VE six speed auto - how good is it?

[VZSS250]

Hi guys,

does every VE automatic whine in first gear? I usually drive an M6 so jumping into an A6 and hearing the whine in first was a bit weird...I always thought Fords did that.

Also, for those that drive a VE automatic six speed, what do you think of it? Has the M6 become redundant or is there still no substitute for a manual?

[clixanup]

Also, for those that drive a VE automatic six speed, what do you think of it? Has the M6 become redundant or is there still no substitute for a manual?
No matter how good an auto is, it'll never beat the feeling you get when driving a manual. I'd love to convert my car to manual, but the wife would kill me.

[SICK SS]

carnt hear any whine over the lovely noise my twin 3 inch pipes make the auto is good but i still love driving my m6 ute :yahoo:

[NRD80Y]

I'll tell you in about 3 hours after i've taken delivery of my new SS-V :driving: :yahoo: (actually i'll tell you next week once ive come back from being down the coast for weekend)

[10sec_rx7]

Good stuff NRD80Y
:)
i just went for a ride in a VE HSV senator, the 6 speed is really nice, very crisp shifts etc,

[wagnman]

Auots are booze cars. They are good for straight line work but are only good on the street because you can hold your food in your left hand and eat while you drive. Make mine a manual any day!
The only place for an auto is on a drag strip or in a luxury car.
Sporty cars should be manuals.

[VZSS250]

Six cogs are good but not when there's a torque converter transfering power to them. If I were buying an SS I'd still be going with the M6.

Despite the auto now having six cogs it still seems very clumbsy to me. It kicks and bucks and lurches, trying to follow your throttle inputs, but always lagging behind, not quite sure whats coming next.

And the quickshift doesn't make things any better. For example, I used to love briefly leaving the M6 in 3rd in a 60km/hour zone and feeling the immediate acceleration when bringing on the throttle. Felt so direct. Do the same using the manual function in the A6, and the car waits for the torque converter to take up and only then do you move forward. Its just not the same.

[Bazza76]

The A6 is good, but I would have bought the M6 if the wife could drive a manual.:hide:

[kango]

The auto is good but as has been previously said it does lag a bit even in sport mode. I have the R8 and I believe the change electronics are different to the SS or SSV,but it stiill takes its time,the manual is more sporty and in my opinion suits the car better,I do a lot of long journeys on occasion so bought the auto,next time it will be a manual.

[lethal66]

i've taking 2 new r8's for a test drive and when u floor them flat to the boards all they want to do is redline and stay there for a second before they jump into the next gear.

[CalaisRider]

No matter how good an auto is, it'll never beat the feeling you get when driving a manual. I'd love to convert my car to manual, but the wife would kill me.

Same here, the new auto sucks huge amounts of power. Nothing beats the feeling, control and response from manual spirited drive but my my wife would be unbearable if I went that way!!

[Dane VN V8]

GO the manual, I seriously hate auto now, I just want a V8 Manual now :cussing: .

Dane

[jaykay]

Drove an R8 Clubby auto, didn't like it.

The only way to go IMO is.....

http://images.cainer.net//uploads/16092006121.jpg :driving:

[wagnman]

I simply can not believe how many blokes are blaming their "WIVES" for them chosing the auto over the manual.
I recon its more a case of a holden sales push to sell more autos as they cost more!

[CalaisRider]

I simply can not believe how many blokes are blaming their "WIVES" for them chosing the auto over the manual.
I recon its more a case of a holden sales push to sell more autos as they cost more!

Nup yur dead wrong mate. I stand by my previous post!! Nothin to do with salesmen - I don't have to live with them:lmao:

[Boom]

The joys of single life. No wife to make the choice on the car. Go the manual.

[Bazza76]

I simply can not believe how many blokes are blaming their "WIVES" for them chosing the auto over the manual.
I recon its more a case of a holden sales push to sell more autos as they cost more!

LOL nup, unfortunately wife couldn't drive a manual if her life depended on it.

[Ghosn]

LOL nup, unfortunately wife couldn't drive a manual if her life depended on it.

She can't afford her own car?

[blackbettyhsv]

fella's I test drove 3 auto's, SS gts & clubby all VE's, they are heeps better than previous models. but I must say after owning a manual before,manuals are the only way to go, & 2 grand cheaper, that savings will be going into new exhaust, & if the wife wants to drive them she has to learn to change gears or miss out. go the manual:driving:

[Belzey]

I like the auto :)

When I am driving along screaming at the kids the last thing I want to think about is changing gears :lmao: so I went the auto. But to be honest I really do like manual cars but I am getting a bit lazy now days ;)

[Itchy_Feet]

although my auto is only a 4speeder I will at all costs avoid buying one again, great for towing but unless you tow 24/7 not my preferred choice in boxes. However the new boxes are supposed to be better

[shep]

I simply can not believe how many blokes are blaming their "WIVES" for them chosing the auto over the manual.
I recon its more a case of a holden sales push to sell more autos as they cost more!

Me thinks it's a good way to keep the wife out of the driving seat...:whip:

In my past life, with a 20 speed crash gearbox and 10,000k round trips. I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of gearchanges that was per trip. I liked getting into an auto when I got home. I also liked sitting in something that didn't move.

now?

Give me a manual for my barge!!:yahoo: :yahoo:

[NRD80Y]

My vedict of the A6 from my first weekend drive of SS-V, it's fantastic. It just craps over my old VY A4. When left in D, smooth gear changes. Sports mode seemed to work well at keeping the revs where they're needed. Active-select, i'm still getting used to. I find the gear knob is a bit to tall. We used to have an MR2 Spyder which is a clutchless manual, and it was very natural to hop in and use the stick with ease, but with the SS-V I'm gradually finding my groove with the Active select.

[HeathLS2]

Im not really a fan of Automatic transmissions. My personal opinion is if you buy a sports orientated vehicle it should be a manual. There is no possible way you can interact with the vehicle as much as you can if you have a manual transmission.

On the side of an automatic transmission though, I actauly prefer the old 4 speed auto vs the new 6 speed auto. My dad has an 05 VZ Clubby R8 which breaks traction when it shifts from 1st to 2nd gear on a dry road and sometimes it chirps 3rd gear aswell. The new 6 speed is very smooth but I think its too smooth. The 4 speed add's just that little bit of brutality to the car and I think thats half the reason we all enjoy having 297kw of un tammed fury under the bonnet is all about...

But thats just my opinion...

[10sec_rx7]

My vedict of the A6 from my first weekend drive of SS-V, it's fantastic. It just craps over my old VY A4. When left in D, smooth gear changes. Sports mode seemed to work well at keeping the revs where they're needed. Active-select, i'm still getting used to. I find the gear knob is a bit to tall. We used to have an MR2 Spyder which is a clutchless manual, and it was very natural to hop in and use the stick with ease, but with the SS-V I'm gradually finding my groove with the Active select.

your car looks very nice too mate!!! spotted it on sunday arvo!

[CalaisRider]

My vedict of the A6 from my first weekend drive of SS-V, it's fantastic. It just craps over my old VY A4. When left in D, smooth gear changes. Sports mode seemed to work well at keeping the revs where they're needed. Active-select, i'm still getting used to. I find the gear knob is a bit to tall. We used to have an MR2 Spyder which is a clutchless manual, and it was very natural to hop in and use the stick with ease, but with the SS-V I'm gradually finding my groove with the Active select.



Can't get my reply on. I'm supposed to be abusin someone - I read my response 3 times. Not on your nelly was there any abuse. Sorry, I do have some opinions and various feedback on the 6 speed auto and particularly manual mode - as I own one. Oh well - not to be whist I am getting blocked for supposed spam and abuse.

[NRD80Y]

On the side of an automatic transmission though, I actauly prefer the old 4 speed auto vs the new 6 speed auto. My dad has an 05 VZ Clubby R8 which breaks traction when it shifts from 1st to 2nd gear on a dry road and sometimes it chirps 3rd gear aswell.
Yeah, the VY SS A4 did that too (especially after Sonny got his hands on it :woot: ) but i havent tried it out on the SS-V yet, but im pretty sure from the feel of it at the moment that if i take the ESP off it will do exactly the same



your car looks very nice too mate!!! spotted it on sunday arvo!
I'll arrange a time to come throw it on the dyno and you can have a closer look at it :driving:

[V8BRUTE]

On the side of an automatic transmission though, I actauly prefer the old 4 speed auto vs the new 6 speed auto. My dad has an 05 VZ Clubby R8 which breaks traction when it shifts from 1st to 2nd gear on a dry road and sometimes it chirps 3rd gear aswell. The new 6 speed is very smooth but I think its too smooth. The 4 speed add's just that little bit of brutality to the car and I think thats half the reason we all enjoy having 297kw of un tammed fury under the bonnet is all about...

But thats just my opinion...
This would not be a standard 4L60E right, the four speeder to me is a pile of poo and needs a heap of money spent on it to keep it alive behind the LSx engines, at least the torque ratings for the new 6 speeder have some headroom unlike the 4 speed :rolleyes:

Will be interesting what the yanks come up with in regards to aftermarket bits for the 6 speed, with a better spread of ratios these boxes will be laying down some quick times soon :yup:

[Ghosn]

Besides the obvious, another thing I find where the manual wins extra points against the auto is with its size. Looking at pics of both i find the auto takes up a lot of room which ends of cluttering up the center console area. Manual on the other hand is short and small and frees up the room around the console so u can enjoy it more.

