Aurion - best in power and economy

[CalaisOwner]

29 August 2006
AURION DELIVERS BEST-IN-CLASS POWER AND ECONOMY

Toyota Australia today confirmed its new Aurion V6 will have the most power and best fuel economy of the Aussie 'big six' family cars.
The company has advised the Department of Transport and Regional Services that the Aurion 3.5-litre V6 will deliver 200kW of power on regular unleaded petrol (ULP) and 204kW on premium unleaded petrol (PULP).

This will make Aurion the most powerful vehicle ever sold by Toyota in Australia – and more powerful than its naturally aspirated six-cylinder competitors in the large-car market.

It will also be the most fuel-efficient six-cylinder car in the segment, consuming just 9.9 litres/100km, based on the official combined cycle.

Aurion's fuel economy will be at least nine per cent better than the top-selling six-cylinder car in the segment.

Toyota Australia will build Aurion at its Altona plant in Melbourne. The vehicle will go on sale later this year and will be Euro IV-compliant for emissions.

Toyota Australia senior executive director sales and marketing David Buttner said Aurion's unique combination of performance and fuel efficiency would set a new standard in the Aussie 'big six' market.

"Aurion will be a great alternative to the current range of six-cylinder family cars," Mr Buttner said. "Among the Aussie six-cylinder family cars, it will be the leader in performance, delivering the power demanded by Australia's large-car motorists.

"At the same time, it will achieve fuel efficiency that can't be matched by its large six-cylinder competitors."

Other locally built six-cylinder models in the large-car segment develop maximum outputs of between 175kW and 195kW.

[Danv8]

Bah just another FWD whitegood really.

Toyota needs some RWD cars without the Lexus badge.

[SSBarney]

Aurion Delivers Best-in-class Power And Economy But Still Butt Ugly With No Style

[stew297]

heh, it might 'deliver' that power, but will it get it to the ground? thats another thing.. i doubt it will be leader in performance

[VT LS1]

I went down to the old peoples home and told them about the 204 kw toyota, their response was :party:


Then again, i told them that the porridge tomorrow was going to have sultanas in it and the response was :party: :6bow: :party: :drool: :drool: :drool: (those last three always drool)

[paulvdb]

I wondered how they were going to play this game. My guess was
1) It won't be less than the 4-cyl Camry as that would be embarrasing
2) It won't be more than the Falcon as that would be embarrasing

So that left them with a range of 9.9 to 10.2 to play with - not much. I reckon they just picked the lower figure and set the car up to achieve the figure. People who buy a 4-cyl Camry won't even know that they are being duped. To my mind, if you're over 60, you should wait till the Aurion is as cheap as the Camry (less than 12 months I'd say) and buy the Aurion rather than the Camry which is clearly now a rip-off.

I still can't wait to see the drivers trying to work out how to get 200kw to the ground in the wet via the front wheels. Imagine the grannies trying to explain away their "sustained loss of traction" when they go to court:burnout:

[lowriding]

Whats up with the further information contact at the bottom of ur post?
Are you a pathetic Toyota salesman?

:yup: surely this fellow is now officially a massive TROLL! My suggestion to "calaisowner" is to buy the Camry of his dreams, though i'm thinking he or she may already have a company supplied one ;)

[Danv8]

:yup: surely this fellow is now officially a massive TROLL! My suggestion to "calaisowner" is to buy the Camry of his dreams, though i'm thinking he or she may already have a company supplied one ;)


No mate its a serious car! Im not going to get an SS-V no more Aurion all the way.

All the way to the nearest cliff and drive off it.
:headbang:

[VT LS1]

Have a look at his other posts, he deffinatly starts the day with 'oh what a feeling'.
Perhaps his name should change from Calais Owner to Tokyo Rose......

[Vulture]

Is this the fallacy of peak power? I'd be interested to know what the average power and torque is. Will also be interesting when the Falcon and Commodore whip it in performance despite its "200Kw".

[VT LS1]

Saw one on the dyno, had 0rwkw, perhaps they should have turned it around:lmao:

God I crack myself up....

[BlueVZSS]

heh, it might 'deliver' that power, but will it get it to the ground? thats another thing.. i doubt it will be leader in performance

The Toyota site says that hot on the heels of the base model release will be a "sports-tuned supercharged 3.5 litre version".:eyes:

[VT LS1]

The Toyota site says that hot on the heels of the base model release will be a "sports-tuned supercharged 3.5 litre version".:eyes:



Yep, but it has the same rwkw as the na version, and a diesel polo for that matter

[Wezza]

The Toyota site says that hot on the heels of the base model release will be a "sports-tuned supercharged 3.5 litre version".:eyes:

Hmmmm..........That still failed to get me excited. :lol:
So will this class leading fuel economy be like the awesome Camry on fuel? :rolleyes:

[shnad]

"What's torque?"

:1peek:

[VT LS1]

"What's torque?"

:1peek:



Hmmm, sounds like you may be a toyota engineer

[O5BRKY]

TAXI driver's will be happy :nyuk:

[monaroCountry1]

AURION DELIVERS BEST-IN-CLASS POWER AND ECONOMY

Toyota Australia today confirmed its new Aurion V6 will have the most power and best fuel economy of the Aussie 'big six' family cars.
The company has advised the Department of Transport and Regional Services that the Aurion 3.5-litre V6 will deliver 200kW of power on regular unleaded petrol (ULP) and 204kW on premium unleaded petrol (PULP).

Ill believe those figures when I see the official sticker. Read the article carefully "the company has ADVISED", adviced is allot different from submitting an official figure.

The same BS occurred on the Camry launch, Toyocrap claiming their all new (rebadged American car) Camry as being the most efficient car - which were proved to be wrong. For a midsize family taxi the Camry is the worst in it's class for power and consumption.

News have suggested that in real world situations the new Holden and especially the 6spd Falcon consumes less than their advertised numbers.

What you get with the Camry and probably the Aurion is a cheap (FWD cheaper to manufacture), midsized, inefficient car (Camry). Whilst the Aurion is powerful, its not competing with Holden and Fords base models, its up against the V8's. Against the V8's the Aurion will only get slaughtered. With its FWD, less stiff chassis (notice the bracings?), underpowered performance engine etc.

[Stevotski]

The Toyota site says that hot on the heels of the base model release will be a "sports-tuned supercharged 3.5 litre version".:eyes:

despite the fact that it is going to power whitegoods, it will be interesting to see if they aim at XR6T performance with the supercharged version?

Surely this would push Holden to:

a) bring forward the direct injection 200+ Kw Alloytec
b) bring forward supercharged version

which can only be a good thing.

both of these have been mentioned by Holden execs, now lets see them for VEII or VF :nyuk:

it is also interesting that it gets the same economy as the camry - so what is the camry doing with the extra fuel? sniffing it?

[JNP304]

Would I buy one?, hell no. The worrying thing though is Toyota`s marketing department and mum and dad buyers believing everything they read. I hope it does not outsell commodore or falcon. Ive driven the 2005 Camry and even in 4cyl guise if you nail it from a standing start the front wheels spin and torque steer. (dry) They would want to have a fairly advanced TCS if they want to get 204kw to the ground, especially in the wet.
With a half decent looking body and having the "goods" on paper I hope its not a threat to VE.

[monaroCountry1]

Notice

Camry
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/ToyotaCamry/Images2007LE/Front.jpg

Mazda MPV
http://www.autobase.com/photos/large/02372763d.jpg

and Mazda 6
http://www.grohol.com/mazda/mazda6_hatchback2.jpg

[JNP304]

Just read up that the 2GR-FE Engine will be availiable in a supercharged version with intercooler. It will be badged as TRD in australia and TRD in Australia will be managed by Prodrive, yes the same company that owns and runs FPV. Still I dont know how they will get well over 200kw to the ground with FWD. There has been rumours of AWD for the S/C version, in that case it may be more of a threat than we think. (lowered AWD whitegoods?).
Prodrive should replace the BOSS 290 with the TRD engine :stick: probably quicker

[Holden Man]

29 August 2006
AURION DELIVERS BEST-IN-CLASS POWER AND ECONOMY

It will also be the most fuel-efficient six-cylinder car in the segment, consuming just 9.9 litres/100km, based on the official combined cycle.



That makes the new supposed fuel friendly 4cyl camry look like a gas guzzler.

It might have the highest power figure but no mention of the torque figure, You probably have to rev the hell out of it to get the power. Curious to see the 0-100 times as I bet the Commy & Fraud beat it.

Toyota are the masters at marketing

I will probably cope flake but I must admit it the body doesn't look too bad but the sporty look wheres off with the reality of FWD.

[Dacious]

In between the wheels, it is a Camry. At least the Avalon had it's own larger wheelbase and track. So the BF will be bigger inside, and the VE way bigger.

Plus, having the wheelbase and track so narrow is going to give it the handling dynamics of a shopping trolley - pitching and yawing a lot compared to the Ford and Holden. You can do a lot with electrickery and stiff suspension - but commuting the laws of physics will ultimately elude you. It will need a severe electronic nanny to keep the supercharged version pointed straight in the lower gears - or even on change of direction over broken bitumen, elevation/camber changes or slippery surfaces. Like torque management on a stock LS1, it will stick out like the dog's proverbials.

That will all make it feel less stable and less capable - and you know the market is going to pick this up from the first magazine test that mentions it.

Prodrive doesn't own FPV - it remanufactures production Fords into FPV vehicles under contract to Ford as fee-for-service. Ford has already said they're OK with Prodrive doing TRDs, so obviously they consider them no threat.

[VX2VESS]

maybe an alternative if was RWD, Mitsubishi’s error. If you want to tow stuff can’t beat rwd. Performance can’t beat RWD or AWD.

How they going to take some of the market off Holden and Ford with FWD. FWD can’t put the power down and control it well, traction control, big deal that’s limiting the power you can put down, all that power and no where to go.

[JNP304]

So Ford doesnt consider the prodrive deal a conflict of interest i guess? Must be less of a threat than Toyota is making it out to be.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

Toyota need to stop dicking around with front wheel drive for one. And these FE series motors are Fuel Efficient series. They need to bring GE, GTE and GZE series motors if they want to get serious about performance. But looking at the type of engine they are using they aren't serious at all. As usual they are just using their marketing crap to sell cars. Great for the company, crap for the buyers!
I am however going to try... as hard is it may be, to reserve judgement and see how the performance tests go. They may be able to make it stick. Remember the Ralliart Magnas? FWD 3.8l V6 and they were able to peal off 14 sec 1/4 with minimal traction loss. But I guess they werent supercharged.

[JNP304]

I would tend to agree they need a RWD to be a real player in the big car steaks. However I feel Toyota Australia are probably restricted because of Lexus. They probably feel a decent looking performance RWD package would detract from Lexus sales. just my 2c

[xr8_forever]

Is this the fallacy of peak power? I'd be interested to know what the average power and torque is. Will also be interesting when the Falcon and Commodore whip it in performance despite its "200Kw".

342 Nm of torque at 4,700 rpm

Shares same engine as Lexus RX350....

In the Lexus luxury SUV performance figures of 0-100kph in just 7.8 seconds have been recorded.

[vt350phantom]

Still I dont know how they will get well over 200kw to the ground with FWD.

EXACTLY RIGHT!!!!!

[Pickles]

Aurion-just another bland "wishy-washy" offering from Toyota, who seem to specialize in this sort of stuff! It will not challenge Falcon or Commodore, but may very well appeal to the "bowling green set".
Cheers, Pickles.

[jerzey21]

just changing the name from avalon wont make it any less a grandpa car they should come standard with a bowls hat on the parcel shelf with some tissues

[Fnomna]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19679&vf=12

I like Holden's response

"It's neither here nor there if they're making specific power claims with that sort of [power output] margin. We don't need to enter into a kilowatt-quoting match with Toyota, and we clearly have a bigger brother [270kW V8] that we can brag about relatively easily.

and note

Toyota boldly predicted around 24,000 sales a year for the Avalon – a recycled US model tweaked for Australian conditions – but it couldn't manage half this target even in its best year, peaking at 11,760 in 2001.

By comparison, 2001 Commodore and Falcon sales were in the 80,000 and 60,000 brackets respectively.

why do Toyota think this will change this time around?

Gees it's ugly
http://www.charous.com/uploads/00995a4371.jpghttp://www.charous.com/uploads/ea9382299c.jpg

[pixelengine]

I don't think the Aurion's an 'ugly' car. I do however think it's very bland and lacks any kind of 'hook' to get the buyers interested.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

I don't think the Aurion's an 'ugly' car. I do however think it's very bland and lacks any kind of 'hook' to get the buyers interested.

No, he's right it is ugly. I actually liked the look of the sportivo Aurion that they showed at the motor show with the blacked out headlights, but the actual release model just looks really plain and the lines are just wrong. I honestly think it looks worse than the AU. The AU at least I could see where the designers may have tried to come from but the Aurion is.... I dont know?
The new camry is even worse, whats with the flat nose and the monstrous blank spots under the headlights. I got no idea where they have come from with the design of these cars.
Like I said I could see the idea of the AU and I could see where BMW were coming from with Bangles designs, but Toyota Australia what were you thinking?

[Dacious]

Like I said I could see the idea of the AU and I could see where BMW were coming from with Bangles designs, but Toyota Australia what were you thinking?

= simple - USA styling, baby.:weirdo:

[Fnomna]

http://drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=20204&vf=12
Details from Asian V6 Camry (will be our Aurion)


For now, though, official Toyota websites in China, Taiwan, Indonesia and Thailand feature detailed pictures and information for their all-new Camry – which, in the Asian and Middle East markets, is the car Australia will know as the Aurion.

The exterior designs are identical to the Aurion – which was unveiled in Australia early in 2006 – except for a subtle grille variation.

Further complicating the Camry/Aurion relationship is that the Aurion and recently released Camry share the same basic centre section, including doors, windows and roof.

But as well as a unique nose and tail, Toyota Australia is using the interior of the two similarly sized sedans to differentiate the four-cylinder-only Camry from the V6-only Aurion.

Translate anyone?:
http://www.toyota.co.id/cars/exterior/?code=6 Exterior
http://www.toyota.co.id/cars/interior/?code=6 Interior
http://www.toyota.co.id/cars/spesification/?code=6&carid=7 Specs

http://www.charous.com/uploads/1fd909700e.jpghttp://www.charous.com/uploads/c9b03e81b7.jpg
Great looking car!
http://www.charous.com/uploads/fa95a44d51.jpg
Smart entry?

http://www.charous.com/uploads/1d92058a54.jpg

[Knight Phlier]

When do they actually release the Aurion? It seems that Toyota have been trying as hard as they can to spoil the VE party. The AFL stint, and the advertising coinciding with VE and now speculation that this car is going to be a 'better' aussie six than what is out there already. Not the first I heard that one when it's been a load of BS>>

1) it is smaller
2) it is FWD
3) it looks like a POS Toyota just like their other dismal attempts :spew:
4) The fuel consumption may be better, but it is a smaller car. Nothing suprising there.

