LS1 on Full gas?

[legalis]

I am interested in putting my VX Clubsport onto gas (either dual fuel or Full). Can you convert the car to full gas? Money is not a huge issue (with in reason). Will having gas affect the performance mods i can do ie Cam, mafless tune etc and will it affect the performance of the car? I have always been told having the car converted to full gas is the best option, but can find any info about that

[karter42]

The search button is your freind.
Have a look here. http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=58454

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=58382

[legalis]

Umm, sorry mate, I have already looked at these threads. Has no info relevant to me as no one is very specifically answering the questions i have pose here :) . Someone mentions full gas....thats it. No one says where mods can me done, or wether performance is reduced. So i will keep this thread open. Also, im in WA so contacting Eastern state companies wont help me :(

[pah]

Hi Legalis,

Have you checked out this crowd?

http://www.parnell.com.au/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=26

Last time I contacted them, I thought they said that their system was limited to power outputs below those of an LS1. Their web site states that their systems accomodate V8's up to 6L so they may be worth contacting. Here's a quote:

The Parnell VSI system is compatible for small and large vehicles - meaning that vehicles with engine capacities of 700cc to 6.0 litres operate with the one pressure reducer!

I doubt that I'd go for a system that stuffs the CAI full of gas carby. This Parnell system seems to use gas fuel injectors.

If you contact them and they're looking after LS1 owners, let's know.

There's also a crowd known as GTi (Gas Injection Technologies) Stealth Injection System. I'm not sure if they've got their gear on the market yet. This is their web address:

http://www.gas-injection.com/

And they appeared on the ABC Inventors program it would seem:

http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1345083.htm






PAH


PAH

[ReMiX]

Gas Research have done afew very quick turbo (mainly Falcon's) cars and I know they did kits for the 5L's.. They also used to do custom grind cams for straight LPG.. It would pay to check with them whats on offer for the LS1's.

:)

[V8R]

have a look at the profire gear for full gas.. the injectors they have can replace your fuel injectors directly, and flow an arseload of gas. someone with a bit of time money and nouce should be able to replace the injectors and fully tune the stock LS1 computer for gas.. something we've been thinking about, but dont have the resources to do on one of our own cars :(

http://profire.com.au/

[legalis]

thanx mate, but the profire stuff is only in testing phase

[V8R]

thats the whole system, mainly the ecu.. no need for the ecu in an ls1 if youre looking at full gas, just gas gear (tank forward).

[2inch]

I believe you need to change the inlet manifold to an alloy one, apparently the standard composite one is not compatible with LPG. It can be done as there is a Hothouse green VY SS taxi running LPG in Perth.
Cheers Justin.

[OzJavelin]

I believe you need to change the inlet manifold to an alloy one, apparently the standard composite one is not compatible with LPG. It can be done as there is a Hothouse green VY SS taxi running LPG in Perth.
Cheers Justin.
If you go for SVI/SGI-type system I don't think you need too 'cos the "fuel" is inserted into the airstream at the injector like a petrol system. The inlet manifold only needs to direct air, not an air/fuel mix ... ??

[lowhsv]

i still dont know why any one would bother!!!! IMO i dont see the point
1. you risk your motor and parts.
2. cost with putting it on
3. loss of resale value would be huge.
4. loss power
5. restricted in modifcations
6. if money is not a huge issue whats wrong PULP
i know i wouldnt be doing it, if it was a factory gas car and bought from new no probs, or fitting it to and old school motor. but an ls1!!!!!! why ruin a brillant HSV

[planetdavo]

Some good points are raised by lowhsv. If you are considering it PURELY as a panic response to the price of petrol, it takes a lot of km's to get the conversion costs back. Do you do a LOT of km's if that's the only reason?
Just for peoples interest, a few weeks ago the Herald Suns "Cars Guide" had someone enquiring about doing an LPG conversion on a 0.8 ltr Daewoo Matiz!!!!!
Amazing.........

[V8R]

1. you risk your motor and parts. - what risk? what parts?
2. cost with putting it on - the cost is roughly 4k fitted and tuned
3. loss of resale value would be huge. - not proven, in this day and age i wouldnt be surprised it it increases a little
4. loss power - not on a properly sized and tuned system, in fact there are slight gains to be had
5. restricted in modifcations - see above
6. if money is not a huge issue whats wrong PULP - less cost of the day to day running = more money for mods / more toys :)

ozjavelin, you are correct. an ls1 is unsuitable for mixer style due to the plastic intake, injected is fine.

[xshore]

LPG yeah I like the sound of it but $4000!!! that's a heap of dough, I do heaps of km's but doubt I would still see a return on conversion, stuff waiting 3+ years before I begin to get my money back on it, I won't even have the car by then.

[planetdavo]

1. you risk your motor and parts. - what risk? what parts?
2. cost with putting it on - the cost is roughly 4k fitted and tuned
3. loss of resale value would be huge. - not proven, in this day and age i wouldnt be surprised it it increases a little
4. loss power - not on a properly sized and tuned system, in fact there are slight gains to be had
5. restricted in modifcations - see above
6. if money is not a huge issue whats wrong PULP - less cost of the day to day running = more money for mods / more toys :)

A Clubsport on gas is NOT a more desirable car to sell. Whether some agree or not, LPG is seen as an "economy" fuel, but people buy HSV's for "grunt". See the clash...?
One thing none of the LPG supporters mention is the considerable increase in costs of doing plugs, leads, AND AIRBOXES much more often. For an LS1, refer comments on replacing the composite inlet manifold as well. The manifold and airbox comments obviously refer to the more affordable but less reliable "old school" mixer style. For gas injection, refer the slightly ridiculous cost for most people!

[O5BRKY]

Gas is good, if your going keep it for a while!!!:banana:

[pah]

Gas is good, if your going keep it for a while!!!:banana:



And with the currentn depreciation on our LS1's, keeping them for quite a while seems like the sensible thing to do. If VY SS's can be had for somewhere around $20k, what's my SV8 worth? Don't answer that thanks!! I have absolutely NO intention of giving my car away as it's in very good condition and a nice car to drive.

I agree - petrol at $1.40 - $1.50 is PAINFUL but I'm not at the point where I'm hankering for a gas conversion. Where will petrol prices be in a couple of years? Just in case it's up around $2 / L or more, I'd like to have a back up plan in the form of LPG or ethanol etc. They guys who are now doing big km's may want a gas conversion immediately for obvious reasons.

I'm not worried about CAI's or plastic inlet manifolds because I would not consider anything other than an injected conversion. The $4k conversion cost seems a bit high. A bit more competion would be nice. Maybe the pioneers are trying to recoup start-up or design costs? Or maybe they're taking advantage of a lack of competition?? Whatever the reason, I dare say that there's a level of PULP $/L thresh-hold pain that will have each person looking for alternatives (in the form of a gas conversion or a trade-in on a VW Golf or a Ford XR5). Taking into consideration the losses associated with a car upgrade, the $4k costs looks VERY tame.

As far as performance is concerned, a well set up LPG conversion should have the potential to at least equal the power of petrol because LPG has an octane rating in excess of 100 RON. What about a 6.3L stroker engine set up to run on gas?? Now there's a BIG ticket mod!! $10k of stroker engine AND $4k of gas conversion. But it would be cheap grunt to run after the conversion - and still cheaper than trading up to a new car. You'd just have to keep the car for another 10 years to make the swap worth while. For the bloke who buys a 2nd hand VY or VZ SS at the current give-away prices, such a mod should be affordable.





PAH

[Swordie]

It might be worth looking at what system the VZ 3.6 uses or future VEs. This may provide an indication of the type of system Holden may have used if LPG existed for factory V8s. I would also ask a Holden dealer service centres if they can recommend anything or some forum sponsors.

[V8R]

no doubt the current cost of the conversions are driven by fuel prices, just look at the pricing increases of computer controlled mixer systems in the last 5 yrs.. the gear is essentially the same, yet the cost has increased a fair amout. same as in any game, supply and demand dictates pricing.
as far as servcing costs, plugs and leads are not required to be replaced andwhere near as often on an injected system (the ONLY offered for the LS1 and some other modern engines). The same is the case for airboxes, intake hoses and plenums (injected system = no complete air-intake full of gas ready to explode when a dodgey lead / plugs plays up).
The LPG "econo-fuel" argument is valid, the only way to change that is to show that its not true anymore, much like euro manufacturers are doing with diesel.

Figures for my car / area:

Weekly Savings: $41
Annual Savings: $2132
3-Year Savings: $6396

Based on: Cost of petrol/Litre:$1.43
Cost of LPG/Litre:$.62
Current Weekly Spend $95

[lowhsv]

But still some might wanna go gas, but IMO id buy an old shitter to drive around in. At the moment i get 450kms out of $35 in a barina.... Its not what i like driving, but i think its better then converting to gas and cost me about 90% less then a gas conversion. In saying that i dont exactly have an ls1 to fit a gas kit to but stating that there are other options.
If the kit cost $4K i know i could find a very economical and reliable car for that price.
Hell next thing people will be throwing threads up asking if 14" wheels will fit cos they have cheaper tyres!!!!!
And or asking for a "how to do" on cutting springs to save on lowering the vehicle.
Why not even take the boot carpet out and if its not a family car take the back seat out and floor mats etc its less weight and the car wont be working as hard which is less fuel and less $$$.

[V8R]

stepping back into reality for a moment, if you did have an ls1 (hey, if I had one too!), wouldnt you prefer to have the running costs associated with only one vehicle rather than a family car and a shitter?
if that was the situation, spending 4k once, rather than purchase of a decent run about (lets face it, a "real" shitter is going to use just as much fuel as your ls1), plus the ongoings of ~$500+ per year for rego and ctp (nsw), tyres, the odd oil change and filter, would seem to me the smarter solution.
But hey, i like 6ft blondes with team-playing twin sisters too!

[planetdavo]

no doubt the current cost of the conversions are driven by fuel prices, just look at the pricing increases of computer controlled mixer systems in the last 5 yrs.. the gear is essentially the same, yet the cost has increased a fair amout. same as in any game, supply and demand dictates pricing.
as far as servcing costs, plugs and leads are not required to be replaced andwhere near as often on an injected system (the ONLY offered for the LS1 and some other modern engines). The same is the case for airboxes, intake hoses and plenums (injected system = no complete air-intake full of gas ready to explode when a dodgey lead / plugs plays up).
The LPG "econo-fuel" argument is valid, the only way to change that is to show that its not true anymore, much like euro manufacturers are doing with diesel.

Figures for my car / area:

Weekly Savings: $41
Annual Savings: $2132
3-Year Savings: $6396

Based on: Cost of petrol/Litre:$1.43
Cost of LPG/Litre:$.62
Current Weekly Spend $95
Hmmmmmmm.....
We've sold a couple of inlet manifolds at work for LS1's with "old school" mixer type injection.........
Calculate in the roughly 25% extra fuel use on LPG, ANY dual fuel setup will have a power loss to live with, plus plugs and leads do still need more regular replacement, not to mention the problems the "dry" LPG can cause to an engine (especially one that has no factory approved or warranted LPG kit), and I don't see the numbers looking so pretty any more. If he doesn't do a million km's, he's wasting his time!
New tech "factory" common rail diesels have way surpassed "backyard" LPG conversions by the way, but they still aren't for everyone....

[andrewdisco]

My intention is to get frank at APS Service center in frankston to do my LPG conversion for $4k with a sequential lpg injection system... he said a 300kw boltons car would be fine, but if I want to go cam I have to ring back in a couple of weeks to see if he is getting ahold of the bigger injectors.

I'm spending $5k a year on fuel just to go 20,000kms in my car at the moment and i'd like to start doing more trips away... I figure that should be about a $2500 saving a year, meaning the system will pay itself off in less than 2 years.

Regarding the resale... I would have thought it would be pretty easy to sell a car advertised as a 300+kw v8 that costs about the same as an astra to run ?

Also you can take the kit off and sell it seperately later as well...

Also my understanding is that LPG is a high octane fuel as well and the performance drop off in something like an edited ls1 is barely noticeable ? (with the sgi kit)

[SSBarney]

Bit OT from LPG but,

I find it ironic that $2,000 extra in fuel costs warrants buying an additional car, or selling the LS1 altogether. BUT when buying the LS1, it wasnt a problem that it would be losing between $5K & $10K in resale value. And all the knee jerk selling of V8's is just going to increase that loss on resale.

I'd rather keep my LS1, cop the extra $2,000 or so a year in fuel, and I havent crystalised any loss on resale, and i dont have an extra car to pay for.


Barney

[Swordie]

It might be worth calling these guys as they do LS1 edit and LPG stuff. They may have some insight into LS1's and LPG.

Western Link Automotive
193 Roberts Road
Airport West 3042

Tel No : 03 9331 6776
Fax no : 03 9331 6422

Type of Work:

Diagnosing problems, tuning, high performance, EFI repairs, EFI mapping, carburettor calibration, turbo/super charging
High perf eng building
LS1 Edit
LPG tunning
GM specialists

[planetdavo]

I'm spending $5k a year on fuel just to go 20,000kms in my car at the moment and i'd like to start doing more trips away... I figure that should be about a $2500 saving a year, meaning the system will pay itself off in less than 2 years.

Regarding the resale... I would have thought it would be pretty easy to sell a car advertised as a 300+kw v8 that costs about the same as an astra to run.
Also my understanding is that LPG is a high octane fuel as well and the performance drop off in something like an edited ls1 is barely noticeable ? (with the sgi kit)
Many people simply don't like gas cars. They have traditionally been seen as underpowered, smelly, slightly unreliable shi!!ers to be honest! If LPG wasn't so cheap, that industry wouldn't have many benefits to sell itself on.
Regarding the octane, yes it is high octane, but it has a low power rating per gram or whatever (I think that's how it was explained once), and doesn't burn "fast" like petrol, hence the extra requirement for top condition plugs and leads, and more spark, that compromises power output of both fuels on a dual fuel car. I'm sure someone can explain it better than me, but not too many people are that interested in a 300kW dual fuel car with a gas tank in the boot.

[andrewdisco]

yeah I hear where you're coming from.. alot of people hate the idea of lpg... but the good thing is when you're selling a car is that you just need to find one person that likes it :)..... (assuming you decided to sell the car with the kit still on it)

as fuel keeps going up in price there has to gradually become more and more people willing to drive a v8 on gas as the petrol just becomes out of reach... if petrol was $3/Litre... and using LPG meant the difference between a $4000 a year fuel bill and a $10000 a year fuel bill... then I reckon v8 lovers would shine to the ol' BBQ gas pretty quick smart...

I think i'll do a few mods and keep the car for 5 years... which works out to be a $12500 ($8500 after install + whatever you can sell the kit for) saving assuming current fuel prices don't change..

Powerwise you could also argue that because you're on cheap LPG, something like a 3200rpm stally is going to be more appealing (not so worried about excessive fuel consumption) which will effectively lift your average power output on the street ? (as opposed to a lower RPM stally people often opt for to conserve fuel)

that's my logic anyway :p

biggest argument against it for me is the loss of boot space :(

[Peter B - CV8]

biggest argument against it for me is the loss of boot space :([/QUOTE]

Especially if you have a current model Monaro.......

[legalis]

Thanx for the input guys, but if i change the VX Clubby over it will be permanent Gas, so the fuel tank wont be an issue. It doesnt look like there is any full legit gas conversions in the market as of yet. As for why i would do it...I run a dual fuel falcon for work, i would much prefer to run my clubby all day. Pretty simple why i dont want 2 cars if i can drive the clubby all the time. I will be keeping it for quite a while

[V8R]

what do you consider "full legit", legalis?

[vxls1fun]

:burnout: gas is for bbq's not ls1's

[IIV8II]

i
6. if money is not a huge issue whats wrong PULP
i

what he said...

[andrewdisco]

if money wasn't a huge issue I probably wouldn't be driving a holden :D:p

[O5BRKY]

:burnout: gas is for bbq's not ls1's
HaHAAA:lmao:

[legalis]

FOr about $8000 i can have my V6 engine rebuit for gas only fuel. Thats what i mean when i say a legit full conversion. Direct gas injection is close, but the engine still isnt designed for it without a rebuid. And I will people would stop saying "gas is for bbq's". Its a stupid saying.

[RED R8]

I sold a VPSS that I put on gas so I could buy my LS1 and I can tell you performance was a tad crisper on gas I did have the odd backfire until I put on gas leads and plugs then I had no issues ever I would do it on an LS1 if I planned to keep it 3-4 years but all in all it surprised me how good the gas was.When it came time to sell the car I put it out front of my work and a father and son saw it came back a said nice car how much it cost to run after I told him then took them for a drive he then bort it $1000 more than I paid for it 18 months earlier purly because of running costs for his son,they had been up the road looking at lancers.

[Swordie]

I saw a either a WL or WK Grange on LPG today, also one of the latest V8 Fairlaines corporate taxis. The Grange may have been a corporate taxi too.

[V8R]

Legalis, if youre worried about VSR in the LS1, to my knowledge its not been a problem to date in engines of the same materials and construction, over what could be considered an average lifetime (~300k km). tho a rebuild to higher compression could be nice, if youre seriously looking at dedicated gas, but not a requirement at all.
What else do you consider a requirment, as far as the engine goes, for gas.

kerry tells me the crewman managed consumption of 11.9 measured at the bowser, on the trip back from mallala to mudgee. that trip, loaded and driven as such would be looking at consumption of around 10-10.9 on petrol, so not shabby for gas.

[shep]

Hmm lets see.
4K fitting Sequential injected.
same milage pet tank 60lt petrol @ $1.35cpl=$81.00 per tank. 74lt lpg @$0.50cpl=$37.00. if it costs less to drive, you will drive futher, the further you drive, the faster you make your 4K back.
I drove to Brisbane last year from Melbourne in a VX V6 with a mixer style lpg set and it cost me $75 in gas to get there.
The sequentially injected system on my ls1 stato gets better milage and goes harder even alowing for a couple of extra cylinders.
it's a no brainer really
BUT youre right, it just don't seem right on a HSV or an SS.
Shep.

[V8R]

Hi Shep,
Some say it doesnt "seem right" on an SS or HSV but look at the differences in realistic terms.. SFA as far as performance goes, between themselves, and also your stato :). hence why the crewman (thats, SS Crewman, btw ;) ) runs a sequential system. for a parts chaser and family trip-car, it is like you said, a no brainer :)

Now to pull my finger out and fit the factory kit to my falcon.

With fuel prices in town at an avg of 1.44/l for ulp (fluctuates wildly as usual) and 61.9cpl for gas (hasnt changed since before christmas), thats a nice saving.
What system do you have on your stato, out of interest?

[MUSSLE]

And with the currentn depreciation on our LS1's, keeping them for quite a while seems like the sensible thing to do. If VY SS's can be had for somewhere around $20k, what's my SV8 worth? Don't answer that thanks!! I have absolutely NO intention of giving my car away as it's in very good condition and a nice car to drive.

I agree - petrol at $1.40 - $1.50 is PAINFUL but I'm not at the point where I'm hankering for a gas conversion. Where will petrol prices be in a couple of years? Just in case it's up around $2 / L or more, I'd like to have a back up plan in the form of LPG or ethanol etc. They guys who are now doing big km's may want a gas conversion immediately for obvious reasons.

I'm not worried about CAI's or plastic inlet manifolds because I would not consider anything other than an injected conversion. The $4k conversion cost seems a bit high. A bit more competion would be nice. Maybe the pioneers are trying to recoup start-up or design costs? Or maybe they're taking advantage of a lack of competition?? Whatever the reason, I dare say that there's a level of PULP $/L thresh-hold pain that will have each person looking for alternatives (in the form of a gas conversion or a trade-in on a VW Golf or a Ford XR5). Taking into consideration the losses associated with a car upgrade, the $4k costs looks VERY tame.

As far as performance is concerned, a well set up LPG conversion should have the potential to at least equal the power of petrol because LPG has an octane rating in excess of 100 RON. What about a 6.3L stroker engine set up to run on gas?? Now there's a BIG ticket mod!! $10k of stroker engine AND $4k of gas conversion. But it would be cheap grunt to run after the conversion - and still cheaper than trading up to a new car. You'd just have to keep the car for another 10 years to make the swap worth while. For the bloke who buys a 2nd hand VY or VZ SS at the current give-away prices, such a mod should be affordable.





PAH

I have to agree with these points, I'm in the market for a conversion and have read mixed feedback.. Yes there will always be different viewpoints on the subject , but provided you get a quality conversion there's no good reason why you can't make it work...

Here are the simplistics.

1. Fuel ain't getting any cheaper, that is: China and other growing economies starting to become westernised are saying ' stuff this pushbike business!! ' and now the demand is starting to outway the supply. That's Not to say that we are running out of oil but one day it will happen so alternative fuel HAS to start being used.

2. Yes the payback is reasonable. I will do 25k + km's per year, at a $60 per tank saving that extrapalates to a $3000K per year saving unless u plan to be a sucker and trade in your car every few years you will be saving money in 1.5 - 2 years.

3. Power loss; there are plenty to testify that the power loss ( if any ) is negligible. When you can run an 8 with grunt on the cost of a mid size, who cares about top end loss. if you do than it's not for you...

