Question for dads with young boys...

[QIKMIK]

To the Dads amongst us,

I was wondering how many of you guys have (or had) young boys that were a bit of a handful at times behaviour-wise, and what you did to discipline them? I was also wondering at what age they started to listen when you told them not to do something so they didn't hurt themselves or others? Will is 2 1/2 and only tows the line straight after being told that he would lose a privilege be it a toy, video, or treat for a specified time. He has also taken to smacking/kicking/head butting others if he doesn't get his way. This in addition to the occasional terrible-twos tantrums that we sort of expected.

A lot of this behaviour has begun since the arrival of young Tomas, William's 5 month old brother. There may be some kind of jealousy involved but there has certainly been no deliberate action against Tomas and Will is keen to help Jodie with caring for him most of the time. We are reading a whole bunch of books on the subject but its always good to grab the opinion of those that have been there. Simple reasoning, time-outs, naughty corner, and (reasonable) smacks on the bum don't seem to have much of an effect and as I said, taking things off him works short term but nothing seems to stick.

Feel free to post or pm

Thanks in advance for your input,

Mick

[`redoctober]

Well, as I'm still young I'll offer you some advice that my parents used to do.

They had a threat, it was a long thick piece of plastic and hurt if you got hit with it (I went over the line once), but basically when I did something wrong they would whack it on a table or bench and the sound it make reinforced the fact that it would hurt like hell. Whenever they used that threat on my brother and I, we stopped dead in our tracks, the same works when you threaten to get said tool.

Hope that helps ;)

-Rob.

[Speedy Gonzales]

Im not a parent but what I cant stand is seeing a kid walk all over a parent and being the one in control when its supposed to be the other way round.

And its worse if you are a parent who hasnt got the balls or guts to know when its time to say thats it, and stand up and be tough.

Kids are smarter than you think, they will cry, throw tantrums, etc etc etc to get their way, its psychological warfare at its best.

Parents of this generation pamper and are way too soft on their kids, they spoil them rotten, same goes for the grand parents, and the kids think they rule the roost and walk over everyone. They dont earn things and believe everything should be handed to them on a silver platter.

I cant help but think that the next generation of kids that grow up, all sense of good values that was taught to previous generations is lost.

[vt2vx]

some head strong independent types may never listen to everything.

2s are the worst for some kids. then have to look foward to the teenage years is the next worst. enjoy the 5 to 12 years.

really can only do what you are doing it should pass eventually. ignore the bad attitude (punish if too bad) praise the good and show lots of love when good. hopefully will learn which is better from that. works for most, but not all.

[seedyrom]

Yeah ... I had such grand plans to be the tough enforcer ... unfortunately its not just me that is a parent, its my wife aswell. There is a mother child bond that is hard to explain, but if you touch her child, she will attack.

I'm watching this thread with interest.

My son is short (bottom 10%) ... but he's a fighter. Any child around him will usually run away with some skin missing and blood showing (bites and scratches when adults arent looking).
From my life experiences people that are shorter, are usually good fighters ... I just didnt realise it stemmed from such an early age. Its amazing - animal instincts.

I look forward to hearing some disciple plans that dont involve child abuse (my boss flicks his childrens cheeks should they mis behaving). I dont know ... the thought of a 40 year old needing to flick a kid in the face seems like a bit of a cop out for proper parenting.

[vt2vx]

I

Parents of this generation pamper and are way too soft on their kids, they spoil them rotten, same goes for the grand parents, and the kids think they rule the roost and walk over everyone. They dont earn things and believe everything should be handed to them on a silver platter.



not wrong. trying to teach them the value of things isn t easy when all thier freinds get everything they want and loads of spending money for doing nothing
no wonder they never want to leave home these days, to much hard work to actually look after yourself. slaves to their own kids

[large]

I have two boys now aged 10 and 8. I am not stating I am the greatest father in the world but I am proud they are going ok at the moment.

Three rules for bad behavior at home.
1. Go to your room
2. Go to your room
3. Go to your room

When out and bad behavior starts pick them up and remove them from the area and put them in the car and try talking to them. 9 times out of ten that wont work but at least you had a go at reasoning with them and asked them what they want. Go for a drive til they and youself settle down.
When they do something good reward them.

You don't need to belt a kid, in my opinion all it teaches them, is that when they are in a postion that they dont agree with then the solution is to hit someone. Speak to anyone with a violent nature and they will say exactly this "my old man used to belt me and I turned out ok".

Reward when good, take away good things when bad.

[seldo]

:lol: Ah Mick...it's great fun isn't it..? The thing you have to remember is that all kids at that age are going through an exponential learning phase, and they are trying to establish boundaries and to learn the results of their actions. The main thing is to be consistent and to explain why if it perhaps has a serious consequence. If you say to him "Don't do that - or I'll give you a whack."...and you don't...he knows that the threat means nothing because there was no result... But if you say to him "don't do that or I'll ...whatever"...you must follow through. I recall saying to my boys "pick up your toys now or I'll throw them out the window..." At first, they just smirked and thought ...yeah..likely.....But then when there was no response from them, they were horrified when I just stood up and bam, bam, bam, threw every one of them out the window into the garden.....There were tears and sobs and "that was my best toy car..." etc. But they quickly learned the lesson that I meant what I said. And the best thing is to remove a treat or priveledge, or make them do something simple that they really hate - like sitting in the corner for 5 minutes doing absolutely nothing...
And please don't be one of those parents who back away from discipline and just say "Now Billy....that's not nice to hit your brother with the hammer..." They let the kids grow up not really having any sense of what's right and wrong..
Have fun - it's all ahead of you mate...:)

[vt2vx]

Yeah ... I had such grand plans to be the tough enforcer ... unfortunately its not just me that is a parent, its my wife aswell. There is a mother child bond that is hard to explain, but if you touch her child, she will attack.

I'm watching this thread with interest.

My son is short (bottom 10%) ... but he's a fighter. Any child around him will usually run away with some skin missing and blood showing (bites and scratches when adults arent looking).
From my life experiences people that are shorter, are usually good fighters ... I just didnt realise it stemmed from such an early age. Its amazing - animal instincts.

I look forward to hearing some disciple plans that dont involve child abuse (my boss flicks his childrens cheeks should they mis behaving). I dont know ... the thought of a 40 year old needing to flick a kid in the face seems like a bit of a cop out for proper parenting.

my 2nd was short bottom 10 also. bigger when born than the first, but tappered off now at 16 shooting up real quick, a year ago his 4 years younger sister was taller than him, late grower.

funny how they are different. oldest spends all his money everyweek good time is all he thinks about, quickest way to do something is good enough. 2nd saves all his money and plans ahead only spends what he has too for a good time, spends the time do things the right way no short cuts.

[Glenn@Autowerks]

Interesting thread, like Seedy said, I'm watching this thread with interest.

