Another question about speeding...

[Capt.LS2]

G'day again all,

I finished night shift this morning at 5am and was driving home sitting on 105km/h on cruise control in a 100km/h zone when I got the red and blues flashing behind me.

I started digging around for my licence expecting either RBT or just a random check because of the car I drive. Anyway the officer comes up to my window, asks for my licence and says that he had me clocked at 118km/h!! :eek:

I said that there was no way I was doing that speed and there must be a mistake. He went on to explain how their equipment is calibrated every 3 months blah blah and I replied well there is a reason for that then because they go out of calibration! I was getting a little tired and cranky after working all night so patience was running out however I remained as courteous as possible.

I asked for evidence and said I would challenge it in court as I was adamant that I was " just doing over 100" to which he replied he couldn't show me and if I was doing over 100 then I was speeding anyway(technically correct).

It all finished with him just giving me a warning to slow down but I felt angry that I had no proof really apart from my word on the speed I was doing. If I did have to fight such an accusation what chance would one have??

I suppose having them verify the accuracy of their equipment would be a start.....just curious as to what would happen.

Thanks,

Alex.

[OLS108]

yeah this happened to me as well although i was speeding ( 80 in a 60 zone) the way he was able to "estimate" my speed was by his Speedo:rolleyes:
Now i was Sure that he would have to have a Witnessing Officer to watch his speed as we Tried to Match me speed, Surely a Police officer could Not Watch his Speedo and watch me at the same time ???

I Paid the fine anyway as he went easy and got me for 75 in a 60 zone..

[8throttlebodies]

first rule... NEVER EVER admit your speed.. start from there..

it gives you a room for some defense if you DO decide to take it to court..

good luck

8tb

[8throttlebodies]

And just another thing.. Check the statute about what is an "approved speed measure device"... and estimate doesnt count :)

8tb

[VX2VESS]

easy ask him to get in the car, hit resume and he can see what it was set at himself!!!!!

[8throttlebodies]

easy ask him to get in the car, hit resume and he can see what it was set at himself!!!!!

Does resume work after the ignition is turned off???

8tb

[Capt.LS2]

Does resume work after the ignition is turned off???

8tb

Not for me it doesn't......thanks for your info too btw.

On another note...is it acceptable for the driver to exit the vehicle and walk up to the police car or is that a no no? Also is it expected that the engine and ignition be turned off whilst they deal with you?

[vh-holden]

On another note...is it acceptable for the driver to exit the vehicle and walk up to the police car or is that a no no? Also is it expected that the engine and ignition be turned off whilst they deal with you?

I've hopped out of my car before. No bullet wounds to the chest here!!! Then again, the policeman had pulled over another car and hadn't finished with them. No way was i sitting in a car with no aircon while he took his time.

[8throttlebodies]

1.. acceptable for you to approach them...
I think it is more the "way" you do it.. Dont been seen to be aggresive.
Personally, i always get out of the car, and stand off the road (ie. at the boot or on the sidewalk), and I never get back in my car..

2. there is no LAW to stat you must stop the car.. its more about "doing a runner" in their eyes.... again.. stand your ground, and dont be intimidated.

Best advice.. get informed about the road laws.....
It only takes a few hours to collect and read all of the relevant laws in your state, and there are a bunch of things that instantly become handy :)

The last 3 times i have been pulled over.. (i MAY have been speeding in there eyes).... i have just been issue with either a warning, a canary (exhaust too loud.. my fault , i gave it a gut full as i left the scene, and got EPA mail a few days later), and another warning...

They don't seem to like informed individuals...

ALL that being said... the forth last incident, i was done for 80 in a 60, and took it on the chin..... its all about the circumstances of the incident..

Just get informed :)

8tb

8tb

[AndrewW]

On another note...is it acceptable for the driver to exit the vehicle and walk up to the police car ?

Ok here, but don't try it if you are on holidays in the states unless you want to end up with your face in the road with a 9mm pointed at the back of your head ...

[Holdn Tease]

I was pulled over driving home from Korumburra. I was doing about 135 and I spotted the cop car pulled over in the distance. I braked to a reasonable speed and as I passed him, he pulled out. So I pulled over, got out and actually met him at his car window and handed him my license to his surprise. He said he'd clocked me at 117, (thank God ha ha) and if there was a reason I was speeding. YES OF COURSE!!! DUH!!

