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View Full Version : Holden Considers Torana Comeback



Knight Phlier
18-08-2006, 12:03 PM
It would be awesome for Holden to build a V6 Torana, and then for HSV to build a TT36 Torana, especially if it was built in Oz.....

From Drive.com.au website:

"
The Holden Commodore's days as Australia's best-selling car could be numbered. Denny Mooney, Holden's managing director, has told Drive that Holden's next-generation family sedan could be smaller and lighter and powered by four- and six-cylinder engines.
It would be similar in size to the Torana TT36 hatch concept displayed at the Sydney motor show last year. And it may be in production by as early as 2010.
Rising fuel prices and a buyer swing towards smaller cars has put the concept of a mid-sized rear-wheel-drive sedan, first floated by Holden in early 2005, back on the agenda of General Motors.
"I've been saying for a long time that GM has to do a [BMW] 3 Series sedan, one that is affordable ... as I think about Holden's manufacturing plant and our future model line-up I feel strongly that having a car like that would be dynamite for us," Mooney says.
"I would be naive to sit here and say, 'Commodore will always be Holden's core product.' I should give you that answer but I'm telling you realistically that is a possibility that I wouldn't want to ignore."
Holden's Elizabeth manufacturing plant in South Australia builds about 140,000 Commodore sedans and derivatives each year for local sale and export. Holden employs 8300 workers directly and indirectly provides jobs for more than 20,000 across Australia.
However, Commodore sales are at a 12-year low and sales of large cars have been in decline for more than a decade - despite the past four years of record sales in the overall Australian market.
Mooney is keen to maintain Holden's manufacturing viability in the face of softening large-car demand. And complementing, or supplanting, Commodore production with a smaller rear-drive sedan is what he calls his "insurance policy".
"We'll get feedback from the market here on [the VE Commodore] and we'll start to decide what we want to do next ... It'll probably be six to eight months then we'll start cracking on ... Trying to get momentum [within GM] around a smaller performance sedan may depend on what happens [with VE].
"You could say 10 years from now it could become our core product. We could easily have a Vectra-sized [medium-sized], rear-wheel-drive performance sedan [as a Commodore replacement], or they could both be in the portfolio."
The vehicle would likely go up against the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Mazda6 and be powered by four- and six-cylinder engines. But not a V8. "As soon as you start trying to put a V8 into [the requirements] the car starts to look a lot like the [VE Commodore]," Mooney says. "So you do a four-cylinder and at a maximum a V6 and you get the packaging right. Remember, we're not looking for big because we've already got big but it's got to be a legitimate sedan."
The Torana is unlikely to share its underpinnings with the VE Commodore and it could be built here or by GM Daewoo in South Korea. "Build it here?" Mooney says. "That's a possibility. Depending on how the market shifts and if in five or six years we would have available capacity ... It depends on whether our plant is flat-out [building Commodores and derivatives] or not. If we have the capacity, we would want to build it, for a variety of reasons."
It may, however, be cheaper to build the car in Korea but Mooney did not speculate on that. "I want the car whether we build it or not."
The idea of a small rear-wheel-drive vehicle was floated by Holden with the Torana TT36 hatch concept early last year. Initially thought of as a stylistic forerunner of the VE Commodore, the concept's true significance quickly emerged.
"[Torana] did what I wanted it to do, which was create more energy inside of General Motors about thinking about doing a car like that," Mooney says.
It seems the Torana is back on the agenda. Mooney believes US acceptance of rear-wheel-drive - crucial if the vehicle is to get the green light - is growing.
"I see a lot of opportunity for GM with a smaller rear-wheel-drive performance sedan. I think it could be significant volume.""

SS_Fury
18-08-2006, 12:21 PM
torana made in korea, please god no

Knight Phlier
18-08-2006, 12:50 PM
I think Holden well know if they want to make the car a success here then they would have to make the car here in Australia. Otherwise it won't be called a Torana as people will loathe it as unoriginal.

Torana may not be on the same level field as Holden are with their SE Asia built cars. The SE Asia cars are built and sold in a market where the consumer wants the cheapest car to get from A-B, hence the price is the biggest selling point of the car, not the quality or origin. With the cars the Torana would be pitched to compete with (Liberty, Accord etc) the quality and origin are more important factors than with the sub 20K cars IMO. Anyhow I hope it is an Aussie built car - a Korean built car should never be called a Torana!

