Is the VE's A pillar dangerous?

[Fnomna]

Just debating this point on http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/showthread.php?t=41850

and since there's quite a few here who have driven or own a VE, I thought I'd get people's opinions.
I think the difference from VT/Z isn't huge. Compared to the difference from VH to VT, it's not a big deal. I think drivers will be aware and just look around the pillar when necessary.

So is it dangerous?
:confused:

[Fusebox]

I believe you have to get used to it and be aware of looking around it, especially when approaching pedistrian crossings. <-- need to be careful with any new modern car infact.

[SSBarney]

Firstly to qualify, I have not driven a VE, so do not know first hand whether the blind spot criticism is warranted or not. But assuming it is..
I think people accept and understand huge blind spots in coupes and two door sports cars.
But for a car that is to be sold as a mass fleet car and mum & dad car it could be quite a danger.
I my self drive with my external mirrors and head turns, perhaps a habit from driving delivery vans years ago.
But I know my missus has her left hand mirror turned in most of the time, when i ask why, she says because she cant squeeze past it in the garage, so i have a pretty fair assumption she doesnt drive by her external mirrors. Shes not a bad driver, I would say shes a fairly average driver on the road.

SO WATCH OUT FOR MUMS DROPPING OF KIDS IN VE's

[Desertraptor]

It took me some time to get used to the Monaros blind spot. It's a new vehicle it will take sometime to get used to things

[Angelo_XLR8]

i didnt have an issue with it when i drove my mates sv6. its no more annoying than the bonnet bulge on the xr8

[EfiJy]

compared to 4wds you mean? :1peek:

[kayman]

drove a gallardo, worse blind spot than a landcruiser... and thats saying something!

[planetdavo]

Many seem to assume it's a purely styling reason, but with increasing safety requirements and also the desire to make a very strong body shell for handling and structural longevity (listen to a VN-VS body shell these days!) more and more cars are like this. Expect to see more of the high bonnet lines like VE as well, as this is a requirement of the new pedestrian impact laws coming in around the world.

[VHSLE]

I have driven a VE for a couple of weeks now and the size of the "A" pillar struck me the first day I had mine while I was driving through Galston George, which is a section of road with a good few hairpin bends which has you looking around every which way. It didn't bother me too much, I just noted that it was thicker.

But since that one time I haven't even noticed it, it's really just not an issue, atleast for me anyway and I use that same bit of road every day.

To clarify I have had 8 VT to VZ's over the last 9 years before getting the VE, so I was very well used to the size of the "A" pillar in that series.

Hope that helps :thumbsup:

Cheers

[AussieTone]

I also have not driven a VE but believe most cars have spots which you must adjust to so as to maintain excellent vision. I would think the VE does not differ from others, ie a matter of getting used to it

[Black AH CDX]

The media is beating this up a bit.

Thank god its nowhere near as bad (yes it is noticeable, but not a big deal on VE) as the terrible Peugeot 407 range which is just plain dangerous IMHO

[Smitty]

I have driven several VEs..the last being a V8 CalaisV
and as I commented to the dealer Sales Manager
luvved it 'cept for 2 things
the burn ya eyeballs out instruments:cussing:
and the lack of vision becoz of the A pillar thickness
its bad..very bad. It had me moving my head around
so I could see to turn corners or go around roundabouts
I am also worried.
Why? I ride a motorbike and I reckon riders should be wary of VEs becoz you simply won't be seen.
bloody dangerous :teach:


cheers

[Mikey]

its no more annoying than the bonnet bulge on the xr8

I thought I was the only one that thought this!

[davidred]

The A-pillar has been no problem from me or my gf. If it was a problem, I'd just resolve to the fact there's an airbag tucked into it so if I was involved in an accident - I'd be grateful for the larger A-pillar size.

[VT LS1]

compared to 4wds you mean? :1peek:


drove a gallardo, worse blind spot than a landcruiser... and thats saying something!




If we are talking A pillars (ie forward vision) Most (real) 4wd have not just good, but excellent forward vision. And as for rear vision, even with the tailgate mounted spare on a patrol, it has better rear vision than a VT sedan by a country mile. The biggest problem with the A pillars in 4WD are that they are not substantial enough to offer propper protection in a rollover, and the reason that A pillars are getting thicker is that windscreens are getting more 'rake' and so they need to be thicker to offer more protection.:teach:
I'll get off my soap box, I am just sick to death of 4WDs being blamed and or used as a worst case scenario for every damn thing that happens in the automotive world.

