Gas conversions

[APS Fston]

Due to all the interest in gas conversions, I will answer some general enquiries here in this thread. Feel free to ask any questions you may have regarding gas here.

EPA approved kits are only required on vehicles manufactured from 2004. Here is a list of models that have approved vapour injection (SVI) kits:

Commodore Alloy tech V6
Rodeo
All 5.7's including VZ fly by wire

At the moment there isnt an approved kit on the 6.0

[team illucid]

Does the higher octane of gas allow you to run higher compression and make more power over PULP?

[vt2vx]

1. can your LS1 kits be sent to other states to be installed?
2. It has to be done by a gas approved installer eg sam, sonny cannot do it?
3. if your kit can be sent elsewhere what is it cost?
4. total cost including instal and tune for LS1?
5. average time for install?

[APS Fston]

There are possibilities for a power gain in building your engine to suit gas, but I think in the long run, if you're a power enthusiast, stick with PULP

[APS Fston]

1. can your LS1 kits be sent to other states to be installed?
2. It has to be done by a gas approved installer eg sam, sonny cannot do it?
3. if your kit can be sent elsewhere what is it cost?
4. total cost including instal and tune for LS1?

The main kits we use ae supplied by Sprint Gas and there are agents around Australia who can supply these kits.
You have to be a member of the AAFRB to install gas, also you need to be an accredited gas installer to purchase kits

[vt2vx]

The main kits we use ae supplied by Sprint Gas and there are agents around Australia who can supply these kits.
You have to be a member of the AAFRB to install gas, also you need to be an accredited gas installer to purchase kits

thanks, call the local gas guy....

hows the tuning bit get done, go to your tuner?

[APS Fston]

You're right. If you live near us, we can install gas to your car and if you're talking about a performance tune, we can cater for that too. Otherwise if you're prepared to bring your car to us in Melbourne, then we can cater to your needs.

Mick

[csv rulz]

I got my VT 3.8l put on dual fuel about 4 weeks ago and since iv had it into the fitter 5 times, when accelerating the car bucks savigly and then when you get off the throttle everything cuts out (no brakes, steering or anything) The fitter said it was getting to much air and leaning out the mixture so they cut holes in my air intake (to my dismay) but it still has not solved the problem.
The other day it was doing it again so i popped the bonnett and the convertor was a block of ice!

What would cause this? how do i fix it?

Any help would be much appreciated

Ps the car runs perfect on Petrol

[SSBarney]

I got my VT 3.8l put on dual fuel about 4 weeks ago and since iv had it into the fitter 5 times, when accelerating the car bucks savigly and then when you get off the throttle everything cuts out (no brakes, steering or anything) The fitter said it was getting to much air and leaning out the mixture so they cut holes in my air intake (to my dismay) but it still has not solved the problem.
The other day it was doing it again so i popped the bonnett and the convertor was a block of ice!

What would cause this? how do i fix it?

Any help would be much appreciated

Ps the car runs perfect on Petrol

Unsure if its relevant on newer cars but on the older cars the freezing could happen if teh convertor was too high, so it doesnt get water thru it before the gas freezes it.
Can be solved by always starting on petrol. I thought any of the decent dual fuel systems had teh automatic start on fuel and switchs over itself to gas.

[APS Fston]

Its sad to say that the majority of problems are to do with the fitting. It sounds like the converter or mixer is too small, the converter could be mounted in an incorrect position (too high) the water plumbing could be incorrect. A problem like this could be easier discussed over the phone if the problem keeps persisting.

Mick

[csv rulz]

Its sad to say that the majority of problems are to do with the fitting. It sounds like the converter or mixer is too small, the converter could be mounted in an incorrect position (too high) the water plumbing could be incorrect. A problem like this could be easier discussed over the phone if the problem keeps persisting.

Mick

Thanks a lot its booked in tomoro bcoz currently it wont run on gas at all. So il pass on this information and see how they go. Should i replace the air intake or am i better off leaving it with holes in it?

Thanks again for your help it is greatly appreciated

[OUTAtheBloo]

Gday

Have you guys done any gas conversions on turbo/supercharged ls1 engines ? Is it something you are likely to do ?