Only have 7 kids here, 2 - 16 years old

[vt2vx]

:lol: Ah Mick...it's great fun isn't it..? The thing you have to remember is that all kids at that age are going through an exponential learning phase, and they are trying to establish boundaries and to learn the results of their actions. The main thing is to be consistent and to explain why if it perhaps has a serious consequence. If you say to him "Don't do that - or I'll give you a whack."...and you don't...he knows that the threat means nothing because there was no result... But if you say to him "don't do that or I'll ...whatever"...you must follow through. I recall saying to my boys "pick up your toys now or I'll throw them out the window..." At first, they just smirked and thought ...yeah..likely.....But then when there was no response from them, they were horrified when I just stood up and bam, bam, bam, threw every one of them out the window into the garden.....There were tears and sobs and "that was my best toy car..." etc. But they quickly learned the lesson that I meant what I said. And the best thing is to remove a treat or priveledge, or make them do something simple that they really hate - like sitting in the corner for 5 minutes doing absolutely nothing...
And please don't be one of those parents who back away from discipline and just say "Now Billy....that's not nice to hit your brother with the hammer..." They let the kids grow up not really having any sense of what's right and wrong..
Have fun - it's all ahead of you mate...:)


i remember doing that chucking the stuff outside they wouldn't pickup. oldest could not care the others would get theres and listen the next time, not for everything however, they know mum would clean the rooms up etc but dad wouldn't. so leave stuff for mum when i'm not home. and mum still does too much for them.

oldest still doesn't look after his stuff, but the others do. EG buys cds but leaves them on the floor of the car walks on them stuffs em. leave food in the car for a week. stuff in his room everywhere. lazy arse...

[`redoctober]

:lol: Ah Mick...it's great fun isn't it..? The thing you have to remember is that all kids at that age are going through an exponential learning phase, and they are trying to establish boundaries and to learn the results of their actions. The main thing is to be consistent and to explain why if it perhaps has a serious consequence. If you say to him "Don't do that - or I'll give you a whack."...and you don't...he knows that the threat means nothing because there was no result... But if you say to him "don't do that or I'll ...whatever"...you must follow through. I recall saying to my boys "pick up your toys now or I'll throw them out the window..." At first, they just smirked and thought ...yeah..likely.....But then when there was no response from them, they were horrified when I just stood up and bam, bam, bam, threw every one of them out the window into the garden.....There were tears and sobs and "that was my best toy car..." etc. But they quickly learned the lesson that I meant what I said. And the best thing is to remove a treat or priveledge, or make them do something simple that they really hate - like sitting in the corner for 5 minutes doing absolutely nothing...
And please don't be one of those parents who back away from discipline and just say "Now Billy....that's not nice to hit your brother with the hammer..." They let the kids grow up not really having any sense of what's right and wrong..
Have fun - it's all ahead of you mate...:)
Very true, when I was a kid in the aforementioned story, because I was hit once I thought they would go through with it every time (though they wouldn't), but I sat up and behaved. :yup:

It's a bit weird that people here have kids as old as I am ;)

[macca33]

G'day there Mick.

For what it's worth, as the father of two daughters, 6 & 3, the Terrible Twos are just that.

It is difficult to instill any sort of discipline into the kids at that age, because they still don't have all the comprehension. Certainly, a smack and a yelling may stop the behaviour for a while, but then the 2 year old mind forgets and is into something else.

I've found that restricting the fun, TV, toys, etc works, especially for the eldest, but for the young'n, you'll just have to keep at it. And sometimes, unfortunately, a smack is the only way to get the message across.

Seldo certainly provides good advice on the subject.

Good luck mate, kids are fun AND painful.

Cheers,

Macca

[STATIE]

It's simple really.

1. Don't be a soft c@ck.
2. Treat/train them like you would a dog (praise if good/punish if bad)
3. Warn them once, and if they do it again belt em. No excuses. Everytime.

Biting kids is a pet hate - best way is to bite the prick everytime it bites someone else. You'll only have to do it a couple of times.

I might write a book on child rearing one day - reckon it'll be a best seller.:lol:

[seldo]

.....
It's a bit weird that people here have kids as old as I am ;)
Older even.....;)

[AJR-01]

Hi All,

I'll add my 20 cents worth to this thread. We have a 3 1/2 year old boy, he's the love of our life. He's a very well behave child, we can take him anywhere and know that we don't have to have eyes at the back of our heads. I love having him around and where possible, I take him with me to all car related/motorsport activities. He's never been physically disciplined, however like any child he'll try to push the boundaries. It's up to us as to how far we let him. We're also conscious that child needs to be a child, however be mindfull not to spoil them too much. I think the most important part of raising a child is to make it fun for them, spend as much time with them whenever possible, give them love and direction.

We started the discipline at a very early age, after the first 3 months, sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind and not pick them up the moment they cried. My wife and I agreed on the techniques that we were going to use and maintain consistencies. Both parents has to take active roles. As a father and the only bread winner, I find my time is limited during the week as my son goes to bed, no matter what, no later than 8pm. I have about 1 to 1 1/2 hour with him, so Saturday is my time with him and gives my wife a break as well.

I take him swimming in the morning and treat him at Golden Arches (only time he has junk food in the week). I find it a cheap place as he gets a toy with with his meal, they have a great playground, and I have my latte while he plays. By the time we get home, he's exhausted and sleeps most of the afternoon.

I guess the point I'm making is every child is different and you've got to understand them and them you. Don't under estimate their ability to learn and comprehension. Persist with the time outs, but always explain why they've been placed in time out. The lenght of time for time out is age dependant, if they're 3 yo, time out is 3 min. Confiscate their favorite toy but place it where they can see it. Be consistent so as not to confuse them and be very firm but not threathening.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Arnold

[OVT-057]

Hey Mik , steve here mate, give me a buzz if you get a chance 0418729262

Charlie is 5 1/2 now and the twins Sam and Max are 3 in a week,

Rachel is also due in 5 weeks with the next BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!:bawl:

I might be a bit of a help in this matter.

cheers


steve (ovt-057)

[vt2vx]

It's simple really.

1. Don't be a soft c@ck.
2. Treat/train them like you would a dog (praise if good/punish if bad)
3. Warn them once, and if they do it again belt em. No excuses. Everytime.

Biting kids is a pet hate - best way is to bite the prick everytime it bites someone else. You'll only have to do it a couple of times.

I might write a book on child rearing one day - reckon it'll be a best seller.:lol:

number 3 will get you in trouble with the goodie rights stuff up everything groups.

the good old wack on the butt has worked as the final resort for generations. now getting outlawed. the cane etc used to work well at schools too, now many are out of control at school. never worked for everyone but had less problems than now. i know it slowed me down doing the wrong thing at school. pain is something you remember for doing the wrong thing. reward you remember for the right things. somethings deserve a wack on the butt.

[ls1ozstyle]

My 10 year old like most kids his age mainly respond to being banded from their biggest vice. Whether it be their favourite TV shows or their playstation:yup: . Source out the biggest addiction and go for the juggular:nutkick: :eyes: :bravo: :evil: :evil: :evil:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[X BC X]

I'm watching this thread with interest.





Interesting thread, like Seedy said, I'm watching this thread with interest.



ditto and ditto .........

i have a 2 1/2 week old bub, an im keen to get plenty of 'real life' opinions on this subject for my future dictatorship of the boy :lol:

cheers
bc

[QIKMIK]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone.

I think the basic message here is go for the short term wins while the boys are young and stick to your guns on whatever punishment you dish out.

Jodie and I have been using the "don't do that or you can't do/have..." for a little while and it is immediately effective, just not long lasting. There is usually a collection of toys on the shelf or in the office by the end of the day. The childcare centre has told us that they try and tell the child that whatever they are doing is unsafe/not very nice and that they or someone else might get hurt. William has been using the couch as a trampoline for the last week or so and we continually tell him that he might hurt himself. Last night he crashed into his little table in the loungeroom.....then after a kiss on the head and a "what did Mummy and Daddy tell you...", got back up onto the couch and kept bouncing. Enough to drive you bonkers.

Another quick question while we're at it, when do little boys stop running off at the park/shops/etc? Goanna's little girl, while she will occasionally wander, is happy to sit and eat or whatever at the park. Will was out of the pram for two seconds and we nearly lost him in the crowd. As I said earlier, I am not physically able to keep up with him at the moment so Jodie does all the chasing but the little man is pretty quick. I know that he loves the chase and that us running after him seems like a game but he does it at the shops, in the park, at Maccas (which are generally near a major road :eek: ) and we don't really want to keep him strapped in the pram. My mum bought him a backpack with a tether on it but he liked that even less than being in the pram (super tantrum).

Any ideas?

Mick

[NickS]

Another quick question while we're at it, when do little boys stop running off at the park/shops/etc? Goanna's little girl, while she will occasionally wander, is happy to sit and eat or whatever at the park. Will was out of the pram for two seconds and we nearly lost him in the crowd. As I said earlier, I am not physically able to keep up with him at the moment so Jodie does all the chasing but the little man is pretty quick. I know that he loves the chase and that us running after him seems like a game but he does it at the shops, in the park, at Maccas (which are generally near a major road :eek: ) and we don't really want to keep him strapped in the pram. My mum bought him a backpack with a tether on it but he liked that even less than being in the pram (super tantrum).

Hey Mick,

It's enough to drive you mad isn't it ... but you wouldn't change it for the world :lol:

Our first, Lachie, did the running away thing all the time when we first stopped using the pram. He probably stopped it before he was 3, hasn't done it since, he is 5 in February next year.

One trick I used when he was doing it was I would follow him but not chase him, the chase just made him run faster. Several times I would try and keep out of his sight, as soon as he couldn't see me he would stop straight away. I always kept somewhere that I could see him and then waited just long enough that he was starting to freak out, then I would let him see me again, he always came running straight back.

I think the trick is that they think it's a game, until they can't see you anymore !!! As I said, he didn't do it for long, maybe 3 - 6 months tops. It drove us mad at the time, but like everything else they get over it and we don't really even think about it anymore. Lachie's little brother Alex, who has just turned 2, never does it ... no idea why. He is quite happy to wander along next to us ???

Good luck mate, cheers

Nick

[KeenGolfer]

Mick, it's tough sometimes isn't it? Damien sometimes throws tantrums in public, and always wants to run off. We've found that for tantrums the best thing in our case is to distract him with something else. If he's just chucked a tantrum because he wanted a toy or something which we wouldn't buy, you distract him by talking/doing something he loves. Damien loves trains, we keep a Thomas in the bag, chucks a wobbly ask him if he wants his train, show it to him, other thing forgotten. You can't talk to a 2/3 y.o. that is throwing a tantrum.

Running off is another story, still trying to figure out the best way of stopping that.

[AussieTone]

Mine are now 27 and 23. In no way do I profess to be an expert but I did pick up a few things along the way. Unfortunately being a parent does not come with an instruction manual. It is very much a case of trial and error. Some ways will work for some kids and others will not. I also believe it is harder today than it was 20 years ago what with all the do gooders sticking their nose into everything, especially things that have nothing to do with them. Few points to consider

Terrible 2’s lasts quite often till they are about 4

Be consistent especially if you have more than I child.

Don’t fall into the trap of not following anything you ‘threaten’. In other words don’t come out with something like ‘if you do that again I will ……. And when they do it again you don’t follow up on what you said

Try and split the time spent with each child evenly (very hard when you have a new baby as the tendency is to show it off to all and sundry

Praise is just as important as criticism

Never be too proud to ask advice / help. Family support is worth its wait in gold in these occasions

Be sure that your kids know where the line in the sand is.

Good luck

[clarkey62]

Just a quick thought guys. Sending a child to his/her bedroom these days is no punishment at all. Its like saying " you've been naughty, now go to Luna Park" Most children have their toys, playstations etc. in their rooms so a friend of ours sends her kids to the laundry. Obviously make sure all poisonous things are secure, as they already should have been. It doesnt take long as there is absolutely nothing for a child to occupy him/herself with in the laundry.

[swingtan]

Hi All,
some good advice here. I have 2 girls ( can't wait till the teen years !!! NOT ). Here's what my wife and I try to do......

Start Early: It's never too early to lay the ground rules. The sooner you start, the sooner they learn. Consistency: Be kids will never learn if you keep moving the goal posts. Work out what you think is OK and what isn't and stick too it. Minor revisions are OK but don't reinvent the rules all the time. Backup You Partner: For those who share parenthood ( not single parents ) you need to backup up your partner. The sooner kids realise they can't play you off against each other the sooner they will accept what you say. Send a Clear Message: This is really important. If you want your child to know your are serious, they need a clear indication. If your "normal" behaviour is to yell and scream around the house, how do the kids know when you are angry at them ? If you are normally calm and relaxed, kids will be able to tell very quickly when your mood changes. Bluffing doesn't work: Never bluff a kid. As `redoctober said, the only reason his parents didn't need to smack him more was that he got smacked once. If you use the 3 warnings system and there's been no improvement, follow through with the punishment. The sooner kids realise you will do what you say, the sooner you only need to say it once. Patience at all Times: You need so much of this it's not funny. Kids see things differently and understand less that we do. They don't understand consequences of actions and only live for what is going to happen in the next 5 min ( or 5 seconds ). Let kids have time to learn before coming down on them. Start with a "friendly" warning and ramp up to actually punishment if needed. There's no need to come down like a ton of bricks in the first instance. Follow Up on Discipline: Discipline doesn't stop with the punishment. You must follow up on what the punishment was for, ( and that doesn't mean more punishment ). After giving them time to think things over sit down with them and talk about why it happened and how not to let it happen again. Apologise When You are Wrong: It's going to happen, we are only human and every once in a while we all snap. Let your kids know you were wrong and that you are sorry for getting angry.


Remember that kids learn by example. They will watch you and follow what you do. If you show them a good example, they will follow. If you give them clear boundaries, they will respect them. Most importantly, spent time with them and enjoy parenting.

Simon.

[HSVREDSLED]

Ahh the pleasures of parenthood.

Remember the term attention seeking??? This generally is the cause of most drama with kids. They behave badly, and this gets your attention. The belt comes out, and this is 'attention' as well. The child does not care what form the attention comes in, (praise, reward, smack on the bum), just that it comes.

I began parenting with the tough stance, (ie) that I would get the belt out and discipline my kids the way my father did and all that stuff. The most important thing to remember, is that kids are individuals and there is no one method. Someone mentioned before that bringing up kids was like raising a dog. In some ways, very true, remembering that some dogs learn best by reward (schmackos etc) and others react by punishment.

Yep, some kids will react to 'the belt'. My youngest does and it is very effective. The eldest...forget it. You could stand there and belt your frustrations to your hearts content for nil result. We have not hit our eldest for some time now because of this and we never will. Yep, we have had dramas, but we have learned that removing priviledges works better. Remember, if your childs rooms are anything like ours, there is a plethora of things to take. If need be, strip the room of everything except clothes and bed. Let them earn their toys back.

In summary, your kids are individuals. Try different methods, find one that works.

[FFH]

Everyone will have their own opinions and methods of dealing with children. My boy is just coming up to 4yrs old now so it wasn't that long ago I was where you are now (it does get better, honest!) but he still has his moments.

Our method's were:

Start at asking why he did that, make him see that it was wrong. If that didn't work:
Yell at him to not do it (Sometimes a loud strong voice is scary enough). If that didn't work:
Threaten him with loss of privileges. If that didn't work:
Threaten to place him in the naughty chair or in his room etc etc. If that didn't work:
Remove privileges (As per previous threat). If that didn't work:
Send him to the naughty chair (As per previous threat). If that didn't work:
Threaten to smack him. If that didn't work:
Smack him (Do not bash him, I am sure you wouldn't but there is no need to bash the living shit out of him).

If all of that doesn't work there are two more extreme options:

1. Take him out for an Ice cream, but don't get him one because he has been naughty (it's a little cruel but they remember this one for a loooong time).
2. Call Santa and tell Santa he has been a naughty boy and is not to get any presents (this one they remember too).

Not all children are the same mate and it will take some experimenting to find out what he doesn't like.

Perhaps if he doesn't respond well to being sent to bed, or going to his room, put him in a corner standing. Make sure he doesn't lean up against the wall. Make him sit cross legged on a particular tile. Take away his favourite toy.

There are a lot of different options there, but pain seems to be right up there for working. But losing a genuine treat, such as going out for ice cream, seems to work very well.

Just my 2c worth. :)

[BarneyG]

ditto and ditto .........

i have a 2 1/2 week old bub, an im keen to get plenty of 'real life' opinions on this subject for my future dictatorship of the boy :lol:

cheers
bc

Here is some food for thought.....Apart from the typical discipline, ie 'time-out', 'toy removal', 'go to your room' and 'smacking'.. It has been proven time and time and time again, that alot reasons children are naughty is simply due to DIET yes that's right DIET.

I've seen a couple off documentaries, where they load the children up with cordial, party food, lollies and so forth, then let them play together, there was nothing short off fighting, bullying and general trouble:bawl: .

Weeks later they put the same kids on a diet free from, preservatives, additives, high sugar content and so forth, then they let them loose again, the response was unbelievable the cohesion and interactions between the children was nothing short of extraordinary.:)

[CarlFST60L]

One really good book springs to ming

People Skills by Robert Bolton

The book is a compilation of just about every study of human behaviour.. im not a much of a reader, but that book has certainly changed my life

[Trek52]

Great topic as my wife and I are talking about having kids !!!

From my experiance growing up the biggest punishment I had was disapointing my parents. I had/do have a great relationship with both of my parents, they spent hours with us kids growing up and we all had very strong relationships with them.
If I got sent to my room it was punishment because I had upset my parents, no matter how many toys etc were in there I knew I was in trouble because mum and dad were upset with me, this in turn modified my behaviour cause I didnt want to upset them further. I hope this make sense :)

Through out childhood and into adults my parents managed to raise 3 kids that have all been to uni and have have settled adult lives (except my child like appreciation for burnouts). This was not done on the back of money as we lived on the poverty line most of our lives.

I cant wait to be a parent and hope I can build a relationship like my parents did with me. Or maybe I am a mummys boy ???

[AndrewW]

I've seen a couple off documentaries, where they load the children up with cordial, party food, lollies and so forth, then let them play together, there was nothing short off fighting, bullying and general trouble:bawl: .

Weeks later they put the same kids on a diet free from, preservatives, additives, high sugar content and so forth, then they let them loose again, the response was unbelievable the cohesion and interactions between the children was nothing short of extraordinary.:)

Absolutely!

My little girl turned 1 four weeks ago, and my boy turned 2 on the weekend.

They both ate a stupid amount of crap at my girl's birthday party, and the difference in my son's behaviour in particular was scary.

We are pretty good at moderating his diet, but this really drove home the fact that the artificial colourings and preservatives in today's foods can really mess with a kids behaviour.

Andrew.

[NickS]

Agree 100% re the diet, our guys are great with what they eat, neither will touch softdrink, they love fruit and eat it by the truckload and treats are for special occasions.

Had a family BBQ yesterday and they filled themselves up on crap, there were tantrums, toy throwing and fights half of the afternoon. The other half they were hyperactive and running around stupidly ... no treats for a few days I think.

:yup:

[Elite SS]

Interesting thread, like Seedy said, I'm watching this thread with interest.

Only have 7 kids here, 2 - 16 years old


If anyone can give advice it should be you Glenn...

I have met your Family on a few occasions... I have nothing but praise for you and Kylie...
Fantastic kids very well behaved...and a pleasure to be with...a credit to you both...as Parents...

Cheers

Goran

[jkgmh]

Agree 100% re the diet, our guys are great with what they eat, neither will touch softdrink, they love fruit and eat it by the truckload and treats are for special occasions.

Had a family BBQ yesterday and they filled themselves up on crap, there were tantrums, toy throwing and fights half of the afternoon. The other half they were hyperactive and running around stupidly ... no treats for a few days I think.

:yup:
Nick the problem is like you say at parties or when they go to Nana and Grandad's place. They give them all sorts of crap (even though they know we don't) and they run amok. Then they wonder why the kids ball when we pick them up to take them home ? " They were fine for us ".

Derr - because you let them do and have what ever they wanted...

I know they are kids so they get treats, but it is not all the time.

[Elite SS]

I must agree with everyone here when it comes to sweets and Grand parents
they are like Drinking and driving..they do not mix..:)

Diet with kids have a big impact with behavior regardless how well the kids
are dissiplined...keep it moderate..give them as much as they need NOT as much as they want...

Cordials, lollies, Fairyfloss(especially):bounce: :bounce: :bounce: DO NOT benefit the parents....:shock:

They are the kids, it's up to the parent to have the control...like said before too many kids today are spoiled very young and the parents suffer in the long run...Take control now and you will have control later...

[redss]

I work with a lot of young people and families who have difficulty with kids behaviour. Here's a few things I often encourage parents to consider:

1. Consistency is a MUST. By you, your wife, nan and pop, the babysitter, and even later on the school (as much as possible anyway). Can be a very tough gig when you are tired and cranky!

2. Pick your battles. Choose which fight you are willing to have. Some behaviours are best ignored (e.g. nagging, showing off). If you choose to use something like time-out for a behaviour, you have to follow through, otherwise you do more harm than good.

3. Do not ignore aggressive behaviour. Consequences for this need to be clear and consistent - e.g. "Little jimmy because you hit your sister, you are going to time-out". Don't accept little jimmy's pleas for leniency, as this sets up an expectation for next time. He must be kept in time-out at least until he is settled.

4. Model good behaviour. If you don't want your child to yell and scream, then as much as possible, don't yell and scream at them. Kids are like sponges, and when they are toddlers, the main role models in their lives are generally their parents. Consider what this implies when thinking about smacking too.

5. Finally the MOST important thing: show them love. If all a child ever knows is cold hard discipline, then two things are likely to happen: a. they will misbehave to get attention (yes, even negative feedback is beeter than none at all for kids), and b. they will not have a role model to learn how to show affection to others.

There is a good book that is not very well known that I have used at work for a while now: "Parenting the Strong Willed Child" by Rex forehand and Nicholas Long. Good, realistic strategies. Parents have found it very helpful.

Good luck, and I hope some of that might help. And remember, there's no such thing as a perfect parent.

Cheers

Pete

[Jargle]

being a parent the most rewarding and frustrating part of life, and as has been mentioned before there is no right or wrong way and every child is different what works for the first one doesn't neccasarily work for the next.

Discipline from an early age is very important if you threaten do something when they do something wrong then you must carry it out whether it be a smack on the bum, loss of privleges whatever way you and your wife decide to go, it is also very imprtant for you and your wife to support each other in this as if one of you weaken or question it the opportunity is gone.

I think diet plays a big part in how some children behave red cordial/soft drinks is something my 12 year old will not get as I know it hypes him up.

Just remember the good times will out weigh the bad times and be positive and make sure they know you love them.

good luck

[QIKMIK]

One really good book springs to mindWe are reading one called "Bringing up boys" by Dr James Dobson. Apparently he's written a few others but this one he narrows down to sons.

Mick

ps - glad this thread is becoming useful to others as well as myself. :thumbsup:

[R8VX2]

If one of our kids is misbehaving badly we start by giving them a slow count to 3. Once we reach 3, the wooden spoon comes out and they get a single smack with the flat of it on the back of their legs (just hard enough to sting). Sounds harsh, but after the first smack they learn quickly that a count means it's time to stop what they're doing and to start behaving. It's very rare that we ever get to the stage of using the wooden spoon.

My eldest two (16yr old and 11 yr old) have probably had the wooden spoon 3 or 4 times each. My youngest (3 yr old) hasn't ever had it - he's seen the effect of the count (not the wooden spoon) on the older kids.

[breakthelaw]

Just be careful with any physical punishment. I have recently had a client ( I am a lawyer) who was charged with assault after hitting his son with a leather belt. Just a fairly gentle tap on the thighs after the boy caused a deep gash to his brother's leg by hitting the brother with a Tonka Truck.

The belt left a bruise that was seen by somebody with a gripe against the father who then reported it to police who interview the boy (eight years old) and then charged my client. I was able to get the charge dropped based on a defence in the Queensland Criminal Code that allows 'reasonable' force to be used by parents punishing children - what is reasonable depends on the circumstances. But the stress on the client was major as was the cost, i.e. around $3,000.00.

Using any impliment to hit with, e.g. belt, wooden spoon etc. is more likely to get you in trouble with the law as is any kind of mark or bruise. Some children bruise very easily.

I don't mean to suggest hitting children or what my client did was O.K. - however I do believe my client that the belt was used pretty gently - I saw the photos taken by the police and the bruise was very difficult to see.

The law in other States may be totally different. I am only familiar with Qld law and I do not provide this information as advice and it should not be taken that way. See a lawyer if in any doubt.

[AndrewW]

I thought long and hard about replying to this thread (apart from my previous post about food additives ..)

I'm just giving my point of view, not lecturing, so please no flaming.

I really don't see how it can be justified to use any form of violence (or even threat of violence against a child). Before I go any further, I will honestly state that I have hit my son on the hand 3 times in his 2 years of life, and it has killed me every time I have done it. On each occasion, it was a lashing our response, and I regretted it immediately.

How is a child supposed to learn that hitting/bitting etc is bad, if the punishment is for them to be hit ?

I agree that children should respect their parents, but they should not have to fear them.

Look at it this way, think how truly scared a little kid must be if one of the two people that he loves more than life itself does something to them that causes them pain ?

People might justify it with "I only hit him lightly" but kids are only small, and a little tap must hurt like a bastard. Combine that with the feeling of fear they must get when they sense their parents anger and I really don't see how it can be helpful to the situation.

Anyhow, now that my little one is entering his terrible 2s, I am turning to books for advice to control the occasional tantrum. I have definitely learnt that 4-6 pm is the witching hour, and it is very important to not plan any important activities, or to get him worked up at that time of day.

Kids really should come with an instruction manual :)

Andrew.

[Elite SS]

Kids really should come with an instruction manual :)


Just remember every one..the kids carry both our Genes...so we should look at each other before we suggest a punishment for them...(or the milkman in some cases)
Using physical force with implements doesn't do you or them any justice...
all they will do is rebel....
For the one's that do not have kids..it is a huge difference in a real life situation...no FAIRY TALES here...kids can be as pleasant as agonising,
we just have to learn to control them and learn to keep our temper with them...

I have 2 Boys 14 & 5 and like most of us hear I know excatly what every parent is talking about...

my 2 c worth anyway...

[Holdendriver]

Nick the problem is like you say at parties or when they go to Nana and Grandad's place. They give them all sorts of crap (even though they know we don't) and they run amok. Then they wonder why the kids ball when we pick them up to take them home ? " They were fine for us ".
.

Ever think your parents are getting you back?? Think about the crap you gave them for 18 or so years!!!

Seriously though there are 2 sides to this story, the G/K's never get lollies chips coke etc etc when they are with us they get enough of that at home and school ( even though the kids think they don't) We are old fashioned eaters who have home made meals most every day (Ive got a great wife) and the G/K's like it over here because they get fruit (yes fruit) that is fresh and there is always plenty of variety. They get outside help in the garden etc, something they never do at home. Funny thing here the TV only works at night except for news channel sometimes during the day, no computer games etc here.

I dont believe they have an outside when they are at home just a bedroom with every conceivable toy in the world.

I guess I am old because I agree 100% with Statie. Then again we had uncrossable boundaries when we grew up and had them for our kids too.
When the young bloke was about 18 he raised a hand to his mother, he never has since and never will again.....
Sometimes aversion therapy is the only method, this applies more to older children than those of the original poster..
Cheers,

Edit: never disagree with you better half in front of the kids about anything.

[seldo]

Just slightly OT, but also remember that for young kids, every day is a new adventure, and they are just like sponges absorbing evrything they experience - good or bad. Just think back to your own experiences as a child and you will find that people's adult attitudes reflect those that they grew up with. How many times do you read in the paper that some guy is charged with belting his missus, and the defence is that he grew up with his father belting his mother....
Also, make the effort to DO things with your kids - give them your time. It is amazing the things that we adults take for granted, but to kids it is a wonderful new experience. I was talking about old-times recently with my kids (34, 32 & 27) and they started saying things like .."Remember the time we stopped beside the road at Glen Innes and threw snow-balls....." Snowballs? :shock: Then...slowly it all came back to me.....because to me it was nothing out of the ordinary, but to young kids it was an indelible experience that they'll carry for the rest of their lives... So, try to make an effort to take your kids places and do things with them, so that they have these wonderful memories to take with them into their lives. And of course - love them! Never miss an opportunity to give them a hug and tell them that you love them....even after they've just scratched the side of your pride and joy.... or as one of my partners had - his young girls wrote both their names along both sides of his car with stones...about 400mm high....:shock: ...and of course had no idea who'd written their names... Ahhh...kids...as my old man used to say to me..."Sometimes I wish you were twins so I could bash your heads together..." :lol:

[clubbie]

Mick,

As per previous posts discipline needs to start early in life.

Various methods mentioned "time out" "removing toys" etc etc etc all will work and sooner than you might think.

Only problem is that the wife/grandparents/babtsitter dont follow the discipline routine that you find works. End result is they get away with every thing during the day then you come home at night/weekends and try to discipline them for bad behaviour and the kid is confused. For example it was OK to throw the toys around the play area all day and wife/grandparents/babtsitter might say "please dont do that" where as you would "carry out the discipline necessary". It confuses the kid.

So everyone involved needs to know the plan. In my case it was removing favourite toys (storing them in the boot of the car) and only bringing them back when my sons behaviour improved after an hour. My wife cried more than my son the first time she had to do this (he was crying throwing tantrums etc). Only ever had to do it a few times and when my wife saw the results she was keen as to take away the toys. After a while just the threat of removing toys was enough for improved behaviour.

Kids will play one parent against the other. So dad disciplines and mum gives out the hugs. Wont work. You have to work as a team where both of you agree to the discipline method and stick to it.

Also a big no no is dont threaten them and not follow through otherwise you are training them that all discipline is hollow and no action is taken.

BTW as they get older they understand better and behave accordingly.

Clubbie

[QIKMIK]

Mick,

As per previous posts discipline needs to start early in life.

Various methods mentioned "time out" "removing toys" etc etc etc all will work and sooner than you might think.

Only problem is that the wife/grandparents/babtsitter dont follow the discipline routine that you find works. End result is they get away with every thing during the day then you come home at night/weekends and try to discipline them for bad behaviour and the kid is confused. For example it was OK to throw the toys around the play area all day and wife/grandparents/babtsitter might say "please dont do that" where as you would "carry out the discipline necessary". It confuses the kid.

So everyone involved needs to know the plan. In my case it was removing favourite toys (storing them in the boot of the car) and only bringing them back when my sons behaviour improved after an hour. My wife cried more than my son the first time she had to do this (he was crying throwing tantrums etc). Only ever had to do it a few times and when my wife saw the results she was keen as to take away the toys. After a while just the threat of removing toys was enough for improved behaviour.

Kids will play one parent against the other. So dad disciplines and mum gives out the hugs. Wont work. You have to work as a team where both of you agree to the discipline method and stick to it.

Also a big no no is dont threaten them and not follow through otherwise you are training them that all discipline is hollow and no action is taken.

BTW as they get older they understand better and behave accordingly.

ClubbieExcellent advice! Jodie and I have discussed the whole discipline issue and are reading from the same sheet most of the time. Luckily for us, her parents are also happy to go along with our wishes, if no more so as their house is a lot less "kid friendly" than ours (cream carpets, nice garden, things in reach).

Mick

[APCLB]

As a parent of a pigeon pair,I never really believed in the star sign bs.
Now I do,to a large degree.Your young bloke isn't an Aries is he by chance?
My Dad,son & daughter are Aries & it drives me nuts at times :bawl: they are so head strong!But you learn to live with it,or around it lol.So have alook at the star sign crappola,you may find some kind of reason there maybe.
Also I'm very firm on anti-macca's & all that other fast food crap out there,lucky if they see it once a month as a reward of sorts,if you can call it that. :spew:
Sounds like your young bloke is abit hyper,I know this may sound stupid,but it worked for us,again to a very large degree.No tomato sauce,bbq sauce with dinner,all vege's & no frozen processed chicken or meat crap.All fresh stuff.
My young bloke used to go ape after T,cut out all that junk stuff with preservatives,heaps of sugar etc etc & see if it makes a difference.
As with punishment,again what has been mentioned before by alot of folks is to take a prized possesion off them,the 360,the mobi phone etc etc.
And most of all,I go to great lengths as to why we ask them not to do certain things,explain the consequences & basically let them know how much they do mean to you both.:)

[Savannah]

not wrong. trying to teach them the value of things isn t easy when all thier freinds get everything they want and loads of spending money for doing nothing
no wonder they never want to leave home these days, to much hard work to actually look after yourself. slaves to their own kids

Was pointing this out to our 16 yo just this afternoon. Our's sounds very similar to your teenager.


It's simple really.

1. Don't be a soft c@ck.
2. Treat/train them like you would a dog (praise if good/punish if bad)
3. Warn them once, and if they do it again belt em. No excuses. Everytime.

Biting kids is a pet hate - best way is to bite the prick everytime it bites someone else. You'll only have to do it a couple of times.

I might write a book on child rearing one day - reckon it'll be a best seller.:lol:

I was horrified at first but then......:lmao:


Mick, your young fella is just jealous of your new arrival. This, like all unpleasant behaviours (ie running on to roads I used to smack for that one it only takes one car...) they need to be nipped in the bud and early. By the time he's 3 he's stronger, smarter & faster it'll be harder to deal with. And you may have a lifetime of hell because your yungun can't accept his sibling. Like at lot family troubles as parents the first question we should be asking ourselves is - am I contributing to this behaviour in some way minor or major? Are my behaviours triggering his is it someone elses? By this I mean is he feeling a little left out? I'm not suggesting that it's always parents fault but looking at the bigger picture, the family unit. You may not realise your even doing it amazingly they pick up sublte changes. Perhaps asking him to help with your baby (make sure he is supervised closely) he'll feel like he's very much important and make him feel good about the baby. This problem won't go away or he'll grow out of it, it needs some proactive strategies in getting lovingly tough with him. It's great that you and your partner are on the same wavelength with discipline & have willing grandparents for help.

I loathe the toddler and teenage years :errr: , primary school years are SO much easier! This site may of be some help http://www.cyh.com/Default.aspx?p=1 , if it all gets too much a professional doesn't hurt either, don't be embarrassed about asking for help parenting successfully is THE toughest job. I'm sure they'll grow up to fight each other but love each other, sometimes kids need a little guidance when they are little.

Cheers Savvy.

[DaveHAT]

Thanks to Mick for starting this thread and especially to all who have contribued thus far, even Statie (I think :lol: )

Our little soldier has arrived at the terrible 2's at the ripe old age of 16 months !:shock: Tantrums, almost constant whinging and so forth.

We are currently trying the removal of incentive and reward thingy as a means of instilling some form of discipline yet I feel he may be too young to grasp it. Oh well stick to the simple philosophy that whatever doesn't kill me can only make me stronger I guess? :lol:

[V8R]

Man what a good read..
Our eldest (girl) is 6, she is pretty good, but things can go to hell (not listening, getting shitty and brooding) is she is hyped up with her brother or up on sugars..

As for the boy (5, and taller and heavier than his sister. Definate front row material), he is very smart and inquisitive. Also strong (and he knows it!) and not afraid to have a lash..
He is the one who requires a continual iron fist. But we have found for our kids, the two biggest keys are diet and keeping their brains active.. when they get bored (tv and shit doesnt last), they get miscivious..

as for the speeeling, its late at theend of a long weekend ;)

PS: Terrible 2's have been going on and off for 3yrs now with Mini-V8R

[heavychevy]

It's simple really.

1. Don't be a soft c@ck.
2. Treat/train them like you would a dog (praise if good/punish if bad)
3. Warn them once, and if they do it again belt em. No excuses. Everytime.

I might write a book on child rearing one day - reckon it'll be a best seller.:lol:

Some advice from a child that was treated this way.
Think it's funny?
I left home early and thank heaven I did, because the outcome would have been a disaster if I had stayed. But for the grace of God I never layed a hand on my father and may have been in serious trouble if I had not walked away.
30 years later we are pals but he knows he f@cked up

[seldo]

Some advice from a child that was treated this way.
Think it's funny?
I left home early and thank heaven I did, because the outcome would have been a disaster if I had stayed. But for the grace of God I never layed a hand on my father and may have been in serious trouble if I had not walked away.
30 years later we are pals but he knows he f@cked up
True. I was also brought up the same way and left home at 17 for all the same reasons and didn't speak to him for many years... I used to get belted at the same time as the instruction was given....just so I didn't forget..
But, at the same time, it didn't hurt me either. Remember the old adage "Spare the rod - spoil the child"? There's some truth in that too - But there's certainly a happy medium..

[heavychevy]

a happy medium or things in moderation :yup:

I took exception to

3. Warn them once, and if they do it again belt em. No excuses. Everytime

[BionicXR6T]

Yep, I remember getting a a few floggings when I was a young bloke:bawl:

But I'll be honest, I dont ever remember getting one when I DIDNT deserve it:yup:
And something else to think about.....
Despite what the do-gooders reckon, I dont think it left me emotionally scarred for life

[vyss2ute]

Some advice from a child that was treated this way.
Think it's funny?
I left home early and thank heaven I did, because the outcome would have been a disaster if I had stayed. But for the grace of God I never layed a hand on my father and may have been in serious trouble if I had not walked away.
30 years later we are pals but he knows he f@cked up

Totally agree. I know alot of my mates that had "tough love". Most of them have gotten over the emotional damage that had been beaten into them whilst they were growing up but you can still it in them. Yeah I got the odd smack here and there when I deserved it but there is no need to heavy hand belt the crap out of them. Hitting a child shows them that violence is acceptable. Kids copy what they see around them and it sticks with them. Little Billy gets hit by dad for doing the wrong thing.....next day at playgroup little Billy hits another kid (girl or boy he dosen't know its wrong) for doing the wrong thing by him. It plants the seed.

Friends of mine had troubles with their young fella. Going through the 2 to 3's. Hypo all the time, tantrums etc...
Biggest thing that helped them out was a complete diet change. Out went the processed, sugar rittled crap that graced the plates for most meals and in came the veges, lean meats and wholegrain breads/cereals. Not only did his behaviour change for the better, he was alot more attentive, patient, quieter and slept much better. As simple as that! No more coke and maccas. Heaps more freash juice and veges. Fish should also be a major part of the diet as it is fuel for a developing mind which will improve learning and problem solving skills. Alot more parents should be looking at the diet and not turning to the quick "rittalin" solution. It may take alittle for the child to accept the diet but it is worth it. Thanks to the diet change he is quite an atheltic young boy now, and loves getting outdoors kicking the ball around and playing. Before all he wanted was to be loud and destructive.

Adam

P.s This is a great thread for an up and coming father like myself! Thanks for the input!

[large]

In my opinion violence creates violence. Belt a kid and he will belt other kids. You just don't need to.
Belting kids is when mum and dad have lost control, not the kids!

[SSBarney]

In my opinion violence creates violence. Belt a kid and he will belt other kids. You just don't need to.
Belting kids is when mum and dad have lost control, not the kids!

So true,
if we have to resort to physical punishment on a 2 year old because we cant control them, what are we teaching our children. If someone doesnt do what u want smack them, hit them or what ever else it takes..... especially if ur physically bigger and stronger. Thats what i think physical discipline teaches kids.

Those young years are where we create the sub concious responses to issues we will encounter in our life. Sadly, thats why its common to repeat poor upbringing.
The physically abused often become violent parents, the molested often become molesters.

Of course a two year old is demanding, they want your attention and all of it. And when you have a new bub enter their world then the attention is being competed for.


Just be careful with any physical punishment. I have recently had a client ( I am a lawyer) who was charged with assault after hitting his son with a leather belt. Just a fairly gentle tap on the thighs after the boy caused a deep gash to his brother's leg by hitting the brother with a Tonka Truck.
.

I wonder where the boy learnt to hit people with weapons:confused:

Why does an adult 3 times the size of a child need a weapon to "gently discipline" a child.

[STATIE]

Hey - what I said earlier was said partly tongue in cheek, but basically all these parents blaming coco pops and cheese burgers for turning their kid into terrorists are fooling themselves because its easier to blame Kellogs and Macca's than themselves. Food may contribute to the problem but it aint the cause in most cases -YOU are.

Those people trying to philosophize with a toddler - how much of that crap do you think they REALLY understand - "Do good" = reward & "Do bad" = punish, they will understand 100%. Reward & Punish can be in varying degrees of severity to match the situation, and yeh a smack in the back of the head or a kick in the arse may suit the situation.:slap:

I would much rather whack a kid once every couple of months if they decide to test the system than have 30 instances a day of screaming, arguing, putting in a corner, locking in their bedroom, taking their toys off them, kids continually screaming & crying, parents stressed off their tits etc etc.I know which one will emotionally scar them the most. I rarely have to whack my kids because they know 100% that I WILL if the situation is justified - no yelling, no screaming no anger, no fuss.

In my experience it is the kids with the liberal hairy fairy type parents that are the problems both when they are young and when they are older.
All I can say is that when I go into a bank, restaurant etc I guarantee my kids wont be the ones running amuk, screaming, throwing tantrums and biting other kids.





All this advice and much more will be available in my soon to be released book due for release just in time for the christmas happy season.:xmas:

[SLugg]

It's simple really.

1. Don't be a soft c@ck.
2. Treat/train them like you would a dog (praise if good/punish if bad)
3. Warn them once, and if they do it again belt em. No excuses. Everytime.

Biting kids is a pet hate - best way is to bite the prick everytime it bites someone else. You'll only have to do it a couple of times.

I might write a book on child rearing one day - reckon it'll be a best seller.:lol:


hopefully statie your kids will grow up and not want to belt the crap out of the old man , what you have just iterated is KRAP.

You cant drive a car without some training and a licence but you can create life and nurture a human without even so much as a look at a book

Id go and get some professional advice m8 because listening to some of the stuff in here wont help and will probably make it worse. I wouldnt risk either of my boys life training on a forum answer based on opinion and guess work.

[Goggles]

this whole thread is really an interesting read, and it shows (unfortunately) there are no simple answers to raising kids.

In my case, I use how I was bought up as a reference. My Dad had the temper, but it was my Mum who actually broke a wooden spoon on me :lol:

did that mean I now use violence if I don't get my own way, the simple answer is NO

you have to give kids perspective on things, and they have to earn things not just be given them.

xmas is 3 months away, and their birthdays are 5 to 6 months away, and they still expect toys etc for no reason.....this bugs me no end as I would rather spend money on clothes for them. God forbid if I had this attitude with my parents.

I always remember a recent trip to Sydney from Canberra (only 3 hours). all of the kids had a breakfast, and we set off. We got to Lake George, where there is not a shop in sight, and our youngest demanded that we stop for food. We politely pointed out that there are no shops in sight, so how could we stop. She then saw the sign indicating that it was 17 mins to McDonalds at Goulburn, and expected us to stop there. I said no as we always stop at McDonalds at Suttons Forest to break the trip into half. so they had to sit in the car for an hour and a half without immediate access to food or drink.

I think schools these days have a lot to answer for in terms of how kids develop their attitudes. I will never forget having a parent/teacher interview thing at one of the schools, and being told that one of our kids was not eating their lunch as there was evidence in their bag (not that unusual). anyway, the school made it sound as if it was our problem, but I'm still confused as to how it could be our problem if we are not at school.

I also remember being told by another school about their discipline policy for the kids. The school was a primary school, and upon listening to the policy, I got confused, so how the hell does a kid understand it. bottom line is that you have to keep it simple.

[Morgasshk]

I am young, and have no children of my own... however, I regularly care for my young nephews and have 5 younger brothers and sisters...

And I was a complete turd of a child as well... :P

1. What do they get fed? Colours and flavourings = baaad... lots of lollies, "yummy" foods etc come out these days without ridiculous additives, a lot of which are banned in the US and EU...

2. Never get meat products with Preservative 223. :)

3. Follow through, NEVER give in. If you do this will be the fastest learning your child ever does, they will get to know EXACTLY what point and how far they will need to go to get their way, and once you give in, in exasperation, they have won and they are the parent.

4. Find out what they REALLY do not like, ie: the dark, being alone, being hungry, missing out on a particular TV show. As the parent, you have the power to remove these priveledges... (or put them in their room without the light on etc, not as a being nasty thing, because if they are scared, they will always stop what they are doing as soon as it is threatened... may seem heartless, but must exert control or lose ot for good. :) )

I have ADD, my entire family has it... afaic, 90% of children these day have it, but i also believe that it is a condition largely reliant on an influx of food additives, flavourings and colourings... I myself am a completely normal office worker... Until I start eating things I should not, I tapp and shuffle constantly, I get an itchy nose, I fail to finish tasks, and with particular colours I get major migraines...

When i see parents, out at restaurants, at the shops etc, yelling at their children who are screaming and demanding a drink, and they give in and give their child the red creaming soda softdrink from their trolley or pram, well, sorry, but I consider that their own fault and of course their child will continue to act up, they are having their way, given colours and additives, as well as an abundance of sugar... *shrug*

Bring on the flames! lol

[VYBerlinaV8]

I have a 15 month old boy who is as busy as buggery, and the wife and I are going through the whole discipline thing right now.

It seems to me that most of the 'bad' behaviour we see (in our neices and nephews as well) is mostly the kid trying to establish where the boundaries are. By communicating the boundaries clearly (a big stern "NO" followed by a smile and a "good boy" on compliance) is working really well. I am not against smacking, but it needs to be done as part of a larger plan, not just because the parent is angry. We spend lots of time playing with our son, and he has a great time! Already we can see that making us his parents irritated or angry causes him more pain than smacking would anyway, because we spend so much energy playing with him and showing him love and affection.

Also, the diet thing is HUGE - bigger than many people understand. Gotta stay away from processed crap and sugary sweets and drinks. Their little bodies are not designed to deal with that stuff and it has far reaching effects. Our biggest problem was originally grandad, until I told him that my family has a history of diabetes and those little treats could end up killing his grandson and he would still be around to attend the funeral. Not ideal, but the problem seems to have been fixed.

Also, the people here who have talked about consistency and a united front by parents are spot on, I think.

[Morgasshk]

I was also brought up on the wooden spoon, spatula, ruler, whichever hadn't been broken already... :)

I heavily agree with corporal punishment. I HATE the media blowing it out of proportion. Parents have a right to physically discipline their children, within reason. It is the few that go too far and use their kids as a punching bag that are making child discipline so hard these days...

And as previous poster said, too many cooks situation very prevalent... different discipline routines, by different families, schools, kindergarten's etc etc etc...

[amckiwi]

I was brought up single parent was bigger than mum form about 10 years old
I was never belted but severe emotional blackmail all my younger years.
I still have issues because of this
From where I sit your younger years sound wonderfull

Each coin has two different sides and am sure somewhere in between would have worked for both of us

I have worked out what causes children and take the apropriate precautions to ensure I will not have them

Stu


Some advice from a child that was treated this way.
Think it's funny?
I left home early and thank heaven I did, because the outcome would have been a disaster if I had stayed. But for the grace of God I never layed a hand on my father and may have been in serious trouble if I had not walked away.
30 years later we are pals but he knows he f@cked up

[Smitty]

.....
It's a bit weird that people here have kids as old as I am ;)

yup:yup:
have to agree

ppl defiitely look at you strange when you celebrate
turning 40 and grandparenthood.....at the same time :confused:

which is inevitably
followed by going grey...and hair loss :lol:

best thing about grandkids?
ya can hand 'em back:bravo:


cheers

[V8R]

funny i was just talking to my mum about being a kid and upbringing the otherday (while dropping off my two for a stay at her's for a week, yay!).

She tells me she can honestly only remmeber 3 major tantrums from me when i was younger.. twice under the age of 10 and once when i was 15 and really pushing the limits.. and to tell the truth, i can remember with clarity, only one of the "good thrashings" i got. And that was when i tested the old man when i was about 15 (and 6'2, and better built.. he still showed me who's boss :( ).
I think the point is, that even tho i was a "shit of a kid", none of the punishment dished out has scarred me for life. There was belts and jug cords and "canes" and wooden spoons. But come to thiknk of it, most if it was dished out only once or twice, because when it was used, you didnt forget in a hurry.
As such, im trying to use similair techniques for my kids. I think personally that using an impliment on a child under 7 is maybe a bit harsh (a gentle whack on the back of the legs maybe, not a full on strapping tho), but always a stern warning and if pushed, let them know they've done wrong and punish them. Be consistant is probably the golden rule.

Diet IS a big one, but i definatly think ADD / ADHD is waaay over diagnosed these days.. Calling a dietary intolerance ADD is a little over the top imo.. Its an intolerance to preserves and colouring, simple as that, just like lactose and other intolerances. You know it screws you up, so dont eat it / feed your kids it.. (not aimed at you morgasshk, you obviously know what does and doesnt agree with you)
some parents just need some advice, and to take it. the thing about parenting, there is no hard and fast procedure manual :(

[Avalanche]

Ok no kids yet , but i think myself & bros were fairly well behaved. Here is a few things that worked on us. The wooden spoon always worked. When my older bro didnt clean his wardrobe up , mum threatened to throw all his toys out. Didnt clean it so when we came home from school all the toys were in the bin, & they went to the tip. certainly showed us younger bros that she means business. We were hardly ever asked what we would like for tea or what we would like at all. We were told what we were going to get & we were going to be happy about it. When i was 6 i stole some plastic army men from the newsagent with my younger bro. my older bro dobbed us in & mum made us pack our pyjamas in a bag because we were going to the police station & they might put us in jail overnight. Fisrt stop was the owner of the newsagent. We had to apologise to him, & the waterworks didnt work on him either. We were crapping ourselves. Then we went to the police station where a big overweight seargent made us do fingerprints onto some blank paper. We fair sh#t ourselves while he was deciding how long he was going to keep us there. Mean while the old man & other officers are out the front pissing themselves laughging at our expense. We never stole again. But the older bro did. We were made to sit at the dinner table until we had finished every bit of our dinner. I remember my youger bro pushing the limits till 10 oclock at night. One day i sort of accidently put salt on my rice bubbles instead of sugar. Nan made me eat it any way. I never played with the salt again.

[Miss-E]

My sister has 3 year old twins. They are a nightmare.

Besides time out, the only thing that has worked is sam. Sam is the wodden spoon with a sad face on one side of it. They have never been hit with it at all. But when they are being horrible and naughty she get it and hits the counter with it so it makes a noise and then they stop and be good because sam is sad. Its quite funny because they have never been hit, they just dont like the noise it makes. and they know time out comes next and they hate time out.

[`redoctober]

and then they stop and be good because sam is sad.
very insightful, ever thought of being a child psychologist? :lol:

all the kids are thinking about is pain, the sad face on the spoon would have zero effect. they just wouldn't want to get whacked upside the head with a wooden spoon, because they know it'd hurt like a b#tch.

any pain threat works, all you need to do is show them at least once that you mean business, and you've got them under the thumb.

[Miss-E]

They never got hit with it so i dont see how they would know it has potential to inflict pain.

But yeah they are probably thinking of the lonely 3 minutes they will get in time out and how much they hate it. So they start being good.

Twins are hard :yup: i hope i never get twins.

[`redoctober]

They never got hit with it so i dont see how they would know it has potential to inflict pain.
Instinct. And I bet you they've been told they'd be hit with it before.

[Miss-E]

She's completely against smacking, the only smacks they ever got were the ones they gave each other. And thats more wrestling/bashing style than just a smack.

I think getting a smack from sam might actually be beneficial to them at times :lol:

[pta78]

I found when we went to the shops I would talk to the kids and tell what we needed and they would have to help me shop. They had a great time and wouldn't run away.
A lot has to do with their personality. We had standard meals like meat and vegetables, no junk food and when we went out I always took snack food, drink, colouring in and small toys. They were always well behaved and people would comment on how well behaved they were. They are still great kids.

Alli

[vz300]

Mate despite what people say the good old smack on the bum is the best way...... 99.9% of us on here got a smack or ten when we were young and I no when I did I never did the same thing again......

Sure the new age type will say its wrong and your child will disown you or hate you for it but come on we have all turned out just fine well most of us.....

good luck