Black oil after only 5,000km's

[dcholden]

Hi Guys,

Long story, but one of my dad's friends who is a mechanic insisted he'd do my oil change for me, which I appreciated. I had the oil changed at 27,000 (I generally do it every 5,000lm) and so today it was changed again at 32,000. It had valvoline put in it last time by my mechanic and a bottle of Nulon E20. My dad's friend was commenting today that the oil was really black when he drained it , he said it looked like it still had it's body, but was just really black.

Any ideas? Does that mean I have sludge in my engine, and should I use something like Nulon's EOF? I'm a bit baffled!

[mido2k]

Doesn't necassarily mean sludge...
U been driving it hard? Are you using a high quality oil filter? Are you sure the oil was infact dropped at last service?

Stupid thing to ask i know, but it has been known to happen

[dcholden]

Doesn't necassarily mean sludge...
U been driving it hard? Are you using a high quality oil filter? Are you sure the oil was infact dropped at last service?

Stupid thing to ask i know, but it has been known to happen

No, I don't drive it harshly at all. I had a genuine Holden filter and Yes, it was definitely dropped, done by my trusted mechanic and I was there waiting for the car as he did it. That's why i'm baffled.

[Ausmartin1]

[QUOTE=dcholden;720941]Hi Guys,
bottle of Nulon E20.

Now there's something that should not be in the oil - ask any oil expert who formulates the stuff for the big oil companies.

If your concerned send it away for oil testing, I think catapillar had a service like that at one time.

[Wonky]

There was an oil expert on here who could do testing but can't think who it was. Someone will know or do a search on oil testing.

[dcholden]

No Nulon went in this time, only Shell Helix ECO 10, 10W30. So what the oil likes like next time it gets dropped, although i'm tempted to take it to my mechanic and use the EOF and dump the oil and filter and fill it up clean.

[Tonner]

if you didn't change the filter but changed the type of oil, and after all of the black oil last time, I would dump it again, and use it in your wifes car. lol.

Btw I once used the Helix too but I didn't like the way the Helix seemed to amplify my little engine rattles, big ks though, staying with Castrol now.

maybe the last oil used had more detergent than the oils it had been useing before to be so black, or that wasn't Nulon .......

[MNR-0]

Could be the fuel its soaked up. If you do a lot of stop start driving that will discolor oil real quick... Its no problem.

[dcholden]

Could be the fuel its soaked up. If you do a lot of stop start driving that will discolor oil real quick... Its no problem.

Think you might be right on the money there. I actually do a lot of short trips in it, work is under 20K return, so it does 9km morning and 9km back at night. And then shopping trips etc are all local, and very short, so only on weekends does it get some decent trips. That's why I make sure I drop the oil every 5,000km.

[Nutter]

Black oil is usually just fuel killing it, if you drop the oil on a gas only car it usually looks like it went in.

Being dirty is not bad it means its removing buildup from other areas, take it easy no big deal.

[macca33]

I change mine every 5000k's and it comes out black. The oil is doing its job and you are doing good by putting fresh stuff in regularly, so there is no worries there.

Cheers,

Macca

[OPPYLOCK]

I worked for Castrol for 10 years blending oil and spent a bit of time in the lab doing testing ect.
Having the oil go black doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem or that the oil isn't still working.
What grade of oil was the Valvoline that your mechanic used, eg 10W/30, 15W/40???
Generally if you use a good quality oil to start with there is no reason to add a treatment like Nulon as most of these types of of products are just an additive package made up of things that are present in most engine oils anyway.
Might want to get some flushing oil (mixture of straight mineral oil and a small amount of Kero). I think most auto stores stock it. Drop your oil, put flushing oil in, let the car idle for 10 mins, drop it and put some Castrol Magnatec in.
Not saying Castrols better than other brands I just know from making it and running it in Gen III's for years that it works.

[VX2VESS]

oil testing, jeeze you blokes just click on sponsors up above

http://mainlube.com/cms/index.php?page=LS1

[Fnomna]

I agree that oil going black quick just probably means the surfactants or whatever they are in the oil are doing their job and keeping all the dirt in suspension - instead of leaving it deposited on your engine's moving surfaces.

When in doubt, consult the bible
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Think I read it there somewhere

[JezzaB]

As vt2vx said contact MainLub or/aka 450kw Adventra. If a bug farted in your oil he could tell you from his tests.

[dcholden]

I worked for Castrol for 10 years blending oil and spent a bit of time in the lab doing testing ect.
Having the oil go black doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem or that the oil isn't still working.
What grade of oil was the Valvoline that your mechanic used, eg 10W/30, 15W/40???
Generally if you use a good quality oil to start with there is no reason to add a treatment like Nulon as most of these types of of products are just an additive package made up of things that are present in most engine oils anyway.
Might want to get some flushing oil (mixture of straight mineral oil and a small amount of Kero). I think most auto stores stock it. Drop your oil, put flushing oil in, let the car idle for 10 mins, drop it and put some Castrol Magnatec in.
Not saying Castrols better than other brands I just know from making it and running it in Gen III's for years that it works.