[SICK SS]

m6 sound alot more hornyer to

[mustanger]

Hey come on guys(and gals),the new six speed auto is the best auto that has come from GM.There would be a lot of buyers that have gone from a manual to this auto for the first time. It gives similar performance to the manual and you do not have to worry about a clutch.If you use your car every day for commuting to work,it will win a lot of new buyers. Sure ,nothing beats the control and feel of manual when you are giving it a squirt,but for 90% of the time,when in traffic,the new auto is the way to go.:dance:

[VZSS250]

At WOT using active select means requesting an upchange at 4,000 rpm and you still hit the redline. Its just too slow. Comparing it to the active select in the 300C, it is years behind. The 300C is the only other car I used active select with and I found it brilliant. Downchanges were instant and there was no banging and kicking as you get in the Holden A6 when you try to downchange.

I don't mind so much in my Caprice because you'd never consider going manual with it even if you could, but if I was buying an SS or HSV, I'd stay clear of the much more expensive A6 transmission. The torque converter still spoils the fun, and its just not that smart.

I know, I'm being harsh, but there's many out there that are trying to decide whether the extra $2k is worth it in their SS-V, and I would recommended steering clear of it if you enjoy using a manual anyway.

All this is just my opinion...I'd be happy to see what other people think.

[SS Enforcer]

I found that it takes a while to learn how to drive the A6 :shock: . I know it sound a bit weird but it's true I now have it worked out and am starting to warm to it. In active mode you need to tap the shifter pretty early in 2nd and 3rd as the ratios are short and you havn't much time before you start bouncing off the limiter.

I guess that because it feels very smooth when driving it you may be forgiven for thinking it's not quick wrong, it is very quick just the convertor masks the performance no neck snapping shifts for this one.

Yes I prefer a manual but again my wife hates manuals she can drive them but .. not very well .

cheers

[davidred]

I had a manual VT SS and a Monaro - when taking the VE SSV for a spin I tried both the auto and manual and decided to get an auto because it is a seriously nice box.

I do far too much city driving so I wanted the lazy mans way this time but was not going to get an auto if it was going to provide fun.. the new A6 definetly provides some fun.

The active select can be a bit tricky and you have to chang gears at about 4/4500 but once you know how it works, it's a fantastic way to enjoy driving.

[SICK SS]

At WOT using active select means requesting an upchange at 4,000 rpm and you still hit the redline.

.

ive never had to tap the selector that low in the rpm range to avoid bouncing off the red limiter:shock: more around the 5g mark but it has caught me out a few times

[SS Enforcer]

ive never had to tap the selector that low in the rpm range to avoid bouncing off the red limiter:shock: more around the 5g mark but it has caught me out a few times

If I left it to 5 grand in 1st gear at WOT it would hit the limiter as its' probably less than a few tenths from 5k to 6k and the box just doesn't change that quick.

cheers

[Danv8]

My mrs has told me if I do end up getting a SSV or a HSV GTS sometime next year it has to be a manual since she hates driving auto's.

Fair enough I think. :)

[mustanger]

:dance: :dance:
My mrs has told me if I do end up getting a SSV or a HSV GTS sometime next year it has to be a manual since she hates driving auto's.

Fair enough I think. :)

I would be getting a contract signed today subject to that clause:dance:

[SICK SS]

If I left it to 5 grand in 1st gear at WOT it would hit the limiter as its' probably less than a few tenths from 5k to 6k and the box just doesn't change that quick.

cheers

my reflexs might be a bit better beeing nearly half ur age:lol: only joking yes first gear 5g to 6 go goes prity quick

[FatBoy]

My mrs has told me if I do end up getting a SSV or a HSV GTS sometime next year it has to be a manual since she hates driving auto's.

Fair enough I think. :)

Does she have a sister ?? :lol:

If so i'd like some pics... :dance:

[CalaisRider]

At WOT using active select means requesting an upchange at 4,000 rpm and you still hit the redline. Its just too slow. Comparing it to the active select in the 300C, it is years behind. The 300C is the only other car I used active select with and I found it brilliant. Downchanges were instant and there was no banging and kicking as you get in the Holden A6 when you try to downchange.

I don't mind so much in my Caprice because you'd never consider going manual with it even if you could, but if I was buying an SS or HSV, I'd stay clear of the much more expensive A6 transmission. The torque converter still spoils the fun, and its just not that smart.

I know, I'm being harsh, but there's many out there that are trying to decide whether the extra $2k is worth it in their SS-V, and I would recommended steering clear of it if you enjoy using a manual anyway.

All this is just my opinion...I'd be happy to see what other people think.

To keep it short as possible - I have VE auto six speed and in the main auto it is fine for a normal drive. But in manual mode its just plain frustrating.:up2sum:

I like to drive mid to high rev range but in manual mode it locks you out of a downshift at stupidly low revs even though you know its going to be under redline when it kicks in (which it refuses to do). I am asking Power Torque to see what they can do with the shift when I get the edit. If nothing can be done IMO the manual mode is not worth a pinch of S---!!:flipoff:

Suppose my really big frustration comes from comparing my 4 litre Prado auto which has active select as part of the normal auto. Man this thing is a quick shift, smoooth and as long as its within 100 rpm of redline on downshift it will obey your every command and at awesome speed with absolutely no fuss or lurching, and your away. The prado is a 4x4 and you would expect a bit agricultural which it aint - Why can't holden come with a similar responsive manual mode auto in a performance car.:demon:

[Alex(AUS)]

Can someone comment as to whether the HSVs are the same. I have driven a FPV Typhoon with the ZF equivalent and I found it to be excellent. I will be very dissapointed if HSV is anything less.

Alex

[Savannah]

It always amazes me that some women don't learn how to drive a manual - you never know when you HAVE TO drive one.

Driving a manual is just SOOOO much more fun.

Cheers Savvy.

[macca_779]

Personally I don't like the A6 in the VE. Sure its better than the old A4 but its still not as good as the ZF 6 speed in falcons. The problem with the GM 6 speed IMO is that it still hunts a bit too much.

[Danv8]

Personally I don't like the A6 in the VE. Sure its better than the old A4 but its still not as good as the ZF 6 speed in falcons. The problem with the GM 6 speed IMO is that it still hunts a bit too much.

I find majority of auto's that hunt around too much.

A manualised automatic is the way to go.

Then so it a normal manual gearbox.

But with the new auto transmissions they usually learn the drivers driving pattern and adjust accordingly.

I rather have a manual though.


Does she have a sister ?? :lol:

If so i'd like some pics... :dance:

Yeah she has a sister.

But she is married with children.
:)

[VZSS250]

Wheels magazine has started its assualt on the Holden A6 in its December issue, continuing its previous battering on the Holden A4. In a comparo of the Senator against the Force 8 and Force 6, it was unable to secure an outright win because of question marks over the A6's performance.

Jesse Taylor, writing for Wheels, comments that the Holden A6 is "too easliy confused by part-throttle driving or comands to kick down". He goes on to say that "it will often hold a lower gear too long (in both normal and sports modes) before begrudgingly giving you a higher cog with an unsophisticated thump. Even sliding the shifter from drive to the sequential shift mode and back requires a hefty shove. The action isn't smooth and fluid like that of the ZF-equipped Falcons, instead it feels recalcitrant and cheap".

Having now done 600km of city driving with the A6, I can't possibly defend the A6 against these criticisms. Sure, it is a nice transmission when your cruising around, but get even mildly excited and the A6 begins to hunt and second guess, and many times it comes to the wrong conclusion accompanied by a thump and lurch.

The VE is an accomplishment but the A6 looks to be a weak point in the package. Holden need to go back to the drawing board or atleast stop charging buyers of the non-luxury models $2,000 for this auto.

[Curtis-R]

Some interesting reading in this post. Before buying i drove both A6 and M6.

Having read some of these posts im glad I went with the Manual. Having said that the main reason was that the last 3 cars i have had have been auto and I just needed a change. Also allowed me to put the extra couple of k into some mods.

[CalaisRider]

I had my Calais V in at Power Torque today for an edit. To date I've been bitchin to all and sundry about the A6 in manual mode. Between Brad at Mr Muffler Sumner Park and the Power Torque boys it turns out that I have a faulty gearbox or control module for it. The stupid thing now hunts between gears, had an engine warning come up and also went into limp mode. Tonight, taking it home it reved its head off for no reason whilst going slowly through a toll booth.

It was nice to see the true professional manner in which I was advised by Power Torque and Brad that I should it back to holden and get the error fixed prior to going on the Dyno and edit. Could have just did the job and taken my money - but they like to get it right and have happy customers first time. Great stuff!!

Armstrong Holden were good too - squeezed me in at 7.30am tomorrow with no notice. They are curious too as this is the first of the VE they have had with a gearbox issue.

Then its back to the gurus to get the final bit of the sorst and edit sorted.

I'll let you know what the issue with the A6 box turns out to be!!!

[EddieVE06]

Wheels magazine has started its assualt on the Holden A6 in its December issue, continuing its previous battering on the Holden A4. In a comparo of the Senator against the Force 8 and Force 6, it was unable to secure an outright win because of question marks over the A6's performance.