I proceeded to tell him why I was speeding, to which he decided to reduce the fine for me. I asked him to please let me off with a warning, reminding him of my reason for speeding. (f*%kwit ex boyfriend)

Thankfully the officer was having a good day and let me go with a stern warning to perhaps pull over somewhere for a coffee to calm down before continuing the journey home to murder the f*%kwit ex boyfriend.

So I guess it depends on who you are, whether its ok to get out of the car or not....

[BLACK1]

What are the rules if snapped by a speed camera whilst on the wrong side of the road at the beginning of an overtaking manouver if.....

The front of my car was just behind the rear of the other car when snapped.

The photo shows both cars very clearly....

[JimmyXR6T04]

i went past an undercover SS a while ago.. i was going rather quickly, and he pulled me up. Anyways, he said straight out that he was estimating my speed to be around 140km/h.. i told him i didn't know what it was (although it was more like 160km/h.. it was in a 110 zone, and he only got me for <15km/h over. Which was a good relief!

I really didn't bother arguing with him, as i knew i was in the wrong, and that i should be punished in some way. It would be different if i knew my cruise was set and i was only doing 105km/h... i'd get peeved off too!

[sirhc]

guess u guys kow this..however coming back from syd on the new england in my mx5 got flashed by on coming traffic...slowed down ..low and behold police car...said to my passenger these guys sometimes travel in pairs..guess what there was another behind him about 1kl ...my lucky day

[Dane VN V8]

Tell me about it, your speeding a little you see one highway patrol car you speed up a bit to get out of sight and another one comes :eek: . Luckily I don't drive like a idiot anymore considering I only have one point left :errr:

Dane

[OPPYLOCK]

I got done about a month ago picking my brother up from the airport in his 06 wrx.
There were four of us in the car (wife, brother and his girlfriend).
A month later my brother recieves a fine for 94 in a 70. I thought it was funny until he checked the date and worked out it was me.
Now you tell me how I exceeded the limit by 24km with my brother the tight ass watching like a hawk driving his new car, and two girls in the back who don't mind telling you what they think of your driving.

My veiw: I was picked up by a mobile unit within 50m of a change of speed zone, there were at least four other vehicles around me within 200m, it was on the outward bound side of a residential area and this section of road is not classified as a black spot. All no no's when operating a Liedar Detection Unit (how could we not trust it with a name like that).

The reality:If you want information on the unit that picked you up its $50 and filling out a form for the Freedom of Information Act and even then they do not have to supply you with everything you request.There is a six month wait for this info so you probably won't have it by the time you go to trial. $10 for a photo that may have been taken whenevever they felt like it. If you take the matter to court and lose, you will, (29 year old male speeding in a black wrx vs mr upstanding police officer trying to save the world) you then have to pay the court costs incurred by the police (they are funded by our taxes and don't like losing, think $$$$).

Conclusion: If this was a private business it would be the fastest growing, most profitable industry in the country.Its not going to change anytime soon. It does not save lives and if I am ever in the situation where the cops need my assisstance they can go get F#?*ked.:mad:

[Capt.LS2]

There is a bit of interesting reading on the www about radar and laser speed detectors and where they can be susceptible to gross errors depending on location.

One such place for example is around airports where there are strong electric/radar etc fields constantly going.

Where I got pulled over was Airport Drive at Brissy Airport :rolleyes: So therein may lie the problem. Now this bloke may have hit 118km/h himself when he was trying to catch me doing 105km/h. I was watching his headlights coming closer and closer until they were accompanied by the red and blues.

Oh well at least I only got a warning but it has prompted me to do more searching online to see what rights I have in future situations so as not to get shoved around by them.

Make no mistake though, some of my best mates are Highway Patrol in Sydney and I think the majority do a good job but there are always smart asses out there abusing their position of power which piss me off. :flamin:

[Vulture]

What are the rules if snapped by a speed camera whilst on the wrong side of the road at the beginning of an overtaking manouver if.....

The front of my car was just behind the rear of the other car when snapped.

The photo shows both cars very clearly....

Well done, you're off that one. Take it to court. If there are two cars in the pic you're in the clear.

[Devil CV8]

Make no mistake though, some of my best mates are Highway Patrol in Sydney
sounds like it is time to catch up with your mates....... surely they will give some unofficial off the record, we didn't say this,,,,,,, advice....

[Capt.LS2]

sounds like it is time to catch up with your mates....... surely they will give some unofficial off the record, we didn't say this,,,,,,, advice....

Possibly, but I think the legislation and equipment used may be different between QLD and NSW. Can't hurt though.