[Black AH CDX]

Toyota has no idea!

V6 Camry sales aren't what they hope for, so the introduce the Lareger Avalon, a step in the right direction, but basing in on a used design from America ment it was a failure. So what do they do? The go back to giving us a V6 Camry but with a different name.

When will the ever learn?

[toyocharged]

This is what Toyota should build for Australia:yup:
420hp-rwd:yup:
http://www.nihoncarandbike.com/news_pics/323/news.jpg
http://www.nihoncarandbike.com/news-323-Lexus+IS500%2C+why+look+any+further%3F.html

[Marco]

Interesting that the new Camry is selling really well at the moment despite only being available with a four. Large body with a small engine - sounds like the right car for the times at the moment. In fact, it's exactly the sort of thing that made the original Magna a success back in the 80s before Mitsubishi made it into a big six.

What should be worrying Toyota is that they couldn't sell as many V6 Camrys and Avalons as they predicted back when the large car market was booming. How they're going to sell them now that large cars are about as popular as smallpox is anyone's guess.

I think history will show us that there really is only room for two large cars in the Australian market. Everyone else - Chrysler, Leyland, Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi - has tried and failed, or is trying and failing.

[Itchy_Feet]

This is what Toyota should build for Australia:yup:
420hp-rwd:yup:
http://www.nihoncarandbike.com/news-323-Lexus+IS500%2C+why+look+any+further%3F.html

At least it could be a respectable 'toyota' not whitegoods on wheels.

[Razor]

Saw one on the dyno, had 0rwkw, perhaps they should have turned it around:lmao:

God I crack myself up....

Classic LS1!:lol:

[Holden Man]

This is what Toyota should build for Australia:yup:
420hp-rwd:yup:
http://www.nihoncarandbike.com/news_pics/323/news.jpg
http://www.nihoncarandbike.com/news-323-Lexus+IS500%2C+why+look+any+further%3F.html

Can anyone else see VE in the sides ! look at the gaurds and vent !!
( I like all the new Lexus models - way better that the old ones)

[Trek52]

you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road, piston slap anyone :)

Also FWD has as many pros and cons as RWD, personally I like em :)

[monaroCountry1]

you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road, piston slap anyone

The majority of broken down cars I see on the highway are old camrys :(. Servicing intervals for the new Camrys (i heard) are 7k which is below average.

As for your piston slap comment, its not 1998 anymore, move on.

What has remained consistant is the fact that toyota still brings out boring underpowered cars, whilst holden has powerful beautiful cars.

[Carby]

you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road, piston slap anyone :)

Also FWD has as many pros and cons as RWD, personally I like em :)

Who says they're the most reliable cars in the world? - I have heard this before but methinks it's a myth that Toyota love to foster.

The only pro for FWD is packaging and smaller driveline losses, anyone who likes their cars balanced and able to handle esp. in large vehicles wouldn't touch a FWD vehicle - but each to his own.

[Holden Man]

you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road, piston slap anyone :)

Also FWD has as many pros and cons as RWD, personally I like em :)

For how much longer ?

I read in the weekend paper that Toyota have been having quality issues with their cars around the world (recalls etc). The head of Toyota blaims the bean counters who have been in charge of their cars over the last few years and bringing new models out too quickly....he says he will put the engineers back in charge from now on and have less new model changes.

They only pros of FWD are for the manufacturers, not for the drivers...how many front wheel drive formula one race cars do you see !

[Danv8]

you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road, piston slap anyone :)



All engines has piston slap just some are more audiable than others.
And yes I have heard a few toyota donks slapping away.

[Dacious]

you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road, piston slap anyone :)



Just some of the 2.2 million cars Toyota has recalled worldwide this year - some for serious faults like stalling when driving (Prius, Hybrids, Camry, Avalon) to airbags which don't go off properly (all models), to steering gear on AWDs and light trucks (Landcruiser), to dropping gears in the five-speed auto (Camry, Avalon), to faulty crank sensors (Yaris, 4-cyls).

2006 USA Toyota Recalls by Model - not complete list
• 2006 Toyota Avalon XL
• 2006 Toyota Corolla XRS

• 2006 Toyota Avalon XLS
• 2006 Toyota Corolla CE

• 2006 Toyota Avalon Touring
• 2006 Toyota Prius

• 2006 Toyota Avalon Limited
• 2006 Toyota Tacoma Prerunner

• 2006 Toyota Camry XLE
• 2006 Toyota Tacoma

• 2006 Toyota Camry
• 2006 Toyota Tacoma X-Runner

• 2006 Toyota Camry SE
• 2006 Toyota Tundra SR5

• 2006 Toyota Camry LE
• 2006 Toyota Tundra Limited

• 2006 Toyota Corolla LE
• 2006 Toyota Tundra

• 2006 Toyota Corolla S


That's just about everything they sell in some countries. Do a search for 2006 Toyota recalls on Google - it's an eyeopener when you see stories pop up about 400,000, 800,000, 1 million cars recalled in one hit.

[Trek52]

I havent caught that many fish for ages :flip2:

[BA$TAD]

I read in the weekend paper that Toyota have been having quality issues with their cars around the world (recalls etc). The head of Toyota blaims the bean counters who have been in charge of their cars over the last few years and bringing new models out too quickly....he says he will put the engineers back in charge from now on and have less new model changes.


Which paper was this? I generally interested in reading on how the Toyota is slipping in quality. I have been noticing it happening in the states a lot.

[gmh308]

Yes Toyota do make very reliable cars - engines and gearboxes etc. Initial quality is great... before the carpets and door trims start shrinking and falling out. Their tin is not all that tough though....dont fart in the wrong direction or they dent.

10+ points to the Toyota Oz styling guys though. They finally convinced Toyota Japan that the Camry boat actually looks like an uninspiring nothing of a boat and they need to change it.

With all due respect and apologies to the real live Toyota Australia engineering and styling guys that want to do it better, have the passion to do it better, but have their hands tied by old sake swilling dinos in Tokyo.....

....but a Camry is a boat. A tin box boat. It always was. A Camry that looks like an Aurion is still a boat by that logic...albeit a more powerful...maybe better looking boat. I had to drive a fleet Camry in 89/90/91. A 1600 or so engine. A 3.8 Commodore was much more economical. The Camry didnt handle and wore out real quick (engine probably went forever though). I have driven a number of Camry's over the years. They continue to disappoint. The last rental Camry I had, I gave back to Hertz and got a Ford (they dont have Holdens).

Supposedly the current Camry runs on a Lexus chassis....bad luck for the Lexus then. The Camry is a noisy tin box boat. Toyota drives the Lexus from the right end. Implication being that they recognise rear drive is the right end for a "good" car.

As someone else in this thread noted....200kw, and how will it get to the ground? Will they use VHT traction compound spray on the tyres under power? Its still a front wheel drive as others have noted. No...traction control will limit power below 4 cylinder levels that already spin and jerk in the dry (as already mentiond in this thread). Oddly the motoring press has left the fact that the drive occurs at the wrong end, well alone. Toyota does pay them advertising dollars after all. Expect a VE like story line and coverage when it breaks.

