have attempted to PM KWFRASER (as I know he is well regarded in this area) however have only done one post and will be unable to PM until I have 10.

Thanks in advance
Karl

[V8R]

Karl,
Kezz doesnt frequesnt the forums often, but the figure youre looking at is on the money for that SGI system. Tuning (like anything) is the biggest thing, with some places better than others. I'll see if i can get him on here for a comment, seeing as i see him at work every day :)

[Nemisis]

Thanks V8R, I sure do appreciate it.

[commodoreking]

Here's another LPG supplier...IMPCO Fuel Systems Pty Ltd...they do O.E.M. certified and aftermarket BRC sequential electronic gas injection systems...refer website link below:
http://www.impco.com.au/

[Nemisis]

Apart from Kezz, has anyone had any experience with these products. $4000 is a lot of money and I dont want it to stuff what is a great car.

Thanks
Karl

[Swordie]

Fitting SGI to a BA 6 cylinder is $3500, an LS1 having two extra cylinders would be about right at $4000 for the extra gas injectors.

A non-direct injection system is around $2,500 for a BA 6 cylinder. Direct injection is latest LPG technology, it provides better fuel efficiency and potentially more power compared to the old gas system.

[V8R]

Karl,
Kez is about to head off to mallala for truck racing.
After driving his VZ crewman fitted with the system (and tuned by us amateurs!), im pretty happy with it, as is he.. goes like a stocker (which it is), and returns pretty damn good economy for how it gets driven. Last trip was 470km open road (a bit of "high speed load testing" in there as well ;) ) and plenty of tootling around town, returned 13.1/100 at the bowser.
Will try and get him onto the pc for a reply, hes pretty busy fitting up kits tho

[kwfraser]

4000 is the going rate for most v8 installs, so it just a mater of doing the bizz with somebody who knows there way around the tuning side of it, not so critical on a vx but dam critical on a vz (check engine light disco thingy) so in saying that tartarini have just released a new software package which does some nice things, i.e back to petrol at idle, cuts back to petrol at determind rpm and load, and a few more things but i must stress these are options not requirments. gas power in newcastle have a nice system which i will be testing next week, first thing i liked was the fact it only uses one convertor instead of 2 looks neater. sorry for the spelling but i failed inglish,

contacts:
MED Autogas
0297263000

Gas Power
02 49566041

i am looking for a gen 3 to fit a gas power system to so if some one wants to come to mudgee for 3 days then ring me and we can sort out a little bit better price,

westside garage & autogas
0427141484.

thanks and i hope this has been helpfull cause i am not the master just the fiddler and it works

[xshore]

Here's another LPG supplier...IMPCO Fuel Systems Pty Ltd...they do O.E.M. certified and aftermarket BRC sequential electronic gas injection systems...refer website link below:
http://www.impco.com.au/

my falcon had an impco system, backfired a lot

[V8R]

impcos old systems were shitty tech.. havent seen any of the new stuff yet

[Nemisis]

Thanks guys for all the advice. Can anyone tell me what system is best. Each one drowns you in propaganda and its hard to work out which one is most suitable. I may also consider a CAPA Supercharger in the future and wonder if this could be possible or would gas supply be an issue?

Thanks
Karl

[V8R]

if youre keen enough, maybe get hold of bradkaz, part of the development team of the Profire injection system.. might require going full lpg tho

[Steve Fowler]

I hane a gen 3 currently on gas. It has not effected how well it goes on fuel but at hte moment it starts missing after 3500 revs. Apparently a computer problem. Still waiting to have fixed

[Swordie]

As someone else has mentioned I would try track down someone who knows how to tune a car for gas. Factor in the cost of the conversion and money to get a good tuner.

[V8R]

what system do you have, steve?

[Nemisis]

Without going down the Supercharger route. Can you still do mafless tunes/otrcai etc with the SGI? Will a mild steel exhaust last with LPG?

Thanks
Karl

[Dr White]

4000 is the going rate for most v8 installs, so it just a mater of doing the bizz with somebody who knows there way around the tuning side of it, not so critical on a vx but dam critical on a vz (check engine light disco thingy) so in saying that tartarini have just released a new software package which does some nice things, i.e back to petrol at idle, cuts back to petrol at determind rpm and load, and a few more things but i must stress these are options not requirments. gas power in newcastle have a nice system which i will be testing next week, first thing i liked was the fact it only uses one convertor instead of 2 looks neater. sorry for the spelling but i failed inglish,

contacts:
MED Autogas
0297263000

Gas Power
02 49566041

i am looking for a gen 3 to fit a gas power system to so if some one wants to come to mudgee for 3 days then ring me and we can sort out a little bit better price,

westside garage & autogas
0427141484.

thanks and i hope this has been helpfull cause i am not the master just the fiddler and it works

KWFRASER,

I've just bought a VU SS and am keen for the gas conversion. I spend half my time in Bathurst and half in Sydney - a couple of days in Mudgee is an option. Please let me know if you're still looking for a "guinea pig" - please give me a call - I'll be in Bathurst this week.

Tim
0428 556 415

[German Statesman]

Impco have bought a SGI manufacturer called BRC, and with Impco's OEM experience, that's who I'd be going with.

Look for someone that's done an install on a Gen 3 - they're not an engine to experiment/fiddle with, and you don't want to be a guinea pig for someone who hasn't done one before.

Take your time - do a search on LPG in the archive, & do your homework.

Cheers

JOHN

[Dr White]

Thankyou John for curbing my youthful enthusiasm and reminding me to look before I leap. Alas, I've spent many hours on the internet in the last week and have been frustrated by the lack of hard facts and useful information regarding the available injeciton systems and the pros and cons of each.

At present, I'm booked-in for the installation of an OMVL system early next year at Riverstone. In the meantime though I'm keeping my eye out for any alternatives that are obviously better than the rest. I must indeed put some time into the IMPCO derivative you mention - in theory at least an IMPCO system should be the pick of them.

In a perfect world, I'd go for something like the "Stealth GTI" or whatever it's called but details are sketchy and fitting a Beta-system like that may cause more headaches than it's worth.

One of my main issues is trying to find a kit/installer combination that is willing to allow me to customise the installation to a certain extent. My PhD was about NG injection into diesels, so I have a few ideas that I'd like to incorporate into the system. My reasoning behind investigating the Mudgee option was that an installer "new" to the injection systems might be more accommodating of my input without branding me a smart-bottom from the start. Plus things tend to be a little more flexible outside of the big cities....

Anyhow, if anyone out there has any further suggestions for an elegant, modern LPG set-up then please share your thoughts!

Thanks,
Tim.

[German Statesman]

Thankyou John for curbing my youthful enthusiasm and reminding me to look before I leap. Alas, I've spent many hours on the internet in the last week and have been frustrated by the lack of hard facts and useful information regarding the available injeciton systems and the pros and cons of each.

At present, I'm booked-in for the installation of an OMVL system early next year at Riverstone. In the meantime though I'm keeping my eye out for any alternatives that are obviously better than the rest. I must indeed put some time into the IMPCO derivative you mention - in theory at least an IMPCO system should be the pick of them.

In a perfect world, I'd go for something like the "Stealth GTI" or whatever it's called but details are sketchy and fitting a Beta-system like that may cause more headaches than it's worth.

One of my main issues is trying to find a kit/installer combination that is willing to allow me to customise the installation to a certain extent. My PhD was about NG injection into diesels, so I have a few ideas that I'd like to incorporate into the system. My reasoning behind investigating the Mudgee option was that an installer "new" to the injection systems might be more accommodating of my input without branding me a smart-bottom from the start. Plus things tend to be a little more flexible outside of the big cities....

Anyhow, if anyone out there has any further suggestions for an elegant, modern LPG set-up then please share your thoughts!

Thanks,
Tim.

Sorry to downpour on your parade - don't touch OMVL at all, and cancel your booking.

There are two types of old style LPG equipment - positive pressure and negative pressure. There are pros & cons of both, but negative pressure far outweighs positive pressure in large displacement engines.

A positive pressure system, starts flowing LPG from the moment the ignition system activates - this is great because the engine starts easier on LPG, and there is fuel in the combustion chamber relatively quickly. The LPG then flows through a stepper motor which is like a plug that forcibly reduces the flow of LPG in the hose to the intake hose-mounted ring mixer by winding in and out in 'steps", and is wide open at 3000rpm. From that we come to this conclusion - if the stepper motor is wide open at 3000rpm, what is the horsepower capacity of the convertor/regulator, and will it supply the engine right up to its theoritcal redline of 6000rpm? Hey - no-one goes above 3000rpm driving in normal situation, so who gives a rats, right????

The truth? The positive pressure importers don't know what their convertors are rated at. They will tell you the convertor has been used on Ford 460s & Chev 454s, but to what RPM???? You could put a 100hp-rated convertor on a big block and it will start it and run to to a certain degree before the engine outstrips the capacity of the convertor - its like putting too small a fuel pump on an engine and starvation occurs which in LPG is fatal because it leans out and overheats engines and burns valves. Positive pressure systems work in engines up to 4 litres capacity OK - you would be gambling with your engine's health if you put them on a bigger application....

Negative pressure (i.e. Impco) relies on manifold/cranking vacuum to work, and therefore takes a little longer to start (a smart Impco installer that knows his gear can overcome this). Impco equipment comes with a horsepower rating and CFM capacity - in other words you match the equipment to the engine's operating conditions. If you sit on 5500rpm all day every day, there's a range of mixers and convertors to match up to, and you'll know from the run down to the shop to a traffic light drag against an XR8, the LPG fuel system is matched to the engine & its operating parameters.

If it sounds like I'm flying the flag for Impco I'm not - wait until an SGI system is available for your vehicle. If you backfire that Gen 3 the plastic inlet manifold may blow to smithereens...

It may be worth your while talking to Scott Tritton at Metropolitan Autogas here in Bris Vegas - 07-3256-0333. Not only is he an Impco distributor and long-time installer (17yrs fitting LPG), he is also heavily involved in diesel alternative fuel stuff including a Cummins 8.3CTA that's been converted to spark ignition and runs exclusively on LPG. He has also converted a couple of Gen 3s in the past and has years of Holden experience.


Hope that's been some help - PM me if you need any more.

Cheers

JOHN

[bennzy]

i have got fitted the holden impco 5.7L gas injection system to my car it runs really well the 5.7L impco system was designed more to be fitted to the vy and up, but thankfully with out much drama i was able to get it fitted to my vx.

i am able to show pictures of how the system is fitted. ive had it for about 3 months now roughly and am really enjoying it. it pretty much does everything for you.

it costed me $4400 to have the conversion done. i did have one problem with it after picking it up but was resolved asap. it was a wiring problem with the gauge or something like that to cause it to not change from petrol to gas properly.

i got 12.4 per 100km's and got 520km's roughly out of a tank with highway driving pretty much which i was pretty happy with.

[Cav]

I gather all thse systems mentioned are dual fuel.

Is there a problem going straight gas?

[Dr White]

HOLDON - yeah, as far as I know all of the SGI/SVI systems are dual-fuel. Depending on who you talk to, the Gen3 wants (needs?) to start on petrol. Surely though a clever man could make his system such that straight gas would be okay. Yet genuinely clever men are hard to find.

BENNZY - I've looked at a few of your posts with interest over the last few weeks. I just noticed that in your most recent post in the "Ls1 Gas Injection" forum you've said that your Impco one goes to petrol above 4,500rpm? So it seems as though even the Impco has a flow-limit of sorts. But you seem happy with the rest of it which is good news.

GERMAN STATESMAN (I've just realised what that refers to!) - The OMVL one I'm looking at is a sequential injection system - can only assume that you were referring to mixer types in your last post? Or just that OMVL is crap in general? I've certainly heard that from others and am treating the one I'm presently looking at with suspicion.

Disappointing to hear that Bennzy's Impco one (assuming it's BRC) switches to petrol at high revs....I was hoping the Impco one would prove to be the panacea. Anyway, there now seems to be three mainstream options for gas injection - Impco/BRC, Tartatini (sp?) and OMVL. As far as I can tell, all three seem to originate in Italy. Interesting. I haven't yet given the Riverstone man a deposit - I'll be going to see him on Thursday. I'll see if he can objectively compare these three systems before giving him my money. On the phone he sounds a bit more open-minded than others I've spoken with so if nothing else I'll hopefully learn something useful. What I'm really looking for in a system is one that I can easily hack-in to with a laptop to fix mixtures. I've been spoilt by running a MoTeC on my VL Turbo for the last six years.

[German Statesman]

Give Scott @ Metro Autogas a call - I mentioned this post to him today, and he's happy to chat to you.

The old dogs in the LPG industry are very wary of any LPG equipment that is Italian - they make great shoes & some great cars, but the LPG equipment is good for aquarium decoration only...:)

Good to see you're going carefully and weighing up your options.

Cheers

JOHN

[bennzy]

i believe it changes to petrol at that rpm because it thinks the car is going hard and since its a petrol built engine petrol does give that better push in th engine to go, but yeah no issues with it, great system, well worth the money to spend and have it installed

[geniii225]

Hi guys
I been reading your threads about SGI and i would like to let you know about my experiences with LPG.
I currently run a VX GEN3 manual with a TARTARINI SGI system. I had it installed about a year ago and it runs faultlessly. The only issue i had early on with it was tryin to work out the spark plug gaps to try to eliminate a slight missing problem that would occur under load at low RPM. I get around 11.5 - 12.5 L/100kms on the highway with a full boot and passengers with A/C on and around 14.5 - 15 in the city.
Overall, i am very happy with the system.
As for the comments regarding OMVL, let me just say that my prevoius car that my brother still drives has run an OMVL dual fuel system since new (1993) and has clocked up almost 500,000 kms. During this time the heads have only been rebuilt once and apart form routine maintenance and servicng the system has been trouble free. It is critical to replace plugs and leads regularly though to minimise the risk of backfire.
I have run LPG cars since 1989 and have clocked up more that 1,000,000kms, and apart from regular maintence the only LPG specific maintence required is more frequent spark plug lead changes, except for the Prado. The cars include a 2 litre Camira ( I can hear the laughter from here), and a 4 litre Falcon Ute with an IMPCO system a V6 Prado (not sure of the system from memory), the VR 3.8 and the VX. The Prado still has the original leads after 140,000kms. The Toyota dealer tried to tell me that i need to get the valve clearances checked every 40,000k's instead of the scheduled 80,000k's. I didn't get it checked until 90,000kms and the dealer was shocked to find that he did not have to make any adjustment at all.
All in all i would have no hesitation recommending a dual fuel system for any car as long as there is a recognised kit available.

[V8R]

funnily enough, after doing some research (ie: picking apart both systems) the OMVL and Tartarini systems are based off the exact same thing.. the omvl dream system is considered a bit more advanced and a heap easier to setup and tune.. after seeing the trials and tribulations, personally id go OMVL dream. dont get me wrong, the t'rini is damn good, just the omvl is easier to get the same results out of..
for mixer style kits, id recommend the airod gear, is very good stuff. works and is easy to setup and reliable.

the t'rini setup i drive occasionaly (kwfraser's crewman, not on here very regular, oztrack knows the vehicle) runs hard and clean to 6k on gas, no need for petrol switch over :)

[German Statesman]

