LPG on Ecotec VY

[Swordie]

Can anyone comment on how a VY Ecotec performs on LPG? Will a SGI system reduce engine life? Where are some good places in Melbourne for advice and installations?

I'm tossing up whether it's worth the trouble converting.

[csv rulz]

I put my VT ecotec on dual fuel a while back, i had a few problems to start with but it turned out it was bcoz the installation was done wrong, They plumbed it wrong and my convertor was freezing over. But now its done right the thing runs really well i cant notice the difference in power from gas to petrol. If you do a lot of kms than its worth it with out a doubt. i do 900km a week and its cut my fuel bill by more than half.

Just make sure you do your research on who is fitting it.

[Wonky]

My old man has a VT Acclaim V6 with factory fitted LPG (dual fuel) and it's an accident waiting to happen. On a number of occasions it has just died on him with no warning (nasty when it happens as you're going through an intersection).

Started doing it while still under warranty and the dealer couldn't fix it. Goes fine for weeks then suddenly dies again with no warning. It then starts again immediately. Has been to quite a few LPG 'experts' around Ringwood/Bayswater area and even further afield and cost him a fortune to supposedly get 'fixed' but still does it.

My mum hates even being in it now so for their holiday in Queensland where they are now did they take the big comfy car? No way! They took their second car (little and economical) as they don't trust the VT.

[Mozz]

Unfortunately I too have also been close to people who have had similarly poor experiences as outlined above by Wonky with both factory and aftermarket installs and from different installers, manufacturers.

It seems, when it works well it is great, but people going into the conversion, or purchase of a new car with the LPG option really need to be aware of the many facets to the LPG fuelled vehicle versus petroleum fuelled vehicle and price at the bowser is unfortunately but one of those things to consider.

[OzJavelin]

Unfortunately I too have also been close to people who have had similarly poor experiences as outlined above by Wonky with both factory and aftermarket installs and from different installers, manufacturers.

It seems, when it works well it is great, but people going into the conversion, or purchase of a new car with the LPG option really need to be aware of the many facets to the LPG fuelled vehicle versus petroleum fuelled vehicle and price at the bowser is unfortunately but one of those things to consider.

Very true. I think the LPG subsidy will tempt a lot of people into LPG ownership who don't have the stomach for it. It is not a "set-and-forget" thing .. you need to understand for most cars it is a conversion and you have to live with the consequences.

Rod
(with LPG '69 Javelin and '01 Falcon V8 ute)

[mmciau]

My old man has a VT Acclaim V6 with factory fitted LPG (dual fuel) and it's an accident waiting to happen. On a number of occasions it has just died on him with no warning (nasty when it happens as you're going through an intersection).

Started doing it while still under warranty and the dealer couldn't fix it. Goes fine for weeks then suddenly dies again with no warning. It then starts again immediately. Has been to quite a few LPG 'experts' around Ringwood/Bayswater area and even further afield and cost him a fortune to supposedly get 'fixed' but still does it.

My mum hates even being in it now so for their holiday in Queensland where they are now did they take the big comfy car? No way! They took their second car (little and economical) as they don't trust the VT.


My VS factory fitted has never "stopped" in traffic while on LPG - it is 99% LPG default when I use it

I've had a plug lead fail which cause a problem, but it never 'stopped".

Now done 160K Km in almost 10 years.

My son has an ex government VXS2 Exec with factory fitted and has never "stopped"

Mike

[GR8M8]

Parnell in Laverton are doing my VY Crewman later this year $3600 and no subsidy for me.

Giddyup, Geoff.

[Dacious]

The old man's got a VS factory-fit. It was stalling a bit, but had been sitting for a year while my brother who owned it was O/S. It took a couple goes to fix it, but it's been good since. Needed new plugs in the end.

I've heard the factory Ford LPG-onlys are very hit-and-miss.

[O5BRKY]

My VS factory fitted has never "stopped" in traffic while on LPG - it is 99% LPG default when I use it

I've had a plug lead fail which cause a problem, but it never 'stopped".

Now done 160K Km in almost 10 years.

My son has an ex government VXS2 Exec with factory fitted and has never "stopped"

Mike

Same here with the VX, only stops when I run out of LPG, when I've been to lazy to re-fill!
But yes you need to maintain good plugs/leads and tune ups!

