diesel VE [Archive] - Australian LS1 and Holden Forums

chevypower

31-10-2006, 07:35 PM

all the reports suggest that Holden will source their diesel from VM Motori

so heres the link to their newest 3L DOHC six-cylinder diesel

184kw/500Nm Euro5 compliant

http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=9

Speedy Gonzales

31-10-2006, 07:58 PM

500Nm at 1800rpm and TDI, Euro 5 compliance, I think GMH may finally be onto something here.

planetdavo

31-10-2006, 08:10 PM

IF they fit a diesel, the word I've heard is that the best option is a VM Motori V6 common rail T/D, already licensed for use by another GM off shoot. I'm pretty sure this was the version being talked about....
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=9

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by planetdavo : 13-03-2006 at 05:36 PM.
Note the date.
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=52044&highlight=holden+diesel

HRT Stroker

31-10-2006, 08:18 PM

I remember Street Tuna eluding to this move by GMH well over 18 months ago in one of his Magazine articles.........

I had a broken watch once.....it was right twice a day!!!

planetdavo

31-10-2006, 08:31 PM

I remember Street Tuna eluding to this move by GMH well over 18 months ago in one of his Magazine articles.........

I had a broken watch once.....it was right twice a day!!!
And here I was thinking this forum was the originator of all the newest news.....:rolleyes:
Diesel Commodore "assumptions" have been around longer than half of this forum has probably had licenses....

chevypower

31-10-2006, 09:28 PM

German Statesman

31-10-2006, 10:27 PM

not trying to be the first to know, cos i know i am not - just passing on the info on the motor - my appologies to you especially Planetdavo for a non-compliance to your high expectations. didnt realize it was a repost....

:nyuk: :wave: ;) :D :booty: :moon:

I know how that song goes....what is it about service advisors that they always go on the defensive??:rolleyes:

Cheers

JOHN

chevypower

31-10-2006, 11:04 PM

i just dont understand why when somebody post something for the hell of it, for those who didn't know... and theres always the smart remarks of someone else boasting they knew the information first... I thought only primary school kids did that...oh wait... that's not the demographic here, is it? 3 gold stars and well done!! I am interested to learn of the unreported inside info that people claim to have ahead of anyone else, because I am interested. I want to know more!

planetdavo

01-11-2006, 06:30 AM

:nyuk: :wave: ;) :D :booty: :moon:

I know how that song goes....what is it about service advisors that they always go on the defensive??:rolleyes:

Cheers

JOHN
But I'm NOT a service adviser.....:booty: :booty: :booty:

i just dont understand why when somebody post something for the hell of it, for those who didn't know... and theres always the smart remarks of someone else boasting they knew the information first... I thought only primary school kids did that...oh wait... that's not the demographic here, is it? 3 gold stars and well done!! I am interested to learn of the unreported inside info that people claim to have ahead of anyone else, because I am interested. I want to know more!

Whatever.......
Heard of "search"? You can then ask for an update!
THE MODERATORS GO ON ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

German Statesman

01-11-2006, 06:44 AM

But I'm NOT a service adviser.....:booty: :booty: :booty:

Whatever.......
Heard of "search"? You can then ask for an update!
THE MODERATORS GO ON ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

I think you should finish your homework and go to school.

planetdavo

01-11-2006, 07:00 AM

not trying to be the first to know, cos i know i am not - just passing on the info on the motor - my appologies to you especially Planetdavo for a non-compliance to your high expectations
That's ok. Apology accepted :lmao:

I think you should finish your homework and go to school.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I'm almost in tears!

Fnomna

07-03-2007, 02:23 PM

V6 engine launched at Geneva Motor Show
http://www.thecarlounge.com/news/publish/article_898.shtml
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46015
http://www.thecarlounge.com/news/uploads/diesel_2.jpg

An electronically controlled variable geometry turbocharger generates boost pressure. The engine has a torque of 550 Nm (406 lb.-ft.) beginning at 2000 rpm, while providing effective fuel economy and reduced emissions.

mac06

07-03-2007, 02:32 PM

V6 engine launched at Geneva Motor Show
http://www.thecarlounge.com/news/publish/article_898.shtml
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46015
http://www.thecarlounge.com/news/uploads/diesel_2.jpg

Now that'd be a great motor if we got it here:yahoo: As long as the price was right, it would counteract some of the fuel economy pressures large cars face.

Jac001

07-03-2007, 02:34 PM

A diesel commodore will have to provide very good fuel economy compared to the petrol V6 (eg<8L/100km) to make it a winner.

Ryzz

07-03-2007, 02:42 PM

A diesel commodore will have to provide very good fuel economy compared to the petrol V6 (eg<8L/100km) to make it a winner.

I doubt it would have to much trouble doing that when you have Golf's averaging 1000km+ to a tank of diesel.

chevypower

07-03-2007, 02:46 PM

that is going to be a great motor... Hopefully it's in the whole Commdore range, Hummer H3, Rodeo etc... there is also a 4.5L V8 version to come out, hopefully we will see stuff on that soon

HSVMAN

07-03-2007, 02:53 PM

Sorry to burst the bubble but in an interview in todays Mellors autonews Holden said they will not be putting a diesel engine in Commodore despite having a test one in there now for some reason or other...

mac06

07-03-2007, 02:55 PM

Won't go in the Rodeo as Holden have just released the 120kw commonrail diesel. Too much power in a light commercial doesn't work, the rear end is too light.

Danv8

07-03-2007, 03:03 PM

Won't go in the Rodeo as Holden have just released the 120kw commonrail diesel. Too much power in a light commercial doesn't work, the rear end is too light.

My rodeo has 157 kw and 313 nm seems to be ok with that but 98% of the time I have something in the tray. anyways so its not so skiddish around corners and what not.

Jac001

07-03-2007, 03:13 PM

I doubt it would have to much trouble doing that when you have Golf's averaging 1000km+ to a tank of diesel.

Personaly i think this size diesel is a bit on the big size.

People are focusing on diesel because of the "economy" factor, so why the hell release one with 500+Nm?

All it needs is to have around the same torque as the alloytech, and really focus on the economy side of things...

Could you imagien how mnay VE's holden could sell if the could get the economy down to say 6 L/100Km?

Just my opinion.....

EddieVE06

07-03-2007, 03:18 PM

Danv8

07-03-2007, 03:22 PM

Personaly i think this size diesel is a bit on the big size.

People are focusing on diesel because of the "economy" factor, so why the hell release one with 500+Nm?

All it needs is to have around the same torque as the alloytech, and really focus on the economy side of things...

Could you imagien how mnay VE's holden could sell if the could get the economy down to say 6 L/100Km?

Just my opinion.....

Why not have decent amount of torque and economy thats what a good turbo diesel does offers both.

Trucks I drive have around 2500nm of torque if they had the same amount of torque of an alloytec V6 I couldn't haul anything. Lots of low down torque = ease of driving without needing to floor the go pedal all the time = less fuel usage.

chevypower

07-03-2007, 03:27 PM

I read that also....no deisel for the falcon either at this stage

1. Keeps people buying the cars they already make and not put off to wait
2. They don't wan't to loose the excitement from the public before the car is released.
3. They wouldn't want the competition to know what's on their agenda.

But surely, we all know there is going to be a diesel Falcon and a diesel Commodore.

Dacious

07-03-2007, 03:43 PM

A diesel commodore variant (Calais as an Opel Omega?) would be a good drawcard for Europe where over 50% of sales are diesel, but that is due to $3.00 a litre fuel plus their biodiesel and laws where you are taxed by CO2 output so a small efficient diesel saves money in more ways than one.

But if the Direct Iinjection HFV6 comes out in '08 on VF or VE II or whatever, it will probably get economy in the 8-9l/100 category, plus produce 210kw and 400-450 nm. So a diesel for Australia might remain a 'close but no cigar' engine if it's a $2-3-4K option.

If the diesel Captiva and other diesels like the Astra are a big success, maybe. But generally the cost of the motor puts the kybosh on it - one of the motoring rags worked out you needed to own a Toyota Landcruiser for eight-ten years @15K km per annum to recoup the up-front cost of the diesel option, compared to petrol.

Holden Man

07-03-2007, 03:44 PM

1. Keeps people buying the cars they already make and not put off to wait
2. They don't wan't to loose the excitement from the public before the car is released.
3. They wouldn't want the competition to know what's on their agenda.

But surely, we all know there is going to be a diesel Falcon and a diesel Commodore.

Exactly and I reckon there will be a race between the 2 brands to see who can get theirs out first. (I'm tipping Holden)

EddieVE06

07-03-2007, 03:49 PM

A diesel commodore variant (Calais as an Opel Omega?) would be a good drawcard for Europe where over 50% of sales are diesel, but that is due to $3.00 a litre fuel plus their biodiesel and laws where you are taxed by CO2 output so a small efficient diesel saves money in more ways than one.

But if the Direct Iinjection HFV6 comes out in '08 on VF or VE II or whatever, it will probably get economy in the 8-9l/100 category, plus produce 210kw and 400-450 nm. So a diesel for Australia might remain a 'close but no cigar' engine if it's a $2-3-4K option.

A little off the topic, to change the current alloytec to direct injection is there much work involved in terms of manifolds etc or other things?

chevypower

07-03-2007, 04:14 PM

one of the motoring rags worked out you needed to own a Toyota Landcruiser for eight-ten years @15K km per annum to recoup the up-front cost of the diesel option, compared to petrol.

They always do those calculations based on a very low anual km's. And thats based on a car with a stupid surcharge on their diesel. Who in their right mind only does 15,000km per year and claims to be a motoring enthusiast?

A Direct Injection 3.6L V6 petrol should be an option. But this diesel will be so much better, and so much more suited to my liking! VW already sell more TDIs than DI petrols in Australia.

Dacious

07-03-2007, 11:42 PM

They always do those calculations based on a very low anual km's. And thats based on a car with a stupid surcharge on their diesel. Who in their right mind only does 15,000km per year and claims to be a motoring enthusiast?

A Direct Injection 3.6L V6 petrol should be an option. But this diesel will be so much better, and so much more suited to my liking! VW already sell more TDIs than DI petrols in Australia.

Lots of people do less than 15,000km a year. Wife does about 15K a year. She looked at a diesel Astra and at the asking price it just wasn't worth it. Look at LPG - only when people thought they were getting something for nothing ($1000 or $2000 off the guvmint) did they start rushing out buying them. Now petrol's dropped off to $1.10ish I bet that has slackened off too.

Yeah, if petrol goes really expensive, or the government starts adding user-pays km based charging or a green tax or something, sure, you'd change. But at present an engine option costing 10% of the price of the car, which only gets 10% better economy when the fuel costs the same takes a long time to pay off.

WhiteLion

08-03-2007, 09:06 AM

.
But generally the cost of the motor puts the kybosh on it - one of the motoring rags worked out you needed to own a Toyota Landcruiser for eight-ten years @15K km per annum to recoup the up-front cost of the diesel option, compared to petrol.

That's missing the point. If used properly (ie off-road, not off to school!), then it's the low-down torque characteristics of the engine that are important, price (although it hurts) becomes less important.

JNP304

08-03-2007, 09:20 AM

550nm is good in the larger Commodore. The current V6 I feel is not torquey enough and you have to rev her get get it going, especially with 5 people on board. Diesel Commodore would be awesome for towing ect. Not to mention the benefit of longer service intervals.
I know on a diesel ML (new shape) its 30,000km for first service.

Fnomna

08-03-2007, 09:26 AM

But generally the cost of the motor puts the kybosh on it - one of the motoring rags worked out you needed to own a Toyota Landcruiser for eight-ten years @15K km per annum to recoup the up-front cost of the diesel option, compared to petrol.

Toyota charges $12,000 more for its Landcruiser 4.2L Turbo Diesel I6 (11L/100km) than its 4.7L Petrol V8 (16L/100km). That's a big difference in price to recover.
A lot better with the Captiva's $1000 difference.

CalaisRider

08-03-2007, 11:12 PM

I will stick to my V8 petrol grunt and growl no matter what the fuel consumpton or claimed power of a diesel - but hey thats just me LOL..

chevypower

09-03-2007, 12:01 AM

oh, you're cool man!!!! double the cc's, double the consumption, nearly as much torque when you rev it twice as hard - So that's what "grunt" is?

jaydude02

13-03-2007, 05:27 PM

correct me if im wrong but i think this 3.o litre engine has been around for a while in the likes of the diesel: bmw x5, audi q7 and A6-(same size as commodore by the way) and also the vw toureg with all good reports (especially on economy) not to mention a mob in berima does a chip (which is downstream)for this motor that boosts torque from 500 to around 550nm and kw,s from 165 to 193 ye ha!!!!

chevypower

13-03-2007, 05:34 PM

BMW make their own 3L diesel, Audi/VW share their same 3L diesel in the A4, A6, Touareg and Q7, and this GM/VM 2.9 looks like it outclasses all of them in power and torque, but I think the others are still using 3rd gen CRDs, and this one is 4th Gen because it has only just been developed.
Chrysler and Jeep use a VM 2.8 diesel in the Wrangler and Cherokee and the old 2.5 diesel in the old Cherokee was a VM Motor also.
The 3L V6 CRD and 2.7L in the Grand Cherokee, 300C, Commander etc are a Mercedes diesel.

Wezza

13-03-2007, 08:04 PM

My rodeo has 157 kw and 313 nm seems to be ok with that but 98% of the time I have something in the tray. anyways so its not so skiddish around corners and what not.
The diesels have alot more torque than the petrol though... (I'm sure this is not news to anyone though!) :lol:

Fnomna

13-03-2007, 08:46 PM

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/DB16ABC326E6125ECA25729C007B075F

Holden says no to a diesel Commodore, despite the reveal of a GM V6 diesel for Caddy
For the time being, the V6 diesel – and a V8 version also understood to be in development – remains in the cupboard for the Commodore.

Cadillac this week also revealed a wagon derivative of its compact Saab 9-3 based BLS sedan. Due for European release later this year, Cadillac's first wagon in its 104-year history will, like its sedan sibling, be available with 110kW 1.9-litre turbo-diesel power, plus 129kW and 154kW versions of a 2.0-litre petrol four and a turbocharged 2.8-litre V6 offering 188kW.