Hi guys
I been reading your threads about SGI and i would like to let you know about my experiences with LPG.
I currently run a VX GEN3 manual with a TARTARINI SGI system. I had it installed about a year ago and it runs faultlessly. The only issue i had early on with it was tryin to work out the spark plug gaps to try to eliminate a slight missing problem that would occur under load at low RPM. I get around 11.5 - 12.5 L/100kms on the highway with a full boot and passengers with A/C on and around 14.5 - 15 in the city.
Overall, i am very happy with the system.
As for the comments regarding OMVL, let me just say that my prevoius car that my brother still drives has run an OMVL dual fuel system since new (1993) and has clocked up almost 500,000 kms. During this time the heads have only been rebuilt once and apart form routine maintenance and servicng the system has been trouble free. It is critical to replace plugs and leads regularly though to minimise the risk of backfire.
I have run LPG cars since 1989 and have clocked up more that 1,000,000kms, and apart from regular maintence the only LPG specific maintence required is more frequent spark plug lead changes, except for the Prado. The cars include a 2 litre Camira ( I can hear the laughter from here), and a 4 litre Falcon Ute with an IMPCO system a V6 Prado (not sure of the system from memory), the VR 3.8 and the VX. The Prado still has the original leads after 140,000kms. The Toyota dealer tried to tell me that i need to get the valve clearances checked every 40,000k's instead of the scheduled 80,000k's. I didn't get it checked until 90,000kms and the dealer was shocked to find that he did not have to make any adjustment at all.
All in all i would have no hesitation recommending a dual fuel system for any car as long as there is a recognised kit available.

Good to hear you've had a great run - LPG cetainly puts a smile on your face when it runs well. If I could get LPG in all the places where I work (western QLD/NSW) I'd hand back the diesel Hilux I have and get a dual fuel F truck.

You had a lucky run with your plug leads and valve clearances - as much as I hate to say it, your Toyota dealer was doing the right thing by you. There are good plug leads and bad ones and checking them from 80K onwards takes into account the bad ones. Your valve clearances were probably OK because the gas system was in good tune - wear is accelerated in engines that run lean which is usually what happens when they aren't tuned.

Long term, some of the European LPG systems don't last the distance - we were replacing the convertors in the Ford Tickford option as early as 80K, and most positive pressure systems need a cleanout around this mileage. In the Impco systems, you replace one or two diaphragms and thats the maintenance that's required usually. I too have seen big mileages - a wheelchair Jakab VP cab up here did 590,000kms on the same Impco convertor but you'll always get a freak occasional situation like this.

Cheers

JOHN

[geniii225]

Hi John

You are right about the valve clearances. I only ran it out to 90,000k's due to my own laziness to organise it to get done. I can tell you i was sweating a bit when i went to pick up the car not knowing how much the job was going to cost. I now get it checked every 40,000k's, with the next check due soon.
Also when i run the cars on petrol i only use OPTIMAX or BP Ultimte as well as running a FlashLube system on both the Prado and GEN3. These are the only cars i've used a flashlube system on. Perhaps its a combination of this as well as a good tune that helps to maintain the valve system.

[Dr White]

Thankyou all for the extra input.

John, I spoke with Scott in BrisVegas this morning. A very worthwhile call. For the Commodore utes he uses the same APA tanks as the factory V6 mixer systems, ie. an APA 95L mounted behind the seat. He also made the point that the BRC uses real "injectors" rather than plain solenoid valves. I couldn't get him to comment further on specific issues with the OMVL systems except that he "wouldn't touch them".

V8R - yeah, I wondered how much difference there could be in componentry all coming from the same part of the world. Impco has apparently owned BRC for a while now so some of their (presumedly) Californian-designed componentry may by now have found its way into the BRC kits.

Thanks again everyone, I can now an least make a somewhat "informed" decision now by the end of the week, irrespective of whether it comes down to a coin toss or not....

PS. Scott from Metrogas says that the BRC system uses a combination of TPS and MAP for the load-sensing.

PS. Scott from Metrogas says that the BRC system uses a combination of TPS and MAP for the load-sensing.

[German Statesman]

Yep - Throttle Positioning Switch to advise the computer how open the throttle is, and a secondary input from the manifold air pressure sensor so the temp and density of the incoming air can have the right amount of gas injected to it. Highly accurate way of getting the stochiometric ratio for combustion right, and why not use those EFI system components for gas as well as petrol??