[piston1]

have only driven a ve for about an hour didnt notice the pillar blocking vision at all but have been driving monaro last 10 months probly use to loss of vision

[Holden Man]

I'll get off my soap box, I am just sick to death of 4WDs being blamed and or used as a worst case scenario for every damn thing that happens in the automotive world.

I heard 4WD's were to blame for 9/11 !

Thick pillars are on all the new cars so it is just the way it is. I think the rake doesn't help either as the magna I drive has a fairly raked windscreen and the angle of the rake seems to follow my sight line.

[peber]

A friend of mine bought an XR8 (BAII) a couple of weeks ago, and he's finding that the pillars are a lot worse in it than his VY.
I sat in it and found the same thing... around corners you really have to move your head around a lot further to see past the pillar.

I haven't *driven* a VE yet, but from just sitting in one I can see what people mean... its certainly more a problem compared to say, my VY.

[kayman]

If we are talking A pillars (ie forward vision) Most (real) 4wd have not just good, but excellent forward vision. And as for rear vision, even with the tailgate mounted spare on a patrol, it has better rear vision than a VT sedan by a country mile. The biggest problem with the A pillars in 4WD are that they are not substantial enough to offer propper protection in a rollover, and the reason that A pillars are getting thicker is that windscreens are getting more 'rake' and so they need to be thicker to offer more protection.:teach:
I'll get off my soap box, I am just sick to death of 4WDs being blamed and or used as a worst case scenario for every damn thing that happens in the automotive world.

Driving the landcruiser has made me realise how bad the "rear" vision is, and as a result im never in the blind spot for more than a second if i can help it, if i have to speed to get in front so they can see me, then so be it. Rearward (this is including rear side windows), i definatly have better vision out of my VT than the cruiser.

[Nickoff]

First test drive in a VE Calias, the first thing my wife commented on were the thickness of the A pillars and potential blind spot, this is coming from a 95 Falcon. Yes they are thicker but I believe you will learn to look past them after a while (Sandstorm Calias V ordered).

[PepeLePew]

No more dangerous perhaps than trying to see out the back window of a standard VX SS through the spoiler!!!!

Plenty of cars have odd blindspots, just VE's spot seems to be forward facing. I test drove a Astra coupe, shocking rear visibility. The VX was pretty good compared to most otherwise.

As for the BA comment I never experienced a forward vision issue, BUT what I did see was the rear angle pulling out onto slip roads can be dangerous, first car I ever bought one of those crappy grandpa bendy stick on mirrors for (for the drivers side external mirror).

[Holdendriver]

FWIW when I got out of the VS into the VU I thought it had a dreadful a pillar blind spot. Nowdays I rarely think twice about it. You just learn to look around more I guess.

[planetdavo]

Some people seem to need yet another reason to have a whinge!
Checkout the vast majority of brand new shape cars released in the last year. They almost all have thick pillars. Get used to it, they are needed for roll over strength.

[Sting]

Recently drove a VE Calais, and I must say that the pillars are thicker than the previous models. But the car is so awesome to drive that little niggles like that don't seem to matter. Otherwise I don't think they are dangerous, but may need a little getting used to.

[Evil LS1]

Many seem to assume it's a purely styling reason, but with increasing safety requirements and also the desire to make a very strong body shell for handling and structural longevity (listen to a VN-VS body shell these days!) more and more cars are like this. Expect to see more of the high bonnet lines like VE as well, as this is a requirement of the new pedestrian impact laws coming in around the world.

A bit like those high bonnets on the new Jaguar and Aston Martins, which pass all new pedestrian safety regs. I'm guessing (hoping) those putrid high bonnets will improve with newer models. Jaguar has shown you don't need these stupid designs.


Recently drove a VE Calais, and I must say that the pillars are thicker than the previous models. But the car is so awesome to drive that little niggles like that don't seem to matter. Otherwise I don't think they are dangerous, but may need a little getting used to.

AH but drive it on a tight twisty road like the old pacific hwy and see what's it's like. I rarely notice the A pillar on my VT in normal city roads, but you do notice how intrusive they can be on those tight roads. Drive seemed to think it was pretty bad.