Dan

[vyssbeast]

Just curious if you take care of ecotec models? or more importantly supercharged ecotecs?? i know they recomend to be run on premium and since gas has higher octane levels should it work out ok?

[APS Fston]

Yes we have a ecotec V6 supercharged on LPG, again this was a vapour injection system and had 9 RWKW more on gas.

[Leroy]

Hi Frank, I will be ringing you first thing Thursday Morning as discussed. Please leave me at the top of the list..................haha

(VY SS Wagon)

[darcy]

Are these gas injection systems, adedicated gas system, or can you still run dual fuel?

If dual, is it a seamless transition? Is the fuel still required for ease at start-up as some older systems?

cheers
darcy

[APS Fston]

The system is dual fuel and being that there is no power loss in converting to gas, I dont see the point in dedicated gas, and if you run out of gas, you cant top it up with a bottle of gas like you can a jerry can of fuel.

The biggest reason for power loss when converting your car to gas was the fact that you were required to fit a gas mixer or mixer ring in front of the throttle body. This reduces the power on petrol due to the air intake restriction.

Vapour injection does not require any modifications to the air intake.
You can run this system as gas only but as a dual fuel application it starts and runs on petrol until the vehicles engine coolant reaches a designated temperature, and then changes automatically over to gas.

[sikhabib]

does the lpg kit use the stock pcm to control the gas injectors or does it come with its own computer?

[hogs]

Evening,

Mick, nice to meet you at the Nationals. Have not had the chance to come down for a Dyno run, but will try to soon.
I have been under the impression that the compostite intake manifold does not like lpg?
I was talking to a fella recently that suggested the only way to get good performance was to do direct injection and bypass the throttle body etc?

We have a few reasonable VL Turbo boys here, and one stated that the most power he has got from his has been on lpg, but he is running an alloy intake.

May be speaking shite, but would love some feedback, as let's be honest, the cost of 98 Ron stuff is breaking my budget.

Cheers,

Hogs.

[COOKIE!]

Hey there guy's, Just wondering if it can be set up to run through a OTRCAI?? and is it mafless or what??
I have no idea what the setup is like but what are they like on a decent H&C powered car??

[ButWhy?]

Thanks for this informative thread.

Is there an LPG installer in Sydney anyone would recommend and/or has had a positive experience with?

Based on some comments in this thread and experience of people I have spoken to, (and as obvious as this sounds), correct installation is essential for trouble free LPG conversions. It seems word of mouth referral is the ideal option for finding a good LPG installer.

[ratter]

I've seen a few of the vapour injected conversions that APS has done and they look very impressive.
One one car they where finishing at the time (V6 Rodeo) they could flick the switch between petrol and LPG and the only difference to tell it was a different fuel was when flicked to LPG the petrol injectors stopped clicking when they shut off, the motor did not even change revs at all, totally smooth change over.

[APS Fston]

The Vapour injection system we are using has a computer to control changeover, cold start multipliers etc. The fuel control is mainly controlled by the original PCM but the gas computer has a VE table to calibrate fuel mixtures. This gives us the capability to control WOT, and with cars that havent been tuned with aftermarket software, we are seeing higher kW on gas compared to petrol.

As for high performance vehicles, h/c packages, I dont see this to be a problem. There may be additional costs for larger or dual regulators.

Turbocharged and supercharged application.
We have a number of supercharged V6's and turbocharged BA's that are running fine, but they are all running standard boost, so we are not sure how it would handle in high boost applications.

As for OTRCAI or mafless tuned, this doesnt affect any of the operation of the gas.

We will try and organise some photos of the under bonnet installation of several vehicles as we do them.

[Tommy]

Seems the main issue is that all of these systems use a piggy back computer.
This is becoming less and less desireable as the PCM is controlling more functions now than ever.

[SS220]

Seems to me that this Vapour Injection system is the way to go, however over here in WA (Wait Awhile :wave: ) as soon as I say Gen 3 / LS1 or Vapour Injection I am told it cannot be done :weirdo:.
Any chance you know of anyone in WA that can install this kind of system that you could recommend??