Jesse Taylor, writing for Wheels, comments that the Holden A6 is "too easliy confused by part-throttle driving or comands to kick down". He goes on to say that "it will often hold a lower gear too long (in both normal and sports modes) before begrudgingly giving you a higher cog with an unsophisticated thump. Even sliding the shifter from drive to the sequential shift mode and back requires a hefty shove. The action isn't smooth and fluid like that of the ZF-equipped Falcons, instead it feels recalcitrant and cheap".

Having now done 600km of city driving with the A6, I can't possibly defend the A6 against these criticisms. Sure, it is a nice transmission when your cruising around, but get even mildly excited and the A6 begins to hunt and second guess, and many times it comes to the wrong conclusion accompanied by a thump and lurch.

The VE is an accomplishment but the A6 looks to be a weak point in the package. Holden need to go back to the drawing board or atleast stop charging buyers of the non-luxury models $2,000 for this auto.

I dont want to get flamed again like a did in a previous thread but here goes once again. What on earth did all the testing Holden did show up on the A6. Remember that we the customer are forking out some big money on these cars. Whether there might be a batch of A6's that have an issue I dont know as some people on this forum have said its a great box. From the Holden video aired on t.v. most of the time they were showing either an SS or SSV Auto being tested. So whats the go then?

[Danv8]

I dont want to get flamed again like a did in a previous thread but here goes once again. What on earth did all the testing Holden did show up on the A6. Remember that we the customer are forking out some big money on these cars. Whether there might be a batch of A6's that have an issue I dont know as some people on this forum have said its a great box. From the Holden video aired on t.v. most of the time they were showing either an SS or SSV Auto being tested. So whats the go then?

Do we all have to go through this again?.

A little history lesson and this is not the knock Ford what so ever but its an example
But when Ford introduced the turbocharged engine in the XR6 models they must of done a ton of testing before releasing it to the public. As soon as it was released officially to the public there has been complaints about the engines shutting down after giving it some curry or even the engine blows a belch of smoke under the bonnet when starting and other embarresing problems. Now most of the problems were sorted out rather quicky.

No matter how much testing there is bounds to be problems with any mass produced cars. They only used certain amount of cars testing versus mass producing them on a large scale.

[EddieVE06]

Do we all have to go through this again?.

A little history lessen and this is not the know Ford what so ever.
But when Ford introduced the turbocharged engine in the XR6 models they must of done a ton of testing before releasing it to the public. As soon as it was released officially to the public there has been complaints about the engines shutting down after giving it some curry or even the engine blows a belch of smoke under the bonnet when starting and other embarresing problems.

No matter how much testing there is bounds to be problems with any mass produced cars. They only used certain amount of cars testing versus mass producing them on a large scale.


Fair point and I see where you are coming from. As I said there are people on the forum who rave about the A6 while others arn't happy due to the way it kicks, searches etc etc. What do these people do....is there a software fix to re-calibrate it or are they stuck with it?

[Danv8]

Fair point and I see where you are coming from. As I said there are people on the forum who rave about the A6 while others arn't happy due to the way it kicks, searches etc etc. What do these people do....is there a software fix to re-calibrate it or are they stuck with it?

There should be software fixes and software to adjust the gearboxes parameters out there remember the A6 is new even the ZF 6 speed auto had a bad start in its early life. With the event of major loss of oil pressure in the transmission, it can result in the transmission selecting reverse gear whilst driving and there was a recall about it.

The VE is brand new and the people in the factory is still learning about the new car as much as we are learning about the cars themselves.

[EddieVE06]

There should be software fixes and software to adjust the gearboxes parameters out there remember the A6 is new even the ZF 6 speed auto had a bad start in its early life. With the event of major loss of oil pressure in the transmission, it can result in the transmission selecting reverse gear whilst driving and there was a recall about it.

The VE is brand new and the people in the factory is still learning about the new car as much as we are learning about the cars themselves.

As long as something can be done i think all A6 drivers will be happy to have it adjusted and or fixed. As I have also said previously, the general public will read Wheels and or other car mags and will pass judgement on the A6 tested. People like us on forums like these know a litle more indepth about the cars workings or we are liekly to want to learn about the cars given the passion we have for Holden and Commodores

When a car mag conducts a tes ton a Commodore lets say, do they get their car from Holden direct or from somewhere else. If its from Holden wouldn't they make sure its all ok?

[KingClifton]

Jesse Taylor, writing for Wheels, comments that the Holden A6 is "too easliy confused by part-throttle driving or comands to kick down". He goes on to say that "it will often hold a lower gear too long (in both normal and sports modes) before begrudgingly giving you a higher cog with an unsophisticated thump. Even sliding the shifter from drive to the sequential shift mode and back requires a hefty shove. The action isn't smooth and fluid like that of the ZF-equipped Falcons, instead it feels recalcitrant and cheap".


That is exactly my experience with the A6 in the GTS and SS. It is nowhere near as good as the ZF in the Falcon range and in fact was quite a disappointment. It seemed to be all-or-nothing and didn't adapt quickly to different driving styles/throttle usage.

Users of the old 4-speed are probably quite happy whilst those who have experienced a sophisticated auto on a European car will be left sorely disappointed.

[Freaky]

That is exactly my experience with the A6 in the GTS and SS. It is nowhere near as good as the ZF in the Falcon range and in fact was quite a disappointment. It seemed to be all-or-nothing and didn't adapt quickly to different driving styles/throttle usage.

Users of the old 4-speed are probably quite happy whilst those who have experienced a sophisticated auto on a European car will be left sorely disappointed.


Just before VE launch we had that HFV6 character trying to tell us how superior this gearbox would be compared to the ZF.

Wouldnt mind swapping the F6 with someone that has an SS or E series to compare.

[jaykay]

That is exactly my experience with the A6 in the GTS and SS. It is nowhere near as good as the ZF in the Falcon range and in fact was quite a disappointment. It seemed to be all-or-nothing and didn't adapt quickly to different driving styles/throttle usage.

Users of the old 4-speed are probably quite happy whilst those who have experienced a sophisticated auto on a European car will be left sorely disappointed.
I was considering getting the A6, but after driving an R8 with the A6 it turned me off it. Sounds like there are some issues with this new gearbox they need to sort out. The M6 however is so refined now and the clutch so light. Go the M6..... :yup:

[Danv8]

I was considering getting the A6, but after driving an R8 with the A6 it turned me off it. Sounds like there are some issues with this new gearbox they need to sort out. The M6 however is so refined now and the clutch so light. Go the M6..... :yup:

Agreed no matter how good some auto's are they are not as good as a manual.
I don't mind the A4 in the Calais but I miss driving a V8 with a manual gearbox. :-)

[macca_779]

The good news is that in time Holden should be able to improve the A6 to a refinement level comparable to the ZF6. Its all software in how these modern box's do their thing. They both run very similar external sensor inputs and its just the software that decides how to use these inputs to regulate shifts. Till then though Ford has got the superior 6 speed auto by a long shot.

[EddieVE06]

The good news is that in time Holden should be able to improve the A6 to a refinement level comparable to the ZF6. Its all software in how these modern box's do their thing. They both run very similar external sensor inputs and its just the software that decides how to use these inputs to regulate shifts. Till then though Ford has got the superior 6 speed auto by a long shot.

IN TIME? Sorry but that wouldn't cut it for me. An SS drive away is around $49,000 and a HSV is much more. I'd hate to be driving one of those cars thinking oh well in time they will work out how to fix my A6.

90% of the V8 drivers who opt for an A6 want performance and instant response when they push the peddle down not a delay and something thats fishing around for something like a lucky dip.

Would be good to get some insite from Holden directly

[macca_779]

Hey I agree with you. I prefer my Manuals anyway. As it doesn't matter how smart an auto is. I know when I want to change gears the box doesn't

[EddieVE06]

Hey I agree with you. I prefer my Manuals anyway. As it doesn't matter how smart an auto is. I know when I want to change gears the box doesn't

Sorry wasn't having a go at you

[VZSS250]

Its just a shame that the A6's shortcomings are now going to handicap the VE in every magazine comparo. If Wheels was so blunt this month, you can bet the more track-focussed Motor guys are going follow suit. And this at a time where we are seeing the two magazines use autos in their comparos more and more.

In the past we've seen the magazines constantly attacking the same shortcoming issue after issue, and using it as the reason to make the Commordore lose a comparo. We all are familiar with the following paragraphs being repeated in various articles in one form or another over the years:

1) the Gen III lacking low end, needing lots of revs;
2) The M6 in the VT-VZs having moonshot gearing
3) the VT-VZs tearing apart the outside front tread when being punted through corners
4) the steering in the VT-VZ feeling "wooden".
5) the A4 being unsophisticated.

All these issues hampered the Commodore in comparos in the past. Holden responded to No.1 by constantly upping the power and finally delivering the formidable 6 litre. No.2 was corrected in VZ with a shorter 3.73 diff ratio in the V8 sedans, before the 6 litre arrived and was better able to cope with a 3.46 ratio. No 3 and 4 had to wait until VE. Holden thought No.5 would be solved by VE, but didn't pick up the A6's shortcomings during 3.4 million km of testing (!).

So Holden has a history to responding to problems identified by its customers and thats why I'm a big Holden fan. I just hope they correct the A6 issues sooner rather than later.

[EddieVE06]

Its just a shame that the A6's shortcomings are now going to handicap the VE in every magazine comparo. If Wheels was so blunt this month, you can bet the more track-focussed Motor guys are going follow suit. And this at a time where we are seeing the two magazines use autos in their comparos more and more.