Again...10+ points to the Toyota Oz styling guys though. They finally convinced Toyota Japan that the Camry boat actually looks like a boat and they need to change it. It got some good styling at last. Though how smart is Toyota Japan if it took 10+ years to figure out that Australia is not really into cars that have styling more akin to the look of a Pokemon?

Now their challenge is to convince Tokyo to get the Aurion with the drive at the right end, and to build a car that handles like a BMW (like the VE reportedly does), or even a Ford which is oh so close.

Though Toyota marketing will work their smoke and mirrors and convince Joe driver that the Aurion is really a Commodore or a Ford, but more economical and with more power!!!

When they superceded the model I drove in 1990 with the "wide body" Camry, claiming it was a bigger Commodore/Ford sized car...I measured one inside....same shoulder to shoulder size as the outgoing "narrow body?" car. same car inside! Wider outside! What did Joe driver get? He though he got a bigger car. He got jerked off.

Watch out Joe driver, watch Australian driving public, the Aurion looks better (depending on your point of view...the pics I have seen do show a quantum leap in looks over the old boat), but it is still a Camry.

Dont let Toyota's association with the AFL kid you either Joe driver .... Oz is about football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars (and Ford's I would concede).

An Aurion is still a Camry.....unless there is some secret magic yet to come....

[Danv8]

http://blogs.drive.com.au/2006/09/aurion_the_next_big_thing_or_a_1.html

Seems that a lot of people think the Aurion is going to kill the VE.

Yeah I can see thousands of V8 Commodore owners going to trade up to a FWD whitegood. :rofl:

[JNP304]

Danv8 I cant believe I read all of that blog. Cant understand so many one eyed comments from Toyota fans. Far out that blog has got me a bit pi$$ed off that there are so many knockers of the VE and love the Aurion before its even come out. Fancy saying you dont notice if a car is FWD. One bloke even said the last Camry was RWD (since when?)
I responed by calling it the Toyota Westinghouse!
Come on guys get on the blog and give it to these FWD loving schmucks

[VZSS250]

While there's no doubt I'd rather be cruising around in a RWD 5.0 litre Holden with 165kw, Toyota have thrown plenty of egg in the faces of their competitors and embarrassed a lot of V8 owners. 204kw is huge!

[HSVMAN]

http://blogs.drive.com.au/2006/09/aurion_the_next_big_thing_or_a_1.html

Seems that a lot of people think the Aurion is going to kill the VE.

Yeah I can see thousands of V8 Commodore owners going to trade up to a FWD whitegood. :rofl:


The only comments against VE are pretty childish I wouldnt take any of that seriously :lol:

[csv rulz]

While there's no doubt I'd rather be cruising around in a RWD 5.0 litre Holden with 165kw, Toyota have thrown plenty of egg in the faces of their competitors and embarrassed a lot of V8 owners. 204kw is huge!

How can you compare a 1996 holden to a 2006 toyota? So what if it was a 5L and has less power its 10 years older. It should be compared to a 2006 Holden ie: 180kw and 195kw or if your comparing it to a V8 270kw.

At the end of the day its still FWD, ugly and a grandpa's car. It has street cred in the bowles club but thats it

[HSVMAN]

While there's no doubt I'd rather be cruising around in a RWD 5.0 litre Holden with 165kw, Toyota have thrown plenty of egg in the faces of their competitors and embarrassed a lot of V8 owners. 204kw is huge!

In what respects? It wont handle anywhere near like a VE :D
If Holden wanted more power they would have given it and could quite easily, people are forgetting that.

[BearSS]

In what respects? It wont handle anywhere near like a VE :D
If Holden wanted more power they would have given it and could quite easily, people are forgetting that.

Good point, power figures these days are more about marketing than anything else! They have market research on which figure sounds best.

The Aurion will probably drive nicely and do everything its supposed to do but I want a car that I'm enthusiastic about. I dont think that there will be any website as popular as this one based on the Aurion!

[Holden Man]

I'd like to know the torque figure of the Aurion and where is peak torque. I bet you have to rev the guts out of it to get any of the power.

Anyone remeber the latest Celica with it's "high power" 4 cyl which only had any oomph in the last 2000rpm of the rev range(5000-7000rpm). Hardly a great engine, by the time it gets going the other guy is gone !

In the end I doubt 10kw advantage will make any difference. The XR6 has less power than the SV6 but beats it to 100.

The VS 6 cyl will beat a MK4 Supra 6 (n/a) as well !! (147kw vs 172kw)

[Fnomna]

I'd like to know the torque figure of the Aurion and where is peak torque. I bet you have to rev the guts out of it to get any of the power.
http://www.charous.com/uploads/7a76b75792.jpg
1kg-m = 9.8Nm
343Nm @ 4700rpm (peak power @ 6200)
http://www.toyota.co.id/cars/performance/?code=6#

[clixanup]

An Aurion is still a Camry.....
Yes, but it's an AWD Camry with a Lexus motor.

And according to Fnomna's post, looks like it makes good power & torque (for a 6) !!

[Danv8]

Yes, but it's an AWD Camry with a Lexus motor.

No such thing as a lexus motor since its all toyota. :)
And its FWD not AWD.

[clixanup]

No such thing as a lexus motor since its all toyota. :)
And its FWD not AWD.
I read somewhere that there'll be a 250kw s/c AWD version.

[Guzzles]

Damn I just wasted some minutes of my life reading that uninformed crap on the drive blog site.

I cant believe these guys raving about toyota aurion being the best car ever seen in this universe, FWD being THE way to go, race relations, DOHC engines, build quality.
They must be from toyota advertising or all the people that believe it. :flipoff:
I reckon if Toyota advertising told them to climb out of their windows and jump, yelling "my life for a toyota aurion" before they hit the ground they would do it:)

at least I see some LS1ers like danv8 giving it back to these guys!


some of the best(worst) comments:

"Ramjet... im the same. To make my mums magna feel like a rwd i Jacked up the back end with my little trolley jack, and put the handbrake on and let the end down on two macdonalds trays! then you would drive around the macca's carpark like you were driving a dirt sprint car!!!
However... after they melt flat spots onto your mum's retreads i soon sore the benefits of front wheel drive!
Posted by: Dave | September 22, 2006 05:13 PM "

"Stop comparing the Aurion to the VE.... It will win hands down. How can a so called 'holden' engineered and designed by Australians compete with the magnificent workforce of Japan. The basics of the Aurion have been engineered in Japan, no doubt with lots of money and time, more so then the new common-dore.
Australians have no chance of producing a better engineered, reliable or safe car as what toyota can produce.
Give up now while your ahead or suffer a slow death at the hands of Toyota. I hate holdens and fords, un-realiable, poorly engineered and thirsty vehicles which eptomize the 'stone age.'
Posted by: What a Feeling | September 24, 2006 11:27 PM "

""toyota having advanced technology in there cars is a total myth."
Then why are GM and Ford buying hybrid system from Toyota?
Why does toyota 3.5L engine produce more power than Ford's 4.0L engine and GM's 3.6L? yet more fuel efficient.
Does GM have F1 cars?
Why are GM still using Pushrod V8 engines?
Why do GM Ford have a crappy resale value?
Why do Australia sell more camries than commodore?
When did Falcodore aquire DOHC?
Can Australia design their own engine?
Gear box?
have a look at the Falcodores from engineering point of view.
Posted by: tw | September 25, 2006 09:27 AM "

[Holden Man]

http://www.charous.com/uploads/7a76b75792.jpg
1kg-m = 9.8Nm
343Nm @ 4700rpm (peak power @ 6200)
http://www.toyota.co.id/cars/performance/?code=6#

Thanks Fnomma.