[planetdavo]

AH but drive it on a tight twisty road like the old pacific hwy and see what's it's like. I rarely notice the A pillar on my VT in normal city roads, but you do notice how intrusive they can be on those tight roads. Drive seemed to think it was pretty bad.

Not really any different to us Monaro drivers...!

[Smitty]

just continuing

in todays Drive article on the SS v Fords 6T and XR8, this issue of the A pillar got a mention again... and I quote
" The only problem when negotiating corners is the thickness of the windscreen pillar which is stronger for better crash protection. ...We just hope it does not cause one" :shock:

further ...
" many customers will find the restricted visibilty off-putting. After 3000kilometres of driving, we were still not accustomed to the obscured front view"

imo....that is not a particularly good rap for the VE...

although Drive's final conclusion..the SS is the best drivers car here....sorta takes some of the sting out of the criticism

[Stevotski]

I have only test driven VE for about 80km, my impression of the A pillar is that it is bigger than what we are used to, but you would adjust to looking around it. If this is the price to pay for increased rollover/crash/chassis stiffness then I am happy to adjust to it.

You would just need to be mindful at pedestrian crossing etc

[VZSS250]

The A-pillar is the VE's achilles heel. Not only is it wide, but the severe rake of the windscreen mqakes the A-pillar even harder to see around. And from the exterior, its intersection with the bonnet is the ugliest part of the car, especially when compared to the VT-VZ.

[vecommo]

Sorry to thread mine, but after driving a VE for the first time I must say that I definitely found this to be a problem. I had a few close calls, mainly approaching roundabouts... the coast seemed clear then all of a sudden I look again and there is a car coming.
It takes a bit of getting used to and I would definitely advise first time drivers of the VE to be extra cautious of this.
Knowing the advantages in strength and safety the thick pillars offer, it is not something that would turn me off the VE though, I would just get used to it and live with it.

[mustanger]

I personally do not think it is a big deal. You just have to adjust . It is like getting out of one vehicle into another type of vehicle.:yup:

[chillicatqld]

..."pass me slippers will ya Elsa".
Christs sake - humans hate change dont they! (but they love to whinge....)

[SSV]

Jumping from a VY to the VE, at first sure it was noticeable,,
After a few weeks you dont even think about it
To be honest, now it doesn't seem to be an issue at all.
:yup:

[Boom]

Reading through the posts it appears that most of the criticism of the A pillar is coming from those that dont drive a VE.
Bit hard to be critical of something that you have no real experience with.
Yes it is a big pillar.
Is it dangerous?
Only if all the vertebrae in your neck have been fused.
Think it took me all of about 10 seconds to get used to.
I love driving the car on winding roads and go out of my way to do it. I think some of the bike riders out there may find some VEs competing for the good riding roads soon.
If the publicity people are going on about it perhaps they should make some comments on how dangerous trucks are. Look at the amount of area that the average truck mirror takes out of the forward and side view of the driver.
If this is the major criticism of the VE then it must be a really good car because it really is an inconsequential issue.

[VZGTO]

I've just got rid of my GTO and ordered a new GTS - have to admit I have been concerned about the a-pillar issue having read about it quite a bit, and have found myself trying to 'look in' to VE's coming the other way on slow roads to see where the visibility cuts out compared to other cars.

When I originally tested the GTS some time back I cant specifically remember being concerned about it, and I'm now encouraged by some of the comments by other Monaro drivers as it could simply be that we are already used to restricted visibility.

Think I need to go back for another test drive....

[hithere]

When I test drove the car, I thought it will be a problem... after owing it and driving it every day in the city, it is not as bad as I expected. Partly due to changing the way I view out the front-side... just swing my head more from left-to-right to double check and all good!

[xploit]

Well,

I had a VY then upgraded to the VE,

The amount of times i almost got T-boned within the first week of picking up the car was astounding because it is dangerous untill you get used too it completely.

After that, your fine.. just take a bit more due care and realise where your blind spots are and adjust just like any other car.

If anything there safer, because if you do get hit, at least theres extra support and curtain airbags.