4. I could go on for a while but much of it has bee booted around here already , so i will finish with this important point which encompasses all the above.

Excise will kick in on LPG in another two years. Why, because uncle Johnny knows that there is demand and as per point 1. Oil won't be around for ever. With more and more people using alt fuels uncle johnny and co realise that revenue is being lost every day so excise has to start reaching the realms of LPG, Bio diesel etc. (hint)

Soon enough LPG will be just another fuel source , Just look around next time you are on the road, it's hard NOT to see an LPG car on your travels. I remember 10 years ago I could drive for a week without spotting one ( CABS / Couriers etc excl).

Each to their own!

Just quickly, as per the opening para, If anyone has info on the different SGI systems they have used , appreciate the feedback as it will assit in the supplier i choose.

Wichita.

[SSBarney]

FOr about $8000 i can have my V6 engine rebuit for gas only fuel. Thats what i mean when i say a legit full conversion. Direct gas injection is close, but the engine still isnt designed for it without a rebuid. And I will people would stop saying "gas is for bbq's". Its a stupid saying.

u do not need a full rebuild for gas. The only area gas is harsh to ur engine is valves. Heads redone for gas yes! But a full rebuild is BS

[andrewdisco]

good comments mussle... I think the date has changed though.. originally it was going to start coming in Jan 1 2008.. now it's been put off until 2011.

WOOOOHOOOO :D

Does LPG still cause issues with valve seats ? I thought that wasn't an issues anymore these days with the hardened valves seats that came in with ULP ?

[shep]

Hi Shep,
Some say it doesnt "seem right" on an SS or HSV but look at the differences in realistic terms.. SFA as far as performance goes, between themselves, and also your stato :). hence why the crewman (thats, SS Crewman, btw ;) ) runs a sequential system. for a parts chaser and family trip-car, it is like you said, a no brainer :)

Now to pull my finger out and fit the factory kit to my falcon.

With fuel prices in town at an avg of 1.44/l for ulp (fluctuates wildly as usual) and 61.9cpl for gas (hasnt changed since before christmas), thats a nice saving.
What system do you have on your stato, out of interest?

I have a Tartarini system 3.5k fitted with 3 years warranty. I've had a few mixer systems but this one's a ripper.
Shep

[Swordie]

Here's another link I came across that may interest.

http://www.vags.net.au/Commodore-VY-LPG.htm

[legalis]

Is there anyone in WA who installs the tartarini systems?

[andrewdisco]

I spoke to vags.net.au and they said that they have a petrol assistance setup whereby if you floor the car and it can't get enough gas then it also injects some petrol... I'll have to speak to APS again to find out what system they are using as i dont think that was the case with the setup they were going to use...

[V8R]

the t'rini setup does this as an automatic thing (which i believe is what vags are fitting), most workshops call it adequate but we prefered to modify the system so it ran hard and clean on lpg, which is what happens with kerry's crewman now. the feature is switchable in softwre, along with a host of other things in the latest release.. will try to get more detail in a weeks times.

[shep]

Here's another link I came across that may interest.

http://www.vags.net.au/Commodore-VY-LPG.htm

That site has a great savings calculator on it. Just in case there any doubts

[VTR8TED]

Thanx for the input guys, but if i change the VX Clubby over it will be permanent Gas, so the fuel tank wont be an issue. It doesnt look like there is any full legit gas conversions in the market as of yet. As for why i would do it...I run a dual fuel falcon for work, i would much prefer to run my clubby all day. Pretty simple why i dont want 2 cars if i can drive the clubby all the time. I will be keeping it for quite a while

Well said:teach: I love fanging my clubby all day, its the only way I can get anywhere in a reasonable time on Sydney roads!! I haven't read all the pages off this thread yet but i'm eagerly waiting to see if there is a str8 gas kit available yet cause I'm well interested. Also raising compression makes gas run heaps better as I understand it butt yeah thats more $$$:doh:

[MUSSLE]

good comments mussle... I think the date has changed though.. originally it was going to start coming in Jan 1 2008.. now it's been put off until 2011.

WOOOOHOOOO :D

Does LPG still cause issues with valve seats ? I thought that wasn't an issues anymore these days with the hardened valves seats that came in with ULP ?


Ta,Discoman;

I was not aware the dates had changed as it has been some time since i did the calcs, So i share your sentiment.. wohohoo..


My understanding is with modern engines today , designed to run on unleaded, hence more robust engine components than pre 90 vintage.

I did hear from one guy in my research on the engine being suitable for GAS that is was not as the engine was manufactured in Mexico and not of quality parts , yet i didn't really feel his comments were credible. appart from the piston slap problems that surfaced in the VX's and some very early VY's I'm not aware of any major issues with core components and like.
( if anyone can validate/add to this )

[legalis]

I just ran across a guy in a Boss 260KW FPV XR8 Ute at the bowser who had his ute converted to direct injection gas and gained 15kw. I havent found out what the system is yet, need to call the guys who installed it. even if the ute only held its original KW, its the system i will put into my VY clubby when i get it

[MUSSLE]

Let us know what u find out Legalis,

Cheers.

[bundyvx]

I'm also interested in full gas.

[Leroy]

Everywhere I ring in Melbourne I get the "should be able to get it done for you" when I ask if they can convert my car to lpg without any noticable power drop.

All I want to hear is "We just converted Freddy's LS1 and it now has 221rwkw, why don't you give hima a call" and I would book my car in and pay my $4000. There doesn't seem to be any guys out there with relevant exprience instead of speculation.

I want lpg but I want to know how it will run once its done...............

Please enlighten me.

[saaz]

Technically you should have even harder valve seats installed for LPG to reduce recession as it operates hotter with less lubrication. In practice, even on my VQ5 litre with a computer controlled mixer it was ok at 350,000kms. The XF I had before with a basic mixer system was still going at 470,000kms. Depends on what you want in reliable engine life I suppose.

[V8R]

Hows this Leroy?
" Kerry's SS crewman was converted to gas and back to back power runs on both petrol and gas we performed. Power was within ~7rwkw every run"

This was dyno'd early in the year before we made some mods to the system / gas tuning.


Joel

[andrewdisco]

who's kerry and where was this installed ? :D

[V8R]

kerry is kwfraser (see other gas threads), he installed it himself (licenced gas fitter for the past 10+ years, currently busies himself doing, you guessed it! gas conversions :) )..
his mob: 0427141484
dont bother pm'ing him, hes not often on here, too busy with gas conversions :)

joel

[wrexed03]

Just on LPG some may have seen this some may have not. Might be worth holding off for the moment. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20068348-421,00.html

Regards

[amckiwi]

My mechanic warned me that the new gas injection systems are not yet competely reliable

His words were wait a while before converting

Hopefully demand & therefore price will come down as well

[legalis]

The issue with the govermnet subsidy is what 'fast tracking' means :P as it was initially due 2011, so does fast tracking the initial subsidy might mean 2008!

[Leroy]

Hows this Leroy?
" Kerry's SS crewman was converted to gas and back to back power runs on both petrol and gas we performed. Power was within ~7rwkw every run"

This was dyno'd early in the year before we made some mods to the system / gas tuning.


Joel
I appreciate the help Joel but was that a modded car. I have heard of a fair few completely stock LS1's being put on lpg and running very similar numbers. My car is edited and has an aftermaket exhaust and dynoed 221rwkw. If I put it on lpg will I get a similar number (ie 221rwkw) or will it drop back to the stock 185rwkw or so? If it will hold its power I'm ready to go.

BTW, Kerry isn't in Melbourne is he?

[V8R]

no worries, just happy to report (and try and dispell some of the old myths) what weve found in our case. the hard thing is getting down to sydney and getting extensive use of a dyno. Although, there is now one sitting in the workshop ready to be played about with (YAY!!)
have a chat to APS franskton, theyre about to start dabbling more in edited/bolt on ls1s on gas after developing a system on stockers..

oh, we're in central west NSW.

[xr8_forever]

I stumbled across this site too....

http://www.lpgli.com/features.html

Looks interesting.

[hughba]

Given the government's announcement today on the subsidies for retrofitting LPG, it certainly looks a lot more attractive now. It's a lot easier to save 2000 dollars that 4!

I'd love to know how those with mods (particularly exhaust/intake) go with the LPG set ups.

[V8R]

...and its official
taken from http://pm.gov.au/news/speeches/speech2074.html



To capitalise on Australia’s LPG resources, the Government has decided to bring forward the previously-announced rebate for the purchase of new LPG vehicles for private use. As of today, we will contribute $1,000 to the purchase cost of a new factory-fitted LPG powered vehicle.

In addition, the Government will provide a grant of $2,000 to the cost of converting vehicles to LPG for private use.

In the past, it has typically taken consumers up to two years to pay off the additional costs associated with purchasing or converting to an LPG vehicle. The new LPG rebates are expected to cut this pay-back period significantly.

While savings will depend on fuel consumption and driving habits, the Australian LPG Association estimates that, on average, the fuel bill for a six cylinder vehicle travelling 15,000 kilometres a year would be cut by $27 a week, or more than $1,400 a year, following the conversion.

With these savings and the $2,000 rebate, it would take only four months for the motorist to recoup the net cost of a $2,500 conversion.

The West Australian Government is currently providing a subsidy of $1000 on the purchase of new LPG vehicles or for LPG conversions. I encourage other states and territories to follow the lead of the Commonwealth and WA Governments in encouraging Australians to explore this cheaper fuel alternative.

I am also pleased that the board of the peak industry body – LPG Australia – has established a taskforce to address future needs of consumers and the industry. The Government will be working with the industry to provide advice to consumers on issues such as the suitability of vehicles to be converted. Australian motorists will need to weigh up the costs and benefits of taking up the incentives which I am announcing today. The Government will ensure that consumers have all the relevant information they need to make the right decisions.

The estimated cost of the LPG incentives is $677.1 million over the eight year life of the programme. Taking into account revenue forgone, the total cost is more than $1.3 billion over eight years.

[rickm]

I have a Tartarini system 3.5k fitted with 3 years warranty. I've had a few mixer systems but this one's a ripper.
Shep

how many k's has your wh got?
have you had the warning lamp issue resolved?
I travel 40k mixed city/hwy driving, hows your mileage?
rickm

[rickm]

I have a Tartarini system 3.5k fitted with 3 years warranty. I've had a few mixer systems but this one's a ripper.
Shep

how many k's has your wh got? i drive a wk '04 thinking of converting
have you had the warning lamp issue resolved?
I travel 40k mixed city/hwy driving, hows your mileage?
rickm

[shep]

The old girl has 130,000 on her and although I know what causes the EML to come on (the puter don't know what lpg is) I don't know how to fix it and holden aren't telling. the other day the wife had to go to Waverly every day with visitors (truffers) because her car only got 2 seats, with a bit of freeway drivin she got 520km out of a tank of lpg 74ltrs what she saved on the gas cost she spent on half the toll she used, but still it could have been worse, it could have been running on petrol then it would have cost the same as the toll.
If you do any highway driving the milage will be great, should be somewhere around 600 to 700km/tank, I have'nt got away to test mine yet, I am planing a little drive to Darwin and back through Brisbane the next time the V8's are on up there, can't wait.

[CHEV57]

Shep56,

Sorry mate just another gas question...

Im getting my VTGen3 gassed as we speak, It will be done by Thursday. I actually am getting pretty excited at the fact that I will be filling up at 50c a litre!! My question is with the mileage you are getting from your tank. That 520km figure, I believe that is a mix of freeway and city, am i right? also is that the mileage you were getting out of your petrol tank before you gassed it? Because at the moment I can only manage about 300ks before my lighht goes on, so id say about 400ks to a full tank of fuel. I drive my car pretty hard though. So do you think I'll be getting the same economy from my gas tank? Its 75 litres aswell. Also could you please comment on the power difference if any

Thanks in advance for your reply

[danfoss5000]

i assume it would drop the power a fair bit but the fuel savings might be worth it!

[CHEV57]

It will be interesting to see, I dynoed my car last week and I intend to do another dyno run next week just to see the difference.

[ICH II]

What about converting a VY S ute to LPG, would it be easier than a SS ?

Ian.

[Lokky]

I thought that there might be some problems with the valve seats in engines changed straight over to gas without mods.

[badnews]

jakes performance in canberra just finished a vy ss crewman. twin low mount turbos runs on straight gas. i believe it made 505hp at the tyres, the guy uses it for work, drives 900km a week and costs him $90. not bad for a work ute. although the twin turbo and gas setup apparently cost $$$

[crtx]

go buy a astra

[V8R]

^^^ wtf was that about?

[German Statesman]

go buy a astra

Good on ya :rolleyes:

[mwjp71]

Gday V8R

I believe I have purchased KWfraser's crewman.
Could you please buzz me as I am trying to gather as much
info about the car in case of a future problem.

Thanks, Mark

0439 355 059

ps i have tried Kezz to no avail