Has the same torque as the SV6 but kicks in way later. (Just as I thought)

VE SV6 = 340Nm @ 2600rpm

(Will have to wait to see what figures it has once it lands here)

[PaulST]

I read somewhere that there'll be a 250kw s/c AWD version.
The boss of TRD has confirmed that there will be no AWD Aurion and that the supercharged 240kW+ model will be FWD.

[Invasionss]

I'll be very interested in reading what wheels & motor have to say about the new toyota & also if the compare it up against the VE & the BF 6's!

Im sure the toyota 6 cylinder will rip the shit outta the holden's V6 alloytec & Ford's inline 6 due to it's F1 enhancements. But i guess we'll all see in november when it's released...

I'm taking both the VE & the Aurion for a test spin to compare.

Justin

[EfiJy]

i dont care how good toyota claim the camrion is. it will never be as good as falcon and commode. as long as the worst drivers on our roads drive camrions we have nothing wot worry about. not all drivers want to drive like there asleep behind the wheel. the only reason why camrion is doin ok in sales and 380 is doing crap[ is because mistubishi stopped making the 4 cylnder. that was a dumb decison by mitsubhisi and they are pay the price now. people who dont know any better drive 4 cyl bc they think it saves them $$$$ but they are piss poor and drink like a 6.

:spew:

[Evil LS1]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19679&vf=12

I like Holden's response


and note


why do Toyota think this will change this time around?

Gees it's ugly
http://www.charous.com/uploads/00995a4371.jpghttp://www.charous.com/uploads/ea9382299c.jpg

Those shots at least show the Aurion to be surprisingly good looking. The Camry is let down by it's front with the ugly nose, but Aurion is much better and in fact from the front looks better than the VE with it's 1970's flares. VE look awesome from all other angles though.

If the Aurion was RWD or AWD the supercharged version would well be worth a drive.


Good point, power figures these days are more about marketing than anything else! They have market research on which figure sounds best.

The Aurion will probably drive nicely and do everything its supposed to do but I want a car that I'm enthusiastic about. I dont think that there will be any website as popular as this one based on the Aurion!

Well the one thing the VE has is the ability to take shit loads more power. 500kW is not out of the question with a turbocharged L98,LS2 and the chassis will handle it; can't see that happening in an Aurion

[clixanup]

i dont care how good toyota claim the camrion is. it will never be as good as falcon and commode. as long as the worst drivers on our roads drive camrions we have nothing wot worry about. not all drivers want to drive like there asleep behind the wheel. the only reason why camrion is doin ok in sales and 380 is doing crap[ is because mistubishi stopped making the 4 cylnder. that was a dumb decison by mitsubhisi and they are pay the price now. people who dont know any better drive 4 cyl bc they think it saves them $$$$ but they are piss poor and drink like a 6.
OK, I drive a VYII Calais V8 and disagree with everything you've said. My previous car was a Corolla.

In terms of quality, Holden and Ford are way behind. There are just too many "little" things which go wrong, which just don't happen with Toyotas.

My Holden is 2 years and 9 months old. In that short time the following parts have been replaced (some under warranty):

RHR central locking motor,
climate control actuator,
inlet manifold seals,
plastic moulding on the driver's seat base,
glovebox hinges.

There was also a power steering leak (and a couple of recalls).

The car can't seem to go for 6 months without something else breaking. ATM, my seat base is loose and the lid on the little box in the console seems to have dislocated itself.

These may be all "little" things, but they add up.

Compare that with the 5 years I had the Corolla: all I did was put petrol in it & change the oil every 6 months. Nothing ever broke or fell off. And it already had 130K clicks on it when I bought it!

Holden and Ford do have quality issues. You're in denial if you think otherwise.

That said, I like my Holden a lot. I tolerate the little things which break, because it is still under warranty. It is a fun car to drive, and mechanically, has been very reliable. But when the time comes to upgrade (in God knows how many years) I don't think my next car will be wearing a Holden badge.


Well the one thing the VE has is the ability to take shit loads more power. 500kW is not out of the question with a turbocharged L98,LS2 and the chassis will handle it; can't see that happening in an Aurion
Firstly, you're comparing apples with oranges. The Toyota is a V6. Not a V8.

Secondly, if you believe that Holden are EVER going to release a 500kw V8 you're dreaming. It simply will not happen.

[Merlin]

Holden and Ford do have quality issues. You're in denial if you think otherwise.

That said, I like my Holden a lot. I tolerate the little things which break, because it is still under warranty. It is a fun car to drive, and mechanically, has been very reliable. But when the time comes to upgrade (in God knows how many years) I don't think my next car will be wearing a Holden badge.


Clixanp I agree totally, after a procession of Ford's and Holdens and their associated quality issues. I remain an aussie car fan, but there is no denying the Japanese quality advantage.

The only thing that keeps me coming back is the value for money. Catch 22 really.

[HSVMAN]

Clixanp I agree totally, after a procession of Ford's and Holdens and their associated quality issues. I remain an aussie car fan, but there is no denying the Japanese quality advantage.

The only thing that keeps me coming back is the value for money. Catch 22 really.

Lets hope VE turns most of that around :)

[Holden Man]

Im sure the toyota 6 cylinder will rip the shit outta the holden's V6 alloytec & Ford's inline 6 due to it's F1 enhancements.

The modern F1 engine is nothing like a road car engine and there would be no direct link at all with Aurions engine and their F1 team. It's all marketing and Toyota are experts at it.

Speaking of F1 and Toyota - They started around 2002 - they spend more than any other team by a fair bit - they have lots of engine / transmission failures and they are yet to win a race !!

Honda has won since coming back (with a way smaller budget!)

I think the journos will like how quiet the Toyota 6 cyl engine is but that will be about it.

[Fnomna]

Power to the ground?
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.aspx?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=Camry&trimid=-1
Toyota Camry XLE - V6 3.5L (268 hp) 6A + ABS
0-60mph 6.70, 1/4 mile 15.05

[Holden Man]

Power to the ground?
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.aspx?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=Camry&trimid=-1
Toyota Camry XLE - V6 3.5L (268 hp) 6A + ABS
0-60mph 6.70, 1/4 mile 15.05

Actually that's alot faster than I was thinking !
:confused:

[monaroCountry1]

In terms of quality, Holden and Ford are way behind. There are just too many "little" things which go wrong, which just don't happen with Toyotas.

Explain to me why I see way too many camrys stuck on the side of the roads with hazards on waiting for a tow truck?.........from experience mostly timing belt related issues.

The new Camry's = when it stops, your f@cked.


http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/sp...r y&trimid=-1
Toyota Camry XLE - V6 3.5L (268 hp) 6A + ABS
0-60mph 6.70, 1/4 mile 15.05

Pretty good, but need to see it first.

god knows toyota is renowned for over inflating their cars performance i.e. lexus.