Dave

[Gorty]

I personally don't find the A pillar too much of a problem, I just make sure I have a good look. The front pillar (between door and windscreen) can be just as bad when turning into a street but these are just a couple of nuances that I am prepared to work around to enjoy my driving of the VE. :)

After reading through this thread again it seems to me that some are talking about the front pillar and some are talking about the rear pillar. Just to clarify why I mentioned both! :nyuk: :nyuk: :banana:

[ADAM 26]

When i drove my one tonner on the street with the pro scoop it blocks out some vision, but you get used to it, and learn to be careful.

iv drivin dads ve senator signature a few times, the whole feel of the car fron the inside is much fatter than my vx. (if that makes any sence).

[mac06]

I personally don't find the A pillar too much of a problem, I just make sure I have a good look. The front pillar (between door and windscreen) can be just as bad when turning into a street but these are just a couple of nuances that I am prepared to work around to enjoy my driving of the VE. :)

After reading through this thread again it seems to me that some are talking about the front pillar and some are talking about the rear pillar. Just to clarify why I mentioned both! :nyuk: :nyuk: :banana:

Just so you know, the A pillar and the front pillar (between the door and the windscreen) are the same thing.

As many have already mentioned, it is unusual to start with but you get used to it. It's a safety feature and ain't gunna change anytime soon.

[Carby]

You tend to notice it at roundabouts and also when travelling at speed around the twisty bits (trying to line up the apex's) but it is something you just work around.

I also find that the B pillar is quite thick as well, and when turning your head to check out the old blind spot you have to lean close to the window to not have your vision restricted by the B pillar.

The motoring Journo's really do make too much of a big deal about it though.

[Factory88]

Rather than being in the A pillar the curtain air bags are located in the top of the 'frame door openings' i.e. across the top of the doors. Although the A pillar does contain the 12mm drain tube for sun roof equipped cars.

[CarlFST60L]

Im not a big fan of the size of it, but I certainly have never felt safer. When you go back and drive previous models, you feel more and more exposed.

[mustanger]

Come on fellas, It is no different to having those big fluffy dice hanging from your rear view mirror:errr: Now some of them block your view:lol:






PS. I know some of you have them :hide:

[boyley]

It can be depending on your physical makeup.

If you are very tall or very short then yes it could be. If you drive a car with your seat very close to the steering wheel then it could be more of a hinderence. I have noticed it is something to be aware of when performing 90 degree turns. But our Honda Accord had the same issue and in the beginning it biothered me but after you grew used to it, it was ok.

[CSP]

First of all... HOLY THREAD REVIVAL BATMAN!!! :D

Second of all, technically, the VE a-pillar isn't much bigger than previous models. The extra so called "blind spot" problem is caused by the window rubbers/moulds around the windows which have gotten a LOT bigger.

Bottom line though, if you're able to move your head while driving, there is no blind spot. I have been driving Commodores since 2000 and am on my second VE and I have no blind spots. I can see every postion outside my car (at car window/mirror level) for 360 degrees out the windscreen, front side windows, side mirrors and windscreen mounted rear view mirror. There is no reason for any blind spots at all.

The bigger concern to me is all the idiots that seem to think mounting a satnav system smack bang in the middle of their windscreen is smart...

[CarlFST60L]

PS. I know some of you have them :hide:

I think its time to name and shame

[macca33]

I've only had a couple of quick drives in a VE and the A pillars don't seem to be too bad. AS CSP says, driving doesn't simply involve sitting still, you do have to move your head around a bit to see things.

I dunno where all of the notions of feeling safer because of improved rollover design come from though - how many collisions involve rollovers? I concede that improving cabin integrity is important, but it is no specific selling point for me. :confused:

Cheers,

Macca

[xploit]

Yeah but macca there isnt going to be much selling point for you for a ve :lol:

You've admitted they dont do much for you, but we will see when they have a manual senator... and/or a manual senator estate wagon :p

Cheers.

Dave

[Wonky]

Due to my disabilities I certainly notice the extra thickness, especially at roundabouts, but just make sure I look as I am approaching and then look again almost straight away so that if there was a car I didn't see due to the pillar I will see it second time.

Most people will have enough natural movement to not have to do that but in my case I have just slightly adapted my driving techique - no biggie! :)

[macca33]

Yeah but macca there isnt going to be much selling point for you for a ve :lol:

You've admitted they dont do much for you, but we will see when they have a manual senator... and/or a manual senator estate wagon :p

Cheers.

Dave

I agree Dave, but it will be the 6-slotter, not the A pillar thickness or resultant improvement in crashworthiness that will influence my decision...:lol:

Cheers