Why does the VE SS axle hop so much?

[Gonadman2]

Why is this? I have noticed it when launching (only a couple of times that I've tried) and when chirping into 2nd, that the rear wheels hop badly. Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure? The Fords that I have owned/driven don't suffer from this...

[Ryzz]

Its called Axle Tramp, that interesting though as i thought they had fixed this with the revised IRS System. Do a search on "Axle Tramp" and you will find some results, dont know how much use they will be in a VE Though. :confused:

[Black AH CDX]

i would say the IRS Sytem is more "All new" than "revised" :p

[Ryzz]

i would say the IRS Sytem is more "All new" than "revised" :p:doh: my bad

[Gonadman2]

Its called Axle Tramp, that interesting though as i thought they had fixed this with the revised IRS System. Do a search on "Axle Tramp" and you will find some results, dont know how much use they will be in a VE Though. :confused:

I also thought that this problem really only occured on older vehicles, but it must have something to do with the suspension tune.

[Ryzz]

I also thought that this problem really only occured on older vehicles, but it must have something to do with the suspension tune.

stick your head in at a reputable suspension shop and ask them if they have seen/heard of any axle tramp issues on the VE. As mentioned before i was under the impression the NEW IRS had fixed this issue.

[VYSSBlack]

In the past ive noticed one of two things fixes it, either more power or less traction. Saying that the VE does seem worse than the VY

[Crusty]

Weird, I thought they would have sorted it out, even my Clubby doesn't tramp when shifting hard 1-2 and 2-3, anyone else got the same problem with a VE?

[davidred]

No axle tramp on mine.. and I give the loud pedal alot of attention.

[RED R8]

My VY has never axle tramped yet my mates do, I would hate a new VE to do this it is a shocking feeling.

[planetdavo]

Maybe certain road conditions create it more. Get the hop started, so to speak....
Low down torque on Gen4's is hugely better over Gen3's as well remember. That can't help.

[HRT 8]

Weird, I thought they would have sorted it out, even my Clubby doesn't tramp when shifting hard 1-2 and 2-3, anyone else got the same problem with a VE?
You dont have enough power.:stick:

[Gonadman2]

Well given that its the first V8 Manual Sedan that I have owned (the other, an AU XR8 Auto) its the first that I have ever encountered it. The only other car I have ever felt anything like it was a Sonata! I really gave it some stick in 1st today, and it didn't do it - so I can only conclude that it does it at the limit of adhesion. If you get lots of wheelspin it doesn't do it. I have only been dialling up around 2200rpm (a far cry from the 4000-45000rpm in my old rex) and that's where it seem's bad.

[Vulture]

Is this a manual only problem as I have never experienced this with the auto and 292rwkw? (VZ)

[BLACK expreSS-V]

Mate - absolutely no axle tramp on mine. I know what you are describing, but haven't experienced that since back in the earlier days of VX/VY...

Maybe its just your VE? Good luck in describing the symptoms and how you can recreate it to the dealer :)

[whitenite]

Why is this? I have noticed it when launching (only a couple of times that I've tried) and when chirping into 2nd, that the rear wheels hop badly. Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure? The Fords that I have owned/driven don't suffer from this...

Mebbe it's yr Traction Control kicking in (by activating ABS) when you give it some?

[Gonadman2]

^^^ Hmm I doubt that as I normally turn it off. Its a thought though, I might try launching with the ESP on?

[ExAreSix]

Easy fix, good quality adjustable shock absorbers.

Get some Konis or Bilsteins under it.

[Crusty]

You dont have enough power.:stick:

You're a funny guy :lmao: When I win lotto it'll be all good :burnout:

[SS Enforcer]

Maybe its just your VE? Good luck in describing the symptoms and how you can recreate it to the dealer :)

:lmao: :lmao:

My Ute did this but I got the cure from this forum just nail it harder :thumbsup:

Don't baby it, if you going to give it a squirt smack it hard and the rears will light up.

My auto has tramped once only that was when it let go slightly on water and bumped a fair bit when it hit the dry stuff but I wasn't accelerating hard.
If I really nail it, it doesn't get any tramp at all.

cheers

[Curtis-R]

My SS does.. I've noticed it a few times actually. I thought the same as
what SS Enforcer said above.. give it more revs.. But I have also discovered
that I have a leaking rear shock so I thought this might be something to
do with it. The last time I nailed it with a fist of revs off the line it did
not do it.

[vyssbeast]

autos do it too .. the more you give it the less it does it ... FLATSTICK of the line, either it'll smoke em or spin just enough to get ya going and no tramp

[fathershags]

My brothers SSZ Ute does it bad too, from 1st to 2nd flooring it.

[Sugaris]

Why is this? I have noticed it when launching (only a couple of times that I've tried) and when chirping into 2nd, that the rear wheels hop badly. Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure? The Fords that I have owned/driven don't suffer from this...

That's because holdens billion dollar baby still has crappy suspension... when will holden learn??

[Curtis-R]

k, Im going to try and re-ignite this thread a bit because I still have my axle tramp issue in the VE. I have read through various posts and there is not much on the current model fixes. Some have suggested replace rear shocks with better quality ones, but thats about it.. It has been lowered with Pedders Springs and has had the rear shocks replaced (with standard ones under warranty) Perhaps having the 245-35-20's is not helping? running around 37psi in the rears..

Anyway if anyone else can lend some ideas that would be :cool:

[Danv8]

That's because holdens billion dollar baby still has crappy suspension... when will holden learn??


Shit loads better than the system in VY Calais.

[SICK SS]

my ve has picked up another annoying habit from its vt-vz brothers they are still scrubing tyres out i took my ssv in to get the wheels rotated and they were scrubed out on the inside they are barely legal the cars done 15000km and two farked rear 19 wheels it goes in for a service so il be having words with he service:box:department

[Danv8]

k, Im going to try and re-ignite this thread a bit because I still have my axle tramp issue in the VE. I have read through various posts and there is not much on the current model fixes. Some have suggested replace rear shocks with better quality ones, but thats about it.. It has been lowered with Pedders Springs and has had the rear shocks replaced (with standard ones under warranty) Perhaps having the 245-35-20's is not helping? running around 37psi in the rears..

Anyway if anyone else can lend some ideas that would be :cool:

I'd say lowering your tyre pressure a tad and see what happens.

[VZSS250]

You have to be decisive in crossing the traction threshold, otherwise any car you drive will punish you with axle tramp.

In my VX SS and VZ SS I got rid of the axle tramp by getting to know each car better and knowing what amount of throttle would trigger it. You either go spend big bucks, or learn how much throttle to apply on take off.

[CalaisRider]

Why is this? I have noticed it when launching (only a couple of times that I've tried) and when chirping into 2nd, that the rear wheels hop badly. Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure? The Fords that I have owned/driven don't suffer from this...

Doesn't sound right mate - get it checked. When I crank up VE A6 to stallie rpm and let her go there is a couple of chirps and remains as straight as a die absoluely no wheel hop or axle tramp. Take esp off and its just a bit more wheel spin till the LSD kicks in but same - straight as a die!!

Pete

[HazzaHSV]

Crap. Thought this new rear end in the VE was supposed to eliminate axle tramp once and for all. Not impressed to hear this.

[Brockfan05]

MOTOR mag has said, actually their test driver Warren Luff said it, that both the VE SS and the GTS suffered from axle tramp. So far mine is all good though, but I have only done 300 km....

[HazzaHSV]

I think Luff said it tramped under brakes not power. Either way not good.

MOTOR mag has said, actually their test driver Warren Luff said it, that both the VE SS and the GTS suffered from axle tramp. So far mine is all good though, but I have only done 300 km....

[SICK SS]

no one cares about the tyres scrubing:stick:

[Gonadman2]

Mine is still doing it, but it won't do it on a wet road, period!

However we were on a gravelly dirt road last night, and when I gunned it on that it tramped the worst I have ever felt. The whole car shuddered badly, and I throttled off very quickly.

[Blown 454 AWD]

OK, Axle Tramp ! What causes it?

I don’t have a problem at present with axle tramp however, I have a spare hour on my hands (sure) so I will explain.

Axle tramp is caused by more and faster torque being applied than it takes to move the car normally and the tyres holding grip long and good enough to wind up one of the following areas before the car moves; tyres, leaf springs, coil springs and suspension rubber bushings with torque until the wind up gets to the end of it’s wind up, and then the torque finally breaks the tyre loose, this causes a small hop or bounce of the tyre slightly off the ground as all unwinds.

When traction is regained by the tyre slamming back on the ground it usually gets worse if the torque is still applied as the extra weight of the vehicle landing back down from the hop gives better traction thus winding up the “soft flexible torque absorbing area” faster making the bounce worse.

In ttthhhheee oollddd ddaayyss we all had leaf springs, they were shits for this as the leaf in stead of having a nice convex curve would turn into an “S” on its side as it wound up making a great axle breaking tramp, ask any Ford MK 1 Zephyr owner.

In today’s car we have eliminated many of the above with technology however, because of our new suspensions are putting a greater force on the road on take off to give more grip (the back loads downwards) this can assist the tramp as the car height returns to normal, and low profile tyres with today’s high pressures basically eliminate tyres from the equation. Letting tyre pressures down will probably make tramp worse allowing tyre flex as well.

Things to help stop axle tramp.

So this leaves 3 main areas that can reduce or eliminate alxe tramp.

First is suspension design, your suspension has been designed for optimum ride and grip, the trade off is it tramps, you can’t change this area, it’s what we are dealt with.

Second is better double acting high quality shock absorbers, they must be as stiff if not stiffer on the way down. Adjustable are good as you can be soft for a Sunday drive and screw the bastards hard for a day at the drags. Shock bushings should always be Nulathane. (spelling?)

Suspension bushings. Nulathane bushings in the rear will stop allot of the wind up, I saw a thread a while age saying the Harrop diff cover helped and often eliminated tramp, this is because even the diff flexes and shifts with torque, it all adds to the wind up.

Nulathanes in the rear will firm up your handling heaps, and will in the front to however, if you put them in the front you will experience quite a bit harder ride than if you just do the rear, the front seems to thump much harder than the rear with Nulathane bushings.

So now you can see what causes it, when put you car on the hoist and have a look under, you will see the huge shock absorbing bushings Holden fitted to absorb those bumps that you need to stiffen to stop the wind up. (because the new 20 inch 35 profile tyres with 45 psi in them can’t and don’t absorb any bumps).

The only trade off with stiffening everything for the elimination of axle tramp is it won’t make the ride any softer.




Mine is still doing it, but it won't do it on a wet road, period!

However we were on a gravelly dirt road last night, and when I gunned it on that it tramped the worst I have ever felt. The whole car shuddered badly, and I throttled off very quickly.



The smooth wet road didn't have enough grip for the wind up of torque to happen.

If you went beck to the gravel road, you would possibly find corrugations that a truck has made over a period of time, this will cause axle tramp heaps, otherwise gravel, because of low grip, can't wind up the suspension.

Cheers

Steve

[Curtis-R]

Nice explanation Steve and some practical ideas to helping out with this..Thanks!

[Tron2004]

My VY has never axle tramped yet my mates do, I would hate a new VE to do this it is a shocking feeling.
Same here. I have never experienced this with my VY.
Quite strange tho how some do and some don't.

[Martin_D]

Yep VE cars axle tramp badly once you put some decent power through them or muff a take off :(
Good news is our new HSD adjustable coil overs fix the problem by allowing you to trim the bump and rebound on the rear end to stop the initial wind up Steve was talking about :)

[Souljah]

The smooth wet road didn't have enough grip for the wind up of torque to happen.

My ute axel tramps something fierce in the wet. Much more than when its dry. Havent tested since i fitted new springs and shocks tho.

[Blown 454 AWD]

Yep VE cars axle tramp badly once you put some decent power through them or muff a take off :(
Good news is our new HSD adjustable coil overs fix the problem by allowing you to trim the bump and rebound on the rear end to stop the initial wind up Steve was talking about :)



Good call Tuna, I forgot about HSD adjustable coil overs, these would certainly fix the problem and stop the rebound and wind up. :yup:

Would be a quick and easy fix.

Cheers

Steve

[High Octane]

OK, Axle Tramp ! What causes it?

Shock bushings should always be Nulathane. (spelling?)

Suspension bushings. Nulathane bushings in the rear will stop allot of the wind up, I saw a thread a while age saying the Harrop diff cover helped and often eliminated tramp, this is because even the diff flexes and shifts with torque, it all adds to the wind up.


Cheers

Steve

The Yank spelling is polyurethane, and my car bounces like a bloody jumping jack in second. But only in second, the other 5 gears are fine no wheel hop at all.

[CalaisRider]

Crap. Thought this new rear end in the VE was supposed to eliminate axle tramp once and for all. Not impressed to hear this.

Nup still gotta reiterate under no circumstances does mine axle tramp or hop. I given mine shit from day one and no probs whatsoever. I dunno what the issue is. I crammed mine from the stall to the point that it grinds, then let fly on drags, bown heaps of ricies away off the line and run through the twities at 5000 - 6,500 for extensive periods and again blown the V8 cruise mob away, as they agree and posted - there is not an issue with the VE:driving:

If there is you have a problem - get it checked:thumbsup:

[BadMac]

Do you have a LSD? I read somewhere that non LSD can have tramp.

[Blown 454 AWD]

The Yank spelling is polyurethane, and my car bounces like a bloody jumping jack in second. But only in second, the other 5 gears are fine no wheel hop at all.


Yes, I have seen the polyurethane bushes (thanks for the info) however, the product I have described is pronounced as I spelt it, I just don't now if it's the right spelling.

I did a google search and the correct spelling is Nolathane, so I was close, pop "Nolathane suspension bushes" in google and see a different way Australia and New Zealand make suspension bushes, the aren't bonded, the outer is pressed in and the centre steel spacer / bush should be greased and pivots, they have almost zero flex.

Cheers

Steve