$2000 bonus if you convert your car to LPG

[GR8M8]

How many of you will now do it?
Unfortunately for me it sounds like it will only be for private use only cars.
As I use mine for business it sounds like I'll miss out.
Good news for most others though.

Gidddyup, Geoff.

[blueyedbikerman]

where do i sign up and whats it cost nowdays

[Nemisis]

Does anyone know who we need to speak to about this? And do we need prior approval to do so?

Thanks
Karl

[xshore]

I wouldn't mind reading an article on it, at this stage I reserve doubt and think it's a gimick. Maybe more some type of tax cut saving a couple of hundred ? Anyways I'm searching now for more info on it as it does sound good. Do we even have one person on this forum that has had a successful gas conversion on their ls1? without detracting from the original topic, who thinks you won't have to sign a disclaimer from the installer that they are not liable for a disintergrated manifold.

[SCiFiRE]

not interested in my fun cars to be on LPG.... but a VS Calais 5L on gas to get to work and back would be sweet

[spank]

this looks like a good deal from the governmint but i suspect theyre up to something, maybe im just cynical but i have heard from BP execs that i drive that the 38.5 cpl we pay on petrol will be put onto lpg by 2008, so lpg by 2008 could be 93.9 cpl going by the servo near my place IF gas doesnt go up by 08 - fat chance so $1 per litre plus , with evryone converting their cars and using more gas than petrol the governmint will soon make back their money , stats are showing public transport is getting more use therefore car use is less , less fuel bought less tax, just a thought;)

[GR8M8]

I got a price today of $3600 to convert my 2004 V6 crewman using vapour injection and they are booked out till November.
I am keen to find out the finer details on this private use. Hopefully if it is you only vehicle, it will be eligible for the bonus.

Giddyup, Geoff.

[VY LS1 UTE]

Not much info yet, but does anyone know if this will apply to new vehicals only? It wouldnt suprise me if the price of installs increase dramitcally once/if this is implemented, same goes for the price of gas. You cant trust the government

[markone2]

Should just about cover the instant 2K depreciation your going to cop on your late model Commodore.....Yep.. LPG powered cars are still unwanted /unloved orphans down the local car raffles....
:idea: Did I mention the install price just shot up by over 1K at the Wollongabba LPG Installers ( South Brisbane )

[GR8M8]

$2000 bonus is for existing cars.
$1000 bonus is for a new car that has been converted.

"Spank" If your theory is he's right about them getting us all converted to gas and then putting the price of gas up, surely they would include all business vehicles as well.

RACV stated earlier this year that LPG converted cars were a valued at up to $1500 more than standard, at resale.

Giddyup, Geoff.

[OLS108]

RACV stated earlier this year that LPG converted cars were a valued at up to $1500 more than standard, at resale.

Giddyup, Geoff.

With all Due Respect to the RACV, i would rather be listing to a Man who is in the game and is at the Auctions week in week out.
Dave

[GTO Coupe]

Im no expert at the autogas thing, but isnt there significant power reductions involved with converting to lpg? Surely if you are a proud LS1 owner, youre not interested in reducing the power of your V8?

[Leroy]

I have done a bit of research on this topic lately and although some gas fitters have had success converting a standard LS1 without a noticable power drop, no one I have spoken to (and that is a few) has done an editted car with an exhaust.................I find this amazing and disconcerting.

[MrCLubby]

Meanwhile Ive been driving a dedicated lpg vehicle since mid last year and have been laughing after filling up at .42 cents average over the months.

[OUTAtheBloo]

Does anyone know if theres a web site with some FAQ on it ?

Id also be interested if the GenT range of turbo kits could be tuned to run on gas, and if admissions would be better on a gas powered car ?

Dan

[SS_Fury]

Meanwhile Ive been driving a dedicated lpg vehicle since mid last year and have been laughing after filling up at .42 cents average over the months.

maybe so, but we laugh when a stylish AU, such as which you own, tries to drag us :whip: ;)

[legalis]

It was just confirmed this morning that $2000 is being implemented now, like in a week or so. And the LPG exise starts in 2011 and the max the government is putting it on is 12.5c by 2015. So its all pretty decent :)

[Tre-Cool]

my parents are laughing all the way to the bank. they baught themselves a 2002 vx sedan exec, booked it in for a gas install 1 month ago, went in today.

W.A government puts in $1K rebate, now the federal puts in $2K. conversion was only costing $2.5K.

There essentially getting a gas conversion for FREE!!!

[aftahours]

If the car is running dedicated LPG then you don't need cat convertors I believe, but I could be wrong. Bit of a power boost then, by removing those pesky things.

[BlueVZSS]

Im no expert at the autogas thing, but isnt there significant power reductions involved with converting to lpg? Surely if you are a proud LS1 owner, youre not interested in reducing the power of your V8?

Well said. If you want to try before you buy, just pop the bonnet on your car and pull a spark lead or two off. I doubt many will enjoy the experience.

[RED R8]

Meanwhile Ive been driving a dedicated lpg vehicle since mid last year and have been laughing after filling up at .42 cents average over the months.