[clixanup]

Explain to me why I see way too many camrys stuck on the side of the roads with hazards on waiting for a tow truck?.........from experience mostly timing belt related issues.
I don't know. Maybe you don't notice anything else? Could it be that the Camry is car of choice for speed camera operators? Most of the cars I see broken down these days are old Camiras.

Edit: And in the 5 years that I had my Corolla, I never had any timing belt issues. It was 35,000km overdue for a new one when I traded it in.

The new Camry's = when it stops, your f@cked.
As opposed to what? With all their electronic gadgetry, modern cars are very "backyarder-unfriendly" no matter which make.

[EfiJy]

give ford and holden some credit. australia is a design centre for these companies. toyota isnt. toyota here builds cars under instruction from japan and have little to no design freedoms. a case of monkey me, monkey do. sometimes i wonder if monkeys drive camrys because youd swear the drivers only have 1/2 brain. camry drivers are todays volvo dri vers no question.

[clixanup]

give ford and holden some credit. australia is a design centre for these companies. toyota isnt. toyota here builds cars under instruction from japan and have little to no design freedoms.
Ever heard of "economies of scale"? It makes financial sense to manufacture the same cars worldwide.

sometimes i wonder if monkeys drive camrys because youd swear the drivers only have 1/2 brain. camry drivers are todays volvo drivers no question.
Strong argument there. Sorry I questioned you. :weirdo: You're clearly more educated than me on this subject, so I'll just quietly withdraw from this discussion.

But before I do, I left a couple of items off my list of problems I've had in 2.75 years of Holden ownership:
- RHR power window switch failed & was replaced under warranty and
- hand brake was dragging, so they fitted a mod called a "scrape kit" 12,000km ago. It still drags, despite me asking the dealer to look at it again at the last service.

And then there's the depreciation. What's top dollar for a VYII V8 Calais w/leather & 52K clicks these days? I dunno, but I can tell you that as of the 15th September I still owe $28,000 on the thing. If I were to sell it tomorrow, I'd be at least $5,000 out of pocket!

Don't get me wrong. I really like my car a lot and will probably be keeping it for at least another 6 or 7 years, but I don't think I'll be buying Aussie made again.

[monaroCountry1]

Don't get me wrong. I really like my car a lot and will probably be keeping it for at least another 6 or 7 years, but I don't think I'll be buying Aussie made again.

My previous ownership of toyotas would scare the living %^&*^ out of you, faults everywhere, you name it its broken. My nissan ownership has been nearly as worse.

[Holden Man]

Ever heard of "economies of scale"? It makes financial sense to manufacture the same cars worldwide.

That benefits the manufcaturer but what about the consumer. Australia is a pretty small market. We would have no say in what we like in cars. We would be stuck with what the US market wants or the Asian market wants. It's amazing that we are still able to produce our own cars here that perform for our unique conditions.....and you don't feel a need to protect that !


But before I do, I left a couple of items off my list of problems I've had in 2.75 years of Holden ownership:
- RHR power window switch failed & was replaced under warranty and
- hand brake was dragging, so they fitted a mod called a "scrape kit" 12,000km ago. It still drags, despite me asking the dealer to look at it again at the last service.

And then there's the depreciation. What's top dollar for a VYII V8 Calais w/leather & 52K clicks these days? I dunno, but I can tell you that as of the 15th September I still owe $28,000 on the thing. If I were to sell it tomorrow, I'd be at least $5,000 out of pocket!

All manufacturers have problems with their cars (German, Japanese, French, English, American, Korean etc). The reality is that it's pot luck in the end. Your Calais has had problems but there would be others Calais owners who have had no problems at all. All cars depreciate and Holdens are not the worst. Look up what Avalons go for these days.


Don't get me wrong. I really like my car a lot and will probably be keeping it for at least another 6 or 7 years, but I don't think I'll be buying Aussie made again.


What do you like about your Calais ? Why did you go to Holden from Toyota in the first place ?

Lets hope there a less and less people with your attitude otherwise in 6 or 7 years you won't have a choice to buy Aussie made :flipoff:

[Knight Phlier]

give ford and holden some credit. australia is a design centre for these companies. toyota isnt. toyota here builds cars under instruction from japan and have little to no design freedoms. a case of monkey me, monkey do. sometimes i wonder if monkeys drive camrys because youd swear the drivers only have 1/2 brain. camry drivers are todays volvo dri vers no question.

I agree - "Bloody Camry Drivers!!" :lol:

[HSVMAN]

I agree - "Bloody Camry Drivers!!" :lol:

I have always regarded Toyota (& Nissan) highly in terms of quality of manufacture and reliability.
Have you ever seen a Camry after an accident? I have seen quite a few locally and it's enough to scare me or anyone close to me away from owning one. But they are not the worst

[clixanup]

That benefits the manufcaturer but what about the consumer.
While you're here yelling at me for complaining about some quality issues with my car, the consumers are out there buying Hondas, Toyotas and even Holdens & Fords (i.e. Barina & Fiesta) which were designed, engineered and tested overseas. Do you think they really care?

It's amazing that we are still able to produce our own cars here
If memory serves, Holden were on the brink of financial collapse when GM bought them out. The all-Aussie car was a really effective way of kick-starting the economy after WW2. It provided jobs for people in several industries and there were lots of benefits associated with it.

These days, the picture is very different. Local industries are dying because they cannot compete, and it is the large car manufacturers of this country who are killing them. Quality has taken a back seat to price. How do you think it's possible that Holden are selling the VE Caprice at $69,990? How much local content is really in that car?

that perform for our unique conditions.....and you don't feel a need to protect that !
Oh please. "Unique conditions?" What unique conditions? Maybe we shouldn't be driving LS1s, because they weren't engineered here and as such aren't properly suited to our "unique conditions."

Your Calais has had problems but there would be others Calais owners who have had no problems at all.
If you look at all the items I've mentioned, you'll notice that they're mostly minor or cosmetic things. I'm willing to bet that most VT-onwards Holden owners have had at least one of these problems. When you pay upwards of $50,000 for a car, you expect these things to not happen. It'd be a different story if I'd bought an Executive, but I didn't. I'd like to think that I paid the extra money for a reason, but have been proven wrong.

All cars depreciate and Holdens are not the worst.
I know, but that still doesn't take the pain away.

What do you like about your Calais ?
It is a fun (and comfortable) car to drive. Lots of power, and it doesn't drink that much - I can get to Adelaide on a tank. Also, it has been mechanically reliable and is very good looking. The warranty finishes in January, and I'm planning on having the PCM tickled, which should make it even more fun to drive!

Why did you go to Holden from Toyota in the first place ?
Well, it isn't the first Holden I've ever owned. My first car was a Holden, as were the 2 which followed it. To be honest, I was happy with the Corolla, but my boss wanted me to buy a car which makes a better impression on clients and he offered me a neat salary package to prompt me along. I went looking for a Statesman, but the Calais really caught my eye.

Lets hope there a less and less people with your attitude otherwise in 6 or 7 years you won't have a choice to buy Aussie made :flipoff:
I don't think it'll make much difference what I do or what anyone else does. The Australian car industry is killing itself. You can't blame the consumer for the idiotic decisions being made by management.

[ti0350]

The government is not really helping either with the low import taxes they have Australia is a dumping ground for cheap arse asian made cars..
Look at the import taxes in places like malaysia because they want to encourage people to buy locally made cars..