Cheers
Tim

[Ls1 calais]

G'day, does the vapour injection system run a dual injector setup ie eight gas injectors and the original eight petrol injectors or is the gas injected by some sort of mixer in front of the throttle body?
thank's & regards, wayne

[APS Fston]

G'day, does the vapour injection system run a dual injector setup ie eight gas injectors and the original eight petrol injectors or is the gas injected by some sort of mixer in front of the throttle body?
thank's & regards, wayne

Yes there are 8 additional injectors fitted to the intake manifold nearby the original injectors

[APS Fston]

Any chance you know of anyone in WA that can install this kind of system that you could recommend??

Cheers
Tim

I will look into that for you.

Cheers Mick

[Ls1 calais]

Thank's for the info mick, could you tell me where i could get a price for one of these systems in sydney & do you have a particular model number for this kit to suit a vtII LS1 calais.
regards, wayne.

[ratter]

Seems the main issue is that all of these systems use a piggy back computer.
This is becoming less and less desireable as the PCM is controlling more functions now than ever.


I could be wrong but beleive the LPG vapour injection computer is just a Injector interceptor computer, the cars computer still sends the programmed signals, it's just when on LPG the signals pass through the LPG computer and is modified according to the programme written into it by the tuner and then passed on to the LPG injectors. It would not affect any other items relating to what the ECM/BCM/PCM would control, or would not interfere with injector cycle when on petrol.


Correct me if I'm wrong APS Frankston

[Highway]

Can you advise me a Sprint Gas installer in Sydney ?

Any idea when a system will be certified for the VE ?

Thanks for the help.

Mike

[V8R]

I know MED automotive do sprint gas installs..

[Black VU SS ute]

i too would be interested in the gas conversion over here in wa, on my cam only ls1, just need to know of a place that will do the vapour injection system install.

[possum22]

How does the gas injection installation effect LS1's that have been edited?

My concern is about Gas Tank installation? I had a EA Falcon wagon with LPG, the tank was on passenger side mounted north-south & still carry long items by dropping the split rear seats.

[xshore]

Yes there are 8 additional injectors fitted to the intake manifold nearby the original injectors

what happens if a year later your manifold cracks ? is their a warranty ?

[yozza]

Gday, i am interested in converting the old VS V6 banger to gas as i do about 120km a day total travelling to and from work. my question relates to what is the best system, without over capitilising on the car? also what sort of price am i looing at for a conversion? cheers and thanks for any info you are able to supply.

Yozza

[x_er_o]

Do the LS1's run ok on dedicated gas? i want to go this way as space is an issue. and what is a ruff cost for the sequential injection setup

[ScolSS]

Hey Mick,

whats the cost for the dual fuel setup? where does the gas tank sit? i have subs and amps in the boot and dont really wanna lose em. can the tank go in the spare tyre well or under the car at all?

Cheers

[Invasionss]

I'm with SS220 (Tim) & Black VU SS Ute. I want to convert to lpg asap as fuel is starting to become a killer in the hip pocket.

Cost & how long fitment would generally take would be great for us all.

Justin

[SS220]

Just some info for WA guys (and Gals).

Perth Autogas were the only people I could find that did Gas installs on the LS1. And it wasn't cheap, $5300 and a 8-9 month waiting list with a $500 deposit :shock:
This was using a Parnell gas system.
I am not going with it because I don't do enough km's to make it worthwhile.
Hope this helps anyone in WA looking for Gas Concersions for Their LS1.

Tim

[V8R]

thats forking exxy for that system, but rememebr in wa you get the fed. 2k back PLUS the state 1k as well

[CHEV57]

The system is dual fuel and being that there is no power loss in converting to gas, I dont see the point in dedicated gas, and if you run out of gas, you cant top it up with a bottle of gas like you can a jerry can of fuel.

The biggest reason for power loss when converting your car to gas was the fact that you were required to fit a gas mixer or mixer ring in front of the throttle body. This reduces the power on petrol due to the air intake restriction.

Vapour injection does not require any modifications to the air intake.
You can run this system as gas only but as a dual fuel application it starts and runs on petrol until the vehicles engine coolant reaches a designated temperature, and then changes automatically over to gas.