My god an AU with something going for it.:lmao:

[markone2]

RACV stated earlier this year that LPG converted cars were a valued at up to $1500 more than standard, at resale.

Giddyup, Geoff.


RACV should stick to doing what they know best.......turning a fast buck, under the fast fading pretext of aiding the motorist....its an odds on dead cert they and there brethren ( RACQ etc) are already compiling a list of preferred LPG installers imho......installers who then in kind return the favour *$$$$*. for such recommendations.......

[BRISVX]

What's the going rate for mileage from LPG? People are saying it is much cheaper per litre than petrol, but I don't think you get as far, so need to factor that into the equation as well.

They were saying on the News last night that wait times on conversions are already into next year! Add in the loss of boot space, higher risk of explosion with gas, sudden increased install cost.......the whole thing is already starting to lose appeal to me.

[markone2]

The established direct cost of promoting LPG conversions is 677 million spread over 8 years......BUT actually delivering a 10 cent cut in the price of petrol would cost between $3 billion......if just applied to petrol....and $4 Billion a year if applied across the board.

[pah]

Well said. If you want to try before you buy, just pop the bonnet on your car and pull a spark lead or two off. I doubt many will enjoy the experience.



It's my understanding that power losses associated with LPG are largely the result of stuffing a gas carby in the CAI (reducing air flow) and the fact that LPG has less energy than petrol.

The use of LPG injection of course overcomes the problems associated with gas carbies. I would not buy a kit that used a carby. It's old technology.

Crowds like Injection Perfection in Melbourne have been building HIGH PERFORMANCE LPG conversions for years but I think they focus on older style engines.

I understand that a dedicated LPG engine can be tuned to make at least the same power as it's petrol equivalent. This is because LPG has a VERY high octane rating (over 100 RON). Tuning the engine to take advantage of this compensates for any losses associated with less energy in LPG.

I agree with the comment above - LPG makes cheap-to-buy V8's look like a good deal. A VR or VS 308 would be a nice bump-and-grind machine.

You can bet your boots (or your Nankangs if you prefer to drive) that people will be coming out of the woodwork all over the place to sign up for LPG conversions and that may encourage the greedy bums in the oil industry to think carefully about excessive petrol prices. Their use of ethanol may help them to keep petrol a bit cheaper. A Renewable Fuels Australia rep said on ABC 2BL that the Oil Co's have not yet honoured a commitment to market an agreed amount of ethanol. If that's true, it seems to me that it may be a sign that they are more interested in maintaining the status quo than working with the government to reduce the pain associated with current fuel prices.

WHAT WE NEED ARE FORUM SPONSORS WHO ARE PCM TUNING EXPERTS TO GAIN ACCREDITATION TO FIT LPG KITS OR LPG INSTALLERS TO LEARN HOW TO PERFORMANCE TUNE PCM's. I wonder if Holden and Ford will offer LPG powered VE SS's and XR6 Turbos etc? LPG and turbo combo's have been around for more than 20 years, probably because LPG has such a high octane rating.



PAH

[Swordie]

I wonder how much the price of conversions will go up?

[MrCLubby]

maybe so, but we laugh when a stylish AU, such as which you own, tries to drag us :whip: ;)

At a cost of $25 a fill compared to $80 a full tank, ill be happy just to sit back and cruze it at the lights actually. By the end of the week ive got $50 in my wallet i wouldnt have normally if I didnt have the car.

Sure the body could be the worst possible outcome for a car like this but the engine is much more refined than the ecotec and whilst on straight gas will last me until a further 800 000 km before needed a new engine.

[VXSS346]

I wonder how much the price of conversions will go up?

Exactly, It probably just rose last night by $1000

[V8R]

talk to aps frankston, i believe theyre doing some extensive work with ls1s (stock and edited now) and injections... nice old wives tales floating about in this thread too (big power loss, bad consumption, blah blah blah).. do a search, we've been talking gas in a couple of other threads over the past few weeks.
Leroy, i dont know if i mentioned it in the other thread, kerrys crewman has an exhaust but no edit yet (sonnys is a fair drive and as you prolly guessed gas conversions are kepping us busy as hell ;) )

[V8R]

PS: you can expect conversions to go up a small amount (~$200), as parts are already scarce and installers booked out as it is.. this is only going to make the situation worse.. what ever you do, dont go shopping on price, there ARE good and bad conversions.

[monaroCountry1]

This LPG deal offered by the government might be a good thing for Holden.

Families are opting for medium sized cars because of petrol prices. If Holden hurry up on their LPG commies then fuel conscious customers might flock back to large RWD sedans.

This deal could seriously give Australia’s automotive industry a huge boost. Great for Holden, Ford and Mitsubishi.

[Avalanche]

It will end up like the diesel fuel rebate. The install prices will go up heaps & u will end up paying the same out of your pocket. Diesel went up & negated the rebate when it came in. Installers will be the winners in this. Same when gst came in & every one wanted work done before hand, it was name your price time.