In the past we've seen the magazines constantly attacking the same shortcoming issue after issue, and using it as the reason to make the Commordore lose a comparo. We all are familiar with the following paragraphs being repeated in various articles in one form or another over the years:

1) the Gen III lacking low end, needing lots of revs;
2) The M6 in the VT-VZs having moonshot gearing
3) the VT-VZs tearing apart the outside front tread when being punted through corners
4) the steering in the VT-VZ feeling "wooden".
5) the A4 being unsophisticated.

All these issues hampered the Commodore in comparos in the past. Holden responded to No.1 by constantly upping the power and finally delivering the formidable 6 litre. No.2 was corrected in VZ with a shorter 3.73 diff ratio in the V8 sedans, before the 6 litre arrived and was better able to cope with a 3.46 ratio. No 3 and 4 had to wait until VE. Holden thought No.5 would be solved by VE, but didn't pick up the A6's shortcomings during 3.4 million km of testing (!).

So Holden has a history to responding to problems identified by its customers and thats why I'm a big Holden fan. I just hope they correct the A6 issues sooner rather than later.


Agree 100%. Lets hope Holden just don't listen but read forums like these to see what their real supporters are saying

[Danv8]

Its just a shame that the A6's shortcomings are now going to handicap the VE in every magazine comparo. If Wheels was so blunt this month, you can bet the more track-focussed Motor guys are going follow suit. And this at a time where we are seeing the two magazines use autos in their comparos more and more.

In the past we've seen the magazines constantly attacking the same shortcoming issue after issue, and using it as the reason to make the Commordore lose a comparo. We all are familiar with the following paragraphs being repeated in various articles in one form or another over the years:

1) the Gen III lacking low end, needing lots of revs;
2) The M6 in the VT-VZs having moonshot gearing
3) the VT-VZs tearing apart the outside front tread when being punted through corners
4) the steering in the VT-VZ feeling "wooden".
5) the A4 being unsophisticated.

All these issues hampered the Commodore in comparos in the past. Holden responded to No.1 by constantly upping the power and finally delivering the formidable 6 litre. No.2 was corrected in VZ with a shorter 3.73 diff ratio in the V8 sedans, before the 6 litre arrived and was better able to cope with a 3.46 ratio. No 3 and 4 had to wait until VE. Holden thought No.5 would be solved by VE, but didn't pick up the A6's shortcomings during 3.4 million km of testing (!).

So Holden has a history to responding to problems identified by its customers and thats why I'm a big Holden fan. I just hope they correct the A6 issues sooner rather than later.

Consider anything that is mass produced nothing is perfect or will ever be.
Even what the magazines say they still sell like hotcakes in the family car segmant. But then again I take any magazine or journo publication(s) with a grain of salt.

[macca33]

After reading through these posts it has become apparent that the new A6 isn't all that Holden promised it would be, which is a downright shame.

It appears that the Falcon A6 is MUCH better and perhaps Holden needed to look at ZF a little more closely, as they have the runs on the board.

Hopefully, the problems ARE simply electronic and a 'fix' will become available.
Otherwise, and I hate to say it, it may be simply that we've been dumped with a TH700 (admittedly a newer version) with two extra gears, which isn't quite fair to the consumers.

Cheers,

Macca

[Cav]

I too read Wheels today and I was really surprised with their comments about the Senator.

Let's face it, they have done about three magazines full of the new VE, saying how great it is.

Were they expecting the Senator to walk away in this comparison?

To each his own. I haven't driven any of these cars. But I do like the comfort of the Holdens.

I was talking to a bloke about the ZF transmission - he said you can floor the throttle, and you can't even feel the changes - so it must be quite a 'box!

I was also speaking to the local transmission guy - he says the ZF transmission will cost about $5,000 to rebuild. When will that happen?

This will be something to consider if you buy one second hand!

Is this really progress?

[CalaisRider]

IN TIME? Sorry but that wouldn't cut it for me. An SS drive away is around $49,000 and a HSV is much more. I'd hate to be driving one of those cars thinking oh well in time they will work out how to fix my A6.

90% of the V8 drivers who opt for an A6 want performance and instant response when they push the peddle down not a delay and something thats fishing around for something like a lucky dip.

Would be good to get some insite from Holden directly



Yesterday I had all the problems in the world with my VE Calias V auto - see earlier comments. Armstrong Holden have had it all day and sounds like they have checked everything except the tread depth on the tyres, they put their head mechanic on it- I have checked on progress a feeeew times today. They even checked with Shaun at Power Torque. They Contacted Melbourne for any chip upgrades - no, it has the latest. Everything has been reset.

End result no errors came up, they deliberately tried to get it to throw an error in a lengthy test drive. They let it cool to 30 degrees and checked the gearbox oil - was bit down so topped up.

That was it - what the heck happened to my car last week and yesterday!

Slick, smooth and well behaved on the drive home - I will give it a persalised attention drive later tonight - hopefully it was just a short term glitch or more likely a bad pre-delivery service by the dealer who sold me the car :confused:

("NOT" Armstrong - they provided great service to me today)

[mustanger]

Yeah,keep us posted on any updates.......

[CalaisRider]

Yeah,keep us posted on any updates.......

Just arrived back from my personal test. Fawk its smick now. Changes in maual mode like it has never done in the past. It now downshifts on command and at reasonably high revs (could be a bit quicker in accomplishing the shift but I am sure the Power Torqe team can fine tune this).

I find a well timed blip of the throttle at the same time (similar to a shuffle to m6) really gets it synced well. The only rough/sharp change is a downshift from 2nd to first but A6 has petty high gearing in first and the new diff upgrade probably contributes to this - but hell it it really pulls when you do it.

Auto mode has no probs and full throttle changes occur at a bit over 6000rpm - can't complain about that. Even the hunting has all but disappeared. I worked it pretty hard on and off the throttle tonight trying to confuse it - no warning light came on.

Whatever the glitch was its now gone completely :bravo: Whatever Armstrong holden did I am very impressed with the result and now confident with progressing the other mods.:yup:

Pete

[mustanger]

Good news, It could have been a disaster.:yup:

[Freaky]

I too read Wheels today and I was really surprised with their comments about the Senator.

Let's face it, they have done about three magazines full of the new VE, saying how great it is.

Were they expecting the Senator to walk away in this comparison?

To each his own. I haven't driven any of these cars. But I do like the comfort of the Holdens.

I was talking to a bloke about the ZF transmission - he said you can floor the throttle, and you can't even feel the changes - so it must be quite a 'box!

I was also speaking to the local transmission guy - he says the ZF transmission will cost about $5,000 to rebuild. When will that happen?

This will be something to consider if you buy one second hand!

Is this really progress?

the zf is the thing i like best in my F6. Infact so much so i decided not go for a HSV GTO that I was considering at the time.

yes, gearchanges can be imperceptible with 4-5-6

[EddieVE06]

Just arrived back from my personal test. Fawk its smick now. Changes in maual mode like it has never done in the past. It now downshifts on command and at reasonably high revs (could be a bit quicker in accomplishing the shift but I am sure the Power Torqe team can fine tune this).

I find a well timed blip of the throttle at the same time (similar to a shuffle to m6) really gets it synced well. The only rough/sharp change is a downshift from 2nd to first but A6 has petty high gearing in first and the new diff upgrade probably contributes to this - but hell it it really pulls when you do it.

Auto mode has no probs and full throttle changes occur at a bit over 6000rpm - can't complain about that. Even the hunting has all but disappeared. I worked it pretty hard on and off the throttle tonight trying to confuse it - no warning light came on.

Whatever the glitch was its now gone completely :bravo: Whatever Armstrong holden did I am very impressed with the result and now confident with progressing the other mods.:yup:

Pete


Glad to hear its all fixed and hopefully wont happen again. Did they say anything of what it might have been, did a re-set fix it. It would be great to know especially for those that might be having the same problem.
They could just have some insight before they visit their dealer.

[VZSS250]

yes, gearchanges can be imperceptible with 4-5-6

The Holden A6 is equally imperceptible upshifting in 3-4-5-6. In normal driving the A6 is a nice smooth box. Therefore its fine for the luxo models, but for the SS twins or the HSV range the A6 takes away a lot of the fun.

The problems arise when you start to get lively with the throttle - then you begin to notice its inability to read the driver's commands, the constant kicking and bucking, and the substandard tiptronic mode.

[SS Enforcer]

Most of my driving involves cruising around town so the A6 is a treat for that changes are smooth and they usually go unnoticed. The problem they are describing I guess is when it's pushed hard through twistys or on and off the throttle repeatedly,this is when I use A/S mode as I want to be sure of what gear it will be in.

All reports suggest that the ZF in the phoon performs better I wouldn't know not having driven one myself but we have to remember that the ZF box has been around longer than the A6 so it's had time to be refined. In all honesty I can't see what the fuss is about , sure it isn't perfect but it's still pretty damn good IMHO and I am quite happy with it . You will probably find that there will be a software flash for the box in the future in the meantime it won't keep me up nights worrying about it.

cheers

[CalaisRider]

Glad to hear its all fixed and hopefully wont happen again. Did they say anything of what it might have been, did a re-set fix it. It would be great to know especially for those that might be having the same problem.
They could just have some insight before they visit their dealer.