[HSVMAN]

These days, the picture is very different. Local industries are dying because they cannot compete, and it is the large car manufacturers of this country who are killing them. Quality has taken a back seat to price. How do you think it's possible that Holden are selling the VE Caprice at $69,990? How much local content is really in that car?

Oh please. "Unique conditions?" What unique conditions? Maybe we shouldn't be driving LS1s, because they weren't engineered here and as such aren't properly suited to our "unique conditions."

If you look at all the items I've mentioned, you'll notice that they're mostly minor or cosmetic things.

I don't think it'll make much difference what I do or what anyone else does. The Australian car industry is killing itself. You can't blame the consumer for the idiotic decisions being made by management.

I'm sorry but if you are referring to models of old maybe so, but in case you have had your eyes and ears cut out things have changed.
The design and engineering of VE is completely local and I cant believe people like yourself are so negative when your country has just produced a car that could possible take the world by storm. Hell send the bloody factory over here if it means that little to Australia :D
There are globally produced parts in nearly every car built world wide. If there were not, you wouldnt be seeing that car, at least not in the format it is in now.
You said yourself "minor" & "cosmetic" problems, whats your point then? ALL manufacturers have minor or cosmetic problems including expensive Europeans.

Personally I think the Australian motor industry is just about to make the rest of the world sit up and take notice

[clixanup]

The design and engineering of VE is completely local
I know that, but it isn't what I was talking about.

What I'm saying is that items like glass, interior plastics and little things like central locking motors all come from overseas. These items may be cheaper, but they're also of a lesser quality than the items produced here.

You said yourself "minor" & "cosmetic" problems, whats your point then?
I also said "mostly" not "all." Things like the handbrake dragging and the broken climate control actuator and the broken central locking motor and the broken power window switch are not cosmetic. Do you reckon I'd get problems like these in a Honda?

Like I said, when you hand over $50+ large, you tend to expect better quality than that.

Personally I think the Australian motor industry is just about to make the rest of the world sit up and take notice
Oh hell yeah. The industry has never been in better shape:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Business/Push-to-save-Ions-Altona-plant/2004/12/13/1102787008647.html
http://www.etu.asn.au/2006/empire_rubber.html
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1720321.htm
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20197289-2,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20197513-5006301,00.html
http://www.labor.net.au/news/2176.html
http://www.nuw.org.au/articles/vic/MediaReleases/huonsupreme
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/workers-strike-in-defence-of-payouts/2006/07/14/1152637871136.html

:weirdo:

[csv rulz]

I know that, but it isn't what I was talking about.

What I'm saying is that items like glass, interior plastics and little things like central locking motors all come from overseas. These items may be cheaper, but they're also of a lesser quality than the items produced here.

:weirdo:

Thats at least better than the whole car coming from overseas.

As for all your problems at least there not mechanical there only minor things and when you produce such a large amount of cars of course little things go wrong. no one is perfect.

I seen a brand spankin new Mercedes R class yesterday and the front bumper on the left hand side stuck out by about 1inch, so i asked the owner what happened he said thats what it was like when we took delivery. So even the king of quality (MERC) have there little problems.

I think for the price we pay for our new cars and the equipment level and quality that is in them compared to others around the world we are mighty lucky. Value for money Aussie cars are up the top.

By the way with my VT iv not had one problem and its nearly on 200,000km, I for one will definitely will be buying another Holden.

[HSVMAN]

I know that, but it isn't what I was talking about.

What I'm saying is that items like glass, interior plastics and little things like central locking motors all come from overseas. These items may be cheaper, but they're also of a lesser quality than the items produced here.

I also said "mostly" not "all." Things like the handbrake dragging and the broken climate control actuator and the broken central locking motor and the broken power window switch are not cosmetic. Do you reckon I'd get problems like these in a Honda?

Like I said, when you hand over $50+ large, you tend to expect better quality than that.

Oh hell yeah. The industry has never been in better shape:
:weirdo:

Not sure what your bone of contention is mate.

I will re-phrase that to "Holden will make the world sit up..." not the Australian motor industry, which by the looks of things has nothing whatsoever to do with Holden's recent efforts. If anything Holden may be their saviour :)
I have owned 2 Hondas, a Civic and Prelude both of which literally fell apart by 150000km. Engines and trans were superb but everything else.....
I suspect Toyota are better than that though

[clixanup]

Thats at least better than the whole car coming from overseas.
The way things are going, it won't be too much longer.

As for all your problems at least there not mechanical there only minor things and when you produce such a large amount of cars of course little things go wrong.
I just noticed that you also have an Alfa. You're used to things falling apart! :lol:

I will re-phrase that to "Holden will make the world sit up..." not the Australian motor industry
Sorry, when you said the Australian motor industry, I assumed that's what you meant.

[csv rulz]

I just noticed that you also have an Alfa. You're used to things falling apart! :lol:

.

That alfa i own is one of the most reliable cars. It use to be my daily driver (800km per week) till i got the VT. Last weekend was the first time i started it in 4 weeks, and gues what started first go,iv not had one problem with my alfa and it is so fun to drive. so :flipoff:

While it is a high maintenance car it doesnt bother me coz i new it would be when i bought(and the way it drives its all worth it) but there are not many 30 year old cars in that condition that arn't high maintenance.

[Danv8]

This topic is beginning to be just as pathetic and bad as drives blogs.

I can hear the lock coming soon.

[csv rulz]

Even if the alfa was falling apart which it is not i would still rather drive it than any corolla, avalon, camry, aurion because it is an exciting car to drive. The toyotas might be a cool car in the bowles club.

But this isnt about my alfa its about weather the aurion is going to kick commodore and falcon ass. I think its got no chance coz its FWD ans another bland Toyota

[KingClifton]

"What's torque?"

:1peek:

...said the 2 Japanese engineers

[Knight Phlier]

clixanup - You going to be lining up for an Aurion then ? :lol:

[monaroCountry1]

hhahahahahh classic king :)

[clixanup]

clixanup - You going to be lining up for an Aurion then ? :lol:
Mate, I already told you I don't want to sell the Calais and will most probably keep it for at least 6 to 7 more years.

Although I'll admit that I do like the sound of a 250kw AWD version. I'd be first in the queue for one of those! :eyes:

[EfiJy]

well your good at arguoing but not making much sence. what i was referring to was that holden is competeing with japan now. its not a player in its own back yard anymore.

you wonder why toyotas here dont have such a bad reputation? well considering that toyota stagger there launches all over the world, by the time a camrion gets built here its a proven product. toyota japan inc has been able to rectify production problems based on a scale of cars sold in japan, usa and other nations. australia gets its cars build much later than those countires.

now holden is much bolder than that and it could take a little whiile before holden and its suppliers get there act together. but considering the ve is as good as a bmw technically, it doesnt say much about toyotas effort to go up against a holden does it?. before you answer that qn, ask yourself if the camrion is able to compete with bmw!!!!!!!! :spew:

:rofl:

[Evil LS1]

Secondly, if you believe that Holden are EVER going to release a 500kw V8 you're dreaming. It simply will not happen.

Why would you think I would think Holden would release a 500kW car. I was commenting on the fact the new chassis could cope with it. Plenty of guys are already getting 400kW+ out of VT-VZ and VE is light years ahead in the chassis. Holden give us a starting point. 270kW from 6L is lame, add 100kW at least for my baseline.