[Danv8]

Might be ok for my Rodeo but for an SS Commode thats on my wish list nup not gonna happen. ;)

[andrewdisco]

it amazes me that when you tell people you can run for less than 40% of the cost of petrol and potentially have MORE power they still can't break free of a 20 year old stigma...

I'm hoping my car will be one of the first cam and exhaust cars to go through the process.

In my experience LPG cars seem to sell very quickly as people love the idea of low cost motoring...

A 350kw car that costs almost the same as an astra to run.. yeah who'd want one of those :p

[andrewdisco]

and yeah does anyone know the exact details of this deal ? i'd like to get around this 'business usage' thing somehow....

[pah]

it amazes me that when you tell people you can run for less than 40% of the cost of petrol and potentially have MORE power they still can't break free of a 20 year old stigma...

I'm hoping my car will be one of the first cam and exhaust cars to go through the process :p


Thanks for your comments Andrew,

You'll no doubt tell us how well your machine runs after the conversion.

What can you tell us about your LPG conversion? How much? Who's the installer? How does the system work?




PAH

[Pickles]

and yeah does anyone know the exact details of this deal ? i'd like to get around this 'business usage' thing somehow....
Some good comments here-I don't know much about it, because I'm simply not interested- we've got an Astra for our "everyday" car! But, I don't like the sound of "business usage"--surely this deal will be for everyone?
Cheers, Pickles.

[VT LS1]

I keep seeing heaps about power loss. But it is my understanding that you do not loose any power when on petrol, just on gas. So what if you have 200rwkw for the daily commute, so long as you still have 250 when you flick the switch accross to petrol down at the drags (or on your favourite 'private' road).
The business use thing seems to be a bit of a bastard though, the people hurting most are low income earners and small business.

[pah]

I keep seeing heaps about power loss. But it is my understanding that you do not loose any power when on petrol, just on gas. So what if you have 200rwkw for the daily commute, so long as you still have 250 when you flick the switch accross to petrol down at the drags (or on your favourite 'private' road).
The business use thing seems to be a bit of a bastard though, the people hurting most are low income earners and small business.

And if we get done by a quick XR Ford, we can use the excuse that we were running on gas. :hide:

All joking aside, I agree with your point. It's the best of both worlds if we can do that. I can't see why the LPG tune can't be set to at least match the petrol tune, taking into consideration LPG's 100+ RON rating.


PAH

[GR8M8]

Guys I have a hotline number for you 132 846

the private use part of it all, means that as long as you have your vehicle registered as a private use vehicle, you will get the $2000 rebate if you convert.
If you claim a small amount of vehicle costs, you will pay tax on the similar percentage of the $2000 rebate.

To claim the rebate, you pay for the installation in full, and then after the first of October, simply go down to centre link and make a claim.

Below is a good link to the auto gas site that has a good calculator on it.
http://www.vags.net.au/LPG-services.htm

It works out that I can pay for my $3600 conversion in 11 months without the rebate.

Giddyup, Geoff.

[andrewdisco]

Leroy rang up and got the same story... I think it's about $4300 all up for the sequential lpg injection kit installed.. for me break even is 16 months.

I'm waiting on confirmation of a booking time and mine will be coming back with a cam package, extractors, high flow cats, stally and of course the LPG system. I'll be sure to post up the outcome...

VT LS1 > The systems for these cars are the newer vapour injection models so there is no discernable power loss.. the system is much more precise than the old throttle body install method only using about 15% more LPG than petrol and not displacing as much air when it is mixed (because it's injected instead of mixed at the thottle body with the air).

That's my understanding anyway...

As Geoff posted - check out www.vags.net.au

[JNP304]

Some valid points on here and some old school thinking as well. These days its not the massive power loss like hooking up a poxy cheap gas system to a XD351 and watching it get done by Honda Accords. For example the power figure on a dedicated gas BAXT is now lower then the petrol version (i think it may be 3-4kw more?)
As for gas going up to 90c? Not happening. The government will phase in the excise on gas and it will be capped at 12.5cpl (or so they tell us!)
APS in Frankston as someone else said is doing extensive research on LPG LS1 vehicles with vapor injection systems ect. Will be interesting to see the outcome.
And its also a fact that LPG has a higher octane rating than petrol. Reason most old cars lose power is due to the way the LPG was delivered to the engine..usually restrictive cheap LPG systems.
Some very very quick LPG VL Turbos running around.
Im not going to rush out and put gas on my LS1 but we cant write it off straight away without investigation and old school thinking.

[JNP304]

Sorry typo in that last post. I meant the power rating for the BA XT Dedicated LPG is NO lower than its petrol sibling.

[andrewdisco]

I think the BA E-Gas model is 156 versus 182kw from memory..

But I also think that is because the e-gas isn't a vapour injection system ? i.e a more traditional thottle body type install ?

http://www.ford.com.au/landing/egas/

[JNP304]

Hmm I guess that rating of 156kw was from Ford themselves so it must be correct. Damn google!