Thanks Eddie

Not to put too fine a point on it Armstrong Holden said they don't really know. They did say that in some cases a re-set fixes things (which they did). They want it back to do some more work/checks on it (remember this is the first problem A6 VE they have had). I know by last nights effort its all fine and almost couldn't fault it - don't want it off the road for days while they pull the box and everything else out. Thanks Armstrong, good job!!

I still like the shifts like my Prado better, where you just pull it straight into the gear you want (much faster and precise) rather than tapping the lever down, down, down or up as in the VE - just a personal thing.

IMO my car had a fault from day one, probably in the control module setup, then the pre- delivery service checks by the dealer who sold it to me was sub-standard, and finally - who knows how much oil was missing out of the box (they wouldn't tell me). This all added up to a bloody nervy time for me when she went bung - might put in a "stress claim" to the original dealer.:yup:

Again IMO if I actually drove it like the luxo it is, I don't think the problems would have arisen as early as they did - but possibly could have caused some actual damage by then!!!!!!!!!

PS. Those "without blowers" who may be considering a diff change on the A6, I highly recomend the 3.45 that I have put in (standard is 2.92, HSV GTS 3.25); and if you really want to pin your head to the seat I believe it could take even higher with no probs (except first gear which would almost be an immediate change when pedal to the metal as it is 4.**:1 in this gear). My diff set was individually ordered from the US.

Pete

[Vulture]

I like to drive mid to high rev range but in manual mode it locks you out of a downshift at stupidly low revs even though you know its going to be under redline when it kicks in (which it refuses to do).

I am thinking that this might be due to 'idiot proofing' the gearbox so that compression lockup is virtually impossible to achieve. Stupid, I agree. My suggestion to Holden for a comrpromise would be to allow for a different program when you turn the electronic aids off. In this case the manual mode should allow downshifts to the redline if the driver so deems it required. By turning off the electronic aids you should be aware that you are on your own.

Hopefully turners will be able sort out some shift points but I fear that this will be some months off at least.

[CalaisRider]

I am thinking that this might be due to 'idiot proofing' the gearbox so that compression lockup is virtually impossible to achieve. Stupid, I agree. My suggestion to Holden for a comrpromise would be to allow for a different program when you turn the electronic aids off. In this case the manual mode should allow downshifts to the redline if the driver so deems it required. By turning off the electronic aids you should be aware that you are on your own.

Hopefully turners will be able sort out some shift points but I fear that this will be some months off at least.

Fawk sounds like a great idea - best of both worlds. Just a further thought on this, lets face it ESP is good is a lot of situations, maybe an extra button/switch that just unlocks the box/engine but leaves ESP on would be ultimate. Hope someone takes your suggestion up!!:bounce:

[SS Enforcer]

Hey CalaisRider what revs does your car sit at now with the 3.45 diff in it at 100kph please and did Holden have a problem with the new ratios ?

Cheers



Hopefully turners will be able sort out some shift points but I fear that this will be some months off at least.

I think that VCM suite allready can do the shift points on the A6 .

cheers

[chops]

You bet it can.
Drive one with a tuned auto, you may change your mind about them.
Admittedly I never drove one with the auto stock, but the tuned A6 SS I drove impressed me greatly with the shift program Tuna did.

[CalaisRider]

You bet it can.
Drive one with a tuned auto, you may change your mind about them.
Admittedly I never drove one with the auto stock, but the tuned A6 SS I drove impressed me greatly with the shift program Tuna did.

I hope your right, whilst its fine at the moment, the standard A6 is not as good as I expected !!!

[payaya]

The 6 speed auto in the Holden is good, but when compared to the ZF its not.

Is it a bad transmission? no. Is it a good one? Yes.

There is no point compairng the GM unit to the ZF unit, as the ZF is the best there is.

Did anyone expect the GM unit to be better? Is it that far off?? I guess its another issue of Euro out does USA.

[davidred]

Well I took the Beerwah-Kilcoy road up to the Stanley River road and through to Maleny earlier today.

It's winding, it's twisting, it's hard cornering and a good bit of fun.

The gearbox didn't miss a trick using active select, kept it in 3rd most of the time and it just ate up the road.. so perhaps a few faulty units are running around out there as I've never had a problem with the gearbox and it continues to deliver.

[payaya]

Well I took the Beerwah-Kilcoy road up to the Stanley River road and through to Maleny earlier today.

It's winding, it's twisting, it's hard cornering and a good bit of fun.

The gearbox didn't miss a trick using active select, kept it in 3rd most of the time and it just ate up the road.. so perhaps a few faulty units are running around out there as I've never had a problem with the gearbox and it continues to deliver.

Again a case the GM unit is good. But if you drove the ZF down the same track you would notice the difference.

[SS Enforcer]

Well The gearbox didn't miss a trick using active select, kept it in 3rd most of the time and it just ate up the road.. so perhaps a few faulty units are running around out there as I've never had a problem with the gearbox and it continues to deliver.


I feel the same way took mine up the wisemans ferry rd and on to gosford same sort of road. The car handled beautifully and the A6 in select mode was a joy to drive. In normal day to day driving it is a very good box, the fact that it isn't quite as good at the moment as the best auto on the market shouldn't see it labelled as a dud.

The real trick for Holden is probably getting the box to work well at WOT with big HP cars and also work well running around town in traffic and maintain smoothness and driveability. Thats were the fine tuning kicks in I suppose.

cheers

[Dane VN V8]

The 6 speed auto in the Holden is good, but when compared to the ZF its not.

Is it a bad transmission? no. Is it a good one? Yes.

There is no point compairng the GM unit to the ZF unit, as the ZF is the best there is.

Did anyone expect the GM unit to be better? Is it that far off?? I guess its another issue of Euro out does USA.


Again a case the GM unit is good. But if you drove the ZF down the same track you would notice the difference.

Alright mate we get the point the ZF is a better gearbox do you have to keep repeating it over and over.

Dane

[VZSS250]

I have no doubt the manual mode performs well through the twisties. Thats because your dealing with 2-3-4 shifts which dont challenge the transmission. Even at WOT, the slow reaction time of the manual mode can still operate effectively to make the 2-3 change before the revs bounce off the redline. The problem with the manual mode is in making 1-2 shifts at WOT, where it is VERY slow, and also in making 3-2 or 2-1 downshifts where it all becomes very untidy.

[SS Enforcer]

I have no doubt the manual mode performs well through the twisties. Thats because your dealing with 2-3-4 shifts which dont challenge the transmission. Even at WOT, the slow reaction time of the manual mode can still operate effectively to make the 2-3 change before the revs bounce off the redline. The problem with the manual mode is in making 1-2 shifts at WOT, where it is VERY slow, and also in making 3-2 or 2-1 downshifts where it all becomes very untidy.

This is probably a concern if you are racing around a track and looking for a killer time but most people with street cars need a car that operates well in normal driving conditions. I think the slow 1-2 change has been programed to minimise high torque spikes to the box .
These cars are designed to tow boats , caravans or trailers with a load of people and luggage in them all over the country or as a daily commuter to operate in stop start traffic. As well as that they also perform very well as a performance car .

The more I drive mine [6500k's] the better I get at at adapting to the cars limitations and quirks and also learn to utilise its capabilities and appreciate them for what they are.

cheers

[Pickles]

The 6 speed auto in the Holden is good, but when compared to the ZF its not.

Is it a bad transmission? no. Is it a good one? Yes.

There is no point compairng the GM unit to the ZF unit, as the ZF is the best there is.

Did anyone expect the GM unit to be better? Is it that far off?? I guess its another issue of Euro out does USA.
I haven't driven either of them, so can't comment personally. However, there was a lot of prior release "hype" about how good the GM 6 speed was going to be -- as there was about the ZF box.
From what I've read & heard, the ZF is very very good, but the GM box hasn't quite lived up to expectations,appears to be a bit slow at times, can't make up its mind, & simply isn't as good as the ZF item,--- at the moment. However, I'd reckon there'd be a fair chance that GM would be taking note of this, so there may be some upgrades in the pipeline.
Cheers, Pickles.

[EfiJy]

i dont know how holden could have released the auto without noting some of its obvious shortfalls. maybe holden had nosay in it? the auto is no good compared to the ford box.

[CalaisRider]

This is probably a concern if you are racing around a track and looking for a killer time but most people with street cars need a car that operates well in normal driving conditions. I think the slow 1-2 change has been programed to minimise high torque spikes to the box .
These cars are designed to tow boats , caravans or trailers with a load of people and luggage in them all over the country or as a daily commuter to operate in stop start traffic. As well as that they also perform very well as a performance car .

The more I drive mine [6500k's] the better I get at at adapting to the cars limitations and quirks and also learn to utilise its capabilities and appreciate them for what they are.

cheers


Your probably right SS Enforcer and well said.

Maybe in some respect I am blaming an object when it's actually me who has the capacity and need to adapt in order to get the best performance out of it - same with any car. Aside from the one limp mode problem which was thought to be linked to the gearbox (nothing but a bit of oil shortage), it is a damn fine piece of work. :bravo:

We all have different expectations and preferences of the things we own and it would be impossible to please everyone. I suppose I just get a tad frustrated that I cannot obtain its best performance at this stage, but time and experience will fix it, I'm sure. Come to think of it, thats probably why we have Custom Tuners as well:yup:

One thing I passionately believe is that the total VE V8 package is an absolutely magnificent car and awesome piece of gear.

[SS Enforcer]

One thing I passionately believe is that the total VE V8 package is an absolutely magnificent car and awesome piece of gear.

Obviously we concur mate :bravo:

Hey CalaisRider mine sits on 1500 rpm @100kph what rpm is yours at now with the 3.46 diff gears @ 100kph please.

cheers

[Roddy]

It's great that GM lets us beta-test its new drivelines.:rofl:

In reality, enthusiasts such as those here pick these things up, the average punter would not have a clue. Thus, 100% perfect tranny programming goes through to the keeper until the imperative (or more likely, time) to alter it becomes apparent.

[SS Enforcer]

Obviously we concur mate :bravo:

Hey CalaisRider mine sits on 1500 rpm @100kph what rpm is yours at now with the 3.46 diff gears @ 100kph please.

cheers

It's ok I ran the calcs through a convertor and found that the RPM would be 1750 with the 3.45 to equal 1500 with the 2.92 diff.

http://www.chrismans.com/Calculators.html


So how does it drive then .... :toetap: :toetap: :toetap:

cheers

[Rexx]

Do we all have to go through this again?.

A little history lesson and this is not the knock Ford what so ever but its an example
But when Ford introduced the turbocharged engine in the XR6 models they must of done a ton of testing before releasing it to the public. As soon as it was released officially to the public there has been complaints about the engines shutting down after giving it some curry or even the engine blows a belch of smoke under the bonnet when starting and other embarresing problems. Now most of the problems were sorted out rather quicky.

No matter how much testing there is bounds to be problems with any mass produced cars. They only used certain amount of cars testing versus mass producing them on a large scale.



How long has Ford had the turbo six here?

as for my I have no idea about the 6 speed auto but hell every car guy knows when you get a auto or manual one of the first mods on them is shift kit or better clutch.

As for me I'm an auto type of guy. I can downshift my auto to hold up to 5000 rpm ( old school auto) with no probs and shift up without missing a beat.
If I was circuit racing manual is the way to go no doubt but dragging auto is king. I figure most of that do play when not on the track is mostly light to light auto is good for that kind of stuff.
Had an old vette that would chirp shifting through all three gears (turbo 400).
But it really comes down to choice you know, sorta like what came first chicken or the egg....
Not everyone will agree

AUTOS RULE!!!!:lol:

[CalaisRider]

Obviously we concur mate :bravo:

Hey CalaisRider mine sits on 1500 rpm @100kph what rpm is yours at now with the 3.46 diff gears @ 100kph please.

cheers

Surprisingly not much difference to what your saying SS Enforcer - about 1800 from memory, which is just a bit closer to the better torque band. As I said somewhere, fuel consumption is great at 11.1 highway and it just cruises burbles along fine - no excess engine noise. Am interested to see what the edit brings!!:yup:


It's ok I ran the calcs through a convertor and found that the RPM would be 1750 with the 3.45 to equal 1500 with the 2.92 diff.

http://www.chrismans.com/Calculators.html


So how does it drive then .... :toetap: :toetap: :toetap:

cheers

Sorry guys I hadn't gone through all the posts before replying.

In a nutshell "superb" - a conservative reply is - the engine respose is great and the car feels a fair bit quicker at all revs but it just loves sitting on manual shift a around 3000 and booting it - to me it seems to fly. For the old hands with huge blowers and big mods, its probably slow but shit it feels fast and good to me.

Nothing seems to have changed on a sedate highway drive - its all good; and round town she just rises to the ocasion at all times. Doesn't seem to affect the auto shift - I would never go back

I just gotta remember to turn the ESP and traction controll off when having a big go off the line - it just seems to bog it down regardless. The car has got an LSD anyway. I'll learn one day:lol:

[BlownVR]

It's ok I ran the calcs through a convertor...

An easier way:

3.45/2.92*1500=1772

[djsmi1]

I borrowed a 6Lt 6speed Auto WM statesman from work, and it flys, I love it, but theres no substitue for the feeling of driving a manual.

[Pulse 8]

Havent any problems in our place. Ive got the M6 in my GTO LE and the other half runs a tricked up A4 in her CV8... Happy Daze Got all bases covered.
Happy Cruizin.

[CalaisRider]

Havent any problems in our place. Ive got the M6 in my GTO LE and the other half runs a tricked up A4 in her CV8... Happy Daze Got all bases covered.
Happy Cruizin.

Guys as a finale - The Power Torque boys did a significant tweak to my A6 - holy shit it made a difference in auto and manual mode. It just sets my phase one package off well. IMHO I would strongly recommmend it.


Pete

[SS Enforcer]

I have noticed over the last few days That my gearbox seems to be shifting better than before. The shifts seem a bit sharper than before.

Below is some specs for it.


Cheers :driving:

SPECIFICATIONS: HYDRA-MATIC 6L80


2007 Hydra-Matic 6L80 (MYC)

Type:
Six-speed RWD / AWD, electronically controlled automatic overdrive transmission with torque converter clutch. Clutch-to-clutch architecture, with integral Electro / Hydraulic Controls Module

Maximum engine power:
413 bhp (308 kW)

Maximum engine torque:
430 lb-ft (583 Nm)

Maximum gearbox torque:
664 lb-ft (900 Nm)

Gear ratios:
MYC

First:
4.03

Second:
2.36

Third:
1.53

Fourth:
1.15

Fifth:
0.85

Sixth:
0.67

Reverse:
-3.06

Maximum shift speed
6500 rpm

Maximum validated weights:(target )
GVW: 8600 lb (3901 kg), GCVW: 14000 lb (6350 kg)

7-position quadrant:
P, R, N, D, X, X, X (X = available calibratable range position )

Case description:
Three-piece ( Bell, main, extension)

Case material:
die cast aluminum

Shift pattern:
(2) Three-way on / off solenoids

Shift quality:
Five variable bleed solenoids

Torque converter clutch:
Variable Bleed Solenoid ECCC

Converter size:
300 mm ( reference )

Fluid type:
DEXRON® VI

Fluid capacity: w/ 258 & 300mm converter
258 mm: 9.7 L (8.22 kg), 300 mm: 11.9 L (10.1 kg)

Transmission weight: w/ 258 & 300mm converter
258 mm: Wet: 94-96 kg (207-211 lb)

300 mm: Wet: 102-104 kg (225-229 lb)

Pressure taps available:
line pressure

Assembly site:
GMPT Ypsilanti, Mich.

Applications:
Chevrolet Corvette

Cadillac XLR

Cadillac XLR-V

Cadillac STS-V

GMC Yukon Denali

GMC Yukon Denali XL

Cadillac Escalade

Cadillac Escalade ESV

Cadillac Escalade EXT


Available Control Features:
Multiple shift patterns (selectable or adaptive)

Driver Shift Control (Tap Up / Tap Down)

Enhanced Performance Algorithm Shifting (PAS II)

Next-generation tow / haul mode

Engine torque management on all shifts

Altitude and temperature compensation

Adaptive shift time

Neutral idle

Reverse lockout

Automatic grade braking

Additional Features:
GM Oil Life System

OBDII / EOBD

Integral Electro/Hydraulic Controls Module – TEHCM

Control Interface Protocol - GMLAN

[CalaisRider]

After driving my A6 it a fair bit more now. I like playing around in manual mode most of the time but find it a "tad" awkward as you have to move the lever to the left and away from the driver to engage. Then you continue to have that little extra distance each time you shift - it doesn't fall directly to hand. IMHO it would have been prefect if manual mode engagement was a pull across toward the driver instead of the way it is.

In straight auto you just it in D and leve it there so reach is not a big issue....

[pemier]

well I thought it was an excellent trans until.....IT BLEW UP lol, hopefully an isolated incidence

[CalaisRider]

well I thought it was an excellent trans until.....IT BLEW UP lol, hopefully an isolated incidence

Holy Crap Batman - tell us more!!! How, why when - I'm really interested. Fawk how can you LOL after that.......

[E.O.D.]

Real men shift their own gears~:driving:

[payaya]

maybe a few years ago!!

Look at all the performance cars these day, they run sequential boxes.

[CalaisRider]

Real men shift their own gears~:driving:

Sorry buddy, I think you have the wrong thread. By the sound of it you have no clue on the A6 or what an auto has to offer off the line nor how crisp they shift these days, hence IMO I'm not sure what value your post is to this thread. Take your burning clutch plate, slow launch and testosterone elsewhere:lmao:

[payaya]

Sorry buddy, I think you have the wrong thread. By the sound of it you have no clue on the A6 or what an auto has to offer off the line nor how crisp they shift these days, hence IMO I'm not sure what value your post is to this thread. Take your burning clutch plate, slow launch and testosterone elsewhere:lmao:

I guess people still see the manual as the mans box!

[CalaisRider]

And just refresh my memory on who "people" are.

I ain't askin for a stouche yet, but mate, your own your own beliefs, values and statements are yours and yours alone. Don't ever think that you actually speak for the masses, if so, you could quickly have a rude awakening.

Its akin to the common catchry its - they, them or "we" believe (single person statement). I won't go on. I acknowledge that you feel that you need a manual gearbox in your car to feel like your a man... Its ok.

[pemier]

Holy Crap Batman - tell us more!!! How, why when - I'm really interested. Fawk how can you LOL after that.......

what else can you do! yeah I got pissed off but at the end of the day there giving me a brand new trans and they said it was the first they have heard of failing

have a read of this thread
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=66411

[payaya]

And just refresh my memory on who "people" are.

I ain't askin for a stouche yet, but mate, your own your own beliefs, values and statements are yours and yours alone. Don't ever think that you actually speak for the masses, if so, you could quickly have a rude awakening.

Its akin to the common catchry its - they, them or "we" believe (single person statement). I won't go on. I acknowledge that you feel that you need a manual gearbox in your car to feel like your a man... Its ok.


Well if your considering almost all supercars run a sequential box then yes this box is the better box.

But yes a lot of people still have the mentality the manual is the mans box. Faster? No.

But reading my first post, yes it seems people could of gotten confused! Man doesnt equal fast! Sorry!

[VZSS250]

After driving my A6 it a fair bit more now. I like playing around in manual mode most of the time but find it a "tad" awkward as you have to move the lever to the left and away from the driver to engage. Then you continue to have that little extra distance each time you shift - it doesn't fall directly to hand. IMHO it would have been prefect if manual mode engagement was a pull across toward the driver instead of the way it is.

In straight auto you just it in D and leve it there so reach is not a big issue....

I also think they should have had the leaver moving in towards the driver. I suppose they did it that way because other manufacturers do it. But a Commodore is a big car and that little bit of extra distance that the leaver moves away from the driver makes the manual mode just that little bit uninviting. Yeh its not much, but sometimes you really want to meet the person who'e responsible for these decisions and say to them "why'd you do that mate, what were you thinking?".

[Rica SS V]

Just a bit of rambling

But isn't the A6 made in the states? therefore you would pull towards the driver in the case of a LHD

[payaya]

well obiviously if they did not chance the mechanism the gear lever would full the right way when in LHD vehicles.

Never been in a VE cant comment.

[AussieTone]

I had no choice but to get into an auto due to my dodgy back. Whilst it has taken a bit of time to become used to it I believe it is a nice bit of kit. I have had no problems to date (just over 3000 km) and the only complaint I have is that I do about 54 km each way to work of which about 45 km is free flowing 90 km/h or toll way / highway at 100 km/h.

On the trip home it is the freeway/toll way first before I get into the 60/70 km/h built up areas. What I find is the box is used to the easy/economical changes but when I hit the built up areas I get a few ‘rough’ changes before it learns where it is and what it should be doing between changes. It is as if it is trying to catch up with itself for the best / smoothest gear and change.

This disappears after a dozen or so changes then it goes back into smooth changes with no ‘lurching’ type feeling. Mind you, this could be me still getting the hang of it. Either way I am still very happy with the Auto and it is light years ahead of the box it replaced.

Verdict; there is nothing like a manual mated to a big cc V8 but for everyday built up area driving the 6 speed auto is not just a compromise, it is a good box in its own right. I base this on the fact that I still have a smile on my face after every drive.

[CalaisRider]

Well if your considering almost all supercars run a sequential box then yes this box is the better box.

But yes a lot of people still have the mentality the manual is the mans box. Faster? No.

But reading my first post, yes it seems people could of gotten confused! Man doesnt equal fast! Sorry!

Yeh agreed - its all cool - all that matters is you enjoy your ride.

Mate of mine drives and old beat up VW Beetle, and to him thats the best thing in the world and loves it. He says he likes the challenge without the speed, she's pretty slow on the uptake and wanders a bit - but good on him, to each their own!!:cheers:

[chomper]

Auots are booze cars. They are good for straight line work but are only good on the street because you can hold your food in your left hand and eat while you drive. Make mine a manual any day!
The only place for an auto is on a drag strip or in a luxury car.
Sporty cars should be manuals.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

My car is a manual (XR6T), but have had the opportunity to drive a 6 speed auto Falcon and VE 6 speeder. The VE 6 is much better than the 4 it replaced which used to live in the VX cars, but still does stupid shifts once in a while. The shifts aren't as firm and quick as I would like, but that's just me.

I will be flamed to ashes for this, but the ZF in the Ford's is brilliant. I almost bought the XR6 with it instead of the manual but common sense returned. The harder it is driven , the better it gets. Shifts get quicker, firmer. When left in D, after some many miles of hard driving, it delays shifting itself more and more; on many occasions, I found myself blipping the throttle to get it to shift up earlier.

(Time to put up fire retardant suit)

[macca_779]

Your absolutely correct mate. The ZF shits all over the A6. And like you I considered purchasing an XR6 with a ZF but I couldn't let my V8 roots go. And as good as the auto is. I still know better than the car does for what gear I want and when I want it.

[BadMac]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

My car is a manual (XR6T), but have had the opportunity to drive a 6 speed auto Falcon and VE 6 speeder. The VE 6 is much better than the 4 it replaced which used to live in the VX cars, but still does stupid shifts once in a while. The shifts aren't as firm and quick as I would like, but that's just me.

I will be flamed to ashes for this, but the ZF in the Ford's is brilliant. I almost bought the XR6 with it instead of the manual but common sense returned. The harder it is driven , the better it gets. Shifts get quicker, firmer. When left in D, after some many miles of hard driving, it delays shifting itself more and more; on many occasions, I found myself blipping the throttle to get it to shift up earlier.

(Time to put up fire retardant suit)

You won't find much arguement on this forum. Most people agree the A6 is light years ahead of the 4 speed, but the ZF is still better. However the GM unit will improve as will the ZF. I expect that by VE2 they will be close.

Also remember for all but a few thousand enthusists, the boxes are identical to the general public.

[CalaisRider]

I also think they should have had the leaver moving in towards the driver. I suppose they did it that way because other manufacturers do it. But a Commodore is a big car and that little bit of extra distance that the leaver moves away from the driver makes the manual mode just that little bit uninviting. Yeh its not much, but sometimes you really want to meet the person who'e responsible for these decisions and say to them "why'd you do that mate, what were you thinking?".

Would it have something to do with it being a US box and base design being created for left hand drive but Holden?GM being too lasy to convert it appropriately to our Australian right hand drive system??? Just askin the question - as it would fall really well for a US left hand drive shifter:hmmm:

Pete

[JohnS]

Interesting fact 10,371

AMG Mercs are only made with auto boxes...

Interesting fact 10,372

M series BMWs are not avaliable with auto boxes...

Interesting fact 10,373

Nuns dont wear...

[Space Pope]

I went with a A6 this time for the hell of it on my SS V. It seems fairly rsponsive for a slusher. The sports mode is fun on the kickdown, especially on the freeway at speed ...has a go at 4th and takes off.

Shifting manually seems more smooth with your foot on the gas, shifting down off throttle seems a bit slow and transitions aren't quite as smooth.

I find the shift from 2nd to 1st can be less than subtle sometimes when pulling up to a stop Also, at least on mine, driving off in
1st, it sounds a tad whiny. Dunno if anyone else has noticed this? Perhaps I'm too used to an M6.

[Big_Valven]

There's a definite whine, but not intrusive...

The a6 is light years ahead of the dinosaur a4s but still no substitute for the raw driving appeal of a manual.

I still stand by the fact that the a4s are "comedy gearboxes" in that they are comedically slow and unresponsive no matter how you treat them.

[Danv8]

There's a definite whine, but not intrusive...

The a6 is light years ahead of the dinosaur a4s but still no substitute for the raw driving appeal of a manual.

I still stand by the fact that the a4s are "comedy gearboxes" in that they are comedically slow and unresponsive no matter how you treat them.

I dunno after my LS1 tune on my Calais I found the gearbox rather quick and responsive. Much better than the Citroen C5's automatic transmission thats for sure.

[jrckelley]

For the record, I often drive a 3v 5.4ltr (cai+tune) with the zf with 6A sure it is a good box (compared to the A4 it replaced) but if you like "driving" in manual mode you will be disapointed. It is still slow on the upshifts and downshifts (you have to change way early in 1st to keep off the limiter just like you say with the holdens).
In short, If you want a manual get a manual cause any auto (even BMW auto manuals) just don't cut it.
If you want an auto get an Auto knowing it isn't a manual.
as for any one that says they have to get a auto because their wife cant drive a manual - WTF - there a re so so so so many things wrong with that statement, so many. It is safer just to get your wife a seperate car - need more convincing ????? watch this!!!!!!!

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RxXATurrcA)

[KingClifton]

Any further news on the September software update for the 6-speed auto? My R8 went to the dealer in October and they'd heard nothing of either a running change or an update.

[BadMac]

Any further news on the September software update for the 6-speed auto? My R8 went to the dealer in October and they'd heard nothing of either a running change or an update.

My R8 went in in December for servicing and they updated the gearbox software (claimed it would solve my slipping, IT DIDN"T). Only difference I can find is that it no longer bounces off the rev limiter in WOT 1st or 2nd (maybe a lowered change point or a faster change). No blips on downshifts or anything.

[BlownVR]

Sounds like it is not as simple as just updating the software :(
Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=1096017&postcount=220)

[JustCruising]

Hi guys,
I've got the a6 in my ve ss (Feb 07 build) and I get the most enjoyment out of it when driving in manual shift mode- however, I wouldn't mind the software blipping the throttle on downshifts as sometimes I seem a bit unco to manage it myself! Would anyone be able to tell me if this is a simple upgrade through Holden now? or can it be programmed in at tuning shops?
Thanks

[warpspeed]

I will be flamed to ashes for this, but the ZF in the Ford's is brilliant. I almost bought the XR6 with it instead of the manual but common sense returned. The harder it is driven , the better it gets. Shifts get quicker, firmer. When left in D, after some many miles of hard driving, it delays shifting itself more and more; on many occasions, I found myself blipping the throttle to get it to shift up earlier.

If you want it to be more sporty more of the time, try moving the gear lever across into Manual mode, this is, in effect a Performance mode. You'll see 'Perf' come up next to the D near the speedo. The trick is, don't change the gear manually as that puts it into manual mode, just move it across then don't touch it. Point of note, in this mode the gearbox will not select 6th gear, it will top out in 5th. If you're in 6th, it'll immediately backshift.

Basically, AFAIK, there's a points system, zero to 200, where zero is economy and 200 is sports. Moving the gearshift across into 'Performance' instantly gives you 100 points, enabling certain 'performance' features.


FWIW: Last week, I took a WM Caprice V8 for a drive, my old man is looking at getting one and he wanted my opinion on the differences. He's currently got a BF Fairlane I6.

After driving it, I have to say, it's a pretty nice car, it looks excellent, it's well balanced and I love the power and the sound of the V8 (just not the petrol consumption). However, the biggest let downs as compared to the Fairlane in my opinion are the gearbox and the cruise control interface, there are other points for and against too, but because this thread is about the 6 speed auto, I'll only talk about the differences between the GM and ZF boxes:

The ZF box absolutely creams the GM box, like night and day. The ZF is just so much smoother, faster and intelligent. Don't get me wrong the GM box is okay, and is certainly way better than a 4 speed. But it pales compared to the ZF.

Holden really really really need to do some work to catch up to Ford on this one, and it's clear when you look at some of the articles written by some of the motoring magazines and other reviewers, they all say the same thing. The GM 6 speed is a great step up from the 4 speed, but it lacks the sophistication and intelligence of the Ford ZF box. The Caprice is an awesome car, but the gearbox and cruise control really dented my first impressions of it.

Some of the things in particular, relating to the gearbox which left me slightly annoyed at the Caprice was:

- It's laggy as hell. The ZF is much quicker at working out how you want to drive. I did the obligatory drive in a 110km zone, slowed down to 60 and stabbed the right foot. Compared to the ZF it felt like it took forever to work out what I wanted to do.

The ZF kicks back really smoothly and very quickly, and if you want it to be even quicker, e.g. want to get past a truck real fast, no thought required, fling your hand across and push the gear lever sideways to turn on Performance mode, which leads me to my next two points:

- In the Ford if you move the stalk across to manual mode but don't touch it, that turns performance mode on, very easy, you don't have to hunt for a separate button.

- The gear stalk is harder to move, it required real effort to move it to manual mode in particular. In the Ford, you can do it easily with a couple of fingers.

- It's not as 'smart' as the Ford box, it's quite hard to catch the ZF box 'off guard', and even if you do, in most cases it'll recover smoothly. There are lots of little smarts in the Ford box that either weren't as obvious or not present in the GM box. One, even the local Holden dealer admitted to me, he said sometimes it hunts gears when he drives up the road to work. You don't get that in the Ford, it knows you're driving up hill and will hold the lower gear, even if you back off the accelerator.

- The plasticy cover they have over the groove where the stalk sticks out, it's cheap and ugly. Ford got this one right too, a nice piece of soft leather covers it up in the Ford.

- It isn't possible to get the 6 speed gearbox with the V6 engine. Ford offer the ZF 6 speed as default or an option across most of their range in all engines: I6, I6T, and V8. I think the only one you can't get it with is the E-Gas.

For reference:

Cars with the GM Box: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L80_transmission
Cars with the ZF Box: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission

[ballbreaker]

Hi guys just put in my 2 bob,The ZF is a great box.drive in auto mode & its smooth early gear changes,Shift it to sports mode & it a real weapon allways at the right rev range & let me tell you gear changes can be felt.about time ford got it right.Im from a v8 gackground & buying my first F6 i only had one thing on my mind, its got to be manual.Well there was no choice .First of the F6 s only manual,it was a dog stock & with 330 rwkw,run at the creek with 330 best of 13 FLAT big deal you say yes but it run 118 mph the new f6 i got run 13.140 @ 108 mph DEAD STOCK.So what im trying to say is if FORD didnt have ZF in the F6, holden would have been miles ahead.Sorry for going on an on.

[GASDRX]

For the record, I often drive a 3v 5.4ltr (cai+tune) with the zf with 6A sure it is a good box (compared to the A4 it replaced) but if you like "driving" in manual mode you will be disapointed. It is still slow on the upshifts and downshifts (you have to change way early in 1st to keep off the limiter just like you say with the holdens).
In short, If you want a manual get a manual cause any auto (even BMW auto manuals) just don't cut it.
If you want an auto get an Auto knowing it isn't a manual.
as for any one that says they have to get a auto because their wife cant drive a manual - WTF - there a re so so so so many things wrong with that statement, so many. It is safer just to get your wife a seperate car - need more convincing ????? watch this!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RxXATurrcA


Agree totally. My mate has a bf xr6 turbo with an edit (boost) and the upshifts from 1st to 2nd in either manual or auto mode are sloooow to say the least. When in manual mode it is just useless, change gear 1500 to 2000rpm before red line and the thing will still hit the limiter. Fastest way he found was to just leave it in D sport mode.
That said my other mate with a edited vess has the same problem when in manual mode also.
I think the autos in both are fine for a standard car but not so good in a modified one but in time tuners will make both autos better just like they have done with the old 4speeds.

Just think how lucky you guys are compared to the guys in their vs v8s:bawl:

[Gorty]

If you want it to be more sporty more of the time, try moving the gear lever across into Manual mode, this is, in effect a Performance mode. You'll see 'Perf' come up next to the D near the speedo. The trick is, don't change the gear manually as that puts it into manual mode, just move it across then don't touch it. Point of note, in this mode the gearbox will not select 6th gear, it will top out in 5th. If you're in 6th, it'll immediately backshift.

Basically, AFAIK, there's a points system, zero to 200, where zero is economy and 200 is sports. Moving the gearshift across into 'Performance' instantly gives you 100 points, enabling certain 'performance' features.


I'm gonna try this on the way home tonight! My A6 seems hesitant in the first and second gears if I just rest my foot lightly on the pedal but with a little more pedal it definitely responds more favourably.
I'm still getting to know my VE SSV, 2 weeks old.

[boyley]

It's a step up from the A4, but its has a whine when moving off in 1st gear. Once mobile the whine goes.

[Bigdaddy4567]

Not sure how good the VE 6 speed auto is anymore, my Calais V V8 60th Anniversary is off the road after 1,700klm with a gearbox failure (no reverse gear):bawl:

[Wonky]

Ouch!! That's gotta be a pain but it's what warranty is for. :) All cars, even the most expensive, have failures.

[payaya]

I have a car, not GM or Ford has a tip feature and it seems to shift as soon as you request it. I shift at 8000rpm and it changes gear before hitting limiter at 8500rpm.

I cant see these boxes taking 2000rpm for it to shift into the next gear? Seems very weird.

Also you cant keep comparing the Holden A6 to the Ford A6. Its been known for a long time now the ZF 6 speed is the best 6 speed out there, thats why all expensive luxury euros use it.

The Holden box is still good, but not all boxes are the same!

[HOLDAN]

Nup yur dead wrong mate. I stand by my previous post!! Nothin to do with salesmen - I don't have to live with them:lmao:

I agree - there was no point buying a car my wife couldn't drive

[arboo]

My auto SSV is 2 month's old. Not sure if I just got a bad one but seriously it is the worst auto I have ever experienced. Painfully slow to decide which gear it wants, always find yourself stuck for an eternity in the wrong gear when you put your foot down.
The manual tiptronic is an absolute joke - Not even worth bothering with.
It is seriously a major downer on what was to be my dream car. :bawl::bawl:

[VYII_R8]

I'm gonna try this on the way home tonight! My A6 seems hesitant in the first and second gears if I just rest my foot lightly on the pedal but with a little more pedal it definitely responds more favourably.
I'm still getting to know my VE SSV, 2 weeks old.

He was actually talking about the ZF.. not the GM 6spd auto...

The GM auto doesn't work on a points system like the ZF.

[Alex(AUS)]

My auto SSV is 2 month's old. Not sure if I just got a bad one but seriously it is the worst auto I have ever experienced. Painfully slow to decide which gear it wants, always find yourself stuck for an eternity in the wrong gear when you put your foot down.
The manual tiptronic is an absolute joke - Not even worth bothering with.
It is seriously a major downer on what was to be my dream car. :bawl::bawl:

This sounds real strange ... mine will shift at 6500 if I manually shift at 6200ish. There must be something very wrong unless the Holdens are tuned to do that ... get it checked and drive another one.

Alex

[boyley]

My auto SSV is 2 month's old. Not sure if I just got a bad one but seriously it is the worst auto I have ever experienced. Painfully slow to decide which gear it wants, always find yourself stuck for an eternity in the wrong gear when you put your foot down.
The manual tiptronic is an absolute joke - Not even worth bothering with.
It is seriously a major downer on what was to be my dream car. :bawl::bawl:

sound like you need some oztrack majic

[Wonky]

sound like you need some oztrack majic

Me too!! I'm keenly waiting for the A6 tweak package to be released! :dancenana: Just hope it's not too long.......

[macca_779]

Me too!! I'm keenly waiting for the A6 tweak package to be released! :dancenana: Just hope it's not too long.......

Talk to Jez Wonky. He's made some strong improvements to the A6 with the development work he's done on the SSV he has access to at home.