From what I understand the BRC system was an up-and-going concern and the best of the injected systems on the market - Impco bought in, refined it with OEM-quality componentry and there you go.

A conversation with Scott is always rewarding - his shop is an absolute disaster area with crap and mess everywhere, but he's always busy and his knowledge goes back many years. From blown big blocks in ski boats to OEM stuff to 1100km range economy systems, he's the ducks guts.

Good to see you're on the right track.

Cheers

JOHN

[John L]

Sorry to downpour on your parade - don't touch OMVL at all, and cancel your booking.

There are two types of old style LPG equipment - positive pressure and negative pressure. There are pros & cons of both, but negative pressure far outweighs positive pressure in large displacement engines.

A positive pressure system, starts flowing LPG from the moment the ignition system activates - this is great because the engine starts easier on LPG, and there is fuel in the combustion chamber relatively quickly. The LPG then flows through a stepper motor which is like a plug that forcibly reduces the flow of LPG in the hose to the intake hose-mounted ring mixer by winding in and out in 'steps", and is wide open at 3000rpm. From that we come to this conclusion - if the stepper motor is wide open at 3000rpm, what is the horsepower capacity of the convertor/regulator, and will it supply the engine right up to its theoritcal redline of 6000rpm? Hey - no-one goes above 3000rpm driving in normal situation, so who gives a rats, right????

The truth? The positive pressure importers don't know what their convertors are rated at. They will tell you the convertor has been used on Ford 460s & Chev 454s, but to what RPM???? You could put a 100hp-rated convertor on a big block and it will start it and run to to a certain degree before the engine outstrips the capacity of the convertor - its like putting too small a fuel pump on an engine and starvation occurs which in LPG is fatal because it leans out and overheats engines and burns valves. Positive pressure systems work in engines up to 4 litres capacity OK - you would be gambling with your engine's health if you put them on a bigger application....

Negative pressure (i.e. Impco) relies on manifold/cranking vacuum to work, and therefore takes a little longer to start (a smart Impco installer that knows his gear can overcome this). Impco equipment comes with a horsepower rating and CFM capacity - in other words you match the equipment to the engine's operating conditions. If you sit on 5500rpm all day every day, there's a range of mixers and convertors to match up to, and you'll know from the run down to the shop to a traffic light drag against an XR8, the LPG fuel system is matched to the engine & its operating parameters.

If it sounds like I'm flying the flag for Impco I'm not - wait until an SGI system is available for your vehicle. If you backfire that Gen 3 the plastic inlet manifold may blow to smithereens...

It may be worth your while talking to Scott Tritton at Metropolitan Autogas here in Bris Vegas - 07-3256-0333. Not only is he an Impco distributor and long-time installer (17yrs fitting LPG), he is also heavily involved in diesel alternative fuel stuff including a Cummins 8.3CTA that's been converted to spark ignition and runs exclusively on LPG. He has also converted a couple of Gen 3s in the past and has years of Holden experience.


Hope that's been some help - PM me if you need any more.

Cheers

JOHN


John

You are talking Carby type LPG installations on large capacity engines and I agree IMPCO has reigned supreme. However when talking VAPOUR INJECTION you are totally wrong.
I have tuned gen111's on LPG in standard trim on LPG and using the highest rated converter under WOT they do not run out of gas after saying that when custom tuning is applied they will run out and automatically switch to petrol (and may I note seamlessly) I now have software to modify the LPG delivery and will be testing to see if with a custom tune and raised vapour pressure, and LPG delivery maps changed to maintain operation on petrol.

An example on a Rodeo V6 Impco will run out of fuel and change to petrol on the same vehicle with OMVL will not run out of LPG and change to petrol a practical indication OMVL will out flow impco.

I have just completed a supercharged standard Holden 5 litre runing 5 PSI using OMVL and it does not run out of LPG. OMVL currently has the best software control on their tuning tool compared to others.

If for what ever reason you want to maintain LPG operation at WOT the you use dual converters.



John L
VTA


Without going down the Supercharger route. Can you still do mafless tunes/otrcai etc with the SGI? Will a mild steel exhaust last with LPG?