[Nobby]

Yep, Barra LPG is back down around AU power levels. Still plenty to keep the car moving, but its certainly not exciting. You want exciting you'll probably be driving a V8 or a turbo anyway though.

That said, I recall reading a few years back when BA came out that testing with vapour injection had happened and that it was infact more powerful than the petrol model (around 187Kw in the time of the Barra 182Kw engine). Imagine the possibilities with engine refinement since then.

I really hope Orion gets a the new tech LPG. I'd be in the market for a Fairmont Ghia with it at the head of the queue.

[John L]

GEN111 LPG VAPOUR INJECTION CONVERSION

Some info on GEN111 LPG VAPOUR INJECTION CONVERSION if you visit my web page www.vtatune.com there are some pictures. To date I have not done any specific consumption figures I currently have a hire car Gen111 collecting these figures for me I will be including them on my web site when I get them hope the following helps .

Riverstone LP Gas Centre a Sydney based LPG conversion company established for 29 years are now converting Gen111 & 1V to LPG and (I believe they are booked out to December and this was before the government anounced the rebate) recently converted a Cross 8 to operate on duel fuel petrol and LPG using the new Italian OMVL sequential vapour injection kit. I have been involved in the tuning development on a VY Ute owned by Michael one of the owners of Riverstone LPG as his vehicle moves through the various state of mechanical development. While Michael’s car is not yet on LPG, Riverstone LPG has completed many approved GEN111 LPG vapour injection conversions on LS1 & L76 to date with all customers being extremely happy with the result.

The Cross 8 customer was impressed with the standard LPG conversion result with the comment he felt it performed better on LPG than petrol. I offered to load a developed custom LPG upgraded tune into his vehicle and he could evaluate, he came back from the test drive and was amazed with the increase in performance, consequently purchased the upgrade. The customer rang back the following day and again confirmed he felt it performed better on LPG than on petrol. It was clear that there was no loss of power on LPG with this vapour injection system which responded positively to custom tuning in the same manner as petrol custom tuning.



LPG EQUIPMENT

There are three LPG conversion categories :



The conventional Vapour Mixer Type comparable to the efficiency of petrol carburetor cars and proned to backfires.



Liquid Injection which has been demonstrated to deliver higher performance than petrol, however has been under development for the past 10 years or so and still is, when the technical issues are resolved this will be a more than viable hi-performance automotive fuel particularly with forced induction with the benefit of what I call chemical intercooling as the liquid LPG is released from the injector as a liquid and absorbs enormous amount of heat as it changes to a vapour state .



Vapour injection which is the approved LPG kit available for LS1 LS2 & L76 the main difference between vapour injection and the mixer type which has been used for the past 30 plus years is the elimination of backfires and the introduced induction restriction with the ability to achieve fine control over the fuel delivery. The LPG vapour injection system has an operating pressure of 22psig at the LPG injectors.



LPG EQUIPMENT OPERATION

LPG is stored in a conventional LPG tank. Propane at 24 degrees C has a vapour pressure of 119psig, liquid LPG then travels from the LPG tank to the converter mounted in the engine bay by means of pressure differential. Radiator water is piped to the converter to supply latent heat which is required to convert LPG from a liquid state to a vapour state. LPG vapour is then piped to the injector distribution block at 22psi, the solenoids 4 LH bank & 4 RH bank on two injector blocks are driven by the GM engine management computer via the petrol injector pulse width through the LPG computer, tracking sequentially and performing close loop and open loop operation as petrol would.



The LPG management computer controls start up on petrol and until rpm is above 1600rpm and 25 seconds pass it will then automatically switch seamlessly to LPG and it is seamless. Under wide open throttle the LPG computer is monitoring the LPG vapour pressure and at WOT if this falls below a pre-set level it will change to petrol automatically, again seamlessly. While data logging on the standard program it did not change from LPG to petrol at WOT throughout the rpm range in first gear however on the custom program it was switching to petrol because the gas converter could not meet demand this can be overcome if required with dual converters and can also be configured to utilised forced induction. The automatic switching to petrol is a design feature of this system which meets emission standards and keeps petrol injectors operating optimally. The operation can be switched manually by a dash mounted switch to operate on either fuel.





LPG AS AN AUTOMOTIVE FUEL

Automotive LPG can be a mixture propane and butane with an unofficial standard of a maximum blend of 60/40 respectively. Propane has the highest octane rating at 104 plus(depending on where the information is sourced) and Butane at around 90 octane. LPG has a lower calorific content than petrol and requires approximately 15% more LPG (on vapour injection systems) than petrol for the vehicle to travel the same distance, however LPG as a vapour blends homogenously with air and does achieve better combustion efficiency than petrol, another benefit of LPG is there is no carbon particles as a byproduct of combustion consequently the engine oil remains clean and wear is reduced.



The major Sydney LPG storage facility is the Elgas Cavern and underground storage facility at Port Botany , Elgas and Kleanheat operate at a retail level as Unigas, Unigas has predominantly supplied propane only.