[Swordie]

Same here with the VX, only stops when I run out of LPG, when I've been to lazy to re-fill!
But yes you need to maintain good plugs/leads and tune ups!

Do you know what the factory system is? How is it setup?

[csv rulz]

My old man has a VT Acclaim V6 with factory fitted LPG (dual fuel) and it's an accident waiting to happen. On a number of occasions it has just died on him with no warning (nasty when it happens as you're going through an intersection).

Started doing it while still under warranty and the dealer couldn't fix it. Goes fine for weeks then suddenly dies again with no warning. It then starts again immediately. Has been to quite a few LPG 'experts' around Ringwood/Bayswater area and even further afield and cost him a fortune to supposedly get 'fixed' but still does it.

My mum hates even being in it now so for their holiday in Queensland where they are now did they take the big comfy car? No way! They took their second car (little and economical) as they don't trust the VT.

Thats the problem i was having, it happens when you get off the throttle, very scary if your going down a hil coz you have no brakes. But when i popped the bonnett my converter was a block of ice because it was not plumbed properly and that is wat would have been causing it. I only got it back yesterday after being plumbed properly so fingers croseed. My VT was also bucking savigly under hard acceleration. No problems since i got it back touch wood

[vh-holden]

Mine has died a couple of times, everytime it has been under heavy breaking. Once was turning into the driveway. It conked out and the brakes and steering went really badly. If the tank is full, it seems better.

Once it has been tuned (once i have money for it) i'll report back.

[VYBerlinaV8]

This is why I won't use LPG - the results are too variable. I have a couple of good cars, and have no intention of rooting them by installing LPG, subsidy or not.

[Ako]

Parnell in Laverton are doing my VY Crewman later this year $3600 and no subsidy for me.

Giddyup, Geoff.

Why no subsidy for you?

[SSASSC1]

Guys

If ur going to go down the road of LPG. Steer clear of the crude mixer type lpg systems. They are more trouble than they are worth

I know heaps of guys that have done these on the cheap and have no end of problems. Some problems have ended up in major rebuilds

Biggest short coming with the mixer style lpg systems is sucking all that lpg directly down ur inlet manifold. Think of a pipe bomb going off. Well thats a inlet lpg backfire. Blows airboxes and some manifolds ancillaries to pieces. My mate put a mixer style on his brand new Barra BF. Had a brand new leads, one was dodgy that produced an erroneous spark and boom. Not only did it smash his air box to pieces a busted metal clip got sucked down into the Inlet and got into his cylinder and damaged valves and his bore ( major rebuild - no warranty )

Definitely go either Vapour or liquid injection. :teach:

[O5BRKY]

This is why I won't use LPG - the results are too variable. I have a couple of good cars, and have no intention of rooting them by installing LPG, subsidy or not.


Each to there own.

[GR8M8]

Why no subsidy for you?

Because I use mine for business.

Giddyup, Geoff.

[Wonky]

Thats the problem i was having, it happens when you get off the throttle, very scary if your going down a hil coz you have no brakes. But when i popped the bonnett my converter was a block of ice because it was not plumbed properly and that is wat would have been causing it. I only got it back yesterday after being plumbed properly so fingers croseed. My VT was also bucking savigly under hard acceleration. No problems since i got it back touch wood

I suspect my dad's problem isn't that simple given the number of (supposed) LPG experts he and the dealer have had the car to.

Seems to me (opinion only) that carby cars are fine on LPG if done properly but EFI ones (along with all the other gear like ECMs etc later cars have) can be more problematical.

I had a HZ Statesman with dual fuel and it never missed a beat in approx 100,000 km and in 91 we got a brand new Ti Patrol (non EFI) which we immediately put on LPG and apart from the occasional tune it wasn't touched till about 2 years ago with 350,000+ km on it when the head needed repair. Hasn't been quite the same since that but it has been relegated to tow car only now (horse float) so we haven't worried too much about it.

The initial conversion was $2,200 back in 91 but has paid for itself many times over now.

[Everybody2]

For members who've had Gas installed from years ago...is there much of a price difference to now??? ie. Big grant = big bucks???

[csv rulz]

I suspect my dad's problem isn't that simple given the number of (supposed) LPG experts he and the dealer have had the car to.

Seems to me (opinion only) that carby cars are fine on LPG if done properly but EFI ones (along with all the other gear like ECMs etc later cars have) can be more problematical.

I had a HZ Statesman with dual fuel and it never missed a beat in approx 100,000 km and in 91 we got a brand new Ti Patrol (non EFI) which we immediately put on LPG and apart from the occasional tune it wasn't touched till about 2 years ago with 350,000+ km on it when the head needed repair. Hasn't been quite the same since that but it has been relegated to tow car only now (horse float) so we haven't worried too much about it.

The initial conversion was $2,200 back in 91 but has paid for itself many times over now.

Ever since i got my VT back plumbed correctly it has run like a dream, i got 8.6L per 100km out of it the other week. the thing is so cheap to run, i did like 750km on the weekend n it cost me $38. You barely notice the difference in power only under hard acceleration and its only slight. for anyone who does high KM i recomend it, just make sure you do your research on who is fitting the system.

I missed out on the rebate by like 3 weeks, i am still very pissed off about that, i had no idea there was going to be a rebate or i would have waited.

[Everybody2]

Are you sure you've missed the rebate???

Might be worth giving dpi a call if you haven't already, a bloke called Alex seems to know about all this grant stuff.

Of course, the Federal grant wont be available until mid Oct (or somewhere around there), but it may be worth a phone call...from what I recall, I am sure they were re-imbursing conversions that had occurred just before the grants came into place...but i'm not sure what the cut-off would've been.

I have found there are variying prices for LPG conversions...

I own a Mitsubishi Delica 4x4 2.8L-TDi that I was looking to get converted to Diesel-gas, and on our club forum there were prices varying between $2400 and $4400.

$2000???????

One thing that was interesting, is that alot of places who said "there are only one or two companies that do these conversions" (referring to diesel-gas), but after calling 28 Gas companies around Perth, I found there were at least 6 places that did the conversion...

I say, look around.

btw, we don't acctually own a Holden as yet...but we're looking at purchasing either a VY/VX S-pac Ute, and would like to install the tank in the tray.

I noticed on Redbook, that a few models of the Holden Ute came with the option of LPG (dual fuel)...where would the tank be installed in these cases...?

[O5BRKY]

From what I have heard they install it in the tray behind teh seat area (Holden set up) I'll suss out my Service CD and see what it says and let you know, but maybe you can get it put under the back of the tray if you ask a fitter.

[danfoss5000]

i asked a few companies for quote to convert my LS1 ute - it was $5600. i dont think ill be doing it!

[Ghostrider]

If ur going to go down the road of LPG. Steer clear of the crude mixer type lpg systems. They are more trouble than they are worth

I had a Gas Research mixer system on my vr v6 for over 450k, (Security car). Only serviced it twice in that time. Never had an issue. 2 years car on the road every day.
If worried about blow back blowing up your airbox just put a hole in it and use a sink plug or something like that. If it blows back then the plug pops out relieving the pressue. Only ever had 1 blowback and the plug works a treat. Replaced the leads and all good again.

Father has a gas injection system on his VT V6 over a year now and it has not missed a beat.

[Everybody2]

i asked a few companies for quote to convert my LS1 ute - it was $5600. i dont think ill be doing it!
EEkkk! at that kinda price, I can see why... :(

Was the price so high because it was a Ute???

Just out of curiosity...(I know this isn't the page for it) but what does LS1 mean?

ba2vy: as mentioned, I don't own one...but I can't imagine how small the tank would have to be to make it fit under the rear...goodbye spare too...?

As far as blow-back goes....

With petrol, you can't ignite it and expect a bang (experiements...), would this be the same as gas?

To make a bang, you need to enclose the vapour in a confined space, and one which would allow compression of the gas to increase as it ignites to increase the bang factor of the rest of the vapour...so the chances would be quite low of this happening anyway wouldn't it???

[Everybody2]

Anyone...?

[commodoreking]

Here you go...read all about it!
http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/

[Everybody2]

Cheers...glad to see there's a kit available, which is what I was chasing.

:)

[Swordie]

Seems Holden have a factory system for the VY (non-SGI) from Impco. From my reading of various threads its also seems worth having an oil kit with a LPG system to help reduce value / head wear.

I would be interested to hear what the Taxi industry things of the Ecotec on GAS.

[shep]

I would be interested to hear what the Taxi industry things of the Ecotec on GAS.[/QUOTE]

Try and find how many Taxi's dont have gas there wont be many, even the fords and they don't like gas at all.

Holden have a good system for the Ecotech, Guera Automotive in Sunshine fit it for them, on the North side, they do a good job too, new rear springs are in the kit as well.

[German Statesman]

Okay, misinformation breeds wild stories so to alleviate any concerns and to correct some incorrections :) here's some info from doing LPG conversions for 12 years, and working for four years in Holden dealership service departments.

1. There were some issues with the inlet valve life on Ecotec V6s, but most of these arose from incorrectly tuned lpg systems, and the mixer-only problem where the fuel is mixed in the inlet manifold and runs slightly lean on some cylinders. Sequential injection will fix this problem to a degree, but still expect a measure of valve wear.

2. Read this bit until it sinks in, boys - Tune your gas systems every 10,000kms, change your cadmium spark plugs every 20,000kms (platinums every 100,000kms) and test your plug leads from 80,000kms onwards. Ignition problems are the number one problem with LPG vehicles & everyone blames the fuel.

3. Properley quality your installer - ask for references, customers you can ring, photographs of conversions they have done, the number of years they have been doing conversions. As you could expect there's a few get rich quick merchants doing conversions at the moment, but there's always been snapperheads in the gas industry and they do shocking harm with poor fitment (e.g. freezing convertors - that's TAFE school stuff) and cheap equipment. Keep in mind you're about to give someone upwards of $3000 - would you give it to some boxhead to make your life a misery and your car run like the proverbial bucket??? :( :( :(

4. Specify the same equipment that the car manufacturers use as OEM stuff - there will be a service and parts network to keep the OEMs happy, and its built to their quality standards and durability expectations of their new car buyers.

5. Another big point - find a specialist, not someone who does a conversion as a cash booster to their main business spannering cars. A specialist will have mostly LPG work on his plate, and use spannering as a cash booster - this means he knows more about LPG than anyone. I know of guys in Queensland who have done conversions for over 15yrs and have had the same car owners through three or four changes of cars. Trust me, these guys are the cornerstones of the LPG industry and these are the guys that the regulatory authorities and the rule makers know and trust because they virtually put gas on Fred Flinstone's car and quoted Noah to do the Ark. This experience makes their price irrelevant - you have to spend money to save money in the gas game, and the rates these blokes charge will become a bargain when you've done 500,000kms and virtually spent nothing.

Good luck, tread warily

Cheers

JOHN

[tamero]

well guys i got a WL statesman as a cab (190 kw), since fitting the LPG (direct injection system) done about 60 K and its not too bad. The only complaint I got is that when idling at the lights the car is a little rough. How many passengers think its an 8. Ive talked to other cabs owners with WK WL statesmans and its across the board. However power wise it is noticable but not that much. Its still early days to comment the car has about 110K and when it reaches its cab life it will have around at least 700K +.

[[J]]

Okay, misinformation breeds wild stories so to alleviate any concerns and to correct some incorrections :) here's some info from doing LPG conversions for 12 years, and working for four years in Holden dealership service departments.

1. There were some issues with the inlet valve life on Ecotec V6s, but most of these arose from incorrectly tuned lpg systems, and the mixer-only problem where the fuel is mixed in the inlet manifold and runs slightly lean on some cylinders. Sequential injection will fix this problem to a degree, but still expect a measure of valve wear.

2. Read this bit until it sinks in, boys - Tune your gas systems every 10,000kms, change your cadmium spark plugs every 20,000kms (platinums every 100,000kms) and test your plug leads from 80,000kms onwards. Ignition problems are the number one problem with LPG vehicles & everyone blames the fuel.

3. Properley quality your installer - ask for references, customers you can ring, photographs of conversions they have done, the number of years they have been doing conversions. As you could expect there's a few get rich quick merchants doing conversions at the moment, but there's always been snapperheads in the gas industry and they do shocking harm with poor fitment (e.g. freezing convertors - that's TAFE school stuff) and cheap equipment. Keep in mind you're about to give someone upwards of $3000 - would you give it to some boxhead to make your life a misery and your car run like the proverbial bucket??? :( :( :(

4. Specify the same equipment that the car manufacturers use as OEM stuff - there will be a service and parts network to keep the OEMs happy, and its built to their quality standards and durability expectations of their new car buyers.

5. Another big point - find a specialist, not someone who does a conversion as a cash booster to their main business spannering cars. A specialist will have mostly LPG work on his plate, and use spannering as a cash booster - this means he knows more about LPG than anyone. I know of guys in Queensland who have done conversions for over 15yrs and have had the same car owners through three or four changes of cars. Trust me, these guys are the cornerstones of the LPG industry and these are the guys that the regulatory authorities and the rule makers know and trust because they virtually put gas on Fred Flinstone's car and quoted Noah to do the Ark. This experience makes their price irrelevant - you have to spend money to save money in the gas game, and the rates these blokes charge will become a bargain when you've done 500,000kms and virtually spent nothing.

Good luck, tread warily

Cheers

JOHN

Brilliant post John,

Thanks very much :bow:

Sparky

[V8R]

top post john, the industry needs more ppl to spread ACTUAL info rather than mis-info based on rumours, 20yr old gear and shonky backyarders..

[saaz]

John, most sensible post on lpg I have seen on here. I have had two cars with older style systems on them. The XF 3.3 went 470,000kms when I sold it and the VQ 5 litre statesman had 350,000kms on it when sold. The top ends were not like new, but still went quite ok. I think most people with complaints about lpg and reduced valve life etc etc would not even think about taking a petrol motor to these sort of distances.

[German Statesman]

Cheers fellas,

I started off in the LPG industry in the middle of the Gulf War back in '91, and I've been involved with the factory-backed Holden LPG options on VP, VR, VS, VT, VX, VY and VZ either in an LPG workshop or Holden dealership. I still know the old dogs you can rely on to send people to for LPG work & know it won't come back & bite you on the arse.

My job entails me being in the outback three to four days a week, but if you PM me with any LPG question, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

As Rachel Hunter once said - it won't heppen overnight, but it will heppen. :)

Cheers

JOHN

[Everybody2]

Can't PM as yet, so i'll have to throw this into a thread...

My wife is getting a Maloo R8 Z series, but I don't want to pay for the fuel costs, and she really doesn't give two hoots about performance (ie. it "Looks Good"), so I was thinking LPG conversion might be good as the Govt will give mula back to our pockets.

I've heard in general, that if it can run on ULP, it can run on LPG...does it bascially come down to poor adjustment on the fitters behalf that could cause problems??? (ie. valve issues)

[Danv8]

Can't PM as yet, so i'll have to throw this into a thread...

My wife is getting a Maloo R8 Z series, but I don't want to pay for the fuel costs, and she really doesn't give two hoots about performance (ie. it "Looks Good"), so I was thinking LPG conversion might be good as the Govt will give mula back to our pockets.

I've heard in general, that if it can run on ULP, it can run on LPG...does it bascially come down to poor adjustment on the fitters behalf that could cause problems??? (ie. valve issues)

If you are going for a LPG conversion LPG injection is the only way to go.

Although seeing a HSV on LPG makes baby jesus cry.

But then again if I was getting a HSV performance I would give a hoot about or I would be plugging around an a V6 S pack ute instead. :-)

[Everybody2]

Thanks Danv8, i've heard a few people say they'll kill me if we put it on LPG...but, whatever needs to be done to keep the baby will be what'll happen.

We've found a few newies, but not sure about the price.

You can never seem to tell with carsalesmen whether or not what they're saying is for real...:hmmm:

[O5BRKY]

It's only a HSV, so whack it on LPG.:D

[Everybody2]

From what i've heard there are a few ppl running the LS2 on the LS1 Vapour injection kit...but it needs to be scruitineered and certified that the kit is OK to run on the LS2.

I believe this takes someone to pay the money to have it done, so the kit can become available for the LS2.

or something to that effect.....