It was a 10W30. Think I might leave it till next service and then give it a flush if the black oil is normal, which i'm glad it is! I've had it about 9 months, it had 21,000 on the clock when I got it and came with log books and all as well as Holden Certified warranty. I think the longest time between oil changes was just over 12 months, but the car did bugger all km's in that time, and all the servicing was carried out at the same dealer from new.

[Wonky]

There was an oil expert on here who could do testing but can't think who it was. Someone will know or do a search on oil testing.

Think as jezzab says it was 450 kw Adventra.

[OPPYLOCK]

Without testing or someone who knows what their on about it can be quite difficult to tell the difference between used oil and oil that has been burnt or contaminated indicating a mechanical issue.
If your mechanic friend made mention of the colour it might be best to have it checked out as I'm sure he would see enough of it in his profession.
Do you have any engine noise or or does the car blow smoke at any time?
I've always used 15W/40 as I've found 10W/30's a bit thin for my cars.

[Dacious]

Oil black = inside of engine clean. They don't (AFAIK) sell flushing oil anymore, not since they started designing oiling systems properly without sludge traps and using additive packages like detergents. That is something that dates from the days of monograde oils when you'd change grades from winter to summer, and your oil would go like tar.

Lots of short runs with lots of WOT will turn oil black(er) but black oil in a pan is not an issue of itself - use a cheap oil (which Valvoline isn't) and it may be overstressed, but it is dificult to find really bad oil anymore. Fine particles of carbon which are blow-by are suspended in the oil then drop to the bottom or are trapped in the filter. Moisture is also encapsulated and drops to the bottom causing opacity (oil looks murky) when you drain it in a pan.

Adding things like Nulon is pretty counter-productive. If you use a quality oil you are not adding anything worhwhile it doesn't have already. In some instances of incompatibilty the oils' own additives may be consumed neutralizing components of Nulon, meaning they are not able to do their job.

[Blown 454 AWD]

Sorry I didn't comment on to this earlier guys, just got back in the country.

If your oil dirties up quite quickly after an oil change could be from a few reasons.

If your motor wasn't up to operating temperature when drained it, and or you didn't let it drain completely then you could get allot of carry over which will dirty up your new oil quite quickly.

If you left your oil in too long, you could've sludged up your motor a little and the new oils detergent package being fresh will do it's best to clean out the sludge thus dirtying up your new oil quite quickly.

If your new oil has a quite superior detergent package from the old, then it will clean existing sludge and dirty up you oil quite quickly.

All of the above can be recalcified quite easily by just doing the job correctly in the first place.

When ever any oil is changed in anything (motor, gearbox, diff & power steer etc) the oil should be drained and fresh flushing oil (best) or cheap new oil applied, run for a minium of 20 minutes then the flushing oil drained completely and the filter changed, new oil applied and you will find the oil will stay clean on the dip stick for the first 1 to 2000 klms.

Personally I flush my motor with a extreme detergent flushing oil (Mainlube 245) for 2 hours, yes 2 hours, at that stage I think there may still be sludge in my motor I will leave the flushing oil to soak over night to soften the sludge more and run for another 30 minutes then drain, new filter and so on.

I also use the finer Pure One filters to take the larger debris out of the oil that the average filter allows through and have 2 x FilterMag filter magnets completely encasing the outside of my filter with about a 300 kg pull to hold any metal that may be passing.

Remember 80% of wear is caused by erosion from all kinds of debris including metal being forced by the oil flow, through load bearing surfaces, penetrating the oil film, damaging these important areas.

Go the Mainlube web site and download the Filtergram Presentation (http://www.mainlube.com/cms/) and see what happens in side.

I have found that around 80% of motors that have lost compression and are deemed stuffed, can be resurrected to some degree by dramatic flushing as the rings are gummed up with sludge and are not applying the desired pressure to the bore and not sealing correctly, the oil scrapper holes also fill up with sludge and won’t allow the oil to return to the sump after being scrapped from the bore.

This all can be avoided by flushing,

And one last thing, Diesel and Kero are out, both are abrasive and will damage your engine, even though they work well.

Cheers

[spanks]

As vt2vx said contact MainLub or/aka 450kw Adventra. If a bug farted in your oil he could tell you from his tests.

Or could the black be caused by the bug following through and leaving skid marks...lol

[alexcs]

sell the damn car before it becomes a problem :)

just continue chaning your oil and filter every 5k kms along with the scheduled stuff, you cant go that wrong.

[Tonner]

if you didn't change the filter but changed the type of oil, and after all of the black oil last time, I would dump it again, and use it in your wifes car. lol.

Btw I once used the Helix too but I didn't like the way the Helix seemed to amplify my little engine rattles, big ks though, staying with Castrol now.

maybe the last oil used had more detergent than the oils it had been useing before to be so black, or that wasn't Nulon .......
I am in agreeance with 450kAdventura .


Could be the fuel its soaked up. If you do a lot of stop start driving that will discolor oil real quick... Its no problem.

Maybe so Grant, but for the Mechanic to say it was abnormally black, but it still held its viscosity, its more than fuel contamination, or he would not have mentioned it if he thought it was the norm.

well thats what I think,, Btw Good info there 450k..:)