A good way to determine a retailer has propane only in his bulk automotive storage tank is to ask if the same delivery tanker filled the bulk tank and the BBQ 190kg refiller bottle as the 190kg cylinder must contain propane only as a statutory requirement.



TUNING FOR LPG

Traditional custom tuning procedures apply noting the characteristics of the LPG ignition curve is different to petrol and stoichiometric for LPG is also different. Dual ignition maps can be configured to accommodate low octane unleaded and high octane LPG for optimum dual fuel operation.



PERFORMANCE RESULTS

Vapour injection set up correctly will as a minimum achieve performance equal to 98 octane petrol and will respond positively to custom tuning again with performance equal to petrol.

John L
VTA

[JNP304]

Thanks Nobby. I knew I read it somewhere that Fraud had a system that had more power than the petrol engine. Must have been just for testing purposes as you said. Would be popular if they released this kind of system.

[OzJavelin]

The thing which concerns me about this thread is the number of re-occurances of the words "researching", "developing", "experimenting", etc relating to the latest whiz-bang LPG systems. Who wants their car to be the experimental on for a new VSI, direct-injection, etc, etc, etc LPG system? I converted my AU V8 ute to LPG (dual fuel) last year and the problems I have had, I'm glad I kept it dual fuel and I used the old "BBQ burner" type system. After about four months of trouble it finally runs OK, but still will not start first go. To me this is fine for an old cast-iron 5.0L, but I'm not going to subject my GenIII to this ..... not unless I see a LOT of happy GenIII owners already using it. From my experience and in talking to other LPG drivers, most installers are pretty good at the "installing" bit .. but fail miserably on the after-sales service and rudimentary debugging skills (like*me* finding the PCV damaged after returning to the installer twice for poor idle problem). If they can't get this right with a simple system, how the h3ll will they cope with an "injected" derivative??

My two cents ..

[Trek52]

I agree, if I could be assured that a LPG system would work 100% and that I could have my tune I would sign up now !!
But until I can be given this assurance I will stick with BP 98.

[vh-holden]

As for gas going up to 90c? Not happening. The government will phase in the excise on gas and it will be capped at 12.5cpl (or so they tell us!)

Last time i checked it was 80c at one servo and high 70s at a few others in darwin.

there are a few that are still at 70c.


the thing that i'd really like to know is whether there will be a rebate for those people needing full inspections and refits every 10 years. I've got one due this year and have been told by the local LPG guy that it will be between $300 and $700.

[amckiwi]

My mechanic said to me wait because the injection systems are not proving reliable yet He has no interest in gas conversions

Also

Cats cannot be removed for any reason

But if you were running dedicated gas i do not think they can be tested, so would respond well to being gutted

I am keen for a conversion but will be waiting for a while

Stu

[andrewdisco]

LPG has been about 42 cents here lately... although it does seem to have jumped up to 49 cents at most servo's around here over the last few days....

[JNP304]

vh-Holden. I didnt know gas was so high in other parts of Aus. Its floating around 41.c here at the moment but 70.c seems quite excessive. why is it so dear up north?

[vh-holden]

vh-Holden. I didnt know gas was so high in other parts of Aus. Its floating around 41.c here at the moment but 70.c seems quite excessive. why is it so dear up north?

no idea. as soon as i finish two importantish assignments for uni, i'm going to start emailing people who might know, or are paid to represent me and find out - my local members of parliament.

Actually, i might do it now.

[AndrewW]

Add in the loss of boot space, higher risk of explosion with gas, sudden increased install cost.......the whole thing is already starting to lose appeal to me.

Firstly the boot space. It is possible to get gas tanks that will fit in place of the existing fuel tank (not on all cars, but it can be done). This of course only works on a pure gas car.

As to the risk of explosion :lmao: :lmao: someone call mythbusters, seriously some of these urban myths need to be shot down.

I remember watching a test that was conducted by the NRMA I think where they parked and LPG vehicle on top of a tray of burning petrol. The entire car was burnt down to a bare metal shell, but the gas tank retained its integrity.

If I could get a pure LPG install in my SS that didn't sacrifice power and didn't eat into my boot, then I'd be sold.

Just my 2c.

Andrew.

[vh-holden]

I remember watching a test that was conducted by the NRMA I think where they parked and LPG vehicle on top of a tray of burning petrol. The entire car was burnt down to a bare metal shell, but the gas tank retained its integrity.


my uncle was telling me that a friend of theirs was touring in a 4wd fitted with LPG. the car caught on fire and the only bit that survived was the tank.

[muzza]

As others have said, the newer VI systems appear to be on the right track. The Liquid Inection systems have never got past the prototype phase yet and if they emerge will likely be even more costly.

BUT there are still obvious problems to overcome.

Firstly, the lack of decent OE factory LPG cars - Ford has come closest yet but still they have a problem with the spare wheel sitting in the middle of the boot. Sure they have under floor tanks, LPG specific engine, standard fuel guage integrated etc but they cant fix something as stupidly obvious as mounting the spare wheel upright in the side of the boot to create a better space.

