H.S.V. VZ/VE Power Difference--2KW?!

[Pickles]

According to HSV's 2006 VZ brochure, their VZ LS2 power/torque is:
Power, 305kw(DIN) @ 6000 rpm. Torque, 530nm @ 4400.(using 95 octane)
Similarly, H.S.V.'s "E Series" VE brochure quotes:
Power, 307kw(DIN) @ 6000 rpm. Torque, 550nm @ 4400.(using 98 octane)
So the actual power increase is 2kw,according to H.S.V.'s figures, but the VZ is quoted using 95 octane, so if it was quoted running 98 octane, it might make 307kw, the same as VE, which also has the benefit of a better exhaust.
So, obviously whilst there is a torque increase of 20nm, it appears to me as if the power of the two engines may be the same, if they were both run on the same fuel.
But, some of the tuners on the forum may be able to paint a more accurate picture!
Cheers, Pickles.

[Ryzz]

Ummm, must me a typo mate, the VZ LS2 only made 297KW (DIN as well afaik), it didnt crack the "300" barrier until the VE.

[Scramjet]

Pickles is correct, it was even on the HSV website as of a few days ago in the specs section. This has been brought up on the VE HSV thread also.

[Redline]

Ummm, must me a typo mate, the VZ LS2 only made 297KW (DIN as well afaik), it didnt crack the "300" barrier until the VE. It was badged as 297kw

[SV805]

This has been raised a number of times without anyone seeming to clarify or explain the difference. I thought the 297kw was (NOT DIN). Pickles has a point that has been queried before in the fact has the power increased at all. Have any been on the dyno. Could they achieve a 20nm torque increase without any power gain ???.
I said weeks ago that I don't care if it hasn't had any power increase I just don't like it when Holden make out they have increased power and have either overstated or no increase at all and have just changed the way they record the power.

[McobraR]

the HSV has only gained about 2kw and 5nm. When you convert the 297kw (which was measured in ECE or maybe SAE) into DIN it equals about 305kw/545nm. The torque figure is more of a guess cus i remember in the paper they converted the typhoons power rating to HSV's measurement and it equaled about 265kw/535nm, if you do the math, HSVs VZ rating should be about the same as what i stated.

[StevieD]

2 whole kilowatts hey- must have polished the TB :lol:

[planetdavo]

I said weeks ago that I don't care if it hasn't had any power increase I just don't like it when Holden make out they have increased power and have either overstated or no increase at all and have just changed the way they record the power.

Maybe you should lobby the world leaders to enforce a single power recording method......
This subject is hardly important. The fact is the VE HSV's are noticeably quicker than VZ HSV's, no matter what the badge says, and you all should be happy for that, not whether the badge is wrong, or it's done via a different method, or whatever blah blah.....

[killer_taxi]

As we know the power claim for the VE HSV’s is 307kW @ 6000rpm. The interesting thing about these figures is that the LS2 V8 has actually not gained any power (for kW). The VZ HSV’s claim of 297kW @ 6000rpm specification was done in ECE. HSV with the VE series now use DIN. The DIN for the VZ range was quoted by HSV as being 305kW. So to HSV's specifications, the VE range has only gained 2kW. However, this power gain can be related to the use of 98 RON PULP for DIN testing. HSV used 95 RON PULP for the HSV VZ power figures.

[SLugg]

anyone have the conversion from din to ece or sae ?

[Pickles]

Ummm, must me a typo mate, the VZ LS2 only made 297KW (DIN as well afaik), it didnt crack the "300" barrier until the VE.

NO, It's not a "Typo"!- HSV quoted VZ DIN output at 305KW, in various places--I just never noticed it before, but going back through my brochures,(of which I have many!), I noticed the 305 kw quoted in several.
My post was not meant to denigrate VE at all, but just to mention that VZ/VE engines must be fairly similar.
Cheers, Pickles.

[`redoctober]

To be honest I think on paper they'd seem the same, but in reality the E series would rip the Z series a new one.

[Carby650]

I don't think that HSv have really done much wrok on the engine for the VE as they know that they have plenty of pluses in steering , handling , suspension ect. All of these things where going to assist the VE gent the power to the ground much better. Which has already been shown to be so with the performance figures. (0-100 in 5secs)
I think we will see them spend time working on increasing output once they know that they have everything else right. Look for some increases in 2007 I think. This is just an opinion and not based on any information received.

[planetdavo]

It's interesting that when people roll their cars on to the dyno, they only seem to care about the one (highest possible) RWKW readout, whereas suddenly we now have people wanting to debate the various different methods of factory FWKW outputs like they are experts!!!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I actually thought most people on this forum would be quite happy to know that the HSV's now "officially" beat the blue boys cars by 15kW's of the same rated output, not the smaller conservative number they used to......
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

[Fnomna]

anyone have the conversion from din to ece or sae ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

It seems as though there is no conversion between ECE and DIN because these are just the names of the standards under which the kW test is performed.
That is, run an ECE test and you get one number - run the DIN test (different conditions) and you get another number.

It's sort of like comparing the ADR fuel figure to a road test fuel figure - you can't just convert between the two.

Wiki says ECE numbers tend to be higher than DIN.

Interestingly, the LS7 is metioned in the SAE section:


The first engine certified under the new program was the 7.0 L LS7 used in the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06. Certified power rose slightly from 500 hp (373 kW) to 505 hp (377 kW).

[Ghia351]

I may be wrong here ...however I also thought I read that the ECE figure when read off a power curve needs to be an output that can be maintained for a certain time period (not sure how long) and so is not the actual peak figure on the same graph...?

[jwilson]

NO, It's not a "Typo"!- HSV quoted VZ DIN output at 305KW, in various places--I just never noticed it before, but going back through my brochures,(of which I have many!), I noticed the 305 kw quoted in several.
My post was not meant to denigrate VE at all, but just to mention that VZ/VE engines must be fairly similar.
Cheers, Pickles.

Spot on Pickles... no typo at all. The manual for my VZ GTO shows 305kw DIN.

[awddynotodd]

anyone have the conversion from din to ece or sae ?

As far as the actual correction numbers are concerned, the Din Standard will give readings around 3% higher.
The ECE and SAE1349 standard are almost identical in terms of correction.

To demonstrate the difference, the ECE standard uses 990mbars and 25 deg C as the baseline, ie a correction of 1.000. The DIN uses 1013mbars and 20 deg C as the baseline.
So if you are using the DIN standard, and the conditions happen to be 990mbars and 25 deg C, the correction will be 3.17% or 1.032, so a measured 297kW becomes 306.4kW corrected.
There is no fixed difference between the 2 standards, it depends on the actual conditions present during testing, you need both formulas in front of you to compare one to the other.

The Engine Dyno HSV use supports 7 different standards,

TWR
SAE J607
DIN
ECE
EEC
MoTec
SAE J1349

and there is over 4% difference between the least generous to most generous.

[SLugg]

thanks for that its a lot clearer now :bravo: