Another “Should I Fight It?” Thread

[Wonky]

I am asking this on behalf of a mate who does have an SS (older, stock one) but is not a member on here. It’s not for me – no kidding! :)

To cut a long story short the other night going home from work late he pulled up at a set of lights in the 2nd lane from the left on a highway with four lanes. The lane on his left only went a relatively short distance before merging with his lane. Another car pulled up on his left in that lane and not wanting to get into a dispute over who should give way to who at the point where the lanes merged my friend accelerated reasonably quickly (but no wheelspin) when the lights turned green. He got ahead of the car on his left and eased off when he thought he had reached the 80kmh speed limit.

The other car was behind him at the merge point of the lanes but then changed lanes and went past him on his right, apparently not absolutely flying but obviously well over the limit. When that car got a bit ahead the lights and siren on a police car which was apparently some way back started up. My friend expected them to go past and pull over the guy who had gone past him but they actually pulled them both over.

Bottom line: My friend was pinged for doing detected speed of 120 (alleged speed of 115 – don’t know how that works) in an 80 zone but is absolutely confident he was doing nowhere near that and that he has somehow been measured at the speed of the guy who went past him. He admits he probably did exceed 80kmh but not by anywhere near that much. He now faces loss of licence for 6 months over it - a very big penalty!

He asked for a readout from radar or camera as proof of his speed but was told it was not possible for him to see a reading as it was done with what he thought they said was “tachometer technology”. I suspect they were really saying “tachymeter technology”, not that I really know what that is or how it works.

My question to those who do is: Is that technology capable of measuring (from some distance away) the speeds of two different cars, one going faster than the other and accurately recording them individually with no possibility of error. Or is there a possibility that my friend has been pinged for the speed the vehicle going past him was doing, which is what he is sure must have happened?

[DeVrSe]

mate, as far as i know if the cops cant prove (give a reading of the alleged speed) they cant do s**t, well thats what i have heard anyways..but if your mate admitted to speeding, then he is probably in deep.

i was sort of in the same boat as ur friend, i got accused of doing 20 over the limit, when i wasnt doing nowhere near it..but it was the first time i got pulled over and didnt know, you can actually ask for a reading.

Hope that helps, dont know much about the tachometer thing

[hell-met]

Cop radars can detect speeds going away from them( read vehicle in front).
If the incident was not recorded on ICV tell him to fight it at court. It would help if he had the rego of other vehicle that bagged him up as well.
.
My two cents

[markone2]

Can police not fine you for speeding on the basis of ......*in there esteemed opinion*

[Pickles]

I'd defend that one for sure, you've got nothing to lose. If you don't defend it, you're gone for sure.
Cheers, Pickles.

[blackbettyhsv]

dvrse is right wonky a bloke from work was pulled up for doing 6 kms over in a 60 zone, the cop took the reading from his own speedo, the bloke knows his s#it, and asked for a visible recorded reading from a mounted speed camera, obviously that was not possible as the cop car never had one, so asked copper if his own speedo was accurate & reading correctly, which he could not be sure, well with no recorded proof, he bidded the copper good bye, and drove off. pretty gutsy we at work thought, but like I said you must know your rights.:D

[8throttlebodies]

look up the legislation for "approved speed measure devices"...
that might help ya....

But as MarkOne2 says, watch out for "prima facie".... (on face value)..

8tb

[SiLENCE]

i'm afraid that if there were no witnesses he's out of luck.
I was pinged for doing 91 in an 80 zone last year (went through an amber light and the coppers had decided they would get me for something).
To cut a long story short, they were fully aware that the amber light could be easily disproven in court, so they said that i was speeding and that i threw a cigarette butt out the window (the fines+demerit points amounted to be almost identical to running a red light).
I took it to court as i had a friend in the car with me and knowing this they were prepared to drop one of the charges, however when my friend was unable to come to court due to work commitments i got the full length of the law's mighty shaft rammed squarely between the cheeks. ($410 in fines, $60 court costs and 6 months of forced pedestrianism due to lack of points)

It will basically come down to the fact that they have a badge and as such their integrity is supposedly unquestionable, and your mate is just another name in a long list of people who have contested a speeding fine. They WILL dig up his driving record and if there are any indescrepencies they will be used against him, and if there are no witnesses to collaborate his story he'd better hope his solicitor is a good one.

[Rotty]

dvrse is right wonky a bloke from work was pulled up for doing 6 kms over in a 60 zone, the cop took the reading from his own speedo, the bloke knows his s#it, and asked for a visible recorded reading from a mounted speed camera, obviously that was not possible as the cop car never had one, so asked copper if his own speedo was accurate & reading correctly, which he could not be sure, well with no recorded proof, he bidded the copper good bye, and drove off. pretty gutsy we at work thought, but like I said you must know your rights.:D

If he just drove he's lucky he wasn't grabbed for disobeying a direction! Police don't have to show the readout, that's only a courtesy, it's recorded for the ticket, Police can issue a ticket based on speedo reading, speedos are (supposed to be) checked every 3 months by using LIDAR, if the label in the corner has expired it is done immediately to confirm speedo was accurate at time of detection...your workmate either got a rookie or is just plain lucky not to be fronting the Magistrate!



Bottom line: My friend was pinged for doing detected speed of 120 (alleged speed of 115 – don’t know how that works) in an 80 zone but is absolutely confident he was doing nowhere near that and that he has somehow been measured at the speed of the guy who went past him. He admits he probably did exceed 80kmh but not by anywhere near that much. He now faces loss of licence for 6 months over it - a very big penalty!

He asked for a readout from radar or camera as proof of his speed but was told it was not possible for him to see a reading as it was done with what he thought they said was “tachometer technology”. I suspect they were really saying “tachymeter technology”, not that I really know what that is or how it works.

My question to those who do is: Is that technology capable of measuring (from some distance away) the speeds of two different cars, one going faster than the other and accurately recording them individually with no possibility of error. Or is there a possibility that my friend has been pinged for the speed the vehicle going past him was doing, which is what he is sure must have happened?

What did they ping the other car for? You're mate has admitted speeding but to the lesser speed? I don't know what equipment they use down there but in Qld highly unlikely we would be able to "technologically" ping two cars at same time, it would take the old mark 1 eyeball detection method. In my opinion, if your mate was to get the other driver to give evidence that he was in fact going faster (passing) and yet they got fined for the same speed he would have a pretty good case...a lot of it comes down to the Magistrate..and no they don't always come down on the side of the Police, a lot of them make some very, shall we say, "unusual" decisions which have everybody concerned perplexed.

[harey]

I have received a fine for doing 101 in an 80 zone purely from the cops speedo. The cop car was at least 2-300m behind my car and i accelerated after a roundabout and then slowed down to 80. The cop said he was a trained as speed estimator and didnt need to show me a speed detection device. But I said how can you judge when we are not travelling at the same speed? And how did you get 101 not 100 or 102??

Tried fighting it with many letters from a solicitor but ended up giving up cause I couldnt afford to hire a lawyer.

I believe this one is well worth fighting in court. Supposedly magistrates are normally very critical on the police if they dont have a solid case.

[Rotty]

I have received a fine for doing 101 in an 80 zone purely from the cops speedo. The cop car was at least 2-300m behind my car and i accelerated after a roundabout and then slowed down to 80. The cop said he was a trained as speed estimator and didnt need to show me a speed detection device. But I said how can you judge when we are not travelling at the same speed? And how did you get 101 not 100 or 102??

Tried fighting it with many letters from a solicitor but ended up giving up cause I couldnt afford to hire a lawyer.

I believe this one is well worth fighting in court. Supposedly magistrates are normally very critical on the police if they dont have a solid case.

All a letter from a solicitor will do is burn up your money. A letter from you to the Superintendent of Traffic of the area you got pinged at, would have them suspend the ticket whilst they got a report from the detecting officer as to the circumstances, the Super will then assess whether to waive or enforce the ticket. If you had felt truly aggrieved by the ticket your best bet would've been to attend court and speak to the duty solicitor at the courthouse. Presuming they have those down your way...

[macca33]

Good advice, but not relevant down in Victoria. If the ticket was written anything more than two days ago - the your mate will need to write to the Traffic Camera Office, as it will be there by now.

Also, from the circumstances thus far detailed, I would imagine that an electrotector (stopwatch/distance) was used. YES, it can be used from a distance and generally when both patrol cars and 'target' vehicle are on the move, but the patrol car is able to set the device into motion whilst he is static.

Now, IF what has been detailed is correct, the copper may have detected your mate further down the road, OR, if your mate DEFINITELY wasn't speeding - in any event, he does 'think' he 'may' have exceeded 80 and let's not kid ourselves, up to 120 in LS1s is fairly easy, so who can be certain - it may be a case of mistaken identity with the other vehicle, in the darkness. Clyde or Narre/Cranbourne or Narre North Roads sound familiar to this scenario

What was the description of the other car that went with him?

And I 'spose to get to the crux of it, how CERTAIN are you that his story is 100% legitimate?

The only ways to challenge would be to write a letter to the Traffic Camera Office to request a Review of the Penalty Notice circumstances. If that failed, then it will be off to court.

All in all, if the copper was from Traffic and used that device, then him and his partner will be giving that evidence at court and your mate will be left with the "I took off and might have exceeded 80, but I didn't think I was going that quick," or, "It was the other car." Both of which, in the absence of other independent witnesses, is no good to him.

Cheers,

Macca

[8throttlebodies]

, I would imagine that an electrotector (stopwatch/distance) was used.
Macca

Macca.. I couldnt find this as a approved speed measure device... it is legislated?

thanks
8tb

[Devil]

Police can issue a ticket based on speedo reading, speedos are (supposed to be) checked every 3 months by using LIDAR, if the label in the corner has expired it is done immediately to confirm speedo was accurate at time of detection...

I'm not sure I agree with that coming from personal experience. I was pulled over for speeding and was told by the Police officer to take the weight off my right foot. They said I was very lucky that their car did not have a radar mounted to their car otherwise I would be losing a few points. I was instead given a caution. It would be guesswork at best for a cop to pull you over and issue a ticket based on their speedo reading. It's a measuring device for their car - not yours.

Cheers,
Dan

[Rotty]

I've issued several over the years like that...slot in behind the car (if they haven't seen you and slow then they deserve it for not checking mirrors), maintain speed and distance, get partner to confirm speedo (if you've got a partner that day), then hit them with lights and siren. Generally follow speed is obtained over a kilometre or more. Not the best, but is accepted.

[HRT 8]

Macca.. I couldnt find this as a approved speed measure device... it is legislated?

thanks
8tb

Yep absolutely Sam. Works as time over distance =Average speed over that distance. Same principle as the old tapes across the road.

[harey]

I've issued several over the years like that...slot in behind the car (if they haven't seen you and slow then they deserve it for not checking mirrors), maintain speed and distance, get partner to confirm speedo (if you've got a partner that day), then hit them with lights and siren. Generally follow speed is obtained over a kilometre or more. Not the best, but is accepted.

Well I got screwed then cause this guy was ages back when he put his lights on. I didnt think it could possibly be me. Oh well.

Couldnt afford to take it to court as i was a full time student then.

[Blonk1]

Tochometer technology means they matched you speed whilst following you and yes it will stand up in court... Try not drag racing off lights and see if your luck changes.... Been through this 100 times havent we???

[harey]

Tochometer technology means they matched you speed whilst following you and yes it will stand up in court... Try not drag racing off lights and see if your luck changes.... Been through this 100 times havent we???

Geeze mate so you cant give it some up to the speed limit? Whats the point of owning an ls1 or F6 in your case? :hide:

So then someone else keeps going and you get busted as well. Doesnt sound right to me. :cussing:

[IH84DS]

May I remind you all, unfortunately, police aren't dumb. Common practice of police officers is Asking Open End Questions, they want you to do all the talking. E.G. If they don't have an accurate measurment of speed, they will generally pull you up and ask you "How fast do you think you were going?" At this point most people panic but not many will say they were doing the speed limit, so they'll say, "I was doin about 70" walking straight into a Under 15km/h fine.

In the case of your mate we don't know what he admitted to or the dialogue he had with the officer. If he seriously wants to fight it he should be seeking a solicitor for advice.

The only advice is, in future, if you get pulled over listen for the Open End Questions, chances are they're looking for you to fold however if they have proof they will tell you straight up.

[BLKVYHSV]

Hey mate, sorry to say this but i was in the same situation about 9 months ago when i was coming back from a mates house at about 1am on a Saturday mornin, when i pulled up at the lights when a little MR2 pulled up and wanted to have a go. I was stupid enough to be enticed by the revving and carrying on and left him for dust. Little did i know that there was a cop car only about 100m's behind us, not exactly at the lights yet and turned on his lights and pulled the MR2 over as he was about 4 to 5 car lengths behind me. He stopped me by flashing his lights repeatedly. Now at this point i could have done the wrong thing as i was so far ahead, i could have just kept goin. I panicked and hit the breaks and pulled over. To cut a long story short they said they speed checked both of us doing 120km/h in a 70km/h zone dragging. Both cars got impounded on the spot and i had to go to court about a week later. I also found out about 30 mins into the ordeal that the guy i dragged was 1 of the head hanchos/ leaders of the Outlaw motorbike club ( like the gypsey jokers or coffin cheaters) I pleaded guilty and lost it for 6 months with a $1300 bill to pay for at the end of the whole oredeal. Ive now learnt my lesson BIG TIME and have slowed right down. Sorry for the long winded version of the story but i wanted to let you know that i have been there and know wut it feels like when you think..how the hell could they poss get that figure or how could they prove that. To make matters worse the police summins me to court to be a witness for them as the other bloke/ driver pleaded not guilty. Moral of the story= DONT SPEED AS YOU WILL GET CAUGHT!!!
Cheers
Kurt

[Elite SS]

[So then someone else keeps going and you get busted as well. Doesnt sound right to me. :cussing:[/QUOTE]


Of course not...thats why they take the slower car...

[VXIIWagman]

I also found out about 30 mins into the ordeal that the guy i dragged was 1 of the head hanchos/ leaders of the Outlaw motorbike club ( like the gypsey jokers or coffin cheaters)
:lmao: :lmao:
What did you do mate???? Run over a family of black cats or something?!

[Wonky]

So then someone else keeps going and you get busted as well. Doesnt sound right to me. :cussing:


Of course not...thats why they take the slower car...
But in this case they grabbed both cars, leading to the point in question - from the speed my mate has been booked for they have assigned to him the speed of the car which overtook him as he swears he was not doing anything like 120kmh as alleged.

How can they accurately measure the speed of two cars when one is being passed by the other, so does he have a leg to stand on given the alternative is loss of licence for 6 months?

Thanks for all the answers so far. :) I have given the link to the thread to my mate so he can read your replies. He has contacted a solicitor and is waiting on advice from him but in the meantime is very interested in all comments, especially from guys on the other side of the fence eg. Rotty, HRT 8 - thanks guys! :)

Macca33 - wasn't around here. Was somewhere down Nepean Hwy I think.

[Tron2004]

Tochometer technology means they matched you speed whilst following you and yes it will stand up in court... Try not drag racing off lights and see if your luck changes.... Been through this 100 times havent we???
Let's say the speed limit is 80kph and the lights change to green and you gun it.
Now provided you don't spin the rear wheels and you maintain full control and provided you don't go over the speed limit, can you still get booked if there happened to be a cop close by watching it all??

I suppose what I'm saying is... Is there a law that says how quick (time-wise) it takes to travel from zero to speed limit??
I've never heard of one.

[Wingnut]

Remember that each state has its own allowable evidence rules (case law) that are permissable in court, some states allow police to use the "the police car was travelling at a constant speed of *** km/h and the other vehicles were pulling away from the police car" method, there are also states that state a police officer is an expert at estimating speed after a certain period in the job. Most states also get the cars speedo checked regularly, and the accuracy on the newer cars is usually within 0.5 km/h of the actual speed. Most states dont require any print out of speed to issue a fine.

All I can add is that your friend should weigh up the chances of defending himself and the costs involved in taking it to court with the help of a solicitor. Not uncommon for the court to make both parties pay for their own costs, even if you win.

He may be better off appealing the licence disqualification, and going through the "please your honour, i need the licence to keep my job, help my family take granny to the shops/doc etc etc" routine, which is pretty straight forward in SA (just ask my missus), not sure about the other states.

Good luck

[Rotty]

Wouldn't be much of a "gun" as it takes bugger all to get to 80..fast! If you had a very loud car (like say some rice with a garbage can for an exhaust outlet and pop-offs) you may get pinged for "undue noise by manner of operation"...if nothing else it's a gauranteed way to bring yourself to the attention of the law..for a lookover, RBT, and licence check at least.

[duke5700]

Let's say the speed limit is 80kph and the lights change to green and you gun it.
Now provided you don't spin the rear wheels and you maintain full control and provided you don't go over the speed limit, can you still get booked if there happened to be a cop close by watching it all??

I suppose what I'm saying is... Is there a law that says how quick (time-wise) it takes to travel from zero to speed limit??
I've never heard of one.

There is an undue noise, excessive accelration thing at the moment, which is at the coppers descretion, someone who is a police officer may be able to confirm this, i think it may be along the lines of if your a wanker and give the copper a mouthful gesture. Ive seen it wrote on a ticket but i cant remember the exact wording of it. The only two bloke i no that have got it are kocksmokers anyway that get there thrills out of driving down the main street in a 50 zone taking it to the limiter off a set of lights for that pshhhhh sound.

[SSidewayz]

I've issued several over the years like that...slot in behind the car (if they haven't seen you and slow then they deserve it for not checking mirrors), maintain speed and distance, get partner to confirm speedo (if you've got a partner that day), then hit them with lights and siren. Generally follow speed is obtained over a kilometre or more. Not the best, but is accepted.

I get that, but in this case the cars were accelerating. If this method was used the police officer would have had to accelerate at the same rate as not one but two cars. It only works on cruise speeding. Sounds to me that they saw both cars accelerating quickly, maybe thinking it was a race and definately one car was speeding but better get them both for good measure. Id fight it if the "innocent" party is not talking crap.

[SSBarney]

To make matters worse the police summins me to court to be a witness for them as the other bloke/ driver pleaded not guilty. Moral of the story= DONT SPEED AS YOU WILL GET CAUGHT!!!
Cheers
Kurt

:lmao: so u got a $1300 fine plus the Gypsy Jokers are looking for u:lmao:

[Rotty]

I get that, but in this case the cars were accelerating. If this method was used the police officer would have had to accelerate at the same rate as not one but two cars. It only works on cruise speeding. Sounds to me that they saw both cars accelerating quickly, maybe thinking it was a race and definately one car was speeding but better get them both for good measure. Id fight it if the "innocent" party is not talking crap.

I agree, my comment here was in response to "devil" about not being able to issue follow speed tickets. Providing we're hearing the whole story I'm guessing there may have been some bluff by the coppers, but as I've said earlier I'm no traffic nazi and don't profess to be familiar with Vicpol methods and equipment.

[mustanger]

I agree, my comment here was in response to "devil" about not being able to issue follow speed tickets. Providing we're hearing the whole story I'm guessing there may have been some bluff by the coppers, but as I've said earlier I'm no traffic nazi and don't profess to be familiar with Vicpol methods and equipment.

From your experience,can you book two vehicles accelarating away from
you,at different speeds,without a speed measuring device in your vehicle?

I can understand if you were following one vehicle ,at a constant speed ,over a distance...........John

[seldo]

I've watched this thread with some interest but have declined from posting up until now because it seems that most of this type of thread usually seems to only discuss the story with a most convenient slant to the complainant. I think the only valid comment can really be taken from the guys who are in the "business" and not from well-intentioned but ill-informed urgers such as me..... Personally, I think he may be whistling Dixie and will face the music....

[Rotty]

From your experience,can you book two vehicles accelarating away from
you,at different speeds,without a speed measuring device in your vehicle?

I can understand if you were following one vehicle ,at a constant speed ,over a distance...........John

Well if our vehicle is at the speed limit and they were both pulling away we could charge them with "speeding" (notice to appear in court rather than ticket) but personally they would have to be failing the attitude test pretty badly! Racing is difficult to prove, speeding not so, but definitive speed without an electronic measuring device on two vehicles...good luck! I know a lot of the guys can estimate pretty well, but it's a lot harder when you're moving as well.

[michaels1v8]

Let's say the speed limit is 80kph and the lights change to green and you gun it.
Now provided you don't spin the rear wheels and you maintain full control and provided you don't go over the speed limit, can you still get booked if there happened to be a cop close by watching it all??

I suppose what I'm saying is... Is there a law that says how quick (time-wise) it takes to travel from zero to speed limit??
I've never heard of one.

could this be considered reckless driving?

Also my brother recently just got his licence back. He was allegedly caught doing 140 in a 70 zone drag racing another Vu SS ute like his. He says he was not going that fast more like 100 (still speeding I know) but did admit in a video interview that he was speeding...
No speed readings of the incident though, merely a traffic cops estimate.

He got a $900 (I think), court costs and lost his license for a year. It was his first ever conviction and had no previous form with the police

[Vulture]

How can they accurately measure the speed of two cars when one is being passed by the other, so does he have a leg to stand on given the alternative is loss of licence for 6 months?

Wonky, my (layman's) impression is similar to yours: having two cars involved at changing speeds really throws the whole thing into dispute. Since the stakes are high I think he should fight it. It seems that there is very genuine reason to throw the Police officer's version into serious doubt. Surely a decent lawyer could do this. I would like to hear a detailed description of exactly how they would have measured the speeds of two vehicles at the same time over a very short distance, particularly when one vehicle was overtaking another. Hopefully he didn't admit anything? It sounds like it is worth him spending a few $$ to be able to keep driving. I can just picture it all set out in diagrams etc and could imagine someone getting very confused explaining exactly how they could measure the speeds of both these vehicles in the distance and time stated.

[SS Enforcer]

A couple of nights ago on Forshore drive in Sydney myself and workmate were driving back to the terminal empty when he got pulled over from behind for allegedly speeding 102 kph he was in a b double and it is a 90 zone.

1 . Mate tells Officer he was only doing 90 cop says nope we have it on the radar mate goes to look at it 2nd cop says sorry just cleared it :hmmm:

2 . Copper says mate was all over the road and appeared lost ... fact he was changing lanes to make a right turn he has done at least 4000 times. when mate said he was just following Me cop says there wasn't "any vehicle in front of you" .. there was ... ME. The copper made a big point of this twice in front of his camera and asked mate why he suggested there was another vehicle on the road then reminded mate that this was being filmed.

Mate also explained that truck was speed limited to 100 kph and as the drive tyres were getting worn down it wouldn't do 102 .. IT won't !!

Cop wrote him up for 102 then marked ticket exceed speed by more than 15 kph and listed it as a car fine not heavy vehicle.

Work checked the satelite tracking but couldn't find mates truck .. it has been LOST to satellite for a few weeks, this happens a lot. There checking mine now for that period hope it's there.

The truck is having it's maximum speed checked we expect it to be about 97 -98 kph as it's the slowest in the yard atm.

Mate is going to fight it he hasn't been booked in a heavy vehicle for over 9 years in fact he is probably the most carefull out of all our drivers and this isn't right at all.

Copper has made 2 basic mistakes issuing the ticket we are hoping that the judge may concede that he may have made a 3rd.

We know we can't allege in court that it was a stich up which it was .

What I can't understand is why didn't the cops pull both of us up if we were speeding and why did the officer make such a big point of refuting the fact that there was another vehicle on the road it would have been impossible for them not to see me as I saw them in my mirrors !!! and why the statements regarding him being all over the road when he was just changing lanes. Was he building a bullshit case for his camera ???

This road is allways policed at night it was 1am and all our drivers know that thats 1 reason we wouldn't speed on that road.

I have a lot of time for the coppers they do a good job under trying conditions but when something like this happens it sours it. This one won't be paid and will go to court with excellent legal representation.

cheers

[Vulture]

Assuming all that you have written above is true - why do some cops act this way? I mean, I just don't understand someone wanting to do a job like that (protect the community, uphold the law etc) and then treat people with such contempt - particularly someone just doing his job. But let me add that it's obvious that the Police on this forum are not like this judging from their posts (see Rotty's above re estimating the speed on two vehicles and his bit about 'attitude test')

[HRT 8]

The attitude test is one that most cops rely on more often than not.
Theres nothing worse than pulling someone over for a simple licence check and have them scream the house down and complain about so called random intercepts.
Not to many of those clients leave without a ticket or yellow sticker.

Wonky your going to get all sorts of conflicting innuendo and reports of what can and cant be done by the coppers.
The only adivce Id be taking is that of the members who have indicated for your mate to go see a legal practitioner, and be as honest about all accounts of the incident as possible.

[seldo]

The attitude test is one that most cops rely on more often than not.
Theres nothing worse than pulling someone over for a simple licence check and have them scream the house down and complain about so called random intercepts.
Not to many of those clients leave without a ticket or yellow sticker.

Wonky your going to get all sorts of conflicting innuendo and reports of what can and cant be done by the coppers.
The only adivce Id be taking is that of the members who have indicated for your mate to go see a legal practitioner, and be as honest about all accounts of the incident as possible.
The "attitude" thing is something that never ceases to amaze me and is so often evident in many of the posts on this forum. Unfortunately, it's a vicious circle. Some of these young blokes are so anti-coppers that you can almost smell it. And that attitude must work against them every time they get pulled up, which they probably get often because of their behaviour. And when the copper gets a gob-full despite having originally only intending to tell him to smarten-up, so he ends up with a blueie. And I guess it works the same for the coppers - they must get sick of trying to do the right thing and all they get is to get abused, and then they also end up with an attitude that every young punk they pull over deserves to get pinged...I guess an "us and them" attitude.
Mind you, having said all that I got pulled over and arrogantly and unjustifiably abused by a young copper the other day after a bloke chopped my nose off by just jumping into a "safe-following-distance" hole in front of me. He reckoned I was following too close to the car that (he hadn't seen) pushed in..... Sure...I'd tail-gate a rusty old Falcon ute with tow-bar that'd hit about the middle of the bonnet of the Senator....:rolleyes: I guess I should have braked sharply instead of just rolling off the throttle

[Rotty]

Mind you, having said all that I got pulled over and arrogantly and unjustifiably abused by a young copper the other day after a bloke chopped my nose off by just jumping into a "safe-following-distance" hole in front of me. He reckoned I was following too close to the car that (he hadn't seen) pushed in..... Sure...I'd tail-gate a rusty old Falcon ute with tow-bar that'd hit about the middle of the bonnet of the Senator....:rolleyes: I guess I should have braked sharply instead of just rolling off the throttle

Unfortunately it is true (the world over) that there are coppers out there who are very full of their own self-importance...generally speaking they'll be junior in service (therfore not yet bitter, twisted, sarcastic sods) and haven't learnt to "take a chill pill" once in a while when dealing with the general public.

[SS Enforcer]

Assuming all that you have written above is true - why do some cops act this way? I mean, I just don't understand someone wanting to do a job like that (protect the community, uphold the law etc) and then treat people with such contempt - particularly someone just doing his job. But let me add that it's obvious that the Police on this forum are not like this judging from their posts (see Rotty's above re estimating the speed on two vehicles and his bit about 'attitude test')

I got the heads up about the copers attitude test a few years ago. I was in a position where we employed off duty cops to work with us usually about 3 - 6 at a time I used to organise them around their work rosters . They were a good bunch of guys especially after a cpl of days straight at work when they switched out of " cop " mode. Most of these guys worked in a particularly high stress area of police work and it was quite noticable when they settled down after a heavy period of police work.

These guys clued me up about the 'attitude test' and I must say that it works very well indeed, in fact I havn't been nailed for a ticket since , talking my way out of quite a few along the way . Wife reckons it's a 'boys club' cos she gets whacked a fair bit .

I once replied to a cops question after getting wheeled over for nailing my ls1 ute pretty hard on cleveland st surry hills on why I was going so hard " have you ever driven one of these .... drive one and try and keep you foot of it :woot: ". he let me go with a caution.

See I am not down on police at all they have given me the benefit plenty of times but the story I relayed in above post is true and did happen earlier this week. These coppers were young guys as well.

cheers

[harey]

I got the heads up about the copers attitude test a few years ago. I was in a position where we employed off duty cops to work with us usually about 3 - 6 at a time I used to organise them around their work rosters . They were a good bunch of guys especially after a cpl of days straight at work when they switched out of " cop " mode. Most of these guys worked in a particularly high stress area of police work and it was quite noticable when they settled down after a heavy period of police work.

These guys clued me up about the 'attitude test' and I must say that it works very well indeed, in fact I havn't been nailed for a ticket since , talking my way out of quite a few along the way . Wife reckons it's a 'boys club' cos she gets whacked a fair bit .

I once replied to a cops question after getting wheeled over for nailing my ls1 ute pretty hard on cleveland st surry hills on why I was going so hard " have you ever driven one of these .... drive one and try and keep you foot of it :woot: ". he let me go with a caution.

See I am not down on police at all they have given me the benefit plenty of times but the story I relayed in above post is true and did happen earlier this week. These coppers were young guys as well.

cheers

So whats the tip? Obviously be nice and friendly to them. But if they accuse you of speeding you dont want to admit to it either. So do you think the best way is to say, 'i dont think i was speeding officer'. What would you say if an officer accused you of speeding?

I have been asked what speed were you going back there, I said the speed limit, then he said whats the speed limit, so i said 60???, hahaha and he said no its 70. :lmao:

[SS Enforcer]

So whats the tip? Obviously be nice and friendly to them. But if they accuse you of speeding you dont want to admit to it either. So do you think the best way is to say, 'i dont think i was speeding officer'. What would you say if an officer accused you of speeding?

I have been asked what speed were you going back there, I said the speed limit, then he said whats the speed limit, so i said 60???, hahaha and he said no its 70. :lmao:

In normal circumstances accept what they say and agree with them, flatter them maybe , every situiation is diffferent.

I once got nailed for speeding just outside Burracoppin in WA, Was doing 129 in a 100 zone in a very fast semi loaded only with express parcel freight , the coppers took a long time to get moving and they were parked way deep in the scrub I just saw the headlights come on in my mirrors so I wheeled over and waited for them.
I had a bit of time to think of my first response and realised that they were taking a long time to get moving so I though I would remark that their Hume Hwy conterparts would have put them to shame with their zeal.

When they arrived I observed it was a his and hers deal and offered my thoughts on their lack of zest in pursuing me and questioned weather they were actually on the job or engaging in some other activities that precluded them from a quick response.

He puffed out his chest and grinned .... she blushed , he asked if the truck was speed limited, as it was almost brand new I said it had been fixed up but please don't tell the boss or he will kill me. I told him it was good for 180+ .

She asked why I was speeding I replied that I told my wife I would be home for lunch on Sunday and was on a promise ' offence was midnight fri " She said you going to Kal I said no ... Sydney " and you are holding me up":yahoo:

I got knocked off for speeding about 100 odd bucks and no points , no defect or any action taken at all, I saw that as a very good result for me.

Looking back I can see I was pretty lucky and I no longer condone that , but thats the way it was done then. Now I would want at least 4 days to drive to Perth instead of the 40 - 48 hrs we used to do it in . That leg took me about 36 hrs for the 3900 k's .

Another incident in WA saw me involved in a Road Rage incident with a female motorist near ******* ... she turned out to be a Police Officer .. when the attending officers told me that, I thought I would get arrested on the spot. after hearing my story then hers they smelled a rat and realised she was lying which she was, so they let me go and took my word over one of their own !!!!

When they told her they wern't going to persist with charges against me she yelled at them then took off dropping the clutch and showering them with dirt and dust. They put it down to PMT or or something similar

WA coppers are fine in my book :thumbsup:

cheers

[harey]

I am confused about whether to admit to it or not. Even if you talk nicely and say you werent speeding i reckon that might piss some cops off. But then if you say yes i was speeding and they didnt have any evidence you might have just put your foot in it.

[Wingnut]

I am confused about whether to admit to it or not. Even if you talk nicely and say you werent speeding i reckon that might piss some cops off. But then if you say yes i was speeding and they didnt have any evidence you might have just put your foot in it.

There is no right or wrong answer with this one. Do what you feel is appropriate. If you feel that you weren't speeding, then you may need to get your speedo checked for accuracy, as some older cars can be out by about 10%, or even greater amounts if you have changed the tire/rim sizes etc.

For me, I look for honesty when I stop someone, don't insult my intelligence and bull s**t me, I treat everyone with respect, until you make me treat you otherwise. Providing what you have done is not grossly negligent,I am more likely to give a warning, and explain the error of your ways, than to give you a fine.

I usually explain how much it is going to cost you next time, and the number of demerit points that you could loose. I am also a bit of a car nut, and have a good memory for vehicles (and the drivers of them). I give you one chance, the next time I pull you over, you better get saving for the fine you are going to have to pay.

If you treat the Police with the respect that you want (and deserve), you will usually be treated in kind.

If you treat anyone poorly, how do you expect them to react. My 2 cents worth.

[Rotty]

I'm with him..totally agree...

[Speedy Gonzales]

If you treat the Police with the respect that you want (and deserve), you will usually be treated in kind.

If you treat anyone poorly, how do you expect them to react. My 2 cents worth.

I lost respect for police since I had my vehicle illegally searched, I didnt know my rights at the time but there was nothing inside the vehicle that would suggest the vehicle required searching

Everytime I see the police hide behind a bus shelter, tree or rock outcrop with their laser or radar, I wish the law allowed the tax payer to consfiscate their car and their equipment, thats everyones tax dollars working at their best.

Hopeless, overglorified ticket inspectors. Thats my experience.

[mustanger]

I have a couple of mates that are in the job and they are just normal people like you and me. I have asked them ,when they pull someone over,if they have already made up their mind as wether to issue a ticket or not. Both their answers were the same. Each incident is different and attitude of the driver is a big player in their decision.

If you have done something wrong and you know it,you will get more favours from the police than denying it. We have all been there and done that.

If you believe that you are innocent ,you should defend yourself and have your day in court,that is why we have them............Cheers John

[Tron2004]

Wouldn't be much of a "gun" as it takes bugger all to get to 80..fast! If you had a very loud car (like say some rice with a garbage can for an exhaust outlet and pop-offs) you may get pinged for "undue noise by manner of operation"...if nothing else it's a gauranteed way to bring yourself to the attention of the law..for a lookover, RBT, and licence check at least.
I probably didn't explain it too well.

So I'll put it this way...
You're driving a very powerful car, ie. Ferrari or Lambo capable of sub 4 sec 0 - 100.
The car is not loud, the speed limit is not broken, the wheels are not spun and you have total control.
All you are doing is accelerating from a standing start up to the speed limit VERY fast!!

What law have you broken??

It just seems a tad sad that if you're not breaking any written law, that by simply doing this, you could be pulled over for a "lookover".
Sorta makes you wonder what's the point in owning or for that matter manufacturing such powerful vehicles.


:lmao: so u got a $1300 fine plus the Gypsy Jokers are looking for u:lmao:
I was thinking the same thing myself.

[michaels1v8]

Haha if I had a lambo I would know that most cars on the road would not have near as much speed as me and not feel the need to race to the speed limit.... Knowing you have ALOT of power I am not sure about everyone else but I would not feel the need to

on a track is another thing though....

I think the whole point of having expensive performance cars is to just say "hey, I am so loaded I can spend more on a car than you could ever spend on a house!"

And to show how large your penis is...:thumbsup:

[SS Enforcer]

I am confused about whether to admit to it or not. Even if you talk nicely and say you werent speeding i reckon that might piss some cops off. But then if you say yes i was speeding and they didnt have any evidence you might have just put your foot in it.