Whilst on Ford - WTF haven't they launched an LPG only Territory? Seems like a no brainer esp. given it's higher thirst than Falcon. They could be selling shitloads right now as people drop guzzling urban 4wd's like hot coals.

The biggest bug bear with dual fuel sedans is still the loss of boot space - and the loss of ski-port/split-fold rear seats.

[GR8M8]

A doughnut tank can used for some vehicles, especially if your tyre is suspended underneath like on my crewman.
Perhaps you can get rid of the tyre and keep a pressure pack of tyre filler for emergencies and pop the doughnut tank in its place.

Hey disco, your project sounds exciting, can't wait to hear more about it, but in the meantime get back on your bike.

Giddyup, Geoff

[Black VU SS ute]

but doesn't your car have to go over the pits after the converstion, and how is a modding ls1 going to go if you have a Cam, loud exhaust, etc. If i can get around this here in WA, then I'll sign up for the gas injection converstion tomorrow.

[AndrewW]

but doesn't your car have to go over the pits after the converstion, and how is a modding ls1 going to go if you have a Cam, loud exhaust, etc. If i can get around this here in WA, then I'll sign up for the gas injection converstion tomorrow.

When I had my torana converted to gas (this was in NSW) the guy that did the install provided me with a certificate of installation that I had to take down to the motor registry and hand in with an RTA form. No inspection requried.

Andrew.

[Nemisis]

Hey Guys,
I made some enquiries today and have managed to book my car in for SGI on the 7th of March, 2007 what the hell is going on there? No doubt a total lack of installers. lol. So I have a little while to make further mods. Can anyone suggest a good intaller that doesnt have a waiting list this long??

Thanks
Karl

[Bitza]

I've booked my 6 pak wagon in for lpg conversion, mine will be getting installed in Bendigo, been quoted 3K, theres a 4-6 week waiting time and the installer uses mainly Impco Gas equipment. We do enough km's to justify fitting gas at the moment and it should stop the Minister of Finance & War complaining about the cost of petrol when she fills up, even though I'm paying. The upside to this is what she saves filling with gas, means more fuel for the Camaro:lmao:

[markone2]

I note the Government has no intention of converting its own fleet of cars...one reason given...not economical as vehicles travel under 50.000Ks per year.

[Speedy Gonzales]

I note the Government has no intention of converting its own fleet of cars...one reason given...not economical as vehicles travel under 50.000Ks per year.

Exactly.

You dont buy a V8 for fuel economy, its for power and speed, LPG on a LSx motor, thanks for todays laugh :lmao:

[Brass Munky]

Does anyone know if theres a web site with some FAQ on it ?

Id also be interested if the GenT range of turbo kits could be tuned to run on gas, and if admissions would be better on a gas powered car ?

Dan

I didnt read the whole thread, i browsed it but didnt see a link for this, here is an FAQ page for ya, im converting my VN HSV to gas now cos of this scheme instead of selling it

http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/content/content.cfm?ObjectID=4F950433-C690-49A3-85D9F492D1A67BCB&L2Parent=AEB901E5-7CB8-4143-A3BF33B2423F9DA6&L3Parent=D47685C8-0B0B-459C-B07A2EFBDB3D4AF7

[vh-holden]

I note the Government has no intention of converting its own fleet of cars...one reason given...not economical as vehicles travel under 50.000Ks per year.

those numbers are dodgy i reckon. how many government cars are left idling while the pollie is off cutting ribbons or kissing babies?

[wally01]

Getting our 6 pot done aswell in the next few weeks ,at Bill Towler at Burton $3k needs it for 3 to 4 days included is a Dyno tune then a follow up @1500 ,will save me around $30 per week i use $60 as it is now and don't go anywhere to any great extent but still manage to do 300-350 ks per week .

[blueyedbikerman]

hi guys , i was talking to the gas guy here in gympie and he said the new setup for the ls1 you wont lose any power as lpg is about 126ron to 90 odd for unleaded and under full power it swichs but to unleaded to keep up with the demand so i am getting it done in a couple of weeks at a cost of 3700 minus 2000 , cant wait

[shep]

Sequetial vapour Injection.
More power than petrol.
LPG is lots cheaper than petrol.
For those doubters (and there is heaps of you out there), every one that has had this conversion done to their LS1 is wondering how long you blokes will take to wake up.
With things being said like "you dont get a V8 to save money" & "Gas is for BBQ's" & "I need that room in my boot for the swimming pool" & "it's experimental" all I can say is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"
And now someone wants to give you money to get the conversion done. Holy Cow!!

[SS220]

Only Prob is in WA after ringing around for 2 days to try and find someone to do a conversion to a LS1 I finally found one place that will do it, at a cost of $5200 and a 8 month advanced booking. I will have sold the car before I recoupe the money in fuel savings!!! (It's a weekend car) So I'm sticking to petrol for now!!
Maybe I'll have gas on the next car if I can find one that has already been converted.

Anyway thats my 2c worth.

Tim

[wrexed03]

I managed to get a booking hopefully 2 weeks from what they tell me but i will be suprised if it does happen in 2 weeks. I had to put 200 bucks down for the booking. On top of that my original quote has gone up 300 bucks on top of what was qutoed originaly. At the end of the day i will be out of pocket 600 dollars after the 2000 dollar cash back. Crap happens.. Theres going to be some wealthy lpg installers out there.

Regards

[markone2]

hi guys , i was talking to the gas guy here in gympie and he said the new setup for the ls1 you wont lose any power as lpg is about 126ron to 90 odd for unleaded and under full power it swichs but to unleaded to keep up with the demand so i am getting it done in a couple of weeks at a cost of 3700 minus 2000 , cant wait

Current line of thought is dedicated LPG can provide similar power output.. Dual fuel application does not…..source * Carb & Gas*..Mount Joy Street Woolloongabba Thursday 17th August.....I would be requesting to test drive one of his LS1 conversions to establish these bountiful claims before committing...this would also serve to confirm yours will not become his GEN111 to Gas conversion number one......LPG powered LS1's are pretty damn scarce around QLD...even in limo land

[SSBarney]

I finally found one place that will do it, at a cost of $5200 and a 8 month advanced booking.
Tim

Thats exactly what the govt rebate is going to cause a lot more.

[V8R]

....meanwhile as shep menioned, all those with "experimental" injected kits are laughing all the way to the cashier.
its simple..
the injected kits (tartarini and omvl are the main two im familiar with) have cut over if the gas computer detects that the system cant keep up with supply.. thats standard..

the tuner CAN custom tune, fit larger injectors, twin convertors IF YOU WANT, to stop this and run hard and clean on gas only...
there really isnt anything experimental about it..
you want the standard kit, its designed to cut over to petrol on high demand..
you want a gas only setup, pay more and get a customised one....

me? im just an interested party who just helps fit and tune em. the proof is in the driving, and that ive done..
now to find the $$$ to get out of this fraud and into an ls1 ute............

[SV8VY]

I wonder if its possible to get Nos hooked up to the lpg tank and get a rebate for this :stick:
I only use the car on weekends now so gas isnt an issue for me.

[Leroy]

....meanwhile as shep menioned, all those with "experimental" injected kits are laughing all the way to the cashier.
its simple..............
V8R, your input regarding lpg has been very informative and I thank you for that. However not one person in the 15 or so pages I have read on the topic over the last week has said THEY have had the conversion and THEY are very happy...............I'm booked in to get lpg in a couple of weeks (business car = I don't get the rebate) and yet I'm still scepticle.

So lets hear you. If YOU have had your LS1 converted to lpg lets hear your opinions. I don't want to hear I'm an installer or my mate, my dad, my uncle's step daughter's goat did the conversion.....................you know what I mean. LETS HEAR IT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

[bundyvx]

V8R, your input regarding lpg has been very informative and I thank you for that. However not one person in the 15 or so pages I have read on the topic over the last week has said THEY have had the conversion and THEY are very happy...............I'm booked in to get lpg in a couple of weeks (business car = I don't get the rebate) and yet I'm still scepticle.

So lets hear you. If YOU have had your LS1 converted to lpg lets hear your opinions. I don't want to hear I'm an installer or my mate, my dad, my uncle's step daughter's goat did the conversion.....................you know what I mean. LETS HEAR IT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

I SECOND THE MOTION !
I'M LOOKING FOR A DEDICATED CONVERSION WITH THE VIEW TO MODIFYING ZORST AND INTAKE AT A LATER STAGE. HAS ANYBODY DONE THIS ?

[V8R]

duly noted leroy. you must also understand that not everyone who owns an ls1 is on this board, and its more than likely swayed the other way, with lpg being an "econofuel" and all.. nor is every installer (and more importantly in this case, tuner) on here either.. i'd be keeping a close on what APS frankston are doing. whether or not they will have the time to document will be another story.
meanwhile this ovl dream on a landcruiser 100 v8 is looking the goods.



Thats exactly what the govt rebate is going to cause a lot more.

alot more waiting time, no arguments there..

bundyvx, try med automotive for your thing, but be prepared for a wait. on the same note, remember the scheme is slated for 8 yrs atm

[bundyvx]

Thanx V8r,
Will Try Med Automotive.

Roy

[demoniquekryes]

wat a load of crap....pay you 4g to get it converted then wait 3 years to actually give the 2g back....thats the government...dont expect it straight away....

[CHEV57]

I'll be getting my LS1 gassed mid next week by Richard at RLS. He's using the Sprint Gas Sequential Vapour Injection System. I'll let everyone know how it goes in a week's time.

[GR8M8]

wat a load of crap....pay you 4g to get it converted then wait 3 years to actually give the 2g back....thats the government...dont expect it straight away....

seeing you raised the "load of crap" your opinion is up on the top of it.

Pay your money then after the 1st of October take your receipt and rego down to the Centrelink office and from the horses mouth, "it's just like claiming a medical bill"


Giddyup, Geoff.