I'd like to know the torque figure of the Aurion and where is peak torque. I bet you have to rev the guts out of it to get any of the power.

Anyone remeber the latest Celica with it's "high power" 4 cyl which only had any oomph in the last 2000rpm of the rev range(5000-7000rpm). Hardly a great engine, by the time it gets going the other guy is gone !

In the end I doubt 10kw advantage will make any difference. The XR6 has less power than the SV6 but beats it to 100.

The VS 6 cyl will beat a MK4 Supra 6 (n/a) as well !! (147kw vs 172kw)

I don't think you can compare the 3.5l V6 to the 1.8L sewing machine engine in the Celica. It won't make peak power at 7000 or peak torque at 6000 that's for sure.

[clixanup]

what i was referring to was that holden is competeing with japan now.
Yep. Has been for over 40 years now.

you wonder why toyotas here dont have such a bad reputation? well considering that toyota stagger there launches all over the world, by the time a camrion gets built here its a proven product.
And that's a bad thing? How so?

but considering the ve is as good as a bmw
:rofl: That's funny.

[HSVMAN]

:rofl: That's funny.

But true in terms of ride, handling and technical suspension set-up. Mercedes even bought one to check it out. I took an SS-V into a BMW dealership last week to show a couple of mates there and they were simply blown away.
Proof is in the pudding this time :)

[Holden Man]

I don't think you can compare the 3.5l V6 to the 1.8L sewing machine engine in the Celica. It won't make peak power at 7000 or peak torque at 6000 that's for sure.


Full torque kicking in at just over 4000rpm is still high compared to 2000-2500rpm of the Ford and Holden.

[csv rulz]

Yep. Has been for over 40 years now.

And that's a bad thing? How so?

:rofl: That's funny.

Its a bad thing coz the cars are so old. Look at the Avalon that had been sold in America for years then it came to AUS and it was a big flop because its design was so old.

[JNP304]

I hear TRD will be releasing a "Frost Free" version. Clive Peeters and Harvey Norman must be getting excited about these new whitegoods.

[EddieVE06]

I hear TRD will be releasing a "Frost Free" version. Clive Peeters and Harvey Norman must be getting excited about these new whitegoods.

And there is 40 months interest free on them

[Black AH CDX]

do they come in stainless steel?

[EddieVE06]

do they come in stainless steel?

No, only white wouldn't want to go to retro and apparantly sound just like their whitegoods range

[EfiJy]

Yep. Has been for over 40 years now.

And that's a bad thing? How so?

:rofl: That's funny.

i dont know if you r just being a slippery eel or just slow cox u dont seem to be graspin anything?

to put it simply to ya, if peeps like you keep rubbishin holden like youve been doing well have no manufacturing industry in this country and no design centre. holden will be no moreand well just be getting imported cars to drive. but if you dont give a sh!t keep driving your corolla and bagging the local makers that have at least done their bit to convince there parent companies that they are capable of building cars that are the equal of anywhaere in the world.

if you find that hard to grasp then i cant help you.:flipoff:

[clixanup]

but if you dont give a sh!t keep driving your corolla
Can you read? I drive a VYII Calais V8.

My original post was merely to state that there have been lots of little 'niggles' with my car which simply shouldn't happen when you've dropped that sort of money.

The Japanese have it all over Australia for quality, fit and finish. Period.

Don't bother arguing that point unless you have ever owned a Jap car. :jester:


if peeps like you keep rubbishin holden like youve been doing well have no manufacturing industry in this country and no design centre.
I dunno about the design centre, but the manufacturing industry in this country is dying a long slow painful death of its own accord.

[vecommo]

The Japanese have it all over Australia for quality, fit and finish. Period.
I don't know about that. They might have slightly better fit and finish when new but when it comes to longevity they just don't last. Why is it that every time I see a car billowing blue smoke 9 times out of 10 it's a Japanese car, be it a Mitsubishi, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda whatever.
From what I have seen, most Jap cars only last around 150,000 - 200,000kms before they are completely stuffed and start blowing smoke, whereas I have seen plenty of Holdens with 300,000+ still running fine.
Then you have high servicing costs, obsurd parts pricing and engine bays with so much crammed into them that you need to pull apart half the car just to change a spark plug.
No thanks, I'll stick with my Holdens that I know and trust.

[TheAnxious]

We've got a fleet of about 35 Toyota's, Hilux's and Corolla's...and they're hardly ever off the road with problems.

Commodore and Falcon utes were nothing but headaches.

[`redoctober]

and they're hardly ever off the road with problems.
because they're stuck on the road with problems? :lol:

[Dacious]

Holdens and Fords have in the past had problems, perhaps still do. As Japanese makers have made more sophisticated cars and devolved construction they are starting to strike problems, too.

100% of RX8s sold in the US have just been recalled to test for failed motors, and there are standing recalls in manyToyota models sold there - some for serious faults like airbags and steering.

It is true the Japanese are masters of making a moderate quality component to a tolerance which lasts a reasonable time. Once they start making them outside Japan, and pushing production volumes?

In the case of the Aurion we are talking about a car no-one has yet tested in Oz market form, Euro-compliant and passing ADRs for noise.

So we don't know the power or economy. One of the motoring clubs here tested the new 4-cyl Camry and couldn't get close to Toyota's claimed economy, whereas the same mob achieved Holden's economy figures for the Omega. So will the Aurion beat the lighter, smaller capacity Camry in supping fuel? Unlikely.

[Matymoo]

Details from Asian V6 Camry (will be our Aurion)

The exterior designs are identical to the Aurion – which was unveiled in Australia early in 2006 – except for a subtle grille variation.



I remember reading in some media article somewhere, (or was it even the Toyota website), that the Aurion had been "styled" by the same bloke that did the BA Falcon!

Now I see the truth..... this claim was no more than a marketing ploy to con buyers into believing that Toyota was building a car FOR the Aussie market!

P.S. .... what's with this 10 posts before posting a link crap?


you guys crack me up, Toyota make the most reliable cars on the road

....they may be the most reliable..... but from my experience, (I have owned a total of 3 Toyotas and 5 Holdens), when the Toyota does break down, you pay big dollars. Try $460 for a power steering hose for a '76 Crown (and that was the price 14 years ago!.... ended up finding a good one on a wreck), or $280 for an '85 Celica indicator lens (Lens only). Those are 2 wallet burning experience that I recall.

For the price of that single indicator lens, I could have bought around 14 early model commodore lens's!

All 3 Toyotas that I owned were boring cars. Expensive for parts and not particularly high performers.

[Fnomna]

....they may be the most reliable..... but from my experience, (I have owned a total of 3 Toyotas and 5 Holdens), when the Toyota does break down, you pay big dollars. Try $460 for a power steering hose for a '76 Crown (and that was the price 14 years ago!.... ended up finding a good one on a wreck), or $280 for an '85 Celica indicator lens (Lens only). Those are 2 wallet burning experience that I recall.

P.S. .... what's with this 10 posts before posting a link crap?

Fair point there with the cost (and availability) of spares for Toyota compared to Holden.

lol - does you Automerged Double posts mean you're one less post closer to the magical '10' ! :)

[Matymoo]

lol - does you Automerged Double posts mean you're one less post closer to the magical '10' ! :)


Hahaha I am guessing that was done as payback for complaining about the 10 post policy :rolleyes:

Should be picking up my new VX LS1 Wagon this arvo! woohooo :driving: