Harrop LS112 ADR/EPA Approval

[1000kw]

From the Harrop Website:

Harrop Engineering To Offer Full ADR/EPA Approval
Harrop Engineering is in the process of obtaining full ADR and EPA approval for our range Commodore/GTO products. Testing is being performed on our optioned VZ SS Commodore which has been fitted with a LS112 92 intercooled electronic supercharger kit, our new Harrop Performance brake upgrade kit, Harrop exhaust, and Sport diff cover upgrade. Results are expected by the end of August.

Ken, wondering if you have any updates on this? thanks.

[Ken]

Yep ...

We now have full compliance on the brakes, exhaust, & suspension components ... however we are still working on some of the cold-start emmissions for the LS112. It passes the "old" ADR criteria, however the newer ADR79/01 & 81/01 is a little more intense which means we have to buy some more equipment :bawl:. This is one of those projects that is painfully slow ... and expensive if we do not do it right.

We will be submitting it for certification later this month.
:bounce:

[MagicRat]

Ken, can you please explain in laymans terms how this will work for a customer who walks into your shop looking for an upgrade and the process this entails around registration, insurance ect.

[Ken]

Ken, can you please explain in laymans terms how this will work for a customer who walks into your shop looking for an upgrade and the process this entails around registration, insurance ect.

The ADR compliance documents are the basis by which the "Vehicle Engineering Certificate" is examined against and issued.

Fundamentally, the testing which is independantly done by an appropriately registered & certified vehicle compliance Engineer is documented. This documented 'certification' is for the equipment (brakes, or exhaust, or suspension, or supercharger, etc) and for the installation of the same as fitted to the test vehicle.

When (your) vehicle is then fitted with the same equipment, the equipment is deemed to be to an ADR compliance level. However for full legal compliance the installation would still need to be checked by an Engineer to be as per the installation on the tested vehicle. As it is only the installation that is being checked against the documentation, it is likely to take less than 1 hour and cost maybe ~$200. Full legal compliance is not possible without each installation being checked and signed off.

What does all that mean ..???
It means that by Harrop doing all the (very) expensive testing of the "products", the owner only needs to get the installation certified to be in accordance with the installation guide & calibration.

I don't know that it has any effect to registration, and insurance also seems to vary dramatically ... certainly beyond our scope to comment.

Hope this helps.
:)

PS ...
I only know of one vehicle with our LS112 that has been knocked by the Police/EPA/Roadworthy-squad ... and that was for the Nitros being active!
I would like to know if it is common ... as I have been stopped twice and had to raise the hood for an inspection, only to be told "No worries mate, just take it easy". The cops seem to just wanna have a look.?!

[1000kw]

.....however we are still working on some of the cold-start emmissions for the LS112. It passes the "old" ADR criteria, however the newer ADR79/01 & 81/01...forgive my ignorance but are the newer ADR's for cars built after a certain date? If so, do you have ARD/EPA approval for '03 ls1s?

[Ken]

....forgive my ignorance but are the newer ADR's for cars built after a certain date? If so, do you have ARD/EPA approval for '03 ls1s?

The current calibration would probably pass pre-2006 cars, but our test vehicle is a VZ and we need to test to 79/01-81/01 to be compliant for all pre-VE vehicles. The compliance is backwards-compatible so it will also cover the early models. Due to the cost of the testing proceedure, we only want to do it to a level that covers all that we can.

As it is, we will have to do VE seperately.:bawl:

[Phonsy@GM Motorsport]

That's good news for the people sitting on the fence worrying about possible EPA problems. Good work

Cheers Phonsy

[MagicRat]

Thanks Ken much appriciated, am looking at a FI upgrade within 12 months for my daily driver so just trying to get my head around all this Govt (EPA, police, registration) red tape, it just seems to be diferent govt dept's have different agendas.

[Ken]

Thanks Ken much appriciated, am looking at a FI upgrade within 12 months for my daily driver so just trying to get my head around all this Govt (EPA, police, registration) red tape, it just seems to be diferent govt dept's have different agendas.

I note that you are Victorian based, so it will be pretty straight forward for you. A couple of our current installers have already done vehicle-specific certification, and there are several already lining up their Engineers for quick response.
Good things are coming .... :bounce:

[Animal]

Ken,

Now i'm assuming you have a pretty good stable of engineers on hand that would most likely have obtained the same education as those doing the testing ( I personally expect they know a hell of a lot more :) ). How hard is it to actually comply considering most of the products you manufacture actually exceed most of the criteria anyway. Some are OEM aren't they ?

The cold start thing cracks me up. Mailny because all my cold starts are done in my home garage. Isn't this done via the tune ?

Ken

[Ken]

...snip... How hard is it to actually comply considering most of the products you manufacture actually exceed most of the criteria anyway.
The problem is usually more along the lines of the product being "too good". :) One of the fine-line issues is creating a brake package that stops the way we like, but also passes the "minimum effort" rule. If the brakes activate with too little pedal effort, they will fail the ADR31 test. There is a theroy in the test that requires at least a portion of pedal effort be realised before the vehicle reacts.



The cold start thing cracks me up. Mailny because all my cold starts are done in my home garage. Isn't this done via the tune?
The cold start cycle includes a portion of "Granny up to the shops" driving. I believe it assumes Grandma is going to start the car and get to the shops within the first 3 minutes of running, and never exceed ~1200rpm.
Yep ... all done via the calibration. Sounds easy ... but having the cats light quickly, run lean enough not to make excessive CO without being so lean that the NOx is elevated, while the THC is still bounded, and still produce great drivability and power at an affordable price ... is not so easy.

The challenges of manufacturing ...

[Animal]

I wonder just how many grandma's are going to be driving around in Supercharged holden V8's :doh:

It is great to see that the compliance rukes for all driving types.

We know you love the testing side Ken, all those black rubber lines that begin just out of the workshop driveway is a dead giveaway.

[choppo]

From the Harrop Website:

Harrop Engineering To Offer Full ADR/EPA Approval
Harrop Engineering is in the process of obtaining full ADR and EPA approval for our range Commodore/GTO products. Testing is being performed on our optioned VZ SS Commodore which has been fitted with a LS112 92 intercooled electronic supercharger kit, our new Harrop Performance brake upgrade kit, Harrop exhaust, and Sport diff cover upgrade. Results are expected by the end of August.

Ken, wondering if you have any updates on this? thanks.
Ken, wondering if you have any updates on this? thanks. One year ago...

[Ken]

Done ...
The bugger is that we now have to repeat the whole process for VE !! :vpo:

[GTO LS2]

Ken,

Forgive my ignorance, but does this now mean that we could fit the "approved" equipment + get independant engineer certificate to document that it is fiiited to approved levels...... & this then negates the issue of needing to get EPA tests and approval done??

Thanks
PS is it only for the HH112 or does it include the HH122

[Ken]

Ken,
Forgive my ignorance, but does this now mean that we could fit the "approved" equipment + get independant engineer certificate to document that it is fiiited to approved levels...... & this then negates the issue of needing to get EPA tests and approval done??
Thanks
PS is it only for the HH112 or does it include the HH122

Correct (at least in Victoria) ... assuming the same calibration is loaded. Unfortunately, the ADR was done when we only had the LS112, and as the HH112 (or HH122) are more efficent we now have to re-do the emmission testing with those models (which we are doing for VE).

[onganet]

Hi Ken,

did the HH122 get approval as yet? Just wondering because I'm having one fitted to my 2001 VX SS in January, and would like to stay legal.

[Ken]

Hi Ken,
did the HH122 get approval as yet? Just wondering because I'm having one fitted to my 2001 VX SS in January, and would like to stay legal.

The 112 has been cetified on a VE, and the HH122 is being done on a VE during the next few weeks. I expect it will "grandfather" in the VX, but I will need to seek clarification.
Simple answer ... it is possible & it will be done.
:)

[Uncle Tone]

The 112 has been cetified on a VE, and the HH122 is being done on a VE during the next few weeks. I expect it will "grandfather" in the VX, but I will need to seek clarification.
Simple answer ... it is possible & it will be done.
:)

How about the HTV 2300? Will you be complying that?

[Ken]

How about the HTV 2300? Will you be complying that?

It is unlikely we will seek emmision compliance on the HTV2300 as it is too big for a "standard" engine. The HTV2300 is specifically designed for bigger engines with heads/cam/exhaust etc ... it will explode a standard engine.
:)

[TLX]

Can only say one word on the HTV 2300 Ken........"Awesome":bow:

[Animal]

Can only say one word on the HTV 2300 Ken........"Awesome":bow:

I wasn't aware that they were released yet :confused:

[Ken]

I wasn't aware that they were released yet :confused:

A "Pre-Production" run of 4 or 5 units was completed early December (all were pre-sold).
Our next batch (50) are being machined & assembled during January ... assuming the rotors arrive from Eaton. :1peek:

Awesome .... YEP !!!

:eyes:

[Animal]

Thanks Ken,

Please tell me that Sam has one on that list :)

I am very keen to look at one so I can upgrade my HH122

[Ken]

Thanks Ken,
Please tell me that Sam has one on that list :)
I am very keen to look at one so I can upgrade my HH122

I don't know with any certainty, but I have spoken with Sam about getting one to him for some independant testing at some future stage.
I figure Sam would be one of the most experienced & un-biased as he does such a wide variety of NA & FI solutions.

:)

[Animal]

I don't know with any certainty, but I have spoken with Sam about getting one to him for some independant testing at some future stage.
I figure Sam would be one of the most experienced & un-biased as he does such a wide variety of NA & FI solutions.

:)

He did mention that he had a chat with you.

I can't wait to see it in the workshop and Sam throwing some curves at it :)

[scottblackvy]

i know this is an old thread but i recently been force to get my VY ss epa approved with the ls112 does anyone no if i can still get this done and where?