If the copper has pulled you over he believes you were speeding so by denying it would just piss them off , they work on the roads and know whats what don't insult their intelligence .

I got wheeled over at approx 2 am in my ute going pretty hard on my way to work in a 70 zone , copper explained he didn't get a speed check on me as I was on a bend and that in his opinion I was doing at least 110 , I agreed and and suggested it was actually quite a fair bit more than that but I would wear 100 kph . I got a stern lecture and warning instead.

If you get nailed fair and square you have to accept it in my opinion If you can't accept the consequences of your actions then stop playing that game and find a new one.

cheers


I probably didn't explain it too well.

So I'll put it this way...
You're driving a very powerful car, ie. Ferrari or Lambo capable of sub 4 sec 0 - 100.
The car is not loud, the speed limit is not broken, the wheels are not spun and you have total control.
All you are doing is accelerating from a standing start up to the speed limit VERY fast!!

What law have you broken??

It just seems a tad sad that if you're not breaking any written law, that by simply doing this, you could be pulled over for a "lookover".
Sorta makes you wonder what's the point in owning or for that matter manufacturing such powerful vehicles.


I was thinking the same thing myself.

I know in QLD you can be charged with "accelerating furiously" I read a story in paper a year or two back where a reverend on a Harley got nicked by a cop gunning it . He fought it in court and lost, wasn't speeding just accelerating quick is all. From memory the preacher was pretty dirty about it and said he wouldn't change his riding style.

cheers

[Vulture]

I read a story in paper a year or two back where a reverend on a Harley got nicked by a cop gunning it . He fought it in court and lost, wasn't speeding just accelerating quick is all. From memory the preacher was pretty dirty about it and said he wouldn't change his riding style.

I thought you were going to say that he requested the big fella upstairs smite the court with a bolt from the heavens in retribution.

[SS Enforcer]

I thought you were going to say that he requested the big fella upstairs smite the court with a bolt from the heavens in retribution.

I havn't checked on the magistrates health but the leather jacketed Harley God wouldn't have been too impressed methinks :hide:

cheers

[mustanger]

Haha if I had a lambo I would know that most cars on the road would not have near as much speed as me and not feel the need to race to the speed limit.... Knowing you have ALOT of power I am not sure about everyone else but I would not feel the need to

on a track is another thing though....

I think the whole point of having expensive performance cars is to just say "hey, I am so loaded I can spend more on a car than you could ever spend on a house!"

And to show how large your penis is...:thumbsup:

The guy with the Lambo would have worked just as hard as you to get it.If he can afford it ,good luck to him.:yup:

[jordan23]

If you treat the Police with the respect that you want (and deserve), you will usually be treated in kind.

If you treat anyone poorly, how do you expect them to react. My 2 cents worth.

Thats exactly how i was brought up, and thats what i will be getting into the heads of any future children of mine.

I have received 2 tickets in my driving life (about 5 years) and on both occasions i said "thank you" to the officer when he handed over the ticket. I cant see why its worth having a go at the officer on the side of the road, thats what the courts, with there "independant" judges are for.

[duke5700]

Its preety obviously young blokes are easy targets, P platers especially, Since getting my full licence, i have only be pulled over for three RBT's now, and all three where at public holiday time. The three years on P's it totalled 12 times. You feel hard not to be to picked on so to speak, When i have been booked for speeding and blantantly so, ive just came out when he asked me, the first one was 134 in a 100 zone, and when he asked i told him 130+. He gave me under 15.

Second time was 129 on the hume highway, unmarked pulled me over asked me how fast i was going and i said that not faster than 130 but quicker than 110. I gave the simple reason when he asked me why " no excuse, i was follwing behind a truck and wanted to go round him as he was throwing up rocks i should have slowed down and let him pass, again he let me go with under 15.

Attitiude plays a massive part, but i feel there certainly needs to be some "education" as far as younger blokes go with how they deal with coppers and how a copper should deal with them, Its easy to get a young blokes back up with just a few miss timed words or select phrases, and that particular sour day sticks in your mind. Even more so if you wernt doing anything wrong in the first place.

One time that particularly sticks in my mind was that i had a blue slip for my exhaust, from two weeks prior to say that everything was legal. The police officer blantantly told me he didnt care and that it was to loud and gave me a canary anyway. Having to go and get another blueslip to clear the car certainly pissed me off. Maybe he was having a bad day i dont know, maybe its just wagga coppers :whip: but to take it out on me certainly didnt seem fair. So its fair to say you have your good and bad encounters, but i would certainly encourage treat them with how you want to be treated and you will find that they will be nicer to you.

Just my 2c and sorry for the long winded reply all.

[Merlin]

I probably didn't explain it too well.

So I'll put it this way...
You're driving a very powerful car, ie. Ferrari or Lambo capable of sub 4 sec 0 - 100.
The car is not loud, the speed limit is not broken, the wheels are not spun and you have total control.
All you are doing is accelerating from a standing start up to the speed limit VERY fast!!

What law have you broken??

It just seems a tad sad that if you're not breaking any written law, that by simply doing this, you could be pulled over for a "lookover".
Sorta makes you wonder what's the point in owning or for that matter manufacturing such powerful vehicles.
.

I remember there was a law that I read on the RTA website a while ago - It was either "furious driving" or "furious acceleration".