[Mozz]

Ok here, but don't try it if you are on holidays in the states unless you want to end up with your face in the road with a 9mm pointed at the back of your head ...

It's actually worse than that scenario with the probability that the weapon will be a 40cal semi auto GLOCK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_22

The 22 when used with factory rounds have around the hitting power of a .45 calibre which is sweet......

[SandmanUte]

I'm sick of revenue raising being done under the pretext of road safety.
How many times do you see a bunch of flatfoots manning a radar on a good stretch of road, usually downhill, or where the speed zone changes, having a ticket writing party. Where they are pulling up so many people you have to wait for your turn to get your ticket.
What does speed cameras do for road safety??? Stop a speeding driver???
If motorist stuck together we could stop this revenue raising.
Start a movement called MAFIA. Motorists Against Fines In Aust.
All you need is unity. If everyone stops paying all the BS fines and takes them all to court, then pleads not guilty, then every case would have to have a date set for a hearing, it would take no time to clog the courts for years. At this point the governments would have to revise their thinking on revenue raising.
It would take thousands of people to join and do this. But then, one only has to look at the amount of speeding tickets that are written over a holiday period!!
In this modern day of internet, it would be easily possible to co-ordinate such a large number of people and set a date to start.
It would have to be a nominal fee to join, which would be used for a legal team for advice etc.

[Vulture]

I could see that working. Unfortunately, people don't think of the greater good only themselves...

[Garth]

I had a similar incident to Capt.LS2. Heading north on the Pacific Hwy around Lindfield and was tailing a CV8. Round a bend and Im done by camera's and pulled over. I tried to argue that there's no way the camera could have got my car if I was behind the CV8 and it was travelling either faster than me or the same speed. The cop didnt even try to argue, he just said it was registered on the camera. I had to take it on the chin.
Anyone else ever thought they got the car in front them and not your own car even though you got pinched?

[Devil CV8]

I had a similar incident to Capt.LS2. Heading north on the Pacific Hwy around Lindfield and was tailing a CV8. Round a bend and Im done by camera's and pulled over. I tried to argue that there's no way the camera could have got my car if I was behind the CV8 and it was travelling either faster than me or the same speed. The cop didnt even try to argue, he just said it was registered on the camera. I had to take it on the chin.
Anyone else ever thought they got the car in front them and not your own car even though you got pinched?
If you were pulled over it wouldn't be a camera, more likely a LIDAR.

Check the T.I.N, does it mention what was used to detect speed. If you were targeted with LIDAR, then you don't have much of a chance, if it was RADAR, then the operating pocedures state there must not be another vehicle within 200m.

[craig2510]

If you were pulled over it wouldn't be a camera, more likely a LIDAR.

Check the T.I.N, does it mention what was used to detect speed. If you were targeted with LIDAR, then you don't have much of a chance, if it was RADAR, then the operating pocedures state there must not be another vehicle within 200m.


Never heard of that one before, they didn't mention that during radar training.
Best chance of getting of radar is to challenge the fact that they may not have tested the radar with tuning forks. They have tuning forks which emulate a certain speed which are used to check calibration.
Up here we check them every time we use them and have to make notes in our notebokk to that effect.
Not many jurisdictions use radar anyway, it's all laser.
And your speed can be estimated as long as there are 2 police members in car doing the estimate.

Most importantly, if you are speeding cop it on the chin.

[8throttlebodies]

[QUOTE=craig2510;702684]
And your speed can be estimated as long as there are 2 police members in car doing the estimate.

QUOTE]

Point us to the legistlation that say an "estimate is an approved speed measure device"... please

Also, refer to the Federal legislation for "weights and measures" and show us where an "estimate" is pattern approved and traceable (legal words in that document)

thank you :)

8tb

[Devil CV8]

Never heard of that one before, they didn't mention that during radar training.
it's in the NSW radar operators handbook..

[zorro]

Most importantly, if you are speeding cop it on the chin.

tell me how police on the side of the road can 'estimate' the speed you are travelling, do we have ROBOcops in oz that we don't know of??
Pardon the smart ass comment I cop a fair fine on the chin but when you get 3 cops having a chat on the footpath and see you drive past and decide to pull you over with no gun reading and all give you varying 'estimates' (and I was not speeding) you have to ask yourself where the justice is.

[8throttlebodies]

There is such a thing the magisrates will try and use, called PRIMA FACIE..... its latin.. its means "on face value".. and prima facie is a legal term ... just be careful.. "prima facae" isnt adherence under either of the laws that I mentioned above :)

Refer wikipedia for a more detailed explaination of "prima facie".....