[Swordie]

Below are some things I have come across in relation to Gas. I’m no expert.

1. It is better to go dedicated LPG as your car can be specifically tuned for the fuel. Dual fuel systems are a compromise hence less power and economy. Duel fuel systems use up to 30% more gas per litre compared to dedicated tuned cars. I wonder if SGI systems are able to dynamically tune when swapping from Gas to Petrol. I would assume not.


2. Gas burns at higher temperature and it is best to strengthen your motor. Motors not strengthen for Gas can have shorter life.

3. Gas is a dry burning fuel. A small oil bottle can be added to a Gas system to assist with engine lubrication during combustion.

[HSVREDSLED]

Sorry people. but I am very skeptical.

Lets talk about another resource. Water.

5 years ago, if you wanted to put a 5000 litre water tank in your backyard, it would have cost $2000 max. Then, some local councils mandated that all new developments needed a water tank. The number crunches estimated that it would cost the average person a max $3000 to get the install. They then offered a measly rebate. The vote was passed, then "surprise surprise" the cost of an install doubled to 6 grand plus.

Are we so naive that this wont happen with LPG? I can remember (not so long ago) that a conversion would be $2000. Now I am hearing $5000. WTF?

Then, the excise. Sure...the govt has promised it will only go up a certain amount over a few years. Surely the govt wouldnt break a promise?? Or Would they?

Your choice people.

[SSBarney]

Sorry people. but I am very skeptical.

Lets talk about another resource. Water.

5 years ago, if you wanted to put a 5000 litre water tank in your backyard, it would have cost $2000 max. Then, some local councils mandated that all new developments needed a water tank. The number crunches estimated that it would cost the average person a max $3000 to get the install. They then offered a measly rebate. The vote was passed, then "surprise surprise" the cost of an install doubled to 6 grand plus.

Are we so naive that this wont happen with LPG? I can remember (not so long ago) that a conversion would be $2000. Now I am hearing $5000. WTF?

Then, the excise. Sure...the govt has promised it will only go up a certain amount over a few years. Surely the govt wouldnt break a promise?? Or Would they?

Your choice people.

There is no naivety in it, have no doubt the price of Gas conversions is skyrocketing.
There was already a 2 month waiting list and no discounting without a government rebate.
Dont forget the govt 30% health rebate was brought in, only to see an immediate 30% increase in premiums.
IMHO, the gas rebate is a stupid waste of govt funds. They just had to look like they were doing something, because Johnny telling the media "he understands" from his taxpayer funded limo, just wasnt buying votes.

[Swordie]

A year first year university economic student could predict what happens with the LPG subsidy. It literally is simple economics. The government would have been advised behind the scenes.

[asparky]

some feedback.. I've got an 07 caprice with the 6lt and use for personal use, l do about 30k pa. I enquired about gas converstion and had a quote for $4,500. The govt rebate is $2,000 but not available if car is novated or if you claim salary sacrifice for costs.

The unit is claimed to be new technology a direct injection that is claimed to increase power and economy.
Big problem is Holden told me any engine warranty would be void if l had gas installed by a non holden dealer, and of course holden dont do them.
Gas fitter said he would offer an engine warranty for $395 that covered any faults that could be tracked to the converstion or caused by.

A friend who is a Holden mechanic mentioned the plastic intake manifold, I think, on these engines may not handle the heat of the gas.
So all in all to save about $2,500 PA l dont think its worth it, l am not going ahead, maybe when pertol hits $2 l might re consider.
Hope this helps some of you in the same dilema.

[quinny-8]

I have a cross 8 which has a Impco SGI system installed,I have had it for over 12 months ,it uses No more gas than petrol ,average about 17-18 per 100 around town ,has never missed a beat,you could not tell except for the small light on the console if it is running on petrol or lpg,I read a lot of negative comments about lpg which I believe relate to the old style Mixer Valve units ,the modern injection systems do not suffer from these problems,I have done almost 40,000k since the conversation was done.The Impco system is the same as Holden fit in the factory

[V8R]

cant comment on the engine warranty issues, but as for the plastic intake, the 'heat of the gas' is a very very minor variation to running on petrol. the main 'problem' with plastic intakes is backfires, but this is ONLY AN ISSUE with OLD MIXER SYSTEMS, not the newer injected type such as what you are looking at.
if your saving is calculated at 2500pa, thats 12 months and the thing has paid for itself (providing the novated / business use rules dont apply). what other mods can do that? ;)

PS: better start reconsidering, the price of petrol aint dropping any time soon :(

[FORCEFEDGAS]

There are a few cowboys fitting the mixer systems to ls1 coms over here, idiots i say, Anyone getting decent hp from lpg injection ?

[leokerrie]

i have a vortech v2 blower and vsi gas had it re tuned to run gas and goes hard dont know how much power she makes but you can definatley tell gas pulls harder than petrol 108 octaine compared to 98 hi octane ulp car is in my ride look under leokerrie recently did a 2800 km trip and worked out the savings and it was $220 averaged 12.3 litres per 100kms on lpg