Hi,

I have just had a Sprint Gas Vapour system installed on my VT Gen3 up here in Brisbane. Its only been two days and I am not very happy with what the car is doing. When in Gas, taking off and kickdown are very slow and uneven. I also get a jerking sensation when i really accelarate. When I swap over to petrol it seems to do the same thing,ie. very lathargic and power in uneven bursts. It seems to me that something is blocked somewhere. Has anyone had the same problem on the systems you have fitted? Can you suggest any solutions to my problem? Oh and thirdly my powertrain warning light comes on and stays on about 5-10 mins of driving on LPG...

TIA

[csv rulz]

I got my VT 3.8l put on dual fuel about 4 weeks ago and since iv had it into the fitter 5 times, when accelerating the car bucks savigly and then when you get off the throttle everything cuts out (no brakes, steering or anything) The fitter said it was getting to much air and leaning out the mixture so they cut holes in my air intake (to my dismay) but it still has not solved the problem.
The other day it was doing it again so i popped the bonnett and the convertor was a block of ice!

What would cause this? how do i fix it?

Any help would be much appreciated

Ps the car runs perfect on Petrol


Got the fitter to replumb the whole system, he said an apprentice had plumbed it and it was al wrong, its been a few weeks now since it was done properly and the car is running great, im getting better fuel economy, gained some power and have not had one problem. Thanks for everyones help.

Cheers

[VYSV8]

VX/VY Wagon tank location?

Hi APS Frankston, got any pics of a VX or a VY wagon with the tank in the back facing north/south?

Just interested in how much room it takes up (more or less than the spare wheel on it side)?

[Dr.Gas]

Seems to me that this Vapour Injection system is the way to go, however over here in WA (Wait Awhile :wave: ) as soon as I say Gen 3 / LS1 or Vapour Injection I am told it cannot be done :weirdo:.
Any chance you know of anyone in WA that can install this kind of system that you could recommend??

Cheers
Tim

Yes vapour injection is the way to go and as you have read 5.7's can be done. In Perth contact Auto Edge 0892748083. H

Cheers

Dr.Gas

[APS Fston]

Since this thread was started a lot of things have changed in our business.
We have a new product that we are using in the LPG industry.

The Australian LPG Warehouse is a new company that supplies state of the art gas equipment. Due to the high demand of gas conversions APS Service Centre has started this company last year. APS along with Australian LPG Warehouse are developing this equipment to cater for performance vehicles as well as standard applications.

Australian LPG Warehouse is a technically strong company with 4 development technicians, full time workshop consultant and office staff. The LPG industry has been struggling with technical development of equipment by the supplier, with fitting shops having to pick up the slack and develop these systems on individual vehicles. I am going to take up this opportunity to start a new thread and post up information about these systems and new product developments and also new distributors and fitters as they come on board.

[Dr.Gas]

I'm with SS220 (Tim) & Black VU SS Ute. I want to convert to lpg asap as fuel is starting to become a killer in the hip pocket.

Cost & how long fitment would generally take would be great for us all.

Justin

In Perth contact Auto Edge 0892748083

Cheers

[APS Fston]

In Perth, contact Lovato Autogas 08 9209 3431 and ask for the Eurogas system

[Dr.Gas]

In Perth, contact Lovato Autogas 08 9209 3431 and ask for the Eurogas system

Nice come back Mick!

Cheers!

[Highway]

In Perth, contact Lovato Autogas 08 9209 3431 and ask for the Eurogas system

Where can I go in Sydney to get one of your systems ?

Thanks for the info.

Mike

[APS Fston]

Premier Motors in the Western suburbs. Call Steve on 02 9832 1650

[Dr.Gas]

Premier Motors in the Western suburbs. Call Steve on 02 9832 1650
Yep good call ask for the Tartarini system

[APS Fston]

Tartarini are great systems, but we develop and promote Eurogas and with Keihin injectors, our system stands out from the rest.

But thanks for that Bill.....