Thanks
Karl

Karl

Not a problem!!!!

John L

VTA

[mido2k]

I have mentioned in previous Gas threads, http://gas-injection.com.au/
Bill has been playing in gas for as long as i can remember, and has done many great things for LPG in Australia... eg He is the man that bought IMPCO gas systems into Australia.. Also he started the sydney workshop The Gas Man and then sold it to concentrate on his gas injection systems.

http://gas-injection.com.au/images/Image3.jpg

[John L]

funnily enough, after doing some research (ie: picking apart both systems) the OMVL and Tartarini systems are based off the exact same thing.. the omvl dream system is considered a bit more advanced and a heap easier to setup and tune.. after seeing the trials and tribulations, personally id go OMVL dream. dont get me wrong, the t'rini is damn good, just the omvl is easier to get the same results out of..
for mixer style kits, id recommend the airod gear, is very good stuff. works and is easy to setup and reliable.

the t'rini setup i drive occasionaly (kwfraser's crewman, not on here very regular, oztrack knows the vehicle) runs hard and clean to 6k on gas, no need for petrol switch over :)

OMVL software is the only one that has AUTOCALIBRATE in it's software hold throttle between 2500rpm and 3500 rpm the LPG computer will take controll switch it automatically between petrol and lpg track the petrol injector opening time and modify the lpg delivery accordingly you can then fine tune fro there.

John L
VTA


i believe it changes to petrol at that rpm because it thinks the car is going hard and since its a petrol built engine petrol does give that better push in th engine to go, but yeah no issues with it, great system, well worth the money to spend and have it installed

Its because the converter can not keep up with LPG demand.

John L
VTA


I have mentioned in previous Gas threads, http://gas-injection.com.au/
Bill has been playing in gas for as long as i can remember, and has done many great things for LPG in Australia... eg He is the man that bought IMPCO gas systems into Australia.. Also he started the sydney workshop The Gas Man and then sold it to concentrate on his gas injection systems.

http://gas-injection.com.au/images/Image3.jpg

Straight Gas ONLY!!!!
John L
VTA

[mido2k]

Straight Gas ONLY!!!!
John L
VTA

Yes it is..... Personally if i was going down the gas path, it would be all or nothing, thats just me though....

[John L]

Yep - Throttle Positioning Switch to advise the computer how open the throttle is, and a secondary input from the manifold air pressure sensor so the temp and density of the incoming air can have the right amount of gas injected to it. Highly accurate way of getting the stochiometric ratio for combustion right, and why not use those EFI system components for gas as well as petrol??


With OMVL stochiometric ratio is controlled by the cars petrol computer using all the benefits of the factory computer and sensors. The LPG computer effectively tracks the the petrol injector opening time and is modified by the LPG computer for the LPG injectors with the petrol computer targeting (from the oxygen sensor) stochiometric in closed loop through the LTFT (long term fuel trims) which changes the petrol injetor opening time which is then duplicated by the LPG computer again retaining the accuracy of the manufactures computer.

John L
VTA

[V8R]

agree with all youve written john l, in my experience the OMVL Dream system is the ducks guts when it comes to ease of fit and tuning. tho the t'rini manual carburation page looks to be more feature laden, its a PITFA to setup at times. definetly recommend the OMVL Dream system.
that autotune will look after the vast majority of vehicles, with only a couple needing a slight tickle to be 100%.. and no switching to petrol! (thats just cheating :p )

[Dr White]

This morning I had a yarn with Bill Campbell of "Stealth GTi"/The New Inventors fame. If you're prepared to go straight-gas, there's really nothing else out there to compare with this system. It's genuinely "engineered". It's a great tragedy that he can't get backing to get the design to a commercial stage. So alas, it'll have to be another system for me this time around. Seriously, if anyone out there knows of any millionaires who'd like to do their bit for advancing Australia, steer them Bill's way.