Dacious
18-08-2006, 12:56 PM
I don't have any problem with it built in Korea, as long as hey don't shut up shop in Australia to do it. What has held back product in the past from Korea is experience and budgets - you can't build Supecars without starting on economy cars, and the money the Koreans have had to work with, and the design experience has not been available to them. Like the Japanese they have had to learn by copying.

Now that Holden has input, the products coming from there are likely to improve both for form and function, like the Captiva (much as I hate pretend SUVs). If Holden engineers the Torana, specs the suspension and designs the toolling to build it, there is no reason it can't be made anywhere as a quality vehicle. Korean workers are just as motivated as Japanese to do a good job.

The top-rating vehicle in this years' JD Power ratings is the top of the range Hyundai V6 in the 'States - beats all the US, Euros and Japanese cars in owner surveys, and they consider not only economy but quality and function. And has won several car comparisons with the likes of Toyotas, Mazdas and Hondas, as has the Getz. I wouldn't buy one, but shows they've come a long way from the cheap-quality, rattly, wobbly things of the past.

But it would be great to see it built here. Me and the missus would probbly line up for a V6 hatch if it was halfway decent.

GEN III
18-08-2006, 01:29 PM
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My 2cents
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Holden.

I know your going to read this sooner or later.

Tell your superiors to build the Torana. If you basically make it look like the concept car without all the "bling" with same interior styling etc.. as VE, you will have world wide sex appeal. People buy cars on looks initially, that car is sex on wheels. Mixed with a twin or single turbo V4/V6 you are looking at something amazing.

Honestly I would start worrying about Toyota. Those Yaris's are selling like nothing I have ever seen. Even KIA’s and Hyundai’s are raising there game and sales are picking up, if cars on the road are of any indication.

If it has to be built in Korea, so be it. Just have a hand full of Australians live and work there that are employed to watch / train and check for the same quality standards that we have here. People will get over the whole made in Korea thing. If it gets it on the road cheaper and faster, make it happen.
The VE’s ok for what market it's aimed at, but I simply cannot see Holden stay in Australia (making money) in the long term if we keep building laxo barges.


I just thought you would want a real response from a real consumer. Not just a statistic.

Yes I would buy one as well. Mid to late $20's for a base model or early to mid $30's for a sports version. As long as it's RWD and the exterior looks like the Torana or SSX I'm sold. :love2:

Jac001
18-08-2006, 01:32 PM
Interesting how times have changed, in the 60's, japanese cars had a poor rap, now they are the benchmark...

Hyundai is copying toyata success and is laying the platform for quality cars biult out of korea...

The poor rap deawoo has will disappear within 10 years time...


The question is will it be economically viable to biuld this mid size car here in australia (either in conjuction with or replacing the commodore range).

If they make a new mid size rear wheel driven car i hope they call it something other than torana...

Fnomna
18-08-2006, 01:40 PM
"We'll get feedback from the market here on [the VE Commodore] and we'll start to decide what we want to do next ... It'll probably be six to eight months then we'll start cracking on ... Trying to get momentum [within GM] around a smaller performance sedan may depend on what happens [with VE].

Looks like it may be one or the other - Commodore OR Torana.

VX2VESS
18-08-2006, 01:45 PM
since 2000 koren built cars like the hyundia are built better than the aussie cars and are cheaper. EG elantra somewhat ugly looking but not badly made and lots of features for under 20K. getting better all the time, looks still need some work.

Comparision had my holden 6 years, and also a excel.

Holden has had almost everything replaced on it except the gearbox so far, some things more than once.

Hyundia has has zero things replaced on it. keeps on going strong.

How many diff, motors, boxes, PS pumps etc has holden had to replace since the ls1 came out, hate to think they all seem to fail early.

based on that i'd say the korens are way ahead, so why not make them there if they can do it better and cheaper. Job for us but if they can't manage to do build well here not much choice.

If a VE was $10K cheaper to purchase sounds good to me.

XLR8 V8
18-08-2006, 01:48 PM
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=59583&highlight=torana