For anyone who is interested, here is a list of our distributors:

N.S.W - Premier Autos

S.A - Lovato Autogas

W.A - Lovato Autogas

Victoria - Australian LPG Warehouse.

Most, if not all gas fitting shops in Victoria have our price list, so for any enquiries on pricing, you should be able to contact your local gas fitter for a quote to convert your vehicle to gas. Just be sure to ask for the Eurogas system.

www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au

[Dr.Gas]

Tartarini are great systems, but we develop and promote Eurogas and with Keihin injectors, our system stands out from the rest.

But thanks for that Bill.....

For anyone who is interested, here is a list of our distributors:

N.S.W - Premier Autos

S.A - Lovato Autogas

W.A - Lovato Autogas

Victoria - Australian LPG Warehouse.

Most, if not all gas fitting shops in Victoria have our price list, so for any enquiries on pricing, you should be able to contact your local gas fitter for a quote to convert your vehicle to gas. Just be sure to ask for the Eurogas system.

www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au

Yeah no doubts there Mick you have a good system but with our new injectors I rekon we are neck and neck now. It's about time blokes like us brought some professionalism to our industry. Good one mate!

[HARMSY]

VX/VY Wagon tank location?

Hi APS Frankston, got any pics of a VX or a VY wagon with the tank in the back facing north/south?

Just interested in how much room it takes up (more or less than the spare wheel on it side)?

My understanding is that you can get a dounut tank in the spare wheel well, thus taking up no room, that is assuming you leave the spare out of the car......this suits me because my spare is no good to me because i run 18's and my spare is a 15, also the size of my brakes don't help.

Not sure on how much the tank holds, i'm hopefully heading down to APS to chat about a conversion on my holidays........

wazza

[mnasteski01]

Hi,

Can you tell me if it possible to run a VE SS on gas if so could you provide some pics of the installation..

[Calais V 6.0]

Premier Motors in the Western suburbs. Call Steve on 02 9832 1650

I just called these guys and was told this technology is a long way off?????

He mentioned that it was tested on a heap of subaru's in Europe and they had to strip it off the fleet as it was killing the engines.... Is this rubbish? I thought the liquid technology was now on the market??

I have tried to get details of the system off your own web site as well as those of your installers around Australia, but have not had any luck. It seems as though its not for sale anywhere......


Please tell me its been tested with success and is now available for installation......:confused:

[viper101]

The Vapour injection system we are using has a computer to control changeover, cold start multipliers etc. The fuel control is mainly controlled by the original PCM but the gas computer has a VE table to calibrate fuel mixtures. This gives us the capability to control WOT, and with cars that havent been tuned with aftermarket software, we are seeing higher kW on gas compared to petrol.

As for high performance vehicles, h/c packages, I dont see this to be a problem. There may be additional costs for larger or dual regulators.

Turbocharged and supercharged application.
We have a number of supercharged V6's and turbocharged BA's that are running fine, but they are all running standard boost, so we are not sure how it would handle in high boost applications.

As for OTRCAI or mafless tuned, this doesnt affect any of the operation of the gas.

We will try and organise some photos of the under bonnet installation of several vehicles as we do them.



I have a stock Holden 2002 VX II V6 Supercharged Calais and I'm interested in adding gas. You mentioned you have done V6 Supercharged conversions without any problems, can you tell me what kit I should be asking for and who I should contact in Sydney is it N.S.W - Premier Autos?

This info would really be appreciated as anyone I have spoken to so far says it can't be done.

Thanks.

[JEFF]

What a great thread! Wished I'd read it before putting my deposit down!

I have been sucked into having a venturi system fitted to my VX V6 automatic.
Why? Because the installer (name available via PM) said that an injected system could not be fitted to my VX as it was made before 2004.
Also, I wanted a donut tank as I don't do a lot of k's week to week and I would have liked to keep the boot space.
The installer told me that there is only one type of tank available for the VX and it's a design rule, so there is no option for a donut tank.

I have since called other installers and all agree that all of the above is rubbish!

Can anyone confirm this for sure?

I was also told that with the venturi system, there is no power loss when on petrol. (ie restriction etc).

Commonsense tells me this is rubbish also.