This afternoon I went to see Michael at Riverstone LP Gas Centre. I had a really good look at the OMVL "Dream XXI" kit. With regard to the electronic control, it's probably best-described as an "interceptor" system. John L summed it up well. From what I can gather, the gas/OMVL computer uses the signal that the petrol/OEM computer sends to the petrol injectors as its primary load reference. Using that petrol injector pulse-width as a basis, the gas computer uses its map (adjustable - in the right hands) to set a pulse-width for the gas solenoids. During operation, the OEM computer uses its standard lambda sensors to sniff the exhaust. It will then trim the signal it sends to the petrol injectors. The gas computer, which is monitoring this petrol injector signal, then knows whether the petrol computer thinks the mixture is rich or lean. Then the gas computer can trim the signal it sends to its own injectors.

On the hardware side, the converter looks to be a decent size and the "injector" block looks simple yet functional. The whole thing will be very, very neat when fitted. If the gas injectors/valves should ever fail, they will be easy to remove and replace.

Obviously I haven't yet had this system fitted so I comment on its performance. Whilst I've no previous experience with LPG systems, I have in the past worked as a design engineer on things including automatic transmissions and common-rail diesel injectors. The OMVL Dream is elegantly simple. A further benefit of its cunning design is, I expect and as John L has said above, that MAFless or whatever other type of tuning should represent no problem whatsoever. So I reckon V8R could be correct in describing it as the duck's guts.

I still haven't had a look at the Impco/BRC system first-hand. Maybe it's as cunning as the OMVL one. And maybe it does have "better injectors". But in a gas context, what does that really mean? The injector doesn't need to atomise a spray - all it needs to do its start and stop the gas flow. Durability is my only concern with regard to the gas "injector". In fact let's not call them injectors - "valves" is probably a more accurate name for them.

Anyway, today I thought that I'd spent enough time intellectually-masturbating over the last few weeks and decided to bite the bullet and put my deposit down for the OMVL at Riverstone. Michael there far exceeded my expectations insofar as being able to explain the system and instil in me confidence that he knows his stuff. I unreservedly recommend a talk with Michael (02 9627 4358) if you're half-way serious about going to dual-fuel with a Gen3. But please don't waste his time - I don't want my booking to be pushed-back too far!

[Nemisis]

Dr White, How long are you having to wait for this system to be installed?
.
Regards
Karl

[Dr White]

Hi Karl,

The first estimate was "two to three months", so realistically I'm hoping it'll be done by February. The LPG industry is pretty busy at the moment but I think if you have the right approach you'll be able to be squeezed-in before the generic "middle of next year" response that I've gotten from a few installers. I reckon too that most installers' margins would be higher on the SGI systems rather than the garden-variety $2000 old-school ones so most should be reasonably keen to do the big-money jobs.

A rumour I heard is that the Impco/BRC converters are rated only to about 130kW - which would explain the Rodeo and Bennzy's car switching to petrol at higher revs. The OMVL converter is *supposedly* rated to 230kW. Anyone with experience of the old-school OMVL systems will tell you that's a load of old bollocks - OMVL apparently made very low-flowing converters. Maybe they've got their act together with the converters for the new SGI systems? Time will tell I suppose....

Tim

[Nemisis]

Thanks Mate, I appreciate your help and enquiries.
.
Regards
Karl

[CHEV57]

Just got my $2000 grant back today. Only took 4 days after I lodged the forms at Medicare. The car? Well its running perfectly and the economy is great. Im getting over 400ks to a full tank of gas, and that's driving it hard. I usually hover around the 15-16L/100ks. Still not bad for LPG I think.

My car doesn't switch to petrol under load. I can rev it out to over 4500rpm and it still feels very solid running on gas.

[johnnyk]

Has anyone had any experience with putting a V8 Monaro on duel fuel?

I'm looking at buying an 02 or 03 model and would like to put it on LPG.

Thanks,

John

[andlis]

Hi Guys,

Follow this link there has been a lot of discussion regarding the jtg liquid injection from australian gas warehouse, in my opinion i would prefer to go liquid than vapour injection good luck.

Andrew

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=96418&highlight=lpg