And Im all for taking it on the chin, when necessary, but that isnt always :)

8tb

DISCLAIMER... i am not a lawyer.., just an IT geek who likes to read legislation, that has specific meaning to the things i do :)

[craig2510]

[QUOTE=craig2510;702684]
And your speed can be estimated as long as there are 2 police members in car doing the estimate.

QUOTE]

Point us to the legistlation that say an "estimate is an approved speed measure device"... please

Also, refer to the Federal legislation for "weights and measures" and show us where an "estimate" is pattern approved and traceable (legal words in that document)

thank you :)

8tb
Traffic act in the NT

PART VII – PROSECUTIONS OF OFFENCES, PENALTIES, &c.

38. Proof of speed

(1) A person shall not be found guilty of an offence of or relating to exceeding a prescribed speed limit solely on the evidence of one witness to the effect that, in the opinion of the witness, the person was driving the vehicle at a speed faster than that permitted for that vehicle.

(2) A complaint for an offence of or relating to driving a vehicle at a speed exceeding a prescribed speed limit shall specify the speed at which, or faster than which, it is alleged the defendant drove the vehicle.

(3) Evidence may be given in any proceedings in a court for the purpose of showing the speed at which a vehicle was travelling at a particular time by reference to the calculation of the speed of that vehicle as shown on a traffic infringement detection device and, where evidence is so given, it shall be prima facie that the vehicle was travelling at the speed so calculated at that time.


Note part 1, it states only not guilty if one person witnesses, hence I wrote 2 members. This is hardly ever used, I have never done it myself.

Each state/territory has its own rules and they do over-ride the australian road rules. There is a pecking order and it is traffic act, traffic rgulations and australian road rules. Thats why there is no speed limit in Territory as it is written in the ARR but over-ridden by the traffic act which states:

77. Default speed limit

(1A) The default speed limit referred to in rule 25(2) does not apply in the Territory.

(1B) Subject to subregulation (1C), the default speed-limit applying to a driver for a length of road in a built-up area within the Territory is 60 kilometres per hour.

What may ring true and certain states may not be case elsewhere!

As for the weights and measures its totally irrelevant in this case

[8throttlebodies]

[QUOTE=8throttlebodies;702733]
Traffic act in the NT

PART VII – PROSECUTIONS OF OFFENCES, PENALTIES, &c.

38. Proof of speed

(1) A person shall not be found guilty of an offence of or relating to exceeding a prescribed speed limit solely on the evidence of one witness to the effect that, in the opinion of the witness, the person was driving the vehicle at a speed faster than that permitted for that vehicle.

(2) A complaint for an offence of or relating to driving a vehicle at a speed exceeding a prescribed speed limit shall specify the speed at which, or faster than which, it is alleged the defendant drove the vehicle.

(3) Evidence may be given in any proceedings in a court for the purpose of showing the speed at which a vehicle was travelling at a particular time by reference to the calculation of the speed of that vehicle as shown on a traffic infringement detection device and, where evidence is so given, it shall be prima facie that the vehicle was travelling at the speed so calculated at that time.


Note part 1, it states only not guilty if one person witnesses, hence I wrote 2 members. This is hardly ever used, I have never done it myself.

Each state/territory has its own rules and they do over-ride the australian road rules. There is a pecking order and it is traffic act, traffic rgulations and australian road rules. Thats why there is no speed limit in Territory as it is written in the ARR but over-ridden by the traffic act which states:

77. Default speed limit

(1A) The default speed limit referred to in rule 25(2) does not apply in the Territory.

(1B) Subject to subregulation (1C), the default speed-limit applying to a driver for a length of road in a built-up area within the Territory is 60 kilometres per hour.

What may ring true and certain states may not be case elsewhere!

As for the weights and measures its totally irrelevant in this case


thank you for you time
... as far as i could find, thesespecific laws dont apply here in Victoria... but i notice your use of the words "prima facie" in your laws as well...

Take note everyone...

8tb

[craig2510]

It was good that you questioned it because I couldn't remember were the bloody thing was in legislation. Was like a homework assignment :)
And it made me remember how much I hate reading legislation!

[8throttlebodies]

It was good that you questioned it because I couldn't remember were the bloody thing was in legislation. Was like a homework assignment :)
And it made me remember how much I hate reading legislation!


I appreciate your effort..
thanks again.

8tb